Official now: Pirates get Iwamura for Chavez

this is the blockbuster we've been waiting for

Close but how close--

Chase Utley isn't going to be playing 2nd for the Pirates any time soon, so a power hitting 2B who's a complete player isn't going to happen.  I think Iwamura would be a good get.

He's a quality player, or could be anyway, so it's a good gamble.  I'm not sure if it really matters, because they should get him for nothing (nobody on the 40-man roster IMO) and they'll trade him by July anyway.

I'd think they'll work Andy up to it, and when Pedro is ready then Andy moves to 2B after Iwamura is dealt.  If he can have a quality first half, they'll get a decent return and they have the $ to spend anyway.  If he blows them away and is the answer at 2B long-term, great, but I'm not sure they'd pay to extend him even then.  Not much to lose in the deal.

If the Rays give $ and get a slightly better player back, then give me a break.  Not sure why I feel the need to even bring that up, but I hope it doesn't happen.

wow...news

As I said before I realized the march, it depends on what we give. Jesse Chavez? Heck NO!

NH - Mr. Coonelly did NOT imply what you quoted he implied about Jack. That was not it at all.

From looking at his stats oh to be a baseball player.  BA ok, little power, strikes out about twice as often as he walks,  4.25 million  

PoH - So the majority of folks in here seem to think its 3 years away, the above .500 season. What matters is what the decision makers think and base their decisions on.

PoH so where do I sign up for the World Series tickets?

Chavez and someone else for one stinking year?

DK's interview or at least the notes were very interesting, I finally left and caught the very end.  He said he really likes his work, thats good to hear.  

Regarding the trade to be, I thought for sure they would clear some space with guys with no options left, Moss, Pearce, guys they clearly don't like, but another pitcher goes.

I'm being good JJ, but lots of comments are going through my mind.

Repost from prior thread:

Just to add a little to the DK Mark Madden interview.

What I heard DK say was that a lot of baseball people like the Pirates' plan of using the Oakland/Minnesota approach, but are very much lukewarm at best on the execution.

My understanding of what he said about payroll is that the $60-65 mil figure was in reponse to MM's question about what it would have taken to field a winning team (unclear exactly what that meant--I took it as being legit playoff contender, not .500) IF they would have kept Bay, McLouth (not everybody, but most) and DK, while prefacing it as a guess, said it would have taken the 60-65 mil.

He also said based on the low payroll this year,  he was not suggesting it was even wise to go out and spend a ton for 2010, but he did say that down the road they are going to have to start keeping some people and spend in the Milwaukee $80 mil range.  He clearly thinks they can spend at least what Milwaukee spends.

He had an explanation for the approach they took (trading Bay,etc.) that I had never heard explicitly before.  He said the FO thought they would have had to have gone out and spent a lot to get some starting pitching to make that team successful (60-65 total) and that they were "scared to death" to put that money out on one or two starting pitchers that only played every fifth day and could go down with an injury anytime.  

Part of the tone of the interview, like any, was the nature of the questions.  Big surprise to me---MM was impressed with FC's hiring (nothing against FC, but MM isn't usually impressed by anyone except Mario L and Sidney Crosby).

YAWN

Biz

Pearce has an option left  Moss doesn't

Jesse Chavez?  Why?

For Dan Uggla, maybe.  Obviously, that would be a good deal but it would still barely make sense.

Why trade a quality arm with 5 years left before free agency, for a guy with 1?  The deal is saving TB $, they'd have to pay $550K just to have the guy not come back.

I'm hoping the 2nd guy in the deal is a good player, but there's no way it will be.  I'm left scratching my head at this move.  It contradicts their stated plan.  Money must be coming the Pirates' way in this trade.

Hopeful One,

As regards Jack Wilson and Coonnelly, Billy Kidd told me directly what Frank told him.  I may still have e-mail.

Oh you have GOT to be kidding me.

Srsly.

yeah, because our bullpen is SO stocked.

I'm changing my screen name.

He didn't say no one liked Jack. I was there. Bill was drinking, I wasn't.

Based on past deals...we can figure that the other player the Pirates are getting...will be a "troubled" Class A pitcher...that throws hard...but has "potential".

I don't like giving up Chavez.

Iwamura had a really bad knee injury last year. I remember that it was an almost dirty play he got hurt on. Someone was out of the baseline and slid late.

I think Iwamura's pick-up insures that Pedro Alvarez will spend the whole year at AAA, unless he has a monster start.

Average start = full year at AAA, while he defines his bat and whether he truly is a 3B.

Andy has one more year to prove he can hit enough to play 3B!

Our bullpen is so stocked?  PoH was that a negative word I just heard from you?

Thanks JAL, Diaz was another one I was thinking about options wise, a catcher might have made more sense, and actually I was hoping if they made a move, someone would take a flyer on Hart, from the cheap seats, the guy has none of his name

JAL - Iwamura has been about a 2.5 WAR player, which is similar to Freddy Sanchez. Last year he was hurt and played half the year, so 1.2 WAR.

Going rate is about $3M-$4M per WAR point, so that would be a bargain if he's able to produce at a 2 WAR pace this year.

Freddy's new contract assumes a 2 WAR player.

BTW, if Chavez turns out to be a stud, and Iwamura turns out to be the dud I think he is... This may be the deal that kills Huntington. A lot of IF's there, but unless there is some metric on Iwanmura I am unaware of, this is a terrible waste of money, and almost Littlefieldesque pick-up

Groat and POH

I was there too and I wasn't drinking.  I think what he said was something like Jack was not as popular in the clubhouse as he was with the fans.  He never said that none of the players liked Jack.

Could the other player be Matt Joyce?

Row of Bizzes,

Dejan did say in his interview that Huntington still really likes Hart and still thinks that will be a 'winner trade' for the Bucs.

Doesn't sound like Hart is going anywhere.

So we get another player from TB, to keep the player control.

If i was a player, I wouldn't like being talked about like that, much like the new blogger that called us "you people"

If it was Carl Crawford, I'd rescind my shot at 90 wins, otherwise....

The only possible saving grace with this one is if we eat all of the salary, then we might have gotten something with the throwin, another "maybe" I'd take right now

WAR over the last 3 seasons:

Freddy Sanchez 3.6

Akinori Iwamura 3.4

Essentially the same player, but people will complain about Iwamura and love Sanchez.  Gotta love this site.

JAL - that's exactly what I heard too. It wasn't "no one likes Jack" it was that he didn't rate as high among his teammates as he did with the fans.

I'm still thinking of a new moniker. Yes Biz, that is what you heard from me.

In my head, I had Chavez as the fallback if Capps can't get it together. He's effective, he's cheap, he does three batters, four batters, very well. Now he'll do it very well for Tampa and this new second baseman (WHICH I ADVOCATED BUYING A SECONG BASEMAN AND YES I ADMIT THAT BUT YOU DO NOT TRADE THE TRANSMISSION FOR A NEW SET OF TIRES) better be all he's cracked up to be.

