Yates to return?

The Buccoes are proving Yogi right, it ain't over till it's over.

Firsties?

Is anyone else suspicious that Chuck is just making this stuff up (Hill, Yates) ?  ;-)

Arriba, I responded on the last thread.

Okay, I won't sulk now.    :-)

I like Yates and his stuff was good when he wasn't hurt.  I will hope for the best, but wish Yates well wherever he ends up.  

Arriba, you did miss one heck of an afternoon and you could have asked anything you wanted to so please do not knock the milk off the table

Leadoff,

if you go back and check Arribas post on the morning thread you will see he said we are on different sides of the ole and that I see no wrong, following logic is all I was doing., backed up by his further comments.

Do not worry, arriba and I are Buddies and will remain even if he is wrong.

Keep hoping for the best. Yates is only ok even when he is strong. I demand that we start looking for exceptional not just average. This blog has a certain amount of disdain attached to any suggestion just because it is not "mine", whether it be uggla or dunn. We all have our own set of "wishes". No wonder we will never get along.  ST is coming soon, where is Drew when you need a little comedy.

DMac make your plans now to join us sometime between 3/13 and 3/22 in Bradenton

First of all, MLB TradeRumors has Ryan D on the block for a possible offseason trade.

From earlier discussion, the thing that got me about Hart was a perceived lack of heart, especially in handling his trade to us losers.

With Yates, I personally refuse to get emotionally involved with most players anymore, its a cold calculating business with this management team, and thats fine, the popularity of a player doesn't matter, what matters is cost, years of control and what you can get for them, in no particular order.

You gotta be careful with chainsaws, they jerk and move around, if not careful stuff gets cut that you don't like.

When they cut Moss, I'll be ticked, but then pick another player to root for, when they trade others, I hope they get value.

Expect and hope, so I cut it down

Very relieved to see the Pirates clarify the fact that Yates may or may not return.

Also BA clarified that by giving Andrew ROY then meant the part of the year that baseball was being played. Lots of other rookies did really cool stuff over the course of the calendar year but they were primarily focused on cool stuff that happened during the months that (organized) baseball was taking place. If anyone has that BA link please post  - I can't find it now.

@Indy...Will do.  

I really don't like this time of year.  Is it spring yet?  ;-)

Well if past history is a prediction for the future, how many negotiations have gone well?  PBC defines the market value and if Yates concurs, it might get done, but PBC goes at the K-Mart blue light special rules, not criticizing, just stating perceived facts.

I think Tyler will go elsewhere, no big deal, IMO

Groat-  I'm protecting the core of prospects we are going to have up shortly.  Put Pedro on a .500 team vs asking him to save the franchise.  

I want don't have to have black holes on the lineup, and I want to have major league depth vs the next Bixler (diaz).    

Think seriously about Uggla.  Where is the market for him?  

Angels, Astros, Braves, Nats?  With the obsession of "prospects"  (like the Devil Rays who wouldn't trade Wade Davis for Bay, which would have won them the World Series), Uggla can be had.  

Think about the lineup the pirates had prior to the McClouth trade.  Wouldn't it be nice NOT to be shut out 17 times next year?  

I'm on-board with cultivating MLB talent in-house.  However, not every guy in A ball is going to be a productive MLB player. The problem is that a good, disguised power bat is very hard to find.

Prediction for 2010..

Cardinals = -4 wins

Cubs = +2 wins

Brewers = +4

Reds   = +6

Astros = -2

Pirates?

Underhand Stan,

I disagreed vehemently with the "blow it up" philosophy that Neal Huntington took.

I still disagree further with "I'm Glad You Didn't See Roberto, because You Would Have Traded Him in 1959" and others who are proposing giving away Doumit and Capps to blow things up further!  Those folks are so in love with "blowing up" that they don't consider the foolishness of trading resources at their lowpoint.

However, even though I disagreed with Neal's "blow it up" philosophy, it's already been done.  

I agree that prospects are "possibilities," not "probabilities."  But to now trade some top prospects for 2-year or 1 1/2 year players would be ludicrous.  We can't switch boats midstream.

We've already chosen our direction.  It's too late to now check the map.  We must commit to following through our present course of action, whether I or you initially agreed with it or not.

The next 4 seasons are going to be PAINFUL!!!

Biz: Do you have the address for the Trade rumors site?

Bizzy- I think they go by the Farmers market pricing.  

Would it make sense to offer yates a contract in the minors with incentives so that if he fully recovers he could make what he would with being arb eligible?

I can see about 15 teams needing bullpen help.  

So yate mey be back--no surprise there.

