Morning links: The Hacker clapper

If a person claps at a game, but no one else is there ...

Eric-- Welcome to the PBC.  May your experience gained in 2009 benefit you in your 2010 preparation.  

A guy makes his MLB debut and get ridiculed?   Wow. Sounds like Philly.  

Hey DK, does my FireJohnRussell.com make the morning links?  

I stayed up late to get a decent site online with a couple of articles. I like to think the quality is a decent site, since I just bought the domain name during the 9th inning tonight.

For those that have offered to write a few things, let me know and I'll get them posted.  Nothing personal, and facts only.  It's not an attack site, it's a fact site and a sign of absolute unacceptance of the losing. If you have things worthy of going up there, I'll post if for you.

www.youtube.com/watch

Let's see, Russell was hoping for better results from Hacker after letting him sit for 2 weeks.  This guy knows nothing about baseball. He needs to be removed ASAP. The fans deserve at least a competent manager.

The Greats:  Honus Wagner.  Max Carey.  Pie Traynor.  Kiki Cuyler.  Arky Vaughn.  Ralph Kiner.  Roberto Clemente.  Willie Stargell.  Danny Murtaugh.  Paul Waner.  Lloyd Waner.  Bill Mazeroski.  Barney Dreyfuss.  Fred Clarke.  Bill McKechnie.

The Titles:  1909, 1925, 1960, 1971, 1979.

Never Forget.  Keep the Faith.

Pride.  Passion.  Pittsburgh Pirates.

The Hacker Clapper

Pure gold

In this 17 years of losing we have yet another fabled hero

Is there any truth to the rumor that the Hacker's Clappers Clap was followed by a "Yuengling here"

17

100

I don't know what to say after another loss.

Could have sworn that video wasn't in the above story when I first posted my link. But I was just doing a hit-n-run, anyway, so can't say for sure. I'm gone -like major league baseball from Pittsburgh.

mazfromiowa,

Looking for something to say? How 'bout this:

"Read my lips, no new victories!"  

I haven't read comments or posted in a couple months. Dejan's second stage of losing (apathy) is beginning to take hold. However, I'm wondering what the Nutting and/or FO apologists have been saying on this blog, and if they are still defending the direction of the club? It would seem almost impossible for them to do so at this point. Normally, young guys (especially pitchers) who have the talent to be impact players at least show some spark of being really good, even if inconsistent. I got a chuckle out of Huntington's recent comments that the team will have improved by next spring training. I actually like Huntington and Coonelly as professionals. I believe they really care, and they really thought they could build a winner on the cheap. However, they have made the classic mistake of intelligent people...overestimating their own abilities in relation to others. I would humbly offer some advice to the two of them - stop beating yourselves up over the losing, and channel that energy into telling Nutting that he should either spend (I know he needs players worthy of the money...don't need to hear that tired argument again), or sell the team. If he is such a good business man (couldn't keep a straight face while typing that), he can invest in many other industries with a less public face and make money. To selfishly keep the team as his family's "pet" project is an injustice to the taxpayers and to the fans of the PBC. Lest I begin to feel like Eric Hacker, somebody please comment on this post.

dfraj8 -

It would be great if you would please list all the players you would like Nutting to spend money on. When you can find enough to make the Pirates a winning team, then we can talk about how realistic it is.

Just go through Cots free agent list for this offseason and next and we'll see how long it takes to come up with a winning team.

For example, you might start with Jason Bay and Xavier Nady, both of which are free agents this offseason.

"It always looks bad when you're not scoring and the other team's scoring [a bunch]," Russell said.

Brilliant observation, JR.

MarkInDallas -

This is Nutting's team now. This is Huntington's team now. This is Coonelly's team now.

They built it.

Please - they chose this path. Let's not go thru the whole FA argument again.

This team is so low the players - even the young players - won't go to winter ball. Position coaches are even begging to get out, an almost unheard of scenario.

No FA in his right mind would come here. But that is a direct result of the situation (and team) RN, FC and NH have built.

This is bad - very bad, and it can no longer be blamed on McClatchy and Littlefield.

