Post-Gazette beat writers Dejan Kovacevic and Chuck Finder blog about the Pittsburgh Baseball Club.
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Firsties?
JAL,
You are my stats guru!!
Can you find for me what Zach Duke's ERA was last year with Jack and Freddie playing middle infield—vs—Duke's ERA after July 25?
I think it would show how much losing an above average double play combination affected our ground-ball-throwing All Star pitcher!
We just can't throw "anybody" out there with Duke and Maholm in the rotation!
Denery
You are indeed at the top :)
Groat--See what I can do
Graot
Dukes ERA in April was 2.43, May 2.98, June 3,83, July 3.67--all pre trade
Post trade August was 5.76 and Sept 5.34 and 1 October start at 9
"if they do nothing, then they are sending a clear message that they don't care about winning."
Leadoff,
That may be the way you interpret doing nothing but I don't agree at all. I'd rather they not sign one year stop gaps to contracts like Littlefield did, or long term contracts to the Meares types. If we can't sign impact players to long term contracts, I'm okay with no free agent signings. Let's let the youngsters play and the ones that can't cut it should be let go or sent down.
If you don't agree with their plan, that's fine. But saying you don't think they don't care about winning because they might not do what you want them to do just doesn't sound right to me.
I advocate buying a veteran second baseman that is effective at the plate. I don't advocate LaRoche moving to second. I say leave him there until Pedro is ready - be that June 2010 or April 2011. After that, he can hit the road.
Telling someone on a struggling team to learn a new position is "make do" to me when there is money to buy a replacement. NMMD.
"You mean besides his .234 / .277 / .459 / .736 performance in 2009?"
- Are those Jack Wilson's splits from 2009? Maybe Adam LaRoche (when he was with the Bucs)? Freddy?
Maybe the 25 HRs (50XBH (25 HRs, 21 2Bs, 4 3Bs)) and 66 RBI would help for an offense that was pathetic (last in Rs in MAJORS, 3rd to last in HRs IN THE MAJORS, 3rd to last in BA IN THE MAJORS, & 3rd to last in OPS in MAJORS)? Or the fact that in a 7 year career (so far, and he is only 29) he's avg. 21 HRs a season? I would bring up Doumit, but Zisk already did. And they are completely comparable, except Blalock has proven himself over 7 years (despit injuries in 07 and 08), Ryan can't stay healthy to play in 1 season (1 season of more than 100 (116) games so far in 5 seasons).
"Or the fact that he has been unable to play a complete season due to injuries since 2006 including in 2009?"
- Again, please stop talking about Jack and Freddy.
Let's move on and talk about Hank. In 06 Blalock played 152 games (those injuries must've been a killer to hold him out of 10 games that year). 07 and 08 were the only seasons he didn't play at least 123 games (and 02, looks like end of season callup only 49 games). In 07 and 08, when he did play he hit .293/.358/.543 and .287/.338/.508 (respectively) with 10 HRs 33 RBI (07) & 12 HRs 38 RBI (08). Gee, I wish he would hit .250/.299/.414 in his shortened seasons, oops, sorry those were Ryan Doumit's from 09. How did they get in there?
"Or the fact he can no longer play 3rd due to his shoulder injuries?"
- Good. I only want him at 1st. Um. In case you didn't kno, there's a guy named Pedro Alvarez who will be playing 3rd. But...SHHHHH, don't tell anyone. It's a secret.
"Or the 108 K's in only 123 games last season?"
- O No. Ryan Howard and Mark Reynolds strike out 200 times a season and no one cares. Not saying tha the'll put up 40 Dingers, but 25-30 in 130-140 games with 150 Ks (maybe more, maybe less), if you can't live with that, then you have problems. Power Hitters K. When Pedro comes up, he's going to K. A lot. So I'm just warning you now.
And, I never said I wanted a 1 year contract for him. I want a 3 or 4 year contract (remember he's 29, and has played for 7 seasons prior and has avg'd 20 HRs/season during that time, not 29 and trying to complete his 1st playing a much tougher position to stay healthy).
But....
I'm not knowledgeable. So what do I know.
(all stats found on ESPN.com)
On the subject of moving Andy LaRoche to 2B:
While I realize he'd have some time to learn the new position in spring training, wouldn't it be a very similar thing to what they did iin 2009 with Delwyn Young except a guy with less of a batting potential?
If Andy's defense at 2B is stellar and Alvarez is ready for the ML club right out of ST, maybe that's okay. But if Pedro needs some time - maybe even a whole year in AAA - then Bucs end up plugging in another stop gap like Walker at 3B for the time being and - POOF! it's "make-do" all over again.
At least that's how it seems to me.
I copied and pasted my last post from the morning thread for the benefit of Hostage.
I don't understand why people in favor of the blue print (and I am one of them) think that it has to be done at the expense of the ML club. Both can be nursed back to health at the same time. Most the emphasis so far has been on the minors, but both can be taken care of at the same time.
I believe that the minors are in much better shape then they were 3 years ago, and they can help the ML club in more ways then just advancing players.
PoH -
I swear I wrote my post before yours appeared.
I was not trying to suck up.
One of the links this morning was to a Q&A with Tony Sanchez. He mentioned the talent in the Pirates minor league system. I've noticed over the last year that other minor leaguers have made similar comments. My question are: Are they really seeing talent or think their teammates are talented? Do they really see Pirate minor leaguers comparing favorably to the talent they see on the teams they play against?
I'm just not sure how well these minor leaguers evaluate talent? Any thoughts?
Well, POH,
I tend to agree with you, but I have a hunch about Andy. I think, with some good coaching (Garcia, anyone? - check out Seattle, while he was coaching there...) he might just bloom at 2nd. I like his attitude better than Mr. Uggla's. If not (I'm not always right!) then I acquiesce.
Frank...Frank.... I know you lurk on this site..... put down the pizza and wipe the pepperoni from your mouth.
How do you respond to leadoff and I about having an obligation to put a descent product on the field now...while trying to build?
Roberto, why so angry? If you think that Blalock is coming here, fine.
Blalock may indeed come here, in about six or seven years, when he needs his retirement supplemented.
IT'S A CULTURE OF WINNING!
Srsly.
I just had a stray thought:
Why not move Andy to SS, and Cedeno to 2nd Base? We already know that Andy has good reflexes and a fine arm. Cedeno would certainly be an improvement defensively over DY. Andy's offensive production would be more than acceptable for a Short Stop. (If someone wants to school me in the fine points I may be missing, I'll be glad to listen!)
The problem I see with bringing Alverez too soon is that people have him being inserted into the clean-up spot right off the get. Leaving Andy at 3B where he has proven capable and inserting some power at 2B and RF with Uggla and Hermedia will allow more time to let Alverez seasion and not have to carry the load when he gets here. Expecting too much out of him apon arival could be damaging.
BFD, I never said or implied that your father did not teach you some manners, what I am saying is that you did not listen.
HEAR YE HEAR YE
Next gathering Special Guest
Lou DePaoli
Executive Vice president and Director of Media Marketing
Date: December 5th.
Complete information to follow
The who's on firsat and elsewhere quetion was asked and answered at the gathering and posted on the blog.
The locks as of todat are clutch, ryan, andy in the field and ollie and juke and paul with the ball and that is about it.
Cain, Just not sure Andy has the speed to make the plays at short stop?
Sometimes the statements on this blog baffle me.
