Morning links: Chatting up the trades

@DK , TRULY AMAZING, HOW DO U DO IT MY FRIEND, THANKS

@Doc wrote re: Another trade, another Pirates win

on Jun 30, 2009 11:15 PM

Madturk.... what is Cutch 1 for his last 20?

______

Not real sure what he has or has not done in the last 20 at bats.  Just watching him in the first Cibs game and last night he is starting to chase to many out of the strike zone is all.  

@Dmac

I must ahve missed it. (one ball in RF)  But limiting them was just as good in a tight game..  ;-)

I don't know, DK...no Q & A OR Notebook?   I don't know how I'll get through my day!  (I'm Kidding!  I thought my job kept me on my toes...you rock!)

@Mad...I understand.  DY did a good job cutting that ball off too...saved the runner from taking extra bases.  He's getting better.  But they had him crossed up at the plate.

Well I am out for the night.  

Hope to see the broom avatar from Maz tomorrow.

Madturk?? Why a broom avatar?? I vaguely remember the Bucs losing Monday.

Maybe the broom is for all the Yankee prospects we've been sweeping up the last 11 months and dumping them on the Pirates ship.

potential lineup

1. cutch

2. sanchez (ad laroche)

3. tabata

4. alvarez

5. doumit

6. millage

7. 1b  

8, ss

9. lincoln

i meant andy

and if you still have adam and jack?

@DK, thanks for the effort you put into amazing coverage of these, um, interesting times.

If NH has made 50 moves, I wholeheartedly agree with 49 of them, and this is the first one I disagree with, and this one is terrible.

Neat story on mental health in the WSJ.  As someone with an anxiety disorder, I can see how people are 1000% legitimately DL'ed and crippled with this for long periods of time.  This reflects a general trend in medicine and health care, if not delayed by 5-10 years in a professional sports environment with a testosterone-fueled lidocaine-it-up and play culture, that recognizes the mind and body as not necessarily mutually exclusive.  The article didn't mention Grienke, who was placed on the 60 day DL in 2006 with social anxiety disorder, and who has put up one of the most amazing starts to a season in my memory.  But a good analysis of baseball catching up to the medical community in at least one aspect . . . finally.

Good story on anxiety disorder.This one hits home with myself.I know people think this is a weakness,I can assure you it is not.I have a problem with which I won't get into,but I'm happy to hear there are others who have gotten treatment for it.Nice to know I'm not the only one.

maz, try celexa.  it takes away anxiety well.  it is also supposed to help you keep your energy.

Pirates end June with a winning record of 14-13. The first winning record in June since 1996. Pitching and defense is carrying this team and when we get Doumit back in the lineup and hopefully Milledge also adding some pop I for one am getting pretty excited about what we might accomplish the rest of the year.

Good morning inmates near and far. DK thanks for all your good work on these trade days.  I think you'll be busy in July too.  I havent't looked yet, who is pitching tonight. Smoky, thanks for your comment, can you find that stat each month?  A question for Joey Bats.. We all enjoy your attendence  stats, is there a location to find the minor league stats too? Go Bucs.

For all of you hardcore baseball people out there, if you haven't heard of this site, might want to put into your favorites: http://retrosheet.org/

I picked this up from DK's link to the Olbermann story. Thanks much.

Cut and paste from Smizik's piece today.

emoneypitt wrote re: Pirates way: Present be damned

on Wed, Jul 1 2009 2:07 AM

I have to wonder then, since Grabow is the only left-handed reliever left in the Pirates bullpen, if he is still a trade candidate at the deadline?

I have to think that the Pirates will keep him unless they get a "blown away" offer. Also, I've heard that he's the only player that the Pirates would get a Type A comp pick in next year's draft if he signs with another team next season.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not going to be able to attend the chat today and it's too early to post Q's there so I'm hoping this can be answered.

smoky burgess -

Respectfully, NH is blowing the team up.

He obviously does not share your enthusiasm regarding the rest of the year.

Milledge doesn't even join the big league club.

At this point, 2 July 2009, the big league club is actually weaker AFTER the trade.

NH is throwing dice.

Who cares anymore who they trade...I don't.

They oughta be ashamed of themselves - they aren't even trying to put the best team on the field anymore.

Anybody who spends $10 on a ticket is a mug.

Where's the blogger who always likes to say the Pirates are under no obligation to provide the ticket buyer with a win?

True, but I believe they are under at least an ethical obligation to put the best product they can on the field.

Just wanted to say before I sign off:

Thanks for all of the hard work yesterday Dejan. Good job as always.

I have a confession to make -

I actually hope they trade Jack, Freddy and AdLa, and lose 100.

I don't know why, but I do.

I have followed this team since the 60's, gotten thrown out of class for listening to games on my transistor radio, got tossed out of Forbes for sneaking in, skipped school to go to ball games at TRS, stayed up past midnight on school nights to listen to games from Dodger Stadium, cried like a baby when Bob Moose threw that wild pitch...

