Morning links: Manage expectations

DK--sorry for the interruption to your vacation, but it's good to see/read your coverage.  There was a lot of interest in your interview with double-M.  Is there any way to get a podcast or recording that you are aware of?

I was getting used to the idea of having Laroche start off the year at 2B, platoon Walker and Vasquez at third until June, and then let Alvarez come up and do his thing. This move is a little interesting, because it could point to the Pirates not being sold on Laroche being able to move to 2B, or maybe they're just hoping to flip Iwamura at the deadline next season. Either way, if this move stalls the arrival of Alvarez, I think that would be a mistake. We need a hitter in that lineup who can bat behind Jones and give him some protection.

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I like what we got, don't like what we had to give up for him, considering we could easily lose this player after 1 yr, & chavez was under control til 2014. Thats my biggest beef, but managing my expectations, so instead of losing 100+ we might only lose 95 AGAIN...couldn't NH have made them take DOUMIT ....

This move seems to make sense in respect to the defensive liability the Pirates had at second, and it alos strengthens the top of the order. Without Iwamura, we would be looking at Laroche or Cedeno hitting second, and I don't think that would be favorable. Giving up Chavez is surprising, even if it is hard to predict bullpen effectiveness. A young pitcher with a friendly contract and who also throws hard, that could come back to bite the Pirates. I do think that we need to remember Evan Meek was putting together a stellar season before getting hurt, and Hanrahan was lights out soon after his arrival from the Nationals. Who knows, we may see Mike Gonzalez return to Pittsburgh to be the lefty we so desperately need.

I just realized that Mike Gonzalez projects as a Type-A FA, so we definitely will not see him coming back to Pittsburgh if that is the case.

Thanks, Dejan, for taking a temporary break in your well earned vacation. Also for being the voice of reason in this wilderness after the trade.

The most important thing for the Pirates to do is replace their below average MLB players with at least average players. That is the easiest way to improve the team.

Iwamura fits that bill exactly, replacing Delwyn Young's .1 WAR with a possible 2-3 WAR.

Cedeno is another of those below average players and if Wilson were to return to Pittsburgh, that would be a great thing, IMO.

With the arrival of Tabata in June, that would fix all the below average holes that don't have a realistic chance of improving to above average position players.

Ankiel or someone similar would give the Pirates a great fill in until Tabata arrives, and also a great option for competition. I'd love to see Tabata play his way into the spot.

That's another benefit to having an Iwamura. Andy LaRoche responded very well to the prospect of having to fight for time with Walker. He knows Pedro is coming and he's got to outplay Iwamura if he's going to stick somewhere.

 This trade flies in the face of N.H.'s so called plan. If you are going to trade a guy like Chavez please do it for someone younger and with more than a year left. First Belasario and now Chavez? I thought we liked power arms, especially young ones. Trade young guys if you need a piece and are near contention. We are nowhere near contention and need so much more than him that this is mind boggling. Speechless to say the least.    

Dejan - Thanks for coming back for a bit.  We all appreciate it, even if we don't necessarily like the content.

I'm still baffled.  This makes no sense.  Was anyone else offering anything to the Rays?  It's very clear he wasn't coming back, so they are getting Chavez next year for less than they would have paid to buy out Iwamura.  Oh yeah, and after next year they'll have Chavez for 4 more.  The Pirates, nothing.

I like that Iwamura was acquired.  I like what he could be for the club.  The way they got him...are you kidding me?!

JimBibbySweat - seeing your realization of the players involved (or lack thereof) made my night, so thanks for that.  As they say, misery loves company.

"Hopefully, we can go to the playoffs next season." - Iwamura

"Hopefully, Halle Berry will ask me to give her a back rub." - George

This trade appears to go against the GM's grand plan.

Perhaps he believes that there is simply no valid internal options that can adequately get the job done in 2010, so he compromised.

It definitely appears to have worked out great for the Rays though.

I worked 25 years for the CIA as a lip reader of Japanese.

Travelled all over. Was there when George Bush Snr puked at the State dinner - what an embarassment.

I saw that Iwamura interview using the interpreter.

Here's what he REALLY said:

"For the love of all that is holy, please, someone, get me out of here. One little remark about Pearl Harbor, and this is the punishment. Where is my samurai sword? I must consider hari-kari. It is the only honorable alternative."

The reaction of some people to this trade is truly unbelievable. Iwamura is literally worth 5 or 6 Jesse Chavezes.

How is it some of the same people who complained that Huntington low balled Sanchez, now don't understand why Iwamura is worth much more than Jesse Chavez?

Iwamura = Sanchez

Alderson > Chavez

Huntington got a 2B who's just as good as Sanchez - and is paying him less than Sanchez turned down. He gave up middle reliever in Chavez, who had a decent 4.01 ERA, but was below average in every stat that truly matters in the long run, and gained a top pitching prospect in Alderson, who is a possible top of the rotation starter.

This doesn't go against the plan - the plan is to get better while maximizing the value of the money the Pirates have to spend.

Essentially this trade proves that Huntington really was serious about the offer to Freddy Sanchez. He would have signed him for that amount.

Huntington set the price he thought he could get a 2B like Freddy. Freddy rejected that, and sure enough Huntington found a 2B at the price he wanted.

Great job.

BTW, the Dodgers and Cubs were also interested in Aki, but the Rays apparently liked Chavez better than what they were offering.

We still need a right fielder and especially shortstop, but I like the general idea of starting to build up the major league roster with quality MLB-caliber players.  

Chavez was decent, but a reliever's performance fluctuates.If they aren't closer types (Hanrahan, maybe Capps and Meek) or lefties, they simply aren't worth very much.

I know, I know.  Not a power position.  Not a power spot in the order.  But...

Ah, the uncanny 1-homer acquisitions are back.

> Iwamura is coming off a season in which he finished with a .290 average, one home run, 16 doubles, two triples and nine steals in 10 attempts over 69 games.

Mark, I agree 100%.  For all the times on this Blog we've heard, 'Well we don't do anything that helps the major league roster", "Who cares about the minors?"....blah, blah, blah.

Guess what?  We made a move to help the Major League team and all I'm reading is "What the heck?", "Chavez is God", blah, blah, blah.

Chavez is a younger version of Yates....Yates! for crying out loud.  

Chavez is marginal, at best.  But on a 100-loss team, seemed ok.  Put him on any other team and let's see how good he looks.  Tampa's GM mentioned that its good that he has options....which doesn't sound like its a shoe-in he'll even make the 25-man this season.  

I'll cringe every time I hear someone on this Blog mention that we never improve the ML product.....cause we just did for crying out loud.

And why do these same people care if it's for one year?  All they ever gripe about is the ML team.  Again, it just got better.  Most of you have never cared about the long-term anyway, at least according to your comments.

Flip-flop posters, I believe, is the term Maz used yesterday.  I totally get that now.

You have to give something up to get something in return. That's usually how it works with trades in professional sports. Not every deal is going to be a rob em' blind like the trade with the Yankees.

Yes, Chavez at times looked like a good young power reliever but also was inconsistent at times as well. Iwamura upgrades the second base position offensively with OBP and much more defensively. Even if he does only stay for 1 year, the trade is still worth it IMO.

Of course, more needs to be done this offseason and that remains to be seen.

