Pirates vs. Diamondbacks, 8-4-09

Interesting--Vazquez at 2nd and no DY

Vegas has the Pirates anywhere from -138 to -145 tonight. Wow. I have no idea what that means. Is that good? Does that mean they're a 145 run underdog? That seems a little high.

Jkid

No idea what that means but I'm sure someone will know

DY swung at a bunch of bad pitches last night and was looking very anxious. A couple of quick 0-2 counts as I recall. Maybe JR is giving him a little time to think it over. It looks to me like he is a little amped up right now. A night off may be a good thing.

-145 means that if you need to bet 145 dollars in order to win 100. So they are favored. +145 would mean that if you bet 100 dollars you would win 145.

That means that to bet the Bucs to win (no spread) you bet $145 to win $100. That makes them a solid but not prohibitive favorite.

Ya know, most people would equate betting $145 on $100 winner as a description of the FO's trading strategy. :)

I kid, I kid.

JuniataKid,

The -138 to -145 is the $'000 savings Bob Nutting will enjoy  tonight alone following all of the recent trades.

NuHo: dead horse appropriately beaten.

No offense Pearce, but I'd like you to sit this one out so Jones can go to first and Moss can be in right. We need Moss in the game - the more regularly he gets to the plate, the better he hits.

GIVE ZACH THE BALL!

ZACH WILL STAND TALL!

DUKE WILL MAKE ARIZONA PUKE!

TRACY WILL BE SPACEY!

DREW HAS THE FLU!

NU HOS IS BOSS!

DK,QUIT PUTTING UP LINKS OF FORMER PIRATES OR THE TINFOIL HAT CROWD WILL CALL YOU UNFAITHFUL TO NEAL AND FRANK!

From previous thread

@PoH - re - agents

Amen, maam.

Re- Plan A/Plan B

First of all, am not sure I heard of a plan B, but plan A is signing guys over slot.  If the PBC doesn't succeed, what changed on that?  None of us here made that up, it was stated and has been stated several times.

I don't think there is a plan B, this team will have to improve from within.  IMO we are not going out this offseason and making any splashes in the Free Agent Pool and as we have seen with the trades so far, you gotta give up something of quality to get something of quality, I can't imagine NH trading kids for today, nor am I real sure we have enough in the system to get much back

But what the heck do I know?

POH

i am with you on that--Jones at first and Moss in right

Duke better have his pitching clothes on tonight with that lineup, sorry, but bottom third, don't like the looks of that

NuHo -

I heard that Bob Nutting will be in the crowd today somewhere pickpocketing all of the fans....he is not content to rob us blind everyday with these trades of super-awesome superstar players that have brought us years of championships for horrible throwaway minor-leaguers. He literally has formulated a plan to discretely remove and each and every one of our wallets and take all of our cash out.

I've also heard that he's started an elaborate identity theft scheme that steals everyone's SSN and credit card info as soon as they enter the stadium.

He is currently building a large Money Bin somewhere in Shadyside with BIG dollar signs on it and his billions of dollars of profits in gold bullion, jewels and crowns that he can swim around in with Huey, Dewey and Louie.

Call it another tired subject, but whether Young has the jitters or not, Russell is supposed to be trotting out the starting lineup that gives the team the best odds of winning. Ramon Vasquez over Young doesn't seem to meet that criteria - and neither does playing Pearce. On the other hand, unless the team goes on a 10-game winning streak suddenly (as opposed to last season's 10-game losing streak to wrap up a 7-21 August), it may not mean much. And for that matter, it would seem that the one thing Russell could do to improve the odds of winning would be to know when to send a pitcher to the showers, instead of waiting to shut the barn door after the herd has escaped. That's got to be frustrating to the other 8 guys on the field, especially when they see a lead blown (again).

Brandon Moss should sit the bench today and everyday after....

Drew if you are still out there....

The more I think about it, I really think the appropriate measurement of the draft should be in comparison with other clubs and not arbitrary goals Neal stated in an interview.

The other clubs in our division all have operating plans that allow for higher payrolls at the major league level so if the Pirates are ever going to compete they need not only to maintain pace with those clubs draft signing results, but lead the pack.

Signing 28 or so picks and spending in the top 5 clubs in and of itself doesn't really tell us anything if the clubs in our division sign more players and spend as much or more dollars.

I think the kind of club summary I posted this morning would be a good start, but it would be great if we could identify a source so we could plug in the dollars in addition to the # of overall picks signed, the # of round 1 thru 20 picks signed, and the dollars of course.

Re: best lineup available

Hate to be the anti-cynic here, but could it be that JR wants Vasquez's superior defense at 2nd when his best groundball pitcher is on the hill?  DY hasn't been spectacular in the field so far, perhpas the downgrade on offense is worth it with his best chance to win on pitching tonight...

Now that makes great sense--lets sit the 2nd best fielding outfielder who also has been swing the bat well his last two starts.  

CometLittlefield,

You forgot the one about how Bob sources the clubs bobbleheads from low cost, child labor sweat shops in China that use deadly lead based 1970's era surplus paint in the production process.

I just thought about what just transpired over the weekend, we had the worst team in baseball come to town for 4 games and split the series after winning the first 2...In the 2 losses JR could have changed fate and made a change, but as usual he didnt, I have been watching baseball along time and I know when a manager makes a difference or not, JR does not and continues to be a ZOMBIE in the dugout.....If I had one ? for OWNERSHIP, I would want to know there real feelings about JR AS THE COACH, with all the changes , its not to far fetched that they CHANGE COACHES, which I think is needed.....My choice would be DAVE KERRIGAN and I mean it...