I didn't know it was a one year rental, but even if it's for only half a year, I like him there way better than DY.  His knee better be OK.  Not sure about trading one of the few reliable relievers, though.

Interesting about Chavez...

He's one that I've been looking at because I've been getting into analyzing tRA stats for pitchers.

tRA measures the different types of outcomes from a pitcher - line drives, grounders, popups, flyballs, strikeouts, etc - and gives a score to each event based on what the average result would be. This is an attempt to take luck and defensive support out of the equation for the pitcher.

Chavez was one guy that jumped out at me as interesting.

Chevez's tRA in 2009 was 4.92, which was a tRA+ of 87, with 100 being average. The implication is that given average luck and average defense, Chavez should have had an ERA of 4.92.

In other words, that stat tells us he was probably a bit lucky to do as well as he did.

Wow a big trade as far as Pirates are concerned, but not sure if I like trading away a young reliever with a dynamite arm we would have control of for 5 more years for a 30 year old 2nd basemen we'll have for a year. Hopefully other player to be named will be a good one.

Will he be the 2nd basemen now? Or a utility man?

Neal and JR are on the last year of a three year contract. Neal better hope this trade works.

On the other hand, no free agents will come here so there is probably no other option.

"If i was a player, I wouldn't like being talked about like that, much like the new blogger that called us "you people"

If the second part of this statement was meant to be serious, there are a few things you should know.

1. I have been here for a while

2. my name had meaning when I created the account, can't remember what.  

3. You may not have noticed my presence because I do not think it is necessary to come talk with people i don't know when I don't have anything to add to the discussion because disagreement lead to pointless arguments like the one you just tried to create. Why does it matter to you what my user name is?  Tell me when it affects you life in anyway.

Groat...FC did not say no one likes Jack.  I would back up what JAL and PoH have already stated about that.  I think BK may be getting his gatherings mixed up just a little. :-)

So...DY goes back on the bench, where he did a very good job.  I think he showed a great deal of improvement at 2nd, but I will  agree, he's not a starting IF'er.  

PoH...I think Hanrahan may be more in the line as next closer, after Capps, but that is maybe just my take on that.  

I am sorry to see Chavez go though. He pitched pretty well for us and was one of the more reliable relievers.

Mark and jnn--can you guys reconcile your stats?

By the way, on the last thread after glancing at Iwamura's stats, I said that he looked like Freddy with a lower average, but his defense looked pretty amazing last year in the playoffs.  See, I don't need no stinking fancy schmanzie new stat formulas to make the right call.  ;-)

jnn -

Yes, and Iwamura's career wOBA = .338, which was Freddy's wOBA in 2007, his last injury free season.

If Iwamura's knee is really healed, this is a great substitute for Sanchez.

Nothing against Iwamura but I just do not see the sense in trading one of the better arms in the pen who you have for 5 more years for a 2b in the final year of his contract.  If the Pirates needed a 2b to solidify a playoff team it would make sense but a Sanchez type 2b is not going to turn the team into a contender.  

D mac

I see Hanrahan as the closer in waiting too.  

Thank you JAL. Especially for reminding everyone Chavez is one of the better arms in the pen. Pitched more innings this year than any other rookie in the NL.

DMac - Chavez and Hanrahan were mentioned side by side in potential closers.

If I were in a joking mood I'd say Chavey should never have worn that Mets cap to Bowling with the Bucs....

This is a good move to build on the d up the middle. Iwamura is solid with the glove and hits from 280. to 300.  Which is a huge need. Dw Young is not the answer. Chavez is easliy replaceable with Meeks and Hanrahan. Plus the front office needs to make some noise with the series  still going to get us die hard buc lovers interested.    Any more news on the new bradenton single A team? I read team name will be released Nov 11th

Iwamura is almost as good as a healthy Sanchez.  That means we traded a quality bullpen arm and we're one step closer to being as good as we were the first half of last year...YES!!!

I'd say that I can't believe it...but I'd be lying.

The asylum begs for something....ANYTHING...to be done that will put a proven MLB player at 2B. The FO does just that and the usual suspects still complain that it isn't enough. I'm shocked! Shocked I tell ya!

While he isn't the power bat that is sorely needed, he solidifies the MI and may be able to bat lead off. He's got a career .354 OBP and some wheels. He'll have had the full off season to get the strength back in his knee even though he was able to play on it this year.

If he does, that move McCutchen to 3rd, Jones cleanup and whomever they sign to play the RF (maybe Ankeil?).

you guys are crying about jessie chavez

we have plenty of guys who can easily fill in who was a shocker on this team in the first place

guys like hart, hanrahan, meek, steven jackson( had a sub 3.30 era) we have veal, karstens, moskos, alot of guys who can step in for him

and in return a better 2nd basemen, a solid bat who can play 3rd too, so when we want to see andy at 2nd we can see how he looks there,

he can bat leadoff first or 8th

he is better then delwin at every aspect of the game

so its a steal for the pirates

bowserpower

I would agree with you, if Iwamura was under contract for more then one year!

In 2 or 3 days the Rays were going to pay Iwamura $550K to not play with them next year.  Why would the Pirates trade Chavez for him?

Regardless of what Iwamura does or can do, unless the 2nd player is comparable to Chavez in talent and years of control, the Pirates overpaid.

I've seen $4.8 or $4.85 million listed for Iwamura next year, as well as $4.25 reported above.  Which is it?  Is the buyout money (paid by the Rays?) the difference?  Not that it really matters, but I'm curious.

Sorry, PoH...I must have missed that somewhere.  It happens.  :-)

If Billy told you that groaty, he is flat out wrong and POH is correct.

WWWYP, it wasn't you, relax, it was a new blogger.

Its a one year or less rental at about 5 million, and ok, his stats say he was lucky, but I think he was a rookie and was a chew toy in the bullpen use wise, wasn't he one of those rightys that could get leftys out, so we didn't need a lefty?

And the story continues another day, another scratch on my pretty much bald head.

At least this will stop us from overpaying for Ugglia, but see what I mean about trading leadoff?

Chavez was not a superstar, but it makes you wonder, I can't wait to hear the spin if this goes down.

More on tRA...

The only Pirate relievers with lower than average tRA and more than 10 innings pitched were...

Joel Hanrahan - 3.09

Bautista, Denny - 3.58

Evan Meek - 4.01

Bootcheck, Chris - 4.20

=================

On my last post where I put up the WAR numbers I'm not sure what I did, but I posted the numbers wrong.  I had them correct, but didn't type them in backwards for some reason.  It's

Freddy Sanchez:6.4

Akinori Iwamura: 6.3

DMac, JAL, and Plenty,

I will bow to your recollections of Coonnelly discussion visavis Wilson, but I'm sure Billy and I discussed stronger terms.  My series of e-mails with Billy actually was consistent with what Hostage wrote:  I thought that it was grossly inappropriate for Connelly to disparage one of his players in a semi-public fan forum such as the gathering, even if Frank told Billy privately this was on the QT.  I've had bad feelings about Frank since then.

