Hacker headed to Pittsburgh

Firsties!

I wonder if Eric Hacker is related to Sergeant Hacker from Gomer Pyle?

Good afternoon inmates near and far. Dreary  day at the ballyard. The weatherman really blew it today. I guess 14,000 and games like this will be the norm for the month.  Any thoughts as to why McCutchen throws so many golpher balls in a few innings?  Why not bring Hacker up, find out if there is any burried treasure there. Cubs fans including the ones behind us today are obnoxious. Glad to see them out of it for another year. I think the Bucs will post a winning year before the Cubbies make the series.

Its a free country, so these Cubs followers can do as they wish, but they amuse me. Talk about a track record. The Cubs have spent a boatload and won nothing. The Bucs 17 year streak has been dismal to say the least, but at least we have won in the modern era. But hey - the have 15 more wins than the Bucs this year.

I wonder if Eric Hacker is related to Sergeant Hacker from Gomer Pyle?

 Golllee Demery you mean Sgt Carter?

Hacker won't be available until Friday or Saturday in any case...as he threw 100 pitches this afternoon in Indy's 4-2 win.

I guess the childish ones getting a laugh have not yet found this thread.

Radio, I am thinking the ball just gets away form him a bit and he will learn in the big leagues not to lose his concentration to his spot..

Bixler...?  Really...?  Again...?  My gosh, does this guy have incriminating evidence against someone at the PBC?  How long of a look does this guy get?

Wow!Pribanic (2.15) goes 6 and allows 1 hit.He is 4-2 for West Virginia.He'll likely start at AA next spring.He was the 3rd pick for Seattle in 2008.In addition we got Alderson 9-2 who is at Altoona and Strickland 9-6 (3.49)(West Virginia)  (turns 21 in 2 weeks).Leach 7-4 (2.96) and Erickson also from West Virginia 8-4(1.75)Owens11-2(2.10)

These guys are from 20 -23 years.

You think Bix is bad?

I was just looking at Young's stats.

Since June 1st- 10 2B...2 3B...4 HR..Also in In 244 ABs he has 14 BBs.He has not had more than 5 BBs in a month.So he has 16 extra base hits in 3 1/4 months(244 ABs not quite half a season)+ 14 BBs.He is hitting less than 0.90 in his last 44 ABs.I hate to say it but Bix wasn't much worse AND has a better glove.We need to share the position because Young is tired or the league is figuring him out.Or yeah in those 244 ABs he has 60 strikeouts as well.A ratio of 14 BB/60 K is not good!

I think they were having problems with gripping the ball in the weather too.  Several times they had to get a new rosin bag out there, or whatever they use to keep their hands dry on the mound.  

More sage philosophy from JR after yet another sleepwalking defeat...

"I think everything we've done to this point shows we're going in the right direction. "

Oh really, JR?  Last year the team went 67-95, for a .414 WP.  This year's team is 54-82, for a blistering, sub-.400 WPct of .397.

Right direction, JR?  Really?

"The Group" is 10-24 since NH made his declaration....for a stellar and phenomenal sub-.300 WP of .294.

Right direction, JR?  Srsly?

What exactly is the goal here?  I mean the 1962 Mets' 40-120 mark with a WP of .250 is awfully tough to beat, and I know no team has ever actually GONE 0-162 before, but from the quotes I keep seeing from the FO and the results in the standings, I have no choice but to believe that is the ultimate goal.

If this is indeed the case, then I apologize.  BN, FC, NH, and JR, you are absolutely correct.  You ARE moving in the right direction.  How silly of me not to see it before.

Some thoughts from the peanut gallery:

- This loss was a bit anticlimatic.  We knew this was coming.  IMO, it doesnt change a thing.  Those who were positive about the plan shouldnt be surprised by what was inevitable this year at the MLB level.  Those who were negative certainly didnt have their minds changed today.

The season didnt end today and i'll be just as excited with the start of the next PbP by DMac, BK or JAL.

- In some ways, knowing this was coming, i'm a bit relieved that it's over.  Now on to the next game.

- I have described myself as cautiously - but not blindly - optimistic.  Dont confuse a "show-me" realism with lack of blind support.  I may not blindly accept that everything is hunkydory, but i blindly root for my team.