Nuho - yes, he has a longstanding agreement in place with Kathie Lee Gifford industries!

ProspectH

That seems like a good guess as to why Vazquez is there

Just because the Pirates won't spend money on keeping their own players, signing impact free agents, or putting money in the draft, doesn't mean Nutting is cheap.

It means he thinks we're stoopid.

@ProspectHunter - "Hate to be the anti-cynic here, but could it be that JR wants Vasquez's superior defense at 2nd when his best groundball pitcher is on the hill?"

Good point, Prospect! Excellent point ... and with our best-hitting pitcher on the mound tonight, we might not miss DY's bat one night.

@Cisco--<Russell is supposed to be trotting out the starting lineup that gives the team the best odds of winning. Ramon Vasquez over Young doesn't seem to meet that criteria.>

Have you seen DY vs Vazquez playing second?  Plus, Ramon at least knows how to take a pitch.  And maybe if we're behind after 6 JR can pull a reverse double switch.  ;-)

Demery--the tinfoil hat crowd?  You mean the ones who wear tinfoil to prevent the government from reading their minds?

Daryle,

You mean Joe Kerrigan? Or Dave Kerwin? :)

@kragbax

You got it :)

<<You mean Joe Kerrigan? Or Dave Kerwin? :)  >>

Ha!

Man, we have all these cool gangs and factions cropping up here on the blog.

There is the Tin Foil crowd and militant new Thought Police...

I want to be in a gang.

- The question is, is there one whose principles I believe in and should just join, or should I start my own?

Whatever gang I am in, we are going to have jackets.

daryle--I have a lot of the same complaints about JR as you do and have also talked about replacing him.  But, really, with the team he has now he is the perfect guy to do what the FO said they liked about him in the first place.  And that is to take a bad team, out of contention, and keep them playing hard.  And he didn't lose the last two games any more than Neal did.  That's just the team we have right now.

umm, the Dave Kerwin jokes are so two weeks ago.

Tinfoil?!  You really meant tinfoil?

I thought it was a typo for Tim Foli.

I know the name of the game is winning, but its not about now, they are playing for the future

"Now that makes great sense--lets sit the 2nd best fielding outfielder who also has been swing the bat well his last two starts."

Pearce hit a homer and double Friday night, and went 2-3 with 2 walks last night. Moss went 1-4 with a K and 2 LOB in his last start.Give Pearce the chance to play.

Bizzy,

Wait! - I thought the name of the game was profit?

;-)

                 PEARCE IS FIERCE!

<<Whatever gang I am in, we are going to have jackets.>>

Back to the Milachi Brothers references, eh? Or is this more of a "John Travolta in Grease" thing?

Bay-That batting helmet wouldn't be an ice cream bowl would it?(you might want to hide it from Bob Walk)  ;-)

I'm with missthesanchez -  Brandon Moss is a slug.  Give Pearce his month to sink (most likely) or swim, then give Clement a shot.  Although I must admit, as a RF, Garrett Jones makes a pretty good 1B.  BTW, when was "The Natural"s last HR again?

DY's been pressing at the plate though too, so a day off may not be a bad idea...and please remember that I like DY, m'kay?  ;-)

POH,

Your gang would definitely wear long sleeve button down sweaters.

;-)

@ NU HO ,

Militant, Gang ????

Ask BOB SMIZIK if he wants to be in your gang since he TKO'D the other day .....LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Man, its gonna be a long 3 1/2 years in here....

Brandon Moss is not a slug.

I have slugs in my yard for some unknown reason, and at night they crawl up on my garage and do the tango of love. They are disgusting. And gross. And I have to hose off their trail of slime.

Never call Brandon a slug, unless I've seen him on my garage, which I haven't. And he doesn't leave a trail.

POH,

With a kleenex conveniently stuffed inside the sleeve.

;-)

DMac

Is there anybody you don't like??  ; }

And his last two starts Moss is 3 for 8 with 3 runs scored and 2 RBI--hardly stats that merit "Brandon Moss should sit the bench today and everyday after...."

Daryle,

I don't think Bob is speaking to me anymore.

JR absolutely needs to be held accountable - remember that word NH?  Not only has he cost us at least a half dozen games with his non-existent hook, his incongruous lineup changes are devastating to the stability of the team (oh, wait, he did keep the same lineup two days in a row, but that didn't work so we won't see that again).

JR:  How's about you stop tinkering with the lineup and start tinkering with your SP who EVERYONE can see is about to blow up.  

[I just don't think this guy has the 'feel' to be a successful manager]

POH,

Speaking of the slugs in your yard, oh this is soooo cool.

Next time you see one, pour a little table salt on it.

The instantaneously blow up. - Some kinds of weird chemical reaction.

True story, you have to try it.

Our bullpen is in total shambles.  Vets Grabow and Burnett are gone.  Capps stinks and can only pitch in a save situation.

Veal can only pitch in a blow-out.  Chavez and Meek are young and may be running out of gas.  Actually everyone in that pen may be running out of gas.   That may be part of the reason JR didn't lift the starter earlier the past few games ( Maholm and Morton come to mind)

Bizzy,

Dmac doesn't like snarky people.

;-)

@ Nuho

Both of you made good points, he seemed to think you didnt have all your facts ....

I would rather have seen danny moskos out there than Maholm in the 7th...

But Moss is not driving the ball out of the yard. And with Garrett and Pearce thats what this team needs right now.

Jones might not have a HR in a while, but he's still getting hits and getting on base.

Pearce sat two game over the weekend so that Moss could play.  Now it's Pearce's time.  Anyone really complaining about this is really stretching for something to criticize.