Perhaps they will turn it around. Let's hope so. But they have sunk to new depths. When the beat writers make comments like I have read in the last two nights, it is very bad.

When the TV news doesn't even report the score on the 11 o'clock news, that is very bad.

Two months ago, we had angry people. Now we have apathy, and that is far worse than losing. The Cubs lose. The Browns lose. But losing AND apathy is the kiss of death.

Good morning inmates near and far. Most disturbing thing about this downfall is the Bucs aren't even affecting the race. Even the hapless royals are beating the contenders they play. The Dodgers are still fighting for playoff positioning, it would be nice if the Pirates could show up and affect the race, and the rest of baseball.

                  HEAR YE HEAR YE HEAR YE

             Announcing the anniversary gathering

                    October 24th, noon time

                     Vincents of Greentree

                           Special Guest

                        Mr Frank Coonelly

                    LImited seating available

                      RESERVE YOUR SEAT

                                     to

                        tjfran@comcast.net

                  Questions for MR. Coonellly

               can be submitted by emailling to

                      tjfran@comcast.net

                         No tie required

Did I think when I picked an above .500 number prior to the season that we could do it? I sure did.

Did I think the team we had was a world series team?  I sure did not.

Just about everyone at some point or another has made the point that trades are not fairly evaluated unless they are made between teams trading ready every day major leaguers

at positions or on the mound.

It would have been naive to have the saame thoughts come around August the first that we were looking for an above .5oo season outcome.

Washington beat the Dodgers last night...the race grows tighter....running out of "season."

******  RACE FOR THE 2010 Number 1 DRAFT PICK   ******

(a.k.a. “the Bryce Harper Sweepstakes”)

Stats thru Sept.23:

1.   Washington…….52 wins

2.   PIRATES……..…56 wins

3.   Baltimore ………60 wins

4.   Cleveland ………61 wins

5.   Kansas City…….65 wins

*********************************************

Morning Links Part 2

Play by Play--A loss a day

scores.espn.go.com/.../playbyplay

Preview of Today's Game

www.cbssports.com/.../MLB_20090924_CIN@PIT

Hart struggles again for Pirates

www.tribune-democrat.com/.../local_story_266231304.html

Reasons to watch the noncontenders

sports.espn.go.com/.../story

THE OFFICIALLY UNOFFICIAL PBC BLOGS AND MLB LINKS:  Part 1

Bucs Dugout--2009 in Review: Lynchburg Hillcats

www.bucsdugout.com/.../2009-in-review-lynchburg-hillcats

Pittsburgh Lumber Company--Reds Pour it on and Clobber Buccos

mvn.com/.../reds-pour-it-on-and-clobber-buccos.html

Sandlot Swashbucklers-Redmond Dominates For 8+ Shutout Innings in USA Win

mvn.com/.../redmond-dominates-for-8-shutout-innings-in-usa-win.html

Raise the Jolly Roger-A pathetic exhibition of baseball [Reds 12 Pirates 2]

raisethejollyroger.com/.../a-pathetic-exhibition-of-baseball-reds-12-pirates-2

Hyzdu Headquarters-Speechless

hyzduhq.blogspot.com/.../speechless.html

The Green Weenie--Whoops, There Goes Another Ballgame....

oldbucs.blogspot.com/.../whoops-there-goes-another-ballgame.html

THE OFFICIALLY UNOFFICIAL PBC BLOGS AND MLB LINKS: Part 2

PBC Home Page--Pirates uninspired in fifth-straight loss

pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

PBC Home Page--Security increased with summit nearby

pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

PBC Home Page--Hacker's debut with Bucs fulfills dream

pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

Rumbunter-Night of the Living Dead/Pirates/Alleghenies

rumbunter.com/.../night-of-the-living-deadpiratesalleghenys

MLB transactions--

www.cbssports.com/.../transactions

Bucco Fans--2009 Lynchburg Hillcats Season Recap

www.buccofans.com/.../2009-lynchburg-hillcats-season-recap.html

Bucco Fans--Brooks Pounders a top GCL Prospect

www.buccofans.com/.../brooks-pounders-top-gcl-prospect.html

Bucco Fans--Winter League Tracker

www.buccofans.com/.../2009-pittsburgh-pirates-winter-league.html

North Side Notch--Thursday Notes: Doumit rolling

www.northsidenotch.com/.../thursday-notes-doumit-rolling.html

JAL, the Nats won last night!  Looking a little better for them.

