Hill does want to coach, but not with Pirates right now

Thanks for the update, Mr. Finder!

It's going to hit the fan with this, probably, but I'm in Mr. Hill's corner on clarifying what he meant. He doesn't want to be here. Our loss, as Pirates fans, since they say no one is better at what he does.

Huntington is a friggin joke. I've had about enough of his lies and incompetence. Just part ways with him and admit the mistake of his hiring. Unfortunately, he has done enough damage to this team to last another generation.

I still can't believe he traded McClouth and Morgan and people defended it. This guy is in over his head. Frank, do your job.

Certainly appears that it is NOT about the money...but something in the way the organization is operating.

Because if it was about the money...the Pirates have no excuse to be underpaying him. Saw an article that indicated that Dave Duncan, pitching coach for the Cardinals...was the highest paid coach last year...at something like $880K...and Rudy Jaramillo...former hitting coach for the Rangers was second at around $650K. It's not like they would have needed to pay him millions of dollars.

It speaks to an issue within the organization. Where the problem is...only insiders know...but there's obviously a problem...and it's somewhere between the clubhouse and management...and not entirely within the clubhouse.

poh/cajun-

yep. I second that emotion. it is our loss. we lose a known thing for yet another spin on the wheel of [mis]fortune.

perry is not here for a reason, and apparently not $$$.

Demery - The McLouth trade made sense. Someone was ready to take the place. I don't know how much you know about the rules of baseball, considering on the last thread you seemed well school in sexual harassment and one person can't be an expert in everything, but you can only put one centerfielder out on the field at one time.

You're welcome.

I don't think I was the only one on here last year that said perhaps the best moves all last winter were getting Hill and Kerrigan. I still feel that way.

I'd like to have Perry the coach. Perry the person seems like an immature a*hole though.

I thought that the FO made a very ambiguous statement regarding Hill not desiring to come back...and then he comes out with this? Coupled with his earlier statements and what is now seeming to be whining about the trades...I'm leaning towards being glad that he isn't back as opposed to being disappointed that he chose what he did.

Seems like the trades weren't the only disruption in the clubhouse this past summer.

 This is a loss because of his expertise which clearly improved our defense. However the bigger issue is NH. Coupled with the Sano debacle and this guy clearly needs some help. I have stated clearly from day one that I believe he was demoted in Cleveland for a reason and it is very clear that he is not ready for this job. Perry Hill is well respected by players and management alike and this only hurts our chances of enticing other players and coaches to come here. NH knew the press release he issued was nonsense, bush league on his part. Just say we couldn't come to terms and leave it at that.  

@Zisk...isn't it possible that the issue isn't IN the clubhouse...but somewhere between the clubhouse and team front office??

There have been several statements coming from Huntington and/or Coonelly over the last 2 years that seemed to take the approach that the FO wants everyone else to "shut up and let us do the talking"...also known as players and coaches not making waves.

Considering the approach the FO has seemed to take over the last year or so...I'd say it's better than even money that Ryan Doumit doesn't make it past the 2010 trade deadline as a Pirate. That'll erase the pre-Huntington roster except for Capps (already on thin ice), Duke and Maholm...and Duke and Maholm have always been pretty quiet about things.

Sure looks like the entire management team has free rein...and no fear of unemployment before sometime in the 2011 season.

IT'S A CULTURE OF WINNING!

             Srsly.

Perry has decided that he does not want to coach.

Hill misread the quote, the quote is correct.

Hill does not want to coach "here" and that is all we care about.

Huntington did not spell it out, but he does not understand he is dealing with people that do not understand what he means most of the time, he as to spell things out or shut up all together.

Hill's interpretation of the quote is that he does not want to coach anywhere, IMO that is a the wrong view.

Cajun

There have been several statements coming from Huntington and/or Coonelly over the last 2 years that seemed to take the approach that the FO wants everyone else to "shut up and let us do the talking"...also known as players and coaches not making waves.

__________________________

What management team would want players and coaches to make waves?

Demery,

I'm sorry, but if you still think the Morgan and McLouth deals show that Huntington is in "over his head", and you STILL would rather have McLouth, Morgan and Burnett over Morton, Milledge and Hanrahan then you would be a horrible GM.

I, for one, questioned the Morgan deal. I also admit I was wrong.