Delwyn hasn't exactly been swinging a hot bat and most likely is still getting accustomed to playing 2nd.  No harm in sitting one game in favor of Vasquez.

By the way, does anyone know why the Bucs let go of the Taiwanese pitcher Cheng from A ball?  He had a decent record at the time that he was waived, and there was no explanation offered by Dejan.

Daryle,

And I think Bob conveniently omitted some facts.

Randy laid there like a slug, it was his only defense.

Some days the same can be said for us in here...

LOL...Biz, I just didn't want anyone thinking I was anti-DY.  TO answer your question, if they're in Black and Gold, they're on my good list.

I'm with PoH...Let's not compare Moss to slugs.  We went camping on Vancouver Island and they have these slugs that are 4 inches long and 3/4 in around...the first moring we had the aforementioned trails slime up the side of the tent.  Very gross.  We subsequently put a moat of salt around the tent.  Almost as gross the next morning, but at least they weren't on our tent.  :-)

Where'd you guys learn this thing about salt and slugs . . . Supernatural?

Man, its gonna be a long 3 1/2 years in here....

========================================================

@ Bizrow

That's the best thing I've read in here post firesale

Thanks for the laugh!

Hos - if you're still out there...I just signed back on and read your post re draft goals.  i'll stick to the original measurement.  Reason: as in sales management, i don't really evaluate reps against other reps but against pre-set goals.  if we evaluate against other teams, you have to wait until the time period is over to even know what the goal is, let alone know how you measured against it.  Rep A or Team A has no control over what Rep B or Team B does with draft.  But they have much more control over their own actions and against pre-set goals.  So while they may not be the best measurements, i'm going to stick with them.  They have the added benefit of being what you and i agreed to use as measurements for our Aug 18 discussion (but i recognize that's irrelevant re: PBC).

everyone notice i'm leading off and playing ss for the Snakes?

Peter Gammons has a new article up on espn.com.  It is titled:

"Prospects uncertain, but still held in high regard"

I couldn't read the whole thing because I am not an "insider" but it seemed to be an interesting take on how ranking of prospects can change quickley...and be wrong.

miss

Other than Cutch no one has been driving the ball out the yard--Jones hit 10 quickly and then stopped, Pearce has 1.  Also, power develops last as baseball will tell you and Moss is in his first full year.  Jones is more natural at first than the outfield.  Really it pick two of three out of a hat and you get about the same hitting wise over that last week.

off for a bit--carry on

Speaking of Delwyn Young, IMO he out of all the prospects Huntington has acquired has a tremendous opportunity in front of him if he is willing to work hard enough to learn how to field at second base adequately.

The thing is IMO it's clear his bat would play well for a second baseman. The trick is, can he improve his fielding well enough to be an acceptable second baseman?

He has argueably the best infielding coach on the planet at his disposal to help him get there.

Given his bat, if he puts in the time and effort on the fielding side, he could fashion himself a nice career.

IMO hitting is the hard part. - The fielding can come with hard work.

It's entirely up to him.

Maybe over the last week. Pearce was brought up though to show what he can do. Moss has already shown that he cannot do much- he had the whole first half of the season. He is only still here because a.) nobody else wants him and b.) ownership does not want to show that they received a bust in the Bay trade.

Wilver,

The salt and slug knowledge is a family thing we pass down from one generation to the next in my family.

Duke could move up to #7 in this lineup.

There were some comments on Young's defense.  I was a massive critic early on, but am pleasantly surprised at the progress that he's made at 2nd.  FSN Pittsburgh has shown clips of him working with Perry Hill and said that he's been working extra hours every day.  I'm impressed with the effort and I'm impressed with the results.  He still has a long way to go, but WOW... old dog, new tricks, short amount of time.

I agree with Thundercrack... the bullpen is our biggest problem right now.  

Meek, Chavez and Karstens have been overworked lately and it is taking its toll.  Hanrahan is very inconsistent, and you can't plan on him going very long.  

Without a bullpen, we have to leave the starters in longer, and that is when they have been getting in trouble.

I really think it is time to bring up a couple of arms from AAA just to rest some of these guys.  It may mean a rough week, but it will hopefully help the rest of the season.

And his last two starts Moss is 3 for 8 with 3 runs scored and 2 RBI--hardly stats that merit "Brandon Moss should sit the bench today and everyday after...."

Talk about a small sample size.  How about the first 7 weeks of the season when he had 1 (count 'em), 1 RBI?

- Bizrow - Thanks for the "Christmas Story" shout out.

NuHos << He has argueably the best infielding coach on the planet at his disposal to help him get there >>

There you going being positive again.  Hill was a tremendous pick-up for NH.

I'm out-

Robbie's dad - how many games did he play in the first seven weeks? He has NEVER been out there daily, has he, this season?

It's a pay as you play system.

You have to produce to earn additional opportunities for playing time.

The days of scholarships are over.

I hate to give you Pearce haters a heart attack, but Pearce's numbers since his callup are

.294 AVG / .385 OBA / .529 SLG / .914 OPS

That's not too bad, no?

PG SERVER: Don't include me in the Pearce haters, please. I'm certainly not. I just prefer to get Moss out in the OF, and to do that we need to move Jones in, because Cutch and Milledge aren't going anywhere else.

That's all it is for me. Pearce is doing better this call up than he ever has for us - except for that one September of his amazing year.

CAVE'S MINOR LEAGUE PLAYERS OF THE MONTH

AKA 'THE NITRO AWARDS"

Position-  Honorable mention goes to OF Quincy Latimore at West Virginia.  Quincy batted .330 for the month with 36 hits in 109 AB.  He also collected 4 HR, 9 Doubles, 3 Triples and 20 Rbi.  

