More on Wilson/Sanchez news

DK, how about a conspiracy theory that it puts the onus on the players, as in if they decline the deal the Pirates won't be the bad guys when/if they are traded?

Well, I for one am on the side that supports the signings. Rebuilding doesn't mean getting rid of EVERY player that's established. That's just salary dumping. In order to get rid of a player, you have to 1) conclude there is nothing left in the player, their skills are washed up; or 2) get a positive return in any trade.

Additionally, the Pirates have NO ONE that can step in at either position. Does anyone REALLY want Vazquez, Cruz, and/or Bixler filling those holes for the next year+?

I don't believe either is washed up, though I also don't think the Pirates will get what they feel is an adequate return for either of those guys. So what's the harm in keeping a solid middle infield intact for the next few years, giving some of the promising younger (A and AA) players in the system a chance to develop.

If the cost is reasonable, and it doesn't mean a gaping hole up the middle of the infield, sign them.

DK.......

I asked this question on the previous thread, do you know who does the negotiating for the PBC in these types of contract talks.

Carryover from previous thread....

To Q and anyone else who believes the mean spirited rumor that Nuttinghostage does not have a heart.

Q,

I admit my eyes got a little watery too.

Especially when Stan and Guy hugged at the end and during Stan's final editorial comments.

Stan is a class act and I'm am glad we were able to enjoy him and his show for as long as we did.

As much as I question this front office, and admit the though crossed my mind the overture was not sincere and just a PR move......I really doubt that theory.

While I disagree with many things this FO does, one thing I will say is that they are confident in themselves. Perhaps even arrogant.

I don't see them concerning themselves right now with public relations. Or at least allowing public relations to stand in the way of what they think they need to do.

I just don't think they would waste their time on such a thing.

Just a little OT. If Jack would re-sign and finish as a Pirate, would he be the first Pirates since Willie Stargell that played more than 5 years to play his entire Major League career in a Pirates uniform?

DK,

Can you please ask Adam LaRoche to please always wear sleeves. That picture of yours was a little embarassing.

Adam's "gun show" was a little underwhelming to say the least.

Ron Gant he is not.

Thank you.

I'm with you Kragbax, and not just because we have similiar avatars.

In addition to the points that you made, I think the that team benefits from the leadership / good citizen intangibles that both players bring to the table.

I truly believe that the pitchers on this team are under enough pressure, the least you can do for them (since you're not giving them any lumber) is provide a solid defensive unit  behind them.

I'm going to the game tonight to see Maholm v. Lincecum.  

Thanks for keeping us informed. It's much appreciated.

It seems like the right move to me since there isn't anyone else who is good to replace them from inside the organization and other teams aren't willing to trade good prospects.

Wilson and Sanchez must REALLY want to play together if they are willing to stay with an organization that has not been successful in almost 2 decades. That is obviously a very strong friendship they've got.

DK - how many 10 and 5 guys have there been in the recent history of the Pirates?  How many are there currently in the majors and how many have there been recently in the majors?  I imagine the number being low.  I for one, cannot blame you for not mentioning this in the article...

Keep up the great work.

Thanks DK, I would have thought Frank would have been in there somewhere.

As much as I would like for both Wilson and Sanchez hang around another 3 years, I think it would be silly to think that'll happen. My worry is a "McLouth" will be pulled over our eyes here. For Sanchez in particular, we'd get a lot more in return if he's traded with 2+ years left in a contract, than the current contractual situation.

For heaven's sake, if we sign them, can we at least keep them through untill the end of 2010? If one or both is traded next year, that would be the end of the players' trust in management... never mind the fans (the few thousand that are left)

Anything on SS Reid Brignac.  He is stonewalled with TB.  Brignac is the only AAA SS prospect that I have searched and followed, that is major league ready. I just don't see a

fit though with TB.

Freddy is our only chip with add on luggage Snell in toe and I dont see us trading a 2B for a 2B.  Just doesnt happen.

I think it is wrong to assume that if the Pirates don't sign Freddie and Jack to contract extensions that the wheels are going to fall off in the middle infield. True they don't have a combo in the system ready to take their spots but that does not mean they can't get one.

This team has very few players left on the Major league team that are Pirate players from the system, getting 2 more from outside the system would not be a surprise.

