Morning links: McCutchen aims high

Just got done watching the game on the DVR...as disappointed as I am, this game had everything.  But, if someone would have told me we'd chase the Mets starter before 3 innings, go through the Mets pitching staff, get hit by 3 balls, Garrrett Jones would almost hit for the cycle and K-Rod would almost throw 50 pitches...I'd have bet ALOT of money that we'd prevail.  

Haven't read any of the threads but I can only imagine what's in there.  Tough loss to be sure.

At least they kept it close, that's all you can ask for.  To them it is almost as good as a win.

yes, agreed- this is easier to take than a 3-0 loss. wood is good. nice to see adLa rip. clutch may be becoming a bit too 'carry it on his shoulders' pressing- this guy is the real deal. he'll be fine. he has already saved more runs than he has cost us.

very nice to see jones flash some O. if moss turns a bit and clutch stabilizes I think we have our outfield for the year. if jones can do first, fine with me, but get the bat in there.

the rain delay is far harder on the pitchers than the batters. I will give paul a pass on this one. but what is with these stollen bases? is it just me, or are we allowing a lot of bags to these thieves?

there once was a young lad named jones

this AM there's ringing on all his phones

Irates was his first fan

he said I know he can

crush the ball because he is bad to the bones

pi-rat wrote of the clutch and swipes.

I saw clutch his first game with JHADAR and again over the weekend with our groups, what I noticed was a bit slower bat speed a long with the other mentioned items like late decision and then over swinging to try and catch up.

It looks like he is fixing that.

Papacoach and I said at the same time sitting next to each other, they are stealing easy on Paul.  You can not tell on TV how much time it takes for Paul to deliver the Ball.

jJoe- awesome. they must play 'bad to the bone' at pnc when jones comes up. can we nickname him bones? pirate skull and cross bones/jones? it's a natural.

does lastings have a nickname that has stuck?

             Nothing on lastings yet

pi-rat, thanks

"Ever (or, "Never)-Lastings"

JJ, you're limerick  RAWKZ, and induced me to step out the bushes where I was being a peeping-tom on the Asylum.

Okay, now I'll slink back into darkness. Dejan, I never stop ready you. But until the day comes that Neal, Frank, and Kyle the Butt Boy who runs around the farm with his clipboard ... are all unceremoniously dumped out on their derrieres at the curbside of Federal street, I fear it will only be the occasional limerick by JJ, or Asylum Gathering cameos by Mr. and Mrs. Baywatch that will cause a "JL-sighting" hear on the BLOG.

And now, like the ghost of Nyjer Morgan, I am GAWN!!!!!!!

From DK's NOTEBOOK:   'in the interim, the Baltimore Orioles, one of a handful of other suitors, have ramped up the intensity to get Sano and have emerged -- for now -- as the front-runner.'

I regard signing Sano as a litmus test for Nutting's claimed resolve to  build a winner through the strategy of the draft, Latin America, etc. I'm bracing myself for yet another case of coming up short because other teams truly are willing to walk the walk and not just talk the talk. With the O's as the new frontrunner, I expect  we'll see "Wieters, Part Deux."

I'm glad to see the Bucs finally signing talent from Asia. This area, especially Japan & Taiwan, has a lot of talent just waiting to be discovered. Where do you think all of those Taiwan kids went to after they dominated the Little League World Series every year? Those players have grown and are still out there playing baseball, they just need a place to play.....

Morning Links Part 2

Play by Play, Pitch by Pitch or The Good, The Bad, The Ugly

sports.espn.go.com/.../playbyplay

Milledge gets fresh start with Pirates

www.bradenton.com/.../1551790.html

Deciding good, bad from Wilson's words

www.observer-reporter.com/.../07-03-09-Pirates-Column

Curti: Reign of error ending

www.timesonline.com/.../doc4a4d8296c4971609585780.txt

Connsider This: Pirates still have a great shot at winning the NL Central

www.alliednews.com/.../local_story_183135125.html

Pirates Keep Churning Outfielders

www.baseballamerica.com/.../268485.html

Pirates-Marlins Preview

www.sportingnews.com/.../pirates-marlins-preview

FIELDS OF DREAMS: Rays, Pirates to team up to renovate Bradenton baseball fields

www.bradenton.com/.../1551767.html

Tim Wakefield has paid his dues

www.newsobserver.com/.../1593745.html

Sources: Twins going after Bucs' Sanchez, Capps

msn.foxsports.com/.../Sources:-Twins-going-after-Bucs%27-Sanchez,-Capps

Clemente Museum honors Pittsburgh sports legend

www.rockwallheraldbanner.com/.../local_story_183145256.html

For Nats' Rizzo, it's about 'character'

washingtontimes.com/.../for-rizzo-its-about-character

THE OFFICIALLY UNOFFICIAL PBC BLOGS AND MLB LINKS:

Bleacher report--Pirates Make A Splash: Pittsburgh Begins Signing International Talent

bleacherreport.com/.../211116-pirates-make-a-splash-pittsburgh-begins-signing-international-talent

Bucs Dugout--News Roundup: Huntington: We Acquired Milledge Because We Could

www.bucsdugout.com/.../news-roundup-huntington-we

WhyGavs--Mets 9 Pirates 8

whygavs.com/.../game-79-mets-9-pirates-8.html

Wilbur Miller's Player Profiles-info on the latest additions

users.rcn.com/.../pirateprofiles.htm

Pittsburgh Lumber Company--Bucs Lose Rollercoaster

mvn.com/.../bucs-lose-rollercoaster.html

Sandlot Swashbucklers-Broadway Homers Twice, But Bats Take Two From Tribe

mvn.com/.../indians-drop-first-game-of-double-header.html

Sandlot Swashbucklers--Kratz and Bootcheck Named to IL All-Star Team

mvn.com/.../kratz-and-bootcheck-named-to-il-all-star-team.html

Raise the Jolly Roger-Rain and Blown Leads

raisethejollyroger.com/.../rain-and-blown-leads-mets-9-pirates-8

Hyzdu Headquarters--This Week on the Farm

hyzduhq.blogspot.com/.../this-week-on-farm.html

The Green Weenie--If It is Not This, it Is that

www.oldbucs.blogspot.com

Moskie Madness--All-Star Game

piratesprospect.mlblogs.com/.../all-star_game.html

PBC Home Page--Salazar ready to step in when needed

pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

PBC Home Page--Huntington answers fans' questions

pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

PBC Home Page--Jones gives Bucs lift with big bat

pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

Rumbunter--Pirates Lack Killer Instinct Fall to Mets 9-8

rumbunter.com/.../pirates-lack-killer-instinct-fall-to-mets-9-8

MLB Transactions

www.cbssports.com/.../transactions

Bucco Fans-Recap on Sano News

www.buccofans.com/.../pirates-notebook-recap-on-sano-news.html

Bucco Fans--Draft Signing Tracker

www.buccofans.com/.../2009-pittsburgh-pirates-draft-pick.html

Trade Rumors

www.mlbtraderumors.com/pittsburgh_pirates

BASIC INFORMATION ABOUT THE BLOG

As more people join this  community a number of questions arise.  Here are some clarifications.

