Pirates finish with 99 losses

So it ends with a shutout.  No surprise.  Now on to the off-season after a terrible season.

AmarilloFats.........62-99 / 126 HR's  wins the prediction contest.  Predicted the exact record and missed the number of home runs by 1 as the Pirates hit 125.

It's over.  Time to start fixing things.

The 17 domination is eerie

99 Loss Balloons...

A miserable end to a miserable season.

JAL

Yes it is!

MrB

Haha very creative.

Mr B

Very good--maybe they can get Nena to perform next opening day :)

JAL

Even though I misplaced the decimal point mistakingly giving you 20 posts per hour instead of two, you remain a "dedicated follower of passion".  Good work.

@marty34156 - Unfortunately, it popped into my head immediately upon the final out. Now, I can't get the damn ditty out of my head...over and over...

...Please anyone help me or join me in my descent into Pirate madness.

99 loss balloons....99 loss balloons...99 loss balloons...

BWA-HA-HA-HAA!!!!!!!!!!!

Sad to see George Grande leaving the Reds broadcast booth.  He has always been one of my favourite out of town announcers.

They had a nice tribute to him during the game with colleagues, ex players and even the commish calling to wish him well.

It reminds me how poorly the Lanny Fratere departure was handled and what a shame it was that he didn't have some recognition on his last day.

Maybe that was Lanny's wish, however.  

Cave

Thank you

Gee, thanks for getting that song stuck in my head!  I can't seem to remember all the words in English, but I know most of the German version.  

WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT

reds series was not the way to end the season, and explains the skin patches where my hair used to be. so many disappointments, only some thin unfounded expectations and hopes for next season. I think I have less confidence for next year than I have left any recent seasons ending. we have hope the group will get better. yet, if you love teh guys you must stick with them through thick and thin. been thin a long while. like a parent whose kids all seem to need tutors to get through math.

we have to hope someone brings some wood to the spring and better legs and leather up the middle. sorry to see SO MANY misfires go awry- biKKsler, P-RNW, Pearce, vazquez, cruz, and our others in the .200 club. I am not confident andy is an answer for much. DY is so far from being consistent. legend, blastings and clutch look like maybe major league stuff; I am not convinced moss is done, and I agree he didn't get the long runs needed to see wazzup.

sorry to see snell, gorzo, booty, dumatrait, capps, hart, vv, dennyB get hit again and again. we have to hope kerwin can do another ollie on a few more pitchers.

not at all convinced the mgr is right for the club. will be interesting to see what the FO pulls out of their 'hat' over the winter to lure us into believing.

awesome correspondent who tells it like it is [and isn't when needed] and thanks to fellow asylum residents for making a totally awful year more interesting to live in/through and a great place to lurk and toss my bedpan on occasion. sorry for any mess left unattended. I assume like all years, my stress factures, bruises and nicks and cuts will heal and various therapies will ready me for another season in spring. the meds are great, but I'll continue to be skeptical of the kool-aid. I'm considering a ted williams-like frozen head treatment for myself until spring as alternate, just in case the avatar goes on vacation from the board.

FOLD UP THE JOLLY ROGER

Someone has to be held accountable for the dismal season.  I suggest that they layoff some front office folks, fire the clubhouse guy and whack a few of those ushers. These folks obviously did not put our 2009 Bucs in a position to win. Is Joe L. Brown still alive?

I frankly find it disgraceful on the parts of FSN and the PBC that the final game of the season isn't televised.  

I am fortunate enough to have the MLB package so I got to see all of the games in September but it is a shame that those in Pittsburgh can't give the Bucs an on air farewell.  

Seventeen losing seasons or not, the Pirates fans deserve better.  Shutting down their broadcasts, especially the final one, is a selfish and short sighted decision,  which hopefully will be properly addressed and rectified next year.  

MrB,

For someone critical of others, you yourself seem like you 'are self-addicted to posting, whether or not you have anything substantial to state'.