The starting lineup has 2 developed position players from the system to date.

"No idea on 10-and-5 guys. Maybe there is a list somewhere. Chipper Jones comes to mind. Derek Jeter. Todd Helton. Anyone?

As usual, that kind of trivia got me curious so I'm trying to do some research, especially on Pirates.

I remember that at some point in the 90's, there were something like 8 players that had 10 or more with one team and were still active.  I'd imagine that number is down right now?

@Dejan Kovacevic @C'Mon MCLOUTH! I think Ken Griffey Jr. was a 10-5 with the Reds recently.

Regardless of how this shakes out, I think it demonstrates the FO is willing to explore all options if the preferred options doesn't work out.  And, even if contracts were to be signed with no no-trade clause, and then a "McLouth were pulled" as @Steph_FanInMontreal, said, then so be it. My guess would be that it would only happen because the return finally reached the value they had in mind.

Mariano... Vlad... Berkman as of recently.  Not many but the ones that are there, would make Jack in great company.

@ Steph regarding your following quote:

As much as I would like for both Wilson and Sanchez hang around another 3 years, I think it would be silly to think that'll happen. My worry is a "McLouth" will be pulled over our eyes here. For Sanchez in particular, we'd get a lot more in return if he's traded with 2+ years left in a contract, than the current contractual situation.

---If the FO's intention is ultimately to trade Sanchez no matter what, how can maximizing our return by signing him to an extension first a bad thing?

And for conspiracy theorists who feel that the FO has no real intention to sign the two players, and it is just a PR move, I have a quick question.

Why would the FO "leak" that they are offering extensions to two of the most popular Pirates if they have no intention to sign them, when all that will do is make it even worse when the extensions don't happen?

If anything, I feel that the fact that it has become public knowledge is more of a sure sign that the FO is sincere in wanting to extend them both, whether it happens or not.

Does it really matter?  We won't be winning with them or without them.  Do they really think Sanchez and Wilson are just going to get better as they get older and slower?  By the time we field a competitive team, they will be even worse.  They should trade them while people still think they are decent prospects now.

For everybody that says we have nothing behind Wilson and Sanchez to take their places, I'm sure we can find replacements that can continue 100-loss pace.  Anything wrong with seeing what Bixler, Cruz and Ford can do that Wilson and Sanchez haven't been able to do, which is win.  Who knows.

Big Papi and Wakefield are probably 10-5, Dye for the Sox, Posada.

Those are a few more that I came up with top of my head. I bet Thome is getting there.

@Dejan Kovacevic: Posada and Rivera for the Yanks I believe fit that category. As do the ones you pointed out originally. Vlad as well? Not sure if some of them maybe came up with another club early, but I can't remember them with anyone else.

@Goodtymes

My point is three-fold;

1) Signing them would have nothing to do with keeping them "over the long-term"... blablabla (as of course they would say in the press conference), but rather as leverage for trade bait.

2) What message would that give to the current players? Sign a long-tem contract, and you've just signed your PBC death sentence.

3) We'll likely be getting good (not great) prospects or average MLB players in return. I'll take Sanchez and Wilson over any (reasonable) player return, anyday.

Bagwell and Biggio are recent ones who fit the 10-5-1 team bill recently as well.

i believe derek lee fits the 10-5 category as well

Thanks DK, I missed that.  That would make sense as I felt as you mentioned above, that I'm sure everyone involved would rather this stay behind closed doors for any number of reasons.

Signing Wilson and Sanchez makes a lot of sense...strength up the middle, makes pitch to contact pitchers better and both guys are decent hitters.... The teams offensive problem are at other positions

As a matter of fact, new management moves have all made sense..trading RH hitting OF (Bay, Nady) for pitching and prospects . RH hitting OF are the easiest talent to acquire.  The key to dealing a solid McClouth is what they get back. The free agent signings have been good.   Some of the on field movesare questionanle (Capps was left in far too long)

Wow

The gray men are invading--hard to keep them apart--please, some click on my avatar for instructions on how to get an avatar so it makes it easier to follow the posts

I compiled a long list of 10-5 guys...and the server decided I was not worthy.  From memory...