------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm also very disappointed that Hill isn't coming back. But actually Huntington was not lying. He said Hill chooses not to coach next year. Not that he didn't want to coach, but chooses not to. Since Huntington had an option he could exercize, that meant Hill would be choosing to coach for either the Pirates or not coaching at all.

All of this also doesn't mean that it's not about the money, it's just not entirely about the money, which is what I suspected all along.

If it was cut and dry, they would have announced Hill was not coming back soon after the end of the season. However, they apparently continued negotiations and finally decided they weren't going to come to an agreement.

The point is, Hill likes teaching at the highest level and any very good teacher also likes high quality students as well. I'm sure it was a disappointment when he saw Jack and Freddy leave, and not only that they left, but also the way they left, which was botched, IMO.

Hill saw that the FO was using him as a way that they could bring in defensively inferior players and raise their value substantially. Since Hill's joy is more in teaching high quality players to be the best, rather than low quality players to be average, that would require more money for him to do it.

Now, as far as Hill having the impression that Huntington would not be turning over the roster completely, I believe that Huntington probably did give him that impression, and I also think he really believed that at the time.

On Rocco's show, I heard Huntington say that half measures had not worked in the past, and in fact he came to the realization in the middle of this year that what he had done to that point was a half measure that was not going to work.

He came to this realization because even though the Pirates were only 6 games under .500 or so at the time, he realized that the vast majority of the teams they had played to that point were under .500, and that the tough part of the schedule was still to come.

So, although I'm sure Huntington did not "promise" Hill that Jack and Freddy would be staying, he most likely did give him the impression that he didn't foresee wholesale roster moves like those that actually happened.

Now, I personally think it's important that the Pirates have high quality instruction. But how important is it, and what was Hill wanting in order for him to stay in Pittsburgh?

That, I don't know. Was he wanting to be the highest paid coach in MLB? (over $800K) Would his salary also escalate the salaries of JR and Kerrigan in the future?

These are all questions that Huntington would have to ask himself in those negotiations. For example, 3 years from now, will giving Hill an exorbitantly high contract, which would escalate other coach's contracts, then give the Pirates a slightly lower amount they could offer one of their players?

I don't know the answer to those questions, but there are some people, like Smizik or like Nick Friedell (espn.go.com/.../blog) who don't think coaches are worth that much.

So, once again, I really wish Hill were coming back, but it's not like this is a definite sign that Huntington is on the wrong track.

It is a sign that he should go back and see if there's something he might do differently in future relationships, because you never want something to end like this.

Leadoff...when players or coaches on other teams speak out...they don't usually get the gate shortly afterwards. The players are REQUIRED to talk to the media...it's in the CBA. If they are just going parrot what management wants...well...Dejan and Chuck would be out of a job...because all the Pirates would have to do is put out a press release every day.

Guess that Buckley, Jewett and Hill (just as 3 examples in the last year) aren't good coaches...no matter what players or others may say about them?? More like...they didn't necessarily agree with Neal and Frank's view...so they must be squeezed out. I have NO doubt that NH...when he was courting Perry Hill...used Adam LaRoche, Sanchez and Wilson as bait to get him to sign. All already had good reputations on defense (accurate or not). Management knew prior to the 2009 season that unless they were going to get a signficant hometown discount...there was no way they would retain any of those 3.

Some people are honest and ethical. And those type of people don't take to being lied to or diverted from their goals very well. You might ask someone like Torres how he felt about leaving...especially since he was given away.

I understand the player acquisition approach of the current Pirates management. However...I STRONGLY question their capabilities in 1) talent evaluation, and 2) relations with players and coaches. Too many wrong turns in both directions.

Here's the main thing.

If Huntington is the genius he thinks he is, he should have paid close attention to everything Hill did, took notes, and even had some person or more than one person follow Hill around and learn everything he teaches.

This way, the Pirates can replicate all of what Hill taught on a permanent basis going forward.

Then Hill is not needed.

But Knowing the Pirates lack of wisdom, I doubt he did this.

What has been proven from Hill's tenure is that the Pirates can be the best fielding team in the league and still be the worst national league team.

Why?

Because they need at least 2 more, and bettter yet, 3 more extra base power hitters in the lineup on a regular basis if they are even going to think about winning, let alone contend for anything.

And I got news for you Neil - Milledge, Pearce and Andy Laroche are not in that category.