DK

Thank you for a great job this year and your ever vigilant reporting.

You have taken excellence in journalism to a new high water mark.  

How to improve for next year:

Fire JR

Get Pedro and Tabata here ASAP

Can Capps

Fix the 'Pen

Doing those may buy the Buccos 10-12 more victories ya never know.

Cave...I totally agree with you on the lack of TV coverage here in Pittsburgh this past week.  Our last TV game was the 2nd game of the DH.  It would have been nice to have had at the very least the last game of the season televised here.

DK

Thank you for yet another great year of covering everything PBC related.

Does anyone know when pitchers and catchers report ?

DMac - Please forgive me, but I'm afraid at times misery truly does love company.

Cave - I don't normally make a point of listening to opposing announcers unless I have to, but I was quite impressed with the quality of the Reds broadcast. George Grande gave them 17 years (there's that number again) of class broadcasting. I saw the tribute and he deserved every kind word.

As for Lanny, I've only heard speculation and I REALLY would rather not go there other than to state that I enjoyed his work and do miss his coverage.

Well. To think I spent the day sleeping and missed out on this gem. Thanks to JAL and DMac for all their hard work. To DK, I still think your a hack and a rumor monger and I'm moving on to the Dear Abby Blog. But, take heart: You can still rock in America!

Wait til next year!....<fingers crossed>

        ANNIVERSARY GATHERING

          October 24th, noon time

           Vincents of Greentree

                Special Guest

              Mr Frank Coonelly

            LImited seating available

            RESERVE YOUR SEAT

                            to

              tjfran@comcast.net

       Questions for MR. Coonellly

        can be submitted by emailling to

              tjfran@comcast.net

                    No tie req

           gathering news update

Since the crowd is growing one simple rule of courtesy is in order.

Everyone gets the chance for a questioin before anyone asks a second question

One other thing. Go easy on JR guys. He probably has kids or a dog or a kitty and you wouldn't want all this negativity to get back to Snowball, would you?

Remember a genius is someone who has made all the mistakes in a very specific field of study. So John's getting his out of the way early. You know John Wooden didn't win his first NCAA Championship until his 19th year as head coach. What's another 17 years among friends?

Oh well... Motoring!

Las Vegas Pirate Fan:

I think even you would agree that there is a difference between making an occasional random fun post compared to DIRECTLY QUOTING another poster, who has posed a specific question to a specific person and responding/hijacking with an opinionated reply that doesn't answer the question. You're damn right I'm critical of that.

As far as posting addiction, we can compare post counts, frequency or any other measure you like anytime. You'll find my numbers to be quite moderate. Believe me, the number of posts that anyone makes here is not directly proportional to contributal value.

In other words, size doesn't matter.

#2 pick in next year's draft is all ours!!!!!!!

Nice tank job guys to ensure our future success!!!!!!

We know, wink wink, you were trying your best all year long.

Just a sad state of affairs. Another Pittsburgh Pirates baseball season ends in typical debacle fashion. No Runs on 10 hits!!!!

The trades did nothing to improve this team IMO. Per my tiny little review, 2nd half we were 22-48. First half we were 40-51.

The season Road Record was  22-58 which is  just ridiculous.

Our 3-10 record vs  the bumbling along CinCin Reds in the 2nd half of season did not help!  

Nuthouse gang and his circus circus management team could not have performed any worse in this creation of a  team disaster. I see very little going forward, and to expect rookies to save this team in 2-3 yrs is just wasteful hope IMO.

Please don't go line for line, trade for trade, arm chair quarter back opinion per opinion and argue with me :-----)! I will suck it up as next season closes in. But for now, I am just chopped up hamburger of a fan and no faith in the players and especially no faith in whom we pay to manage and preside over this beloved baseball franchise. Total disaster of a season.

David

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Roger Hornsby

It was nice to see that Steve Pierce got an extra base hit in his last AB as a Pirate!