Dye, Konerko, Pierzynski, Joe Nathan, David Ortiz, Wakefield, Posada, ARod, Jeter, Rivera, JRollins, Derrek Lee, Brian Giles, Vlad Guerrero, Ichiro, Adrian Beltre after this year, Chipper, Pujols and Ichiro soon, Helton.  Can't recall more at the moment. There are a bunch though. Decent teams have at least one or two.

I agree with Steph on his first point. I believe they are trying to sign both to cheaper, longer term contracts so they will be more attractive to other teams in a trade. the trade might not be by July 31st but I would bet they would both be traded before spring training 2010.

All you gotta do is look at the Mclouth trade for a similar situation, his contract was only like 3 months old..

Chris Carpenter, Vernon Wells as well. Beltran after this year. Okay, I'll stop.

DK,

Would you suggest the Front Office is "pushing" for these extensions?

Or that the extensions are "imminent"?

;-)

Here is list of the "lifers":

espn.go.com/.../lifers

www.twincities.com/ci_12859189

Now as many as 10 teams are in the Sano sweepstakes

My guess is we are out of the Sano running so the front office does not need to salary dump to cover the signing bonus of Sano.

We Don't Get Fooled Again...Roger Daltrey was singing about the current GM I'm sure. Why should you believe this man? He is playing Fantasy Baseball while he destroys this club. Nady, Bay, Nate, Nyjer....please don't be deceived. If he wakes up Sunday and the Red Sox offer him 3 AAA prospects, he will deal Wilson. Of course, none of those 3 will be named Bucholz or Bowden. If the Giants offer their 8th and 9th best prospects for Sanchez, Freddy will be gone.Bad enough Bay is traded for vastly inferior talent, he dumps a cornerstone CF who could be playing RF or LF. Then sends a very speedy LF for someone who resembles Chad Hermanson than NYJER MORGAN. Why do you think that wonderfully talented Milledge hasn't panned out despite his obvious potential? People aren't laughing at the Pirates GM's when Bonifay and Littlefield were in charge. THey know NH is a poor excuse, too. THey are circling like vultures do. THe only Sanchez on the Pirates roster in 2010 may be named Tony, not Freddy. It's a ploy and I think most Pirate fans are too smart for this. NH's track record has to make one believe Jack and Freddy will be traded.....soon.

Been away from posting, but couldn't resist on this topic....I like the idea of the FO trying to sign the Brothers DP.  If Neal can get a 3 year deal out of both of them for a combined $10M per year, he'd be a fool to pass it up and so would Freddie and Jack.  These guys would get to play together, but more importantly BE together.  It's obvious they and their families love each other.  Money isn't everything...And, in a down market, Jack will be lucky to get 4M per year and Freddy will be lucky to get 6M for multiple years.  Their highest value is together and with the Pirates.  And at the end of their deals in 2012 we should have suitable replacements or pick up an option that will invariably be included in the deals.

This makes great sense for everyone involved....

Sorry DK. Or 'Slim" should I say?

I could not resist.....

I love some of the names people throw around in regards to Wilson.  the Red Sox have been saying they don't want to trade Bucholz or Bowden for Roy Halladay, but that's who we should get for Jack Wilson.

I have seen the name Brignac about 100 times, who by the way I think would look great in a Pirates uniform, but the Rays have "zero" interest in trading him according to anything I have seen coming out of Tampa Bay.  Brignac will be in Tampa next season as he is being "blocked" by Iwamura (okay, but not great), Bartlett (very good SS), and a Zobrist playing out of his mind, who will move back to the OF.

Believe me, if the Red Sox dangled Bowden or Buchholz, or Tampa offered Brignac straight up for any of our players, I am sure Neal would have been all over it.

New Pirates Top 10, post draft post Cutch call up??? Any thoughts? Here's mine:

1. Pedro Alvarez... gotta vote for Pedro

2. Jose Tabata - seems to finally be getting over the wife being a con artist thing and recovering nicely

3. Gorykys Hernandez - Appears to be a streaky hitter. He'll go 3-5 then 0 fer. That being said he looks to be shaping up to be an ideal no 2 hitter to follow Cutch in the order in a year or so.

