A boycott is in order folks.

 Dear Poops,

Just to answer your question about what do they do with Bay/Nady etc??  IF they were a contender, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO BUY A DAMN TICKET!!!!   Bobbo makes MORE money with a filled stadium (and don't give me the crap about not filling Three Rivers in the playoffs back in the "80s.  It's a different city entirely now!!!  No steel, technology is the driver here) and you pay players accordingly.  JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER TEAM IN BASEBALL!!!  Now, stop being gullable!!!  What do you think is going to happen when this team of misfits takes the field next year, loses--as they inevitably will--and no one goes to the games because they are out of it in May again???????????  You guessed it--keep going and sell more bobbleheads tofools like you and have more pierrogie races.  They had the 3rd lowest attendance in baseball!!!  They stink, that's why!!!  Bobbo says he won't spend more 'til people start showing up!!  How stupid can you be following logic like that??  How 'bout, you put a winner on the field and watch the crowd fill the stadium??  Hmmmmm.  Nah, that makes too much sense.  Now, start using Your head and not your ***!!!!

 Let us first establish a timeline before you dumb me into submission.........

Can we atleast agree that McClatchy was the CEO and in charge of business operations during a majoritiy of this losing streak?

Ok - so to get our timelines straight as a point of referrence when is it that you are stating that your buddy "Bobbo" took controlling interest of the team and started becoming involved in the baseball portion of the operation?

POPS

 Dear Pops,

OK, forgive my earlier rantings, but it seems to me that you are following the blind here.   Let's retreat.  To answer your question, McClatchy was a figurehead for the Pirates for years and years--this is well known.  At the beginning, McClatchey got his initial investment from his family--abut $5 million give or take.  His initial investment was VERY minimal in the purchase.  He did get the rest of the investors to put up the true cash, Bobbo included.  Bobbo has ALWAYS been the "brains" behind the Pirates as I believe he was the largest investor of the group.  He slowly bought everyone else out, but always quietly in the background.  When, after 15 years of losing, it seemed like a great marketing idea to "sell" to the public the idea that management was "being shifted" so as to make them competitive, Bobbo lets go of McClatchey (he gets his money after fleecing the fans of the Burg and probably quadrouples his cash) and announces to the fans of the Pirates "New Management Will Drive to Success".  Bull, as we now know.  Just another ploy to sell to the fans of Pittsburgh.  By the way, now that we are into this "new face of Management--Bobbo", where the hell is he??  They stink again, after he says the record will count this year (another lie, along with "the core of the team will stay") moving forward as a management group.  Well, I'm assuming Neal & Co will be gone after this year according to THESE results!!!  But wait, Bobbo & Co now sells you the idea that "it's OK because we have all young players through trades and that's why we're not winning".  Bull.  THEY made those decisions leading to horrible results.  Bobbo, of course, lets them off the hook.  Why?  BECAUSE NEAL & CO ARE CHEAP AS FAR AS MANAGING A PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL ORGANIZATION!!!!  That was another great shot at marketing the Pirates "new and improved management" concept going into this season.  Hey, don't pay major league salaries when you can simply change management--cheaper than the old management as this whole group is in for the first time as GM etc--AND YOU SAVE MONEY IN THE PROCESS!!  Great ploy Bobbo!!!  I ain't buyin', but man thats some good marketing idea!!!  How did it work out???  Not too good as expected--management doesn't play the game--the players you put on the field do!!!  They stink again!!  This off season watch Ol' Bobbo give you another marketing ploy, like we'll spend a few bucks on some free agents and try to make this team at least over .500!!!  And what a great time to do it--the economy sucks and we'll get a few has-beens on the cheap and sell that to the fans ---  What a great marketing move!!!!  I ain't buyin' that either!!!  AND, neither should you!!! The only way to compete in baseball is to put players on the field who "CAN PLAY!!!!"  If you can't do that, sell the team to someone who can and will.  In the meantime Pops, don't be a sucker for this nonsense.  If Bobbo sold he would more than quadrouple his input!!!  A fine reward for keeping the Pirates in the City of Pittsburgh.  FINE.  Now, move on Bobbo and let someone who wants to build a franchise give it a try!!!  Ala the Rooneys--loved in this city.  They get it, build a great franchise in a great sports city, win, and the payoff will be TREMENDOUS when you sell the franchise!!!  BUT, it does requires some balls to "pony up" for a winner to see if the fans will support it!!  Bobbo is an accountant who will not do this.  He counts beans DAILY not at the end of the franchise era.  Personally, I'm not sure he could afford it??  AND, why do it when he sucks 25 million a year out of the fans of Pittsburgh regardless??  Oh, and by the way, fans like you and I would fill that stadium in droves we're so hungry for a winner in baseball!!  17 YEARS!!!!  And counting with Ol' Bobbo.