Dejan,

Your picture above is beautiful and hideous at the same time.

The beauty and simplicity of baseball; the layout of the field; the sun; the green  .  .  .  

The emptiness of the stadium, the bases, the hope for the Pirates  .  .  .  .  

What's that line from "3 Days of the Condor" about the emptiness of the pictures?  Your picture draws me and pushes me away at the same time.

Sort of like the Pirates!

Well, that's it for this season.  I don't know about the rest of the asylum, but I'm ready to start yammering about next season.  All of the minor league baseball card sets are in so I know how I'll be spending the next week.  Let me know if you want to see any of these cards.

Cave-I watched it.Not a thing of beauty.Pirates RISP-0-13 and 13 LOB.At least I didn't throw anything at the tv.Actually not seeing it could keep your blood pressure down.The last couple innings the announcers hardly talked about the game.Kind of a surrealist finish.So....you didn't miss much.IMO

something should be said on the list about the Bucs leading all of MLB in defense...not just a franchise record.  number 1 in fielding percentage and fewest errors of the 30 teams.  When was the last time a team with 99 losses (or more) led all of baseball in defense?  probably never.

also, it was George Grande's final day as broadcaster for the Reds on FSOhio to go along with Hal's.  Best of luck to George.

From DK-@JLP: I want your old avatar back, where my picture is defaced. Either that, or let me use it myself.

I thought that was the new DK.:-)

 Or maybe you were a new Musketeer.En garde asylum.

It was a long season that began with little more than optimism, but somehow spring training turned that optimism into hope.  Management stood pat through the winter while we argued about Adam Dunn and Bobby Abreu and a host of other free agents and possible trades.  Despite it all, the kids looked good through spring training -- and there was genuine optimism when the season started, spllit four the Cards and really should have had three of them, and kept beating teams that had good records; 11-7 after the San Diego series, and then the implosion in Milwaukee.  It sucked the air out of the season.  They kept trying and trying and coming up short, and the next thing you knew Nate was gone.

There was all that anti-Nyjer sentiment here on the blog and so we built a Nyjer bus and it was a good idea and then there was a LaRoche coach -- and Andy started hitting and Cutch came along, and it wasn't like the start, but you could feel the spirit building up and started to get excited again -- and then they traded Morgan.  Wow, that was tough to take.

And Snell just up and quit.

And we kept regrouping and regrouping and the trade rumors and the gossip and all of a sudden it wasn't fun any more.  We started losing games that we should have won.  A different calamity every night.  Score a bunch of runs and the bullpen would leak, pitch good and we couldn't hit a weather balloon with a barndoor.  Capps started blowing up on a regular basis.  

A few breaths of air -- Jones came along, then Milledge and we realized we had a couple of pitchers in Ohly and Duke.  But, be honest, it was a bunch of rookies with that deer in the headlights look.  Murphy's law took hold.  Jack demanded they keep Freddy, and oh yeah now their both gone.  

Good trades, bad trades -- maybe and who cares.  

What have we got?  I really don't know.  Maybe than can piece something together out of this crew next year.  Maybe not.  I hope they can though.  It's been a long time since we've had much to cheer about.  

I think there's a nucleus in there.  I really do.  But I guess we'll have to wait until next year.

I think Lanny didn't announce his 'retirement' until after the season was over so they couldn't have a ceremony for him on his last game.

And I think I read a story about him at the beginning of the season that said the Pirates wanted to include him in the opening day festivities or have a special ceremony for him but He decided against it.

Wasn't George Grande on of the original ESPN hosts of sports center?

T-crack

Yes, Grande was on the very first Sportscenter

On the bright side, I won't have to hear those ridiculous PNC bank radio commercials anymore. Those were awful.

Probably going to fairly quiet her tonight as another Pittsburgh team that has problems with its offense is playing tonight:)

Very disappointing end to the season. Still, I'm looking forward to next spring and seeing how many pieces come together. When you turn over the whole roster, you should expect some disasters.