Morning Links Part 2

Bob Ford: Short rest for pitchers was once routine in Series

www.philly.com/.../20091104_Bob_Ford__Short_rest_for_pitchers_was_once_routine_in_Series.html

World Series is fun for big markets, just a show for others

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../small.market

My 10 most memorable postseason moments (and one that I missed)

seattletimes.nwsource.com/.../2010194338_my_10_most_memorable_postseaso.html

THE OFFICIALLY UNOFFICIAL PBC BLOGS AND MLB LINKS: Part 1

Why Gavs--WHYGAVS Top Hitting Prospects, November 2009

whygavs.com/.../whygavs-top-hitting-prospects-november-2009.html

Why gavs-Akinori Iwamura is coming to the Pirates

whygavs.com/.../akinori-iwamura-is-coming-to-the-pirates.html

Why Gavs-More on Akinori Iwamura

whygavs.com/.../more-on-akinori-iwamura.html

Wilbur Miller's Pirate Player Profiles

users.rcn.com/.../pirateprofiles.htm

Sandlot Swashbucklers-AFL Rising Stars

mvn.com/.../afl-rising-stars.html

Pittsburgh Lumber Company--Pirates trade Jesse Chavez to Rays for Akinori Iwamura

mvn.com/.../pirates-trade-jesse-chavez-to-rays-for-akinori-iwamura.html

Pittsburgh Lumber Company-Top 10 Worst Happenings of the Pirates Futility Streak

mvn.com/.../top-10-worst-happenings-of-the-pirates-futility-streak.html

Raise the Jolly Roger-Are five years of Jesse Chavez worth one year of Akinori Iwamura?

raisethejollyroger.com/.../are-five-years-of-jesse-chavez-worth-one-year-of-akinori-iwamura

Mondesi's House--PIRATES TRADE FOR IWAMURA

mondesishouse.blogspot.com/.../pirates-trade-for-iwamura.html

Hyzdu Headquarters-The Dealer Strikes Again

hyzduhq.blogspot.com/.../dealer-strikes-again.html

THE OFFICIALLY UNOFFICIAL PBC BLOGS AND MLB LINKS:  Part 2

The Green Weenie-Shelby Ford

oldbucs.blogspot.com/.../shelby-ford.html

The Green Weenie-AndYour Newest Bucco

oldbucs.blogspot.com/.../and-your-newest-bucco.html

PBC Home Page-Bucs acquire Rays' Iwamura for Chavez

pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

Rumbunter-Iwamura Was a Trade The Pirates Needed

rumbunter.com/.../iwamura-was-a-trade-that-was-needed

MLB Transactions

www.cbssports.com/.../transactions

Bucco fans-Does Iwamura make sense for the Pirates?

www.buccofans.com/.../does-iwamura-make-sense-for-pirates.html

Bucco fans-Pittsburgh Pirates Top 50 Prospects: 23 - Daniel Moskos

www.buccofans.com/.../pittsburgh-pirates-top-50-prospects-23.html

Bucco Fans Wiki--Links to much data

buccofans.wikispaces.com

Fan Huddle--Akinori Iwamura: Your newest Pittsburgh Pirate

fanhuddle.com/.../akinori-iwamura-your-newest-pittsburgh-pirate

North Side Notch--Pirates trade Jesse Chavez to Rays for Akinori Iwamura

www.northsidenotch.com/.../pirates-trade-jesse-chavez-to-rays-for.html

Pirate Winter League Stats

mlb.mlb.com/.../org.jsp

Vote for This Year in baseball Awards

mlb.mlb.com/.../index.jsp

Ok, prudent trade. And Aki plays 3b too. So now the club has two solid players who have the ability or potential to play both 2nd and 3rd (plus Vasquez, Young, and Walker on the bench).

Injuries happen- gotta have options. Alvarez doesn't have to be rushed if he's not ready. Laroche doesn't have to take the pop quiz if he hasn't had enough time to study... And Aki or Laroche could be somewhat valuable come July if they have decent stats by then.

i see the secret bat-phone to Jack Wilson is already warmed up.

I hope they don't bring him back.  I think Cedano is fine there.

There is nothing not to like about this trade IMO.  Iwamura is an above average major league 2b you will fit very nicely in the no. 2 spot.  He also could move up to the leadoff role if Cutch moves down into one of the power spots in the lineup....something i think is only a matter of time.  

Yes we gave up Chavez, a hard throwing righty.  But keep in mind that this is the type of pitche that NH has accumulated in bunches over the last couple of year.  I think Meek and Hanrahan will do just fine.  Frankly, both have more upside than Chavez who, IMO, had only one pitch, albeit a good one.  

If the key to a good defense is your strength up the middle than the Pirates should remain one of the best teams in baseball in this category.  

Oh, and GREAT to have you back Dejan if even for a day.  Now go back to enjoying your WELL DESERVED vacation.  

So we end up with yet another one-year rental. I think the sound you heard just before the trade was NH hiting the panic button.

No, I don't think Chavez was going to be the next Dave Giusti. I did think that we had in him a player that fir the "plan" and that he had the potential to be an effective setup man for Hanrahan should the Happy Day occur when Capps goes on to another team.

I would have rather stuck with the plan seeing as how the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater already than to now shift gears and trade a player with the coveted "years of control" monniker for a slightly less expensive Freddy Sanchez - at least until July.

Does this address a need? Yes. Is the move consistent with the operating model advocated by NH? No.

Weird.

Jose

1

Any chance that part of the motivation for the trade was to gain press coverage in Japan (which might subsequently help them sign Asian prospects)?

DK--I think the interest was perhaps because you'd be commenting rather than reporting.  It was a good interview for both you and MM BTW.

@Dejan: > More than any aspect of the Iwamura trade, as the main story linked below shows, I was struck by the years-of-control aspect. It flies so thoroughly in the face of what this management team had done previously that, as Neal Huntington would confirm in our interview, it really did signify sort of a turning point in terms of the approach to trading.

---

Dejan - do you know why Neal change his approach to trading?  if it's because he thinks the talent he has in majors, to be supplemented with a few nearly ready pipeline guys, is just a player or two away from serious competitiveness, great.  But if this was a Littlefield flip flop get people off my back, not great.  Did you get a sense?

---

and: "I was struck by the years-of-control aspect"

Yeah, you bet.  That nails it.  To put it in reverse, i LOVE this trade if Iwwy Pop has more years on his contract, even ONE more year...decent starting 2B for a not-closer reliever.  The ONLY thing that gave me pause: one year.  

My view seems to be that this is just one trade and it doesn't signal that they are ditching their "Plan".    They saw a need on the team that couldn't be filled with a player that fits exactly into "The Plan".   They realized they needed to shore up the infield defense and they realized DYoung wasn't going to be able to handle the position for an entire year.

TC - as my Q to Dejan implies...I'm asking whether this trade represents a turning point reflecting "it's time, we're ready" or whether it reflects a ditch.  i really dont know how to interpret it.  i like the player.  i'm just surprised.

i'm not necessarily expecting Dejan to be able to answer because unless Neal addressed it directly, my Q may require some mind-reading and Dejan may rather have Neal's words stand alone and speak for themselves.  

Morning Mates, good tidings

A couple of thoughts, an article in ESPN says one reason for this move might have been to appease the PBC dwindling fan base.  Hey, I'm a dwindling fan base.

Iwwy is not equivalent to Freddy, at least with the stick, Iwwy drove in 104 runs in three years.

I thought NH's comment about now having a major leaguer to take 600 at bats was interesting, wonder how that floats with say DY??

Any idea when we should expect NH to get an extension?  I would think FC would get one first, and hopefully, JR never...

Why is everyone already coming to the conclusion that this will be a one-year rental?  Both sides have said they are interested in the long term.  Even if you believe that is just talk, there is nothing factual that says that it is.  Why don't we wait and see.  

Thunder

I agree--one trade does not equal ditching the plan.  This is trade to fill a need and, as others have said,  Iwamura  could end up being a mid-season trade chip.  The trade was one for one,  not trading 3 prospects for a single player.

Biz - if this was in fact an appeasement move, then shame on him.  That's one of MANY things that got Littlefield in trouble.

DY?  IMO he belongs on the bench.  Not off the team, not in minors, not selling life insurance, but on the bench.  Why?  He hits fairly well coming in cold off the bench, and not many can do that.  He also plays multiple positions.  He truly makes a bench better.

WWWYP - does that mean you're giving the benefit of the doubt?

@ Thunder: Valid opbservation. My counter to that is that DY failing means you look within. They could move Andy (and already had him working at 2B), and bring up Walker as a potential place-holder for PA.