If you take your car to your mechanic, and he tells you that you need brake pads, do you ask him if spark plugs will work? Because you have spark plugs. He says you don't need new spark plugs. You tell him to try the spark plugs where the brake pads are, because that's what you have.
To me, that scenario is not much different than you guys closing your eyes and throwing a dart at the roster on the wall, and saying "that's the guy that could play second base."
Look at the teams that made the playoffs. Tell me if they took a random dude off their 40 man and taught him a new position in August. That's my opinion.
JJ,
My question about the gathering is if FC indicated if he lurks here, does he post, has he considered posting, Is FC Hostage?
I'm Glad You Didn't See Roberto, or You Would Have Traded Him in '59
Blalock has been injured for 3 straight seasons: see a trend?
Garrett Jones showed last year he is very much below average as a right fielder——which makes sense since his whole Minor League career he played at 1st Base until he came to thee Pirates——but he could be an average to above average fielding 1st baseman.
Blalock has played only 71 games at 3B the last three seasons including ONE last year, so obviously he can't help us at 3B. And last season he spent almost as many games at DH as he did at 1B, the only position he could play for the Pirates. He couldn't even be a regular starter at 1B for the Rangers, so why should we sign him for 3 years as a regular 1B for us?
His on-base-plus-Slugging % was below .800, not the ideal 3-4-5-6 hitter.
And . . the jury is still out on whether Messiah Pedro Alvarez will end up at 3B or 1B.
Blalock made $6.2 million last year. How much of a cut do you think he will take? I'm not ready to dedicate $12 mill for 3 years (at least!) for a below average fielding 1B, with a subpar OPB, when he might block Alvarez!
Hi, JJ,
I was thinking about that speed issue with Andy, too. It occurred to me that maybe Andy's range might be aided by a good 3rd Baseman, allowing him to patrol a smaller area - with a good arm to make up for a lack of speed. Can you, or someone, tell me the consensus opinion: who needs to be faster, and who needs to have more range - SS or 2B? (I'm just trying to keep a good guy around a little longer.)
17 years folks, as we all painfully know, I'm all for throwing Andy at 2B, he will not cut it as a 3B hitter,
Heck, if we can get internal improvement from this group that may help us in 2,3,4 years, I'm all for it, teach him to pitch if thats what needs done.
Regardless of what we'd like to think, there is no quick fix with this ballclub and two ok drafts do not make a minor league system powerhouse
@ JJ
"BFD, I never said or implied that your father did not teach you some manners, what I am saying is that you did not listen."
----------
Burp......what's that...I didn't hear you.... I was too busy chomping on my PIZZA
Biz - it was more than the drafts that helped stock the farm. Trades did more farm filling than anything else.
Also, I don't think Pedro is classified as just "OK."
>>Sometimes the statements on this blog baffle me.<<
Sometimes?
Lots here seem set on moving Andy 2B. By that thinking, why not train him to play a corner outfield spot and also pitch left handed out of the bullpen and maybe be a fifth starter. Then the Bucs don't have to buy any FAs.
I'm all for us getting a good Free Agent, if we can. I'm only saying that I like Andy - I get the impression sometimes that I'm alone in this regard - I want to keep him around and find the position that suits him best - that lets him shine.
Heck! Noboody's born to play only one position. When we used to play pick-up as kids, we'd play any position that was open. Remember, Tim Wakefield was an Infielder in the Minor Leagues.
G-Man: I know you are skeptical, but there is no way that Lil' Stonehenge is anything but an upgrade at 2B over Delwyn even before ST starts.
My thoughts are that Diaz/Jaramillo are not a bad tandem with Jaramillo an upgrade over Doumit defensively. Package Doumit and Duke for whatever we can get - preferrably some immediate on-field help. I really do not believe that Doumit will improve significantly either at the plate or behind the plate.
Jose
9
blogs.tampabay.com/.../rays-working-on-iwamura-deal.html
The rays may be "on the verge" of trading Iwamura. No team is given, but it is said that it is not the cubs or dodgers. I personally don't think it will be the pirates, but would like the move if it was?
Anyone else have an opinion?
terbear, I will post instructions for questions to be asked.
I can answer something for you: FC has posted here and he posts under his bitht name.
PoH - Trades picked up bodies, "maybes", other than Alderson, who folks are split on, there are no world beaters there, no projected superstars, and am not talking about the Nady trade, that was a good one.
Regarding Alvarez, ok, very good prospect, but one no brainer pick, some clubs have several of those type of prospects. Tabata is hitting nothing but line drives per someone on ESPN, but there a others impressing there too.
Where would this minor league system rate? Maybe middle of the pack? Maybe a bit lower? Granted, its better than what was inherited, but thats faint praise. Its not at the point where we're going to just grind out above major league players every year.
Or are we declaring that building the minor league system has been a success? I can't go there, sorry. And now we suggest we spend what we have.
Hey, you gotta admit this discussion is better than 2010 salary levels.
================================
I never said he was coming here. I said I want Neal to go sign him. He is not a 1 year reclamation project, which is why I want to give him a 3 or 4 year deal.
Hank Blalock is not a Pat Meares or Derek Bell or Raul Mondesi or Jeremy Burnitz, and I've made the case for it (using facts, not strictly my opinion), yet I get told I'm not a knowledgeable baseball fan.
So that's how I responded.
21
______________________
I never said I was not in favor of their plan, in fact I am one of the biggest boosters for the plan.
Nothing that I want to do in this off season would change the plan, I don't know what your looking at. How would what I want to do constitute changing the Plan?
Doing nothing is not trying to win IMO, that does tell me they could care less about winning this year.
I know they don't have middle infield prospects anywhere near ready, so how could going out and buying a couple of players for 2 years hinder the plan?
All it can do is give us a chance to win that we don't have now.
It all comes down to winning or having a chance to win now vs thinking we are going to win on some mythical date in the future if we do nothing.
I will take my chances with doing something.
What is a bitht name?
G-Man - Andy
Exactly, teach him to sing the narional anthem if that helps our club, and we are always told, well we will teach this fellow, help him out. Ok, make Andy into something we need.
Spike, My thought is the short stops have more speed.
PoH -- Andy does have a smidgen of experience at 2B -- 3 MLB games with the Dodgers and 8 games in the minors, and evidently played the position when he was younger.
I see the situation like this, though. I like Cedeno at SS, and it would help a lot if he continues to hit -- actually if his hitting would improve, but given the resources available I'd rather replace Cedeno than Andy. Cedeno looks like a guy you want coming off the bench, and could probably play 2B, SS, and 3B. As a utility infielder, I'm not sure of Andy's range at SS, although he sure does have the arm for it! (In fact, if his hitting would go up to say .275 20 HR give him a shot in right.)
I'm more confident that Andy will improve as a hitter and show more power than I am that Cedeno will do the same. Having Pedro at 1st and Jones in the OF would be a defensive liablility. Help in the minors at SS and 2B seems to be a ways away (of course anything can happen) and I want to use some the available money on pitchers. So, while it's not the ideal, it seems like a better solution than bringing in two middle infielders or a second baseman and keeping Cedeno.
CA Pirate
Minor League players are like everyone else, some may be better at evaluating skill than others and we do not know who is better at that. We also know that skill in the minors do not always come to the majors (JVB for example).
It is better if someone like Sanchez thinks his teammates have skill. He played on a successful college team so he some idea what winners play like.
Many pro baseball people think the Pirates have more skill in the minors than have had for many years. We just have to wait and see how it translates to the majors. We heard a lot about Cutch and he came up and did quite well so we can only hope others will do the same.