Technically he did decide that he doesn't want to coach.  Because the Pirates exercised his option, Hill's choices were coach here or not coach at all.  He chose not to coach this year.  The statement isn't inaccurate.

The Pirates are going to lose 100 games next year and Huntington will be fired. I've had bosses like him. We all have. It's his way or else. He is going to be another bad footnote in Pirate history. Please get rid of Neal and JR.

Sano, Alvarez, and Hill are just three negotiations that Neal has botched.

I can't wait for this soap opera to end.  It is starting to be just like the one with Dirty Doug.

I like Hill and I wish he was coming back.  But he decided he didn't want to.  Lets all move on.

I think pitching coach is the most important coach on the staff.

If Hill is considered to be an A+ when it comes to being an infield coach,  maybe Tony Beasley can be a B or B+.  And that might be just fine.

I agree with POH and Markln on the Morgan and McLouth trades.

AMac has a far higher upside.  Mclouth hit 20 HR this season with a .256 BA.  Amac hit 12 in 150 less at bats with .286 BA.  Amac also has far higher upside as CF.  Mclouth made it clear he did not move from center.  Morton and Hernandez both have high potential and Morton has shown a bit of that.

Morgan is a 29 year old CF who played left.  Milledge has much greater potential too.  Hanrahan pitched very well out the pen.  

Cajun Thunder -

I will agree with you on #2, but disagree on #1.

I do think that Huntington's weak area is personal relationships, but I do like the signs I am seeing so far at talent evaluation.

As far as Huntington's demotion in Cleveland, from the Cleveland based opinions I have read on it, you could say that they point to Huntington being very strong on talent evaluation, but that the weakness was more on the management side.

That seems to be what I'm seeing here. I think Huntington is a very smart guy and I hope that he examines how he has handled these situations and learns to present things so that even if parties need to part ways, they can feel Ok with how things were handled.

From the article that was in the PPG on Sunday, Neal never said that Hill didn't want to coach anywhere.

Ok- My pitchfork for Saturday is ready!!

What would 2009 have looked like if Perry Hill had never coached for the Pirates. The Bucs still would have lost a lot games. They still would have traded Wilson, Sanchez, et all (perhaps getting a smaller return for Wilson and Sanchez). The Delwyn Young experiment at 2b may have been shorter or may not have happened. Perry Hill may be the greatest coach who ever lived and it still may not matter.

I think that the strong reaction toward the Hill resignation shows how much of a toll the 17 yrs of losing has taken on intense fans like us. How many teams have fanbases that even know who their infield instructor was? This is a fanbase that still complains about the trade of an slightly above average outfielder whose name is commonly misspelled (McLouth/McClouth) by those complaining. This is a fanbase that is sad over losing a weak hitting, slick fielding, oft injured SS because he is the only guy to be here for a big chunk of the 17 yrs.

I love the PIrates do or die and am as sick of the losing as I am the lousy economy but losing Perry Hill will not cause me to lose sleep tonight.  

People... so much acrimony, you'd think the draft or trade deadline was around the corner.

I will respectively disagree with JAL, Mark and Hope ( and Hope, you can put up to 9 centerfielders at the same time, but only play One in centerfield at a time. The Pirates had two Centerfielders with Morgan/ McLouth and Morgan/McCutchen and even some would say with McCutchen/Milledge.

My problem with the McLouth trade is the overvalue of Hernandez, and the feeling that he HAD to be traded at that time. I don't have a problem in trading to make the team better. I do diagree at times with the Pirates talent evaluators, and in this case with timing.

But I have made these point many times, and chose not to beat people who don't agree with me over the head.

BTW Mark,

Great job on the statistical stuff recently.

LV... is that Lehigh Valley Pirates fan???

I think the Pirates pitching staff benefitted most from Perry Hill, and expect a regression in next year's staff because of his absence.

( BTW.. IF LV is Lehigh Valley, great to know I'm not alone in Phillie land)

@POH:

"The McLouth trade made sense. Someone was ready to take the place.... you can only put one centerfielder out on the field at one time."

___________

Not true...especially when we've heard again and again how the ideal thing would be to have a CF playing the huge LF at PNC. Perhaps a CF with some power...maybe 20-25HR power? Morton is garbage. Well, maybe not "garbage", but exactly how are we better of with Morton than we would have been with one of our other 25 AAAA pitching prospects (McCutchen, Dumatrait, Gorzy before he was dealt...etc.). Gorkys Hernandez hasn't done anything...and guess what...he also happens to be a CF. A no-power CF, which means he's worthless as a corner outfielder.