1) Many of us who post here treat this as a discussion forum, not as a traditional blog.  Dejan's post sets the table but we respond to each other more than we respond to specifics of Dejan's post.

2) We always start the day with two threads--morning links and other stuff.  Morning links is primarily baseball discussion and Other Stuff is non baseball.

3) When some posts "OS" they are referring to the "Other Stuff" thread.

4)  Throughout the day, as stories break, Dejan will upload a new thread.  When you see the term "ants marching"  that simply means a new thread has been posted and most of the posters move to the new thread and start posting there.   Going to a new thread helps keep things flowing as we often have over 100 or even 200 posts on the original thread.

5) Instructions for uploading an avatar can be found by clicking my name, BK's name, or Mad's name.  We all have the instructions on our announcements page.  Many find avatars make following the posts easier.  The photo must be on your computer and the avatar will not appear instantly.

6)  Sign in w/ Nurse Cratchet for your straight jacket, meds, and room assignment

7)  As Dejan reminded us the other day, this thread is for baseball talk and the OS is for other topics

8)  Please read the 'guide to commenting' before you post" A link to the guide to commenting on the blog is located on the left near the top of the page in the section labeled  "Authors"

9) Do not post entire articles from other sources. - It is an act of illegal copyright infringement.   Just post links to the story

I surely left something out but hopefully covered the basics

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  PROSPECT WATCH  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Today’s Topic: OUTFIELDERS (stats thru 7/2/09)

Jose Tabata– CF – Altoona (part of X.Nady trade)

2 HR 15 RBI  .260  **  35 G, 123 AB,  19 R, 32 H, 14K, 16 BB, 6 SB

Gorkys Hernandez – OF – Altoona (part of McLouth trade)

1 HR 24 RBI  .294  **  78G, 303 AB,  44 R, 89 H, 74K, 21 BB, 12 SB

Jason Delaney – LF – Altoona (12th Round, 2005 Draft)

5 HR  37 RBI  .243  **  71G,  239 AB,  26R, 58 H, 48 K, 31 BB, 0 SB

Miles Durham – OF – Lynchburg & Altoona (22nd Round, 2006 Draft)

7 HR 41 RBI .287 ** 71 G, 268 AB, 42 R, 77 H, 61 K, 18 BB, 8 SB

Robbie Grossman – CF – West Virginia  (6th Round, 2008 Draft)

3 HR  27RBI  .290  **  66 G,  262 AB,  49R, 76 H, 91 K, 36 BB, 23 SB

Quincy Latimore – OF – West Virginia (4th Round, 2007 Draft)

6 HR  35 RBI  .258  **  64 G,  256AB,  36R, 66 H, 59 K, 12 BB,  2 SB

Starling Marte – OF – West Virginia (free agent Dominican Republic)

4 HR  11 RBI .370  **  7 G, 27 AB, 4R, 10 H, 5 K, 1 BB, 2 SB

Dave Rubinstein – CF – State College (11th Round, 2008 Draft)

0 HR  5 RBI  .308 **  13 G, 52 AB, 7R, 16 H, 15 K, 3 BB, 1 SB

Wes Freeman – OF – GCL Pirates (16th Round, 2008 Draft)

1 HR  1 RBI  .200 **  3 G, 10 AB,  3R, 2 H, 3K, 2 BB,  0 SB

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

JL, nice for you to stop in, thanks.

Wow, I forgot how close these lines can fit the group:

                JONES IS BAD TO THE BONES

     www.youtube.com/watch

Why is it that Dejan is the ONLY one mentioning (twice now in post-game oneliners...see above) Paul Maholm's groin injury??  And why is it that he is out there pitching (er---attempting to pitch, and poor attempts at that) with a groin injury??  Charlie Morton missed two starts because of a "tight" hamstring.  You can't pitch through a groin injury---OBVIOUSLY.  I just don't get it.

Nine game road trip before the all-star break.  Can you say, "FREEFALL?!"

                                HEAR YE HEAR YE

                                 ANNOUNCEMENT

 Just like the Pirate front office gave a nice welocme with some very nice gifts to JHADAR when he visited, they came to see baywatch and mrs. baywatch and spend over an inning talking with baywatch.

Jim will tell you more but one hint, he now tells Pirate time.

Thanks to the pirtaes for making our out of town guests feel welcomed with big arms.

KMR

You asked the big question--if injured why pitch.  It has seemed clear for quite a while that Maholm was not pitching well and we all know he is better than he has shown, as he was earlier in the year.

@KMR

You're assuming that there is an ongoing injury to speak of

How much is too much for SaNo? Do we even know the process the teams go through to submit offers? Do we know that SaNo's guy will the Pirates last look? What if the Orioles throw $6MM at him and tell him "Say Yes or No, right now"... and the Pirates already offered, say, an agressive $4.5mm? How do we know that? I'm not sure you can fault the PIrates for scenario like that, which all else being equal, could be very likely....

$$$$$  BODY WATCH – ATTENDANCE AT MLB PARKS $$$$$

Thru 7/2/09

30. Florida……… 42 dates ** 760,578 total  **  18,109 avg.

29. Oakland……. 40 dates ** 725,096 total  **  18,127 avg.

28. PIRATES ….. 39 dates ** 720,947 total  **  18,485 avg.

27. Cleveland….. 41 dates ** 905,673 total  **  22,089 avg.

26. Toronto…...… 43 dates ** 982,117 total  **  22,839 avg.

1. NY Yanks … 38 dates ** 1,715,756 total   **   45,151 avg.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Yes, I AM assuming there is an ongoing injury that neither Paul nor the Pirates are talking about.  A few starts ago folks here were speculating that Paul must have an undisclosed injury because very suddenly he just didn't look like himself on the mound.  Then came the first quiet one-liner from Dejan confirming that fact.  So I am going to assume that the groin is an ongoing problem until Paul is Paul again.  What I don't understand is why the Pirates keep throwing him and his groin-induced SOFTBALLS out there??  It's NOT WORKING!