However, thanks for your correction.

josh -- I'm not aching over who we got, but who we gave.

I can't, based on what I saw at PNC in 2008, agree that Hart can be as effective as Chavez right now. Those who know more than me say Hart will come along in the School of Kerrigan and be a bottom of the rotation, reliable guy. OK, show me.

I have advocated for two days instead of moving someone over and saying "hey, would you like to play second base?" like this was a t-ball game, to buy a real player. I don't like who we gave, that's all.

And in case you haven't been following long, this asylum is not made up of happy people. Some less happy than others.

What's Wrong

I think the post you are concerned about did not refer to you.  I think it referred to a post on the previous thread that began

First time poster, long time lurker…but I can’t take anymore of this. How can you people

The guy's not a bum....or a formerly good 39 yr old.  Sure he's not Joe Morgan (is HE still available?)...he's reasonably close to Freddy, for $2 M less, and while the Ps dont have immediate help at 2B YET in minors, they have decent talent there that's not ready yet.  What i want to know is who the other player is.  Seems a bit imbalanced as Chavez for Iwwy Pop but that could change with rest of deal.  

I'm willing to wait for the full deal to unfold before i start hyperventalating.  But whether we gave up too much or not, Iwwy is not a bum.  

Zisk, gotta quantify, some in the asylum wanted a 2bman, and some/most wanted more than a one year rent-a-player.  And we hear the mantra, its all about player control, this one, doesn't fit that mantra, IMO of course.

I've worked for many folks, the ones I always liked were the ones that send the same message, good and bad times, and they could be good or bad messages, but they were consistent all the time, we'll see what happens and we'll see how we deal with the 2b mess in 2011.  This is stopgap, nothing more, nothing less

GoBucs, Apparently the contract would be for between 4.25 and 5.25 depending on the PAs between 2007-2009. But Cots doesn't have the PA formula listed.

I'm guessing $4.8M or $4.85M is where it's at.

Drew - pass that brown bag you don't need over here. I have real heartburn over losing Chavez. I know Iwwy isn't a bum. Half my coworkers said the Pirates are finally showing some want to in the W column, the other half want to know why I don't save myself the grief and stop paying attention to the team.

do you really think losing jessie chavez is that bad

ive had season tickets for years going to about 50 games a year since i was 10

im 20 now

i follow the pirates

losing jessie chavez is like losing a dollar bill in a sports bet

he is easily replaced

the pirates have improved this team

we have depth, we have a core group of guys

this team can win 85 games next year

and ps

jessie chavez was battling to get on the squad this year

Hopester: "I'm not aching over who we got, but who we gave."

That's fair.  I don't love but i kinda like what we got.  If the deal ended with these two, i'm questioning like you are.  Just suggesting we wait until we see the second player coming before passing judgment.  probably another big athletic kid with a downward plane.

First of all, welcome backDK. Hope it was a restful, enjoyable vacation for you and yours.

POH, I'm shocked. You are the model of everything the pirates hope for in a fan/customer. If you're unhappy about this move, they have to wonder what does it take to bring people back into the tent.

Yes, people have been posting that a 2b is needed.  But a 2b for 1 year--that puts them right back where they are now after the 2010 season.  If you want to fill a dead spot it should be for more than 1 year.

Biz,

It's a stopgap, but it's a cheap one.  And as it stood IMO, second base would have been an embarrassment.

I liked Chavez, but I can't get upset about losing a bullpen arm even if we had him for many more years.

Hideki Matsui Kawata Akinori Iwamura is not who I would have chosen to pick up  .  .  .  .  .  however, he IS a quality Major League player.

I applaud Neal Huntington for making the Major League team better!!

Just PLEASE don't tell me that Denny "Bombs Away" Bautista will be taking the empty spot of Chavez!!

Hopester - i gotta keep the brown bag for the night...using it to cover my ugly pug.  Maybe i should write Pirate Fan on the front.  That would explain everything!

kidding.  just KIDDING!

sure is lonely here in purgatory.

josh ... I know Chavez was struggling to make the team. Did you see the interview in April  where he said he knows the fans cringe when he's called out, and it's his job to pitch well enough to change their mind?

He did.

If reliable relievers are like a dollar bill, why doesn't every team have five of them?

I have sweaters older than you kid. Don't talk like the rest of us aren't wise.

If there isn't another somewhat quality and cost controlled player coming to the Bucs, this is kind of a shortsighted move by the team.

Look at it this way...we would have Iwamura for 2010. We don't have to worry about arbitration. There's no financial commitment for 2011. If he does well...then we work out a contract extension...if not...he gets released.

If he opts for free agency...we don't get a comp pick...which isn't a sure bet for the majors anyway...considering our draft history. At that point...the trade becomes Jesse Chavez for the currently unknown PTBNL...which can be somewhat better assessed when we know who the warm body is.

There are going to be a bunch of bullpen pitchers non-tendered in the next 2 weeks. I'm sure we can find one to replace Jesse.

just noticed that Dejan wrote the story.  of course about 17 of you beat me to it.  dont have to hit me with a stick, i'm now #18.

So Dejan....i'm not welcoming you back from vacation.  i mean that in most positive sense...i hope this is just a pop in for the trade and you get another month.

I travel a lot...nothihng like you do...but more than i wish and i know what the value of down time is with family...when you can get it.  Enjoy it while it lasts.

now heres some food for thought

should the pirates move aki to third

put andy to 2nd and when pedro is ready

goodbye aki

maybe this is what the pirates want to do

although aki for a 3b numbers wouldnt be pretty

no one should be upset at losing a guy like jessie chavez

there are tons of relievers out there that can fill the void

yes hes young

but we have depth that can fill in

and wow, nothing like a trade on an otherwise slow, non-game night to bring out the bloggers!

ain't life grand!

It looks like Pedro will not be up this year.

Andy will get all year at third.

Thanks, Mark

It may seem to be the case, and not that it was necessarily directed at me, but I'm not hyperventilating.  I am annoyed and confused with this move though.

I was very happy to hear Iwamura was heading to Pittsburgh, until the specifics came out.  This trade is inconsistent with their stated goals IMO, and that is all.  It can change depending on who's the 2nd player, but my hopes are extremely low.  It wouldn't make sense for the Rays to give up another quality player in the deal, and if I'm giving either FO the benefit of the doubt it's not the one in Pittsburgh.  

"I have sweaters older than you kid."

Hope springs eternal.  You have the BEST lines!  

We're officially closing my fan club and revving up yours.

Update above....  No other players or cash involved.  Iwamora for Chavez, straight up.

