Doumit not in starting lineup tonight

something new--a lineup thread and Pearce up to the 5 spot

So is Dejan going to expand this into the game thread or it will it sit here alone?

@2124,

Why would Crawford or Holliday ever come to the Pirates?  Even if they gave them an offer above market value, they would turn it down and either return to the contenders they are on, or go to a team with playoff aspirations.  Until the Pirates have enough players in their system to become a legitimate contender, free agents won't come to the Pirates until their sure they are a piece of a playoff caliber team.

posted after ants marched...

Everyone just might remember how Ohlendorf went 0-3 with a 6.35 ERA with the Pirates last year after being gotten in the Nady/Marte deal - where we supposedly got "hosed" at the time.

One year later, who was it that got hosed?

Now, we have self-professed experts who attempt to convince us that Doumit is justified in pouting and under-performing because it's a natural reaction to Nate-the-Great being traded, when Nate-the-Great has since performed at a level less than Steve Pearce, who they insist in the same breath is a minor league nobody.

Those same people are "unimpressed" with the Charlie Morton gotten for McLouth, who, aside from 1 terrible outing, has an ERA of 3.33 in the other 11 starts, and in 7 of his starts has allowed 2 runs or less! Duke has only 4 of his last 12 starts where he's allowed 2 runs or less, so I'd say Morton is not doing so bad, huh?

Like minded people say we got "hosed" by trading Gorzelanny (who the Cubs needed to start and perform immediately at a good level) for Hart (who both the Pirates and Cubs believed needed work but can improve).

Both Gorzo and Hart have almost the same ERA of 6 since the trade. Wow, the Pirates have really missed out on Gorzo's production!

Forget that Ohlie had an even higher ERA last year as Kerrigan began to work with him. Kerrigan already determined that it was doubtful Gorzo was able to improve much, as he wasn't able to take the instruction Kerrigan was giving him. Kerrigan said Gorzo couldn't consistently duplicate his delivery. That's why he was in the minors the whole year. In 2 of 5 starts, Gorzo has not been knocked out early in the second inning. Once again proving Kerrigan may have known what he was talking about.

Wake

What are you posting about now--I see no 2124 here?

Re: The continuing saga of DoumitGate:

- Both Interesting and unsettling.

Before we jump all over Doumit OR Russell, i think we need more info, which Dejan may be able to obtain later this afternoon.  (i know, lack of info never stopped us before.)

Out for a bit.  In the meantime, maybe Woodward or Bernstein would like a crack at this story.

"This front office has a track record of taking the easy road and trading players away rather than making an effort to work out differences......

Torres, Snell, Gorzy, Paulino, Bautista, etc.......

To the point they allow themselves to get hosed on the return like they did in the Torres and Gorzy cases......."

-_______________________________________

I apologize...I haven't read all of the posts today, but this one really stood out.  Each of the players above (except maybe Torres, maybe) are AAA-type players.  WHAT COULD WE HAVE POSSIBLY EXPECTED TO GET FOR THEM?  These players were not even average major leaguers.  The fact that we got ANYTHING for them was a steal.  And how did a Doumit-Russell discussion turn into FO bashing?  

My personal thoughts on the benching stem from the 1st inning.  I really think Doumit was peeved when LaRoche was IBB.  I think I heard him say something through the field mic, actually, to Macha.  Not sure what transpired from that....but something must have....maybe he shouldn't have hit into a DP?

Personally, I also think he's ticked that he's not batting cleanup (which he absolutely should not be).  Although feeling like you're more suited for it than Andy has some merit...

He should confront his own head if he's upset about anything.  He really stinks right now.

And is anyone giving JR credit for accountability, after barking that he never does?  

I am with Drew--we have no clue what led to Doumit being taken out last night and until we do know something posts on the subject are pure speculation.

Paulino was given every chance. and turned into a lazy slug.

Torres wanted to sue his employer.

Snell quit on his team and wanted to be sent down to the minors.

I think the FO did the right thing with each player, including Gorzo

@JAL,

2124 posted right before ants marched on the last blog.

Wake

Ok, wasn't there so when I saw your post I thought I was missing a post on this thread.

In the only early afternoon game the Yanks all all over the White sox 9-0 in 6th and Mitre has a 1 hitter going.