4. Brad Lincoln - continuing to showcase that he has rebounded from the arm surgery. We should see him next year

5. Robbie Grossman - This guy got on base over a month straight. AND HE IS 19!!! stud in the making

6. Sterling Marte - The feature of Dejan's article is torching single A pitching. He is going to be a beast

7. Tony Sanchez - I am enjoying eating Crow on ripping this pick more than anything. He seems to be getting better. Can't wait to see what he does against higher levels of competition

8. Gift Ngeope - Same as Sanchez. I remember laughing when I read that we signed a South African. But Ngeope is torching the gulf league and has a sweet name.

9. Rudy Owens - I really don't know enough about this guy. I don't know what kind of pitches are in his arsenal, nor do I know how hard he throws them. What I do know is that this guy appears to be a winner.

10. Jorge Bishop VSL Bucs - check him out. 8 bombs, leading the team in total bases. Also with all due respect to Hugo Chavez, this VSL bucco squad appears to OWN the league, and Bishop appears to be their leader.

Honorable Mentions:

Miguelangel Trinidad VSL Buccos- How come no one is asking about a 21 yr old with an OPS above 1K? Too Old I suppose?

David Pino VSL Buccos - 18 yrs old OPS of .930. only 4 bombs. Here's hoping he comes to Bradenton soon.

Roberto Espinoza VSL Buccos - 17 yrs old WHIP under 1, looks to be a stud.

Jonathan Barrios VSL Buccos - 18 yr old columbian SS. hitting over 300, stuck behind Jorge Bishop

Brian Friday

Fraylin Campos - DSL Buccos - WHIP under 1 and 54 Ks in 40 innings for the 19 yr old who is starting for the first time this year

Eric Avila - DSL Buccos - 20  yr old 3rd baseman is hitting a mind boggling 340 and has 5 bombs to lead the team. appears to suck defensively (16 errors)

Saying that we've lost 100+ games with em, we can lose 100+ without them is silly. Considering who's been up to play in their absence's, we'd likely be losing 120+ without them! Bixler?! Are you serious?! lol

You can't blame the SS and 2B over the past couple years on the mounting loss's. Try 1) Pitching 2) lack of power bats.

Pitching is coming along, we need some power bats.

@ Donny Roy: "My guess is we are out of the Sano running so the front office does not need to salary dump to cover the signing bonus of Sano."

For those of you looking for a conspiracy theory...that's as good as any i've read today.  I see the logic in it but i don't think we're out of sano so not buying into it.  Granted, maybe i just dont want to 'cause i'm still awishin' and ahopin' for sano.

Ok, back out for the afternoon.

DK do you see any possibily that the pirates sign these two (at a lower rate than other teams would be able to) only to better their trade value. or is there something against this? just a though that crossed my mind reading it.

NuHos -

From the previous thread, about the offer to Wilson/Sanchez:

>>The doubt is there, but I am going to try to be positive and go with the idea it is a sincere offer.<<

PoH must be so proud of you right now.

All those novenas she made to St. Jude (the patron saind of lost causes) on your behalf finally paid dividends.

I even heard a rumor she and the family were planning their 2009 summer vacation trip to Lourdes to pray for your conversion.

:-D

Q & NuHos -

Thanks for mentioning Sportsbeat with Stan and Guy. For many years, my late mom - not a sports fan - watched that show religiously, taped it and sent me the tapes here in Richmond. For a few minutes a day I felt like I was back home.

Someone said that one of the flaws of the show that led to its cancellation was it was like a local radio call in show, just on TV. So what? It was classic Pittsburgh. I loved it. Have not seen it in years but I will never forget it. Stan is an institution and never let his Cleveland roots get in the way of being a Yinzer.

Manny was a 10-5 guy with the Red Sox, so he actually had to OK the trade to LA.

I'd kind of be in favor of a creative deal with Jack and Freddy.  Sort of like the Wakefield contract with a mutual, renewable option every year.  As long as the Pirates have no viable internal replacements, keep renewing Jack and Freddy at a reasonable price.  Maybe even add incentives for things  like All-Star, Gold Glove, etc.  

Would seem to serve all parties.  Jack and Freddy remain teammates.  The Pirates get good players at a decent rate, and pay them more in the years they perform really well.