@Comet

My understanding is that there is no 'formal' offer submission process.  The latin american guys are free agents and can freely negotiate with whomever they please.  They just can't sign with a ballclub until after a set date, though deals may have been "inked" long before.  In short, there's no real way for us to know anything beside what is leaked by the negotiating parties.

@ Worm -

Thanks...but it seems like everyone is gearing up to be furious with Pirates if/when they don't sign SaNo. I mean, I suppose they could offer him $15mm and lock him up, but I think everyone would agree that that would be ridiculous for an unproven 16 year old kid. How much is too much? What would it take for the Orioles to sign him and have the Pirate fan base say, "Ok, you can have him. That's way too much money to pay to an unproven 16 yr old kid"?

Thats how silly usins can be sometimes.

you get to rent cars

                 I actually hope Paul is hurt, seriously. That would be justification for the way he is pitching i think, he was throwing batting practice out there yesterday.

Good morning asylum, hopefully today will go much better then yesterday. And the piece of the Twins being in on Sanchez and Capps, I'm glad to see someones interested in Capps because I sure am not anymore.

cometlittlefield

"What would it take for the Orioles to sign him and have the Pirate fan base say, "Ok, you can have him. That's way too much money to pay to an unproven 16 yr old kid"

It would take ALOT for that to happen.

A slight tweak (or whatever you would like to call it) shouldn't alter performance to the degree that Maholm is experiencing.  So either (a) it's worse than anyone is letting on, in which case a few people need their bells rung for putting him out there, including himself; (b) it's a blame-shift for poor performance as of late; or (c) some combination thereof.

If you're hurting, and it's affecting your performance, take a break.  We don't need our horses 'toughing it out' and getting their pants kicked in.

@Comet: good question, I could see an uproar if the number exceeded $4-4.5mil, given the agitation with the trades as of late.  Warranted or not, the fan base is going to tie money expenditures on a 16-year old to their anger for the McLouth/Morgan trades.

Long time reader, first time poster.

I can't believe LaRoche hit a meaningful home run. I'm concerned that we have filled our HR quota for the weekend.  

As far as the FLL airport they have some of the best signage at the luggage carousel. I love that place.

********* Adam LaRoche Trade Watch ***********

2009 Stats thru 7/2/09 for Adam LaRoche:

April:… 20 Games, 5HR, 14RBI, .269/.352/.564

May:…  26 Games, 2HR,   8 RBI, .200/.303/ .347

June:…  26 Games, 4HR, 15 RBI, .344/.423/ .559

July: …   2  Games  1HR,   2 RBI  .250/.333/ .625

.270, 12 HR, 39 RBIs  **  74 Games, 274 AB’s, 45R, 74H,  63K, 40 BB, 2 SB  * .360 OBP  .489 SLG  ** 1 Error

Note: 8 of  his 12 HR’s have come with no one on base.

Last HR = 2 run homer v. Mets 7/2/09

*********************************************

Mr. Plow

Welcome to the asylum.

As much I'd like the Pirates sign SaNo, I would not begrudge them losing him if the Orioles threw $6mm at him. We have to remember that there are other teams very interested in him. It would be troubling if we missed out by like $250,000. BUT do we know if there is a closed bidding process? i.e. top 3 teams of interest all submit closed bids at once and the highest bidder wins? Sounds cold and like Worm mentioned, we don't know outside what's been leaked....

And if the Pirates lose, I'm pretty sure we'll never know what their number is...

@ MR Plow, welcome glad to have you aboard. If you need any help loading an avatar just let us know.

...and do you think the casual fan (outside of this Blog, really) are even starkly aware of the whole SaNo thing? I'm not sure they do...alot of casual fans around my office didn't know how old Nyjer Morgan was, thought McLouth had much better stats, made fun of the Taiwanese signings, etc... so I'm thinking the SaNo outrade might not be the widespread PR outrage we might think it would be. It could be confined to this Blog and some other die-hards who aren't on it...

WOW MR PLOW !!!

You are quick!!!!

Nice AVATAR

CURRENT PIRATE STANDINGS AS OF 6.25 PST

6.0 GB OF THE BREWERS FOR NL CENTRAL

6.5 GB OF THE SF GIGANTES FOR NL WILDCARD

MAN WE COULD HAVE GAINED GROUND YESTERDAY

Back from the trip to Pittsburgh. What a great time..as always!

Some observations:

1. I still don't know why that park doesnt fill. I know the PBC is not a winning team. But the entertainment value is awesome. Wrigley is filled with a ton of fans regularly and they haven't been IN  a world series since '45. People of Pittsburgh: Enjoy your park and support your team--they WILL play better with more people in the stands.

2. I loved the Morgan trade. Lots of up side though I am a Morgan fan. We couldn't carry two leadoff hitters for long--it was actually hurting our line-up.

3. Jones has a ton of upside and looks very good (I missed his near-cycle performance yesterday).

4. I think the "plan" is still coming together nicely. I can see it fairly clearly.

5. Baywatch is a very nice guy! Thanks Jim!

6. McCutchen is lunging toward the pitcher causing all these flyouts...he still has his good stroke and it will return soon.

7.. I will be back--this time sooner than later!

comet

I think if we fail to sign Sano, and everyone start to hear everything about him like Pujols in Hanley Rimirez's body etc., they'll become very angry.

@Comet: I do not believe there is any type of 'closed' bidding in the traditional sense.  It's just a free agent negotiation... the ballplayer's agent keeps the wheels spinning amongst interested teams, essentially pitting teams against each other and trying to run the bids up.  When the wheels slow (or the ballplayer wants to take a deal, on occasion) they will ink something

Good point, Marty - retroactive anger...

I just get frustrated with the casual fans' post-event outrage. I have a friend who used to be a huge Pirates fan. After the Bay trade, he made the typical statement you hear alot, "I'm Done." And he was serious...he went from hardcore to casual fan. Stopped watching games, reading articles, maybe checked standings. His reaction to the McLouth trade was venemous, but when I put alot of it in perspective (including nearly everything discussed here: McLouth's below average post-early 2008 stats, 3 high ceiling prospects, etc.), he really had nothing to say. I believe there are ALOT of people out there like that....and they like to be outraged. I mean, what's even the point of being outraged at this point?

Thanks for the info, Dejan.  I'll stick with my opinion, though, that a groin injury, no matter how "insignificant" it's spun by parties involved, is most likely the cause of Paul's recent struggles, since it coincides with them.

...and welcome to the asylum Mr. Plow.