So, there you have it Pops.  The truth and facts about the Pirates.  And the only way to get Bobbo out??  BOYCOTT!!!  He understands that if people don't show:  1.)  It's embarassing as hell  2.)  He makes less money daily  3.)  How could you walk the streets of Pittsburgh and show your face?  4.)  Oh, he'll sell  5.)  And don't think he'll drop the salaries lower than they already are.  Even he has to be a little embarassed.  Geez, he's got a minor league team on the field now!!  Doesn't get any cheaper than that!!!  With a management group that's the cheapest in baseball!!!

just move the damn team already & be done with it....no one cares about baseball in this town anyway.....

 Pops,

Just one last comment.  Bobbo was always in charge in the background.  17 YEARS worth my friend.  And don't believe otherwise.  The newspaper business is awful right now.  Hmmmm  Interesting how the Pirates salary output has gone down??  Hmmmmmmm  Can they be related??  You bet your sweet booty they are my friend!!!

Oh, and have you read the paper lately??  Joe Kerrigan, the fabulous new pitching coach, may not return!!!  Hmmmm  Wonder why???  Could it be he sees the writing on the wall just like everybody else??  Like THEY WON'T PAY, BUT JUST KEEP BRINGING NEW PLAYERS CONSTANTLY TO ME!!!!!  And now Perry Hill doesn't think he'll return.   Hmmmmmm  Wonder why??  HOW 'BOUT, THEY JUST KEEP THE MERRY-GO-ROUND TURNING BRINGING ME NEW KIDS TO BREAK IN ALL THE DAMN TIME!!!! 

Both know that sooner or later that will catch up to them in pro baseball and they will be looked at as "not very good", they couldn't make the Pirates a winner.  Not a label any coach wants.  OR,  to be associated with "a loser" too long either.

"just move the damn team already & be done with it....no one cares about baseball in this town anyway....."

Hey, that you dog???  Posting on a BASEBALL SITE AGAIN!!!!  Real truth:  YOU don't care about baseball, and most on this BASEBALL SITE don't care about what YOU think about baseball!!!!!!!!!  Now go away and post on the Stiller and Penguin sites, you know, the ones that are currently winning and you seem to love.  Now there's an anomaly--someone lovin' a winner!!! 

no, I am posting on at POST GAZETTE SITE as an angry taxpayer about a so-called team that is continuing to steal my tax dollars.  Since no one is willing to launch an investigation into government waste, move the damn team & be done with it....

 LJ,

You say boycott - well I have only gone to two games in the last three years (opening day 3 yrs ago and one game last year - both kids related), after going to roughly 15-30 games a year depending on schedule/events.  So yes I stopped financially supporting whichever onwership group you believe was in place 3 years ago.

In regards to the ownership interest I guess that could be a big part of our disagreement.  I could be totally off base on this, but I do NOT believe that Nutting was pulling the strings behind the scenes for the entire duration (or even most of the time) that McClatchy was in town.  If Bob has been the sole person pulling the strings for even more than 3 years, then I can see it all being about business and whatever scheme they can come up with to pull the wool over our eyes and keep making absurd profits while putting a poor team on the field.  I have always said it was a business, and as long as sponsors kept helping him with promotions then people would keep coming to the stadium and he would continue to make a profit.  From a purely business standpoint can you blame him.

One question though.  If it has been all about profit for the last 17 years with Bob pulling the strings explain to me the trade for Matt Morris and his 10 million.  What would make such a greedy business man do such a thing that would cost him 10 million dollars.  All the salary dump theorists never seem to remember this trade.  If he was in charge for 10+ years before the Morris trade why would he have given his blessing to the trade.  Why shell out 10 mill if all you were intent on doing was making a profit?

Explain to me that riddle and we may start getting somewhere......

POPS

 edog

Yes they stole our money when they built the stadium, but how would moving the team now help the city/county. 

Loss of employment

Loss of revenue to all the business surrounding the stadium

Loss of any revenue generated during the 81 home games

spiteful thinking sometimes gets in the way of practicle thoughts

POPS

 Can I get back in here.  I was away for the weekend, but was still watching.

