PBC Blog

Authors

Post-Gazette beat writers Dejan Kovacevic and Chuck Finder blog about the Pittsburgh Baseball Club.

Join the Pirates forum for more conversation.

Register to comment
Guide to commenting

Syndication

Morning links: Two-game sample size

By Dejan Kovacevic | 12:40 a.m. Saturday

MIAMI -- The modern thinking among baseball's youngest and brightest is that small sample sizes are perilous. It is not revolutionary, obviously, but the wealth of statistical knowledge available these days strengthens the case all the more.

Not so for those on the field. Not nearly as much, anyway.

When they like what they see, they want to see more of it. Until they do not like it, then do not want to see any more of it.

And so it is, in the positive sense, right now with John Russell and Garrett Jones. As you can read below in the Notebook, he spoke with such strong tones about Jones that it would be easy to forget that Jones had played two games to that point, going 0 for 4 in one and looking like a terror the next by nearly hitting for the cycle and thumping the ball all over the diamond. At one point, Russell paused and said, "I don't want to put too much pressure on him."

Well, there it is.

Jones has been a decent, though not spectacular hitter in the minors, and he legitimately was blocked in Minnesota. It will be interesting to see how he pans out. At the same time, whether it was his performance Thursday or something the coaching staff saw and liked in his technique or even something statistical, it would seem there is little question that the day-to-day world of managers vs. the long-term views of any front office coexist only in parallel dimensions.

Linkage to the general coverage ...

> Game story: Pirates 7, Marlins 4. Charlie Morton has some pretty dynamic stuff, and this, really, was the first time he put it all together. Check what Bob Walk and Jack Wilson have to say. 

> Audio: Morton, on the subject of the night.

> Notebook: The story behind Paul Maholm's minor ailments. Also here are updates on Freddy Sanchez and Ryan Doumit.

> Opinion: Bob Smizik calls Sanchez an easy choice for All-Star.

And from other realms ...

> Video highlights: Clips from last night's game on MLB.com. One is a 44-second package of Morton pitches.

> The opponent: The Marlins, as covered by the Palm Beach Post.

> The Royals, as expected, signed a top Nicaraguan prospect whom the Pirates had followed and developed for two years. Orlando Estevez, a good man who frequents McKechnie Field in the spring, is Kansas City's Latin supervisor and the scout credited with the signing.

> The Washington Observer-Reporter dissects Wilson's comments this week.

> The Pirates and Rays do joint charity work in Bradenton.


Posted Jul 04 2009, 12:40 AM by Dejan Kovacevic

Comments

emoneypitt wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:52 AM

I didn't get to see the game last night (and won't get to see today's game because of FOX's stupid rules) but I watched the Charlie Morton highlights.

WOW! This kid got some stuff!

bucsfancents80 wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:52 AM

Happy 4th!

Anyone watching the Twins/Tigers game that is currently in the bottom of the 15th?  Both teams scored a run in the 14th and it is still going.  16th now.Land Shark stadium will even be able to watch this game.  Smart move with a 605pm Saturday game Marlins!  You deserve to be in last place in attendance.

Bizrow wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:53 AM

IMO, you throw Jones and Moss out therewith MCCutch, lets see wgat happensm IMO seved days

Moss will surprise us, its in the bank, make me offers and Garret needs to get settled and he'le di fine, typing bites

irate fan wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:55 AM
bucsfancents80 wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:57 AM

some of my comments got lost in that last thread I think.  anyway what I was saying about no tv coverage in pittsburgh or Marlins territory means no National TV on extra innings, mlb.tv, or regional network coverage of this game on a holiday that falls on a Saturday.  all because the Marlins thought it would be smart to start a Saturday game at 605pm.  hope the 10,000 people in the ballpark enjoy the game because the rest of the world won't see it.

bucsfancents80 wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:59 AM

tigers up 9-8 in the 16th, we'll see if that holds up this time.

bucsfancents80 wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:01 AM

I dont even understand why this game is listed as an mlb.tv game when it is blacked out?  I guess so highlights can be shown on mlb network and wherever else.  those highlights beat the old jumbotron highlights back in the day when neither team's tv stations were airing a game.  so if anyone in the world does get the game let us know.

darylethepiratefan wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:17 AM

I tell u what......put all the trades over the last 2years in one bucket,u will find advantage pirate management.,.moss,Morton,Ross,young,Andy,etc...,

Baywatch wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:26 AM

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this or not, but Jones also gets down the baseline and around the bases pretty nicely for a bigger man! It's refreshing to see a big guy run like that.

Jr.OrtizTheSecond wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:42 AM

@Daryle- I agree wholeheartedly that these trades are showing an advantage towards the Pirates now, and I think if Moss and Andy could find the bleachers more often it would be overwhelming.  And that is before we see Morris, Tabata and Gorkys.  My question though is what happens if Jones is for real, and Milledge shows he is the real deal?  Who becomes the odd man out?  Nice problem to have though.

darylethepiratefan wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:32 AM

@Jr Ortiz The Second

Stevie Wonder can see this team getting better and stacked ...I hope we keep wearing the RED CAPS, Also that is 5 n a row on FLA, I think we could SHOCK THE WORLD , IF we sweep....Are lineup with DOUMIT AND MILLEGE , Who will sit, Great ? from whomever asked it ....

Jr.OrtizTheSecond wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:43 AM

Forgot about Doumit suprisingly.  His power and ability to hit cleanup would be a tremendous lift to the whole lineup.  If we had a 3,4,5,6 of Milledge, Doumit, Jones, and either LaRoche I could definately deal with that.  Lot of depth now behind these guys also.

emoneypitt wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 4:13 AM

Something to think about fellow Bucco lovers:

If the Pirates don't fall apart this month and say, are only 4-5 games under .500 at the end of the month........ 36 of the final 58 games are at home where the team has played well this season. Of course, if some key players are sold off, it dims the chances greatly but don't give up on breaking the curse this year just yet.

Jr.OrtizTheSecond wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 4:21 AM

The key to keeping that a possibility is keeping the middle infield together.  They can sustain the loss of LaRoche and even Grabow, but they need Freddy and Jack to make that anything close to possible.

pi-rat wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 6:14 AM

dk- you are usually pretty subtle, but I love the tone of

'PIRATES FLATTEN [insert punk-a** team]'.