Mr. Plow, that's the name! That name again is Mr. Plow!

comet

I agree with everything you said there, Jason Bay was and still is my favorite major league player and I was OUTRAGED when he left, but I'll still always root for the Bucs. The McLouth trade at first got me a little angry, but once you think about we had Cutch, and McLouth is NEVER gonna have another season like last year so trade him when values the highest, just like with Nyjer. And the casual fan, who will probably erupt, and we saw many of them on here when McLouth and Nyjer got shipped off, when guys like Jack, Freddy, Grabow, and Adam get traded. But with Adam we have Jones and we can always move Alvarez to first. And also with him and Grabow they'll be fa and its better trading them for something then loosing them for nothing.

Comet - Do you work at man bar?  Let's not kid ourselves, we need Sano more than he needs us. His signing would truely legitimize the building of the Academy (Bob's Beach House), and let Comet's co-workers know that something different is happeing in how the Pirates obtain talent.  If the Nut man spent all that money building his beach house I imagine he would like to get a return as quickly as possible. While nothing is certain Sano does seem to have the best upside with this crop of players. His 4-5MM signing bonus and the construction costs associated with the Beach House would easily be justified.    

marty

I agree yet again! It's actually painful to see how well Bay is doing in Boston (although I am very happy for him) and it looks like Boston made out in the deal right now however, 2 things to consider...1.) Andy and Moss are still young, haven't fully developed yet and are showing signs of growing, and Hansen and Morris have been hurt, so we won't know for sure how the trade will look 2.) Bay will command probably $12-$15mm in FA this coming offseason and that is too much to invest in one player when there was no forseeable winning season on the horizon even with his bat.

The McLouth trade was a no brainer from my perspecitve.

Did you read FC's chat from yesterday? Maybe I'm a sucker and the whole FO is cheap and incompetent, but I believe everything Frank said about building a winner and having a plan in place. It at least appears that way on the surface.

Morning mates

@Marty -re Grabow

He probably would be a Type A FA, so even if we keep him, there is a possibility we could get something for him

Is there anyone else PBC is going after in Latin America?  On FSN the other night NH said he expected to do "very well" with signings down there

Well a slow day with no updates from DK, so

Bucco Nation (40 States in the Union)

Still looking for inmates from the following:

Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Hawaii, Minnesota, North Dakota,

Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Wyoming

Much thanks to thanks to coreybower for knocking Tennessee off the list

We do have 9 countries represented: Australia, Brazil, Canada, England, Germany, Ireland, Phillipines, Scotland and lest I forget, the good old USA

Top Ten targets in no particular order, subject to any change any inmate would like to suggest

1. Jordan Cooper (stated asking price $900K)

2. Zach von Rosenburg

3. Colton Cain (talking, asking for Bud’s permission???)

4. Trent Stevenson (talking)

5. Victor Black - Signed

6. Evan Chambers - Signed

7. Aaron Baker - Signed

8. Michael Heller (7 digits)

9. Brooks Pounders - Signed

10. Matthew Den Dekker

Strong rumors coming out of Minnesota that Sanchez, and Capps could be coming their way.  If this is the case then the Bucos must ask for Liriano in return.  This is a classic buy low sell high proposition.  It was only 2 years ago that Liriano was considered an Ace and the bucos could use a power left handed pitcher.

I would be happy if we traded anyone that wont be here in 3 years since the only hope the Pirates truly have is to compete for 2012.

Mr Plow

Welcome and thanks for coming with an avatar

Story on the Twins interest in Sanchez and Capps in the ML part 2

OK - officially time to start pontificating on who can we get from the Twins?

I would doubt Liriano...but anyone know who their top prospects are???

Comet

I am with you.  Sano is 16 year "can't miss" prospect and we have seen even older "can't miss" prospects  flame out--anyone remember Chad H?

If they sing him, fine.  If they don't, move on.  

According to DK it will still be several days until something happens so no sense playing what if now.  If he is so great why isn't every MLB in the bidding?  

Off work today and dropped the kids off at school, came back and re watched yesterdays game and I want to know is it me??? Or has MAHOLM gained some weight..He looks real bottom heavy and I looked at his thighs and I said WOW, Do you think this could be part of the problem....I am serious..

Went to the game yesterday, but unfortunately due to the rain delay, I had to leave in the eight inning.  (plus I was disgusted how they blew a five run lead and were losing).   I did see video of an after game interview with Adam La.  He had a good point in that for whatever reason sometimes they get a lead and the offense starts to coast-instead of adding on when they have the chances.  They had the chances yesterday.  And that is one of their problems.  They totally had the Mets on the ropes and didn't finish them off.  I know Maholm is probably hurt, but his pitching didn't help much.

Sat near left field.  I said this during spring training and I'll say it again:  Garrett Jones is a big man.  He takes Hinske's place as 'enforcer' if we ever get into a bench clearing brawl.

I only saw the video of Capps giving up the game winning run.  It looked like it was right over the plate -slightly down to the right. On the radio Blass said that Capps started the inning off great and then seemed to struggle..including hitting Tatis.  I've seen some of the links saying Capps may be on the trading block.  I for one don't think he is an elite closer (not enough velocity or movement of pitches) but I don't see them having a replacement for him now (not Hanrahan yet).  And please don't trade Freddie.

comet

I agree with Bay  it is painful to think of what we once had, and because I hate the Red Sox, and to see him dominating in Boston. But I couldn't be happier for him he deserves it all last year when he dominated in the playoffs, this year going to be an all-star starter for second time in hsi carreer, his chase for the A.L. RBI crown, and his chase for A.L. MVP. I think this is the only time I've ever rooted for someone with the Sox, well him and Wakefield always been a fan of his too. And I agree that is too much to pay for one player when your still a 2-3 years away from competing for a championship, now if we were competing now that'd be a much much different story. IMO Bay is one of the top 10 best players in baseball I've said that for years now and I'm glad hes getting a chance to prove it in Boston.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Biz

I was thinking that about Grabow that he may be a type A guy, so we'd at least get some compensation picks if we'd loose him to free agency.

JAL

"If they sing him, fine."

Are they going to sing to him to try and get him to sign with the Pirates? ;) hahahahahha.

At this point I couldn't care less who the Pirates trade, sign, or don't sign.  As I said yesterday, call me when the future is now.

Garret Jones and Moss should get 80% of the starts in the outfield from here on out.  D.Young is just too shaky in the field.  He may just be a great pinch hitter and super sub.

But Jones and Moss should play so we know what we have with them.  I think there is good upside with both.  And I will repeat my opinion that Jones may have been blocked with the Twins by other good players.   If he gets extended playing time it will be interesting to see how he adjusts to pitchers adjusting to him because there will be scouting reports out on him.