Radio

here you go

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

If you read the story on catchers they are not rumors but speculation on possibilities.

Underhand Stan,

I believe in adding players.

I think that Neal Huntington has to add those players through late Free Agent signings and jumping on guys like Uggla and/or Hermida who might not be offered arbitration.  

To give away Zach Duke or top prospects for a guy we may have been able to pick up for free would be  .  .  .  .  well, to be honest, that would be Pirate-like, wouldn't it?  We have to quit being Pirate-like and start being winners!

Crap!!  2013 is so-o-o-o far away!!

Indy: "where is Drew when you need a little comedy"

that's odd, mrs drew refers to it as a little comedy.  

whadaminit, are we talkin about the same thing??

With the farm system improved, you have to take advantage of a pure salary dump.  Hanley and Uggla don't get along, you have payroll space and a CRATER in the farm System for 3-4 years as well there.  

I view it as compensating for something you don't currently have and won't have until the Pirates take the Rice SS.

Herminda has a chance to be non-tendered.  I still think there is alot of talent there.  

Uggla has no chance of being non-tendered.  I hope he's a Pirate before he's a National or Astro.. or worse CUB (who I do not see getting salary).

A lot of talk today about trading prospects for established players.  Yes, you build a good farm system to both replenish the MLB team and to use in trades.  However, a team should only trade prospects when they need a player to become the final one or two pieces of a playoff team.  First you need some of the prospects to develop into MLB players.  Then if you have a competitive team and mid-season feel one more quality starters will make the difference you go after a Cliff Lee or a Jake Peavy.  

Justice Action League,

AMEN!

I think the word of the month is clarify.I'm surprised JJ hasn't made a poem to go along with it.Let's see ..rarify...terrify...mummify...scarify(these are my Halloween rhymes)...ratify...humidify...signify...verify...stupify..magnify.... nullify...yuppify..simplify

However, a team should only trade prospects when they need a player to become the final one or two pieces of a playoff team.  

__________________________

I believe that is a correct assumption, but not complete.

There are teams that have to start winning, winning begets winning, if one or two players gets this team over the hump from a losing team to a winning team, then moves have to be made.

Your not going to jump from a loser to a WS winner, that jump does not happen very much if at all.

So I am all for adding pieces as long as it does not disrupt the overall plan.

I can't get the philosophy of losing games with the thought that all of a sudden we are going to be a winner if we do nothing, prospects no matter how good they are rated are still suspects until they reach the majors and produce, that could take even a couple more years after they get here.

This team is 2 position players away from crossing over the line from losing to winning, how much, depends on moves in the summer, injuries, we still would not have depth however.

We don't have years to start winning, tomorrow would not be too soon.

JAL, thanks for the address.

Drew: I don't believe you went there; no let me clairify that, I forgot who we are dealing with here...

leadoff

Yes, you can add players just that trading prospects for a player is how bad teams stay bad.  Prospects are suspect but you do not want trade away the next Joe Mauer for a player who not make a difference.  If you can get someone as an FA for a reasonable price then go for it.  The Nats got Adam Dunn for a reasonable price and he produced as expected and it did not make a difference.  

Maz, all you had to do was ask

there once was a guy who liked to clarify

leaving us all to wonder just about why

did he decide to go on and on

after he had been gone

together we gather and exhale one big sigh

Lets look at this from the viewpoints of WSB, JAL, and Leadoff.

WSB, just wants.  JAL and Leadoff explain the why's of WSB

and to the point of Uggla.

JAL's is a given, Leadoffs is more to the point of this team.

Back to WSB's choice and its effects with the two year time limit expected and the effect that leadoffs proposition of taking us over the halfway point.

Now Stanly predicts a 40 homerun season from his man, following that up by a toop prospect being groomed and leadoff's position supports  Stanly hope.

So we do it, and in three years he is gone and we have a ready rookie to step in.

If he hits even 20 out of the park, that will be one major let down from the two previous two seasons.

For what will be considered a team on the young side growing up i surmise that let down could cause a breakdown.

I am sticking with the given.

To go after Stanly's man it has to be with a four year contract if you are gathering a major allstar.  A time for the whole team to move past their next step up the level ladder.

Leadoff,

I tacitly agree with what you said.  However, we are not two players from winning!  Not even close!!

Last year we began the year THREE players away from being a winner: 1/  an RBI producing outfielder, leaving Nyjer and Moss to fight over the other spot.  (Nate could have been that after McCutch was brought up, but we had already given Nate away.);  2/ A power hitting 3rd or 1st baseman;  3/  a top half of the rotation starting pitcher.