@dfraj8-Some of the worst apologists have disappeared, but plenty still remain.  I'm still baffled that some people vehemently believe this is the ONLY way the Pirates could contend.  Logic isn't always a strong suit with people who care about the Pirates.  I've sat thru every year of this crap hoping, believing.  Even I've gotten apathetic about my Pirates, and I keep a spreadsheet of EVERY PLAYER OF ALL TIME and what they've done.

Of course, it could be I'm going around the bend, just hope it takes longer than it does for the Pirates to turn the corner.

Arrogance and incompetence are not a good combination for a GM.

Frank Coonnelly and Bob Nutting have been silent lately. Maybe they're hanging Neal out to dry. Although no one will be fired anytime soon, Kevin Hart will be the poster child of the Neal era.

Hart came here with a bad attitude and he looks miserable.

I am certain, when the Pittsburgh civic leaders were prepping for the g-20, they never anticipated the Pirates would be in accelerated free fall, in an empty stadium, losing ballgame after ballgame. Yes, that is an image of Pittsburgh I am sure they want sent out to the world.

A question, if all his players disregard him and refuse to play winter ball in an attempt to improve themselves, does Neal H. feel he is losing the players?

A follow up. Why would he expect the passage of time, without any further training or instruction, to suddenly improve the talent of the players the Pirates have? Does he expect the Pirates to lose 110, or 120 games next season?

These are real questions, and I would like to know his real thoughts. It is apparent to me that he DID think he was smarter than other GM's, and I will be very curious to see how he handles the heat of a season with a worse record than this years.

(BTW... I really felt sorry Andrew McCutchen was brought up into this. He really sounded beaten in that audio clip)

@Demery=Couldn't be truer, because Neil has the arrogance of the '27 Yankees.  Too bad his results have been in the area of the 1890 Pirates.  And I think you nailed Hart exactly.  Although really, who could blame him for feeling that way?  He knew he was going to Siberia.

I felt sorry for Andrew too, he said 'since they have to be here'.

As people complain about how bad the trades were, exactly how good would we have been IF we kept everyone else?

I know we can't assume that the players gone would have all had the same medical issues (like Nyjer breaking a finger), but we probably could assume that Jack and Freddy would be having the same types of medical issues, and probably not be playing. (and, after reading the Freddy article, I wonder how many fans are ripping the trades for their teams about the high quality we sent away).

Andrew is about the same as Nate

Jones is doing about the same as Adam as far as HR's

Who would be playing SS for us if Jack had played as many games for us as he is Seattle?

We'd probably still have DY at second because of Freddy.

Milledge is maybe a slight drop from Nyjer this year, but seems like he is doing pretty well right now.

Andy is Andy, and we have rehashed the Bay trade enough.  Same as Moss and whoever in RF.

The pitchers we got aren't doing great, but who would be pitching if we had not got them?  And, would our pitchers be doing any better.  Snell is doing well in Seattle, but we had seen what he was doing here... NOT pitching.

I know it is easy to say the trades were not great from a ML ready standpoint.  But in reality.. does anyone think we'd be doing that much better had NH not made the trades?  

There is laughter at NH's comment about everyone being better next year.  BUT, would any of the guys we traded away have improved anymore next year either?

Doesn't mean we all have to be 'happy' about the trades, but looking at the big picture... we'd probably only have a handful more wins if they had done nothing.  And, still not have any hope except for free agency.

The problem with firing Russell is finding a qualified, willing replacement (victim). It'll be the same situation with the coaches. Any position here is a death sentence to your career....come on down - you are the next contestant on "You Can't Win".

Someone mentioned Bobby Cox the other day - he, or someone like him that has already proven himself and is on the downward side of their career (old) may be the best fit...unless of course if they want to be paid fairly.

Can we tank this team and start over as an expansion team - selecting real players from other teams?