- That doesn't mean i DONT support the plan.  In fact i fully support the strategy.  It's the execution that has to be proved.  I hope it works...i trust that it will.  But as Ronald Reagan used to say, Trust but verify.  I don't believe that makes me any less of a fan from anyone who has been sold on the plan for the past two years.  Because i'll still root my tail off with every...last...stinkin'...game.

So...Let's Go Bucs...see you at the next game, just as upbeat as at the last one.

PS...hope you're all having a great holiday weekend.  I'll be a bit occupied for the rest of the evening but look forward to talking baseball and occasional nonsence with you all tomorrow.

Go Bucs!

Just a note from the recent past when we WEREN'T going in "the right direction"....

After game 136 in 2005, Lloyd McClendon was fired because his 55-81 record was unsatisfactory.

JR is 54-82 after the same amount of games.  But he's going in the "right directoin".  Maybe if Lloyd hadn't won so many, he'd still be here.  Shame on you, LMac!

Amarillo,

Would you please stop with the asinine posts. You are ruining my experience of reading the comments section...

I'll stop when Bob Nutting and John Russell stop with their asinine comments.  Somehow I don't think that's going to happen.

Yes, 2 hits today. Well, we still have another month of "fall training". We're now playing in the role of a college team that gets to play against a MLB team in ST. Judging from how those games typically come out, I'd say if we're lucky we might win 4 of 5 more. Still I'll keep following the Bucs - the rare win yesterday was fun.  Who knows when the next one may be?

mazfromiowa wrote re: Hacker headed to Pittsburgh

on Mon, Sep 7 2009 11:36 PM

Wow!Pribanic (2.15) goes 6 and allows 1 hit.He is 4-2 for West Virginia.He'll likely start at AA next spring.He was the 3rd pick for Seattle in 2008.In addition we got Alderson 9-2 who is at Altoona and Strickland 9-6 (3.49)(West Virginia)  (turns 21 in 2 weeks).Leach 7-4 (2.96) and Erickson also from West Virginia 8-4(1.75)Owens11-2(2.10)

These guys are from 20 -23 years.

______________________________________________

Amarillo,

Remind me how many pitching prospects we had 18 months ago?

@The Deacon wrote re: Pirates clinch 17th losing season

on Sep 7, 2009 5:15 PM

Huntington looks great compared to Littlefield just for even attempting to build the minor league system.  But he's really just done a mediocre job as GM compared to the rest of the league.  

___________

I will concede the point that he has been mediocre with one caveat. That is we had nothing to offer except mediocre talent in any of the trades.  Bay was the best of the bunch but is no star that you cannot do without. Bringing in more than one player was a hope based on some stats that said we should get more than we gave.  For me that is still to be determined (not looking good at this point).

Some of the other trades are bearing fruit though. Some may be here long term (whatever that may be) and some will be traded as well for hopefully more talent where we are short of it.

The real test will be when we have to trade a good to great player and see what we get back.

Way to early for me to determine what we have in the FO but so far I have to give them a passing grade (not a high grade but passing) only because it is early in their tenure and a whole lot of things needed fixed from the minors to overseas.

Again the real test will be when we have to trade a good to great player and see what we get back.

And that's translated into wins at the Major League Level how?

I don't care about minor leaguers.  Seriously.  For every 10 minor league "prospects" only 2 will become major leaguers, and if you're lucky only one of those will become a difference-maker.

And he'll ask for too much money and be traded.

Ask me again when those guys get to the big leagues in 2012 or so.

Also, Amarillo,

"Right direction, JR?  Really?"

I'm not sure you understand this, but "direction" is not a place, it indicates a general movement towards the goal. JR did not say, "We are now where we want to be". See, this would be a destination. But he used "direction", which indicates we are not yet where we want to be. Make a list of prospects we have now vs. prospects we had 18 months ago (make sure you include our future all-star Alvarez and top of the rotation guy Alderson). When you finish this list, hopefully you will understand the "right" part of "right direction". Savvy?

Again,

"I don't care about minor leaguers"

Really, you should. It's how teams like the Pirates compete... If you haven't figured this out yet, then you are pretty far behind...

Show me wins.  Then I'll gladly tell you you're right because we'll both be celebrating.

I don't see that every happening as long as this ownership group and FO have the reins.

Sorry, but until the number in the W column is higher than the number in the L column, nothing will change my mind.

It's convenient that "the right direction" is also the cheapest direction, isn't it?