Still, the finds of this year have been wonderful. I definitely can imagine Cutch, Jones, Milledge, Andy, Ohlie and Morton on a competitive club soon.

The questions for next year are going to be Tabata and Alvarez, as well as who can be found for the bullpen and possibly right field or first base.

Here's to hoping these questions are answered with huge positive additions!

JAL, not quite for too long,

Maz, I jnow break in the count down to the OS.

From those of us who do actually like the team and like to see them get better and mature, during this off season work hard and remember:

www.youtube.com/watch

bucsfancents80 wrote re:

something should be said on the list about the Bucs leading all of MLB in defense

WOW oh Wow, how could that be missed or just editied out since it does show some light on this team

Tell me one team that would not want that on their off season resume?

Not a word about it, intentions revealed

www.youtube.com/watch

 Not that it would have lead to a 9th inning rally, but it would have been nice to let Matt Capps pitch the 8th, and hopefully end the season on a positive note.

 I guess Russell wanted to see Hacker pitch in back to back games, knowing the logic of that Jackal.

    All those guys in the pen, and in order, Veal, Bautista, and Hacker finished up the most disgusting year the Pirates have had , in all my time as a loyal fan(since 1971).

     Did the FO make fire Russell yet?, or are they still going to strong arm the fan's by really bring this fool back for another season?.

   They can't be serious about really trying to change ANYTHING if they believe there are no better alternatives out there to lead these guys forward.

   His leadership, and game day management are severely lacking, and i really don't see any UPSIDE with having him stick it out for 1 more year.

    If THE GROUP is somewhat in place, then a competent field boss should be in charge, right from the start in 2010.

   No young major league player can or will find success when the team has an albatross , like they have now, running the show.

   He's just not the guy to do this job.

   If it's about the money, and his remaining 1 year on his contract,well that is just a poor excuse, for keeping him on board.

   IF FC @ NH keep this guy for 1 more year, this will be by far, the worst move they have made , going into year 3 of the PLAN.

   I hate the comments Russell is making now, like he WILL return for 2010. I just hope he is shown the door, the sooner, the better.!!!!!!!!!!!

The pen--the pen was first hurt by injury as neither Yates nor Hansen lasted long, then Meek went down.  Add that they only kept veal so they would not lose him  and you have a short pen.  They had to keep digging deeper to fill the pen. Then Capps had some very bad outings and they traded Grabow.  

On the plus side, Chavez pitched well most of the season and should get better and Hanrahan pitched well after they got him.    Who to put with them --who knows what Claggett and Hacker might provide.  Should be w wide open fight for pen spots and maybe a good place to pick up an FA though not likel;y to give up a draft choice for a type A middle reliever so would have to be someone not offered arbitration by their team.

Tomp,  relax cause

www.youtube.com/watch

JAL, with the coming of Pitcher mc cutch and whats his name that just won the overseas championship game, we may just be seeein some current starters hit the pen to say

www.youtube.com/watch

JJ

That is Lincoln who was on the US team.  

Some starters never make it as relievers just some hitters do not make good pinch hitters.  

Cutch, Jones, Milledge, Andy, Ohlie and Morton , mark wrote,

we both want ot be

www.youtube.com/watch

jersey,

all of that defensive stuff is all the more impressive when you realize the turnover on this team all season long.  perhaps someone will take note of it because there has to be some sort of history involved here when a team loses 99 yet beats the other 29 teams in terms of fewest errors and a .988 fpct.

its sort of interesting that the top 3 defensive teams in the big leagues are all not playoff bound.