Oh no, they say he's got to go.

Go go Godzilla.

Y'all know what the trading of Chavez really means???

We will HAVE to pick up a left-handed reliever!

Remember when Grabow was traded, Neal Huntington kept saying that Jesse Chavez would be our reliever against left-handed batters, because he was better than Grabow against lefties!

Now we have no one.

Left-handed reliever, just around the corner!

Official.

So there's not room on the bench for Moss and Young, right?

This big second base move should have come in free agency. From free agency. That's my opinion.

Radio - I know when you trade, someone has to go. I just think for the state of the pen, and the performance Chavez gave this year, we're getting rid of someone we need right now. It's not like the Pirates can't afford to pay in free agency. We're not paying a doctor bill with chickens and a side of beef, we have cash.

SPEND THE CASH YOU HAVE FOR NEEDS.

"It looks like Pedro will not be up this year.

Andy will get all year at third."

?

I'm sorry but I don't get this one.

Chavez struggled down the stretch, but that might have been because he seemed to pitch in every game.  I thought another year with Kerrigan would have made JC more consistent and reliable.  I thought he was a very good arm.  And I'm not sold on the return.

Weren't the Rays thinking of cutting him anyway.

And wasn't Chavez one of the guys that supposedly made the burning candle shrine to traded players?  I think the other was Sean Burnett.

How about 3 men playing two positions?

Start with LaRoche at 3 and Iwwy Pop at 2nd (is that gonna stick or is it too 80s?).  Pedro earns his way up and plays 3.  Andy alternates between 3 and 2 (after getting some time at 2 in ST), with Iwwy staying at 2.  Then options for 2011...extend Mr Pop, or if LaRoche does well, move him to 2.

Hopester...dont yell at me...NOT the same thing as experimenting Make-Do.  Mr Pop is the 2nd baseman, not well-this-is-new LaRoche.  If Pedro comes up, Andy gets an OCCASIONAL start at 2.  If looks promising, then ST of 2011 he gets nearly all the reps at 2.  Works him into 2 IF his bat earns it, and if he makes the transition.  If it doesnt work, no harm.

Just a thought

Dejan just reported no others players or cash in deal!

Darn, I was hoping for Longoria.

Feeling heat after losing at a much worse clip than expected in the 3rd year of the plan, the GM decides to get questionable older expensive major league talent by trading away younger, higher ceilinged talent in a desperate attempt to get better quick.

Is this Littlefield or Huntington?

Hopesterino - yes yes a thousand times YES. ("SPEND THE CASH YOU HAVE FOR NEEDS.")

They have plenty of cash after slashing payroll so far.  They dont have EXCESS talent or they'd be, you know, GOOD.  So trading for talent rather than buying it?  ummm, Neal?  Not a terrible move but c'mere buddy, let me whisper in your ear (look furtively left, look furtively right) BUY SOMEBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(phew, hwuh, phew...breathe...gotta breathe)

Longoria.... Groat, you tease. How I wish.

There's a long list of 2B available in free agency.  Do I like any of them better than Iwamura?  From what I recall, no (they'd never pay for Belliard or Hudson), and it's probably not even close.  Do I HATE THIS MOVE?  Yes!

They could have signed a free agent at 2B, with very little dropoff, and kept Chavez for another 5 years.  If their focus is on winning in 2-3 years, why in the world would you make this move.

I don't agree completely with their plan, but I was willing to live with it.  This is the exact opposite of the plan.  Again, I'm perplexed.  I just don't get it.

The only explanation I can see is, they absolutely did not want to pay more than what they feel is market value for a 2B.  This way, they pay what they feel is fair for one, and all they do is give up a quality bullpen arm and replace it with another cheap stiff who might surprise us.  That does nothing for the long-term plan, it just saves a few bucks in 2010.

Thundercrack,

Wise observation.  Anyone who wears their hat sideways or displays any individuality or expresses any opinion other than the official Fuhrer position, G-O-N-E!

Neal is not the romantic type:  he doesn't like candles.

Hopeful One,

It was nice to hear you smile again on the computer, if only for a little while.

At least 2nd base is resolved for 2010.

Can't believe NH didn't get a kick-in player.

Neal, please get us a RF who can hit 25 HRs and cover the Legend in the order.

JRAY

without another player coming...and with Iwwy Pop only signed for one year...i'm not thrilled.  Still it fills a hole, so i'm not hating it...let me put it another way...

William Shatner:

Just...(pause)... think...(pause)... could...(pause)... do...(pause)... better...(pause)... with...(pause)... free...(pause)... agent

must...(pause)... stop...(pause)....posting...(pause)... like...(pause)... idiot....

As long as Pedro continues to destroy minor league pitching he will undoubtedly be called up in early June. I imagine he will replace either LaRoche or Jones. It will give the front office another opportunity to make sure Jones is for real and if he isn't Alvarez will take over at first base.

I like this trade, personally.

We can keep A.Larouche @ 3B, we get a player who can play 2B at least as good as Sanchez, and his power may come, and who knows what impact Chavez might make but he could be a major flop and we fill one of our needs (2B).

This is far superior to the Bay trade for sure.

@Doc "questionable older expensive"

---

ok, all seriousness aside...

Doc, this guy is a legit major leaguer.  He's not a superstar but he's not a bum, he's 30 not 39.  He's not questionable.  He is what he is (GAWD i hate that expression).  But if we were going to get an ok-not-great-but-not-broken-down guy, why give up talent?  Why not find one on the open market?

> On the knee: The Pirates' scouts saw Iwamura three times in September, and his running time and range were "as good as pre-injury." He was missing his right leg, though, and it remains to be determined if he still will need one.

---

Really Dejan?  Wow.  now THAT'S a scoop!

kidding.  I'm just KIDDING!

TC--you hit the nail on the head with the shrine.  That explains it.

PoH--quit your whining; it's not like they traded ole dreamy eyes.

G-Man--HELP!

At least I have a pretty good chance of seeing Chavey pitch in October.

Iwwy Pop it is.

Now I'm really scared we'll get a right fielder with pop and for that guy we'll trade Maholm, Duke, Ohlendorf and Jones. Won't that be fun?

I forgot about the shrine.

Bingo!

WHAT?! Pirates fans greatly over-valuing a player that had a single good year? Unheard of!

It's a good deal for both clubs, just take a look at some of the non-biased comments non-Rays/Bucs fans are saying at MLBTradeRumors...  Yes, Jesse was a good player, but it was a single year, and it wasn't absolutely spectacular.  And beside, we had to TRAIN someone to play second base this year, Iwamura PLAYS second base.  Hats off to DY for stepping it up for the year, but come on. We just got a Freddy Sanchez clone for a portion of the price. Love it.

joerevs--"and his power may come."  C'mon, I ain't the stats guy but Iwamura is 30 years old!