Sorry, but until the number in the W column is higher than the number in the L column, nothing will change my mind.

Fine, but quit with the asinine posts in the meantime...

Hey Maz I for one would like to see Bixler get more of a shot.  He has been used as a yo yo more than Moss and Pearce prior to his last call up.  Pearce is not playing badly and can grow with his time here even if he ends up a bench player next year.  Moss?  Not sure what they will do (I would keep him as a bench guy as well).  Young has lost it.  Still needs lots of work at second base.  Improved yes, adequate no!  Today watching him take two to three hops before getting his arm back to make an easy toss to first and not having the range said a lot today.  Nothing wrong with giving Bixler some time in the field or as a pinch hitter and see if he can get it together before next year.  Playing time is the only way to determine it.  I know I am in the minority on that but so what…

And before you go telling me about how much we spent in the draft......

How many draft picks would it cost to pony up for CC Sabathia?  Or Roy Halliday?  Or Mark Texiera...or even Albert Pujols...you know...Major League Stars?

Why is it that we all just roll our eyes every time somebody suggests the Pirates could go after a guy like Pujols or Sabathia in the FA market?

I agree it's patently ridiculous.....but why is that?

Cullen, my friend and pal, I have just as much right to post here as you do.

And my definition of asinine is believing this FO when they sell you a line of steaming turds...but that's just me.  Well me and about 45 million other people that follow baseball, most of which are laughing hysterically at OUR Pirates right now.

@Amarillo_Fats wrote re: Hacker headed to Pittsburgh

on Sep 7, 2009 8:01 PM

Show me wins.  Then I'll gladly tell you you're right because we'll both be celebrating.

__________

If you ran a business you would have to have a plan and see progress along the way to reaching your goal. No matter where the progress is being seen.  Then as you build and get the right pieces along the way your end result will be in the win column.  Don't have to agree with the process but you have to have one and see it through.

Amarillo,

Ok, 2012 it is, next year we still stink, that will be 18, 2011 things start to rise, 2012 we'll see what happens

We can be angry, we can be sad, we can be, sorry to steal a posters avatar, irate, no offense, but blah, blah, blah

I am not a fan of the FO, but they are in charge, my thoughts are, it is what it is, Hacker does not impress me, neither does Morton or Hart, those three may be toast come 40 man roster time, but hopefully, there were some pickups at the lower levels, stats don't mean a lot to me in the minors, Morton and Hart are failing their ML test.

JJ hope you had a good weekend

"Why is it that we all just roll our eyes every time somebody suggests the Pirates could go after a guy like Pujols or Sabathia in the FA market?"

Because we didn't have enough prospects to get them prior to about right now. But even now, why trade solid young players/solid prospects for one player? Then you would a star surrounded by the same crappy group we have now... might give us a few more wins, but hard the "destination" we are going for. Also, Pujols and Sabathia are not and will not be on the market.

Amarillo,

Apologies. I answered the wrong question.

"Why is it that we all just roll our eyes every time somebody suggests the Pirates could go after a guy like Pujols or Sabathia in the FA market?

Because no matter how much money you think the Pirates have to spend, you are dreaming if you think they were going to beat the 8 year, $181 million contract that Sabathia got. And Pujols is not and will not be a FA...

Amarillo

Post what you want but i will ask one thing--when you leave a thread  leave the posts behind--don't copy and repost here.

Your first post on this thread makes no sense because it refers to the info on the last thread.

Sometimes a post goes up after the march and may good to bring it over to the new thread but that is rare.

For all you Andy LaRoche fans here it is in black and white

   WORST CAREER BATTING AVERAGE

From 1993-present, minimum 500 plate appearances

1-Midre Cummings, .217

2-Andy LaRoche, .221

3-Keith Osik, .231

4-Humberto Cota, .233

5-Kevin Polcovich, .234

WORST CAREER OPS From 1993-present, minimum 500 plate appearances

1-Midre Cummings, .602

2-Abraham Nunez, 622

3-Mike Benjamin, .624

4-Andy LaRoche, .630

5-Kevin Polcovich, .633

Amarillo, if you think the answer is for the Pirates to sign CC Sabathia and Mark Teixeira, then you will always be very disappointed.

There is no way in any reality that is likely for the Pirates to be able to spend $40M/year on 2 players.

It's not going to make sense ever. Ever. Ever. Ever.

If that is the reality you want to live in, then you'll have to find another team. Sorry.