NuHos -

>>Can you please ask Adam LaRoche to please always wear sleeves. That picture of yours was a little embarassing.

Adam's "gun show" was a little underwhelming to say the least.<<

Have you not heard about the 2nd Ammendment: The Right to Bare Arms?  [groan]

I am a little surprised nobody has mentioned Bryce Harper on these posts. Just imagine a world with Sano and Harper coming up together, same age, same Pirate uniform, same 2016 World Series trophy. Ok wake up from that dream now, dump a Gatorade jug of coffee on yourself and realize it is the Pirates.  Looks like Boras has already got his gready slimey mits on Harper, the Nationals will be in last place come October and take him next June, and we will surely be outbid for Sano.

IMO, still too early to tell on this (as JAL noted -we do not know what the deals are). But my early leanings are against as:

1. using the "sell high, buy low" analogy, this is probably the worst time to renogiate as both players values are at or near their peak.

2. the idea that we need JW and FS because there is no one close in the minors negates the value of FA's who are at low value due to the overal economics of today. For example, last year you could pick up relatively close equivalents for JW and FS in SS (Adam Everett at $1M/yr) and 2B (Orlando Hudson at 3.4M/yr), for about half of what you are paying now. Next year's FA costs will probably be similar (and both Everett and Hudson are FA's again next year, along with some other similar options).

but still too early to call........

G-Man & NuHo:

Re: SportsBeat

It will be one of those things that I will appreciate more now that it is no longer here.  I'm not in range to listen to local radio to get the pulse of the fans, so I watched SportsBeat when I got home from work prior to a Pirate, Penguin, or Monday after a Steeler game.  

G-man,

"bare arms"

OK, now that was funny. I don't care who you are.

;-)

Please join me in a hearty, "STAN, GUY.....LOVE THE SHOW!"  in tribute to our friend Stand Savaran.

G-man,

My cousin gets his 5 year old little boy who is as skinny as a rail to come up to adults at family picnics, roll back his sleeves on his skinny little arms, attempt to make a muscle, and say..."Do you want a ticket to the gun show buster"?

It is hilarious.

Other 10/5 guys...

-Jamie Moyer (I think after this year)

-Brian Giles

-Alex Rodriguez

-Jim Thome?

-Everyone on JAL's "lifers" link

Dejan, Is this perhaps a way to stir up better offers for Freddie and/or Jack? "Uh-oh. They're serious about holding on to Sanchez. Sweeten the offer."

Let's hope not. Let's hope they keep 'em both.

@JAL, please be nice to people with gray avatars.  Some of us can't help it.  This is my real picture.

@juan pizarro

I don't think they are at peak, or, their peak isn't what we thought it was. I would think the shopping of them around has lowered their value. High value to us doesn't mean high value to the market. Maybe seeing that they couldn't be traded has made Jack and Freddie reevaluate their own worth on the open market, creating more value for us.

Your second point also points to not trading them if other GMs feel they can wait for that market to open up meaning we can't get squat for them.

Okay, I'm often the first one to say/believe the FO is being phony or disingenuous. But what do they have to lose by making a sincere offer? This is one of the most rational baseball moves they have made in their short tenure. It has the potential to be a win-win for all sides. Even if they give no-trade clauses, it buys time for them to develop or trade for replacements and at a manageable price.

I vote "Aye!"

Donny

I am a little surprised nobody has mentioned Bryce Harper on these posts. Just imagine a world with Sano and Harper coming up together, same age, same Pirate uniform, same 2016 World Series trophy. Ok wake up from that dream now, dump a Gatorade jug of coffee on yourself and realize it is the Pirates.  Looks like Boras has already got his gready slimey mits on Harper, the Nationals will be in last place come October and take him next June, and we will surely be outbid for Sano.

_____________________________

We have mentioned him many times on this blog site, he is not within the realm of possibility for the the Bucs.

I think signing Jack and Freddie to extensions is a brilliant idea.  Raise their trade value by reducing salary and adding years, keep them around while you shop for / develop  replacements, and give more time to the FO to find the trade they want rather than something they have to live with.  They did the exact same thing with Nate.  The real question is can you get more out of a trade than what you would get for compensatory picks?