After August the first I for one expected not much from the team as a whole.

I am not privy to what the expectations of the evaluators was.

I asked for management to win strategy shortly after the first,

within days it was clear to me my call went unheard.

It has been clear that the game management style has a different outcome than the game of the day outcome.

Does it make sense that the fans expect the manager to make the right moves to win evry game, it makes sense to this fan.

It also makes sense that you learn less about the character and working needs of the player if you sit a guy or pull a pitcher before you see how they face adversity.

We have a catcher and a short stop as the only players who have true everyday major league playing time for a complete major league season under their belts in the defensive field positions.

Not many teams have eer taken such a bold move all at one time.

Even expansion teams are given the chance to field a more of a major league experience team that we have now.

Remarks contrary to this understanding lack delayed gratification developement.

I like this situation at least as less as any of us, I will not join the burn the bridge down cadre of you.

As my pal maz points out, what is the point of wallow?  How does it take you towards your final goal?

Money, you're right, let's make more trades.

Neal has done such a wonderful job of evaluating talent

Quit trying to justify this disaster.

These guys could use some 'roids or HGH. This team didn't even use them when they could get away with it (except probably Giles). They haven't been trying (or wanted) to win for a long time.

@Demery44

I am not trying to justify it at all.

I am just asking.. would status quo have made us any better of a team in the short or long term?

Maybe we'd have a few more wins, but there would be the same hope for next year that we are complaining about having now.  HOPE those guys we had got better and HOPE we could fill out the team via FA's.

Say what you want about the "pro-FO" people hoping ... but the "anti-FO" people keep hoping for just as insane things.  Like BN selling, FC, NH and JR getting fired, and finding lighting in a bottle in the fall.

Whose dreams and hopes are closer to reality?

@jersey-What bridge is left to burn?

I guess we could trade McCutchen and Milledge and Doumit.  I find it hard to believe we could get much for anyone else.  Well, Ohlendorf and maybe something for Duke and Maholm.

17 years of losing should be more than enough waiting for 'delayed gratification'.

At least to me.  This team has fallen off of a cliff, and you are arguing about the scenery on the way down.

I guess if we are going to wallow in anything, it will be in Delayed Gratification.

At 3 and whatever for the month, there is one heck of a lot of delayed gratification to wallow in.

I fondly remember the good old days (about a month ago?) when the hot topic was: "Why do the Buccos do so poorly on the road and so well at home?" Almost magically, the PBC has found consistency at last by losing with equanimity everywhere.

Maybe they can start playing at a neutral location.

To paraphrase that Great American Hero,  General Bat Guano: "Delayed gratification will help Preserve Our Essence."

Jose

1

Money=MAYBE we'd have a few more wins?

I think the worst stretch since 1890 qualifies as more than MAYBE.

@John Lease

Ok, bad choice of words.  We WOULD have a few more wins, but how many.

Point is ... not much would be changing in the complaint department here.

Apologist:  One who speaks or writes in defense of a faith a cause or an institution.

Worse:  of more inferiorquality, value, or condition.

Oxymoron: a combination of contrictory or incongrous words

( as cruel kindness)

Many who get labeled as somehting inferior by young minds that get a laugh out of name calling have decided they have had enough of the naievte of the name callers.

I being the resident idiot savant, see who the real laugh is on.

Clean up your trollness and allow for true respectable debate and as the ones you speak of do a little lurking they will join back in.

They have not lost the team, they have lost the desire to get nowhere but  thrown down the gutter.

cut out the:

www.youtube.com/watch

and infuse:

www.youtube.com/watch

into your diologue

This may be the clearest expalnation of what goes on at our gatherings and those folks you think have left the team are coming.

@ Demery: Neal is Delaying his Gratification by going with this group. Since there are only three major-leaguers left on the roster (Maholm, Doumit & Duke - although Ohlendorf gets a thought here) to trade, the possibility of trading anyone else on the 40-man for anything resembling talent is somewhat mind-boggling.

How about a package deal where we trade Moss, Hart, Lil Stonehenge, Young, Cruz and Dumatrait for Pujols and Holliday?