The only baseball team I've ever followed. I love them., in a love-hate sort of way.

But honest to goodness, I hope they lose 100 this year.

I guess that's why they call this an asylum.

I'm getting a tattoo.

On the knuckles of my right hand, the word L-O-V-E.

On the knuckles of my left hand, the words H-A-T-E.

@George: Take a chill pill. If you've followed the Bucs as long as you say you have, then you certainly know that they have been as low as they can get (and it's not this year's team). NH and the FO may have indeed given up on this year's product, but I for one, think they've given us a brighter future. I find myself agreeing more and more with Bob Smizik (go figure), that NH is a risk taker unlike any GM we've had in the recent past. Being passive has gotten us nowhere. I applaud the FO's boldness and foresight. If it costs us this year to ensure a better future---WHY NOT!

good day from a sweltering london.

tip o the hat to Dorf for acting like a man and pitching like a pitcher. the anti-snell. all heck breaking out around him, he collects himself and fires a zero. bless him, we needed that. that's maturity. freddy shows up, game over. we only scored three, which isn't enough to get to .500.

if someone had said at the beginning of the season we would have had an outfield of morgan, mcclouth and hinske and all would have reasonable years, with morgan a break out one, and then said by july1 we would have traded them all I would have said NO WAY...yet it has happened and I don't necessarily feel so bad.

don't discount jones- we could very well have mill, clutch, and jones in there soon. or moss. or young, but my intuition says adLa, jack, young, a catcher and another pitcher are gone....soon.

it's also clear the FO does not worry about 16 or 17 losing seasons- they deal anyone from the former regime to fit their needs- we'll see.

but for now

LETS GO BUCS

Mr. Radio Wave, (Attendance in minor league sites)

Here's  a spot where you can get yesterdays' and *** attendance by location and and league. It is on the MLB site...then drill down to the MiLB site ... I'm not sure if my link will be "live" ...but copy /paste it into your browser ...look for the ATTENDANCE button under each league

web.minorleaguebaseball.com/.../stats

On the trades yesterday...

Hinske trade = moving deck chairs around on the Titanic, ...err should I say on "The Majestic"

Milledge trade = let's hope our psychiatrists & psychologists are better than THEIRS. We don't have a very good track record, so far,  in getting through to Mr. Snell.

The Trades as Covered by the Blogs

Bucs Dugout-Bits From the Trades

www.bucsdugout.com/.../bits-from-the-trades

Bucs Dugout--Pirates Trade Eric Hinske to Yankees, Morgan and Burnett to Nats

www.bucsdugout.com/.../pirates-trade-eric-hinske-to

Bucs Dugout--Is Jack Wilson Paying Attention?

www.bucsdugout.com/.../is-jack-wilson-a-bad-sport

Why Gavs--Eric Hinske traded to the Yankees

whygavs.com/.../eric-hinske-traded-to-the-yankees.html

Why Gavs--Lastings Milledge for Nyjer Morgan: an offer we couldn't refuse

whygavs.com/.../lastings-milledge-for-nyjer-morgan-an-offer-we-couldnt-refuse.html

Pittsburgh Lumber Company--Morgan, Burnett dealt to Nats for Milledge, Hanrahan

mvn.com/.../morgan-burnett-dealt-to-nats-for-milledge-hanrahan.html

Bucs Trade Winds--Hinske, Morgan, and Burnett Traded

www.bucstradewinds.net/.../hinske-morgan-and-burnett-traded.html

Bucs Trade Winds--More on Nyjer

www.bucstradewinds.net/.../more-on-nyjer.html

Raise the Jolly Roger--So long, Tony Plush

raisethejollyroger.com/.../so-long-tony-plush

Raise the Jolly Roger--Reviewing the Trades

raisethejollyroger.com/.../reviewing-the-trades

Mondesi's House--ABOUT THIS LASTINGS MILLEDGE CHARACTER

mondesishouse.blogspot.com/.../about-this-lastings-milledge-character_30.html

Mondesi's House--HINSKE DEALT TO YANKEES

mondesishouse.blogspot.com/.../hinske-dealt-to-yankees.html

Hyzdu Headquarters--Know When to Hold Them, When to Fold Them

hyzduhq.blogspot.com/.../know-when-to-hold-them-when-to-fold.html

The Green Weenie--And Away They Go

oldbucs.blogspot.com/.../and-away-they-go.html

In Clemente Weather-New Look Buccos

inclementeweather.blogspot.com/.../new-look-buccos.html

Bucco Fans--Eric Hinske Traded to Yankees

www.buccofans.com/.../eric-hinske-traded-to-yankees.html

Bucco Fans--Pirates trade Morgan/Burnett for Milledge/Hanrahan

www.buccofans.com/.../pirates-trade-morganburnett-for.html

Bucco fans--Post Trade Thoughts

www.buccofans.com/.../pirates-notebook-post-trade-thoughts.html

Viva Derek Bell--Two Cents on the Trades

vivaderekbell.blogspot.com/.../2-cents-on-trades.html

Fan House--Nationals, Pirates Make Deal Official

mlb.fanhouse.com/.../nationals-pirates-close-to-trade

My first thoughts on hearing that the Pirates had acquired Lastings Milledge was that Ian Snell had found his philosophical soul mate and his road roommate.  