There won't be a no trade clause in either extension, that much i am sure about.  And be sure that if Jack does sign he will be gone by next year.  Neil and co. will need to get rid of him before he is 10-5.  I would be shocked that even if both Jack and Freddie sign an extension that either will be playing for the PBC at the end of next season.  I will be shocked if they sign the extension as well.

@DK--Thank you for the effort to keep us informed.

I like the idea because there is nothing behind these two solid players right now. This would be well worth the money to keep a solid inner part of the diamond intact. And they don't hit homers regularly but their defense prevents runs (ask any of our pitchers).

Keep them for 2-3 years and then maybe they will accept a bench/utility role after their "prime." Maybe the FO can even envision them as managers/coaches one day in the system.

Here's hoping the Nationals and Strasburg can't come to terms!

NuHos -

>>Please join me in a hearty, "STAN, GUY.....LOVE THE SHOW!"  in tribute to our friend Stand Savaran.<<

My pleasure: "This is G-Man calling. Stan, Guy, Love the show."

A person could count on hearing that phrase on Sportsbeat almost as much as running across "salary dump" here in the asylum.  ;-)

Not sure what people see as PR here--If it the offer then it bad PR--You do not publicize something you may fail at unless you looking for media coverage and national attention--such as trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.  Not info info here to do a pR blitz on.  

If an actual signing is being seen as PR that would make more sense but you want that type of PR if you also see it as benefit to the team.

JBurns

I thought I was nice--I said please and explained the importance of avatars to following the posts.  Saw that as gentle encouragement

If we finish in last place Bryce Harper would be well within the realm... it will truely test the FO's willingness to open up their pocket books and contend. The bucs finishing in last place could potentially make or break fan's opinion of this franchise. I would think they would almost be forced to take him and again deal with Boras or lose almost every fan that every year thinks things will change with this team. MAYBE JUST MAYBE THAT IS WHY WE ARE ALL OF THE SUDDEN KEEPING SANCHEZ/ WILSON to finish ahead of the National and avoid having to take Harper. Any thoughts??

DK: Is your impression that both sides feel years are more important than money?

Graham: I think it is a little early to put Marte, Ngeope and Bishop in the top 10.  I would add Chase D'Arnaud, Jeff Locke, and Bryan Morris instead. And I would personally lower GHernandez quite a bit, I'm not a fan. If Marte can do what he's doing for the rest of the season, I'll give him consideration. If we sign Sano, then he gets at least some consideration. And if Morris' second half is as bad as his first, then he's out. Brian Leach and Michael Colla are sleepers, though I think both are destined for the bullpen. And keep one eye on Calvin Anderson, a long-shot with tremendous upside.

Just a thought to ponder. The Pirates have had 16 consecutive losing seasons, lots of disastrous personnel moves, and how many consecutive last place finishes? And yet there's never a dull moment, never more than two consecutive days without some kind of news or drama that gets the passionate fans stirred up.

That's part of why I'm a Pirate fan forever, Bob Nutting notwithstanding.

I am one that has sipped MANAGEMENT'S kool aid and this will make me take another drink, First off a we must realize that MCLOUTH, BAY, NADY, were all outfielders, once you start messing with the best double play combo in the game , then you see the REAL RAMIFICATIONS of the tearing this thing down....I love the move, communication by management...We have all read numerous times about Freddy and Jack's desires to stay in the burgh and I think its on them, They are set financially and with the economy the way it is now , whats really out there...I love how our team is shaping up and with the addition of G JONES , I think Management has said to themselves, hey this aint to shabby, look down on the farm and you see POTENTIAL to say the least, I hope this comes true and Freddy and Jack remain cornerstones of our team...Also I can remember BIXLER at short and you talk about NIGHTMARE OF ELM ST , that was worse...I for one love the possible communication and attempt on Mangaement to see if FREDDY AND JACK truly want to stay , because it shouldnt be about the money...

LETS GO BUCS YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

jBurns

Also, yours is not the default one that makes everyone look the same--did like your uniforms better     ;)

Some have talked about - maybe in the earlier thread - Freddy and Jack being able dictate where they go and be able to go to winning team(s) if the become FAs. This is only true to a point. They can only go to teams that want them and are willing to make them offers.