The pitchers are driving the success again. my hat is off to these young uns like morton who man up to PITCH.  gorzo continues to toughen. looks like snell dropped another notch on the p-depth chart. when we score 7 we will have a chance. I again concur that clutch, bones and moss-is-boss are the OF for now. JR let them gel. when we get blastings we'll figure him in too. hope springs eternal when pitchers are pitching and hitters are hitting.

LETS PUT FISH ON THE DISH AGAIN TODAY

JAL wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 6:25 AM

Morning Links Part 2--4th Fireworks edition

Plat by Play Pitch by Pitch of Last Night's Game

scores.espn.go.com/.../playbyplay

Coach's novelty pitch endures after 30 years

www.sfgate.com/.../article.cgi

Not a Happy Ship

www.philly.com/.../20090702_High___Inside__NL_Notes.html

Catching up on the W.Va. Power

newsandsentinel.com/.../518957.html

JAL wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 6:43 AM

THE OFFICIALLY UNOFFICIAL PBC BLOGS AND MLB LINKS:

Fanhouse--Futilitywatch '09: Trade Winds Blowing

mlb.fanhouse.com/.../futilitywatch-09-trade-winds-are-blowing

Bucs Dugout--On Garrett Jones: Let's Not Get Carried Away Here

www.bucsdugout.com/.../garrett-jones-lets-not-get-carried

Sandlot Swashbucklers--One Unearned Run Ruins Gorzelanny's Complete Game

mvn.com/.../one-unearned-run-ruins-gorzelannys-complete-game.html

Raise the Jolly Roger--Salute to Salty

raisethejollyroger.com/.../salute-to-salty-pirates-7-marlins-4

Hyzdu Headquarters--If You Build It.....

hyzduhq.blogspot.com/.../if-you-build-it.html

The Green Weenie--Morton Marinates Marlins

oldbucs.blogspot.com/.../morton-marinates-marlins.html

PBC Homepage--Unfazed by rain delays, Morton cruises

pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

PBC Home Page--Jones' power bolsters Pirates' lineup

pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

MLB Transactions

www.cbssports.com/.../transactions

Bucco Fans--Pittsburgh Pirates Prospect Watch

www.buccofans.com/.../pittsburgh-pirates-prospect-watch-7309.html

Bucco Fans--Draft Signing Tracker

www.buccofans.com/.../2009-pittsburgh-pirates-draft-pick.html

MLB Trade Rumors

www.mlbtraderumors.com/pittsburgh_pirates

JAL wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 6:45 AM

BASIC INFORMATION ABOUT THE BLOG

As more people join this  community a number of questions arise.  Here are some clarifications.

1) Many of us who post here treat this as a discussion forum, not as a traditional blog.  Dejan's post sets the table but we respond to each other more than we respond to specifics of Dejan's post.

2) We always start the day with two threads--morning links and other stuff.  Morning links is primarily baseball discussion and Other Stuff is non baseball.

3) When some posts "OS" they are referring to the "Other Stuff" thread.

4)  Throughout the day, as stories break, Dejan will upload a new thread.  When you see the term "ants marching"  that simply means a new thread has been posted and most of the posters move to the new thread and start posting there.   Going to a new thread helps keep things flowing as we often have over 100 or even 200 posts on the original thread.

5) Instructions for uploading an avatar can be found by clicking my name, BK's name, or Mad's name.  We all have the instructions on our announcements page.  Many find avatars make following the posts easier.  The photo must be on your computer and the avatar will not appear instantly.

6)  Sign in w/ Nurse Cratchet for your straight jacket, meds, and room assignment

7)  As Dejan reminded us the other day, this thread is for baseball talk and the OS is for other topics

8)  Please read the 'guide to commenting' before you post" A link to the guide to commenting on the blog is located on the left near the top of the page in the section labeled  "Authors"

9) Do not post entire articles from other sources. - It is an act of illegal copyright infringement.   Just post links to the story

I surely left something out but hopefully covered the basics

Joey Bats wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 7:11 AM

RAISE THAT JOLLY ROGER...in between rain drops !!!

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  PROSPECT WATCH  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Today’s Topic: CATCHER (stats thru 7/3/09)

Steve Lerud – Bats L – Altoona (3rd  Round, 2003 Draft)

2 HR 12 RBI  .242  ** 57 Games 182 ABs, 17 R, 44 H, 35K, 22 BB, 1SB

Kris Watts – Bats L – Lynchburg (16th  Round, 2006 Draft)

4 HR 28 RBI  .299  ** 60 G, 187 ABs,  38 R, 56 H, 22K, 40BB, 2 SB

Eric Fryer – Bats R - Lnychburg (obtained in E. Hinske trade)

(Jorge) Tony Sanchez – Bats R – S.Col. & West Va. (1st Round, 2009 Draft)

0 HR 3 RBI  .333  **  7 G, 27 ABs, 4 R, 9 H,  3K, 1 BB, 0 SB

Andrew Walker – Bats R – West Virginia (5th  Round, 2007 Draft)

1 HR  13 RBI  .211  ** 35 G, 114 ABs,  14 R, 24 H, 28K, 20 BB, 0 SB

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wabbit_Season wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 8:01 AM

37 down.  44 to go.

We are 81 games into the season and we have got to pick up the pace.  We have to basically reverse our 6 games under performance of the first half in the second half and we'll be there.

But that means we have to get on a little tear sometime soon and keep winning series.  We must start to turn the corner on our divisional foes if this is to be possible.

Starchild Says:

#1 Star : Morton - some of his stuff was sick yesterday.

#2 Star: Vazquez - much needed 2 run HR was big.

#3 Star: Moss - Coming along with the average, some balls just have to leave the yard if he keeps getting quality cuts.

Last time I saw Ohlendorf pitch, he seemed to be locked on.  Morton looked like that yesterday.  I really like where the pitching is going.  The defense is fine.  NOW, for just a little more bite in the batting order and I really believe a .500 season is on the way.

I liked Russell bubbling about Jones the other day.  Put him and Doumit in the lineup together and you have some respectable power that will help the rest of the lineup produce.

"Hey!  Dracula!  Did you ever have the feelin' you was bein' watched?"

Wabbit.