The NITRO AWARD winner for July is:

Brian Bixler- Indy- Brian batted .343 for the month, gathering 37 hits in 108 AB, including 6 Doubles, 3 Triples, 6 HR, 17 Runs and 20 Rbi.  His OBP was .408 and he Slugged .620.

Pitcher- Honorable mention goes to Daniel McCutchen at Indy.For the month, Daniel went 4-1 in 5 games started.  He threw 30 innings giving up 30 hits, 2 walks and struck out 17.

His ERA was 2.10 and batters hit .259 against him.

The NITRO AWARD winner for July is :

Jhonatan Ramos- Bradenton-  For those of you who didn't read an earlier post, Jhonatan is a 20 year old lefthander, who stands 5'8"and weighs 156 pounds.  He was drafted out of Venezuela in 2007 and played in the VSL until this year.

For the month, Jhonatan appeared in 5 games and threw 20 innings.  In those 20 innings, he gave up 0 runs,  8 hits, 1 walk and struck out 19.  He record was 4-0 and his WHIP was .61.  

Congratulations to this month's NITRO AWARD winners.  

Speaking of Young's defense, wasn't that awesome when he slid his foot under Nyjer's leg so he could not touch the base on that steal/pickoff?

You know the Pirates' staff was just waiting to use that trick!

    MOSS NEEDS MORE FLOSS!

Good evening asylum, there would be no better way to get the taste of that ugly loss last night out of our mouths then to come out tonight and get Zachary his 10th W. Dissappointed Jones didn't get player of the month, but not surprised Pirate players have to hit .500, with 15 HR, and 25RBI to get player of the month over someone from a St. Louis, Los Angeles, or Philadelphia.

A SHORTSTOP! A SHORTSTOP!

Yipee!!!!!!!

Congrats, Mr. Jones. Good for you!

The Deybis Benitez file: web.minorleaguebaseball.com/.../stats.jsp

Maybe, but                   DUKES GOT HIS JUKE

OK PoH! :)

BTW, just for equal opportunity, here are Moss's numbers in that same period...

.241 AVG / .313 OBA / .241 SLG / .554 OPS

If we go back to that "break out" game where he hit his first HR in July and just start from there until now...

.207 / .303 / .414 / .717

Hmmm....

NuHo

For your collection.

If you feed a pigeon alot of dry rice and water,  it will eventually explode.  

It is a poor man's grenade used in third world countries.

Cave,

Interesting tidbit. - Thanks.

Pidgeons are rats with wings IMO they way the scrounge garbage on city streets.

Trade?   I never heard of either one of them.

Wait, shouldn't that either be.....

Dukes got his jukes?

Or

Duke has his juke?

Cave -- That's why you don't feed wheat to horses.

That's what the rest of my family does for entertainment: I watch the ballgame, they go salt slugs.

The other night they got like 50 of them, and the next morning every fly in the county was in our yard sipping slug juice. That was almost as gross in itself, so I have imposed a salting limit.

What's up with the D-backs Chris Young anyway?

So many tools, so little to show for them?

Garrett Jones needs to get comfortable in the field, so the more starts, the better.  Alvarez will most likely take over 1st base, so it is better that Jones learn the outfield now and let someone like Alvarez or Clement or Doumit take 1st base in the future.

The rest of this year should be used for talent evaluation.

It matters not that they put the team on the field with the greatest likelihood of winning.

Management gave up on that dream long ago, like January.

Pearce needs to be looked at more closely under game conditions,  as does Milledge and Young.

Jones really doesn't matter for he is old for a rookie and won't be around long anyways, same logic as what many of you correctly reasoned about Nyjmo.

   SLUGS ARE NASTY BUGS!

There once was a young lad named slug

some say he is nothing but a big bug

he likes to leave a little slime

a sure sign of his crime

not that he minds if you give him a real big hug

Nu Ho

I was thinking the samething about Young, worst part is that bum is one of the biggest reasons why my fantasy team is in 5th in my league!

Cave Bonifield wrote re: Pirates vs. Diamondbacks, 8-4-09

on Tue, Aug 4 2009 10:31 PM

The rest of this year should be used for talent evaluation

Agreed, but once the ump Yells play ball I would like to see some management to win. if I have one item that I think should be better addressed it is the recognition of pitcher breakdowns.

While many players who come out of nowhere and hit a ton of HRs and soon fizzle out once the pitchers union figures out what they can't hit, when our Mr. Jones began being pitched to more carefully he simply switched to singles and doubles. To my simple brain this suggests he may have some staying power.

demery

You could be a poet!

demery

You could be a poet!

Perry Hill said last night that if they didn't think DY had the tools to learn the position, they woulnd't be putting in all the effort with him.  IMO, that's a pretty good endorsement of what they think they have in DY.  

@AW...We learned about salting slugs at Girl Scout Day Camp.  

Congrats to Jones!  YAY!

Anywhere from seven months to five years to fully recover??

Geeze Hansen maybe you ought start thinking about calling

it a career.

@ THUNDERCRACK

USE MY LOG IN FOR ESPN

ITS MY BUDDIES

SBCPARK

GIANTS

You will be FRANK

I have a request.  Can we quit using the word hate here?  IMO it just doesn't belong.

Now to baseball

What do we do with Hanson?  7 months to 5 years for full recovery?  The 40 man roster will be crowded come off season, can we afford to keep him?  Maybe we cut him and sign him to a minor league contract?

@Jersey Joe - manage to win

Thats how you develop a club/team, I couldn't agree more.  And you throw people into situations to challenge them, haven't read the paper yet, but there was an article about the lefty relief pitching stuff, why not give Veal a chance?