Adam Dunn ended up going to the worst team in baseball. I don't recall what other offers he may have had, but it does make me wonder why he chose the Nationals.

Donny

If we finish in last place Bryce Harper would be well within the realm..

_________________________________

We won't finish in last place and Harper won't sign with the Nats. They are talking about a lot of ways of him entering and not entering the draft, everything from GED, to the Dominican to Japan.

He wants to play for the Yankees.

Harper IMO will change the entire landscape of the draft before he and Boras are done.

To stray from the main topic, if I may, if this rain keeps up and tonight gets postponed, well I'd rather not think about the result. If we have to deal with 5 days in a row without baseball...

Is it a coincidence that Neal talks about extensions with Jack and Freddy with SF in town?

   NEAL WILL MAKE ANOTHER BAD DEAL!

DK's latest update mentioned that money wouldnt be a factor but more so the length of the contract.....would it really be that difficult to extend maybe one more year?  would that be a deal breaker on either side?

Wilson sanchez news<

what do you say we call him the gift wrap.  Every smooth ground ball he picks up is gift wrapped for bla bla bla

There's one to short stop, oh wait it's gift wrapped.

Never seen him play but I do like the sound of a gift wrap.

JAL - sorry that was my weak attempt at humor... *sigh*  

I think I'll go back to lurking for the afternoon... :)

papacoach -

>>If we have to deal with 5 days in a row without baseball...<<

I wish you had not said that. Someone (PAMT?) is bound to counter with something like there have been 16+ years without baseball. Up to now, it has been of pleasant tone here all day. :-)

Speaking of rain in Pittsburgh, it has been cloudy all day here in Richmond and I keep hearing thunder in the distance.

"Maybe the more intriguing -- and limiting -- question is how many 10-and-5 guys have spent their whole careers with one team?"

Actually Dejan, my reading comprehension isn't so good looking today.  That's what I was thinking we were after.

@ Leadoff

The GED is to make him eligable for next June's draft. He has already optained the and is attending Junior College (College of Southern Nevada) and therfore eligable for the draft. He does dream of wearing the pinstripes, but for now he goes to the lowest finisher. A team with Wilson and Freddy gone becomes a last place contender. Think about Bixler at short and a platoon of bums at second. Nutting is scared of the ramifications of a last place finish. period!

@papacoach

I am in CA and I had no idea the weather is bad in PA, You just ruined my day , is it bad??? 5 days in a row would just be a HEARTBREAKER...

@papacoach...I was thinking along the same lines.  What's up with the rain?  It was hot yesterday and gorgeous earlier in the week, but the first day the team is back in town, it rains?  

I was hoping to not have to pack my rain poncho tonight, but....

It's not raining here in the Burgh.  Grey skies and occasional drizzle, but nothing to prevent baseball from being played yet.

PG hour to hour report looks encouraging.  Some rain called for during game time, but no lightning and on an hour-to-hour basis.

21s

Posted a link to those who are currently 10-5 with one team  above

Based on Cot's Baseball Contracts information and looking at a calendar...Jack will earn his 10 and 5 pin somewhere around the end of April in 2011. He had 7 years and 147 days going into this season. By the end of next season...he would have 9 years and 147 days...leaving him 25 days short of 10 years.

JBurns

Sorry, if missed it--I did see it as lighthearted :)

It is overcast here and I have tickets to the Nats game tonight.  We shall see what transpires.

I hope the rain moves north of me here in Harrisburg area.  Our over-30 league has a HR Derby and charity benefit game on Harrisburg Senators field tomorrow.  So cool to actually play on that field and take a few shots at the fences.  

Some more JACK AND FREDDY

sports.espn.go.com/.../story

On the 10-5 situation of Wilson....

According to Cot's contracts, Wilson will only have 8 years service time at the end of this year. He falls short of 9 by 25 days. So he won't be a 10-5 guy for his next 2 seasons.

@leadoff -

The prospect of Boras trying to circumvent the draft system is one reason the owners and players are going to discuss how to make the international market conform more to the draft model than what we've got now.

I would look for that to be addressed in the next CBA.

I see Thunder just beat me to the Cot's info on Jack...