Hopeful One,
I understand your comments about LaRoche.
Here's the deal: Andy at 3B hit .258 with 12 HR and 64 RBIs. He has a .230 lifetime Major League batting average. That won't cut it as a Third Baseman.
So we have to project: is he going to turn into Ryan Zimmerman eventually at 3B (Great field, Great Stick for Nationals) . . . or is there another place where his offensive numbers won't be so far below average.
No one has thrown darts; Andy LaRoche played some 2B in the Minors and he has been in the infield somewhere his whole life.
Can he turn the double play? Does he have enough range for 2B? Those are the questions one weighs versus will he be more the run producer that the Pirates sure could use at 3B.
When we factor in that Pedro looms on the horizon as our 3B hope for the longterm, arriving mid-next season or the following season, it seems judicious to see if LaRoche can be an above average fielding 2B, where we have a big hole right now and where LaRoche's numbers won't be terribly out of line even is he does not improve. If he continues to improve numbers at 2B, all the better!!
G-man
I may be mistaken, but it was my impression that the team had already asked Andy about the move, that the idea didn't start on this blog.I am OK with Andy trying it in ST, I'm Ok with acquiring a 2b if it doesn't cost prospects like Alverez, Alderson, etc. But if we acquire a 2b, I want it to be someone who has 2-3 decent years left so we can develop the 2b of the future. The vision of Jack Morris hangs over any pending transaction, FC realizes it, he said as much at the gathering.
Biz always the sad sack, Clemente got into the hall of fame hitting line drives.
A bitht name is something given by aliens from Morg to their pets :)
Radio, you can take it to the bank the pirates are not going to trade pedro fo a second baseman
Biz - I didn't say the farm is fully stocked. I believe this administration - Neal Huntington - did more to put talent in the farm system that his predecessor. Again, faint praise of comparison, but I think they're doing it correctly for long term success. Baseball analysts that don't lay awake at night thinking that somewhere Bob Nutting is laying awake thinking up new ways of sticking it to them, have said the Pirates have a workable plan, in its current form.
That doesn't mean I think they're done, or have done everything that needs to be done, or can stop now and rest, or anything like that. It's a good start.
What if we bought a seasoned, talented second baseman this year to hold down the job until our prospects are ready, and Pedro came up in May, if he were ready?
@ JAL: Is Frank C really a Sith, then?
10
"I'm Glad You Didn't See Roberto, or You Would Have Traded Him in '59
Blalock has been injured for 3 straight seasons: see a trend?"
- He played 123 games this season (coming off of 2 seasons prior not playing 70). He is only 29 years old (will be 29 in November). He has avg.'d 20 HRs a season over his career. He's been to 2 All-Star games. Does anyone on the Pirates current MLB 25-man (ending 09) give you that (proven...not 1/2 a season)?
"Garrett Jones showed last year he is very much below average as a right fielder——which makes sense since his whole Minor League career he played at 1st Base until he came to thee Pirates——but he could be an average to above average fielding 1st baseman."
- Tabata is the future RF for this club. Blalock plays 1st. Jones comes off the bench and spells Blalock and Tabata when they need days off or due to injuries. I've stated my intentions before. Garrett Jones is not an everyday major leaguer, but he looks like one hell of an option off the bench.
"Blalock has played only 71 games at 3B the last three seasons including ONE last year, so obviously he can't help us at 3B. And last season he spent almost as many games at DH as he did at 1B, the only position he could play for the Pirates. He couldn't even be a regular starter at 1B for the Rangers, so why should we sign him for 3 years as a regular 1B for us?"
- Don't want him to play 1 game at 3rd. I said this in my earlier response.
"His on-base-plus-Slugging % was below .800, not the ideal 3-4-5-6 hitter."
- He has a career .269/.329/.465/.794. .06 below .800 for a career coming off 2 injured seasons. I'll take him in the #3 spot.
"And . . the jury is still out on whether Messiah Pedro Alvarez will end up at 3B or 1B."
- Pedro plays 3rd. No questions. He does not move. Mgt. has given no indication that they want to move him. You're going off all scout speculation that he'll need to be moved. There never was a trial, hece, the jury cannot be out.
"Blalock made $6.2 million last year. How much of a cut do you think he will take? I'm not ready to dedicate $12 mill for 3 years (at least!) for a below average fielding 1B, with a subpar OPB, when he might block Alvarez!"
- I want 3 years, about 25 (26-28 if you go with the 4 year) million, avg. of 8.33 million/year. And again, I want him for 1B, which in no way blocks Pedro (playing 3B).This is a guy that can be a LEGIT upgrade to the lineup (again, not Raul Mondesi or Derek Bell). They need to go out and get him.
If there's any other takers, feel free, b/c I will argue to the death that this club should sign Hank Blalock.
Thanks for the stats on Zach Duke.
I have always been a defense first kind of guy.
Duke's stats would seem to indicate that when our middle infield defense went from well above average (leading Majors in double plays at time of trades) to well below average (Cedeno did not make plays that Jack made and Young/Vasquez at 2nd——while I applaud the attempt——was a Major League embarrassment) . . . well, an All Star pitcher in the 1st Half saw his ERA soar when ground balls he continued to throw were not turned into outs or doubleplays!
Chicks love the long ball: DEFENSE wins games!!
PoH
I just think anything spent on FA this season would be a waste of resources, although I do grant you that it may turn into a buyers market, al la was it 2003 with Reggie Sanders and Lofton. But even then that would be a one year deal. The downside of a potential buyers market is that not many players will lock in for 2 or more years, one and out.
Ok we sign some one year guy that makes the difference that instead of 99 games, we only lose 90. Would that make us feel better? Not me really, and I know folks are talking about signing leftys, but there isn't much out there.
If Andy is willing to try 2nd, first it shows some character that not everyone at that level has, second, what can it hurt?
Maybe you and I have a different idea on what we think their plan is.
==============================================
Andy's career:
35 Games in 07 with LA - .226/.365/.312/.677
76 Games in 08 (27 w/ LA, 49 w/ Pit) - .166/.252/.256/.508
150 Games in 09 with Pit - .258/.330/.401/.731
Because 261 games (over 3 seasons) is what makes a career. So judge Andy LaRoche on his 261 game career, not the fact that he's gotten better as he's spent more time in the majors (markedly better).
Ignore the marked improvement he made in all categories offensively, as well as defensively, if you want to in his 1st full major league season as a starter.
Andy doesn't need to be moved to 2nd. Leave him at third and let the chips fall where they may. When Pedro is ready for 3rd, they'll figure out what to do. Until then, Andy stays as the 3rd baseman.
Jose--I think FC's bitht name is "What's Wrong with You People."
@WhatsWrongWithYouPeople: That would stun me, a little, if we got Iwamura. Not in a great way. Very surprising, however.
Biz - I respectfully disagree with you on the importance of a good second baseman this year, vs. the "let's try this guy." It's not the only piece I advocate, however, and I'm looking at winning more than 90.
I vote to buy a two year second baseman, more if it is worth it.
Pedro needs to do two thinhs before they think he is ready:
fullfill his off season program and hit big time. I doubt he starts up the the big leaguers.
Andy should be at third.
You have Andy at third and someone who can play second pretty good then my sha rona will do fine in between them.
"Jose--I think FC's bitht name is 'What's Wrong with You People.'"
Darn, you caught me. I was trying to find out how you guys felt about Iwamura before we finalized the deal.