Seriously, I am really excited about the possibility of these guys taking the Winter off and, after ruminating on how adversity and ineptitude, rather than scarring them psychologically for life will actaully cause them to come into Spring Training reluvenated, well-rested and ready for another season of Delayed Gratification.

So say we all.

Jose

2

@money-you're probably right.

But it doesn't make anyone feel any better.  I want some blood for this fiasco.  I swear to God if I heard there was a mob with torches and pitchforks outside of PNC I'd be on the next plane up with mine too.  Neil's smug face needs to SHUT UP.

Warning!! Non-baseball comment!!

Does anyone else here get the delicious irony in the P-G running a banner ad for Harrah's Casino in New Orleans when we have a bright, shiny casino (One-Armed Bandits R Us) right here in the 'Burgh?

Jose

3

Poll question:

"What should the PBC's New Motto be?"

1) "Come see our Prospects!"

2) "The PBC: Delayed Gratification in Action."

Let the voting begin!

Jose

3

This is a bad team, no question about that.  However, I think they are playing less than the sum of their parts.  The last month has been beyond bad.  This is essentially the same group that went 6-8 from July 17 to July 31--and that included wins over the Brewers and Giants.  They also went 5-0 Aug. 17-22.  Not good but not as dreadful as they have been since.

The current slide is worse than the quality of the players on the field.  I do not know if there is one problem or several.  Is part of the problem a manager who lacks the ability to get a team emotionally ready to play?  Is it a lack of leadership in the clubhouse?  Is the problem a group of young players who are pressing too hard?  

This team should not be challenging for the playoffs but they should not have gone 5-24--something like 10-19 or 11-18 would be more expected.

Money, the thing you are underestimating is the psychological effect the trades have had on the players.  Yes, you are right, on a one-to-one comparison, we're not getting a lot worse than what we would have received by keeping around a lot of those guys.  But what we're witnessing now is a complete collapse of the TEAM.  Guys are miserable, and it's affecting their performance ... especially in key situations.  They are willing themselves to lose.  While the team was bad before the trades, it was not THIS bad.

This is a scary thought, considering the emphasis ole Neal placed on creating a "culture of winning".  We are the 180 degree opposite of that sentiment right now.  Y'all may get made at Nutting Hostage, but his "Wrong Way Huntington" moniker is spot on.

I've defended the front office in the past.  But it's clear that the major-league level talent evaluation leaves a lot to be desired with a few exceptions (Jones, Ohlendorf, maybe Milledge).  It's hard to trust their ability to build a young team with the way they've failed miserably so far.

Jose, I don't know about the new motto, but our new theme song should be Green Day's "Wake me up when September ends"

John, you either missed the message or are intentionally twisting it, I do not care much which one it is.

The bridge burning is going on between some fans and the team not the FO and the players.

JAL, that's a good way to put it -- they are playing less than the sum of their parts.  Is that not the sole responsibility of the manager?  Certainly a manager can't make a 90 loss team a 100 win team, but he is responsible for them to play to the level of the talent.

As people have posted this morning, the apples-to-apples comparison of players today vs. before the trades is not a huge dropoff ... and actually an improvement in some positions.  But they are finding ways to lose.

JR has lost this team.

NH has acquired players that allow themselves to get lost.

@ JAL: So you are positing that this team is a better bad team than they have been recently?  : )

Jose

5

Jose, from yesterday and a lot of other days, i notice you have dropped your motto: insult the post not the post and you have made the Fo your poster boys of name calling.

My grandma use to have one vice, she would on occasion say oh sh:t, then my Grandpap who did not even have that vice would say, Annie does it make you fel better to say that?

Jose, does it make you fell better to call people stupid repetitively?

I don't think JR is Walter Alston.

But this blame goes to Neal. This is the worst batch of players I can ever remember. Not one player has seized an opportunity. They have a chance of a lifetime and they blew it.

@ JJ: Quote exactly for me from any post of mine where I have called anyone "stupid."

Disagreeing with an approach or methodology does not automatically imply that I think that approach to be "stupid."

Wrong would be a better word.

Jose

6

@ Demery: I agree. It is like handing someone an egg and telling them to make a lobster dinner out of it.