FA market weak, so this is what they came up with. they're also admitting that the DY experiment failed. That's why all experiments should be proven or dismissed during ST.  Hanrahan is the candidate for closer. If PA is ready by 7/1, look for LaRoche/Capps bundled in a trade.  Bring in all the lefties you can find during spring, hopefully we can find 2 that will keep.

Yes, talent-wise it's a fair deal.  However, if you look at the circumstances, it's a real stinker for the Pirates.

The Rays just turned somebody they didn't want and would pay $550K to not keep into 5 years of control of a reliever who's shown he can be successful in the big leagues.

It's irrelevant if Chavez can keep it up.  There were many options available in free agency to play 2B.  Very possibly even Iwamura.  Call Tampa's bluff, offer a minor leaguer you aren't crazy about, demand a 2nd player, or don't make the deal.  Is Neil afraid of signing semi-legitimate free agent talent?

arriba, i'm a heck of a lot older than 30 and i'm still waiting for my power.

(i'd say So's mrs drew but that would be TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE)

If someone on MLBTradeRumors said "We just got a Freddy Sanchez clone for a portion of the price" I would submit that poster was not unbiased.  And, Mr. Nutting, if you insist on posting on that site, use your real name.

I like Chavez, but dealing him for Iwamura is reasonable and will undoubtedly make us a better team in 2010. I'm surprised there is so much discontent with this move as it appears to signal that the Pirates will spend money this offseason in order to improve the immediate outlook of the team.

People seem to be overrating Chavez. It is well known that  small sample sizes can cause reliever performance to drastically fluctuate from year to year and Chavez's peripheral stats don't bode well for his future. Iwamura is a well above average defensive second baseman with excellent on-base skills.

Iwamura's lifetime .355 OBP  will be a welcome addition for a team that finished 15th in the NL with a .318 team OBP. This is a solid addition and Iwamura will hit behind McCutchen to provide the Pirates with an excellent 1-2 combination at the top of the order.

Just my two cents about it all.

We trade our second baseman for Alderson.  Then we have a hole at second, so we trade Chavez for him, we eat the entire contract.

So in my convuluted way, we get Alderson, give up Freddy and Chavez, could easily have gotten Freddy for 2011, and come 2011 we need a second baseman again?

No matter what Chavez does, a few words, band-aid, one year rental, shortsighted in the big scheme of things, but we eat 4.smoething million out of what can be spent.

Brilliant!!

Not to mention PoH liked the guys hair ; }  Kidding PoH, a joke, I don't like the long term part of the deal, we paint ourselves in the corner and then go against our mantra

Expect the worst, hope for the best

Arriba, you are right.

I'm whining.

And they didn't trade Ole Dreamy Eyes. They traded someone who could throw strikes!

GoBucs:  <<It's irrelevant if Chavez can keep it up.  There were many options available in free agency to play 2B.  Very possibly even Iwamura.>> Amen. AMEN.

Wait, where is Mr. Hoss? The Pirates spent more money today. Why isn't he here?

A lot of the comments on this trade are pretty funny. We have been talking for weeks about needing a 2nd baseman and now we have a decent one. And yet, some people are chagrined to trade a relief pitcher straight up for an everyday 2nd baseman. So what if this is just for 1 year? By 2011 there is a reasonable chance a Pirates prospect will be ready for 2nd. If not, you fill the hole for another year somehow.

The complaints about the vast sums the Pirates will pay Iwamura are especially funny.

Chavez was actually a well-below average reliever.  So he will be much easier to replace than a second baseman if the pirates do the hunting.

Hey, All ... Not sure what to say. I think like most, I'm looking forward to the day when we get make a trade and get a guy back who at least hit 35 home runs at AAA minor, as opposed to a lightweight second baseman.

BUT, that being said, yeah, I'm sure Huntington is thinking "we gotta get a proven big league guy," and there was a need at second.

Also, as much as I loved the heat Chavez could bring, and all the experience he got last year ... well, I was getting ready to say he's no Brad Lidge ... but it just goes to show, from season to season, how many late innings guy excel?

Mariano Rivera, Trevor Hoffman, a few more ...

I think I'll take the 600 at bats in this one, too. Plus, with a guy that can play second, it's sortof a save situation.

CA Pirate---just a serious question, what prospect(s) presently in the Pirates's system has/have a reasonable chance of being ready to take over 2nd base in 2011?  Maybe there is, but I am unaware of one.

DMac...you out there?

how about PBP of V?

kidding.  just KIDDING!

(or am i?)

PoH--I hope you know I meant that affectionately.

I'll say this, for those of you who haven't seen this guy, if he can still play 2nd the way he did in the post-season last year, he will be a treat to watch in the field for however long he is here.

BAY!!!!!!

Thanks for talking me off the ledge (or lidge)

I got sweaters older than you kid.

(Guess who said that.  Yep.  Her.)

Didja see we got a one-legged 2Bman tonight?

CA Pirate, and its good to talk baseball

Who are these reasonable prospects that we'll have in 2011?

And blind mans bluff is wait till he's non-tendered and then go sign a second baseman at your prices, hey DY is not the reason why we lost last year

@ Hope

Funny that he's here all the time when the complaints are in full force, but when it's time for him to eat crow he disappears.

It really seems like this trade is designed to potentially groom Andy for 2B. Iwamura can play both 2B and 3B.

My guess is that Iwamura and Andy split time at 2B and 3B until Pedro comes up and then Aki is flipped to a contender who is having an issue at either 2B or 3B.

Considering Aki is about as valuable as Freddy Sanchez (if Aki is indeed healthy) and Sanchez fetched Alderson mid-season, you never know what Iwamura might bring. Probably better than Chavez.

I'm not worried about losing Chavez because, like I mentioned, he didn't have great peripheral stats.

20% line drive rate (worse than average)

40% ground balls / 40% fly balls

.280 BABIP (with a 20% line drive rate one would expect .320)

Higher than average FIP (4.85), Higher than average tRA (4.92)

** Basically, every stat that isn't ERA (4.01) tells you that he benefited from luck or good defense played behind him.

And, apparently Huntington feels like Jesse Chavez was not good enough to be a part of the Pirates long term plans. Who knows, maybe he will turn into a huge stud with Tampa Bay. But right now, it doesn't look that promising.

Chase D'Arnaud could possibly be ready to take over second base in June of 2011. Shelby Ford was thought to be a possibility but has proven to be a dud and probably won't get an opportunity in Pittsburgh.

The Pirates have not yet spoken to Iwamura, but they hope in keeping him longer than a year. "Hopefully, the fans of Pittsburgh make him feel welcome and wanted and pique his interest in having this be more than one year."

-so why not trade for a guy that has more than one year on his contract---or sign a guy for more years.  ( Hello Hudson..not kate)

-so it is up to the fans to keep the second baseman around?