I came to check on a discussion,but repetition is all there is again.Any chance we could branch out or not repeat the same thing?When there is a loss(and there have been many)we get that some are angry and yet no ideas (other than FAs wanting 10mil+/year)that will happen under the current ownership.These owners are talking about handing down to the next generation,so time to come up with another direction.Now,how about a fresh discussion?BTW I think JAL posted a list of FAs and the list is thin.

@MarkinDallas

Or another owner to buy the team that actually cares about winning and not just lining his pockets.  Even you have to agree that a Major League payroll of $29 million (last in all of MLB, I might add) is a farce and is absurd.

@JAL

Funny.  Somehow I think if I agreed with you, you wouldn't care how many times I posted the same thing.

On that note, I realize that you guys are just as stubborn and unwilling to bend as I am, so I'm ending my Charles Atlas routine of pushing against a brick wall again for one more night.

Enjoy yourselves.  Try to dream of 1979.  Or 1960 or 71 for that matter if you're old enough....unfortunately 1979 is all I have.

Amarillo

Yes I would--I did not disagree with that post, just saw no reason to repost it.  These threads get long enough without pulling in posts from past threads.  That's all, and would ask that any poster.  That is all is was , a simple request that you can accept or reject.  

Great info giveneiltime.  

What amazes me is Osik's slugging % somehow gets him out of the bottom OPS list.  I think Mike Benjamin should be given bonus sideburn points.

Hmm

so Karstens and Veal were expected back.  Bixler, no idea why.  But the big Question is what do they see in Hacker?

As JHadar posted earlier, expecting the team to be sold to different owners is futile--WE can't make it happen.  Accepting that reality doesn't make one a "Nutting apologist." As Joe Friday always said, "Just the facts, Mam." And the fact is, Bob's the owner, and will continue to be the owner until HE decides to sell, whether I like it or not!

I am fortunate enough to have experienced 1960, 1971, and 1979.  My sons have not been as lucky, but, together, we've enjoyed many GAMES.  And that's what baseball is--a marvelous GAME. I hope others can also experience some of the joy I've had (and I hope to have "more wins" in the future).  But I'll enjoy the game, win or loose.

Great, more minor league gristle.

Can't have too much gristle.

Justcantwin,

 Mike Bejamin....now that is someone I forgot about. Grerat burns, good call. How revealing are Andy's stats? As bad as this team has been for 17 years and he is probably the worst or second worst of all of the scrubs who have passed through and this regime refuses to give Walker a chance? I am still waiting for some of Andy's army to respond.

Bob Nutting began running the team full time in 2007, hired Coonelly and Huntington.

The organization has progressed quite a bit talent wise from where it was at. Nutting does not acquire talent, he goes by what the people that work for him say.

He like most owners is not the principal talent evaluator in this organization.

How much money he allocates or will allocate is simply a guess by most people, reality is they or me have no idea what he tells his people he will spend.

The Payroll is a figure that is used, but we do not know if it is set where it isbecause Nutting says they can only have so much money or are there facts such as what each player's real value is that determines how much they will spend on payroll.

Everyone guesses, by few really know.

Yesterday Neal Huntington was asked if the Pirates were making a run at a playoff spot and they had a chance to acquire a player like CC could they do it, he said yes, referring to the situation with the Brewer's last year.

So until I know more exact info about Bob Nutting, I will not defend nor condemn him. To me this has been his club only since 2007.

giveneiltime

No reason for them to repond, in fact, I have no idea where that came from as I see no Andy posts here so now tell me again how stupid I am  (Actually I am pretty intelligent)

John

That is this time of the year with expanded roster.  

giveneiltime

Oh--and yoiu still wrong on my dazzling statement--i made it so I define it--I used the definition "impressive" so not dazzling means not impressive.  

JAl,

  Are you getting paid by the number of times you post? I didn't realize that every post had to be reviewed by and commented on by you. My sincerest apologies for even trying to post on your board. You can have it back now I start a night patrol in 15 minutes.

Went away for awhile, just got back and caught up -- and can't hang around long . . .

AF (from the previous thread, sorry JAL) -- I know that you disagree with my POV on a few things and possibly we agree on others -- but please, I do not have a "clique".  That's a high school word that implies a group of people who imagine that they are better than others and keep others out on some artificial basis, some us against them philosophy.  