And I see San Diego laid a few more losses on us. That's not surprising. What is surprising to me is that Saturday there were 20,000 in attendance, and on Sunday 24,000!

44,000 paying customers to watch this AAA team of prospects! And "R Stillers" were playing on TV Sunday.  I don't get it.  92 losses en route to 100

A boycott is in order folks. 

Why does Neal Huntington have a job?

Why does Frank Coonelly have a job?

Bob Nutting, please sell the team! 

"no, I am posting on at POST GAZETTE SITE as an angry taxpayer about a so-called team that is continuing to steal my tax dollars.  Since no one is willing to launch an investigation into government waste, move the damn team & be done with it...."

Hey, there's Ol' Dog again talking about A BASEBALL TEAM!!!  Why don't you come here and talk about shopping or downtown storefronts or............................   Oh, OK, I get it, YOU KNOW YOU'RE ON A BASEBALL SITE DISCUSSING BASEBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go away, some of us love baseball and not just winners.  I know you're going to sneak into the front of the parade IF the Pirates win the WS someday.  You sneaky dog you!!  Ya love a winner don't ya??  I know you wouldn't be complaining if the Pirates were in the playoffs headed for a WS!!!  Stop.

 Dear Pops,

I continue to answer your questions yet you don't answer any of mine????  You read my post with all the curiosities in it and you didn't answer any of those questions. 

You understanding of  ownership is incomplete.  Bobbo has ALWAYS been the "talking head" behind the scenes.  McClatchey assumed his role because he got the investors together to buy the Pirate organization years ago.  He invested somewhere between 1 and 5 million.  The rest was from other investors, Bobbo was the majority interest.  As the majority interest you get a HUGE say in what does and doesn't happen with an organization.  Bobbo slowly and quietly bought all other interest out over the years.  The other investors weren't interested in the Pirates, only the money they could acquire--PERIOD.   They got bought out at a nice profit---and voila, BOBBO IS THE MAN!!!  Recently, McClatchey was more of a burden than an asset and another opportunity to fleece the fans (after 15 years of losing couldn't be explained away) by exclaiming "Bobbo takes over to lead the team forward to wins".  Great marketing effort, but these are not baseball guys, they are accountants.  Yes, it's true that not a lot of baseball men own baseball teams, but smart owners HIRE GREAT BASEBALL MANAGEMENT AND TALENT EVALUATORS to run the show for them.  That costs up-front money--Bobbo will not do that--too expensive when you have a damn annuity paying you $26 million annually named the Pittsburgh Pirates.

To answer yours AGAIN:  (This was in an earlier post if you read it)  Matt Morris was the last-ditch effort of a dying Dave Littlefield era.  Bobbo gave DL the money to do with what HE wished to salvage the team.  Bobbo had already made his money by dumping salary that year and the team had the money left over.  Bobbo also thought the team could be salvaged with some starting pitching and gave the go ahead--which should tell you something about the history of player evaluation for the Pirates from the front office--what a disaster!!!  Oh, and at that time the fans of the Pirates were SCREAMING that Bobbo was in it for the money and were pointing fingers at the fact that he dumped all this salary to line his pockets once again.  This move was to try to save Littlefield's job and save face for Bobbo.  Nothing more.  Hey, even Bobbo knows you can't just keep stealing money from fans without giving a little appeasement back to demonstrate some good faith--I never claimed Bobbo was stupid.   Fact:  Bobbo lines his pockets with approximately $26 million dollars annually--in Forbes Magazine article about a year ago.  Bobbo takes the cash, pays down the debt for the team, claims it is going back into the team with that scam, and there you have it--scam the fans again.  There you go. AND, one question to you:  Bobbo has been running this team for 17 years now and you bring up ONE TRADE to explain his greed away???   Name me 75-100 salaries of major league level (this is a minimal number for 17 YEARS!!) that Bobbo & Co have paid out & that have truly produced!!!  OK, OK, name me 20??  OK, name me 10??  OK, Oh hell, forget it.  I think you get the idea--AIN'T HAPPENIN'.

Oh, by the way, now that they are on a record losing streak--AGAIN--how ya' feelin' about next years team and management's "progress" toward that end??  There's another question for ya??  They could add 3 major leaguers to this bumbling group of minor leaguers and still not compete!!  They are horrible and next year won't produce much more--unless Bobbo sells.