Jose

7

Fat Jimmy:  as of now I would have to agree with your assertion about the loss of the team by JR.

Once everyone goes home and thinks and moves on past the very poor play at this seasons end they will stand up or sit down.

If they stand up and JR is here when they come back JR will have the chance to regain the team.

I am not supporting his return before I am jumped on.  If he comes back and repeats his same management decision he lose them again and forever.

My metaphore is from the food industry: you can lose a cutomer and if he comes back and you win him back, he is yours and if you do not you have lost him forever.

Jose

try this

Current roster=bad team while the current play =dreadful team.  They should be playing badly but they have been playing dreadfully :)

I agree with JAL.  These guys are bad ... there is no question about that ... but are they really 3-24 bad?  I'm not deflecting criticism from Neal ... this is his rotten egg.  But JR making a bad situation worse.

Jose, you have shown you now like my use of the archives you use to ridicule me over by using it yourself on me.

You are bright enough guy and you remember calling either Neal or Frank stupid.

Joe, do you really want to give JR a chance to ruin the 2010 season in April?  If your analogy is true, the ramifications of losing these guys forever is catastrophic to the Bucs!  If JR loses them in April next year, you may change managers, but they will have permantly become worthless ball players.

Seriously.  I worry about Clutch's career development being stunted by this horsecrap.  I worry that whatever the Legend may be won't come to fruition because he contanstly has no lineup protection.  I worry that Ryan Doumit has quit caring about his once-promising career.

@ JAL: So rather than saying they are dreadfully bad team, they are just a bad team playing dreadfully, right?

It is all becoming clearer for me now.

At first I thought they were a bad team playing better than they were and their recent play was their actual level of incompetence. So we need to motivate them to paly to their actual level of incompetence then.

Is Dale Carnegie still dead?

Jose

8

Fat Jimmy

A lot does fall on the manager.  A manager can't turn a 10 HR player into a 40 HR player but some managers always win.  Billy martin wore out his welcome quickly but teams always player better the first couple of seasons under him.  Tony LaRussa also seems to get the most out of his players.  He has taken some Cardinal team teams to pennants when the quality of his individual players should have made them also-runs.

JAL:

I agree with your idea this is a better team than the record shows. I think a big factor might be just kids getting tired and not having the experience to crank it up. All the minor league seasons are done, these guys are now in the 14th or 15th inning or their seasons and there is just not a lot left in the tank. If it was just a couple of guys things would be going better but take a look at how many are truly in their first real full season.  

$$$$$  BODY WATCH – ATTENDANCE AT MLB PARKS $$$$$

Stats thru 9/23/09 …

NL Central update:  St.Louis has exceeded 3 million in attendance;  Chicago, Milwaukee, Houston have all exceeded 2 million in attendance.  

30. Oakland……77 dates ** 1,349,975 tot  **  17,532 avg.

29. Florida…….75 dates ** 1,358,245 tot  **  18,109 avg.

28. PIRATES …..76 dates ** 1,463,377 tot  **   19,254 avg.

29. Cincinnati……75 dates ** 1,650,336 tot **    22,004 avg

30. Cleveland…..73 dates ** 1,607,615 tot  **   22,022 avg.

*****

2.   NY Yanks …….75 dates **3,437,426 tot   **  45,832 avg.

1.   LA Dodgers…...78 dates**3,601,611 tot  **   46,174 avg.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

@jersey=I don't get it, not trying to misinterpret

@jal=You are correct, they are playing worse than they should be.

I think it's the realization that the FO doesn't have their backs at all, and that's why they won't go to winterball, or the coaches are trying to bail.

@Demery=I don't think this group is worse than the 1985 Pirates.  They are right up there though.  The difference is that Joe L. Brown took that team apart and rebuilt it with guys who were the core of the 88-92 group.  

Neil's trades have been, on average so far, below average.  The Pirates can't afford to miss that badly.  The one thing they CAN compete on is talent evaluators and development.  No one will hit on all of them, but you can't give away guys(Torres) because they hurt your predecessors feelings.