@ JAL - good stuff about where are the other teams at? Isn't this something up the Yankees or Red Sox alleys? Don't they at least like people to think they are the big, swingin' you-know-what's of MLB and have their hands in all of the top talent?

Best case scenario, we see SaNo in 3 years, most likely 5 years...and alot of things have to happen perfectly for him to be Hanbert Pumirez....or Alley Ramirjols...take your pick.

I would be impressed if he could walk UNDER water, though...

EXCUSES FOR NOT SIGNING SANO:

We don't need him since we have Gorkys.

Sano is really 36 years old.

He refused to work at Seven Springs in the off season.

He needed to work on his bunting.

His OPS and WHIP were below his UPS and OBP.

Comet

www.minorleagueball.com/.../minnesota-twins-top-20-pro

MLB trade rumors thinks Grabow is  a type A

www.mlbtraderumors.com/.../probable-type-a-free-agents.html

Marty

You are hired as my editor :)

be back in bit--carry on

Thanks JAL -

Well their top 4 prospects are speedy outfielders, a catcher and a pitcher with control issues....Neal is either licking his chops to add more of those guys OR thinks we have maxed out on those guys and would not identify the Twinkies as a good trading partner...

How about Capps, Grabow, and Sanchez for Aaron Hicks, Shooter Hunt, and Francisco Liriano. ;)

If JAL's list is accurate, the Pirates seem destined to trade for:

6) Jose Mijares, LHP, Grade B-: Terrific arm, erratic, has command and personality issues.

its not all that pressing because they wont be called up until after the allstar break at the earliest but notebook had our cant miss indian players as rinku dinesh and singh patel - they are actually rinku singh and dinesh patel

JAL

Hahaha ok I'll keep my open for the typos. ;)

I wonder how serious these trade talks with Minnesota are? And I read that those Twinkies had a $3M signing bonus in their offer to Mr. Sano.

wormburner--I'm one who will be agitated if they don't get Sano unless it is for some insano sum (and I don't consider $5-$6 mil insane), and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the McLouth and Morgan/Burnett trades.  The "nobody is a can't miss" line gets old.  And it justifies (badly) never paying for anyone.

How long until NH gives him a call?

www.mlbtraderumors.com/.../twins-release-luis-ayala.html

Arriba - What about Pedro Alvarez?

And like I said, you don't know what the process is and if the Pirates get a last chance to make an offer...and are you saying that no amount is too high and we should just eat the loss if he doesn't pan out? That's bad business. Remember what Derek Bell, Pat Meares, Kevin Young and Jason Kendall contracts did to this organization?

Further excuses for not signing Sano:

he may not work out

it's risky

someone outbid us

if the Yankees and Bosox don't want him we don't want him

come

"Remember what Derek Bell, Pat Meares, Kevin Young and Jason Kendall contracts did to this organization?"

Ahhhh I'd rather not!

@ Comet

Sano wouldn't be a contract situation, however, if I am right? Kindall and the rest of those contracts killed the Pirates because they had to pay up every year. This is a one time deal, and the Pirates have the money to do it.

@arriba: agreed. Unfortunately, I expect something along those lines.  Call me a pessimist, but btw all of the speaking out of both side of the mouth, and preliminary excuse-making coming from the "all-knowing", I'm already awaiting the justification for failure.

I am out for now asylum, I shall talk to you inmates later today.

Comet---Kendall's contract was for $60 million, Bell for $9M, Young for $25M or so, I think.  (I don't remember Meares' number, but it was well north of $5-$6 mil) And these were all inked almost 10 years ago.  Apples and oranges.  One of the reasons I think this is a key signing is it is a one time payment and it is at the level where we can compete with the big boys.  I also think he fits perfectly into the FO's plan and will be a big indication of if BN is willing to walk the walk.  If he works out and the Yankees sign him as a free agent down the road, at least we will have had him for 4-6 years.  

Neither of us know the process, so if that is a weakness it is a weakness both our opinions share.  

Pedro has nothing to do with it, frankly.  Without more, he is just an indication that they knew they couldn't do a Wieters/Moskos fiasco 2 years in a row.

@ WW - technically you are correct, but I am talking about the general strategy of overpaying for players...at least we eventually got smart and limited the enormous amounts of money thrown at bad players to 1 year contracts (Burnitz, Randa, etc.). Still, if you give $10mm to SaNo and he flames out, it's not a WHOLE lot different than a 2yr contract to Derek Bell. Money is money and this organization has finally achieved it's much-desired status of having "financial flexibility"

IMO Twinkies would never take on Freddie's contract

I'd keep Grabow, the only lefty we have in the pen, then offer arbitration, we can't lose, IMO

Not baseball, but Pens signed Nate Guenin, interesting, I coached him in Pony league ball, he was the best character type person I had in 14 years of coaching, a nice move

@AW - re - Meares

If I remember correctly, he was signed for something like 3 yrs, 13 million. KY was 4 for 24

Re - SaNO

If you trade Adam, what you save can pay for him??

@ Comet

You are correct that money is money regardless. However, in this case, I think it's important to understand that if the money is spent on Sano, and he turns out to be an absolute bust, the money was not wasted. I've read that signing Sano would show the Dominicans that the Pirates are for real when it comes to spending cash, and could potentially lead to additional signings. If 6 million is what it costs to establish a pipeline to the Dominican Republic and their numerous prospects, then its money well spent regardless of what Sano does.

Good point WW...there is non-economic value in signing SaNo...but there has to be a limit where it doesn't pay for itself anymore. I mean, there is a point where the rest of the league 1.) would be pi$$ed at us for driving up the value of these 16 yr old kids 2.) would laugh at us for our desperation to please a fan base. And if people say that they don't care what outsiders think, don't read all of the draft and trade analysis from outside and national publications.

WW--Bingo ;-)

@Comet: I think Scott Bora$$ and a certain number of his colleagues have already dismantled the barrier described in your first example.  With what mockery they've made of the draft and 'slot numbers' I don't think we need be concerned with driving up the value of anything in this game.

One of the amusing/fun/ interesting thing about message boards, blogs, and being a baseball fan is that you get to spend other people's money.  In regards to Sano, I have never seen him play. All I really know about him is what has been written by DK and other local writers.  So I am going to trust the FO on this one.  Does anyone on this board have a son or nephew that is 16 years old?  Can you imagine him being good enough at 16 to be given a contract by a Major League baseball team for $3-5 million?