_______________________
This is kind of an overview of it the way I see it.
The plan is pretty simple to me, build from the bottom. Trade away the chips that it takes to make the entire system stronger in the future.
Bring in as much talent both for the major league team and the minor league system as possible. Draft wisely. All of this ASAP.
I would not doubt someone could add something to my overview, but it would only be adding, not changing.
If they are working with another plan, I have no idea what it could be.
Jose, as my grandpap use to say to other he childs, Did that make you feel better?
Biz
Ok we sign some one year guy that makes the difference that instead of 99 games, we only lose 90.
_______________________________________
We could have Jones, Uggla and Alvarez in the 3-5 holes in about a half a year. With McCutcheon and Milledge ahead of them and Andy LaRoach or Doumit in the six hole the other in the 7 hold, we go from a weak hitting lineup to one with a lot of potential with one move.
This lineup does not look like a lineup that is going to lose 90 games, compare it to the rest of the National League, and I think it would stack up pretty good. Also the the one move is for a 2 year player.
That gives us a couple more years for development of our minor league players, it works perfectly with the plan, not against it.
Uggla would not be easy to get, that is the catch.
Jack Wilson played in 75 of the 102 games he was with the Pirates this season before being traded (74%).
Freddy Sanchez played in 86 of the 102 games he was with the Pirates this season before being traded (84%).
Zach Duke's ERA jumping 2 FULL runs is not only attributed to having different MIers (if at all). Plus, they didn't play together at least 25% of the time when they were here (with Jack only playing in 74%). How can you explain that? Would his ERA have been less than 2 if they stayed healthy?
One statement I have to particularly address is, "well, an All Star pitcher in the 1st Half saw his ERA soar when ground balls he continued to throw were not turned into outs or doubleplays!"
I believe the Bucs had the best fielding % in the majors (or top 2 or 3 for the entire season...yes, even without Jack and Freddy). Turning a few less DPs has nothing to do with fielding % (you're talking as if Jack and Freddy left, and every groundball from there after to a MIer wasn't fielded). Do we even know for sure that the rate of DPs turned went down after the trades? I'm sorry, but your analysis of "Cedeno didn't make the plays that Jack made" and "Young/Vasquez was a Major League embarrassment" aren't going to cut it for me.
(JAL, do you know how many DPs were turned in the 1st 102 games this season and then after?)
Zach Duke's August and September ERA problems are far deeper than having Jack and Freddy up the middle.
Respectful disagreement is a good thing, hoping to win 90 games this year, there is another big thing we disagree on.
90 wins is at least three years away, I don't think we're done deconstructing what we have in Pittsburgh yet, so there may be more holes to fill before spring training/April.
I still say move Andy, it isn't going to matter next year
POH and G-man: Re Andy at 2nd
Just my opinion, but I do not think moving Andy to 2nd is so much of a "make do" solution. Andy was actually mentioned as worthy to be considered for a gold glove. DY and GG have never been mentioned in the same paragraph let alone sentence. Andy is a good fielder, and if his bat keeps improving from the end of last year, he projects to be a good 2nd baseman offensively. And just as an example of other teams moving good players around, the Red Sox moved Kevin Youkilis from third to first when they got Mike Lowell in the trade with Becket, so even good teams do it. Granted 1st is an easier transition than 2nd, but I think Andy is athletic enough to make the switch. The other successful 3rd to 2nd swap that Pirates fans should remember is Scrap Iron moving from 3rd to 2nd after Mad Dog was brought on.
I do agree on your point of not rushing Pedro. If they do move Andy, I hope they can sign someone like a Joey Bats type who can play 3rd reasonably (and a few other positions) so Pedro is not rushed.
Put me in the try Andy at 2nd camp. And send Carlos to wherever Andy lives BEFORE spring training. If he can't do it, he can't do it, but it's worth a try.
And Blalock for 3 years and 25 mil is a horrible, horrible idea IMO. This franchise, and I mean this sincerely, can't tie up 25 mil over 3 years in a guy with an injury history like Blalock's. Even though he may have appeared in 123 games this past season, he only started 67 if I am reading his stat sheet right.
You put a true star secondbaseman on the team and the team is changed.
it will take one guy who comes to bat and drives in a run when it is needed to transform the mental make up of the organization.
Does the team that wants to rid itself of Uggla need a catcher?
I would prefer signing a secondbaseman over trading for one.
i think if you are going the trade route for an allstar guy you would want him signed for four years, he carries his shoulders straight until we see the prospects really ready.
www.youtube.com/watch
I'm Glad You Didn't See Roberto, or You Would Have Traded Him in '59—Blow It Up, Boom!
Holy Cow!! I was against signing Blalock at $4 mill a year for 3 years ($12 million total) and you want to give him a raise to $8.33 million ($25 million over 3 years!)
Because of injuries, Blalock is not a National League player. He was a DH and a fill-in at 1B for 60 games (he couldn't beat out a rookie to start at 1st for the Rangers.)
He has averaged 15 homeruns a year for the last 4 seasons.
Garrett Jones had almost as many homeruns and RBIs last year in half a season. They are the same age!
His career numbers are inflated by two great years he had 5 and 6 seasons ago. Those seasons have not been repeated since.
His On Base Plus Slugging last season was .736. That's Ronny Cedeno-esque.
I wouldn't offer him $12 Million over 3 years, much less $25 million.
I WANT the Front Office to open their pockets, let the moths out, and sign some players to make our Major League team strong! This would not be the right sign. His numbers are more comparable to Jeremy Burnitz!
64 games at 1st Base and good numbers from 5 and 6 seasons ago do NOT project Blalock to be an answer to the Pirates' problems. Certainly not at $25 million!
I would ok the idea of andy at second if it is not a during the season project. he would have to get himself his new spikes before the season starts.
Why Didn't
This is easier
In 74 games Wilson was involved in 64 DP
In 85 games Sanchez was involved in 63 DP
In 42 games Cedeno was involved in 27 DP
In 53 games at 2nd Young was involved in 36 DP
Conclusion--Wilson was the DP glue
Pedro's conditioning and defense are going to be key - both have some room for improvement. I think he's going to hit for power, but maybe not for average at first. I don't see him coming until June.. and maybe some of that has to do with how Andy starts the season.
Andy's best suited to fill in at 3rd til Pedro's ready. We need a quality middle infield - not a middle infield that McGuyver put together in the last 10 minutes of the show with miscellaneous parts found in the clubhouse..
Cedeno is a short term answer as well. Problem is with all this newfound depth in the organization, middle infield is pretty weak.
And Blalock for 3 years and 25 mil is a horrible, horrible idea IMO. This franchise, and I mean this sincerely, can't tie up 25 mil over 3 years in a guy with an injury history like Blalock's.
===============================
But we can sign a guy to a 3 year/11 million dollar contract after 1 season of 116 games and count on him to be the main force in the lineup (when it's clearly evident that if the wind blows hard enough, he'll injure something)?
That sounds like a better idea.
My biggest problem with singing FA's to fill holes is that I do not see anyone on the current list of FA's that excites me. Definitely nobody I want them to sign for multiple years. Maybe when the projected "non-tendered" mother lode is added to the list it will change my mind.
Did you ever hear the story of how they used to catch monkeys in the Congo? They would drill a hole in a tethered coconut just barely big enough to get the monkey's hand in and then fill the coconut with attractive smelling food. The monkey would arrive, smelling his favorite food and reach into the coconut to get his food. When he would make a fist to gather the food, he couldn't get his hand out, and he would be captured because he was too stubborn to release the food.