That did not happen. That means that there must be "issues" that caused the change in direction (however temproary that may be):

1) Things weren't going well with Andy.

2) They have no real use for Walker.

In any event, echoing Drew,  I would be much happier with this whole deal if Aki had more than 1 year before becoming eligible for free agency.

Jose

2

DK -

Agreed with Arriba -

Your MM interview was great.  Very informative and candid.  Madden asked great questions and you answered them.  I wish the segment could have lasted through another break.

George - you are on a roll today...funny stuff

Not sure what to say about the trade.  Yes, we picked up a MLB player, but it seems to go against NH's wonderful plan being boasted on here.  He traded away "young talent...ala McCutchen)

head scratcher.

I think thundercrack has it right with the trade idea : not a change in direction, just amove to make the tea better.

WWWYP,  also has it right :  complleyely off base to put it in granite that this is a one year deal.

Neal said it, lets ge to know each other, those looking for a reason to bash the FO would be all over them if they went out and had exttended him right off the bat.

Jose - in the No More Make-Do philosophy that i've adopted, Andy only gets moved to 2 if he learns it in winter ball and/or ST.  NO MORE EXPERIMENTS at the major league level.  I'm not opposed to it...just saying no more non-major baseball at the major league level.  To be fair, Iwwy Pop could give the time and luxury to train Andy (or Neil) to be a 2b.

As someone who is not an optimist nor a pessimist, i've settled on this position re the trade:  I like the player, and willing to give up a promising reliever for a starting 2B.  i DON'T like that he only has 1 year under control.  If they extend him for a year, my concerns completely disappear.

Iwamura hasn't even tried on his Pirate jersey and we're all so worried he won't stay past one year :-)

Here are a couple of reasons he may only be here for one year:

-he's 30 years old and coming off a serious injury.  We don't know yet if he'll return to his former level of play.  ( i know they scouted him a few times last season)

- He may rebound well and decide that he wants to test free agency and pick his team & money.

For one year this could be very good for the Pirates.  But they should also be prepared to have someone else be the second baseman in 2011.

JJ - to be fair, those who are questioning this trade are not the negative nellies.  There are some who are saying 'stay with plan, this isnt consistent with it.'  That's not my concern, but i am curious if it truly indicates a turning point in execution of the plan.

i like the deal from the talent for talent aspect.  i've already voiced my concern re years of control...but that is potentially "fixable"

If nothing else, it clearly was the opposite of a dump, it wasnt to acquire a 39 yr old washup but rather a legit major leaguer, and it fills a hole.

all in all....very very interesting.

Doesn't ESPN and Buster Olney realize that it will take much, much more than trading for Iwamura to appease this fan base?!

Drew, I am on board with your No Make-Do philosophy.

But I also don't think the Pirates should try to extend Iwamura's contract until they see him play more.  If they extend him and he turns out to not be so great (hello Pat Meares), then they have more Do-Do on their hands.   At least if they don't extend him and he turns out to not be good they can walk away (from what would be a bad trade) after one year and not be saddled with a bad contract.

Drew - That's one of MANY things that got Littlefield in trouble.

I would hope this trade wasn't to take any heat off, but NH is in the final year of his contract, the natives are restless, oh yeah, we are a fan base that is angered by yet another season of player departures.

Well, at least we weren't called hapless

JJ - seriously, what would you expect NH and Iwwy to say about an extension?  Burn bridges before he even plays an inning for us?  Thats just polite talk on both sides of the fence, srsly.  There is no other answer that could be spoken at this time.  Right now, we have his rights for one year and then we'll see.

I am not bashing the FO, nor is anyone else this morning imho. This is a definite exception to the previous direction. Only time will tell if it is a new trend or simply what it is currently: an exception.

I would not advocate an immediate extention if for no other reason than Aki's knee. That said, a one year stay (or less) is a definite possibility.

@ Drew: DK indicated in one of his notes either on the blog or his articles on this trade that Andy was already in one of the winter leagues working at 2B.

Jose

3

Biz wrote: NH is in the final year of his contract

---

These words inspired me to change conversational direction

from Mr Pop to a past conversation...

Many of you argued with me that 2010 is the key year for Neal.  I posted that by end of '10, a judgment should be made re: execution of plan, and either excuse or extend Neal based on improvement.  The arguments against my position: it will take 4-5 years.

Maybe.  But he has a 3-year contract.  That's his boss' way of sending a message.  Once i worked under a 2 year contract.  it was a start-up situation which is similar to a turnaround.  I knew from day 1 what a 2 year contract meant.  i had 2 years.

@Jose: "DK indicated in one of his notes either on the blog or his articles on this trade that Andy was already in one of the winter leagues working at 2B."

i missed it...and i like it.  This is a great use of winter ball.

Unfortunately it seems if any of us say something positive or negative, we get labeled here anymore.

IMHO Iwwy is an average second baseman that is not going to help us generate any runs.  The price we paid was a gamble, and as noted Tampa knows their talent.  The Tampa GM said NH has been "all over him" for a month.  So they had time to do due dilligence, as well as save a cool 700K buyout.

And as some have noted, at least we didn't give up three prospects.

So when could we expect some word on NH and removal of his last year status?  Any ideas?

Good morning inmates near and far.

Just curious  as to the timeing  of this transaction. With the winter meetings a month away, why did all parties involved need to make the move now and not wait until the meetings?

It's absolutely hilarious to read the comments on the Tampa paper boards!

It's like everyone here got accounts and started posting as Rays fans. Every comment is about how they (the Rays) gave up way too much for an unknown. How they should have just ponied up the extra money cause he was the glue that held their infield and team together.

Welcome home Jack..er...Aki!

@ bizrow: I thought you did a great analysis yesterday of what this trade netted in view of the Sanchez trade. It really has me thinking about if we are ahead of the game at all here.

@ Drew: I live to serve.

Jose

4

Some are too defensive,  I never said anyone was bashing the FO, I said there will be some who would no matter what was done to paraphrase myself.

I never did any labeling either.

I do find it funny that they make one trade a player even up and so many are questiong it beyond what it is, an even up trade. A major leaguer for a major leaguer.

@Jose "I live to serve."

Great.  Coffee, room for cream please.

@ Bizrow: Agreed regarding the label thing. It is getting where  those of us who can't predict the future can't ask a hypothetical anymore.

I am not convinced this is a great move, and for all the recent criticism of Freddy here (old, becoming injury-prone, etc) it seems we have traded for TB's version of Freddy except he is $1 million cheaper.

Is it an improvement to get essentially the same thing you traded away in July?

Jose

5

Radio - Rays couldnt wait.  Contract with Iwwy required them to either pick up option or cut lose and pay $550K by one day after world series.

Joe - i think we're all in stunned disbelief, me included, based on different type of trade.  i dont mean that in a negative light.  whether good or bad, it's a trade meant to bolster PBC and MLB level.  it's been awhile.  Your point is valid.  And to use my earlier logic re: Yates (that someone else, forgot who, posted last night).  It's just Chavez.  i LIKE him, but it's a reliever.  I'm starting to calm down.

and with that, i have to head out for a meeting.  (yes, i actually have a JOB.)

@ Drew: There was already a cup for you on the credenza. Did you miss it?

Jose

6

radio wave - I think Tampa had to exercise Iwwy's option by the end of the World Series, which might be tonight.

Drew71 - so are we saying NH dangles out there till the end of the 2010 season to determine if he gets a new contract or not?  Thats scary, could alter his master plan, or have the potential to, or even give that perception, of trying to save his job by moves.

JP - thanks for the comment, and for my two cents, I'd take Freddy over Iwwy any day.

"Is it an improvement to get essentially the same thing you traded away in July?"

Yes when you get to keep the top pitching prospect you traded away in July for a rookie rh relief pitcher.  Is their anyway that the giants would have traded Alderson for Chavez?

@ Biz: You are welcome, and fwiw, I would rather have Freddy as well. He is a known quantity and is not coming off serious knee surgery. I am not comforted by the need for a brace and "my knee is not 100%" statements.