Instead of adding we subtracted without adequately replacing:  Freddie Sanchez, Jack Wilson, Adam LaRoche, Nate McLouth, Ian Snell (who went 5-2 with Seattle.), John Grabow  In dispensing with those 6 players we got as help for the Major League team:  a 5—9, 5.25 ERA pitcher and a 1—7 6.00 ERA pitcher.

We were three players away from winning last year, and gave up those 6  average to above average Major Leaguers.  Even Ronny Cedeno ended with a .208 BA and more Strikeouts than hits, hitting .218 for his last 5 weeks as a Pirate.

With so much subtraction, we are many more than 2 players away from winning, even if Morton turns his record around!

2013!

"he opted for free agency Monday when the Pirates waived him outright to place him on Class AAA"

Seems to me that personnel within the organization are beating a path to the door.

leadoff--since you took up JJ's accusation, I think literally, that I labeled him an FO pansy," I wanted to respond.  Here is what occurred:

JJ-"demery, maybe a funny guy, but the truth is neal did recognize the day he was ready to produce in a major league way,  Not a day too soon or too late."

Me-"JJ--I think you forgot to mention DL, who, of course, drafted Cutch.  You can say that they didn't bring him up to soon, but too late will never be known.  Seriously, sometimes I think if the players are "regular," if you know what I mean, you would pat Neal on the back."

JJ-"Arriba, really now, same difference in that what if they did bring him a week or two too early maybe he would have hit 30 homeruns.  

I did not Forget to mention DL, I chose to keep my rant to the subject."

Me-"JJ--and what is the 'subject?'  Polishing the FO's, uhh, be ....., shoes?"

Now, I was having a little fun, but no where did I use the term "pansy."

And he is also wrong in his accusation that I disapprove of everything the FO does.  That's just a totally inaccurate statement.  I don't trust them, but I don't disagree with every move they make. And I do think FC should be commended for meeting with the Bloggers and the talk about picking up the tab is just irrelevant blather.

I do agree with JJ on one point, with a twist--we are Buddies and will remain so even though HE is wrong. ;-)

I can't believe there hasn't been a press release or even an uprising on the blog to clarify what they mean by "dialogue" and "attempt to keep him"

Nutho, are you going to lose sleep because Tyler Yates -who is recovering from TJ surgery - elected to be a free agent?

Pansy posey what's the difference they both are flowers

Yates electing free agency probably has much, if not only, to do with his own economic interest, was probably done in consultation with his agent and has nothing to do with the team he is playing for.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

ThunderC

I wrote press release today but not on dialogue :)

Arriba, funny you left out the mitigting statement:  from the same logic!

T-crack,

No, not all all.

I don't see the value in a reliever with a career 5.12 era and 1.56 whip prior to TJ surgery that all the "pundits" here on the PBC Blog do.

However, I do think it speaks volumes of this outstanding organization that "Mr. C" and Neal are running that a first base coach would rather sit out a year and not earn a penny and that a broken down reliever trying to come back from TJ surgery would rather do it elsewhere.

The fact this club can't even keep first base coaches and broken down relievers and that the GM must engage in extended "dialogue" to try is laughable.

I suppose the good news is that this is more work Neal put into the last two off seasons.

JJ-I didn't reference a flower, just behinds and shoes.  Neither of which have much in common with flowers, if you know what I mean.

JJ--if I left anything out, I can assure you it was inadvertent.  What do you claim I left out? (I was afraid if I copied too much stuff JAL might complain. :)

Hostage

The value is that when healthy his 5.12 ERA is better than those at 6.50 and 7.50 :)

Arriba

no complaints when you use good words like inadvertent.  :)

Nutho,

I would say that Yates, the broken down reliever, deciding to become a free agent says nothing about the organization that Neal and FC are running.  No volume there.  This is just a case of the player seeing if there is a better deal out there.

I don't see a problem with an organization that can't keep first base coaches and broken down relievers.

NutHOs-  Any thoughts of acquiring Uggla?

I'm not completely on an island.  Maybe someone should call me "Tatu" or ask if I see the plane.

Well the trade value of Jones and McCutcheon will never be higher...  lets deal them now!!!

JAL--LOL

From earlier thread:

PoH wrote: >>AP is reporting a Philadelphia woman has been arrested "for offering sex for world series tickets."<<

Substitute "New York" for "Philadelphia" and my response would be:

Did you mean Kate Hudson?  muahahaha hahaha!

I didn't know Bootcheck was a Boras client.  

Gman-  good one.  

I didn't think Bootcheck was good enough to be a Boras client.

Arriba -

>>Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.<<

This begs the question:

If a paranoid person goes for a walk in the woods and none of the trees fall and no one was there, did he actually say "they're out to get me" in the first place?