Bucs  73 errors

2. Blue Jays  76

3. Astros  78

BUT teams ranked 4-9 (FPCT) are all going to the playoffs (if the Twins win Tuesday)

4. MIN 76

5. PHL 76

6. LAA 85

7. BOS 82

8. COL 87

9. LAD 83

That's all folks.  Game 163 Tuesday at 5pm.  Cant wait.

team that led mlb in fewest errors and corresponding number of wins for that season since 2000:

2000 Indians 72 errors 90 wins

2001 SEA 83 errors 116 wins

2002 MIN 74 errors 94 wins

2003 SEA 65 errors 93 wins

2004 LAD 73 errors 93 wins

2005 ATL 86 errors 90 wins

2006 BOS 66 errors 86 wins

2007 COL 68 errors 90 wins

2008 HOU 67 errors 86 wins

2009 PIT 73 errors 99 LOSSES

wow did we really become the outlier in this range or what??  

Here is my opening day 2010 line-up and record prediction.

CF - Andrew McCutchen

2nd - Andy LaRoche

1st - Garrett Jones

C - Ryan Doumit

LF - Lasting Milledge

3B - Neil Walker (until PA arrives)

RF - Brandon Moss (until Tabata arrives)

SS - Ronny Cedeno

P - Zach Duke

Rotation

Zach Duke

Ross Ohlendorf

Paul Maholm

Charlie Morton

Daniel McCutchen or Kevin Hart or Brad Lincoln (probably later)

Closer - Matt Capps

I predict this team will go 73-89 next year.

more:

1999 NYM 68E 97 wins

1998 BAL 81 E  79 wins-83 losses (first instance of a sub .500 team leading the ML in fewest errors prior to us this year. still not 99 losses and BAL ranked 16th out of 30 in terms of best record that year)

1997 KC 91 errors  67-94 that season.  

1996 TEX 87 E  90 wins

1995 BAL 72 E 71 wins in a shortened season

1994 BAL 57 errors 63 wins ditto short season

1993 SEA 90 errors 82 wins

1992 MIL 89 errors 92 wins

1991 BAL 91 errors 67-95 record.  (worse than KC in '97)

1990 TOR 86 errors 86 wins

there's 20 seasons worth

Good evening inmates near and far. Thank You to DK for all the great articles/coverage this season. Particuarly during those crazy trade deadline days. JAL, thanks to you too for everything you bring to us every day. And to everyone who participated on the blog, it has become an enjoyable, daily habit.  And JJ, thanks for organizing the gatherings.

1989 BAL 87 errors 87 wins

1988 MIN 84 errors 91 wins

1987 MIN 98 E 85 wins

1986 TOR 100 E 86 wins

1985 STL 108 E 101 wins

1984 STL 118 errors 84 wins

1983 MIL/TEX both 113 errors TEX 85W MIL 87W

1982 BAL 101 errors 94 wins

1981 DET 67 errors 60-49 short season

1980 BAL 95 errors 100 wins

so you get the idea, most teams that led MLB were successful ballclubs over the past 30 years.  now I am looking for the record in losses without a post per year.  if something is there..it'll be posted.  Elias probably could have already taken care of this for us.

radio

You are welcome and thank you for the kind words.

Bucfans-  That is an amazing run there.  The pirates this year gave themselves very little margin for error.  

Garrett Jones will be a really nice player and Cutch is legitimate.   Assuming the Pirates return with the same team next year, its a 75 win team.  I'd strongly consider moving Andy to 1B or 2B, but that is just me.  I like his attitude and he vastly improved himself this season.  

The question I have is how do you improve yourself into next year.  On my shopping list are 3 players..

1) Vlad Guerrero.  Tabata isn't fully ready yet.  Vlad automatically gives you a power bat in the late innings.   Look what Griffey helped out with Seattle this.

2) Dan Uggla.  As the prospect market is vaslty overrated, the Marlins are shopping him.  Lincoln, Tabata, Alvarez should be the only untouchables.  As the Russian said in the movie Rounders, "Pay the man, pay him his money".

3) Hank Blaylock-  Fallen out of favor, he can play a mean 1b as the Rangers had a youth movement this year.  