Certainly we have a long way to go before ST, but those are cautionary comments, for sure.

Jose

6

Putting aside all the FO stuff, for or against, what the Bucs got is a legitimate #2 hitter which was a serious issue last year.  While this deal weakens an already weak bullpen, I like what it does for the lineup.  I'd still like to see Milledge in the three hole followed by Jones.  Still need protection for Jones though.  Maybe Tabata or Doumit, maybe not.  

The rotation should be OK, but look for another 90+ losses if the bullpen isn't rebuilt.  A bad bullpen can cost a team 15-20 wins... the Bucs proved that last year.

@WWYP: Alderson remains a prospect, and while I appreciate your point (getting Freddy back for Chavez, essentially) I think we should have stayed in-house to fill the 2B position and kept Chavez.

Jose

8

Chavez barely made the roster out of Spring training last year.  He had a decent year, true.  But overall, a nice trade for the Bucs.  Iwamura has World Series experience and a 6 time Gold Glover.  

We need hitting though desperately.  Hopefully Delwyn becomes our #1 go-to person off the bench.  We need his bat in the lineup often.

Nice to see some baseball action.  A couple of thoughts.  I agree that this is a departure from "The Plan".  I am an avid supporter of "The Plan" but also agree that you can't just take a 100% fanatical approach to any plan or model with no variance.

Obviously the major league team needed help to the point where this exception to the rule had to be made.  If we're going to directly help the major league team we're going to have to give up something in return.  That something will probably always make me cringe a little... because giving up something good will do that.  I like Chavez a lot... so I have a little cringe... but you gotta do what you gotta do.

It will take time to see it this trade pans out (as with all trades), but for as much grousing as we do here in the asylum about the lack of interest in helping the major league team, we should at least give this move a chance.

Jose,

While I'm not in love with this trade, I think it prevents second base from being an embarrassment and Aki comes fairly cheap.  I don't see Andy as a viable option at second as I don't think he has the quickness and the range and that would leave a void at third.

I don't like losing Chavez but I do agree with Neal about what he said regarding bullpen arms.

re: Freddy vs. Akinori

In my opinion iwamura is a better overall player.  More speed, better glove, better plate discipline.  Sanchez's career BA is 18 points higher than Aki, but his OBP is 20 points lower.  I think the run production is not as big a difference as it seems.

Per 162 games

Iwamura has averaged 95 runs and 49 rbi 7 hr.

Sanchez has averaged 79 runs and 66 rbi 8 hr.

If you add the runs and rbi and subtract the hr you can get the total number of runs produced they have averaged per 162 games.

Iwamura 137 runs

Sanchez 137 runs

Biz and Drew, thanks for the feedback "clarification" on the contract deadline.

Jose, thanks for the info that LaRoche is playing 2b in winter ball.

@ 21 & WWWYP: Good points. I am not convinced, though, that we will have the pre-injury Aki.

But as they say, we won't know until they start to play again.

Jose

9

2nd vs RHRP

According to mlb trade rumors there are 15 potential free agent 2nd basemen[really only 10 possible starters(very generous)] and about 50 potential rhrp that are not considered closers.

www.mlbtraderumors.com/.../2010-mlb-free-a.html

Good morning all,

I also like the deal and will like it even more if he extends his Pittsburgh stay.  Chavez is a nice young arm but, as was pointed out by someone, the Bucs have been stockpiling these for two years.  It was a no-brainer IMO for this club.  At the end of the day they traded something of which they have several to address a need for which they had no viable option.

One other thing that i think is being overlooked is the fact that Iwamura is a lefty hitting in the two slot and could help McCutchen steal bases .  

A couple of days ago, someone on the blog asked about World Series TV ratings:

www.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

"Is it an improvement to get essentially the same thing you traded away in July?"

Jose, if you're going to evaluate the trade that way, then you have to look at it as we gave up Chavez for Alderson.

I'll take that trade.

Biz,

Perhaps ESPN was referring to the dwindling fan base in Pittsburgh's Japanese community?  ;-)

I think this addresses that quite well.

This is the type of trade that a team who lost 99 1/2 games last year should make.  Aki improves the team.  

It gives them some options in dealing with the player.

They can extend him, tender him and hope he files for FA as a Type A, trade him in July, or just eat it all and chalk it up to a lost Jesse Chavez.

Lots of  options present themsleves here and most of them favour the Pirates.

Christmas wish list:

1. Second Basemen.......................Done

2. Corner Outfielder with some pop..............Need another trade

3. Bullpen help......................Need a Trade or FA.

4. Varsho given new duties......................ASAP

WWWYP - Alderson

He's not a consensus top prospect from what I've read, he cannot consistently throw with the same motion.  Does Oliver Perez and Dontre Willis ring a bell?  Totally agree with you though regarding the potential 2B FAs, but they are free, Iwwy wasn't.

big_o - lineup - it just gives us another guy in the line-up with little power

bullpen - ok, we weakened an already weak spot.  Where will the strengthening come from?

Re NH - ok, will ask again, he's in his last year, what scenario do we see possible?  The GM meetings are next week, does that matter?

Jose,

So you are saying that you would rather give a $6M/yr contract to a 32 year old 2B that is coming off knee surgery than give $4M/yr contract to a 30 year old 2B who has already returned from knee surgery?

I have a friend that works in the AFL.  He's a lifetime baseball guy and offered this report when I asked if Veal was the real deal.  I just thought I'd throw it out there as we discuss the loss of a young arm in this trade.

"Veal has been impressive out here.  Last week in particular, he had excellent command of his pitches which is very encouraging.  

If he continues to throws strikes (as he has here) and not walk batters as in the past, he could stick in the Pirates rotation next spring.  Thus far, he has performed well here…hopefully, he remains consistent.  He is an above average pitching prospect."

"Does Oliver Perez and Dontre Willis ring a bell? "

Well I hope Alderson keeps to his offseason workouts and doesn't have anxiety disorder.

I don't recall anything saying Andy was playing winter ball, but I very well could have missed it.  I know P-R's Neil Walker is in Venezuela though.  

Here's a thought...and it's just a thought, nothing more...DY played RF before Freddy was traded and he while he did makes some mistakes, again, he improved with the time out there.  That would be an option to keep his bat in the lineup, if JR so chose, and The Legend could play 1st.  

I will say though, that my best guess is that DY goes back on the bench -- he was a very good bench hitter.  

This is a good deal, even without an extension. We have a good variety of pitching of all types and are threadbare in the middle infield. Iwamura can play very good, not great 2B, and be a fine #2 hitter. His experience at 3B leaves open the option of getting LaRoche some time at 2B to see if that experiment might have legs. And he'll be a highly marketable commodity come trade deadline next year if an extension doesn't work out.

From a pure baseball standpoint, it makes sense. And from a marketing standpoint it will likely sell a few jerseys in Japan also.

Got this from a friend who has a friend that works in the PBC organization...just thought I'd share,

We met w/ Neal and Frank last week.  Their thought is the youth movement is in place.  We do not really have any impending FA (except Aki now), so there won’t be wholesale changes like last season.  They feel like the lowest levels of minors are solid from last 2 years drafts mixed with a few of Gayo’s early L.A. signings (Starling Marte, etc.)  The trades mostly added AAA players and young major leaguers, so the MLB roster is very young.  The plan is to give the current players a chance to succeed and play together.  Neal thinks the team is better than they were for stretches after deadline and can be competitive once he has an off season to put together a bullpen.  He wasn’t predicting playoffs necessarily or even .500, but thinks the team can be good if the rotation stays solid, Garrett Jones proves to not be a fluke, Andy LaRoche steps up, etc.  2011 is the year they truly believe, but they pointed to a couple of situations where things come together a year earlier than expected.  Also said that he thinks our rotation is better than Twins (not sure about that.)  He also did say that he had no plans to go into next season with Delwyn Young at 2B.