Whatever I write is my point of view, not the product of some collective consultation.  I do think I have some friends here, but nothing at all like a clique.  Not everyone that I get along with here has the same opinion I do, it's not a requirement for friendship.  

I wonder if Veal might get a start (maybe in a game where no playoff implications are present) since I believe that has been discussed as the plan for him this winter and in the future.  

giveneiltime

Of course I do not get paid and I do nor review every post.  I was trying to engage you a discussion but since you have no interest I will quit trying.  Have a good night patrol.

Reading

I wonder if Veal might get a start (maybe in a game where no playoff implications are present) since I believe that has been discussed as the plan for him this winter and in the future.  

__________________________

I would be surprised if he gets a start, they only pitched him in relief, usually they try to stretch out their arms before they try starting them.

JH

Sometimes a response from  a previous thread is OK, just think the wholesale copying and reposting can make a thread difficult.  

Slightly off the specific topic of this thread, but hopefully relevant given today's "historic" events:

Interesting (somewhat) note- Pirates were in the National League East for 25 years.  Only 8 of those years were the Pirates under .500.

Pirates have been in the bastardized National League Central for 16 years.  All 16 years, the Pirates have been under .500.

Coincidence?

Reading

Pirates have been in the bastardized National League Central for 16 years.  All 16 years, the Pirates have been under .500.

_________________________

IMO the Pirates have not built a team to compete with the top 3 teams in the NL Central.

I think they are doing that now, especially with bringing in right handed power pitchers. That is a good start, but a long way to go.

Amarillo,

There are no owners in any sport that purposely lose tens of millions of dollars every year. The Pirates might be able to raise payroll a bit, but not to where a free agent like those top tier free agents would be enticed to come to Pittsburgh.

That might change in the future once a winning tradition is built, but that's many years away.

The Pirates cannot "spend" their way out of the hole they've dug. They have to build from within and out maneuver the competition.

Personally, I'm glad this day has come and gone. Forasmuch as I like the job DK does, I hate the way he's used the word "clinch" in relation to the 17 consecutive years of losing ... When I think of someone "clinching" something, I think of it as being more of an active thing, like someone purposely giving it their all to try to gain something.

Now, don't get me wrong: I understand all about the sins of omission being as bad as the sins of commission, and that if a proper plan is not in place, in a sense you're planning for failure ... but  I never saw "clinch" as appropriate ... like the Pirates sitting around, salivating about how they could lose the next one, or the next one.

I know, I know, semantics ... but I'm not so sure "clinching" is an appropriate term for losers ... just winners.

And I also realize the Pirates becoming the sports franchise in sports history to lose 17 years in a row is news worthy.

Bay-You're preaching to the choir.

Personally, I'm glad this day has come and gone. Forasmuch as I like the job DK does, I hate the way he's used the word "clinch" in relation to the 17 consecutive years of losing ... When I think of someone "clinching" something, I think of it as being more of an active thing, like someone purposely giving it their all to try to gain something.

 Amen.

Given that the Pirates have apparently set a baseball record of historical significance, I wonder if the Commissioner will have a special pre-game ceremony tomorrow after the A. Palmer celebration wherein he presents the Pirates with the MLB Achievement Award.  

MayBayline-I gather no rake,but at least we get rid of the suffering.

www.youtube.com/watch

Correction- I think the official name of the Award is the "MLB Historic Achievement Award."  

I used to want to attend a game at PNC,but after seeing the perverse delight and joy some have at rubbing in the losing streak I am cured of even visiting the city.I feel sorry at how delighted some are at reaching this milestone.I guess just being a hick in the midwest is enough to suffice for me.I just don't see how some can revel in this.I...just....don't.Sorry if this upsets anyone.My apologies.

I sent DK's article to an English friend of mine -  this is his verbatim response to the article - I thought it was priceless.

" the owner is one optimistic fella given the track record.... you may want to suggest he pull his head out of the sand."

@curious-

I believe many of the pitchforkers here would suggest FO has even more dexterity than to merely stick head in sand.

boy that bixler has more lives than a cat and keeps floating to the surface like a cork. I hope the young man can step up and kick some tush. while part of me wants him to legally change his name to biKsler, I also want to see some of that wood that was good in AAA.

hacksaw, hack-man, geesh we can always use another good nickname guy. glad to have karstie back, and maybe veal will pack some heat. let the fall training continue...