I'm Glad You Didn't See Roberto, or You Would Have Traded Him in '59—Blow It Up, Boom! It's OK to be wrong! It's OK to express a differing opinion without telling everyone else they are wrong. You get an idea here and get all worked up, defending yourself proudly, even when your statistics don't match your argument. Just because YOU say it doesn't make it right. Differing opinions can be right! That's why they are opinions.
I'll bet you were in the band when you were in high school, and your grandma told you that "everybody in the band was out of step but you!"
Why Didn't I--You'll have to talk to Neal and FC about that. You won't find a post on here by me that advocated doing that. But if that's what they are paying Ryan and that's what you are referring to, yeah, it's a better idea than Blalock for 25 now. I think that core idea went out the window with Nate.
Pgh NH
You have it--this is one of the weakest FA groups ever.
Did anyone see the report on MLBTradeRumors that the Bucs and Braves are talking about Matt Capps?
Pgh_fan_in_NH - re - I do not see anyone on the current list of FA's that excites me.
Exactly, for example second base, who is there that 1. we could afford, 2. would want to come here 3. we would actually want for more than one year? Hudson? See No 1 and No 2, DeRosa? See same numbers
We can want and want all we want, but if there is nothing out there, well, then I spose its pretty hard to get.
And trading, to me, and again what the heck do I know, but its totally illogical to spend two years trading your chips to obtain talent and then go and trade that talent (prospects) for pretty much exactly what you had.
That mates, is truly the Curly Shuffle...
@What's wrong with you..
What's wrong with Iwamura - it actually would be a better answer for us than people playing out of position, and we have the 4.8 mil, and it sounds like they/TB don't really care what they get for him. I'd be shocked if it was us, but in a good way - it's a short term deal no real downside in my mind.
Second basemen courtesy fo MLBTradeRumors
Ronnie Belliard (35) - Type B
Jamey Carroll (36)
Alex Cora (34)
Craig Counsell (39)
Mark DeRosa (35) - Type B
Jerry Hairston Jr. (34) - Type B
Orlando Hudson (32) - Type A
Akinori Iwamura (31) - $4.85MM club option with a $550K buyout
Adam Kennedy (34)
Felipe Lopez (30) - Type B
Mark Loretta (38)
Pablo Ozuna (35)
Placido Polanco (34) - Type A
Luis Rodriguez (30)
Freddy Sanchez (32) - $8MM club option with a $600K buyout - Type B
Juan Uribe (31)
OOPS Freddy is off the list
========================
Blalock - 7 years ML experience (910 Career games, 152 Career HRs, 195 2Bs, 17 3Bs, 535 RBIs)
Jones - 1 year ML experience (113 Career games, 23 Career HRs, 23 2Bs, 2 3Bs, 49 RBIs)
They are the same age!
www.bradenton.com/.../1827934.html
Update on Iwamura
Expected to be traded to a NL team tonight. Some teams mentions on mlbtraderumors.com include dbacks, astros, nationals. I still believe that it isn't the bucs but the odds just went up.
Groat2Maz---remind me never to get on your bad side.
"@What's wrong with you..
What's wrong with Iwamura - it actually would be a better answer for us than people playing out of position, and we have the 4.8 mil, and it sounds like they/TB don't really care what they get for him. I'd be shocked if it was us, but in a good way - it's a short term deal no real downside in my mind."
As I said above(in first post) I agree with you.
"That mates, is truly the Curly Shuffle..."
Excellent point!
I think we have to wait for the "non-tendered" list 10 days after the World Series to see if there is anyone to fill the 2nd Base hole. Otherwise, our best bet is to try Andy LaRoche there.
We HAVE to do something at 2nd.
It's too soon to start trading our so-called prospects!
Is there a sign up sheet for the camp that agrees with trying LaRoche at 2B and saying no to Blalock?
If so, sign me up.
LaRoche has no future at 3B in the majors, even in Pittsburgh. - An effective transition to 2B is his last shot at being an everyday player IMO. If he can't then he is destined to be a utlity player. - If he can even handle that.
Blalock is too brittle. He is an injury waiting to happen and his ave / OBP / Slg all plummeted last season.
The suggestion to give him $25M for 3 years is absolutely inane. I wouldn't want to commit more than 1 yr to him given his recent injury trend and certainly no more than $2M for one season.
"You have it--this is one of the weakest FA groups ever."
You are correct, it is.
That just underscores how poorly Neal did in getting value back in return when he dumped Bay and McLouth.
Why didn't I,
"But we can sign a guy to a 3 year/11 million dollar contract after 1 season of 116 games and count on him to be the main force in the lineup (when it's clearly evident that if the wind blows hard enough, he'll injure something)?"
Oh so you are saying that you belong to the two wrongs make it right camp? Or the let's not learn from past mistakes camp?
" I still believe that it isn't the bucs but the odds just went up."
Dejan just twittered that the Bucs are in the talks.
Wilver Dornell,
You could never get on by bad side.
You are reasonable, even when we disagree.
I have no bad side anyway: just a 'truth' side.
DK is going to be on Mark Madden at 4:15. on 105.9 the X. Be there and be square.
Hostage for now
Half a season is too short to know what he got for Nate. Morton may turn out to the top of the rotation starter they need or may not. Hernandez and Locke, who knows.
"" I still believe that it isn't the bucs but the odds just went up."
Dejan just twittered that the Bucs are in the talks."
In my head, I just said "nice"...I do not know if that was for the move or actually having a real baseball to talk about.
It would behoove the Pirates front office to have some type of Recognition Day for Jack Wilson in 2010.
He didn't get the proper send-off he so well deserved.
HostageSage,
Please, please, please bring back your old and very original Bob Nutting avatar.
I hear your words so much more clearly with that not-smiling face beside them!!
Thanks for the heads up Dem.
So much for DJ going into his annual self imposed cocoon until December.
@ Hostage: Why get Blalock when you have Jones, who we at least know can field the position and hit for power. Whether he can do that over a full season, who knows? For me, that solves the 1B issue.
Move Lil' Stonehenge to 2B. That leaves a vacancy of sorts in RF until Tabata comes along. I still think that Moss was hindered by his knee last season and so he may be an adequate stop-gap in RF until Tabata comes up.
This leaves 3B. Who plays there if we move Lil' Stonehenge prior to PA coming along?
I still like the idea of moving Laroche, just don't know who to replace him with.
11
It's OK to be wrong! It's OK to express a differing opinion without telling everyone else they are wrong. You get an idea here and get all worked up, defending yourself proudly, even when your statistics don't match your argument. Just because YOU say it doesn't make it right. Differing opinions can be right! That's why they are opinions.
===============================================
Please go back through my posts and tell me where I said, "You are wrong, I am right".
I disagreed with NuHo's original statement of Hank Blalock being a "1 year reclamation project" and presented my arguments. Then I was told that I was not a knowledgeable baseball fan. This is why I've become passionately involved in this discussion on Hank. I may only be 23, but I know baseball.
Hank has run into some injuries in the past couple seasons (Ryan Doumit). This is not a Jeremy Burnitz, Raul Mondesi idea. This is different. He's going to be 29 (in November). It puts someone in the middle of the lineup who is a legit threat (not someone past their prime).