As for the trade:  Chavez is decent, but a dime a dozen.  Worst case scenario we can get a Chavez type back for Aki at the deadline.  Best case – the team starts to come together in ’10 and shows signs that they can contend in ’11 and they extend Aki.  We don’t really have a good 2B prospect coming up through the system until ’12 at the earliest (Chase d’Arnaud is the best prospect we have and he’s at High A.)  His contract is reasonable for ’10 and we honestly have plenty of money budgeted after all of the salary that left with the trades.  Certainly don’t expect Burnitz-type signings, but there could be a few more players like this if the money and years make sense.

Alderson may not be considered a top prospect by everyone but I strongly believe that if we would have offered chavez for him, the giants would have hung up right away.

back for just a bit.

Biz - let me clarify my clarification (gulp)...while i would be disappointed if Neal was given a 3 yr extension during this offseason, i would understand a 1 yr extension.  1-yr E's are sometimes given in sports to send a different message than 'you're gone' or 'you da man'.  It essentially takes the IMMEDIATE spotlight off, says we think this is right track, but we're still gonna have to see results.  BUT WITH THAT SAID...i would be ok with him entering last year on a prove-it contract.  

Am i worried about another Morris trade?  let's put it this way...i SHOULDN'T be since FC and BN can be a guard against that.  I would expect them to block such Littlefield-Save-Job moves.  Let me also be clear...Like him or not, Neal comes across as a confident young man who believes in what they're doing.  such a move would be out of character.

Jose - found the java.  a bit cold but microwaved it.  Thanks

This trade is common sense.

They had no 2nd basemen in the system ready to go next year, a 30 year old veteran that is a full time player with good stats that they can keep for 2 or 3 years is an excellent move.

Chavez could be a very good reliever and help Tampa, that is fine, that would only make this a better trade, some think that if you don't give someone trash for their good players trades are no good. That is wrong.

At this point in time we have a lot of pitchers in this organization that can do what Chavez can do and no one that can do what Iwamura can do.

As far as the plan, nothing has changed with the plan, the trading will continue as it has, the draft will still be an important event to stock pile talent and Neal will still go Dumpster Diving.

We gave away none of the young prospects we have acquired in the last couple of years under Huntington, Although, I would if the right deal presented itself.

The most important part about this move is that the experimenting that took place the last two months of the season cannot continue into the start of next season.

I can't believe anyone wants to see more experimenting and the losing it brings.

...and i still want a bat.  i don't trust Clement, certainly not Pearse.  Prefer OF with Legend at 1B but would accept alternative if better talent that way.  No, doesnt have to be a 30 HR guy.  Look at the HR #s now in post steroid baseball.  We're not GETTING a 30 HR guy unless we 'grow' one.

...and i want it to come from free agency, not a trade.  after the payroll slash, we gotta lotta money.

...and maybe getting Iwwy Pop sends a message to FAs.  No, i know, he's not Joe Morgan.  But he's also not DY.  Maybe a serious non-dump trade helps ability to sign others.

to those who post that all these moves come down to Alderson for Chavez:

1) i make that trade all day and twice on double headers

2) but to be fair, this wasnt a three team deal, and the second trade wasnt envisioned when the first was made.  i think we should judge EACH trade uniquely (and whatever concerns i expressed, neither was a loser) and then judge ALL TRADES IN AGGREGATE to determine how Neal and his evaluators are doing at, um, evaluation.  And on that, jury's still out.  Some concerns but to use the jury analogy, trial's not over.

After sleeping on it and reading through the posts here I have gone from not liking the trade to thinking it is okay.

The Good:

A real 2nd baseman. Mahlom and Duke just got better

A valid #2 hitter. Cutch  and Jones  just got better.

The bad:

Lost what looked like a good arm in the pen.  (but there are pitchers that may take his place)

At present, only have Iwamura for a year. (but is how long we would of had Freddy if they exercised his option)

Looking at it as trading Chavez for Alderson (plus they save $1M) Also seems to make it a positive.

Good morning, all.  I guess this was the big bit of news I was looking for to come back from self-imposed hibernation.  

It's so weird to have a trade at this time of the year, isn't it?  Has any other team made any move at all?  I guess this was set into motion by that odd trade clause of Iwamura's.

I can't say that I see this trade as anything but filling one of many holes left by the demolition of the team at the last tradeline.  I do think there is some concern about trading Chavez, who made enormous gains during the last year, after having barely made the team (which sent me into a tail-spin at the time) and who had so many years left in the Pirates hands.  But bullpens are always thrown together, except maybe for closers, so another will just be cobbled together in March without him.  Idea:  replace Chavez with Capps and designate Hanrahan as closer.  We'll see.

Oh, and just so I can be on record...

I really like this trade. You get a GG-caliber player at your most glaring defensive hole who gets on base at a .354 clip for a promising but mostly unproven 1st year middle reliever.

I would have made this trade also if I were the GM.

As for it deviating from the plan....it doesn't.

Part of the plan, according to the blueprint,  is to "aggressively acquire talent through trades".

As for this trade being made to just appease the fans, I call mularkey on that claim for a couple of reasons:

1. He could have accomplished the same thing by signing a FA 2B for less money than they are going to pay Aki

2. Different articles have mentioned that the Pirates were pursuing him in September

3. If this were truly just an appeasement offering, they would have done it closer to ST to gain interest/momentum going into the new season.

With this deal being done now, it signals that it was done because they thought he was the best available option that they could realistically get (Figgins ain't a coming to Pgh and Uggla's asking price is going to be way too high in terms of what the Marlins will want in return) and the rest of the 2B FA list really is very underwhelming.

A few thoughts.....

-I believe Aki is a much better all-around player than Freddie Sanchez, but I'm not sure why we went against our previous philosophy.  It reminds me of the Matt Morris trade, though I think Aki will perform much better that Morris did.  

-I'm upset we gave up Chavez.  He's was a good reliever for us last year.  An ERA of 4.01 for a rookie reliever is not bad.  He had a hot streak for a couple of months where his ERA was under 2!  Also, we would've had control of him thru 2014.

-If NH thinks Aki will sign with us long-term, he better think again.  If he were in free agency, which he was pretty much guaranteed to be if we didn't trade for him, Aki would never have thought of coming to Pittsburgh.  He's comments about signing an extension with PGH is just being polite.  He'd much rather go back to Japan and play than be on a team that loses 95-100 games.  

-Just because Iwamura moved over to 2B for the Rays doesn't mean he's stuck there.  I do see the Bucs playing him at 3B at least 10 games this year.

-So, that puts our lineup as follows:

1. McCutchen CF

2. Iwamura 2B/3B

3. Jones 1B/RF

4. Doumit C

5. Milledge LF

6. Laroche 3B/2B

7. Moss/Young/Walker/Pearce/Tabata/Free Agent RF or Clement 1B

8. Cedeno SS

9. Pitcher

-The trade changes the whole dynamic of the offense.  It puts a quality bat w/ on-base potential ahead of Jones and Doumit.  Let's just hope they will produce if Cutch and Aki can get on-base for them.

-The trade also leaves our bullpen a little rough, but as bad as you may think.  Chavez made a difference, but that doesn't mean someone can't fill his shoes:

Starters:

1. Maholm

2. Duke

3. Ohlendorf

4. Morton

5. Hart/Lincoln/McCutchen/Karstens/FA

Relievers:

Karstens

McCutchen

Steven Jackson

Anthony Cleggett

Dumatrait

Hanrahan/Capps

Justin Thomas

Veal

Closer:

Capps/Hanrahan

-In closing, just want to point out that Neal Huntington has almost euthanized this roster of David Littlefield's players.  Remaining are Doumit, Capps, Maholm, Duke, McCutchen and Neil Walker.  There's a possibility that all of those players minus McCutchen could be gone by opening day 2011.  In the minors, we have a few more like Lincoln, Moskos, and others.  Not much left for the DL era.