I can't.  If the Pirates a 16 year old kid that kind of money, he has to turn into a starting player for them.  He can't fail.  It can't be money spent just to send a message to other players in Latin America.

I always try to keep in mind that we are talking about real money here.  It isn't printed by a machine whenever we need more, and there isn't an endless supply.

Here is an interesting note about the Texas Rangers (their payroll to start the season was around $68 million---which isn't exactly double the pirates')

Yahoo, citing a major league source, reported Thursday that a loan was made to Hicks Sports Group and that the amount was believed to be for less than $15 million.

The sport's central office routinely withholds $15 million to $20 million owed each team from central revenues and the sale of the Montreal Expos, and teams may borrow from that with the permission of commissioner Bud Selig.

Arriba & WW - simple question then...

Sign SaNo at all costs?

Sano's value has been established by the the Pirate organization, that is what they will pay. I am sure they would not lose him if they have to go slightly above their own slotted value system, much like a draft pick.

That is the way they do business these days and that is the correct way.

The Latin American talent is not something the Pirates can get into bidding wars for, and if they have success and the prices get driven up, count Latin America as an area that they will not be able to compete in.

If the Yankees want anyone from Latin America, there is no one going to stop them from getting that player.

marty

www.mlbtraderumors.com/.../marlins-to-sign-luis-ayala-1.html

Ayala signed with the Marlins :

As they say on Monty Python, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.  But, no other team is working on their 17th losing season and I really don't care what the league thinks.  Nobody is offering us any deals to help and doing something so the other teams don't laugh at us is just as ridiculous as doing something just to please the fan base.

I agree there is a limit (always is), but all I've said is I don't think $5-$6 mil is outrageous.  I don't know what the limit is.

to anyone watching last night's game: when DY got tossed last night for "arguing without saying anything", did JR make any attempt at protecting his player by saying something to the umpire?

Anyone recall a few years ago when the Mets signed Pedro Martinez, and they felt it would have an impact in the DR?  Then they attracted Beltran mostly because of it.   I agree on that premise with Sano.  You also can figure if Sano is as good as advertised (anyone remember Freddie Adu from soccer), then you may get players that wish to follow his path or potentially play with him.

The Twins won't spend a certain amount, the Orioles may.  One question though, and I don't live down there, so I have no idea.. why don't the Red Sox, Yankees and Dodgers have academies themselves in DR?

Thundercrack--I wouldn't have spent $14 million of BN's money on Morris.  ;-)

Comet--simple answer---no, but I don't think they should lose him over a million or 2.  Remember, they saved that much by picking Sanchez.

Back at ya:  Do you think that if the PBC internal value on him is $4 million and Baltimore offers $4.5, and they have a chance to outbid that they should say "we're done?"

The facility the Pirates just opened shows Latin America thy are serious.  Signing other players will show that also--not any specific player

I'll take Kevin Millwood in a salary dump.  Hicks house of cards seems to be falling faster then Nuttings.

JR did come out yesterday when DY was talking with the ump.  It really wasn't a heated argument.  I didn't even realize he got thrown out.   From what it sounds like, the ump thought DY drew a line with his bat.  Maybe when the ump told that to JR, he just figured there was no use in arguing.  

WSB

I think Pedro may have helped a little in attracting Beltran to the Mets.

But my guess is that a lot of $$$$$$$$$  helped more.

Any thoughts on the Cuba Defector that the Yankees supposedly signed?

I have a question;

Do the Pirates bring players to the academies that are not signed and train them.

The reason this is important is because if we do, the Dodgers and Red Sox could simply wait till we train them before swooping in and grabbing them off, that would give them a better look at what they are getting.

@ Arriba:

"Do you think that if the PBC internal value on him is $4 million and Baltimore offers $4.5, and they have a chance to outbid that they should say "we're done?""

Absolutley - if the Pirates lose out on SaNo, and the difference is $500K, and it comes out that they had a chance to match or exceed that....then I will be royally pi$$ed (but never "done"!)

"I don't think $5-$6 mil is outrageous"

if you make $100k a year (which is a pretty decent amount of money to make) you would have to work 50-60 years to make that in your lifetime. you're saying that giving that kind of money UP FRONT to a 16 year old kid who may or may not pan out is reasonable? i mean, this doesn't even count what you would be paying him in his contract in the case that he did play as well as you would want. and i think that the record of MLB draft proves that guessing about a young player is exactly that, a guess. would you wager that kind of money on a guess?

The Yankees and Red Sox aren't going to pay for Sano, because they can let a team like us or Minnesota take the financial risk and just trade a few prospects for him in five years if he turns out to be any good.

The goalpost moving on here is astounding.  I remember during the draft being lectured that the reason for taking Sanchez twenty spots too high was to save money for Sano.  I'm sure once he signs elsewhere, the excuse will be that we need to save money for the above-slot draft picks.  When most or all of them go to college, it'll be something else.  

A large portion of our fan base has what amounts to battered wife syndrome.  The worse we're treated, the more we accept the propoganda.

WhyStan--Someone on here yesterday said that the Yankees, Bosox, etc don't have to risk the money on signing young players in Latin America because they have the wherewithal to sign the free agents with proven track records.  (And, of course that doesn't always work our either).  That seems reasonable to me and also is a reason I feel strongly about this despite  not knowing anymore about Sano than anyone else here.  This is the area where we can compete.  Sure, it's risky, but how old was Roberto when the Dodgers got him?  17? (No, I'm not saying he's another Roberto, although the Dodgers apparently paid a $10,000 signing bonus + $5,000 salary to him in the early to mid-fifties)

From DK's Twitter:

"Pirates, Twins not discussing Sanchez"

@ Comet

No, not at all costs. I just think the Pirates should place a value on Sano that they absolutely will not go beyond, and that the value should include more than just what they project Sano to be.

If this signing truly will make other Dominican prospects gravitate to the Pirates, or at least be open to the idea, then that value should be heavily factored in as well.

If, and only if, the Orioles or another team outbid the Pirates value on signing Sano, then so be it. But if the team simply outbids the value that the Pirates are placing on Sano's actual playing ability, then I say shame on them. Opportunity lost.

Comet-I strongly doubt we'll ever hear about the actual offer. Someone will try and save face..

I don't recall the Pirates saying the reason for taking Sanchez was to save money for Sano.  I thought their reason / strategy was to spend the money 'saved' on the #1 pick and spread it to other lower draft picks.