Joey Bats wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 8:29 AM

$$$$$  BODY WATCH – ATTENDANCE AT MLB PARKS $$$$$

Thru 7/3/09

30. Florida……… 43 dates ** 776,692 total  **  18,062 avg.

29. Oakland……. 40 dates ** 725,096 total  **  18,127 avg.

28. PIRATES ….. 39 dates ** 720,947 total  **  18,485 avg.

27. Cleveland….. 42 dates ** 932,230 total  **  22,195 avg.

26. Toronto…...… 43 dates ** 982,117 total  **  22,839 avg.

1. NY Yanks … 39 dates ** 1,762,064 total   **   45,181 avg.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

pi-rat wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 8:40 AM

let JR bring on a little bit of pressure. these guys must want to play regardless. calm the nerves then go out and play ball.

my 2nd half line-up of who I would PAY to see- maybe in LA when I am stateside again and they come left coastal in sept:

clutch cf

freddy 2b

blastings lf

doumit c

moss rf

jones 1b [can he play that?]

andy 3b

jack ss

stud inside heat pitcher du jour

I don't see jones a s listed at first in depth chart or on his bio, but I can dream. I like pearce, but jones may break out.

THE FISH WILL WISH

DUKE HAS NO JUKE

roxtar wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 9:26 AM

Interesting article in the Miami Herald this morning talking about the trade moves the Fish should make, in light of the fact that neither the Phillies or the Mets seem to want to win the NL East.

The money quote (from a Bucco perspective):

"The sexier move would be to add offense by playing vulture on the rosters of those already lying in the road-kill lane. Right now, that's a carcass zoo composed of Baltimore, Kansas City, Cleveland, Oakland, Washington, Arizona and San Diego."

Who's missing from that list?

Looks like we're getting some hap.

roxtar wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 9:29 AM

The Herald headline on the game story is pretty nice, too:

"PIRATES CONTINUE DOMINANCE"

Say what?

Baywatch wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 9:46 AM

Good Morning, Roxtar, JAL, JoeyBats, Pi-Rat, Wabbit ... and

HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY TO ALL!

Think we could get some runs for Duke for a change??

marty34156 wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 9:49 AM

Good morning asylum, and Happy 4th! Good win last night.

pi-rat

Yes Jones can play 1st.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                              Biz

"IMO, you throw Jones and Moss out therewith MCCutch, lets see wgat happensm IMO seved days"

I agree with you 100%.

jersey joe wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 10:00 AM

                              DUKES GOT HIS JUKE

marty34156 wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 10:02 AM

roxtar

"PIRATES CONTINUE DOMINANCE"

Man that sure is great to read!

Thundercrack wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 10:05 AM

I really hope JR sticks with Jones, McCutch and Moss for a while. It seems like DYoung can just flat out hit -so he doesn't need much playing time to keep his hitting sharp.  His defense is just too shaky.

I saw the first few early innings and the last two last night. One thing that I was mildly surprised by was that JR brought Karstens in for the ninth.  He seems to be our long man ...or at least well suited for that role.  He pitched on Thursday afternoon.  When you're playing in Florida there is a rain delay almost every game.  So why bring in Karstens in for one inning -in the ninth-when you got a pretty good lead?  There is a good chance that you may need him to step in after a prolonged rain delay and go 3 innings.

Maybe JR studied the weather reports and they are better for today and tomorrow.  Plus he did use almost everyone on Thurs afternoon.  Or maybe they see Karstens as a late inning guy.  Or maybe I'm looking too much into it.

marty34156 wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 10:07 AM

                  ZACH WILL BE ON THE ATTCK!

jersey joe wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 10:07 AM

Every heart has been touched by these fourth of july tunes:

www.youtube.com/watch

www.youtube.com/watch

www.youtube.com/watch

madturk2008 wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 10:11 AM

Good Morning all!  Have a safe and happy 4th of July.

TripleG wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 10:12 AM

I've got a great Asylum story for you this morning.  So I'm visiting my family in Erie, PA which I rarely do since Iowa is 10 hours away.  Last night I go to a family function (grad party) and my cousin (who lives in the burgh) says, "I see you've been blogging".  I think for a minute and then ask "the Pirates blog"?  "Yeah, I read your stuff every day... you sure were mad when they traded McClouth".  This confused me since I pretty much endorsed the trade once I got over the initial shock.  Then it hit me... he had determined that I was MazFromIowa!  Hilarious!  He felt it HAD to be me because who else in Iowa would be a bucs fan?

Bucs Nation marches on!

madturk2008 wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 10:14 AM

@Thundercrack wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size

on Jul 4, 2009 10:05 AM

"Karstens"

__________

I think it had more to do with the large lead, the fact that Duke will pitch today and go at least 7 and the bullpen being used the other day.  Along with hoping the weather is better today.  So I think you covered all the bases...  :-)

jersey joe wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 10:18 AM

Thundercrack,  I think maybe now that he is having a little flexaability with starter options here and Gorzo he is just toying around to see if one or another step up to new roles.

Bringing Karstens in does have some thought:  to focus from the first pitch.

He did pretty well except for that one pitch that moved right over the middle of the plate and then pitch boom.

I think it was suppose to be a little more inside to his wrists to get him to begin to have a being jammed swing then move away to be at best fouled off.  if I explained it right the end is the batter was suppose to make conmtact behind himself.

jersey joe wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 10:23 AM

New Bob is making progress in Indy, we will need to make room for him.  

Gorzo?  All of a sudden we have true competition.

Drew71 wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 10:27 AM

Good morning JAL, Baywatch, Madturk, Jersey Joe, Roxtar, Marty, Thunder, anyone i missed, any lurkers, and Pirate fans near and far.

Happy Independence Day!

Back home after a long week of travels.  Heading to the beach with Mrs Drew to see how many heads she can turn.  My favorite holiday pastime.

roxtar wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 10:29 AM

It will be hard to get any value for Adam as a part-year rental.  The CBA frowns on "sign and trade" deals such as you see in ther NBA, and I don't believe a trade triggers a compensatory draft pick, such as happens when you lose a free agent post-season.  We may have Adam for the balance of the season (not a bad thing, IMO), with Jones, Moss, Pearce and Young splitting time in RF.  Someone will have to go down when Milledge comes up, someone will have to go down when Veal comes back, and someone will have to go down when Doumit comes back.  I assume Diaz goes down for Doumit.

Do we keep Jones as backup for Adam and option Pearce?  

Let's suppose the nominal starting OF is Moss, McCutchen and Milledge. This leaves us with a bench of Young, Jones, Salazar, Ramon Vazquez and Jaramillo.

Do we send Jackson down for Veal?  We also have Yates coming back, but we're top-heavy with RHP in the bullpen.  There are no lefties at Indy, either.  I wouldn't want to see Grabow as our only LH reliever.  

Does anyone see any option other than putting Gorzo in the bullpen?