I enjoyed watching Nyjer because of his infectious enthusiasm and passion for the game.  I will readily admit that I wasn't crazy about his base running and other aspects of his game.

As a fan, it's far easier to see a jerk leave than a nice guy. Jason Bay was not only a talented ballplayer, but he was a nice guy, too.  That trade crushed my 10 year old's heart.  The Bay jerseys are still hanging in the closet; the autographed poster of Bay (bought with his own money) still hanging over his bed.  We wince every time we watch SportsCenter and see Jay Bay hit another HR.  

I also remember being mad at Dave Littlefield years ago for trading Brian Giles for Jason Bay.  Then I found out that Giles was really a jerk - and the guy we got was a good citizen and turned out to be a good ballplayer, too.

When we found nate to be of late with us,  some thought they gave up on this year.  Even going through his first slump( if anyone form the pirates is reading  check his bat speed)

the team is actually out producing than before the trade.  They may not have traded for a center fielder better, but that is not how all trades work.

I doubt either Nate or Mr. Morgan make the catch that Clutch made last night.

Point is:  before we say they have given up on the season lets see how we pan out with Mr. Morgan gone.

Morning Links Part 2

Eric Hinske has plenty of sitting and waiting ahead

news.bostonherald.com/.../srvc=home&position=recent

Play by Play Pitch by Pitch of Last Night's game

scores.espn.go.com/.../playbyplay

Cold day in June: Bucs have winning month

www.timesonline.com/.../doc4a4ade033672a869620171.txt

Pittsburgh vs. Chicago

www.cbssports.com/.../MLB_20090701_CHC@PIT

India-born Pirates pitchers ready to debut

www.google.com/.../ALeqM5geuX0hACCgeKjKYhm631Qxm01GrA

Royals and Pirates present parallels and problems to be solved

www.examiner.com/x-9631-Kansas-City-Royals-Examiner~y2009m6d30-Royals-and-Pirates-present-parallels-and-problems-to-be-solved

Another Look: Ex-Bucs GM Cam Bonifay

www.timesonline.com/.../doc4a4ade53d1b57031686082.txt

I can understand the players in the clubhouse being upset by another trade, but I don't really understand when a guy like Burnett says this:

"We don't know what direction we're going in. It's not about talent; it's about keeping guys around who you want to go out and battle with. That's what we're not seeing right now."

It isn't about having as many of your friends on the team and all getting along & having a good time.  It is about winning.  The direction they are trying to go in is one they would like to produce more wins with.

I will say this, if they trade jack with no clear major league ready short stop, they gave up.

There will have to be a three way deal or another deal inked at the same time.

Young will become a 2nd. baseman or an american leaguer.

I think you will see some platooning with these new guys brought up to see which of those who can play first will hit enough in case or when we need a replacement.

To me, it is sad about Adam.  I think he has stepped up to become a team leader of level headedness.  I think he has worked hard at overcoming his adversty.  I think he honestly wants to remain a Bucco.  Knowing his future, his comments yesterday are commenable.  Adam, you are a true good guy.

THE OFFICIALLY UNOFFICIAL PBC BLOGS AND MLB LINKS:  Non Trade Edition

Moskie Madness-July

piratesprospect.mlblogs.com/.../july.html

The Green Weenie--Steady Freddy and the Big O Come Through

oldbucs.blogspot.com/.../steady-freddy-and-big-o-come-through.html

Pittsburgh Lumber Company-Ohlendorf Frustrates Cubs on Momentous Day

mvn.com/.../ohlendorf-frustrates-cubs-on-momentous-day.html

Sandlot Swashbucklers--Lincoln Struggles in 2nd AAA Start as Indians Lose A Wild One

mvn.com/sandlotswashbucklers

Wilbur Miller's Pirate Player Profiles

users.rcn.com/.../pirateprofiles.htm

MLB Transactions

www.cbssports.com/.../transactions

Is This Thing On?--Good-bye Garrett Jones...WHAT A DAY!

indyindians.mlblogs.com/.../good-bye_garrett_jones.html

Why Gavs--Pirates 3 Cubs 0

whygavs.com/.../game-77-pirates-3-cubs-0.html

I may be contradicting my earlier post, but I must admit I am going to miss Nyjer.  I wish he was a better ballplayer, but I always appreciated his enthusiasm (which there needs to be more in the major leagues) and liked him for the simple fact that he really seemed to enjoy playing the game (more of that is needed too).

I think there is tremendous upside for the Bucs with this trade.  We need to hope Milledge has grown up and mature.  I'm surprised with included Burnett in the trade.  He wasn't spectacular but he was developing into a decent lefty out of the pen.

********* Adam LaRoche Trade Watch ***********

Trade deadline is coming up quickly ….