Pipecock,

A team like the Bucs HAS to make those kind of calculated risks, especially when you consider what $5-6M gets you in the free agent market.

pipecock--if we were dealing in your and my world I would totally agree with you.  But we're dealing in the almost fantasy world of baseball.  Would you risk $125 million on a proven talent, Arod, or would you rather take a chance at $5-$6 million on someone who has the chance to be an elite talent?  I realize "neither" is a valid response.  But we're talking about a certain market, where the top guy was paid $4.5 mil last year and the second best talent this year already has gotten $3 mil.  This is Monopoly money.

does the twit say if the pirates and twins are talking about Capps?

Hold On!  Just to be clear,  in my previous post I was not referring to DK as a twit  :-)    I am not clear on all the new techno lingo

i think a calculated risk is exactly what the FO is trying to do. they make a decision about what they think he is worth, and stick to it.

comparing $5-6m in signing a 16 year old with the free agent market is a pretty silly thing to do. not only are you paying this guy's bonus, but you have to have all levels of the organization working with him for at least 5 years, plus any salary negotiated to actually pay him for playing in that time period. all BEFORE he even steps on a MLB field.

i think the best way to go about it is to set a price and not go above it. falling for that "well i'll just outbid the next guy" line of thinking is how you end up paying way too much for something on ebay. except that tying up too much money will REALLY handcuff this organization at this point in time.

Thundercrack,

What I posted was the entirety of the post.  No mention of Capps.

Leadoff- according to the Twins site, they had Sano at their facility.  

This is a good discussion.. guys at the academies to poach from others?

Arriba Wilver:

it may be Monopoly money for an organization like the Yankees. who else was bidding for A-Rod when the Yanks resigned him? how many teams were out there beating down Manny's door this offseason? even if we were a more successful team drawing our maximum number of paying customers, we could never be as frivolous with money as those mega-market teams. we have to be smart. being smart sometimes involves letting other people pay stupid amounts of money for players who aren't really worth it.

Pipecock- I'm thinking that if Sano is as good as advertised, then he could be a Pirate within 3 1/2 years. He most likely will be stateside by 18.

Constantino

DK has said repeatedly that the money for Latin America is whole separate entity from what is designated for the amateur draft. One has nothing to do with the other

FSF--A-men

WhyStan,

Can't speak to the Sox and Yanks but the Dodgers have had an academy in the DR for more than 20 years.  

losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/.../index.jsp

Good point, Pipecock...great name by the way...and Thundercrack makes a similar point...

This is all funny money to us...it's real money to other folks.

If SaNo doesn't pan out and we have to throw more money at someone else to try and win faster and we continue to throw good money after bad...

Getting back into a cycle like that would be disasterous...

I've seen people try to get out of a bad position by spending more and it invariably leads to catastrophe...

The Pirates are right to have an internal value on something and if the track to getting it is a small standard deviation from that, go for it....if it's waaaay off, chalk to up to giving it the good old college try and put your resources towards other areas that could make your team better.

per mlbtraderumors.com:

"The O's have decided Sano's worth a certain amount, but, obviously did not disclose the number."

Seems NH's approach may not be so crazy after all...

pipecock--the point of comparing it to free agency is twofold: (1) the sums we are talking about are astronomical, and (2) we can't get anything in free agency approaching $5-$6 million.  Adam makes $7 mil this year and he isn't even going to be a Type A free agent.  This is a bonus, not a salary. It's the cost of doing business IMO.  

WhyStanBelinda - in 3.5 years, he would be what, 19? how many 19 year olds are in MLB? i know there are very very few. how many of those were highly touted signings? it just seems to me that the highly regarded prospects at this young age don't pan out in baseball far more than in any other professional sports.

Great discussion, folks...everyone have a happy and safe 4th weekend...

The Comet is heading back out into space....

If I'm a valet for Sano, can I earn 60K?

Constantino

I remember during the draft being lectured that the reason for taking Sanchez twenty spots too high was to save money for Sano.  I'm sure once he signs elsewhere, the excuse will be that we need to save money for the above-slot draft picks.  When most or all of them go to college, it'll be something else.  

_________________________________

I don't remember the Pirates saying the draft had anything to do with Sano.

Your making up your own scenario. The Pirates never made any excuses for anything, much less losing Sano.  Reasons for moves are not necessarily excuses. Some of them are sound business decisions.

>>Just like the Pirate front office gave a nice welocme with some very nice gifts to JHADAR when he visited, they came to see baywatch and mrs. baywatch and spend over an inning talking with baywatch.<<

Hey, Drew came from Tampa and I came (twice) from Virginia. All I got was a sunburn in the bleachers in April and rained on in June. All Drew got was to see the Pirates Charities sign from both sides.

Maybe Drew and I are the next regulars who get traded.  ;-)

And,by the way, I have purchased some really nice items outrageously outbidding people on Ebay. ;- )  But I only do it after I have watched for awhile on similar items and know that if I really want the item, that is what I am going to have to do.

@Thundercrack - re -I don't recall the Pirates saying the reason for taking Sanchez was to save money for Sano.  I thought their reason / strategy was to spend the money 'saved' on the #1 pick and spread it to other lower draft picks.

Thats my understanding as well, also they chose Sanchez as they did not believe anyone was worth 4-5 million to sign

Re - SaNO, IMO, if we can get close to cashola, Gayo's relationship with him will be the difference maker

Constantino,

As stated by Thundercrack, the Bucs never alluded to a finacial connection between Sanchez and Sano.  Their determination was that the talent gap between Sanchez and what else was avaialble at the fourth pick was not that great therefore the slot savings could be spread across the remainder of the draft.  that's what they appear to be doing.

Also, your theory about the richer teams passing on signing prospects like Sano and leaving their development to others and then trading prospects when they get good seems flawed to me.  Do they not also have to have signed and developed those prospects that they eventually trade?  Seems like they would want to find and develop their own as well so they can use them to acquire proven ML talent when necessary.

Maybe I just missed your point.

I know, Smoky, but I don't buy it.  It's all coming out of the same pot in the end.

Also, regarding signing bonus for LA players

Is the $$ all paid at one time, or spread over a few years?

Pirates are also in the mix for Ervin Santana's brother.  Hopefully, that arrives with a little better mechanics and less injury prone.

In regards to Sano, I guess the best case scenario is that he does become the next Hanley Ramerez (sp?) and plays for the Pirates major league team for 10 years.  The worst case scenario could be that he gets $4million from the Pirates and winds up a bust --or as he gets older becomes bigger and less athletic...he is only 16 now.  Or he gets the money and gets fat & lazy.  ( i don't know the kid).  If the worst case scenario happens people will probably forget what a "great gamble" it was for the Pirates to send $4million,  and just criticize the team for not taking the money and spending it on a free agent like Rocco Baldelli....or spend it on the major league draft.     I don't really know what they should do but I trust their judgment and scouts on this one.