Drew71 wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 10:33 AM

Just for the heck of it, how about a baseball question re: last night?

When the Asylum assembled for the Baygame last Sunday, Morton pitched, he was only marginally good...however intriguing.  I noticed that his pitch speeds varied from 93 MPH to the low 70s.  He had trouble getting his offspeed stuff over the plate so last week, the KC batters waited on his fast ball as the game progressed.  Still, results were ok: 5 innings, 3 runs.  But i remember thinking...if he can learn to get his offspeed stuff over the plate, the hitters will twist themselves into corkscrews trying to deal with 20 MPH changes between pitches.

I didnt see the game last night.  My question for those who saw it...Is that essentially what happened?  Did Morton get his slow stuff over the plate and did the batters seem to have their timing off all day?

leadoff wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 10:44 AM

Good Morning everyone, happy 4th to you all.

Drew

He was getting his changeup over and it was getting bad swings by the Marlins, he also had a fast ball that would be going down the middle and look like a fat pitch, the hitters started their swings and before they knew it the pitch moved and busted them inside and he was sawing them off and breaking bats.

I did notice that Jarimillo has having a tough time catching him because the ball was breaking all over the place.

He did reach 96 at least once that I can remember.

I also thought he was fooling the umpire with a lot of pitches, I think the ump made up his mind too quick on a few pitches, Morton definitely had a few bad calls on him IMO.

TripleG wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 10:47 AM

@leadoff - do you think the bad calls were against Morton or in his favor?  I got in late and caught part of the FSN replay but not enough to get a decent feel for Morton.

Bizrow wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 10:48 AM

Morning all mates, happy Uncle Sam birthday

My typing was atrocious last night, must have been the Iron City

So, to disassemble that mess, throw Brandon and Garrett out there for a week, see what they can do before Lastings shows up, he comes up, IMO Pearce goes down to Indy till Adam is traded

Lets go fishing:

Bucco Nation (40 States in the Union)

Still looking for inmates from the following:

Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Hawaii, Minnesota, North Dakota,

Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Wyoming

Much thanks to thanks to coreybower for knocking Tennessee off the list

We do have 9 countries represented: Australia, Brazil, Canada, England, Germany, Ireland, Phillipines, Scotland and lest I forget, the good old USA, Happy Birthday Uncle Sam

leadoff wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 10:50 AM

roxtor

Do we send Jackson down for Veal?  We also have Yates coming back, but we're top-heavy with RHP in the bullpen.  There are no lefties at Indy, either.  I wouldn't want to see Grabow as our only LH reliever.  

____________________________

JR likes Jackson's sinker ball in tough situations, even though both are pitching well I believe the guy to go back will be either Meek or Chavez.

Also a trade is almost certainly going to happen concerning the bullpen, I would trade Yates for whatever I could get for him.

I believe they are shopping Grabow and Capps.

I don't understand Grabow.

Drew71 wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 10:53 AM

Leadoff - thanks for the feedback

leadoff wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 10:54 AM

Triple

do you think the bad calls were against Morton or in his favor?  I got in late and caught part of the FSN replay but not enough to get a decent feel for Morton.

________________________________

I don't think the umpire was ripping Morton off, he made some bad calls on the Marlins too. I just think because Morton has such late breaking stuff that the umpire has to stay with him a little longer than some.

I doubt whether that umpire has seen stuff like Morton's very often. I have to say I have not.

He looked like Maddox only with a 95 mile an hour fast ball.

I am not making comparisons or implying that Morton is another Maddox.

Batavia wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 11:02 AM

I wholly agree with the sample size issue for all of the "newer" Buccos. We all remember Adrian Brown, Tyke Redman, etc.

Baywatch wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 11:09 AM

Drew - Glad you made it back, too. Me and Mrs. Bay pulled in about 3 p.m. yesterday, the culmination of an arduous journey that carried us about 3,000 miles, I figure.

Maybe you can go back and watch the condensed version of last night's game. There's no charge on mlb.tv for that ... Here's the link:

mlb.mlb.com/.../index.jsp

Just like Leadoff said ... Morton had electric stuff, with that fastball that tailed inside at the last second, sawing 'em off ... it was radical enough to where it looked like something from a Disney movie!

And, Buddy ... "Heading to the beach with Mrs Drew to see how many heads she can turn.  My favorite holiday pastime."

THAT puts a funny picture in my brain ... You point the curvaceous Mrs. Drew in the direction of the beach, then, counter in hand to register the amount of apes whose heads she turns, you say, "Go," then watch her swag on down ...

That would be some holiday pastime! :-)

radio wave wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 11:13 AM

Good morning inmates near and far.  I can't believe FSN Pittsburgh is not carrying the game tonight. ESPN gave up on holiday baseball years ago too. It used to be Memorial Day, today, and Labor Day were traditional ball game holidays.  Not any more.  A lot of talk the Phillies are begging for pitching. Anyone think they will try and get Gorzo or Snell?  At this mid point of the season, the Pirates are right about where I thought they would be. My prediction in the poll was 75-87.  Once again the elephant in the room is will they keep the middle infielders?  An interesting stat from MLB.com: Bucs have only scored five runs in Duke's six losses.  

Everyone have a wonderful 4th.

Oxford421 wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 11:31 AM

I see there is a lot of fascination with having an OF of Moss, Mcutch, and Jones for the remainder of the season.  We didnt trade for Miledge for him not to play, so expect Moss to move to First base where he actually played part time in 2007.  This eases the burden when LaRoche hopefully gets traded...We know that we have no middle infielders for Freddy and Jack but they are making a combined 13.5 million and have 6 home runes between them.  I think we bring up Bixler and give him 80 games to prove what he can do, not the usual sample of 15-20.  If he is not good in those 80 games, we know have quality OF prospects to trade for a SS...Regardless though, the bucos are building for 2012, so expect us to actualy finish with our usual 66-68 win platform this season.