I loved Morgan, but I do think they made a good decision buying low on Milledge. However, the Bay and McLouth trades have just been downright pitiful...which is sad, considering those are the two best assets we had to trade away.

Funny that Xavier Nady brought us more in return than both Bay AND McLouth put together. Actually...more sad than funny...where's my bottle of vodka?!?!

At the pro level you've got to assume there is plenty of "knowledge" and healthy egos.

Could've gone like this:

"Well, son, you may think you're a baseball genius because you're carting around a psych degree from Amherst, but let me tell you how it's done..."

"Well, pap, I have to worry about the big picture in the contemporary baseball world and my ass is on the line. Do you want your check signed?"

Doc

I will respectively  disagree back--Too early to say Hernandez was overvalued--he is only 21 years old and was hitting .316 in AA at the time of trade--fell off to .262 after it but that is not a disaster.  He may develop and he may not.

Not  a Gorkys fan.  Toolsy player but reminds me of a Willie McGhee without doubles power.  

If the guy does not want to be here, then see you later.  We need owners, front office personnel, coaches, players, announcers, beat writers, etc., that want to be an integral part of this historic multi-decade rebuilding effort, the Pirates overall "mystique," and most importantly, the inevitable drive to championship number 6.  Remember, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.  There are 29 other teams out there for individuals that would rather contribute elsewhere.  

Warmer weather and the ball flying out in Philly--4 HR in the first 3 innings--4-2 Phils after 3

Unfortunately...outside of the trade with the Yankees...and the minor league free agent signing of Garrett Jones...there isn't too much I can find to prove that Neal's talent evaluation is better than an average GM. MAYBE the Nationals trade...but the rest...I don't see anyone performing above their peers in the minors...let alone performing like a top prospect. When some of the 2008-2009 draft picks make the majors we can critique the talent evaluation at the amateur level...but what I'm seeing from acquisitions outside the Yankees trade...I am VERY unimpressed.

WSB

My bigger concern with Gorkys is that he has a terrible walk to strikeout ratio..

JAl.... love the respective part. Makes it much easier to voice opposing positions.

Reading...

I am not sure if the drive for a Pirate championship. in this era of baseball inequality could ever be called " inevitable"

Hopeful, OK.

Inevitable, I'd probably go with improbable more.

and remember Reading, 28 of those other teams out there are better baseball teams than the Pirates.

(Yeah Nationals!!)

Go Phils!!!

@ Doc: LV might be Vegas. But I can tell you that my wife grew up one block from Lehigh University. We enjoy visiting a couple times a year.

LVPirateFan...what would the 2009 Pirates have looked like without Perry Hill??

Probably about 5-10 more losses...closer to the Nats record. Work with the infielders probably saved at a minimum...20-30 runs during the season for the pitchers. If his theories and training allowed each infielder to successfully field 1 more ball a week (not unreasonable at all)...that's 100 baserunners he's saved the pitchers...and 20-30 runs out of that is not unreasonable. Remember...not all those ball that don't get fielded result in errors. A fair amount end up ruled as hits...so it wouldn't be as noticeable in fielding stats.

the work that perry did which was good only points to the poor work done before him.

there once was a young lad named perry

who seems to be a bit of too much wary

dont let the door slam

back into its jam

since your gone we will not be the less merry

Doc

The "inevitable" drive to championship no. 6 means just that- that the Pirates will embark on an attempt each year to win championship no. 6.  It does not necessarily mean that they will ever reach the promised land.  Kind of like being approved for a loan "up to $100,000."  That could mean a loan anywhere from $0.01 to $100,000.    Right now, the Pirates are approved for $0.02.  That is, of course, dependent upon the Nationals only being approved for $0.01.  

Cajun

Guess that Buckley, Jewett and Hill (just as 3 examples in the last year) aren't good coaches...no matter what players or others may say about them?? More like...they didn't necessarily agree with Neal and Frank's view.

__________________________

How do you know they didn't necessarily agree with Neal and Franks view? I never heard that!

No one said that players could not say anything, they get interviewed on Fox all the time, I don't see all those players leaving. I think the amount that stay or want to stay is considerably greater than the amount of ones that go.