But the real mission for the rest of the season is develop whats here and see what is there, some tough decisions this off season

One more thing before this gets too long, there was talk today about how the trading deadline delayed draft pick signings?  I thought about this on the way home which shows you how pitiful of a life I have (but I haven't started salting slugs yet, kidding, no offense intended)

Wouldn't signings be handled by folks other than NH?  Who does that?  I wouldn't think NH is negotiating with all of the draft choices

"I support the team and everything, but I'll be honest: I haven't watched much. It's too hard for me to just sit back and watch ..."

Umm? Really?

If you don't care about the team winning, maybe the team doesn't care about your recovery...?

Quite a contrast with Doumit, you think?

Forgot to say this, Jones hasn't gone deep in a while, but he doesn't look like a deer in the headlights either, good comment Papacoach, the game is constant adjustment, readjustment, hit the ball hard somewhere, Jones is still doing that.

His award is good news, we need stuff like that

Cullen

You took it out of context--he said he supports the team but is hard to watch because he can't play.  He never siad he did not care.

Let me know if I am going OVERBOARD, Yesterday I stated that AMAC reminded me of SORIANO, I now change that and say his hands remind me of ERIC DAVIS , Who was a 3rd or 4th place guy in the lineup, I know some say AMAC hitting home runs is not a good thing because he may try all the time but I say to that, what if this kid has that NATURAL POP in his bat and would help the team more IN THE 3 OR 4 HOLE, I truly beleive this guy has that type of power .....

Biz

Good question--I think they will not make a decision until it gets closer to next season.  They can just keep him on the DL for now.

Hansen - five years? How depressing is that span of time for an athlete to hear?

oooh  gonna have another Brewers problem?  Just read that Zimmerman is out tonight from a sore shoulder after Morton hit him last night.  Seems it got worse after the game last night.

5yrs recovery = soon to be insurance salesman. Maybe he can work for Tommy Maddox?! :) j/k.

I feel for the guy. I'm sure he's counting on it being a lot closer to the 7mths. But I'd wager if he's not close come next spring training, he'll be moved off the roster.

Zimerman has a very weird throwing motion. First time I ever really looked at it was last night. A couple of those throws to first were very weak. It's like he stands facing first and never turns his hips, he just uses his large size and arm to try to put some juice into his throws. Bizarre for a highly rated guy. His glove is great though.

Two unconnected thoughts

If I am DY I would be planning to move in with Perry Hill and work all winter on learning 2B

Most clubs, and understandably so, would cut Hansen loose at the end of the year. It will be an interesting show of class to resign him to a minor league contract while he recovers. Just thinkin'

Kragbax

"5yrs recovery = soon to be insurance salesman. Maybe he can work for Tommy Maddox?! :) j/k. "

Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

Daryle --thank you!  You da man!   That is what this blog should be about: people helping people, pirate fans helping pirate fans.

That Gammons article is just another in a long line that says if you ask enough baseball people about a "prospect" you will probably get just as many positive opinions as you do negative.  The same goes with evaluating 'plans'.

Man, Stan is really doing everything in his power to still tell us that we're watching Sportsbeat

In re the trade, I have seen Koplove pitch quite a bit. He has that sidearm kinda flinging motion that is hard to detect.He has a little value, even to the Pirates MLB club. Weird to be trading him to a guy who has been kicking around a ball for three years.

                            Hear Ye hear Ye                        

                      Special Announcement

                            next gathering

                    The WSB and trade talk

                         Aug 8th  1:00 pm

             At the double wide in south side  

               followed by a game on Aug 9th    

                   RSVP  tjfran@comcast.net

For all those who have never come to a gathering this is the one to talk about this past week.  Much fun discussion will be had by

PAPA, with all due respect for perry, but I still cast my vote he moves to iowa with Maz. No one alive ever turned a double play like him.  Then when Maz gets ddone you send him to perry.

Pre-Game Questions and Observations

@Drew71- Do you seriously expect the Pirates' record to improve more than a little (IMO, it will more likely be worse, as much as I hate to say it) in 2010? Or are you just saying that to set a deadline so we can start judging FC/NH's performance if/when they don't get better? If that's the case, I'm with you, because I don't think there's any way the Bucs make any significant improvement by 2010. There is just so much to be learned and experienced by so many different players. Got to walk before you run, man.

As for Russell as the manger, I don't know what else you expect him to do. He is obviously charged with making sure as many people as possible get a chance to show what they can do so management can make judgements on who to keep or not keep. It's preliminary spring training, nothing more. No amount of yelling and screaming will improve the Pirates lot until they get some players that are familiar with what it takes to win consistently in the majors. There isn't really anyone on the team that has those credentials right now. By 2012-13? Well, maybe. But that might be the time you see the next wave of trading begin (Bye, Cutch).

As for DY sittting out, I think it's a great idea. He looked bad last night, seemed to be fighting the ball at the plate, swinging at the first pitch so often, then swinging at balls in the dirt as well. Look what a night or two off did for Pearce. He actually hit the ball more solidly.

Enjoy the picture of Hansen that adorns the blog. A nerve condition in the neck/back area is almost always a death knell for an athlete's career. When the condition actually has a name, that's even worse. Bye, Craig, thanks for the most humorous post-game explosion of F-bombs in Pirate history! And I had such high hopes for him after that.(sigh)

Nice job by Zachary to get out of a bit of a jam there.

Game time!

Drew takes, ball 1.  Misses again, 2-0.  Fly ball to LF.  Milledge makes the catch.  1 away.

Roberts takes low, ball 1.  And he lines the next pitch to LF for a single.