gerardsmith wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 11:32 AM

Ok, ok.  I spoke too soon by one day.  Morton's stuff combined with velocity reminds one (that's me) of the lanky, angular, hard thrower the Marlins down here in Florida acquired from the Dodgers (I believe) in a major trade involving (I believe) Bad Penny (some call him Brad) and Mike  Piazza.  Marlins gave up more, but not being their fan, don't recall who.  Anyhow, both this pitcher (who Morton reminds me of) and Piazza were rentals who brought a championship and then were traded for prospects (we could learn much from Marlins---they actually get top prospects.  Anyhow, comparing Morton to this guy (help!) is a major compliment and, if last night represents a typical outing, then Pittsburgh does have (at least in-progress) a non-pudgy, hard-throwing pitcher with great stuff who can throw strikes and not get creamed.  Hanrahan throws hard and threw it in the strike zone last night and got creamed.  A "safe" lead enabled him to be adventurous.  Capps and Chavez both get creamed when their fastballs (their arsenal) catch too much of the plate.  Movement on Morton's stuff plus speed sure reminds me of this Marlins what's-his-name.  p.s. A rich team (could'a been the Mets) picked up his salary and he's now retired.  

piratesOfGollahalli wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 11:33 AM

@radio - holy crap, i loved the holiday triple headers.  its gave me a reliable reprieve from holiday family, um, togetherness.  would anyone else like to see us thrash the marlins and have a team for the first time in forever that we could call our reliable punching bag?  when was the last time we reliably dominated an opponent?  it hasnt happened yet, but it could

smoky burgess wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 11:45 AM

it wasnt many years ago when we beat Milwaukee 17 out of 18 or something close to that

JAL wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 11:48 AM

Come on gray men--Please click on my avatar fror instructions on adding an avatar --many of us agree that avatars make following the post much easier.

darylethepiratefan wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 11:49 AM

Happy 4TH ASYLUM,

@radio, I also grew up watching the triple headers on espn, I have the MLB package so at least I can see the Bucs tonite, Man if we can get a good outing from DUKE, this would be a big lift, I am already excited about seeing the lineup, it seems like everyone is contribuing ...YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

CURRENT PIRATE STANDINGS AS OF 8:46 PST

6.0 GB OF STL FOR NL CENTRAL ( MY GOAL IS 3 BY THE BREAK

6.5 GB SF GIGANTES FOR NL WILDCARD..

It would be an understatement to say I get EXCITED at times but SOMETHING is happening here, If this were blackjack , Management is getting 21's and in some cases 20 , my point is things like depth in regards this organization as a whole is GETTING BETTER EVERYDAY , ..

If we had a hot dog eating contest here in the asylum , who would win??

.

piratesOfGollahalli wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 11:52 AM

ah also the umping and morton.  ump was calling one of the lowest strike zones ive ever seen, and morton was often the beneficiary of this.  the movement was the best ive seen from a pirates pitcher in quite some time, better than snell's good year.

happy 4th, ill be listening to the game and then to the symphony in heartwood acres.  peace.

GoombaRagu wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 11:52 AM

Happy 4th to everyone!

 I just found this little link check it out and see what you all think about it.

www.mlbtraderumors.com/.../edes-latest-giants-teahen-relievers.html

socaldonn wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 11:57 AM

Good morning and Happy Independence Day from sunny Southern California.  Hope all have a great holiday.  

I ,for one, am ready to declare my independence from salary dumps!  

In Neal We Trust.

WilliamWallace wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:02 PM

@ Goomba,

I'm all for trading him if they don't plan on resigning him and letting him bat around 6th in the order.

socaldonn wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:08 PM

Goomba,

In reference to your Giants rumor, here's a link to what I would believe to be the Giants top SS prospect.  He was just promoted several weeks ago to AA after hitting .370 (with some pop) at Class A San Jose.

www.minorleaguebaseball.com/.../stats.jsp

Groat2Maz2Strangeglove wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:09 PM

Oxford,

I was going to make some wise crack about you proving you didn't go "there" by your comment about Bixler .  .  .  but maybe you only follow the Bucs in print.  So, no wise cracks yet.

Bixler has looked heavily medicated when playing with the Bucs the last two years in replacing Wilson.  He got almost 6 weeks last season, and around 20 games on the roster this season.  If anything, this season he was actually worse!  

In both situations, he was the obvious choice to get the majority of playing time, yet yielded to lesser players by his actions.  He showed poor break on the ball, made errors on rather easy plays, ran the bases poorly, and couldn't hit.  Couldn't even make contact, as he struck out 11 of his last 16 AB's or something like that.

Right now he is barely batting .240 in AAA, and still striking out way too much, plus making errors.  Nothing in his AAA play is pointing to his being a viable major leaguer.  Do you expect his play to improve if he moves up a grade—a big grade!—to the Major Leagues??

Our only salvation to still have a credible season and keep giving support to our groundball throwing, non-strikeout pitchers is to play Jack Wilson until he falls over.

Next season is really scary!

WilliamWallace wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:11 PM

@ Socaldonn

He'd be nice to have, but I don't know if the Giants are desperate enough to give up a top prospect for LaRoche.

piratesOfGollahalli wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:16 PM

@daryle i dont share your enthusiasm for our lineup, but im pretty stoked about our pitching staff.  with the exception of snell for weeks, our starters are on the whole throwing more strikes and showing better location and command than i remember as a staff in a very long time, maybe ever (i was 12 in 1992, and i didnt exactly recognize "command" then).

im excited because we could surprise the crap out of people with a pitching staff that is unknown and effective, which in a pretty mediocre year for divisional competition and the national league in general (12 teams have between 37-44 wins), could keep baseball "meaningful" for awhile.  

i havent seen jones enough so i cant evaluate myself, but russell was rather effusive - so i dont know if he saw something or if he was smoking the pirates crack (and thanks to cutch for another heads up play and backing jones up on the double off the wall late in the game last night), but if his bat was legitimately blocked in minnesota, then maybe im a little sunnier on our lineup.  unfortunately, ill bet you my roommate's cat that laroche will be gone in july and probably sanchez, which wont help in the 2nd half.

coachrv30 wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:18 PM

Whoops, goofed up my typing skills, or lack thereof, as I began my previous blog. I agree with Leadoff's assessment that the Bucs are shopping Grabow and/or Capps. My rationale is that with a number of teams right in the thick of the pennant hunt, there will be a number of these teams seeking a solid set-up and/or closer, thus making the market value of G and C go up while the Pirates continue to look at some relievers they have now or who are in the system. Perhaps their most recent addition from the Nationals might help support this logic. With neither Adam or Jack being seriously sought by many - if any - teams, the Pirates could deal from their strength, the bullpen, without sacrificing too much this season. Hopefully, even for just defensive purposes, Adam and Jack will not be traded. I don't know whether DK or anyone else out there agrees with this line of thought, but this is currently going through my mind, especially since we already have several pitchers who could possibly be recalled and several who could be moved down. I think NH has some cards to play here. I surely hope he will play an ace and not a joker. Even so, I have a gut feeling that Pittsburgh is beginning to turn the corner on meaningful moves. Just don't burst the bubble of those who are the heart of the chemistry that remains this season. Do I sound like I just fell off the turnip truck with this line of thinking or is there some solid reasoning here? Support or refute this logic. At least it is something to think about. Whatever the line of thinking, may we definitely raise the Jolly Roger in the near future.