Jose

That is the point I am making--at least that is what I see.  Back on August 1 when they were 13 under .500 is about where they should have been.  

Not sure about Dale Carnegie but Francisco Franco is still dead :)

It would be great if you would please list all the players you would like Nutting to spend money on

-----------------------------------------

This argument is totally unacceptable and this attitude is what NH and co have and why they are the laughing stock of MLB and all of pro sports.

This and Nutting being a cheap, money grubbing, piece of garbage........

Money -

I see you trying to justify the trades (still) because of injuries to the salary dumps.  The results of the trades speak for themselves.  We are going to exceed 100 losses and each loss seems worse than the last.  I

I sure am glad I haven't wasted my 3 hrs a night watching this team any longer.(although I do waste my time reading about it in the PG)

Many of the Nutting gang which posted here seem to be long gone???

RAISE THE JOLLY ROGER BOB NUTTING! you peice of garbage.

@ JJ: If you are concerned about someone asking you to cite the source to support your representation of what they wrote, then you should not find that to be ridicule at all. At that point it would be supporting documentation.

I don't need to look in the archives as I know I have refrained from using words like "Stupid" to describe my opinion of the tack this front office is taking.

I don't care much for the implication that I have said that, but I leave it to others to provide the proof that I have done so.

Jose

9

I've seen some ridiculous optimism amongst some Pirates fans, who seriously believe this team can go to the playoffs in 2-3 years. Even if the Pirates were a competently run organization (they're not), baseball usually only yields about 2 new playoff teams per year. The Pirates would not just have to become competent, they'd have to actually become good - and not just for a month, but a whole year. And then they'd have to fight off a bunch of better-run organizations that are trying to make the playoffs too. I'd give the Pirates maybe a 0.1% chance of making the playoffs through 2012 - and that might be generous.

Today is THRIFTY THURSDAY…we review the trade of Andy’s bro….

77777777  Adam LaRoche Trade  77777777777

Trade completed on July 22, 2009, Adam LaRoche to RedSox for …2 prospects.  Red Sox traded  Adam to the Braves a week later (…would woulda thunk it?). Here’s how the players are performing for their new teams since the trade was completed.

Stats thru September 23:

Adam LaRoche – 1B - Boston & Atlanta – Bats:  L

1 HR  3 RBI   .263  (RedSox) ** 6 G, 19 AB,   2R, 5 H, 2K, 0 BB, 0 SB  **  .263 OBP  .526 SLG

12 HR  36 RBI  .355 (Braves)**  47 G  172 AB  2R 61H  46K 23BB 0 SB **  .426 OBP  .622 SLG

Argenis Diaz – SS – Indy – Bats: R  (minor league season over)

0 HR,  8  RBI  .233 ** 43 G, 146 AB, 14 R, 34 H, 27K, 8BB, 1 SB **  .273 OBP  .240 SLG

Hunter Strickland – RHP -  West Virginia   (minor league season over)

4-2,  3.77 ERA  **  8 G  43 IP  42 H  3 HR   23 K  6 BB  **    1.12 WHIP   .250 OP.AVG

777777777777777777777777777777777777777

Tomorrow (FRANTIC FRIDAY) -  the Grabow/Gorzo trade update is made.

Seems to me that Neal is building his team on paper only - not considering that these guys are actually human beings that need to be nurtured, managed and kicked in the ass once in a while. I know my kids need to understand expections, limits and consequences. It doesn't seem like anyone (especially Russell) is leading these guys or growing them into a team. I too am fearful of the damage that may be done to Cutch and a couple others.

ants marching===========================================

So how do we fix this mess....

Cutch, Doumit, Milledge, Jones, and Cedeno for position players and Duke, Ohlie, and Maholm as starters have earned their jobs for next year. DY until lately was hitting pretty well so he probably gets a chance unless something better comes along at 2nd. I do not think it is unreasonable to expect this group to improve or at least maintain their 2009 performance.

Now what about the rest.   Andy probably gets to keep third warm for Pedro.  Moss, Walker, Pearce: out of options will either be on the roster or gone, if anyone else wants them.  Pedro, Tabata: Will they be ready to join the club and contribute? Any free agents strike your fancy. Is it worth trading some pitching (Duke or Maholm?) for a bat? Any thoughts?

fat jimmy, the short of it is NO.