Drew...LMAO...It took me a minute to figure out WTF you were referring to. :-)  

PBP is reserved for baseball only -- with the exception of the very abbreviated Steelers PBP I reserve for my friend in Sacramento who can't watch.

Let me get this straight--NH trades a strong right arm out of the bull pen with 5 years of control for a 2nd baseman with a questionable knee and a $4+million salary who we'll only have for one year? Yeah....we're building for the future. Shades of Littlefield here. Blueprint or none, these kind of moves will eventually cost NH his job and this is a one Pirate fan that will not miss him when he's gone.

I do think it is a horrible trade, just question the 1 year part--if they had info he might be willing to sign an extension that would be better.

Arriba - I know you weren't being mean to me, but thanks for pointing in out just in case.

goduquesne12: EXACTLY

I'm not down on Iwwy Pop. Srsly. We needed a second baseman and I think Andy is more suited to a used car lot than second base. I wanted a REAL second baseman.

It's a sign of how close I am in following Drew out of the optimism camp that my prevalent thought is that Chavey could play for a contender and Iwwy's thinking "so this is what if feels like at the bottom eh?"

As Hopester pointed out in a MUCH earlier post, Chavez said in April: "i know people think i suck.  it's my job to NOT suck."

BAY!!! Latex THAT onto a tee-shirt and start freakin SELLING!!

"It's my job to NOT suck"

as Daryle used to say (where IS he anyway??  Seriously miss him)

YESSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even though Jesse seemed prone to give up the home run, I always thought that JR over used him.

Walk & Wehner always included Chavez in the list of potential future closers ...along with Hanrahan and Meek.

It's not like we only need this new guy for one year because we have someone waiting in the minors.

I am still on board with The Plan, and I'm willing to see NH continue. But in my opinion this organization has saved enough money over the last few years.  So unless they heard something from his agent -like he'll never sign with the Bucs - they should have made a serious play for Orlando Hudson.

There's really only one question to ask as a result of this trade:

What do you think the Pirates will get for him at the trade deadline?  

This move improves the team next year almost for sure.

Now I'd like to see them go after a shortstop (like J.J. Hardy), and then we'd be in business

The Rays had until the day after the World Series to either pick up Iwamura's option — which they did not want to do, as they are going with younger players at second next season — or pay him a $550,000 buyout and let him walk as a free agent.

-------

So why not call Tampa's bluff and wait and see if they release him?

Maybe the Bucs felt the Rays had another trade partner, they didn't want to bid on Iwwy on the free agent market, or maybe they thought he would go back to Japan.

Neal was not out dumpster diving on this one!

I don't have a problem with this trade, would have liked it better if it were the other Florida team, but this will work.

I still think Hart is going to wind up in the bullpen and will be the reliever that takes Jesse's place, but he will have to win that job.

I do believe a corner outfield position might also be on NH's wish list. Don't know if that will come or the rebuild of the bullpen first. Usually the Pen is something they fix at the last minute.

It is all coming together now.  The sheer genius of the "plan" is becoming clearer and clearer with each passing day.  The whole is greater than the some of its parts.  Pirates 2010-  We have arrived.  

I am shocked by the deal.  It really makes you wonder what they have in store for the bullpen.  I am guessing they felt it was easier to get a reliever like chavez on the open market cheaper than it would be to sign a hitter like Iwamura.  There were plenty of pitchers out there at the end of FA last year that signed rather cheap and I'd expect the same this year.  

according to mlb trade rumors.com,  the Cubs, Dodgers and Marlins were other teams rumored to be interested in Iwwy.

ThunderCrack - Yes.  That's what theyre saying.  And since you still live in the Burg(h), if Iwwy Pop leaves after one year, it's YOUR FAULT.

Hey, i live in Florida...not MY fault.

Oh, that's right.  i live 20 minutes from the Trop.  I can go see Chavez help pitch the Rays into the playoffs.  Again.

(was that mean?  I'm really really trying not to be mean.)

Better yet: Pirates 2010- Schedule the Parade.

JAL - you DO think it's a terrible trade?

Perrotto tweated:

I like Jesse Chavez but #Pirates do well to deal him straight up for Aki Iwamura

So it is official. I am on board with this trade ;-)

Bizrow, there's no middle infield prospects on the horizon for 2011 other than Walker. He might be able to put it together by then.

We're waiting to see if one of the guys from the 2008 draft start to distinguish themselves this coming year. Chase D'Arnaud, for example.

Bring Back Bonds - any chance that Shelby Ford had an injury and has a good year in 2010?

TC - "So why not call Tampa's bluff and wait and see if they release him?"

Wasnt going to happen. all over the rumor mill that 2, 3 or as many as a half dozen teams had interest in Iwwy Pop.  So maybe they 'overpaid' to keep the others at bay.

Not an opinion that they SHOULD have, i'm just saying that i dont think Mr Pop would have hit the open market.

Drew, you may also being going to the Trop to see Jesse give up some bombs.

Do you go to many Rays games?

One thing I love about this trade that it has gotten the PBC Blog back to talking about players and baseball.  And everyone seems to be getting along just fine. Unlike the last few days.

I don't understand this move at all.  Chavez showed a lot of promise in the Pen.  The Pirates controlled his rights for years.  Iwamura is coming off an injury, is overpaid, and is only controlled by the team for one year.

This makes no sense whatsoever.  Not sure why I even care anymore.  At least we have the Steelers and the Pens.  All the Pirates are anyomre is something to fill the time (and frustrate me) when the Steelers and Pens aren't playing.

MarkinDallas - splitting time

I'd say its more like Occams Razor principle, the simplest answer/solution is usually the correct one.  We needed a secondbaseman, we had a sure thing with a trade, for a year, and we pulled the trigger.  

Thundercrack - so it is up to the fans to keep the second baseman around?

I thought of that, thought of posting that, but then would be in deep doo-doo for not being a FO supporter, although I am trying.

Bring Back Bonds - re, 2011

The cupboard is bare, Chase is not doing great in the AFL, Shelby was hurt, come the end of this season, we're back where we started, sans Chavez.

goduquense12 - eating crow

Right now, I think everyone is munching on that, as Mike Lange says, you dont know whether to cry or wind your watch.

Lets do the Curley Shuffle!!

Shelby is not done for. He and Chase have this year  to get ready. Maybe Iwwy will be extended and they'll have two years. Really, we can't be further than two years away from one of them or something's wrong with the system as it is constructed.

Just when you think that the Pirates have charted a new course and know what they're doing, they go and do something stupid like this.  What the hell is the point of acquiring Iwamura?  To pay him $4M for one year?  What the hell is the point of such a stop-gap for a non-difference-making above-average player?  They control him for one year and give up a high-ceiling relief pitcher who was their best reliever this year and who they controlled for another 5 years.  WTH???  

I would have MUCH rather have seen what Andy Laroche could do at second, where I think he's much better suited than 3B, especially with Pedro breathing down his back.  And basically Iwamura is just Andy Laroche already at 2B.