You are giving up potentially the 32nd pick in the draft for Vlad.  Isn't that like getting Randy Moss for a 5th round pick from the Raiders?

Frankly...if the Pirates mention in the middle of this story doesn't concern people about our manager...then nothing will. At least if the report is accurate...anyway.

www.timesonline.com/.../mehno-theres-a-fine-line-indeed.html

A manager is with his players at least 8 hours a day...just about every day. To go 2 1/2 weeks without directly talking to a player...is ridiculous.

Evidently...JR isn't communicating well with the press...or umpires...or even his own players. Young players need guidance. Not talking to them is not providing guidance...or showing leadership. Delegating everything to the coaching staff is not leadership either.

It's possible that Russell may be a good teacher...but I've seen no indications that his game management skills are any good...or any real signs that he is a leader. So...what skills DOES JR have that allow him to remain as manager??

worst of the '70's:

1971 Reds had the fewest errors and their record was 79-83

1970 Phils 73-88

60's:

all teams this decade leading MLB with fewest errors were over .500

Dmac-- thanks for the PBP.. definitely helps the day go faster and work and hopefully next year will bring more cheer.

JJ and BK- thanks for the gatherings and confidence in my techncial ablity.  The recession is starting to lighten up a bit and I hope to advance myself..

Jal- Thanks for doing the morning links and the grunt work.  That can be very tiresome but I believe we all benefit from it.

DK- Great Job this season, even if you take the Chicago job as rumored.  I know they were trying to bribe you with Snoopy and McDonalds..    Kidding of course, but keep up the great work...

Suggested trip for DK this off-season-- Hawaii for the fall/winter league.

tidbits from the '50's:

1959 CIN was 76-78 with fewest errors.  notice this is back in the days of the 154 game schedule. this means the Bucs run this year with 99 losses and leading the league in defense is the first time in the 162 game era that a team with 99 losses is the defensive champ.  the Bucs have it going away as BAL in 1991 had lost 95 games and led the league.

that Cincy team was from 1958 by the way not '59.  eyes are starting to cross!!!  pressing on.

it is seriously amazing to see how many teams have won 90-110 games when you go back through time when they led the game in fewest errors.

and so ends the look back at the '50's...most teams that decade were in the high 90's for wins.

1941 CLE was 75-79 led the league in fewest errors (142)

still nothing close as we enter the 1920's.  I think we are a history making team possibly.

WSB

You are welcome

On Vlad Guerrero I read severalk articles saying he is shell of the player he once was and they do not think he has much left--bat speed down, can't play in the field.

what if DK had covered the 1900 New York Giants ballclub that had a cool 439 errors (most by a team that season and most in the 1900's I think).  what fun that must have been!

or the 1896 Louisville Colonels club that had 475 errors in 134 games.  they still drew 133,000 fans that year. 1895 they had 477 errors.  

1894 washington senators team had 499 errors in 132 games.

few more minutes and I think we can declare our team the champs.  maybe that's what SNL was trying to predict last night/this morning.

Good Evening, Bucco Fans!

Congrats Amarillo Fats on winning the contest ... though it seems a bit ironic: You incredibly nailed both the exact record and came within one on HR prediction ... and yet after the 17th losing season was a reality, you declared yourself finished with the Pirates!

Congrats anyway on the great guess! And I bet you come back anyway, sorta like you did after you said that, for several days.

Vlad Guerrero was a DH in all but 2 games this year, and did not hit as well.  That doesn't speak very well for his defense, or even hitting ability for that matter.  No thanks for the cost of the 32nd pick.

1892 baltimore orioles 584 errors in 152 games.  393 errors LED the league for fewest that year.

1891 our friends from washington had 589 errors.