Pipecock,

You're exactly right, IMO, about the organization's approach to Sano.  They've determined what the reasonable bar is for signing him and they'll go that high.  That's where you have to be dependent on your scouts and their assessment of the talent.  That's also why it's important to pay those people more and why I'm glad to see the team do so.

I think NH has been consistent across all levels in that approach.  He has also assigned a value to everyone on the 40 man roster thus the comments about no one being untouchable.  If the return being offered is higher than the assigned value, you make the deal.  It's a smart, sytematic way to rebuild the organization.  

And by the way, good morning everyone from sunny Southern California.  

I have no interest in Sano...as we trade away our ML caliber talent, should I be pacified by signing a player we will not see until 2013 at the earliest - assuming he develops at all?  I can't embrace the attitude of "sure we are going to have another rough few years, but this Dominican kid may be solid for us in 2015".  

Lets spend a few of those dollars on Adam , he is a solid all-around 1B.  Payroll dictates that we will never assemble a great pitching staff, which makes fielding a good defensive team that much more important.

I don't think Constantino was saying the FO made the Sano/Sanchez connection.  I believe he was referring to other bloggers making the connection, which is certainly true.

My concern is that the internal value may be unreasonably low because the market has apparently moved.  There is such a thing as being behind the market.

I said last weekend when the Morgan/Lastings trade first came up that I was comfortable leaving that evaluation up to Neal.  I have more concern on $ issues.  He doesn't control that and it certainly has to factor into the internal value they place on Sano.  If they can't risk $1-$2 million on someone who is supposed to be a potential elite talent, then they have more problems than any of us think.

Hey, G-man---nice to finally meet you.  I like to golf, too. :-)

I have to agree with something DK said a while ago.  If the Bucs fail to sign Sano it can be detrimental to the whole Domenican operations. Elite talent down there that shows interest in your team and not coming through in the end only looks bad to next years elite talent. They need to make this signing to compliment the new academy.

Richie Hebner- This is the best time to trade away Adam. In the offseason he's going to command more than 10 Mill. which to a team like the Pirates is alot for someone whose track record is turning it on after the AS break. If you can move him for someone who is in the Show and a couple of prospects I think you got to pull the trigger. I don't think Adam is in the clubs long term plans, especially with guys like Jones, Pierce and possibly a move to 1st for Alverez coming up.

Arriba,

Good point on the budget and my apologies to Constantino if I misread his intent.

It may not be a case of not being willing to risk an additional $1M - $2M on Sano but rather how much of your total FA budget are they willing to spend on one prospect.  In other words if they allocated $8M (my number not theirs) toward that purpose, do they want to spend 60% or more on one player?  I'd guess not.

Just one more perspective.

@Arriba Wilver wrote re: Morning links: McCutchen aims high

on Jul 3, 2009 1:20 PM

Hey, G-man---nice to finally meet you.  I like to golf, too. :-)

___________

We are looking for a 4th player but you have to be at least 6'0 to play golf with me at 6'7, Uglyken at 6'0 and G-Man at what 6'3 or 4?

Arriba -

>>Hey, G-man---nice to finally meet you.  I like to golf, too.<<

It was equally nice meeting you, too. You, mad, Uken and I need to put together a foursome next time I'm in town.

Arriba -

Re a golf outing in Pittsburgh for you, madturk, Uglyken & me:

Maybe we could talk Plenty of Hope into caddying for us. :-)  It would be cool to hear her shout stuff like:

"Attababy" if one of us sank a birdie putt or

"We have OUT OF BOUNDS!"

mad -

>>We are looking for a 4th player but you have to be at least 6'0 to play golf with me at 6'7, Uglyken at 6'0 and G-Man at what 6'3 or 4?<<

Actually, I'm 6'6". We were both sitting down when we were talking. That's why I only looked 6'0" to you. :-)

When it comes down to it, an organization needs high-impact players in order to contend for a title.  Sano is a risk, obviously, but the Bucs lack high impact players in their organization.

As for those who say he won't be in the majors for 5 or 6 years, so what?  Every team has to look forward.  The teams currently at the top aren't ignoring the future either.  Successful teams pay attention to every level of the organization.  (The Red Sox have already committed $3.75M in Latin American bonuses, for example.  I understand they are on a different financial standing, but they didn't get where they did solely by buying free agents.)  If the goal for the Bucs is to be competitive year in and year out, they have to look everywhere, whether it's players in the minors with other orgs, college and high school players in the draft, and 16 year-olds playing in Latin America.

Socal,

The Bucs committed $2M to Latin America, but obviously Sano would be an exception.

Former,

Thanks for the $2M figure!  

Agree with you on the Bucs need to beat every bush for talent.  NuHo and I discussed the same thing in another thread.  I applaud the Taiwanese signings and also give them credit for delving into India looking for new talent sources.  

We'll see how it plays out.

G-man and Mad--I wouldn't have even suggested it after meeting just the two of you.  I'd be afraid you guys would step on me by accident or I'd get a stiff neck talking to you.  But once I met Ken, he's in my ballpark.  I'm 5'11" in my spikes. I thought of PoH, but then we'd have to drag a bed around the course to hide under.

FSN--I agree with your numbers, but it got me to thinking. If the draft pocket and the latin american pocket are totally separate, is the latin american pocket $2 million and the draft pocket "in the top 5 in all of baseball?"  If that's the case, is there a whole other pocket for "the special circumstance" of signing Sano or do they borrow from the draft pocket?  It sure isn't coming out of the separate pocket of $2 million for latin america.

socal

I have read, I think DK wrote it, that the 2 mill would be added to for special players.  It is not hard line

Oops--FSF not Fox Sports Network

JAL,

Thanks for clarifying.  That's actually good to hear and encouraging even if it doesn't result in securing Sano.  It's still an upgrade in attitude and a change in direction from previous years.  

Let's hope for the best.  Sano would really energize the troops across the Pirate Nation.

In Neal We Trust.....

All,

Given the relationship between Sano and Gayo, is there any indication that the Pirates would have the courtesy of a last, best offer?

the ants have marched

============================

Game post up now...

Arriba -

>>I thought of PoH, but then we'd have to drag a bed around the course to hide under.<<

That is SOOO funny. Have a Hap Cap.  __/_H_\

Gotta run now to the movies. See everyone tonight.

G-Man--thanks for the Hap Cap--my first!