GoombaRagu wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:20 PM

@Socaldonn

I like the looks of that kid.  Very nice OPS. I have another kid for you to check out.

web.minorleaguebaseball.com/.../stats.jsp

Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll give him up for LaRoche since he's a 1B also. He's been ranked their no.1 prospect.

socaldonn wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:25 PM

William,

I hear that but they''re now 7.5 behind the Dodgers but just one game ahead of the Rockies in the wild card race.  They've had just tremendous pitching this year but have very little pop offensively.  Given LaRoche and his second half history, they may feel he can carry them after the break.

They have another ss prospect hitting over .300 at AAA but he's already in his late 20's as opposed to Crawford at 22.

You're right though.  It'd most likely be tough to pry him away.

DMac wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:26 PM

I don't think anyone is getting the game on TV tonight...it's a National blackout, due to Fox's coverage this afternoon.  Our game is falling within their blackout period.  It's not even going to be streamed live online.

socaldonn wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:29 PM

Goomba,

I like both of these kids.  Both very young with big frames.  

Go got 'em, Neal.

GoombaRagu wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:31 PM

Socaldonn

I agree come on Neal make this happen!

piratesOfGollahalli wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:32 PM

@ww i see laroches value as a highly coveted rental.  noone wants to sign this guy long term, but he is money in the bank from july forward (and 2009 bonus: june!), and could certainly make the difference between a team making the playoffs and not.  i agree that it depends on how desperate teams are for band aid 1b help, which is why im rooting for the mets so much right now.  so laroche will go to the deadline, because it will take quite a bit for a team to get desperate enough to give nh what it would take to get him (this based on dk's description of the bay trade and my perception of the returns of all non-nyjer morgan trades made thus far by nh).  given the emphasis on 2nd half performance in these situations, i think laroche is the best rental weve ever had (not counting bay, since he wasnt traded in his contract year). if the giants or mets are still hanging around in late july, maybe they do get desperate enough, and we do get a borderline elite prospect . . . ?

gerardsmith wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:37 PM

Tuscony column in Wash. Post exactly my sedimens re. Wilson outburst.  Stick a mike in his face, what's he supposed to say?  Keep tellin' it Jack, and don't worry about the fallout!  You've a right to your opinion.  Aren't you the senior member?  Trading a likable overachiever for an unlikable underachiever doesn't make any sense to me either, Jack, and we could both be proven wrong.  But stick that mike in my face and ask, I'll tell you my thoughts about it---with one qualifier.  Grow up Milledge!  Or not.  

Groat2Maz2Strangeglove wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:38 PM

Recreational Vehicle Coach,

If Adam LaRoche continues to increase his statistics like he has been doing the last 5 weeks—which, by the way, he has done the last two seasons—he will be gone at the first offer to the Bucs

1/  He is a free agent at the end of the season, and the Pirates would get nothing for him then.

2/  The Pirates do NOT want to resign him at approx. 3 years/ $25 million minimum, maybe more.

3/  The Pirates apparently feel they have adequate replacements at first with Moss, Jones, Pearce, and possibly even eventually Doumit.  I don't see Doumit realistically at first, but he is an option.

4/  Every month LaRoche plays for the Bucs, it costs them approx. $1.25 million.  If Nutting and Co. can trade him around July 31 trading deadline, they save around $2.5 million.  Tell Adam Good-bye, Coach!!!!

WilliamWallace wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:40 PM

@ Socal

Sporting News magazine has Brandon Crawford ranked as the next big thing at shortstop. 6-2, 200 pounds. Say he will take over for Edgar Renteria in 2011.

He'd be nice to have, but it might take more than LaRoche.

JRay03 wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:44 PM

This is from espn insider

The Yankees could be interested in Pirates pitcher John Grabow.

The New York Post reported that the Pirates had two scouts at Thursday's game between the Yankees and the Mariners. Their presence only adds to speculation the Yankees have an interest in the 30-year-old Grabow as a second lefthander for their bullpen.

socaldonn wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:44 PM

pirates,

I think you make a great point about LaRoche relative to his value.  Once again, given his track record, a team can expect Manny-type numbers from him over the next three months.  He could be the difference in making it or not.  

Which team will blink first?

On another trade front, here in LA it's being reported that the Dodgers are shopping for another starting pitcher.  Jason Schmidt has had two starts at AA in an attempted comeback.  The first was outstanding (7 2/3 shoutout innings) but the second was rough.  I'm not advocating trading one of our starters (I hate to deal pitching, especially young pitching that has shown the ability to win) but I would think that Duke and Maholm would be on Colletti's radar.

WilliamWallace wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:45 PM

I know the Pirates have been stockpiling outfield prospects and everything, but perhaps they should look into Jeff Franceour. He's having a rough year, but he's still very young and has already had 30 homer, 100+ RBI seasons. I'm sure they'd be interested in LaRoche given their lack of a first basemen and their history together. Just saying....buy low

wakerider429 wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 12:57 PM

The Pirates need to get Milledge healthy and see what he can do.  They could have a decent outfield of Milledge McCutchen and Jones. Good defense in the LF and CF, and Jones runs well to cover the smaller RF in PNC Park.  Jones and Milledge could be good for 20+ home runs and McCutchen will be setting the table.

GoombaRagu wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:01 PM

Wake

I totally agree and when Tabata or Gorkeys is ready they can possibly slide Jones over to 1st. Finally the Bucs have options throughout the organization. Now all we need is for NH to start stockpiling infielders.

Groat2Maz2Strangeglove wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:03 PM

Espn Insider just acts as a shill for the Yankees and Red Sox, their dominant summer programming.  They see every other team as just Farm clubs, waiting to give their resources to NY or Boston.

SoCal Donnie, I would say the same about the Dodgers wanting Duke or Maholm.  What do they have that we need?  We know from last offseason they do not have middle infield help for us in the minors, our biggest needs.

I'd say the Buccos would never trade Duke and Maholm, but we did give away McLouth for a AAA pitcher not even listed in Braves Top 10 prospects, a thrice traded AA outfielder with no power, and a years away single A pitcher with an ERA over 5.00.