And, you telling me that I'm wrong, makes your above statement moot. It's my opinion. It can differ. I can say what I want. It can be wrong. It's my opinion. It can differ from yours (which it clearly does). And there are people that agree with me (InZisk being 1), so who's wrong?
No one. Just different.
Yet apparently I'm the only 1 wrong.
For those of you in Iowa that is WXDX.com
"He didn't get the proper send-off he so well deserved."
Larry Z,
They had say goodbye to Jack day the last game of the season at PNC Park in both 2007 and 2008. It just took a little while to trade him.
Demery--thanks for the heads-up on MM. Why does it not surprise me you listen to MM?!
@ Demery: Can't stream at work due to bandwidth issues. Could you summarize when it is over?
Thanks!
12
As long as the cost (in terms of players) is minimal, I would be very happy with a deal for Iwamura. He can play 2b or 3b so it would give the Bucs flexibility with Alvarez, LaRoche or another pickup.
Ooh, Raul Mondesi. There's a blast from the past.
He had close to 270 HRs when he joined the Bucs in 2004 at age 32. Only had 2 with the Bucs then retired after 2005.
Can you say "Jeromy Burnitz"?
============================
Who would I rather give money to?
Hmmm.
A guy with 910 Career games (over 7 seasons), .269 Career BA, 152 Career HRs, 195 2Bs, 17 3Bs, 535 RBIs
or
410 Career games (over 5 seasons), .273 Career BA, 46 Career HRs, 91 2Bs, 3 3Bs, 191 RBIs
and have them be the main force in my lineup?
I'd much rather bank on Blalock getting back to form than Doumit. WHich is what I propose to do in signing Hank and then shipping Capps and Doumit out. Yet most on here want to run Ryan out there everyday (which is impossible due to him being made of glass) and then specualte as to why he's terrible. Um. Because he had 1 decent season (and still couldn't stay healthy).
And if the 3 years / 25 million is the hang up, then fine, shorten it to to, but it's gotta be in the neighborhood of 7-8 a year. He made 6.2 last season. He's not going to play anywhere for less.
And finally to NuHo's above point...
I'm in the, "If we're going to spend an avg. of 3.6 million/year on our #4 hitting catcher (who plays 80 games a season), why not spend that (plus some) for 3 years on a guy who has gotten injured as of late, but has proven he can play more than 115 games consistently over multiple seasons and hit the ball out of the ballpark" group.
I like Delwyn Young's bat way better than Iwamura. Much more power.
Would someone mind listening to Madden and putting in a post? I can't leave work for another hour or so.
So we are in talks with Tampa for Iwamura?
MLBTraderummors says TB wants a ML player or prospects,
First time poster, long time lurker…but I can’t take anymore of this. How can you people accept the FO not going out and getting players to fill the holes on this team? We have a projected payroll (as of today) of 28-32 million? That should leave 20-30 million to go and get some players in here that can perform at the MAJOR LEAGUE level. Do all of you forget that the team we’re talking about putting on the field as of right now went 8-23 to end the season? I’m not a fan of bringing in more Derek Bell’s or Eric Hinske’s but there are players out there that have the talent to play on other MLB teams (why not spend the money to get them). How many of those do we have on this roster right now???
I am not against the “blueprint” that is being used and I can’t say that I’m for it either since we’ve been hearing that this is the plan for the past 17 years. I do however agree with leadoff, that the plan can work and a competitive team can be fielded at the major league level at the same time. We dumped Bay, Nady, McLouth, and the others to stockpile the minor leagues, that part of the plan has been done. The 2nd part of the plan that needs to be acted on now is singing free agents that can actually play ball and get this team out of the basement ASAP. I don’t want to hear that we have young players that would be blocked if we did this, because if they were ready now and they were actually capable of playing at the level we’re discussing then all we did was build depth and last time I checked, depth was a good thing to have. It’s time that the FO actually goes out and gets PLAYERS, not guys with veteran presence, not projects, not over the hill guys that used to be able to play…guys that can actually produce!
So let’s say that this team goes out and gets some of the people that have been discussed, Uggla, Hermida, Blalock for example…can they get the 3 of those guys without giving away our top prospects in the minors and still only spend 20-30 million on them? If the answer is yes, then go and get these guys and we now have some LEGIT players to go with Cutch, Jones, Doumit, Milledge, and Andy.
Spike, a shortstop should have the most range of any of the infielders and normally that means that they are some of the faster players as well, which Andy is not. And as for your comment about when we were kids and we all played every position, that is true, but we’re not talking about kids…we’re supposed to be talking about a MLB team and if you look at the other 29 teams, they don’t have players playing 2B, 3B, SS on a regular basis because they want them to focus on mastering 1 position and not having to think about where they’re going to play every day and how to adjust.
Would Andy be a better fit offensively as a 2B, sure but look at the Phillies 2B and 3B and compare their numbers, Feliz 12 HR’s .266 avg, Utley 31 HR’s .281 avg, so to me it does not matter where the production comes from as long as we get it. Uggla would provide 30 HR’s a year with a subpar average of .257, where as Andy might hit 15 HR’s with a .260 avg. I’d be willing to take that and it got the Phils to the dance…now add in what Blalock and Hermida might bring to the table, wouldn't that be a competetive team?
All I’m saying is that the losing is exhausting to all of us and this FO needs to finally step up and get some guys in here that can actually play the game. I’m not talking about going out and spending 100 million on guys, but get “affordable” players that have produced for a couple of years now and have the potential to either keep starting jobs or push our younger “prospects” for jobs once they get to the show.
Projected 2010 Opening Day Lineup
1. Cutch CF
2. Milledge LF
3. Jones RF
4. Uggla 2B
5. Blalock 1B
6. Doumit C
7. Andy 3B
8. Cedeno SS
9. Duke P
@ Why didn't I: I noted previously that I agree with trading Doumit. He has reached his peak, imho. Trade him now while he is healthy...
13
Why Didn't I,
If you continue to argue this ridiculous point about Blalock I may be forced to remove you from my Christmas Card list.
;-)
NutHo - you're no Spartacus! Are you?
Jose - yeah Doumit in my opinion has seen better days. Plus I think he wants out and is fed up, hence the attitude problems late last season. Average average average catcher.
I actually prefer the Diaz/Jaramillo platoon. That was a bright spot in the rather dismal season.
Jmaz - welcome,
Re how can we people accept? We had to live with 17 years, what is 2 or 3 more?
This team is not as close as many think. And we go thru this every darn season
Larry Demery,
Thanks for the heads up on Dejan.
I missed the first part, but it sounds so far as if DK is on edge!!!!!
I like Delwyn Young's bat way better also. Unfortunately, Delwyn Young also has to wear a glove at least half the game!
bucsbits.mlblogs.com/.../2b_akinori_iwamura_to_bucs_loo.html
It seems it will be the pirates.
Biz, thank you,
It appears that everyone is accepting of the losing or has just become accustomed to it. It's been 17 years people, the FO has made promises and now has to act on those promises IMHO.
I'm not saying they're close, but bring in some guys with talent to get us closer is all I'm asking for.
"Yet apparently I'm the only 1 wrong."
Interesting that this is what you heard.
Dejan is somewhat defending Frank Coonnelly . . .
but questioning what we got——if we got enough——for all the trades.
Questioning if Morton and friends balance out Nate
Says nothing wrong with trading if get something back.
No one knows yet what we got back.
Nady trade good; Bay trade bad.
Have more prospects on list but not sure fire things they make majors
Still doesn't like Nate McLouth trade
Loves writing baseball
Where is all the money going?