With this deal being done now, it signals that it was done because they thought he was the best available option that they could realistically get

______________________________

I am sure with the resources the Bucs have, they researched this to the death and when you boil it all down there is only one con and a dozen pros to this move. It is a no brainer when you take time to think about it.

now let's fill the other holes!

WNels,

Albeit under somewhat different circumstances, Iwamura came to the Rays after they lost 101 games.  I don't know that the Pirates current state would preclude him from signing an extension is the value is there for him.

I would agree with you that they could also use him at third occasionally.   Nice to have the flexibility and allows them to give LaRoche a rest from time to time.  DY can get some ABs at second that way.

The batting order appears to be taking shape

1,2,3 spots seem to be fixed, we still need a 4 hitter, if we get one, Milledge at 5, Doumit at 6, Laroach at 7 and Cedano at 8 would work.

So a corner outfielder that can hit with a little power or a 1st basemen with a little power that can hit. Maby a guy like Nick Johnson would work.

Better: "Iwamura came to the Rays after they lost 101 games."

---

This is why i say fill the holes with real major leaguers.  This isnt a bad-everywhere Nationals team.  It has specific holes.  I live in Tampa Bay area.  NO one, believe me, NOT ANYBODY, expected last-to-first for Rays going into 2008.  I don't expect it - and no one should - from PBC.  But Rays had some promising young talent, and some on the way from AAA.  Like PBC now, they looked like they were a couple of years away but with some intriguing young guys, and some HOLES.  Iwwy moved to 2nd in 2008 to fill one of the Ray's holes.  Longoria came up as a much needed power bat, another hole, and played 3rd.  Magic happened.

NO - i'm NOT saying fill OF and L relief and we're going to the playoffs.  i AM saying that when you have specific holes you fill them because with young talent, you never know when they're ready to break lose.  Fill the holes and PBC could surprise us...maybe not to Rays level...but who knows and who cares.  IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

NO MORE MAKE-DO.

i meant "break loose" but "break lose" kinda works too

"Albeit under somewhat different circumstances, Iwamura came to the Rays after they lost 101 games.  I don't know that the Pirates current state would preclude him from signing an extension is the value is there for him."

Betterdayscoming,

I'd hope he would want to re-sign.  After watching Kenji Johjima go back to Japan make me think it's possible we won't.  Although, that may have more to do with the Mariners depth at catcher.  

Drew

IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

NO MORE MAKE-DO.

_________________________

Again, common sense, you are right on!

"1,2,3 spots seem to be fixed, we still need a 4 hitter, if we get one, Milledge at 5, Doumit at 6, Laroach at 7 and Cedano at 8 would work."

leadoff,

I agree with the Doumit placement in the order.  He isn't a clean-up hitter, nor was he ever.  Do you see him even on the roster on opening day?  Him and Capps seem like strong candidates for trades.

Drew,

Yes, I agree with you.  I, and others, have been stating that they're really not that far away from being competitive.  I understand that my assessment is based on continued improvement by the young pitchers and PA's arrival in Pittsburgh.  I just like what I see of the acquired talent, not to mention AMac's potential.

I would also wonder what Iwamura's thoughts about an extension might be once he goes to Bradenton and considers the possibility of hitting behind McCutchen and ahead of Alvarez in the next year or so.  If I'm at this point of a career and I see the possibility of being sandwiched between those guys I think it makes me a better hitter.  I would hope that he's also equally impressed with the young rotation.

Leadoff, regarding that four hitter, are you advocating picking up someone prior to PA getting here?  Or do we just wait for that day?  I would tend to lean toward the latter but I think they could still use someone to hit behind him otherwise I just don't see him getting the pitches.

Leadoff - Drew = common sense???

mrs drew has asked for rebuttal.

Let's bring Jack back!  I'm starting a petition.  

WN - no one on this team is a traditional clean-up hitter so i would advocate for: put someone there who will just hit the same way no matter where he is in order....who won't let clean-up expectations make him try to do more than he should and ruin his swing.  i don't know who that is, but JR should say to him - or the candidates for it - you are NOT a clean-up hitter, you are our 4th hitter.  Just use your regular swing and trust it.

with that last diatribe, i have to go make-do at a meeting.

Carry on!

Biz "lineup - it just gives us another guy in the line-up with little power

bullpen - ok, we weakened an already weak spot.  Where will the strengthening come from?"

A #2 hitter usually isn't a power spot.  They do need, as I stated, protection for Jones.  That would need to be somebody with some pop.  Personally, I don't see it being Doumit.  Tabata maybe.  More likely to be a FA or trade.

I don't know if there are enough bullpen candidates ready from within the system.  Maybe somebody will step up but most likely this will have to be outside help.

I don't know much about Iwamura other than the stats.  Is there any chance he brings some veteran leadership that we missed so badly last season?

Drew - now let's fill the other holes!

If I read DK right, and boy is it nice to have him back, if even for a day, he said, don't expect much, but dreaming goes on here, ok, whatever

There have been several posts saying Iwwy is a gold-glover, now is that in this country or in Japan?  Or both?

WNels89 - interesting points, was Chavez a DL guy or an NH guy?  Its interesting that the DL players are quickly moved, and some of the FO/scouts remain?

This place is nuts, we get a 30 yr old banjo hitting second baseman that has driven in 104 runs in his two plus years, hits 281 or something, coming off fairly significant knee surgery, and we get him for one whole year, and folks are ready to set the parade route through downtown??

I do not believe this deal is a no brainer, although I've read nothing really negative on it from the PBC side, except surprise we'd actually spend that money, the consensus seems to be that Tampa Bay got the better of the deal, from what I've read anyways.  But I guess some believe that is acceptable, I'd rather see us win trades

Srsly ; }

WNels

I'd hope he would want to re-sign.  After watching Kenji Johjima go back to Japan make me think it's possible we won't.  Although, that may have more to do with the Mariners depth at catcher.

______________________________

The Pirates are still in the drivers seat, if Iwamura bombs or the knee becomes a problem, they can let him go, if he plays well and has no health problems they can pick up his extension, money always talks.

DArnaud will get this year in AA and we will get a clearer picture of what he is all about.

IMO we need two years out of Iwamura with the lack of upper minor league depth that we have in the middle infield.

WNels,

Please see my response to Drew regarding Iwamura going through ST in Bradenton.  If I'm NH, that's my selling point to Aki and his agent.

He also changes the dynamics at the top of the order.  I mentioned previously the advantage to AMac on the bases by having a LH hitter batting bhind him.  Aki also can run so I can see a more aggressive mentality on the bases.  No more base clogging should mean better run generation.

@ DMac: DK wrote in the main article today that Lil' Stonehenge spent the last month in the Florida Instructional League working at 2B.

Jose

9

Many thoughts here...

Iwamura hit 44 HRs in Japan in the 2004 season?  Holy cow, can that be correct?  How do you explain that?  

www.japaneseballplayers.com/.../player.php

Yeah, bring Jack Wilson back.  Let him retire as a Bucco.  Cedeno is just an average fielder, slightly better hitter.

Ryan Doumit as our cleanup hitter is scary.  He's already peaked and is going downhill.  I would trade him and go with Jaramillo/Diaz platoon, which was very successful in 2009.

BetterDays

Leadoff, regarding that four hitter, are you advocating picking up someone prior to PA getting here?  Or do we just wait for that day?  I would tend to lean toward the latter but I think they could still use someone to hit behind him otherwise I just don't see him getting the pitches.

____________________________

I was saying go out and get a corner outfielder or a 1st basemen with power for the 4 spot. I don't like the idea of experimenting we saw what the last 2 months were like, I think you need veterans on a team for them to be a constant winner, I don't like all young players.

As far as Alvarez is concerned, whether he will be ready or not is a gamble. Getting an established player is less of a gamble. There will always be a way to get Alvarez up here if he is mashing the ball at AAA.

@ Zisk: No, I am not saying I would rather give Freddy a contract. I am just saying that for me, we have ended up with approximately the same result as giving Freddy a contract.