2009 Stats thru 6/30/09 for Adam LaRoche:

April:… 20 Games, 5HR, 14RBI, .269/.352/.564

May:…  26 Games, 2HR,   8 RBI, .200/.303/ .347

June:…  26 Games, 4HR, 15 RBI, .344/.423/ .559

July: …

.271, 11 HR, 37 RBIs  **  72 Games, 266 AB’s, 43R, 72H,  63K, 39 BB, 2 SB  * .360 OBP  .485 SLG  ** 1 Error

Note: 8 of  his 11 HR’s have come with no one on base.

*********************************************

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I surely left something out but hopefully covered the basics

Thundercrack wrote re: Morning links: Chatting up the trades

on Wed, Jul 1 2009 12:00 PM

I can understand the players in the clubhouse being upset by another trade, but I don't really understand when a guy like Burnett says this:

"We don't know what direction we're going in. It's not about talent; it's about keeping guys around who you want to go out and battle with. That's what we're not seeing right now."

Well, I'll be a blue nosed gopher,  That is one enlighting vision.

I have been a fan of sean's since his arrival, but that is an attitude that is new to me and makes me rethink.

@ Thundercrack

Sean Burnett doesn't know what direction "we are going in?"

I'd say it's slightly southeast for about 3.5 to 4 hours.

I actually applaud Neal Huntington's comment that the PBC is not about building a team filled with friends (I am paraphrasing) or at least primarily "nice guys."

While character is important - particularly the part that helps one overcome adversity - this is not about ensuring that the atmosphere will be one of building long-term relationships.

Ask anyone who has won a Worls Series about the bonds that are built from winning it all: that truly "binds" a group of players together, no matter what their individual personalities may be.

Burnett's quote, made in the emotion of the moment, seems to point to the notion that they felt they were "in this together" rather than particularly talented or at least a willingness to "go to battle together" was more important than being able to play the game at a higher level.

Side note: As the season goes on, I am starting to like what I see from Ohlendorf more and more.

Jose

Oh wow......check this out......just when you thought it couldn't get any more exciting!

"The Pirates' two Indian-born pitchers, Rinku Singh and Dinesh Patel, will make their professional debuts for Bradenton this week, according to director of player development Kyle Stark".

@ DK: Great work yesterday! You absolutely deserve to take a day off today!

Respectfully,

Jose

DK,

First, thanks for the timely and effective coverage yesterday. - I'm sure you maintained a hectic pace.

As far as rest is concerned.....I'm a little old school and not very sympathetic. I know you worked hard, we all work hard. That comes with the territory. I say suck it up and get back in the saddle for another day of fun.

The best don't rest. Ask Cal Ripken what he thought about rest.

;-)

Millidge doesn't have the same talent as Barry Bonds, but Barry wasn't the nicest guy either.

Hostage

Story on that in my Morning links part 2

@ Hostage: Maybe there will be "wall to wall" coverage of this important step forward in developing championship-caliber players with upsides...

Curious to see how they do actually...

Is it just me, or does it seem like every player on the 25 man roster seems to be an outfielder or capable of playing same?

Jose

OK, here is my take on things after yesterday......

Although it was always my preference to build around the players that we had (Bay, McLouth, etc), obviously it is too late for that now, that horse has left the barn, so let's look forward.

With the additions of Milledge and Hanrahan yesterday, Nealboy acquired two more fairly young players with upside and when combined with some of the other prospects on the farm including Alvarez, Tabata, Lincoln, Hernandez.....you can now see a flicker of light at the end of the tunnel.

Now, here is the rub. Based on the comments by Wilson and other veterans it is clear the bridge has been burned with the vets who were once told they were the core that would be built around. I must say, they have a fair point. Under this owner and two front offices, they were never truly given a real and legitimate chance to compete. But while they have a valid point or not, we are where we are now and the PBC cannot afford to have disgruntled veterans around and getting in the ears of the younger players now.

So with that, even though I would not have preferred this direction last season or even at the beginning of this season, based on where we are today.....I think Adam laRoche, Freddy Sanchez, Jack Wilson, and John Grabow need to go. It would benefit their careers to get a fresh start and hopefully an opportunity at winning, and it will help the PBC to rid themselves of their disappointment and to give younger players opportunities. Besides those 4 players, they might even want to consider moving Doumit and Capps depending on the return.

IMO if by moving LaRoche, Sanchez, Wilson, Grabow, Doumit, and Capps they can obtain the following:

- A top flight shortstop prospect

- A top flight second base prospect

- A lefty bat w/ pop for either RF or 1B

These are MUST haves.

Then Neal may as well finish what he started and blow up the rest of what remains......

I hate to lose what I consider to be the best defensive middle infield the NL, if not all of MLB, but ship has sailed and provided Neal can get quality young replacements, I think this is the only appropriate direction at this point......

And on a side note, I am interested to see what Jones and Salazar bring to the party the rest of the way out.......

Nuttinghostage out.