1890 Pittsburgh team 607 errors!  Its really tough in the 1890's because the team with the fewest errors only played a few dozen games so that's hardly fair to compare against a team with 138 games.  

so I declare our 2009 Buccos a history making team. 99 is your winner.  leading the game of baseball with the fewest errors in a season yet having the highest number of losses the game has ever seen for a team with the best defense.  

way to go Buccos!

feel free to double check DK.  its a lot of fun.  

1876 is the first year of records for the game so 133 years (134 seasons) of baseball and the Buccos are the first.

Im out for a long while!

night everyone.

I won.  I was right.  And until Bob Nutting either sells the team or dies, I will be right.

The rest of you can cling to whatever straws you can grab.

I am not happy by this.  Only knowing.  And seeing nothing on the horizon except (maybe) a heart attack or stroke.

bucsfan -

I recently saw a chart that someone put together comparing fielding percentage, UZR and deviation from FIP.

For those that don't know those terms, UZR (Ultimate Zone Rating) is the premier defensive metric in use today, taking into consideration a fielder's range and errors both.

FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching) is a pitcher's ERA taking away strikeouts, homeruns, walks, etc. It is a good way to see if a pitcher might have just been unlucky or a victim of poor defense. For example, I mentioned when Hanrahan was acquired that he had a very good FIP, despite having a high ERA. Sure enough, soon after he starting pitching for a team that could catch the ball, his "pitching" improved markedly.

The chart showed that while there was a direct correlation between FIP deviation to UZR (more or less proving that those metrics are indeed valid), there was absolutely NO correlation between fielding percentage and UZR or FIP. Some teams with low errors were good UZR teams, others were poor UZR teams.

The point being that sometimes good fielding percentage means that the fielders are not able to get to a lot of balls and therefore have less chances to make an error on a throw where they might be off balance, for example.

I would guess that the correlation that you are finding of #1 teams in fielding percentage to winning teams is probably due to those teams having players that are very conscientious and have high ability to concentrate. I could see those types of players on teams with winning records and also having low errors.

thanks!!

I just checked Tabata stats.He had

5 HRs

35 RBI

362  ABs

.293  BA

.357 OBP

 What happens if he hits .240?Scholarship or bench?Hmmm.He had 50 less ABs than Moss,but less HRs and RBI.Could be interesting as he is a righty.

Maz,

Tabata isn't starting the season in the majors.  I think once he shows more sustained success in Indy, along with some improvement, he may come up in the summer.  Remember that he's 21.  At that age, Moss was still in A ball.

Nothing like going out in a blaze of mud - 10 hits 4 BB  - 0 runs - pretty much represents the year.

Final Pirate graph is in my avatar - click on it to see the comparison (red and black) between last year and this (we thought last year was bad!)

UGH!

And that, children, is how you win with class.

JAL, Your right about who does what where,

www.youtube.com/watch

but this tune gives hope that guys can move around and karsstens seems to have been one to do it it

LMAO...JLP...Umm..Really, I think I liked the other one better.  I'm not liking that 'stach very much.  

thanks Mark.  good points.  It was interesting to look through history tonight and sure enough (with rare exceptions) the teams with the fewest errors were teams that regularly won 90-110 games.  It was very consistent over the past 130 years with some exceptions.  The biggest exception of all of course was 2009.  

the playoffs should be interesting weatherwise with all the cool and damp weather we are having so far this early Fall.  Early November baseball games unless the games are indoors or on the west coast, could be like early April weather.  I wonder how many rain outs or even snow outs we could have.  Its already snowing in the Mountain time zone so if the Rockies play in November, look out!

JLP,  your very first post I have not a clue?

jal- I agree that Vlad isn't the Montreal version, but I believe people were saying Sheffield was finished too.  I thought that Sheffield was completely finished, but he proved both myself and the rest of world wrong.

4/5 Vlad is better than just about any other RF we have.  I know NH disagrees with this 100%, but add Vlad and Uggla to this team, and all of the sudden, you don't have to DEPEND on Alvarez (who I'm a huge fan of) to turn this around.  