Yotum wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:15 PM

G2M2S-

The Dodgers have some SS prospects who are pretty raw, as well as some arms. The problem with the arms is the ones they'd be willing to part with seem to translate to ML relievers, which isn't something I'd give a starter for.

And to talk about Morton not being in the top-10 seems to be nitpicking. He'd broken his "prospect" status by debuting with the Braves last year. He was pretty well-regarded in years past. I can't defend the other two because I haven't watched them, but I do know plenty of Braves fans who weren't pleases with giving up Locke. We'll see.

popsfan wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:15 PM

Re: Garrett Jones

Small sample size be darned!  He's already proven hiomself as a hitter of, if not Ruthian, at least, Pujolian stature.  :)

(Sorry, just wanted to see what it was like to get carried away.)

Anyhow I shall be leaving in a few hours for the first of my two Bucco games (aside from spring training) this year.  I am looking forward to seeing Duke pitch as the only other time I've seen him was back in his rookie year, he was at his peak but didn't come back after the rain delay.

Fireworks and KC and the Sunshine ban after the game--woohoo.  Nice seats to the left of home plate a couple rows up,expensive but the GF will enjoy the show.  

socaldonn wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:22 PM

Groatie,

Feel free to browse.  Really don't know much about the Dodgers prospects.  Dee Gordon looks to be a good SS prospect but who knows......

losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/.../prospects.jsp

By the way, as of today, that McLouth trade looks to be a  win for Huntington.  

WilliamWallace wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:28 PM

@Groat

McLouth straight up for Morton would be worth it if things continue the way they have been developing. Locke and Gorkys are just a bonus.

Groat2Maz2Strangeglove wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:34 PM

Yotum,

We've got 4 SS prospects in AA and upper and lower A that are equitable to Dodger infield prospects, so would not be a good trade for us to trade Major League double-figure winning pitchers for raw  low minors duplicates.

What we need is someone to play SS next season!

I like Charlie Morton——I have to:  he's now a Pirate.  Sort of like my kids:  I think they're great even when they're not, because they are mine!

Yet I think we could have gotten Morton straight up for Adam LaRoche, whom we are not going to resign, and still have McLouth in right field, projecting 25 home runs and 90 + RBI's. [as he produced last year, as well]

JAL wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:37 PM

Trades are very difficult to evaluate quickly except those designed for a quick fix.  Early returns make the Marte/Nady trade look very good, the McLouth trade look  positive, the Bay trade look at least equal, and the Burnett/Morgan trade too early to evaluate.

As players still in the minors from those trades develop there will more to evaluate them on.    

roxtar wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:41 PM

Take a look at the minor league rosters and tell me if you see a legitimate LH reliever anywhere. We got nothin'.  If Grabow is traded, we're in a world of hurt.  Any deal we make, for anybody,  should include a major-league ready LH reliever coming back.  This weakness will cost us as many games as our lack of power.

WilliamWallace wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:42 PM

@ Groat

If we get a top five prospect for LaRoche, so that the return for LaRoche and McLouth is three top-10 prospects and Charlie Morton, wouldn't you say that is a pretty good return for two flawed players?

Yotum wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:49 PM

Groat,

I didn't really conclude, but I, like you, wouldn't pull a deal with the Dodgers unless they wanna talk about their top pitchers--and even then, it's a reach.

WilliamWallace wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:50 PM

@ Roxtar

Donnie Veal?

JAL wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:51 PM

roxtar

Yep, not much in the minors, and trading a LH reliever fir a LH reliever is very unlikely so tey would have to another deal to get one to replace Grabow.  Grabow may the closest to untouchable they have on the roster next to Cutch

socaldonn wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:53 PM

@Groat,

Just to clarifications....

I'm not advicating a trade with the Dodgers.  I was simply stating that they are said to be in the market for a pitcher, which we happen to have and have been rumored to be available for the right price.  I don't know that there's a match there.  

Also, if the trade would be discussed, I don't think NH would simply be in the market for a SS prospect.  I think he has been, and should be, simply shopping  for the best value reagrdless of position.  I'd be happy with ten great OF prospects.  Then you can deal from a position of strength to address a position of need when necessary.

JAL wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:54 PM

WW

Veal has the potential but is has not yet shown he can do a good job-still a work in progress.

Groat2Maz2Strangeglove wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 1:57 PM

Goodness Gracious, pass the Kool-ade!!!

How can you guys say the McLouth trade is a win???!!!!!!!

McLouth still projects to a 25 HR, 90+ RBI season, batting leadoff for the Braves!  He has yet to make an error.  Nyger Morgan would STILL be tied for outfield lead in HR's with 2 if not traded!

McLouth being traded had NOTHING to do with McCutch's production in center.  If you believe that, I've got some beachfront property to sell you in West Virginia!  Imagine McLouth driving in McCutch and playing right field flawlessly instead of Delwyn "Juggling Cats" Young.

Morton was so highly thought of by the Braves that in the two weeks prior to the trade, the Braves brought up not just one, but two, starting pitchers from their AAA rotation INSTEAD of Morton.

Jeez, guys, I like Morton but he's only 1-1, with one good outing.  We gave up a starting center fielder, reigning Gold Glove, 4th in the National League of all outfielders in RBI's at time of trade, for their 3rd best AAA starter.

Would any team in the Majors trade their starting center fielder and #3 hitter for Virgil Vasquez, our 3rd best AAA starter at Indy until recently?!?

We could have had Charlie Morton for less!

We gave away McLouth and hid it behind McCutch's promotion.

Yotum wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:04 PM

Groat-

Our "3-hitter and CFer" is different from, say, a good team. Example: Beltran. He's their CFer and usually bats 3rd, but he's far better than Nate.

Also, Morton and Vazquez aren't equal. The Braves have a very solid farm system, whereas ours is slowly being rebuilt. Your examples don't apply here, because you're assuming things are equal when, in fact, they are not.

We got 3 guys for an overrated fielder and a good hitter--when on a bad team. He hasn't exactly lead the Braves to glory. Ultimately, I'll take wins over stats, and he's not producing wins for a new--better?--team.

leadoff wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:04 PM

Do the Pirates need to trade anyone?

In the economic times of today, a lot of guys thought they were going to get a lot of money last year and did not.

The Bucs will be able to renegotiate Freddie and Jack if they keep them, Adam can leave to if he gets the money he thinks he is going to get. We can replace him.