Just noticed--Bixler in at SS

I'm guessing Diaz will be one of those September call-ups.  I think the FO should hold off on bringing up Neil Walker until he spends a whole season in AAA hitting 25-30 home runs a season or batting .290 or better and driving in runs.  

I think that Bixler has played so little in the majors, that I have personally never actually seen him play on TV or in person.  

Open Blog to Ryan Doumit,

The front office may have given you plenty of reasons to slack/pout/go through the motions.  

There are probably more besides trading your buddies, some of whom were to form "the core" with you.

You are human.  You are also a  professional.  Please respect the uniform when you put it on.

Whatever transpired yesterday is history.  Please impress us fans tomorrow.

well, we did not have long here--game thread is up but nothing new

ants marching=======================================

I think JR may have given up on traditional #4 with The Group. it may be that andy isn't supposed to be a 20HR 100RBI guy, and that JR sees it as 1-2-3 and then a second set of 1-2-3 where andy gets on base, pearce singles, doubles or moves him and blastings drives in. makes some sense to me...maybe too much heat- coming off the mojave today and the normal 70 degrees is about 100. kind of like parts of the buc locker room?

from last thread-

@drew-

if you click on your screen name and get to the profile page you also have a tab for 'site' that shows at the bottom and e-mail set of choices. you may not have them configured on your end the way you thought, or the asylum member you are trying to e-mail to may have it chosen to not receive them.

I am jonesin' for the daquido doumit:macha:JR:FO psychodrama. at this point after seeing through the thread as collective wisdom, I hope it is something they can work out off field and he can get focused. but i can't help but think something happened JR felt was dugout or field behavior unbecoming the Leader or beneficial to the team as a whole. maybe frustration on one or both's parts. and why was FO there after to support or interrogate or criticize JR? enquiring minds want to know.

Doumit for J.J. Hardy.

If only we could get a decent return in a trade for Doumit  :(

MarkinDallas, good points all around.  I think the further along we go away from the trades the more and more many (or most) of the trades will tip to the Pirates favor.  I think the Marte/Nady trade will be seen as the most outstanding (You figure Ollie & Karstens have already proved to be extremely valuable out of the rotation and bullpen respectively AND if you add in what we think Jose Tabata will turn into AND then Daniel McCutchen....it could turn out to be one of the greatest trades in franchise history -- and not just because MArte & Nady have been hurt this year.

People also want to slam the Nationals trade, especially in light of Nyjer's performance prior to his season-ending injury, but I still think it may eventually tip towards the Pirates. Sean Burnett continues to be a solid left-handed reliever as we expected, and Joel Hanrahan seems to be getting more and more comfortable.  So, it's really going to come down to the performance of Lastings.  I still think even now, the trade was worth it.

Really the only trade that's not yet looking up is Bay.  But still Andy Laroche seems to be a solid major leaguer.  Brandon Moss could still come out of the woodwork.  But, really he's only going to be a fourth or fifth outfielder in the near future.  But he could be good at that role if he continues on his recent success of pinch hitting to go along with that monster arm he has in right field.    You hope that Craig Hansen can recover and Bryan Morris can, well yeah, recover in his own way.  So, if the Pirates end up with 3 of the 4 players on their roster for an All-Star like Bay, then it's not a terrible trade by any means.

Also, good points by Las Vegas Pirates Fan.  Agree with you on the trades and also about Doumit.  Good point about him being moved from the clean up spot.  I hadn't really thought about that.  I guess because we could all see how much he's been struggling since he came back, it just seemed obvious to move him down in the lineup.  I wonder, too, if he feels like this is his team to carry and he's embarrassed (or just plain frustrated) that he's been unable to do it.  Reminds me of the great performance by Anthony Mackie as Nate Ruffin in "We Are Marshall".  He felt the burden of trying to carry the entire team because he felt remorse and not having been in the crash with his teammates.  He felt it was his responsibility to continue no matter what, no matter how injured.  Might Ryan be putting so much pressure on himself to carry the team??  Once Adam Laroche got traded, all responsibility for power and driving in runs seemed to shift squarely on Doumit's shoulders (though that really isn't the case).    Just a thought.

Ryan...if you read this...PDX Pirate doesn't speak for everyone on this blog.

Posted this to Nu Hos before the thread changed,but it really can apply yo everyone : don't worry about La Roche and third base.When Alvarez is ready to come up,neither Andy or Walker will be playing there !

Is it too late to switch Walker back to catcher :-)