Jose

11

Thanks, Jose.  I can't open that page at work...WebSensed.  

DK wrote in the main article today that Lil' Stonehenge spent the last month in the Florida Instructional League working at 2B.

_______________________

That is a good thing, I wish Walker was doing the same thing, but I don't think he is playing any 2nd base in Winter Ball.  

Good (late) morning, fellows!

  It took me quite a awhlie to catch up on these posts.  It's so nice to have some actual Baseball to talk about - and I don't mean the World Series!  

  I like the trade, overall.  Iwamura is a fine player, and we should be a better team for having him.  I like Jesse Chavez, too, and hate to see him go - but he'll do well in Tampa, and make us all proud!  And we have some other promising young fireballers who will now get their chances.  It'll be fun to watch them develop - like we did, Jesse....

 I think it was not so much a departure from "The Plan" as it was a response to "Opportunity knocking".  Good!  Now, bring on Rick Ankiel - "...or someone like him"!

just popped on one last time to suggest another trade.

a few weeks ago, didnt someone confirm for me that PNC uses BallBoys not BallGirls?

well....

i'm just sayin'...

time to trade up??

bye now.

I am just saying that for me, we have ended up with approximately the same result as giving Freddy a contract.

___________________________

Freddie and Iwamura seem to cancel each other out somewhat, but their roles are a little different, we never really had a place in the batting order for Freddie that fit. We have not had a 2 hitter, Iwamura fits that role.

So even if Freddie and Iwamura cancel out the Bucs still saved 2mil and they only lost Chavez, but they got the big ace in the hole in Alderson.

I guess it comes down to who do you want, Freddie and Chavez or Iwamura and Alderson?

Leadoff,

I believe we picked up Aki's option for 2010 and he's a free agent thereafter.  If he plays poorly or plays well wouldn't matter cause either way he's still a free agent after 2010.  We can't just pick up an extension if he's a free agent.  He has to agree to an extension which could be difficult if he plays well.  Might be a bidding war if he plays well, because quality hitting second basemen are hard to come by.  

Drew71,

The best candidate would be Garrett Jones.  I'd like to see Milledge batting third.  He doesn't have a lot of power, but gets base hits.  I don't care if Jones hit the majority of his HR's with noone on base.  He didn't have a whole lot of opportunities with RISP.  

LarryZ,

With regard to the 44 dingers, my assumption would be very, very small ballparks and a lack of power pitchers in Japan.  

Just an opinion based on what I admit may be outdated information.  

Just a thought: With the aquisition of Iwamura and the possi-

                        bility of reacquiring Wilson - which I am sure

                        is going to spark some interesting debate

                        concerning such a move - the Pirates would

                        be definitely a stronger team up the middle,

                        an essential for any contending ball club. I

                        think this would be a positive move for the

                        Pirates.

Just looking at this past season when the Pirates still had Freddie and Nate, the Pirates were doing reasonably well, won-lost wise. This is not to say that this is was a major accomplishment or of championship quality, but it was a strength. Now add to this the addition of McCutch and Jones, and quite possibly their record could have been much more respectable. Considering this, the addition of Iwamura and Wilson (or someone of his caliber), might be a positive move while some of the future players are still getting minor league experience. This move would add some stability to the present lineup, allow for some flexibility at different infield positions, and be a short-term commitment until the younger, less experienced players are ready for major league play.

Good day inmates.

I lay awake last night, after wrapping up the election edition at 1 a.m., thinking about this trade.

I am heartened to see this benefits the major league club.

I am heartened that Iwwy was sought after by many teams, and we got him.

I am heartened that we don't have to put the future owner of Honest Andy's Used Cars and Treestands on second base, he can placehold until Pedro joins the big team.

For those of you that "meh" Chavez, I say this:

The Cubs wanted Iwwy - but what they wanted to give was not as much value as our Chavey. He is a good pitcher. We lost a good reliever.

For those of you that say "he barely made opening day" I say Albert Pujols wasn't a first round draft pick either, yet people don't hold that against him today.

I wish we could have bought Iwwy Pop, but he wouldn't have made the FA, judging by the interest in him.

Also, do we really want to train an adult to learn second base when the team just lost the best infield coach in baseball? Perhaps that factored in. Perhaps Neal said "Crap. Without Hill, we pretty much have to find someone who's played second in the majors before."

"the consensus seems to be that Tampa Bay got the better of the deal, from what I've read anyways.  But I guess some believe that is acceptable, I'd rather see us win trades"

According to who?

My first impression. Not the worst trade that NH and his circus circus group has made. Its a 1 yr deal, just accept it. If he can play 3/4 as well as Sanchez, its a good trade cause we need a 2B. Chavez, lordy, we cannot find another  guy to pitch 4.01 ball for a few innings? It is a start to improve the team based on the mistakes they made imploding the team the past 2 years. To me step in the right direction. Maybe looking in the mirror and hearing the fans screaming is helping the Front Office decision making process. Welcome to Pittsburgh I say, the Sushi Capital of Eastern America!! I give this trade my blessing LOL!!! For now anyway. Armchair QB I bee!!

Curious George, that was outstanding you lip reader! Actually both of your additions were top of the line. I am jealous of your clever thinking!!

David

LarryZ,

To your earlier question, here's a link to Japanese parks.  Note the Swallows home stadium was 297 down the RF line!

baseballguru.com/.../stadiums.htm

Now with the addition of Iwamura and possibly Wilson, obtaining Josh Willingham or a player of his mold would add an improvement to outfield defense and add some homerun power to the lineup as well. This would definitely be improving the lineup strength one player at a time.

As far as Freddy and Aki canceling each other out, that may be true but Aki is 20 points better on OBP and runs better / steals more.  Freddy hits for a slightly better average.

Drew said...

I'm asking whether this trade represents a turning point reflecting "it's time, we're ready" or whether it reflects a ditch.

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Neither. I'd say it just represents that the initial phase of tearing down and seeing what we got is over.

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We're not GETTING a 30 HR guy unless we 'grow' one.

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You are wise. :-)

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the second trade wasnt envisioned when the first was made.

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Maybe not this exact one, but they figured they could get something comparable to Freddy at the price they wanted. Turns out they were right, which is a positive sign. :-)

Comparing him to Sanchez. OMG!! Its like comparing a bowling ball to a tennis ball and the game is tennis. Sanchez is a much better leader, player, 2d double play man, hitting champion, and has experience with the worst team in baseball, yet being successful as a player.

Being in the SF area, and in love the the pirates. I thank pittsburgh again, Bonds, sorry that was huge to SF. Schmidt, huge again, and the Sanchez trade, Giants are a smart well run team. They gobbled him up, paid what we would not, and my fellow bloggers for a long time were happy he was gone. Well, my arm chair QB from day one was screaming MISTAKE TO LET wilson and sanchez go. Now we are trying to replace him. Aki is as good as we coulda done. But Sanchez was someone I would have built my team around. Giants get it, trust me...

David

Good day to the blogger brethren/sistern,

After contemplating the lineup scenarios for next year there is one idea we have NOT explored. We now have one hole filled, but we can fix two holes with just one move. Dump Ryan and put Andy behind the dish, he says it has always been his best position and his batting skills neatly transfer to catcher so the we have a lineup of this on opening day

Cutch LF

Iwamura 2B

Tabata RF

Pedro 3B

Jones 1B

Milledge LF

Laroche C

Cedeno/whomever SS

This lineup may not prove to be conducive to runs in 2010 but it has definite possibilities, and will only improve into 2011and beyond.

Fairy tale you say?

Maybe but LaRoche at the bat is far better than Ryan.

He was raised by a major league pitcher and I am sure that he knows the job and is capable of performing at least adequately.

I don't like this talk about comparing Iwamura to Freddy.  Sanchez played with great passion, hustle, and heart.  You can't compare Iwamura to Sanchez without first seeing how much hustle/ heart he puts into the game.

Besides, Freddy is gone, so there is no sense in comparing the two.