Upton steps in and Zach throws to 1st.  First pitch to Upton misses, 1-0.Lined to RF...it hits off the base of the wall.  Roberts is held at 3rd and Upton is in at 2nd with a double.

Reynolds takes ball 1.  Misses inside, 2-0.  Can't check his swing, 2-1.  Catches the inside corner, 2-2 count.  Misses low, 3-2 count.  Popped up on the INF grass.  Andy comes in and makes the catch.  2 away.

Parra didn't mean too...rolls it right in front of the plate, Ryan fields and throws to Pearce.  Side retired.

Nats don't score, Bucs coming to bat.

Duke has to keep the down--flys not good to him

Personage-Turner is a relatively rare muscle disorder involving the collection of nerves near your armpit called your brachial plexus. It can lead to profound weakness, and even paralysis in the the muscles supplied by the affected nerves. I have never seen a case formally. In retrospect my cousin, who is a chef near Albany had a transient weakness in his arm and hand ( he used to call it his "monkey claw". IT lasted a good three years, and he said even now it is not quite his strong as it once was. It is fully functional though. I have doubts that Hansen will ever pitch again, and most certainly will not for the Pirates. Just a sad case, but thank God, not a progressive neuromuscular condition like ALS, which is what I feared a few months ago when I heard he had a nerve problem that was causing muscle weakness.

Wow, we really dodged a bullet in the top of the 1st.  Maybe this is their bases loaded, no outs moment for today!

isn't Petit the guy the Pirates knocked around last week?

For anyone with more than a passing interest in Craig Hansen's illness:

www.orpha.net/.../uk-Turner.pdf

AMac leads off and he looks at a called strike, 0-1.  Catches the outside corner, 0-2.  Misses low, 1-2.  Grounds it foul.  Chopped to the right side, Reynolds charges and fields.  The throw to Tracy is offline, but he tags AMac as he comes down the line.  1 away.

Milledge swings and misses, 0-1.  Up and in, 1-1 count.  Swings and misses, 1-2.  Just misses away, 2-2.  Misses low, 3-2.  Popped foul and out of play.  Swings and misses, strike 3.  

Jones takes outside, 1-0.  He strokes it to the right side but Roberst makes a nice play to stop it from going into RF...he throws to Tracy.  Side retired.

No score after 1.

wake

Yes it is.

"Hansen - five years? How depressing is that span of time for an athlete to hear?"

Probably almost as bad as 17 years is to a fan.

few more innings like that and Petit might get his ERA under 6

Hostage

I would say worse because most fans have a lot more years as fans than an athlete has to be a professional athlete.

Snyder takes strike 1.  Misses outside, 1-1.  Misses down and in, 2-1.  Grounded to 3rd, Andy fields and throws, but it bounces short and Pearce can't come up with it.  E-5.

Tracy takes ball 1.  Takes and looks at a called strike, 1-1.  Misses, 2-1.  Fouled away, 2-2 count.  Fly ball that lands foul down the LF line.  Fly ball to shallow L-CF...Milledge makes the catch.  Runner holds at 1st.  1 away.

Chris Young takes a strike at the knees, 0-1.  Popped up in foul ground behind the plate.  Ryan makes the catch. 2 away.

Petit lines the first pitch toward CF...Vazquez makes a NICE catch for the 3rd out.

So after talking about Andy and a gold glove he makes a throwing error.

Good thing I didn't try to go to the game tonight, looks like it would have been hard to find a seat...

Ryan leads off and takes a called strike, 0-1.  Misses inside, 1-1.  He lifts it to shallow CF...Roberts comes way over from 2B to makes the catch.  1 away.

Pearce takes a called strike, 0-1.  Swings and misses, 0-2. Misses outside, 1-2.   Grounded to 2nd, Roberst to Tracy.  2 away.

Andy takes, ball 1.  Misses outside, 2-0.  Catches the outside corner, 2-1.  Fouled away, 2-2.  Fly ball to CF...Young makes the catch.  Side retired.

Still scoreless after 2.

JAL&Hostage

Being told you can't play is much much worse then 17 loosing seasons as a fan. If for some reason I would have to miss my senior year of football thsi year that would tear me up and be alot worse, then it would be if the NFL or MLB or NHL were to go on strike or something like that. Because as fan if your teams loosing you know you'll see a winner eventually, hopefully, and if a league goes on strike you know within a year or so they'll get everything settled and be back to playing. A perfect example being a few years ago when the NHL went on strike I was angry, but it wasn't that big a deal because I knew they'd settle the labor dispute and be back playing. But when your a player you only have so many years you can play, and if you have just one season taken away it will tear you up inside and eat at you, let alone something like this that could be, and is most likely, ccarreer ending.

Martyy

I agree

Fun server tonight--posts go away then return.  Just responded to one that is now gone but I am sure it will back when I post this

Drew takes a called strike, 0-1.  Misses, 1-1.  Catches the   outside corner, 2-1.  Grounded to SS...Cedeno to Pearce.  1 away.

Roberts takes a called strike, 0-1.  Misses upstairs, 1-1.  Crap...he parks one in the D-Backs bullpen.  

Upton hits a fly ball to LF...Milledge makes the catch.  2 away.

Reynolds takes a strike on the outside corner, 0-1.  Misses upstairs, 1-1.  Misses inside, 2-1.  Misses outside, 3-1.  Swings and misses, 3-2.  Lined to LF and it falls in for a single.

Parra takes a strike on the outside, 0-1.  Swings and misses, 0-2.  In the dirt, 1-2.  Fouled away.  Throw to 1st.  Fouled away.  In the dirt, 2-2.  Fly ball to CF...AMac is there to make the catch.  Side retired.