It is July so time for an update on the First Annual PBC Blog Pirate Season Record Contest

Pirates stand at 36 and 41--a .468 clip.  That translates to 76-86 (.469)

That makes the current leaders Game 5, Wozzle, Yak, Bucco Fan for life, Kooper Kid, and NAJE who all predicted 76-86.

At their current HR pace the Pirates will hit about 100 which makes NAJE, who predicted 130, the leader as of today.

Of course, if the Pirates win today those who predicted 77 wins will take the lead and if they lose those who predicted 75 wins  will take the lead.

Only one contestant has been eliminated.

Here are the predictions

LosingStopsHere..100-61 / 164 HR’s

Bucco...............99-62 / 173 HR's

POH..................96-66 / 173 HR's (Proxy vote by Sir L)

SlackBoss………91-71/ 161 HR’s

DMAC................90-72 / 150 HR's

Impliedi………..89-73 /  178 HR’s

BofRedus………88-74 / 185 HR’s

Menkrick……….88-74 / 163 HR’s

BucFanCT………88-74 /  158 HR’s

Sit Lochsby……...87-75 / 162 HR’s

Bjohnson921……87-75 / 144 HR’s

Gio Marsico……..86-76 / 177 HR’s

Groat2Maz.........86-76 / 166 HR's

WhyStanBelinda..86-76 /  156 HR’s

Baywatch...........86-76 / 144 HR's

WabbitSeason….86-76 / 130 HR’s

BillyKidd………..86-76 / 127 HR’s  (submitted by e-mail to JAL)

66 @ Lincoln…….86-76 /127 HR’s

Afail……………...85-77 / 177 HR’s

Heyfred………...85-77 / 172 HR’s

SRQBURGH…..85-77 /  160 HR’s

Diehard..............85-77 / 150 HR's

Luckydog……...85-77/ 131 HR’s

BleedB&G……..85-76 / 146 HR’s

Arriba Wilver......84-78 /  140 HR's

Jersey Joe………84-78 / 139 HR’s

Pirata 13..............84-78 / 138  HR’s

Wagnalls………..84-78 / 124 HR’s

Bloomsday……..83-79 / 175 HR’s

BigPoppaPump...83-79 / 163 HR's

PapaCoach........83-79 / 151 HR's

Pirate Radio…....83-79 / 150 HR’s

MBT…………   83-79/ 149 HR’s

Uncle Dude........83-79 / 147 HR's

Roschke………..83-79 / 143 HR’s

Bugonrug………83-79/ 141 HR’s

Ttoy44………….83-79/ 137 HR’s

Maximus……….83-79 / 129 HR’s’