Also, the main reason you like Delwyn's 'power' at 2b, is that the team is woefully lacking in it everywhere else (except Garrett Jones). We'd be better off putting power in power positions (corner IF, Corner OF), and putting defense up the middle.
Is there a different rule for Japanese players or a part of Iwamura's contract that makes him different than other players. I keep reading that he will be a free agent after the season, but that he will not have six years of service time so he should be under control of the team he plays for.
Send away Matt Capps, please.
Love the football looking guy, but he really stunk this year, even when 100% healthy.
Hey, JMaz,
Good points, buddy! My main point (underneath all of my characteristic rambling) is that I think our friend, Mr. LaRoche is a good Baseball Player. I want to keep him - it's just a matter of finding the right place for him. If it's 2nd Base, so be it.
A trade for Iwamura would certainly eliminate the need for a 2B...or to move LaRoche. Tampa has no need for LaRoche. More likely a catcher, or a relief pitcher it is at the major league level. They MIGHT take on an OF...to play right...but I wouldn't even count on that.
Interestingly...according to Cot's Baseball Contracts...there's a 2010 option...but there is also a clause in his contract that the Rays have to sign him to an extension or release him before he reaches the end of his contract. Don't know if that is considered the end of this season...or the end of the 2010 season.
Groat2Maz,
What do you mean when you say DK sounds like he is on edge?
Um, the DK interview with Mark Madden was incredible. I don't know if it can be posted but I will try.
Warning to all the kool-aid drinkers, it wasn't pretty. Madden asked great questions and DK hit it out of the park. I'm still trying to compose myself. i have to be alone now.
@ Groat: Thanks for the update - appreciate it!
14
If DK wonders where the money is going, then why doesn't he ask Coonelly the question?
I like DK and appreciate his effort in covering the Bucs but in my opinion he is not tough enough.
He will ask the surface level question that is obvious, but rarely will press and ask the harder, more challenging question when given a blow off corporate speak crap response from Coonelly, Nutting, or Huntington.
If he wants to know where the money is going, then ask the question and don't accept obvious blow off answers. - Dig further and press for a more substantial answer.
I don't think it's the power with DY as much as the consistency he showed early on. I think the power was a pleasant surprise.
WWWYP...looks like the clause I mentioned in the previous post is how Iwamura gets to FA quickly...sign or release. Remember...he went through the posting process to get out of Japan...which usually entails some unusual enticements to sign. Sure that early free agency helped entice him.
In case you want something from sources other than 'by gosh' - it's looks like we'll hear tonight who we gave up.
My guess is a one for one with perhaps a Robinson Diaz (or JJ)??
I don't like the Iwamura deal for this reason....
That then gives us two 2B type bats in the infield.
LaRoche does not have a 3B bat. - He is not productive enough.
You need power in the corners.
Jones should provide some but that is the most concrete we have and even he hasn't proven he can do it two years in a row.
You can't have little slap hitters like LaRoche manning third when you don't have any other power.
I'll keep my Hank Blalock ideas to myself from now on, and if anyone brings him up, I'll be sure to let that person know they are wrong.
http://twitter.com/jperrotto
reporting Pirates get Iwamura, no further details.
NH,
Alvarez in June.
DK sounded like he was on edge.
Calm, insightful Dejan sounded a little angry when he started talking about where all the money goes.
He surely didn't think we got enough for some of the trades.
He doesn't like the Pirate excuses of control of players, used over and over again, and small market spending. He got on his "Milwaukee is 2/3 the size of Pittsburgh" horse——which I think is GREAT when he does that——and called out excuses like that.
He said if we spend $60-65 million, team can win here!
Dejan was very complimentary of Frank Coonnelly, but doesn't thinks money things are above board over there. More trades were for money than for desire of a particular prospect.
Bucs are a bad team right now!
Wow! That was certainly an 'X' interview and not ESPN 1250.
=============
Why does it matter where the power comes from as long as it comes?
Nutting - right on! We need power hitters in the infield. Iwamura won't cut it. On Tampa Bay he fit in. We don't have Longoria and Pena at the corners.
Here is another link:
www.mlbtraderumors.com/.../rays-close-to-dealing-iwamura.html
msn.foxsports.com/.../Sources:-Rays-in-talks-to-deal-Iwamura-to-Pirates
Ken Rosenthal says Jesse Chavez - although Ken's got little credibility with me - over the years he usually has had these things wrong.
Dejan said he has pushed both Coonnelly and Huntington about coming clean about where money goes, to the point they become angry at him. He said they hate it when he brings up the Milwaukee example—and say so blatantly—but he is going to keep bringing it up.
That's when he said if Pirates spent $60-65 million they could be winners.
DK said the Pirates receive about 40 million from revenue sharing.
People in the organization were stunned at and against the McClouth trade. Got very little in return.
DK mentioned that there are people who defend these trades almost to a fault. They liked all the trades but never mention the returns.
He likes Coonnelly.
He said the mood in the clubhouse was indescribable. Players looking at each other and not knowing what's going on.
McCutchen appeared to rise above all the losing but was getting frustrated as the season went on.
The Pirates show no proof if they will ever pay players to stay here.
There was more if I can remember.
Delwyn Young has the uncommon ability to come in cold with good hits. He's a great bench guy. Not everyone can do that - it's a mentality thing as well as an ability thing.
It would be exciting to have the Bucs get a position player so early in the winter.
The FO is very keen on Morton. If he fine tunes his concentration, I think we'll see him top of the rotation. As the Almighty Drew 71 pointed out to me, the guy can throw a fastball and a 72 mph pitch with the same pitching motion. Who the heck wants to face that?
So the majority of folks in here seem to think its 3 years away, the above .500 season. What matters is what the decision makers think and base their decisions on.
Jmaz
First time poster, long time lurker…but I can’t take anymore of this. How can you people accept the FO not going out and getting players to fill the holes on this team?
_________________________
They won't like it if the same lineup that played the last 2 mths. starts off the season next year and we have to look at the exhibition season to start off the year.
I only have one difference than you as far as a starting lineup, I think I would put Tabata in RF and start the season with Jones at 1B, that is his natural position and pass on Blalock.
I think two months after the season begins Alvarez will be coming up anyway.
"Why does it matter where the power comes from as long as it comes?"
Man you are having a bad day. - Listen young man, don't flip me these ridiculous cliche type disingenuous answers.
Other than Jones, they don't have any 25 - 30 HR type players at any position, let alone the corners.
So smart guy, if not the corners who do you propose they have that will provide that kind of power?
Iwamura thinks Pittsburgh is Hiroshima.
"You need power in the corners.
Why does it matter where the power comes from as long as it comes?"
If Bucs pick up Iwamura, it certainly is NOT coming from 2nd base or shortstop.
Need two power/RBI types in infield, plus two in outfield. Catcher a bonus, if Doumit plays and hits.
I'm going to keep the powder dry on Iwamura, but good catch, WWWYP. At first glance he looks like Freddy with a lower average. If he's the guy I saw last year during the playoffs, though, he made some amazing plays defensively. Probably will cost Diaz and one of the pitchers they got in the JW deal.
If they pull this off, though, it is encouraging that they are doing something.
NuHo--this could be a building block, which may hasten Pedro's advancement to the Bigs.
Nutting or Anyone -
There's a quick research project.
Where does Andy L. stand as far as HR's for 2009 for starting 3B?
POH
He's a great bench guy.