The Nats score first on the solo shot by Roberts...1-0

Marty, if you are for real still in high school, I say good job to your parents even if you don't know the real poet.  I drove  demery to his insanity, just ask him, Ihold onto my credits.

Saw a comment about John Russell above and though I'd say this...

The Pirates let Jim Tracy go, and he's like 41-19 with the Rockies.

It's the TALENT, not the MANAGER that makes a ML team successful.

Sparky Anderson and Joe Torre put together could not coax 80 wins out of the Pirates as currently put together.

Gorzo scoreless thru 2 innings against Reds. 1 hit.

"The Nats score first on the solo shot by Roberts...1-0"

Man DMac must be having a hangover from that 8 run barrage last night! LOL j/k

Vazquez leads off takes outside, 1-0.  Catches the inside corner, 1-1.  Popped up on the edge of the grass at SS...Drew makes the catch.  1 away.

Cedeno takes outside, ball 1.  Fouled away, 1-1.  Fouled away again, 1-2.  Misses low and away, 2-2.  Fly ball to RF...it looks like Upton had the ball but it drops to the grass and Cedeno is in at 2nd!  It's charged as an error to Upton .

Zach takes strike 1.  Misses, 1-1.  Fouls away, 1-2.  Fouled away.  Cedeno takes off, Duke hits it in the air to CF but Young makes the catch and Cedeno makes it back to 2nd in time.  2 away.

AMac takes up and in, 1-0.  Misses low, 2-0.  Takes, strike 1...2-1.  Misses low, 3-1.  Cedeno goes, and it's ball 4 to AMac.  

Runners at 1st and 3rd, 2 away.

Milledge hits the first pitch to CF...Young makes the catch.  Side retired.

After 3, 1-0 Nats.

ugh--being no hit by a pitcher with an ERA over 6 yjtough 3 innings

JERSEY JOE HAS HIS JUKE!

Duke getting shelled.  It's going to be a long night.  Might see Veal eary.

Getting no hit by a pitcher with an ERA over 6 and give up a 2 run shot to a guy hitting .197 for the year.  Finding ways to lose.  

@HOSTAGE

I guess Young read your comments about his POTENTIAL...

Bob Walk just said the ball is carrying, for the SNAKES not us..This is getting embarassing....

just my observation,  Duke seems to have his shoulder following a little late

Even good pitchers are going to have off days where their stuff is not right.  Duke has pitched many better games where he didn't even get the win.  Oh well.

jj

Well yes I am going to be a senior in high school this year, and I am sure my parent, don't have a mother, would be glad to hear that! And no I have no idea who the real poet is!

LOL...Oops...That took me a minute to figure out...No, joerevs, I guess 4 straight games does that!  

Sorry, gangs...The D-backs lead 1-0.  

Snyder leads off for Arizona and hits the first pitch to CF...AMac makes the catch.  1 away.

Tracy takes a called strike, 0-1.  Takes inside, 1-1.  Misses low, 2-1.  Misses low and away, 3-1.  And he draws the walk.

Young takes low, 1-0.  Misses inside, 2-0.  Kerrigan out to the mound.  Catches the outside corner, 2-1.  Fly ball to L-CF...and that lands in the bullpen for a 2-run shot.   Crap.

Petit fouls the first pitch away, 0-1.  Misses, 1-1.  Chopped to the right side, Vazquez fields and throws to Pearce.  2 away.

Pitch to Drew misses low, 1-0.  Lined to RF for a single.  

Roberts takes ball 1.  Misses outside, 2-0.  He hits it into the seats by the Notch.  Crap.

Upton takes strike 1.  Fouled away, 0-2.  In the dirt, 1-2.  Misses inside, 2-2.  Swings and misses, strkke 3.  That retires the side.

But the D-backs add 4 more, and now lead 5-0.

Yusmiero Petit, Brian Moehller, David Huff, Mike Hampton, the list goes on, and on, and on, and on.

0-2 count to Jones.  And he goes down looking on a strike at the knees.  1 away.

Ryan smokes the first one foul, 0-1.  Pops it up on the INF...Roberst makes the catch.  2 away.

Pearce takes a strike on the inside, 0-1.  Swings and misses, 0-2.  Half-swings and pops it to Trace for the 3rd out.

After 4, 5-0 Arizona.

Just a list of pitchers that have beaten us?

Good thing Upton dropped that ball or this would have perfect game written all over it:  Lame at bats.  Check swing outs.  5 or 6 pitch innings.

Could see that coming from the first inning--too many first pitch balls and too many in the air.  Looks like his sinker wasn't working and he can't survive without it.  Just one of those bad starts even the best pitchers have.  Unfortunately, this game looked thye most winnable of the series on paper.

Okay JR lets get Zachary out of there.

"Pitch to contact theory" should probably be abandoned for the rest of this game.

wake

Struggling pitcher who have beaten us.

For some reason, I don't think we would ever see Nyjer wearing those Clown Yellow shoe laces...

Might be 9-0 real soon.

Gorzo 4 innings 2 hits 0 runs.

Reading

Not quite--Cutch walked so 2 away from perfect

Correction.  Didn't realize that pitcher was up with bases loaded.

Aw man. That Craig Hansen news is awful. I wish him a speedier-than-predicted recovery.

Reading -- they took your advice and started walking people.

Nuho, Consider my membership application for "your gang". The hilarious thing is you say some many things "tongue in cheek" that people don't get. Also I find it hilarious when people talk about beating a dead horse as they post rhymes, do running play by play of games that are gamecast, and post incessantly about personal gatherings, and most amusing having an avatar so you can be recognized and be one of "the guys".