JBurns………….83-80 / 154 HR’s

Gamer 45………82-79 /200 HR’s

Teddykinz..........82-80 / 166 HR's

TripleG................82-80 / 145 HR's

AusPirate………82-80 / 142 HR’s

PghFanin NH......82-80 / 141 HR's

Bob in FranklinPark..82-80 / 141 HR’s

Pig Legs Robinson…82-80 / 123 HR’s

JHadar.................81-80 / 165 HR's

Pi-Rat……….81-81 / 166 HR’s

Pirates018..........81-81 / 145 HR's

Larry Z...............81-81 / 136 HR's

Geowes………...81-81 / 130 HR’s

JaxBuc………….80-81 / 144 HR’s

JosePagan..........80-82 / 168 HR's

damikmikjeal….80-82 / 160 HR’s

LV Pirate Fan….80-82 / 150 HR’s

DingerBucFan.....80-82 / 145 HR's

jbrindger………...80-82 / 140 HR’s

ForbesFieldMem..80-82 / 137 HR's

Pirate Sun………..80-82 / 135 HR’s

IdahoBucFan…….80-82 / 132 HR’s

ABQ Bucco…80-82  /  130 HR’s

Popsfan………….80-82 / 123 HR’s

Baywatch Jr……..80-82 / 119 HR’s

ForbesFielderProdigy.. 79-83 / 150 HR’s

Manny Sanguine……..79-83 / 145HR’s

CAPN.................79-83 / 134 HR's

BucFan54............78-84 / 155 HR's

PI Stingray...........78-84 / 144 HR's

JL........................ 78-84 / 140 HR's

Indianafanatic......78-84 / 139 HR's

Kragbax...............78-84 / 137 HR's

Longliv3riv………78-84 / 130 HR’s

AlaskBucFan………78-84 / 127 HR’s

WalkyTalky………78-84 / 125 HR’s

CandleArea……..78-84 /  108 HR’s

CecilioGuante21…77-85 / 159 HR’s

Gregenstein………..77-85 / 155 HR’s

UglyKen...............77-85 / 147 HR's

KMRempel............77-85 / 141 HR's

Cullen H………….77-85 / 134 HR’s

Pipecock………….77-85 / 127 HR’s

Egscoach…………77-85 / 122 HR’s

Game 5…………...76-86 / 144 HR’s

Wozzle…………76-86 / 144 HR’s

Yak……………….76-86 / 136 HR’s

BuccoFanforLife…76-86 / 135 HR’s

KooperKid………76-86  / 133 HR’s

NAJE…………….76-86  / 130 HR’s

Ya'Zhynka………75-87 / 166 HR’s

JAL......................75-87 / 162 HR's

Radio Wave……..75-87 / 145 HR’s

Brakeman 8……...75-87 / 144 HR’s

Bizrow…………...75-87 / 136 HR’s

Marty 34156…….75-87 / 135 HR’s

IowaBuc…………75-87 / 132 HR’s

Drew Jr………….75-87 /130 HR’s

G-man..................75-87 / 128 HR's

SavingFace……  75-85 / 142 HR’s

BondsGoat............74-88 / 147 HR's

Shane..................74-88 / 137 HRs

CubReporter.........74-88 / 133 HR's

Duke 84………….74-88 / 128 HR’s

Ndbrian…………..74-88 / 126 HR’s

BayareaBuc..........73-89 / 147 HR's

Emoneypitt...........73-89 / 145 HR's

Drew.....................73-89 / 130 HR's

Juan Pizarro……..73-89 / 129 HR’s

GortRobot………73-89 /  124 HR’s

VT Pirate fan……73-89 / 123 HR’s

Jeffbwi…………..72-90 / 140 HR’s

Iratefan................72-90 / 137 HR's

The Wheelhouse…72-90 / 134 HR’s

BuccoFanWI……72-90 / 128 HR’s

DFlash…………..72-90 / 125 HR’s

Cocktailsfor2…….72-90 / 120 HR’s

A-Ron..................71-91 / 146 HR's

GetYoungTalent...71-91 / 138 HR’s

AllSmilesRanda…71-91 /  137 HR’s

CincyBucco…….70-92 /  171 HR’s

Bringbackbonds....70-92 / 144 HR's

Dan W...................70-92 / 136 HR's

JoeyBats..............70-92 / 135 HR's

Mrs Drew………..70-92 / 120 HR’s

Mendoza Line……70-92 / 99 HR’s

DrewRit21.............70-91 / 119 HR's

BuccoBlues..........69-93 / 131 HR's

Nitro.......................69-93 / 122 HR's

TBD1977………..69-93 /121 HR’s

Hammar………….68-93 / 128 HR’s

Rumbunter……….68-94/ 129 HR’s

Iceman…………..68-94 / 125 HR’s

LeeFoo…………..68-94 / 120HR’s

Stillsmack………..67-95/ 150 HR’s

PDXPirate.............67-95 / 133 HR's

MD3……………..67-95 / 121 HR’s

Dejan K………….67-95

DHARR18……...66-95 / 142 HR’s

Junior Ortiz……...66-96 / 125 HR’s

Demery………….66-96 / 119 HR’s

UtesFan89……….65-97 / 165 HR’s

RichieHP………...65-97 / 148 HR’s

WietersforPres…..65-97 / 133 HR’s

Cave Bonifield......65-97 / 127 HR's

Disgruntled Goat...65-97 / 121 HR's

Frustrated 314……65-97 / 121 HR’s

The Deacon………64-98 / 149 HR’s

Nutting Hostage….64-98 / 131 HR’s

21sthebest..............64-98 / 121 HR's

Yotum...................63-99 / 132 HR's

AmarilloFats.........62-99 / 126 HR's

Jack Sparrow……..63-99/ 122 HR’s

Happyhower……..61-99 / 142 HR’s

STLRFANRC........61-101 / 120 HR's

Cisco Kid…………61-101 / 93 HR’s

Thunder................60-102 / 140 HR's

JuniataKid............60-102 / 139 HR's

Allarmy…………59-103 / 129 HR’s

Bizrow’s Son……58-103 / 123 HR’s

PATM…………...54-107 / 31 HR’s

JayPo……………50-112 /  100 HR’s

Andy Van Slice....10-152 / 3 HR's

Jose,

I think we are all curious to see how Rinku and Dinesh fair.....

And, no I think Milledge & Tabata are different than McCutchen and Hernandez. Milledge and Tabata have some power, and McCutchen even has a little.

I like that they are all athletic types with speed.

The only concern I have is that they are all right handed hitters.

As Neal executes additional trades in July (LaRoche, Sanchez, Wilson, Grabow, and possibly Doumit and Capps)....I think one of his three priorities needs to be the acquisition of a lefty bat with pop for either 1B or RF. - Along with middle infield prospects / replacements.

@ Hostage: Good thoughts. At this point though, I think Doumit is your most likely candidate for a trade as he has the best combination of age, talent, track record and contract going for him.

I love Wilson as a player. I wish he would just shut up. He was grousing before the season about the team not being good enough. I do hope though, that if he is traded he can go somewhere and play games that mean something in September.

Jose

Good Morning All!