I'm happy they made the trade.  Agree with many of the posters above who feel that we have a few other holes to fill, but could be on the right track.

Indiana - srsly? No.

Howdy, all.  News, at last, about dem Buccos, and good news it appears to be.  First thing that came to my mind after I saw the headlines was an old Beatles song, "Fixin' a Hole".

Yeah, Chavez looks to have good upside, and is under contract for several years, but he can't play middle infield that I know of.   This trade protects our pitchers (crucial, IMO), gives Cedeno a more reliable DP partner, and fills the two-hole.  Lots to like, and if he works out well, we can make him a very attractive offer.  Remember, too that Cedeno hit a bit better against NL pitching than AL pitching - I suspect that Iwamura may have the same experience.  

@indianafanatic:  Didn't Andy get hurt catching in college?  I remember reading something about a Doctor telling him that he could never catch again.

to all bloggers:

Memo, Yinz all were complaining of Ryan not being the best catcher, just offering options. Quite the fantasy I portrayed! Got your attention and hopefully made ya think.

It is what BFD and I like to do, I just am not so po'd at the FO.

Srsly folks, we fixed one hole out of at least three maybe four on the team. All this sudden optimism reminds me of MIss Janey on Romper Room from the late 50's. It only last until you get bit by the real world.

Winter meetings are in December in Indianapolis, I am planning on being there just for the fun of it and because I can.

Mrs Indy says I am addicted to blogging with yinz, but I tell her that at least they (yinz) pay attention without asking for money.

"I don't like this talk about comparing Iwamura to Freddy.  Sanchez played with great passion, hustle, and heart.  You can't compare Iwamura to Sanchez without first seeing how much hustle/ heart he puts into the game."

You can look at what the rays fans are saying and what the vice president of baseball operations for the rays is saying.

Andrew Friedman VP

On switching to 2nd for promotion of longoria "Essentially, his comment was, 'whatever it takes to help the team win,'...And I think all of his teammates saw that and really appreciated that, as did the organization."

He later add about iwamura, "It's tough to put into words what Aki's meant to this organization,"

Some of the comments by rays fans on their blog,

"Does anyone know how to spell "leadership by example"? Somethings can not be measured in strictly money spent. He will be missed."

"I understand that this is a business decision but this is just one more piece of our championship team that is being "peeled away". Could we not have found a way to keep him here? He always seemed to come up with that clutch hit when needed. Good luck Aki we will miss you. "

"I know Zobrist, Brignac and Rodriguez are or can be good players but.. this blows! Aki was a stud and a team player. As said, he was better then what they had all year defensively and a .300 hitter Good Luck, Aki!"

"Defensive shortcomings hurt the team terribly this past year. Iwamura's injury contributed to this as he was a defensive stud at 2nd base"

Howdy, PoH,

  New icon is a "scream", buddy!  I share the optimistic outlook on the trade.  One slight point though, as I recently read, is that our new infielders' coach. Mr. Garcia, is no slouch.  His work with Seattle produced noticeable results:  #1 in in some fielding categories in the American League one year and #2 the next....  So we have not fallen off the edge of the earth with the departure of the admittedly excellent Mr. Hill.  (The Andy LaRoche comment did make me chuckle - I must admit!)

"Comparing him to Sanchez. OMG!! Its like comparing a bowling ball to a tennis ball and the game is tennis. Sanchez is a much better leader, player, 2d double play man, hitting champion, and has experience with the worst team in baseball, yet being successful as a player."

Haha, I'm gonna have to write this one down.

I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT BOB NUTTING AGREED TO THIS TRAVESTY OF A TRADE

DOESN'T HE KNOW THAT THIS WILL CUT INTO HIS PROFITS

HOW CAN HE SPEND MONEY, I KNOW NEIL MADE HIM DO IT, NUTTING IS SO SPINELESS.

DID HE FORGET THE MANTRA OF THE CLUB.

"IT IS A CULTURE OF PROFITS BABY"

REPEAT AND RINSE THREE TIMES FOR MAXIMUM EFFECT

Luv Ya Nuthouse gang

Matt Morris filled a hole.  He was a leader, a gamer, well-liked by his teammates.  Just saying...

I like Iwwy much better.  He has more left in the tank and is obviously cheaper.  He will be a positive for 2010.  However, why give up anyone who has already had success, and who the team controls for another 5 years.  2 of them dirt cheap.

The Rays will pay Chavez less in 2010 than what they would have paid Iwamura to NOT play for them.  Unless I see it reported that the Rays had a similar offer from another team, Neal got taken to the cleaners, at least to an extent.

Again, a good trade for the team for this year.  In the big picture, it wreaks of desperation.

The Pirate's will either have to sign Iwamura to a new contract in the near future or they will have to sign some else next year, I would think they would like to see how he does out of the gate this year before committing to a new contract.

Of course the player can put pressure on the Pirates and tell them, he wants a new contract now, if the does not get one, he is not staying, that might speed things up with them.

No matter how you cut it, we are a couple of years away from a 2nd basemen in house.

"In the big picture, it wreaks of desperation. "

Good.  They should be desperate.

Indy

I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT BOB NUTTING AGREED TO THIS TRAVESTY OF A TRADE

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Neal just did business with a salary dumper, what a novelty.

indiana - "Mrs Indy says I am addicted to blogging with yinz, but I tell her that at least they (yinz) pay attention without asking for money."

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Hey Indiana...can you send me a Buck?

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I am guessing NH is in hot water today after INCREASING payroll which is in direct violation of his contract and "duties as assigned"

I wonder if his office has been moved to the basement with the bobblehead painters?  I picture the Seinfield episode where George has been discovered as not being disabled and they keep moving his office to a worse location....... or perhaps the office space senerio?

RAISE THE JOLLY ROGER NH

Leadoff - the execution of a salary dump trade only makes sense when you aren't giving up someone of comparable value.  Just because salary was taken on, does not make this a successful salary dump acquisition.  The idea was great, but execution very flawed IMO.

But wait, Freddy would have made $6M if the Pirates picked up his option. Iwamura only costs $5M. That was Neal's plan all along.

That means this trade is nothing but a SALARY DUMP!!!!!

Top o the afternoon to ya "B"

I do not think Leadoff "caught the sarcasm" as intended.

If I had a buck I give it to you buddy but the missus has already spent my entire 2010 salary on Chicago Cub bobble heads, now i can get my Grabow bobble head at least

I think we have entered the alternate universe where the Pirates spend money and will win the Series next year. it is good to dream right PoH.

According to the missus I spend my nights with strange people

I'll say this about her she is a good judge of people

hi-ho hi-ho it's off to work I go hi-ho hi-ho hi-ho

Sorry NH does not qualify as a dump because we had DY in the stable at a cool 400K. so we actually INCREASED SALARY, love the time warp thing makes me feel 18 again, and I like it

I got a babies brain and an old mans heart

took 18 years to get this far

I'm in the middle the middle of life....

Where was I, Alice where did you go?

ALICE, ALICE

Sorry she doesn't live here anymore

Hi, Indiana,

   Nice word-painting - very trippy!  As for being "misread" - don't worry - happens to me all the time.  It's just a chance you taske every time you choose humor/satire/sarcasm/allusion....  It's OK - those who get it, get it.

whatswrongwithyoupeople.

Not sure you are wif me or a-gin me LOL. No matter I did write one hell of a sentence/Paragraph I admit! Am at work and trying not to use the F word LOL when I blog for no relevent world contributing reason about my beloved Pittsburgh Pirates....

Bottomline to me is: We should not have traded Sanchez. Welll we did, SF area where I live, thanks you, me, us. If we had to get a 2b then I suppose this is as good a trade as we could make given the situation and spending of money strategy we have in place. All I know is if the Front Office had a plan, it is now a changed plan when they saw the results of last season trades that made the FO look foolish IMO. And I think now are running scared. I know how they feel, I am watching the Pirates scared LOL!!   Cheers David