This move is ratarded.

<< as Mike Lange says, you dont know whether to cry or wind your watch.>>

I love his sayings. Thanks Biz.

What's done is done.

ok folks.  i gotta hotel to check into.  it's been fun.  at least we had some real baseball to talk about tonight.  and it involved the PBC.  in November.  that's incredible.

TC - i've NEVER been to the Trop.  Shame on me...pretty good BB being played there. But then again...i get to go to McKechnie whenever i wish.

ok, really out.

I went to Tampa Bay online.  Most of the posters there are sorry to see Iwwy go.    He offered to take a pay cut to stay in TB.  

Read that his defense if very good.  So maybe the FO realized that improving the infield defense was a MUST.    

This might make our starting pitching better --and lessen the lose of Chavez in the pen.

I am warming up to it.

NOW you've all done it!  You've got PoH pullilng her hair out in a new avi!  ;-)

leadoff, dumpster diving

What??  The Rays were going to dump this salary no matter what.  NH outbid, maybe, others for one year.  

What a wonderful, outstanding deal that was.  And all those previous trades and we could not get any depth at 2B, and its all your fault, now you got me started.

Who, or Whom will we trade to get a Lefty reliever, or two or three, which we had at the start of last season??

There, now I'm in trouble again, your posts are outrageous, but leadoff??  Keep it up ; }, its good to have the blood pressure soar. Srsly

Well...  interesting trade.  I hate giving up Chavez, but given our history of overusing relievers, there's a good chance he's well on his way to a shoulder injury by now.  But seriously, I wish him well and I sincerely do hate to see him go.  But we did get talent in return.  Not great talent, but talent nonetheless.  I see Iwamura as the poor man's Chone Figgins (good speed, good hitting, patience at the plate vs. decent speed, decent hitting, patience at the plate); I gotta disagree with Doc here:  Iwamura is not a dud (at least his career stats don't support that) and Chavez is not a stud (although he may become one with another good season next year).

Well, there goes my idea of getting a few reclamation projects and seeing who pans out.  Y'all do realize that whoever plays 2B is just keeping the seat warm for Ngoepe, right?  If he can make it to the majors, I'll root loudly for the kid during fielding drills, batting practice, every at-bat, when he's given the job of throwing out the first pitch, and every other time I possibly can.  From what I can gather, he's a great kid writing a great story with the talent given him and the hard work he does.

Defense? In the infield? hmmm, never thought of that....

kidding!

So if in the batting order we have we have Cutch, then Iwwy, then Jones, then that power oufielder we still need, then Doumit, then Milledge, then La Roche then Cedeno in the batting order... hmmmm.

And the very best part is, I love the Bucs, and no screen writer could make this stuff up, this is better than science fiction.  

Oh boy and wait till next week.  PS, I think the ghost of Issac Asimov helps NH write the intros to his trades...

Expect and hope 2013

The way I see it if anyone cares is that we needed a second baseman now!  Not moving Andy but getting him ready in case or when PA does come up.  

As Bring Back Bonds mentioned that no one mentioned was we have Chase and others in the minors who may take over in a year or two.  

Moving Chavez...   If we have others that can step up so be it.  We have aquired a lot of pitchers and they will be used to get what we need to fill the holes now and later.  Was it a good deal?  We will see.

Moving a player off your team is always hard, some like the person, some see more coming from them in potential and some just feel like it losing a friend or moving someone to move them.  It's a hard life out there and these things need to happen all the time. I may not always like it but one has to look at the future as well no matter how hard it can be.

Figured I would drop in and see what you all had to say.Now back to hiding from the negativity and bashing that I have come to loath about this blog.

BenderHeel - Chavez was not even close to being the Pirates' best relief pitcher this year. Hanrahan, Meek and Grabow were all much better.

Jeez. The whole "Don't trade away our great players" thing has really reached absurdity with some people!

If DK was on Madden show I hope they make a podcast available.

I want to hear it.

I know that DK has made the Milwaukee spending case before, but I don't buy it 100%.   They have better players -so spend more money.

They have a very rich owner that will spend...even though he started to gripe this year about the spending by large market teams.  And the stadium revenues might not be the same --the brewers get parking money.  ( I just realized this --I hope this doesn't stop this great baseball talk we got going on)

WOW--Congrats to the posters--this thread has been up just under 3 hours and has over 150 posts--in November!

I like the trade. Everyone complains that the Pirates don't do anything and when they do, people complain. This was one of the Pirates better trades I have seen. Chavez wasn't anything special. Iwamura is at east a serviceable 2b for a team that won't win anything.

I'm kind of sad today.  My "Dreams of Uggla" just went down the drain, like the Russian speaking in the movie Rounders.

I've been harping for a veteran bat.  We've watching Johnny Damon almost destroy the Philles by his tenacity.  We need a bat ike that.  Maybe Iwamura is that guy.  '

There is a reason why O-dog sat the bench in the NLCS.  One of the most overrated players in recent history.  Has all the tools, but this was his best year.

ah--left out one of my famous Nots earlier--I do not think it is a terrible trade.

Well if Iwamura is going to be playing 2B and Cedeno at SS....   Are they really going to keep Alvarez in AAA all year?  If not that means LaRoche is likely to be dealt.  

fyi..when is the last time the Pirates took advantage of a fire sale?

www.baseball-reference.com/.../iwamuak01.shtml

Not sure what to make of this one.  On the surface I think it helps both teams, maybe us a little more than them.  Lost the internet at work just before 4 (CST), and came back to find over a hundred posts and nothing I could really get hold of and say, yeah that's it -- or, oh no why did they do that?  

My first reaction was, well that's the first one -- we need three or four more.  

Is Lincoln ready?  Can Jackson step up?  It will make a lot more sense if we have the inside track on a couple of lefty relievers.  

It's a lot like I felt after Milledge & Hanrahan for Nyjer and Burnett.  Maybe it'll grow on me.  It's good for us because the hole that's being filled is bigger than the one being created, though you do kind of wonder what happens to Young now?  Will they try to convert Dumatrait into a reliever?  Veal?  We need a lefty.

More questions than answers, but I think we got better.  

Mr. C said at the last gathering that the PBC will not hold Pirates back to slow their ML clock.

Pedro, according to Mr. C., is going to some kind of campy thing this winter. I don't think it's the kind with S'mores and bug juice and campfire songs, I think it's the kind where you condition and train and jock stuff like that.

Spring training will tell how much time he  needs in the minors. OK, spring training will indicate, maybe not tell.

I'm all for having him if he's ready. I don't want another three-league wonder affliction like poor Steve Pearce.

to channel Drew. "we're talking Chavez".  

While I do agree with NH on some bullpen parts behind unpredictable from year to year, I'm starting to wonder if he understands that you can't burn these guys out.  