This 10-5 talk is making me sad.  Tekulve was traded to AVOID him becoming that.

Could've used him in 1990.

Just enough rain  to make it a damp night at the park though.  (We did get enough here in Bellevue to make our streets pretty wet)

Donny Roy wrote:  If we finish in last place Bryce Harper would be well within the realm... it will truely test the FO's willingness to open up their pocket books and contend. The bucs finishing in last place could potentially make or break fan's opinion of this franchise. I would think they would almost be forced to take him and again deal with Boras or lose almost every fan that every year thinks things will change with this team. MAYBE JUST MAYBE THAT IS WHY WE ARE ALL OF THE SUDDEN KEEPING SANCHEZ/ WILSON to finish ahead of the National and avoid having to take Harper. Any thoughts??

_________________________________________________

Wow.  I'm pretty tolerant of the differing views regarding the FO that show up here, but jeez...  this takes the cake as the worst conspiracy theory I've ever heard.  So, if I get this straight the FO straegy is to:  (1) sign guys they don't want; (2) pay them more than they want to pay them; (3) do this so that they can be one game better than the worst team in MLB at the end of the season; (4) pray that no other bad team has a second-half turnaround; (5) pray that nobody on the PBC gets injured so that the record stays good enough; and (6) do all of this so you can avoid having to deal with a kid who's more likely to hold out (or go to college, or whatever) than he is to sign with anybody other than the Yankees.  Not a single part of that plan makes any sense.

You asked, "any thoughts?"  Well, yes, yes I do have some thoughts:  You're ascribing a level of evil and sophistication to the PBC FO that only exists in cartoon supervillians.  Not to mention that this "strategy" of yours has about a snowball's chance in heck of actually being needed and then even less chance of actually working.  Those are my thoughts, sir.

Wow. I thought I was cynical when it came to the Pirate front office. Smizik really seems to think the entire issue was contrived to improve leverage in negotiating with the players and demonstrate to the fans an effort.

Is this front office really that coniving?

Maybe, just maybe I have been too kind in my assessment of this front office??

I think all of you owe me an apology.

;-)

Do people realize that the Nationals are on pace to win 48 games?  48.

The Bucs have 40 wins already.  Any talk about catching the Nats is beyond absurd.

Have the Bucs really reached THIS level of distrust for the front office that the scenario that Donny Roy posted was actually thought of?

UPDATE 12:58 p.m.: Bob Smizik weighs in on the matter.

UPDATE 2: 51 p.m.: No one cares what Smizik thinks.

FSF

Right

It would a monumental collapse by the Pirates plus  the Nats playing much worse for the Pirates to finish with a worse record.

" Smizik really seems to think the entire issue was contrived to improve leverage in negotiating with the players and demonstrate to the fans an effort."

No he doesn't.  Not even close.

Imagine Bixler as an everyday shortstop. We would basically have 2 pitchers batting 8 and 9. He would lead the league in strikeouts and we would contend with the NATS for the worst record. Bixler is no WIlson in the field either.

Hostage

Would that be a standing apology or a kneeling apology :)

Daryl,

Glad to see you're interested in partaking of the avatar. Tastes good, doesn't it?

ants marching============================================

I'm hoping Sanchez & Wilson both sign as there's no real replacement but hopefully you can answer another question for me as I can't log onto the chat @ work and I haven't seen a Q & A for a while.

Is there any concern that there are 11 less players signed as of right now from the 2009 draft compared to the same time last year?

I will get an avatar if we sign Sano... aka NEVER

Ants singing and dancing to a new thread

www.youtube.com/watch

Wilson and Sanchez are gone if they have an ounce of brains or want to win in 2010 or 2011. Only way they would stay is if their families are cemented in pittsburgh and their wifes are saying NO WE WILL NOT LEAVE. They could take a pay cut and be more appreciated elsewhere and get into the playoffs or better. I hate to say it, but as your financial advisor and life coach. Jack and Freddie,GET THE HECK OUTTA TOWN on the first bus you can this summer! Do not look back!

I am going to deeply miss you guys. I have been screaming to keep you, pay you properly and foremost get a good supporting staff to help the Pirates achieve playoff status! Alas on deaf ears!

Go Pirates vs Giants tonight.

David