The way I see it, you do not want to be a pittsburgh Pirate :

Good by we have no room for crybaby's.

Doc

Agree, these are just opinions and everyone has opinions. Not like our baseball opinions will affect world affairs :)

Gotcha reading....

Thanks!

JAL,affecting World Affairs.

I don't know  about you, but as a small boy growing up in Northeast PA only 2 kids in my class were Pirate fans. Me, and some guy who is now a US senator from PA.

Just sayin...

Looks like our cross-state rival (although playing the team only 6 times a year hardly satisfies the requirement for rival status) will advance once again.  We can spot them two more WS Championships before they start threatening the Pirates state record of 5.  

JJ

The way I see it, you do not want to be a pittsburgh Pirate :

Good by we have no room for crybaby's.

____________________________

I would have been nice to keep Hill, but if he did not want to be here I hope they go out and get another good one and not just give Beasley the Job, I think he had the job before Hill got it.

Jersey Joe... don't pick fights, don't call people crybabies. The with us or against stuff didn't work in Iraq 2, and it certainly doesn't have a place on a free exchange forum

Watching the Phillies win is worse than watching the Pirates lose. The worst fans in sports. I hope the Yankees cream them.

I've been saying all along that the right thing for the Pirates to do was to blow it all up. The question has been do they have the right people doing it. I've been on the side of giving Neal and Frank time, but as time goes on, Huntington looks more and more... I don't know what to call it. Peculiar? I guess that's the best word. Not foolish. The trades have been (IMO) on the whole a positive. Some of those were gambles. Some have looked great. And they look like geniuses with their first round draft pick this year. The jury's still out on some of the moves. At least one trade, Bay, looks like a bust. On the whole, I think their player moves have been good to slightly better than good. But the Hill situation, the Alvarez fiasco, the Sano debacle... These have to be detrimental in the long term in attracting talented coaches and free agents. His quote concerning Hill was, "he does not want to coach." Which most people would take to mean, you know, he doesn't want to coach! He just flat-out misrepresented the whole thing. I'm sure he meant that in the same way a dad would say, "I told you I'd get you your own car if you got your grades up. You didn't get your grades up, son. I guess that means you don't want to have your own car." But dad doesn't then tell a reporter, "My son doesn't want his own car."

Sometimes, this guy is a real knucklehead. I don't know if it's enough to send him packing yet, but it's coming to that in a hurry. One more dumb stunt like this, and I don't see how they keep the guy, even if the talent he acquired does start to turn it around next year.

juniata...

My biggest complaint is he feels, and this totally a feeling, I have no evidence at all to back it up, that he ihas to be the smartest kid in the room. That he takes unnecessary, cutsie chances. God know every other management method, short of spending failed, but I am not sure this is the right one.

The Bay trade was an example of being cute, and the Cubs trade was one where he tried to outsmart the Cubs, and was outsmarted himself. The McLouth trade, necessary eventually was " an offer he couldn't refuse" yet, what did he get back but Kip Wells 2, Adrian Brown 2 et al at a time where if he held out he might have gotten more.

Too many chances, too many Argenis Diazes.

Doc

Well, certainly fans can get in positions that affect world affairs but I doubt the Senator ever uses his opinion on a baseball player to draft a bill that affects other countries :)

The title of this tread would appear to qualify as a potential team slogan:  "But not with the Pirates."

It is highly adaptable to many common baseball situations.  For example, a great free agent pitcher or hitter might hypothetically say, "I'll sign with nearly any team, but not with the Pirates."  

BNWTP

leadoff

Before the series the one advantage the Dodgers were supposed to have was the pen but it has let them down so far.

Yes, but maybe it was the effect of the Blass vs. Moose, Robertson/Clendenon discussions that paved his way.

Or maybe it was a famous name.

But never discount... "The Pirate Effect"!

demery @ 7:40-

if bucs lose 100 in 2010 JRs head rolls [respectfully]

if bucs lose 100 in 2011 FO core/group gets the plank [respectfully] and bucs sold to walmart, target or former soviet kgb agent...or asylum co-op

HOW BOUT IT?

JAL

Before the series the one advantage the Dodgers were supposed to have was the pen but it has let them down so far.

______________________________

True the pens have let the Dodgers down, but also both the Dodgers and the Angels have the same problem, the biggest problem for both is the lack of power. The same problem the Pirates have now.