I am sure the Pirates would rather keep Adam the rest of the year as opposed to giving him away for a bucket of balls.

The Pirates with LaRoach, Freddie and Jack, throw in Doumit the rest of the year might be a decent lineup. We already have a very good starting pitching staff.

If the Pirates were at 5 games or so behind in August, would the fans come out? a few packed houses might justify keeping some of these guys.

roxtar wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:05 PM

@JAL: The problem with Grabow is that he is an FA after this season (probably Class A), and he could be a critical piece for a contender.  So, do we trade him to a contender for a AA or AAA player with a track record (I wouldn't expect much, since he's just a rental), or wait for the compensatory draft pick next spring?

@William Wallace: I'm not sure if Veal is on the 25 man roster because he is a Rule 5 pick, or because he can throw the ball 60.5 feet with his left hand.  His 2.37 whip and the fact that we've only seen fit to use him in 5 appearances this year doesn't quite raise him to the level of "legitimate" in my eyes.  He's borderline major-league ready at best, at this point in his development.  We got a breather putting him on the DL with a rehab assignment.  His numbers at Indy aren't terrible, but he doesn't fill me with confidence.

Bucco Fan For Life wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:08 PM

Happy 4th of July fellow inmates!

@TripleG - glad you made it safely to Erie!  Great story about your family thinking you were Maz.

Hoping for another win tonight for the Bucs against the Fish.  Anybody notice the Marilins stadium has a new name... again?

I hope the bullpen pitches better tonight, I am confident, though, if the Bucs put up runs as they have in the past two days and Duke has his Juke, we will be celebrating a victory!

roxtar wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:11 PM

leadoff: In the final analysis, your position makes a lot of sense.

A lineup with Jack, Freddy, 2nd half Adam, Doumit, McCutchen, Andy, and the best 2 of Blastings Milledge, Brandon Moss, Garret Jones doesn't bother me at all.

Of course, if we're 8 to 10 games back on July 26, all bets are off.

leadoff wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:15 PM

On Veal,

He has to be on the major league roster if the Pirates can't make a deal with the Cubs. I am sure the Pirates would like to make a deal with the Cubs the way they made one with the Rays to keep Meek, but the Cubs might not want to.

If the Pirates did make a deal with the Cubs, Veal would surely go back to the minors this year as Meek did last year.

So I don't think that Veal is in the Bucs plans this year, if they have to keep him at the major league level, they probably will give him a turn or two at mop up duty.

leadoff wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:17 PM

Roxtar

Of course, if we're 8 to 10 games back on July 26, all bets are off.

___________________________

With Neal, I think if we are 2 games ahead on July 26th all bets would be off. He is going to listen to offers and if he gets one he likes, you can bet a trade is going to happen.

DMac wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:19 PM

Veal is on the 25-man because he's a Rule 5 pick.  I think they're going to have to make room for him soon though, to come off the DL.

And IMO, he's not a legitimate replacement for Grabow, unless he's learned a lot of control.

piratesOfGollahalli wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:20 PM

@groat - beachfront in wv?  make it happen!  all those mountains, cheap land . . . you could buy 1000 acres and put in and reroute the little kanawha to pool, bring in some jet skis and cornoas and seagulls and build a giant tilt table underneath it to produce waves.  this would be easy.

leadoff wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:21 PM

I do believe we can compete even with trades, pitching still rules in baseball, if you got it, you got a chance.

Take last night for example. We had the classic, one of the best hitters in the league right now, going up against a kid that was pitching as good as most and the pitching clearly won.

We can beat teams with good lineups and lineups that are better than ours if our pitchers win the duels.

JAL wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:21 PM

roxtar

Grabow is type A FA , which also gives the Bucs more options.  However, if team felt Grabow was a player that would put them in the playoffs, they might give up something good.  Never know

Groat2Maz2Strangeglove wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:26 PM

Yotum,

And yet  .  .  .  .  McLouth had more HR's AND more RBI's than Beltran at the time of the trade.  In fact he still does!  And the National League managers, not the writers, voted McLouth along side Beltran as Gold Glove last year.  More stolen bases too.

And the Mets, your "good team" example, have only 2 more wins than the Pirates with the best pitcher in the National League in their rotation.  Could we have won two more games with McLouth in the outfield beside McCutch, fielding consistently well and driving McCutch in?  More?

I think we gave up too much in McClouth.  We could have had Morton straight up at worst for free-agent-to-be Adam LaRoche.  

By the way, Virgil Vasquez has won as many games in one less start than Charlie Morton.

socaldonn wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:28 PM

@Yotum,

Well said and with fewer typos than I could have managed.

@Groat,

I think you're overvaluing McLouth.  I, too, would like to have him playing in our outfield but I believe NH determined that he had reached his ceiling thus he sold high.  That's part of why he didn't wait.  They obviously like Morton. Hernandez and Locke, to Yotum's point, would have graded out much higher in our system than they did in Atlanta's.  

NH has shown himself to be a pretty shrewd operator.  He gets an A from me.

JAL wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:33 PM

ants marching============================================

jersey joe wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:36 PM

by this tune

www.youtube.com/watch

Groat2Maz2Strangeglove wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:39 PM

Willy Wally,

If we could get a #5 prospect for Adam LaRoche, I'd drive my car to go pick him up!

LaRoche only has 2 1/2 months on his contract, then he's a Free Agent.  No team will give up that much for him.  Mets need him the most, floundering around a game under .500 in an easy division.  Maybe Braves!

Buccos will try to get something for him though, instead of just playing out the season to:  1/ get something, even a AA Minor Leaguer, instead of nothing, and 2/ to save Bobby Nutting $2 1/2 — 3 1/2 million this season!

Expect a return similar to Hinske trade, with Jones sliding in to 1st base.

Baywatch wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:40 PM

Just watching a little of the Nats-Braves game ... I miss Nyjer a little, and all, but I think we fleeced the Nationals on that trade. Now if we can just help Hanrahan and Throughly Modern Milledge reach their potential.

WilliamWallace wrote re: Morning links: Two-game sample size
on Sat, Jul 4 2009 2:44 PM

@ Groat.

McLouth is batting .259 for the year as of today, with about a dozen homers and 49 RBI. He did win a gold glove but was not an overly impressive defensive outfielder. Morton and Locke both bring high end starter potential, and Gorkys projects as a high end leadoff guy from what i've read. The Pirates won this deal if either pitcher reaches his potential, and whatever they get from Gorkys is a bonus.