_____________________
Bingo
Groat2Maz and Demery,
Thanks for the updates.
I've been wondering for some time if perhaps the club is having financial challenges that prompted all the salary dumps but unlike McClatchy they are smart enough to not allow this to become public knowlegde and lose any and all leverage in trade negotiations like happened with Ramirez.
If that's the case, they either bring on additional investors, if anyone would be willing to invest, or sell if they are in over their heads. - Just stop holding the town, the players, and the sport hostage over their shortcomings.
NutHo - You may not think LaRoche has enough power, but calling him a slap hitter is not accurate.
He may have hit too many ground balls and for most of the season his fly balls were caught shy of the warning track. But his stroke is a line drive hitter's stroke.
As usual, we'll just have to disagree about his potential next year until we see what happens.
Demery, that's not even funny.
Arriba,
"NuHo--this could be a building block, which may hasten Pedro's advancement to the Bigs."
I'd be OK with Iwamura under different scenarios.
I like his glove a lot, and his bat is OK for 2B.
But, I don't like having another 1 year or half season wonder yet again.
And I don't like having LaRoches second base bat at 3B.
If you are right that this will hasten Alvarez's arrival, what I don't want to see happen is they then dump Iwamura, his salary and good glove and then move LaRoche to 2B mid season and then have to live with him learning as he goes and fielding like a butcher.
They need to begin doing some strategic planning.
I've had it with these half season Nutting special wonders and appears that Iwamura will be yet another in what has been a long line.
And is this does hasten Alvarez,
Congratulations Mark, you were the first with feigned outrage.
MarkyMark,
LaRoche does not have a legitimate major league thirdbaseman bat. - Period.
"Where does Andy L. stand as far as HR's for 2009 for starting 3B? "
I don't know about "starting third basemen" but he was tied for 19th among all third basemen.
Poor Iwamura. - He has no idea what is about to happen to him.
I suppose he should just look at the bright side. - He will only be here 4 months before he and his salary are dumped elsewhere.
Maybe he will refuse to report and attempt to stay and sign with a team in Japan?
I can't imagine anything worse than being a legit major league player and being traded to an organization owned by Bob Nutting and run by Coonelly and Huntington.
I've always said that if you can't trust or respect who you work for and with, you need to make a change.
JMaz,
Welcome to our unfortunate world!!
"I only have one difference than you as far as a starting lineup, I think I would put Tabata in RF and start the season with Jones at 1B, that is his natural position and pass on Blalock."
I agree with Jones at 1B and passing on Blalock, but what would lead you to believe that Tabata is ready to play in the Majors.
1/ He's only 21 years old, despite his wife being 60!
2/ He has spent less than half a season at AAA—actually less than 2 months—batting .273 with 3 HR and 10 RBIs in 150 AB.
Those aren't the statistics of a guy ready for the majors.
And, no matter what Frank Coonnelly said at the "No Pizza For You" gathering, none of these young players will show up on the Major League team until the first week of June, to give the Front Office an extra year of arbitration leverage.
Remember, Mr. Truth Telling Coonnelly was the guy at last year's gathering who implied no one in the clubhouse liked Jack Wilson. How wrong that was!!! He was just setting us up for the trade that took half a season to come to fruition.
Looks like we're sending Chavez, at least, for Iwamura.
Later all.
I'm outta here until Thursday.
A friend convinced me to try goose hunting with him.
I have no idea what it's like, but figured why not give it a whirl.
I will have my alter egos Demery, Jose, Arriba, and Drew carry on during my absense.
Good luck Akinori Iwamura. God speed.
LOL, wiki already has Iwamura with the Bucs.
en.wikipedia.org/.../Akinori_Iwamura
Hostage/Demery,
You complain that they don't spend and sign free agents, but lately your mantra is that nobody will want to come here.
I guess when you take all sides of an issue, you can never be proven to be wrong.
"Mr. Truth Telling Coonnelly was the guy at last year's gathering who implied no one in the clubhouse liked Jack Wilson."
This should tell you all you need to know about Coonelly's lack of character.
Never in a millions years is it appropriate for an executive to divulge this type of information to the general public, whether it is true or not.
Sorry DK, but that is scumbaggish behavior.
I did not get the idea from what Dejan said that there were financial shortages. He seemed to enumerate well above sufficient cash flow coming in: he mentioned revenue sharing, National TV monies, national Major League Gear monies shared, and a smidgen of luxury tax that should pay for everything even before tickets, refreshments, parking etc.
This is when he said there should be enough for the Pirates to spend $60 million to be a winner.
See if Demery agrees with me that this is what Dejan said.
It sounded like the money is there . . . just not being spent on players!
ants may march to the Iwamura thread=================================
<<Nutting - right on! We need power hitters in the infield. Iwamura won't cut it. On Tampa Bay he fit in. We don't have Longoria and Pena at the corners. >>
No kidding. I would love to have Longoria on this team. LOVE to. Add Rivera in the bullpen while we're at it.
If Jesse Chavez goes, I'm going to be spitting mad. Yeah, that makes sense, trade one reliable guy in the bullpen that could be a closer for a second baseman with a bad knee. hooray.
NutHo -
I agree with you that Andy's bat doesn't look like a great MLB bat on paper right now. But I believe he's going to show great improvement next year.
I was quite down on him for much of the year, because it just didn't seem like he had the power going for him. What seemed like hard hit balls just died in mid outfield.
However, my opinion changed in September. Of course, lots of players can get hot for a short time, but the kind of power that Andy was showing - and against good pitching, not just September callups - really convinced me that the power people spoke of had finally returned for him after his injury last year.
I also think Iwamura is likely to be a half season guy with the Pirates until Alvarez comes up and they move Andy to 2B.
But I'm fine with that.
Just to add a little to the DK MM interview.
What I heard DK say was that a lot of baseball people like the Pirates' plan of using the Oakland/Minnesota approach, but are very much lukewarm at best on the execution.
My understanding of what he said about payroll is that the $60-65 mil figure was in reponse to MM's question about what it would have taken to field a winning team (unclear exactly what that meant--I took it as being legit playoff contender, not .500) IF they would have kept Bay, McLouth (not everybody, but most) and DK, while prefacing it as a guess, said it would have taken the 60-65 mil.
He also said based on the low payroll this year, he was not suggesting it was even wise to go out and spend a ton for 2010, but he did say that down the road they are going to have to start keeping some people and spend in the Milwaukee $80 mil range. He clearly thinks they can spend at least what Milwaukee spends.
He had an explanation for the approach they took (trading Bay,etc.) that I had never heard explicitly before. He said the FO would have had to have gone out and spent a lot to get some starting pitching to make that team successful (60-65 total) and that they were "scared to death" to put that money out on one or two starting pitchers that only played every fifth day and could go down with an injury anytime.
Part of the tone of the interview, like any, was the nature of the questions. Big surprise to me---MM was impressed with FC's hiring (nothing against FC, but MM isn't usually impressed by anyone except Mario L and Sidney Crosby).
.381
.390
Slugging percentages of Delwyn and Iwamura.
Iwamura was the .390
Iwamura has better OPS as well. Surprising - higher average offsets lack of HR power. But still Delwyn hit 7 homers? and we are worried about the loss of power at 2b?
I saw the picture of John Perrotto.I never realized how big his head was.Just an observation.
On Iwamura ....we need a 2B.DY is a good PH and occasional spot starter.His arm is so-so,questionable footwork,and he's stiff or just not very fluid.