    One a more serious note how is we have the best infield coach in the business, the best pitching coach in the business, one of the best hitting coaches in the business (even to the point where N.H. says we can improve bad hitters we trade for who have already been in the majors with 3 clubs). And last but not least the best front office in all of sports. How does excellence of all the pasts still equal complete garbage in terms of results. And the real only full blown major leaguer we trot out is the one guy out of 300 draft picks and counts trades Littlefield stumbled across (Cutch). Oh, that's right we have to give the F.O. more time it wasn't their fault even though they committed to Freddy, Ian, and others who they then had to dump for reduced compensation because of their ridiculous contracts. This F.O. office did inherit a bad team but their performance is dreadful and if you think the building blocks are there for a much brighter future send me a stash of what you are smoking.

  It looks like the beginning of another collapse and a true fan doesn't blindly accept whatever b.S. this group tries to swindle you with. Pathetic, truly pathetic.          

Reynolds takes a called strike, 0-1.  SIngles to LF.

Parra singles on the first pitch to LF.

Jackson is warming in the Pen.

Snyder takes, ball 1.  Misses outside, 2-0.  Catches the outside corner, 2-1.  Misses low, 3-1.  Popped to shallow CF...AMac makes the catch.  1 away.  

Tracy hits a fly ball to LF...Milledge makes the catch.  2 away.

Young takes low, ball 1.  Misses low again, 2-0.  Takes a called strike, 2-1.  Misses low, 3-1.  And it's ball 4.  

Bases loaded, 2 away.

Petit takes low, ball 1.  Fouled away, 1-1.  Misses, 2-1.  Grounds it to Cedeno, throw to Vazquez.  Side retired.

Daryle...the Pirates' aren't hitting it in the air so much either.  

Demery, Ijust knew that would lure you out

If this no-hitter comes to fruition, the bad national press will reach a new low.

A depressing night,

IMO numbers to remember, numbers are measurable

18 - wins to avoid 100 losses

13 days till midnight to implement Plan A

3 1/2 - years till we see the light, maybe

Course at my age I might see the light sooner

As the Pirates Turn??, Sigh, I hate soap operas

Pitch-to-contact has never worked that I know of, short of a guy who can spot the ball within a millimeter of where he wants it - Greg Maddux in his prime comes to mind. Seems more likely to me that you'll find or develop an ace by some other method.

I sure hope NH isn't trading away Bucs talent for pitching prospects on the theories which led Cleveland to believe in Jeremy Sowers, who is to my mind the poster boy of "pitch to contact".

This thing tonight is about as ugly as ugly gets. It's enough to make a person take a second look at a link Dejan posted this morning:

jay-mariotti.fanhouse.com/.../selig-must-investigate-quittsburgh-mess

Even a person like me who's been defending NH all this while.

Andy grounds to SS...Drew to Tracy.  1 away.

Vazquez takes ball 1.  Takes a strike at the letters, 1-1.  Fly ball to R-CF...Upton makes the catch.  2 away.

Observation...the balls to RF aren't carrying as well as those to L, L-CF which is where the HR's have gone.

Cedeno takes ball 1.  Takes a called strike, 1-1.  Fouled away, 1-2.  Swings and misses, strike 3.

AFter 5.  5-0 D-Backs.

Someone in the national media will probably call for an asterisk to be placed next to the no-hitter.

Pghboyinca,

Consider us brothers in arms my friend.

I'm glad at least one person gets my humor around here.

;-)

Getting serious now-no hits through 5 and looks like noting even close to a hit.

Jersey, late response to an earlier post,. No one is more a fan of Maz and his ability to play 2B than I. I was 8 in 1960 and had my mother draw a 9 on the back of all my t-shirts but I think it all came so easy to Maz I'm not sure he could explain what it was he did. THat's the chief reason I recommended a winter with Perry :)

The offense has had some bad, and I mean bad nights this year, but come on! This is PATHETIC!

gorzo 5 innings 2 hits 0 runs 0 walks 5 k's

NEAL WILL MAKE ANOTHER BAD DEAL!

Officer M

And I posted the Mariotti story last night  and it been discussed  quite a bit earlier today.

Reading

It will not be a no-hitter--no way no how :)

good grief--even Andy's field is breaking down--2nd throwing error of the game.

Another bad call against the Bucs and JR's ass glued to the bench

There once was a guy with no name

seems he needs a gang for his fame

too bad the stories lose you

Oh me oh my oh me oh pew

please keep me out of your stinking game

Hanrahan is now pitching for the Bucs.

1-0 count to Drew.  Catches the inside corner, 1-1.  Fly ball to LF>..Milledge makes the catch.  1 away.

Roberts takes strike 1.  Swings and misses, 0-2.  In the dirt, 1-2.  Swings and misses, strike 3.  2 away.

Upton takes ball 1.  Misses inside, 2-0.  Fouled away, 2-1.  Swings and misses, 2-2 count.  Crap...Andy's not having a good night...slow roller toward 3rd...he charges, bare-hands and tosses it into the 1B dugout -- looks like it slipped out of his hand.  Runner takes 2nd.

Reynolds singles to RF...they wave Upton arounnd to score, and the throw is late.  

Parra takes ball 1.  Runner goes, the throw wide to the 1B side...Cedeno takes the throw and tags Reynolds leg as he slides by but the Ump calls him safe.  Cedeno argues it -- and the replay shows he made the tag before the runner touched the base.  1-1 count to Parra.  Swings and misses, 1-2.  Misses, 2-2 count.  Swings and misses, strike 3.

They add another, score is 6-0 D-Backs.

Hoss, I quite enjoy your humor. The days you are not around tend to be a bit dull.

At least tonight it beats the ballgame :)