JJ--I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that no one, and I mean NO ONE, knows what you are talking about in terms of the so-called  mitigating statement "from the same logic."  Kind of makes me feel like the duck in that AFLAC commercial with Yogi in the barber's chair where the duck is just shaking his head in frustration at the end.  ;-)

Drew- we need your joke on the Philly ticket scandal.

Well, here's my sucky week so far:

1) Toilet broken

2) Car needs $1500+ in repairs

3) Credit card declined for $81 purchase (cc company says the card is good, blames it on store's swipe machine)

4) Sprained my foot on a curb going to the mailbox

5) Tyler Yates declares free agency

I feel like such a pansy.

G-Man--the answer to your question is above my pay grade.

G-Man--"I feel like such a pansy."  Glad to see you are keeping up.  LMAO

On Doumit -

I would be shocked if Doumit were traded either this offseason or until Tony Sanchez is ready. Not only would we be replacing an above average player (when healthy) with a replacement level player in Jaramillo, we would be doing it at Doumit's lowest possible value.

On Hermida -

He had ONE good season in 2007, which was due to his BABiP for that year being way high when compared to his line drive rate. Since then, he has progressively swung at more and more pitches out of the strike zone, and taken more and more pitches in the strike zone. So, I don't consider the last 2 years as being flukes - rather I consider his good season to be getting rather lucky. I think there's probably more of a chance that Tabata is a better hitter in his first year than Hermida will be next year.

On Uggla -

Originally I thought Alvarez would not be up next year, but the FO wouldn't have asked Andy about making a move to 2B next year if they didn't think there was a serious possibility of that.

If you're going to trade for a piece, it should be a piece that will be a major upgrade. Uggla's wOBA of .355 may be a big upgrade over Andy's 2009 .324, but given that Andy's MiLB wOBA is .400 and he showed definite long streaks of putting together those kinds of numbers last year, it's quite possible that Uggla and Andy will be relative equals as hitters next year. Plus, Andy is a much better defensive player. So, I'd rather have Andy at 2B.

DMac, Indy and all the Florida spring travellers - do any of you follow the team around down there?  I'm supposed to hop a plane and visit my snowbird parents sometime during spring training to catch the buccos @ the Twins... I think that's Ft. Myers.

Arriba -

>>Glad to see you are keeping up.<<

I'm hanging on every word.  LOL!

G man

every word is not worth hanging onto :)

arriba--  JJ has a very unusual literary style.  Once you get to meet him, it essentially unlocks the puzzle.  

The comparison of Uggla to Andy is an interesting one and I guess there are some statistics that call into question Uggla's value, particularly when you consider what we might have to give up to get him. But the one statistic I like is his 90+ RBI. To me that is more important than where he plays. We need to get a couple of RBI bats more than anything.

Groat

However, we are not two players from winning!  Not even close!!

____________________________

I did not say we were two players away from winning, I said we are two position players away, of course we need some pitching also, especially in the bullpen.

The two positions that will be fought for in the spring will be 2nd base and possibly right field. Right field depends on Jones and whether there are any trades, but Jones is playing either right field or 1st base, all other positions are filled.

Radio -- Ferentz news conference, he said Richardson & Richardson are out for the season, though it is possible that Robinson might be back for the post season.

All -- Calling it a day, but don't forget I'm pullin' for ya'.  We're all in this together.

Please allow me to be NH for a minute or two. Right fielder needed. Go after Josh Willingham, a solid investment. How 'bout that as a start. Now I'll work on a 2nd baseman even if Andy can play there. This would allow him to go two ways if necessary. I definitely would not get rid of him; he has shown marked improvement offensively and is a definite asset defensively. I would also hang on to Ryan Doumit. I can't help but think he tried to come back too soon this past season thus resulting in a down year for him. Probably out of reach financially, but Barry Zito. I can't help but think there is still lots remaining here. Perhaps Hardy is another player to consider. Just a few thoughts. Don't be afraid to jump all over these choices. I'm a big boy (64), and can take it (sometimes).

Likewise, I have never been to spring training, but would like to go in  the near future. Are there any specific details or info out there, suggestions, or information I might not be aware of in attempting to do this. You guys who have done this on a regular basis could provide some details. Thanks.

Now praise or criticize this pretend version of NH. Criticism helps a person to learn as well.

An encouraging sign that hopefully will translate into greater success in 2010 is that the Pirates led MLB this year in "Potential Quality Runs Per Inning (PQRPI)."

wsb speak for yourself.

Arriba, refer to reply to leadoff,   "from the same logic"