Now all your questions are answered with facts.  How 'bout you answer some from my posts now???  Truth--ya' can't because everything I stated was pretty much fact refuting any arguements you had.  Hey, at least you're not PAYING to go to games!!!  Starting lineup etc???

So how 'bout you stop asking questions to get Bobbo off the hook and answering mine??  I have a ton of 'em!!!  In fact, 17 years worth!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Pops,

Two other quesions:  If this team has such a bright future and is so exciting;  Why is Perry Hill EVEN THINKING abut leaving??  Why, since this group of "large pitchers" looks so good for the future is Joe Kerrigan EVEN THINKING about leaving??  No one in their right mind leaves a group of talent that will shoot you right to stardom when it works out!!!  So, riddle me those............

(Again, Bobbo isn't stupid now.  It won't surprise me if he raises their salary enough to keep them 'cause the organization has made such a loud noise about how good each was in the papers and it will be a HUGE embarassment if either or both leave!!!  Maybe both are just great negotiators and realize an opportunity when they see it??  Hey, so Bobbo gives them each an extra hundred grand, so what, chump change compared to what he socks away each year!!  So don't be surprised if they stay.  OR, maybe each has too much pride to stay with an organization so lousy that it's become an embarassment, which will leave Bobbo & Co looking Sooooooo foolish!!)

 LJ, you are too cool.  You ask very good questions.

I've got a question,  and I've got the answer too.  A few years ago when Jim Leyland decided he was going to go back into managing, he has been quoted as saying he WANTED to come back to manage the Pirates.

So the question, why did he end up going to Detroit? 

Answer, ....Pirates ownership could not commit to putting a winner on the field....as in the last 17 year shameful history of our beloved Pirates and being carried on to this day.

That's why Detroit immediately went to the world series, and may get there again this year.

edog, e-gads!  , take LJ's advice, just go away 

 I never said the team was exciting - in fact they are fairly mediocre (at best) at home and horrible on the road.  They are actually hard to watch at some points.

As far as a bright future - The minors are as well stocked as they have been in a long time.  It does not mean that any of them will be superstars, but aside from McCutchen when was the last time we had a player in the minors pushing a player on the Pirates.  I agree that Neal acauired a great quantity of players (better than what was already in the minors), and only time will tell if he got any real quality in all of this years deals.

As far as the coaches, are you saying he is only willing to pay them as a PR stunt and not because they are actually quality baseball people.  Using your line of reasoning I thought you would say that he would only pay them because it would improve the players trade value when it came time to dump their salaries.

So if Bob only does things for PR why the salary dumps - I don't think it works both ways.....Oh wait, and he paid $10 mil to Morris as a PR move - that sounds like a pretty steep price for a little PR.  In fact that is uttelry stupid if it was made for PR.  So Bob is so smart he can keep pulling the wool over our eyes but dumb enough to dump $10 mil to further his cause for a washed up pitcher?  Something just is not computing again???

MJ - I am an avid baseball fan, and want nothing more than to see the Pirates win.  I think up until Nutting, Coonelly, and Huntington came into their positions two years ago everything about this franchise was a farse.  You have to admit the draft, international signings, and lower levels of the organization have all improved.  I know this has done nothing for the big league club and that is all we see - 17 years of losing.  Maybe your ideas of bringing in 3 stud pitchers might have pushed us into the playoffs for a year or so, but we had too many free agents coming up, and no one to replace them in the minors.  Maybe we could have made the playoffs, but in 3-4 years we probably would have been worse off then we we started adding the free agents (and don't tell me they would have just kept adding free agents cause it just does not work that way in PGH).....I want them to win more than you, but unless you are a big market team you can not just buy a playoff team, and look at all the big market teams and how much home grown talent they have in their line-ups compared to our home grown talent.  You need to start from the bottom and work up.  Without a solid foundation any structure is going to fall/fail.  I am not buying into Nutting, but I am agreeing that for once the Pirates had an actual plan and they followed through with it. It may not have been executed to the greatest degree, but it was the right plan and let us all hope the players we received pan out.  You keep trying to throw out Bob, have someone throw money at the problem, and think that will be a cure all.  A band aid is only that - a temporaty cover.  It does not solve the problem long term.  I buy into the plan of building a strong foundation and working to the top - not into throwing money around, making us top heavy, and then watching it all fall apart.  You have your thoughts, I have mine, we will never agree, but if I were to start looking for a new job I would want to work for a company with a strong infrastructure that was looking long term - not just spending $10 mil on PR.

POPS