Chavez was on fumes in August.  Jesse good luck in Tampa, you may close for them in 2010 or 2011.

 50-60 appearances Max.  See what Tracy did to Capps, who he completed abused.

TJK33 - I think what happens with LaRoche will largely be determined by what he does coming out of the gate in 2010.

Let's say Andy is hitting .290 with 8 HR the first 2 months of the season and Alvarez is hitting .300 with 12 HR in AAA.

What happens?

At that point do you bring up Alvarez and deal Andy? I can't see that happening. Everyone including Huntington in going to be salivating at a 2B-3B combo like that.

Aki will be traded in that scenario and Andy moved to 2B. Huntington wouldn't have made it publicly known that they asked Andy about learning 2B if it were not a serious possibility.

On the other hand if Andy struggles for 2 months next year and Alvarez is ready, Andy will go to the bench and become a utility guy until he can get his act together.

I really want Veal to be a closer, but he could end up being the next Johan Santana (or maybe not that good), but a good starter off the Rule V draft.

I give NH credit there.  He has done really well with that.

POH- Shush.  Its the Arizona Sports Institute, where Brian Roberts and ... Chase Utley work out.

Missing in the whole debate is that the WS isn't even over and the Pirates have already increased the payroll by over $4M!

My take is that a solid everyday fielder/hitter is a lot harder to find than a one inning relief pitcher.

Iwwy Pop is "only" 30 and if he proves to be completely healed and a valuable asset, he may be offered an extension.

For those claiming that FA was the way to go, there are two problems with that route that have been mentioned many times before:

1. Who, in their prime and of similar production would choose the Pirates?

2. How much over market value would they have to go to convince someone to do #1?

This was a guaranteed acquisition at a very "reasonable" price without having to deal with either of the above scenarios.

PoH said -

Mr. C said at the last gathering that the PBC will not hold Pirates back to slow their ML clock.

-------------------

I know Mr. C said that at the gathering, but at the risk of making you completely turn to the darkside and tear your hair out, I have to call BS on that.

But please don't hate him for this one little fib. Players occasionally file a grievance with the MLBPA if that happens, because it's against the rules. However, it happens all the time.

Perrotto recently reported that a source inside the Pirates told him that Alvarez, Tabata and Lincoln would not be brought up to Pittsburgh before June "under any circumstances".

As everyone knows, I am more than willing to take the FO at its word on many things. But when there is convincing evidence to the contrary and a real reason that they would not tell the full truth, I reserve the right to be objective and call it as I see it.

Mark, it's all right. I'm (less all the time) hopeful, not dinghy.

WSB - you shush! Ha! I knew it had a name beyond a jock campy thingy. Thank you!

Anyone else here feel sorry for Iwwy? Is it wrong that I do? That's the biz baby, in the Series one year, two years later... well, the stadium's pretty.

This trade is basically Chavez for Alderson.

Losing Freddie and getting Iwwy is even.

I don't know of any team on the planet that would not take Alderson over Chavez

Neal you are a genius!

Perrotto reporting Tabata, D'Arnaud and Moskos are going to be featured in the AFL Rising Stars Showcase game.

I have to say I'm really looking forward to seeing Tabata and possibly Alvarez next year. In fact, it's looking more and more likely with this Aki trade that it will happen.

If everyone is healthy - a big if - that would mean Cedeno is the only non-high upside player of the entire position players.

This trade and being a PBC fan reminds me of the song "And a three hour tour"  I can't applaud a one year pickup, once again, naturally.

This place, for a big part was hard on Chavez, much as we were with Nyjmo, then through the course of the year, we went (or I did), hey there might be something there..

One year, well its going to take longer than that.

But ok, exactly where do I reserve the WS tickets?  I'm not paying till 2013 though.  Iwwy will be a short memory in the long journey by then, I'd bet

Chavez on the other hand....

JAL - I must say hearing you say it was a bad trade - at least this early - seemed out of character for you ... the dreaded invisible NOT has struck again! LOL!

and if anyone recalled I do believe that FC itimated that Moskos could make the bullpen this year?

leadoff - Exactly. Now we just need a right fielder to provide an option and bridge the gap to Tabata and we'll be all set.

Mark - we won't be set if said outfield is acquired for Duke, Maholm, Ohlendorf and Jones!  Watch what you wish for!

WSB: I recall the same thing.

I don't see how anyone can claim Iwwy Pop is overpaid.  I think Mark proved that his whatsiwhosit and his mean divided by his hits and his body fat prove he is underpaid at 4+ mil.

Mark, buddy, I'm OK with this deal.  But if their plan is what you predicted--to have Iwwy and Andy flip-flop positions during the season on some kind of regular basis we really will be the laughingstock.  That's little league.  

Back me up on this, leadoff.

Ants do their thing ==============

I do think that Moskos could have some really flifthy stuff on lefties (think Marte..) if he wasn't picked #3 overall, he would have been a great sign.

leadoff--just when I was thinking you were joining the rational world, you have to go off on that "Neal is a genius" again.   Neal may be a genius based on IQ, this trade may be the right move, but neither of those mean Neal is a good GM.   Jury's still out, my friend, until they start putting some W and L's on the board.

with that new avatar, we need to rename PoH.

Plenty of Angst?

or to keep the PoH thingee...Pulling out Hair?

i dunno.  neither seem quite right.

Any other ideas?

PoH, equating the loss of Chavez with any of those players is a bit of a stretch, no?

The only way that I would advocate trading any of those would be Duke for a good shortstop.

It will be interesting if Huntington can get JJ Hardy from the Brewers. I'm not saying it would take Duke to get him. It might, though.

I have also heard that the Pirates may approach Duke about an extension this off season. There's no word on when that might happen or if he would want to. If Duke would not want to extend, then of course he would be trade bait at some point in the next 1.5 years.

leadoff -- Chavez for Alderson?

That may eventually prove to be the effect, but they were two separate trades and it remains to be seen that Freddy for Iwamura is a wash.  

Be careful or NH may accuse of trying to spin things a bit, eh?

i googled PoH for some ideas (aren't i pathetic?) and i got:

Personal Oral Hygiene

Profitability of Hawaii

Project Open Hearts (hmmm...no...too much like Plenty of Hope)

Power on Hours (I have NO IDEA what that means)

"pOH is sometimes used as a measure of the concentration of hydroxide ions, OH−, or alkalinity."  Alkalinity.  hmmm, THAT'S interesting.  

Pilots Operating Handbook

Pursuit of Happiness (no freaking WAY)

Pontiac Osteopathic Hospital (may need one)

Plane of Hate (now we're ONTO something!!!)

Player Owned Houses

Plains of Havoc (Havoc, yes, but Plain? NO WAY)

Past Obstetric History (eeewwww!)

Potential of Hydroxide (now if it were PERoxide...)

Pat on Head

Peace Out Homey (absolutely not)

ok, any votes?

- Plenty of Drew