Jal-  I've seen Gorkys play 6 times..  not one hit 4k and 1 BB  a High A. I was furious with the McClouth trade.

Juniata

___________________

the Alvarez fiasco,

____________________________

Why was that a Pirate fiasco? I have not seen evidence to that fact!

All that I saw was an agent that wanted to negotiate as long as it would take to get as much as he could get, holding out to the last minute.

I have yet to see anyone prove the "fiasco" as you put it be something that the front office caused.

I saw a FO that negotiated the way it should have been done, the agent wanted over 9mil, he got 6.3 mil I believe. What's the big deal?

Doc,

You are right that McLouth didn't need to be traded when he was traded. You are right he could have played right field and you are also probably right that that would have made the Pirates a better team in 2009.

However, McLouth wasn't traded to make the club better in 2009. He was traded to make the team better in 2010 and beyond.

If McLouth was not traded when he was, it's pretty clear that his value would likely be less next year when Tabata was ready to come up and Huntington would want to make room for him. Even if he would have have moved to right field, this would have lowered his value even more.

The Braves desperately wanted McLouth to fill a major hole in CF, and gave up both Morton and Locke, neither of which they would include for Jake Peavy.

McLouth's bat is a little above average as a CF, but just average as a RF. Therefore, he's not any great loss for the future. The Pirates could find an average RF in any number of ways.

If Morton becomes an above average starting pitcher (highly likely) or if Morton is just an average starter and either Locke or Gorkys becomes a solid MLB player, then the Pirates come out ahead in this deal.

Mark,

I was in favor of McLouth being traded at the deadline, but otherwise I agree with your logic.

My biggest issues are:

a. I disagree with the highly likely Morton. I think there is a better chance he is the next Kip Wells, 5 K arm, 5 cent make-up.

b. I don't see how a low power, low OBP OF'er makes it except as a fifth outfielder defensive replacement. I see little else in Gorkys.

c. Locke is actually my biggest hope in bailing out this deal.

From what I hear from some people close to the situation, it would be safe to say that Perry Hill wants to coach - just not under John Russell. Nothing against the city or the people or the players - it's JR.  And who can blame him?  I understand Kerrigan is in the same boat but is likely to take over as the new manager when JR is officially canned next year.

MYTH #1: The Bay trade is a bust.

===================================================

When a trade is a "bust", it means you didn't get at least one decent MLB player in return.

Andy LaRoche is rated in 2009 as an average MLB player. Andy's wOBA+ is 101, and his UZR/150 is +3.6. Andy's WAR in 2009 is +2.6. All of these numbers show Andy LaRoche as an average MLB player.

In comparison, Jason Bay, in his ROY 2004 season, was +2.2 WAR.

So, even if none of the other prospects do much of anything in the majors, the trade was not a bust.

Mark - Your definition of "bust" needs some work.

I think that when you trade away your best player, an All Star, good character, top notch player and the best thing you get is one average MLB player... I call that a bust.

Phils win, Phils win.

And you heard it here first, they will defend their WS championship.

I wish I had time to analyze the Perry Hill situation to show how this is a big black eye for the FO, but I don't, so let me just say that there are people on here who, if Neal shot his wife, would find a way to justify it or explain it away or complain that other people on here just want to complain about Neal.  The boy doesn't have something.  Wake UP!  Remember, if he is the wrong guy, all that has been accomplished is that the PBC's return to excellence has been delayed by at least 3 years, minimum. And I'm real tired of hearing that every boy genius misstep is a result of him not meaning what he says.

And, please, the Bay trade was good if Andy ends up being an average major league 3rd or 2nd baseman?  Puh-leese!  And, Mark, I certainly don't know a tenth of what you know about statistics, but common sense tells you you can't compare the WAR of an infielder against the WAR of an outfielder to come to a conclusion about the relative worth of those players. Bay was the freaking ROY!

OK, I feel better, a little.

Unfortunate reality:  Since 1980, Phillies have 5 World Series appearances, Pirates 0 appearances.  But we knew that already.

Arriba, what else was Huntingdon supposed to say?

As regards the two-year contract he signed with the Pirates, if the man decided not to honor that contract, and not return to the Pirates, he was essentially saying "I don't want to coach," because he's not able to coach anywhere else, next year, under his contract.