The Cleveland model only works if you have Thome, Belle, Rameriz, Lofton, and Barega..

thus..

Cutch (lofton)

Vlad (Belle)

Rameriz (Alvarez.. at that point in time)..

alomar= doumit

Cutch is better than Lofton..

and that 1997 Indian staff was not good.  The Pirate staff is better, as Nagy is just as good as Duke or Olendorf.

maz -

Of course, Tabata will be 21 next season, so his power will not be developed yet. He did hit 3 HRs in 30 games in AAA, and it seemed his power stroke was developing as the year went on. However, he's not going to give you a whole lot of power next year it's true. His main asset has been hitting for average - he was rated the Yankees' best prospect for average a couple of years ago.

That's why I've been saying that I have a hard time seeing Tabata and Milledge both in the same outfield unless Milledge starts hitting for more power - which he actually has now. Of course, there's not really enough of a sample to see if Milledge will keep that up or not.

If it were up to me, I'd probably keep Tabata in AAA until his SLG rises above .450.

As I pointed out earlier, Moss has never been a good hitter for average in the minors, whereas both Tabata and LaRoche have consistently hit for .300+ AVG.

If the FO can pick up a right fielder like Marlon Byrd who is good both with the glove and the bat, I'd much rather see that than relying on Tabata. It's probable that Tabata won't provide a large enough upgrade over Moss next year to make a big difference in the run production department.

Ok.. Hershiser was good too, but an erratic Colon..

Good god that staff looks horrid...

I know it is early, but I've always felt tht Milledege is between Barry Bonds and AL Martin, which puts him as a Mike Easler type.

WhyStan -

For the 3 years before this one, when Vlad was relegated to DH duty, he was a -15 UZR/150 fielder.

Garrett Jones this year was a -8 UZR/150 in the outfield this year, and Jason Bay has been about a -12 UZR/150 when you average his last 3 years (He was only -8 this year with the green monster providing a smaller area for him).

So right off the bat, Vlad would have to hit very well to overcome his defensive deficiency, which he might be able to do. The question is whether Vlad is more valuable to a team that needs a DH, since you are not starting with that defensive liability.

I think the Pirates could get more value from a player that has a mix of both offensive and defensive skills. You always have to pay a premium for offensive.

For me, Marlon Byrd is the epitome of the player that the Pirates need. I have heard Texas is going to try to re-sign him, so he may not even be available.

Otherwise, Ankiel might be a good pick up. He's someone who might forget how to hit like he forgot how to pitch, but at least he's going to catch the ball and has the potential to hit well.

All free agents are crapshoots. Look at Milton Bradley.

BTW, he's someone that I would absolutely love to have, despite his reputation. He's someone you need a good backup for, since he's going to be injured a third of the year (just like Vlad), but he's a good defensive player as well as a good bat.

The question is how do you get him. If you tell the Cubs you'll pay the contract, you can probably get him for no prospects. Right now, the Pirates do indeed have $10M a year to spend on Milton Bradley the next 2 years.

I say why not?

I just finished reading the final game story, DK.

"now formally christened a laughingstock by the nation's arbiter of such things."

Read more: www.postgazette.com/.../1003088-63.stm

I'm sure that makes for a nice lead, but I personally found that more than a hair over the top. I mean, Saturday Night Live has long been popular with a lot of people, but to be in a position to "formally" christen someone or something a "laughingstock," as "the nation's arbiter of such things" ...

Does a SNL skit really carry that much weight?

Baywatch. LOL... having fun, but... I have been writing about this since this summer. Watch the old Seinfield episodes about the plight of the yankees and them dissing Steinbenner. I would suggest at least 5 skits directly at Steinbrenner for ruining a storied team. Approx 1991-92. Then in Approx 1993, the Yankees had a turn a round that is still in existance today!!!

I want more SNL skits!! (I have not seen yet). But be it known even here in California yes the pirates are a laughing stock of sports.

David