Good morning mates, good tidings if any are around.

ESPN is noting this is a "historic freefall" by our club.  And we thought "hapless" was bad...

I don't know what to say regarding we should be playing better, bottom line is we are not.  In my opinion, JR has to be held accountable for this nightmare on the field.  IMO the players are lost for whatever reason.  JR sits there like a slug (its NOT his only defense), does not instill fire (and I know he's a "quiet type"), and is not leading this club in the right direction.

Seriously, someone has to take a hit for this mess, it can't be NH, they have to give him more time, won't be FC, but I can't imagine this organization staying pat for 2010.  I've seen a few games where IMO again, JR has been totally overmatched managing the game, his yo-yo approach line-up probably confuses the players as much as us.

I honestly don't think there is any hidden or surprise agenda with his moves, I just think he's not a very good manager, especially with this team.

I hope NH knows what he is doing, I'd hate to have to go through a new GM and rebuilding again so soon.

@MarkInDallas - A tribute to this group is that you were the only one to actually challenge my argument. Just asking me to name the FA's that I would sign (who wouldn't come here anyway) is missing the other 90% of running an organization. As Crazy Packers Fan wrote, we not only need to become competent at evaluating talent and other aspects of running the team, but we would need to overcome other teams' head starts, and would have to do so while being under-resourced in comparison to them. All the while, smart people in other organizations would "have a plan" and would be developing their own talent. It will take a massive effort to turn this around. The massive effort requires money among other things. The only end games here are 1) continued civic embarrassment while the Nuttings get to play owner, possibly subjecting us to multiple generations of Nuttings  2) MLB contracts this joke of a franchise 3) The Nuttings sell the team

My thoughts on the Russell debate can be summed up in two words - Who cares? Whether we are a bad team playing dreadfully or a dreadful team that was overachieving slightly does not have the least bit of significance. We are a joke, and not even the Almighty Perry Hill and Joe Kerrigan can change that fact.

Russell has the deer in the headlights look.

I don't understand why it took an 0-27 stretch for him to sit Delwyn Young.  And he was right back in the two hole yesterday too, but then is benched for Cruz, who has rust all over him.  Robinzon Diaz is brought back, and sits, not even pinch hitting, until the team gets the flu from LaRoche.  Thanks Andy, btw.  

Collecting fringe guys is great, but there has to be a part II to the plan, or else it's the same plan Littlefield and Cam Bonifay had.

BFD,

This is from Tom Verducci of SI.com:

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The Pirates embraced the proper philosophy when they fully committed to younger players without worrying about their fans getting all weepy about losing complementary-type veterans who are not core-quality players of a championship-type team.

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Apparently not everyone agrees with your assessment of how the front office is handling the PBC.

The team is clearly lacking direction. There are very solid ML players on it who are able to perform at this level. McCutchen, Jones, Milledge, Cedeno, Ohlendorf, Duke, Maholm, Doumit have or are showing that they belong on the field.

Unfortunately, what was inherited didn't leave much in the minors to fill the other spots. The young players that the FO has brought in as potential pieces (Andy, DY, Pierce, Morton, Hart, etc) aren't getting the job done in the short term.

Will this experience pay off for them and the natural maturation process help them reach their true potential? I sure hope so. But the reality is that there is just as likely of a chance that they have peaked. Only time will tell.

If not, at the very least, we have potential replacements waiting for their shot in D. McCutchen, Tabata, Clement, Walker, etc that are their to push them out the door and try to seize their opportunity to do what Jones, McCutchen, Ohlie, etc. showed that they were capable of doing it.

My god look at the stadium , it looks like nobody is there ..THIS IS REAL BAD, BAD LIKE MICHAEL JACKSON ..

Where is ownership , they are quiet as a church mouse, something is brewing and someone will fall on the sword, either NH OR JR, This is past embarassing, someone has to take the blame, for the sake of the fans act like you care NUTTING ......DAMMMMMM I CANT TAKE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!