Would you have felt better if Huntingdon had said, "Perry Hill just doesn't want to coach for the Pittsburgh Pirates?" I don't really see where that would have been any better or more true than what he said.

JoeBucco -

That would be an interesting scoop about Hill and JR if true. :-)

-> I think that when you trade away your best player, an All Star, good character, top notch player and the best thing you get is one average MLB player... I call that a bust.

-----------------------------------------------------------

So, if Alderson becomes a starting pitcher with an ERA of 4.00, that's a bust?

www.fangraphs.com/.../freddy-sanchez-for-who-seriously

I think many people have unrealistic expectations when it comes to trades. Trades are a way to augment your talent pool when you are drafting well. But to expect all your best players to come from trades is unrealistic. You can get some very good players, but you just can't expect them all to turn into gold.

Here the Pirates have gotten 2.6 WAR from Andy LaRoche in his first full year with the Pirates, and Jason Bay was only 2.2 WAR in his first year with the Pirates at the same age. But somehow Andy is a bust whereas Bay has become Pirate's best player All-Star Jason Bay.

Do you think Andy might have a few years to become an All-Star?

Of course, the Pirates had 2 players this year - Cutch and Jones - that were better players than Bay. So Andy won't get the easy road to the All-Star game like Bay and McLouth did.

All-Star Jason wouldn't even be the best player on the Pirates this year, yet people expected Andy LaRoche, Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen all to be superstars by now.

I guess we'll just have to see. I've got a very good feeling about Andy next year.

Bay--hate to disagree with you, buddy, but if you think Neal's statement was true and factual, the only thing I can say is go back and look again at "Absence of Malice."  The clear implication of Neal's pathetic statement was Hill didn't want to coach next year, i.e., he wanted to do something other than coach, like many on here speculated, like spend time with his family.  If you don't see the difference I can't help.  But maybe they can fix that by firing the public relations guy.  He didn't have to say "he just doesn't want to work for the PBC" explicitly, but there are many many alternatives between that and what he said.  Just ask JAL.  He could have said "we tried every avenue we could, but we couldn't reach common ground."  There does seem to be the hint of an ethical problem IMO, when they agreed not to discuss the reasons in public, and I don't blame Hill for responding to Neal's statement.

plenty of hope wrote: Demery - The McLouth trade made sense. Someone was ready to take the place

last time i looked they play 3 outfielders  in baseball..go lay down guy...the nonsensical spew of you and Leadoff make the babbling of my 3 yr old kid einstein-like

this front office is a joke....you and the other chuckleheads keep on talking about altoona and other low minor prospects ...while the rest of the fans with real mlb front offices lookforward to the near future

Raise the Jollly Rancher!

srsly

markindallas writes:That seems to be what I'm seeing here. I think Huntington is a very smart guy ...."

your making that statement strongly confirmsthat yur arent...sorry

srsly

I get it...Hill doesnt want to coach here because from his immediate boss Mr. Russell...on up they talk progress from their mouths but continue to regress with their actions...intelligent people are difficult to fool...obviously Mr. Hill is intelligent...he would rather sit out 2010 or get the option released and coach again elsewhere  than deal with his bosses that talk down to intelligent people but keep the dummys buying tickets...good for you Mr. Hill....I suggest the pirates start treating ALL their fans as intelligent and quit milking the dummys.

First and foremost, Perry Hill is a coach. Can you imagine a hitting coach for the Yankees quitting because of the trades that Brian Cashman made or if the WR coach of the Steelers walked because he didn't like the way Kevin Colbert drafted? Does the hitting coach quit on the A's because Matt Holiday was traded? I don' t doubt Perry Hill is a great infield instructor but his job is to COACH, not to be involved in the day to day operations of the Pirates.

Good for you Perry Hill. Who wants to sit and watch another 100 loss season. Why would I want to work for a loser of a corporation. Let em pay you for a year. Regroup and coach at a local high school or college to you. Have fun. I can assure you, suffering through 2010 with this Pirate organzation is not worth the grief. I probably will not renew my $300 baseball channel in 2010. Its too depressing watching this debacle of a poorly run team, and who knows what will be in the line up by end of 2010, all your hard work could be traded to another team, like in 2008-09.

Smart business move. Very simple one. The reward is not worth the grief.

David

NICE TRY, Neal, to "manage" the news.  Thank goodness, Perry would have none of it!