@ NuHo

Seconded wholeheartedly.  Neal needs to stop chipping away at the foundation and just set the charges and push the plunger.  If the payroll is $25MM next year because it's all young, up and coming players, so be it.  I somewhat disagree with your notion to trade Doumit, due to his relative youth, favorable team contract and offensive skillset, but he would bring the biggest return should they choose to trade him; if they are going to do that, they need to wait until the offseason to deal him to get the maximum return IMHO) but no one else you mentioned should be here any later than August 31.

As an aside, my wife made an interesting comment to me about Jack Wilson last night; she's a huge baseball fan as well, although not so much into the business end of it as I am.  After hearing some of Jack's comments, she asked "When did he become Kevin Young?"  

For those of us who have been following the Pirates for the last decade, we probably remember when Jack was the fresh-faced rookie and Kevin Young the surly veteran who derided Jack for his enthusiasm and disliked that other veterans were being moved to make room for younger players.  How the times change.  

Just to clarify: I meant that on the 25 man roster we have a lot of folks who are either outfielders or are capable of playing OF (Pearce/Young - after a fashion).

I re-read my post and I implied they were the same type of player, rather than what I was actually thinking...sorry! good answer though!

Who, though, is going to trade young middle infield talent for potential FA's or older players (Sanchez/Wilson) with large contracts?

This is why I think Doumit could go because he could net that sort of return. I mean, I don't want him to go, but if you are going to blow something up then you might as well blow it up properly.

Jose

Bishop,

I was just thinking about that in regard to KY. I will say this...at least everyone knows where the FO stands. They're rebuilding. For once, there's actually light at the end of tunnel (probably 2011), even though in the interim it may get darker for a while. Hopefully the pitchers acquired and upcoming don't ruin what might be a nice lineup by then.

Its good to see evryone coming around

I think the players being upset about the trade is not unexpected since the FO said they would let them try to win this year and now they have changed the game plan.  But, it is what it is and we have no control, nor do the players and that is hard on all of us.

Mr. Bishop,

Excellent observation by Mrs. Bishop.

That past 9 years since the Bucs traded Christiansen for Jack have just flown by.......

I hear what you are saying about Doumit.....but I also think he, if packaged along with Wilson or Sanchez could bring a significantly better return.

If it waits until the off season, I'm good with that but the needs are MUST haves IMO:

- Lefty bat w/ pop for RF or 1B

- Shortstop prospect (Like a Zobrist)

- Second base prospect. (W/ D. Young as insurance though his glove scares the crap out of me.)

I'd forgotten about Jack's comment at the beginning of the season or the off-season that, essentially,  "We need to get better talent in here."  It makes his recent comments look like, "Hey, wait, I didn't mean get rid of 'those' guys!"

Adam's comments, which were very measured and professional, shouldn't be lumped in with JW's..  I think Adam has really turned into a leader and Freddy didn't say anything bad.

Bottom line, I don't think we need to get rid of the veterans because they might "poison" the young guys.  And I also don't think we are necessarily weaker today than we were yesterday.  Milledge will be up in a matter of weeks if he shows anything, and although I don't discount his attitude at all, I will be surprised if he doesn't grab this opportunity,at least at the beginning.  This was not the typical, trade vets for prospects, deal.  And Hinske's absence, while a nice guy, is essentially irrelevant to them competing this year.

Of course, performances like Ohlie's last night will help A LOT.  It's still about the pitching.

@ NuHo

I got a good one to marry.  Our first date was at Three Rivers where we saw the Royals beat the Pirates 16-3, and I knew that if a woman could put up with sitting through a debacle like that, she just might be the one.  Nine years and two kids later, looks like I was right.

IRT your thought on Doumit, I don't like the idea of packaging him with Freddy, unless the return is spectacular.  Sanchez could probably stand on his own in a trade, or if not, package him with either Grabow or Capps, neither of whom is going to fetch much in a deal by themself.  Pair up the other P with Adam LaRoche to increase value, and dump Wilson for anything you can get since he doesn't have a ton of value and he's actively trying to talk his way out of town.  Doumit by himself will fetch a nice return, especially from an AL team that could use him to catch a few days a week and put him at DH to keep him in the lineup but not getting battered by being behind the plate every day.

I didn't hear any comments about Moss in left last night.  I thought he did a pretty good job.  Made a nice throw.  But he will probably be benched for Salazar.

A.Wilver, good point about Jack's comments at the beginning of the season.  I would have liked to have seen his reaction if no members of the press ran up to him yesterday to ask for his opinion on the trades.  I think the guy loves the attention from the press and likes to talk a lot when the microphone is in front of his face.

That said, I hope they don't trade Jack or Freddie during this season.  And I hope they keep Capps too.  They don't have adequate replacements for them right now.

Mr. Bishop,

I have a similar love story.

Mrs. Hostage invited me to a Pens game for our first date. The Pens beat the Devils 6-3 on the night they had a memorial for Badger Bob.

I called her a few days later to thank her and casually asked her what she was doing to which she replied, "I'm in the tub watching Sportscenter".

Plus, she had Steeler season tickets.

It was love at first site.

@JosePagan - re - candidates

I'm thinking one of our starting pitchers is going to be dealt and maybe a couple of guys from the bullpen, in addition to the usual suspects.  GMs now know that Neal will deal, IMO there will be an offer or two for say Maholm or Duke that he "just can't refuse"

Thanks for the hard work DK, JAL

Tomorrow is July 2, any word on Sano?  MLBTraderumors says Baltimore is a darkhorse candidate to sign him, and am still waiting for the shoe to drop with draft choices, I know FO has been busy the past few days, but don't they have folks in the FO who's primary responsiblity is negotiating deals with draft picks?

The middle infielder I'd like to see the Bucs pursue is Brandon Wood of the Salt Lake City Bees (Angels AAA farm team).

Just turned 24, can play 3B or SS, has 15 HR and an OPS of  .951.  He's totally blocked at LA behind Aybar and Figgins. The Angels need a starter.  Could they be tricked, er, persuaded to take Snell or Gorzelanny (or both?).

Good morning all...

I appreciate Jack's disappointment...I can understand where he's coming from. Working for the same place, trying your best to contribute & seeing all the change going on that you feel isn't going to help...that can be frustrating.

Having said all that, when a new person takes over, he's going to have his own idea as to how to run the company. If that means getting rid of some people, then so be it, and those that complain loudest will be next, if they're not careful. That's the way life is. In this circumstance, Jack would probably be the next to go (as much as that will break my son's heart). But I think he can't go until the Pirates have a legit replacement, so maybe he feels safe in complaining.

Sorry for the rambling post...like I said yesterday, I like this trade & hope to see positive results.

Biz

Most welcome--I knew there would be a lot this morning but when I look at the blog trade post I think it the longest I ever put up

Brandon Wood would be another good one.

Jack's G

There was a lot on Moss posted last night during the game.  I was happy to see him start against a lefty.  Several think he will break out with some power soon.  One poster doesn't like him at all.  The hits and the throw to third were posted about.

@ Thundercrack

"I hope they don't trade Jack or Freddie during this season"

Why?  This season is over.

@ JAL

Sorry, didn't get to join in last night.  Went to the game and now I have to go to the doctor, so, I'm out.

Hey guys,

Since JAL threw up a collection of private blogs for us, I was hoping maybe some of you could check out mine with my take on the trades yesterday.  It's only two months old.

www.theunsportsmanlikes.com

-Dan

Two reasons not to trade Freddy and Jack:  Bixler and Ford.

@ biz: That's an excellent point re: trading pitching. No one seems to have enough and not that we do either but we have Snell (unlikely), Gorzo, Maholm/Duke and it would seem a package deal could bring a high return. More than we might think...

Jose

Oh yeah, since I forgot earlier, I'd like to repeat the sentiments of many here...DK, you're doing a fantastic job. Keep up the good work.

Thundercrack:  I hope they don't trade JW and Freddy also because of the no adequate replacement idea.  I think JW popping off (as a veteran) is different than the candle thing by Burnett, although behind that boyish exterior, Neal seems to have quite the "FU" interior.  And I don't mean Felix Unger.

If my keyboard doesn't melt down while I type this, I have also come around to the idea that Adam may be OK as our "Lefty McThump."  Part of that has to do with the fact that by trading Nate, Adam's left-handed power became more important.  I also think Adam has stepped up this year.  I know it's his walk year, but I didn't know if he had it in him.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  “GIFT”  WATCH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Today’s Topic:  MIDDLE INFIELDERs (stats thru 6/23/09)

[it’s Wednesday….the MIDDLE of the week] …by popular demand  J   “Gift” has been added to the PROSPECT WATCH

Brian Bixler – SS – Indy (2nd Round, 2004 Draft)

.245, 0 HR, 16RBIs  **  54 Games, 188 AB’s,  40R, 46H,  66K, 25BB, 6 SB  ** 6 Errors

Luis Cruz – Inf. – Indy (minor league free agent)

.258, 3 HR, 22RBIs  **  53 Games, 182 AB’s, 25R, 47H,  23K, 6 BB, 3 SB  **  6 Errors

Shelby Ford – 2B – Indy (3rd Round, 2006 Draft)

.163, 1 HR, 18RBIs  **  55 Games, 190 AB’s, 18R  31H, 42K,  5 BB, 5 SB  **  6 Errors

Brian Friday – SS – Altoona (3rd Round, 2007 Draft)

.274, 4HR,  14RBIs ** 46 Games, 168 AB’s, 23R, 46H, 27K, 18BB, 3 SB,  ** 13 Errors

Jim Negrych – 2B – Altoona (6th Round, 2006 Draft)

.251, 1HR, 18 RBIs ** 63 Games, 211 AB’s, 30R, 53H, 23K, 30BB, 3 SB  **  10 Errors

Jordy Mercer – SS – Lynchburg (3rd Round, 2008 Draft)

.240, 4 HR, 39 RBIs  ** 65  Games, 254 AB’s, 35R, 61H,  48K, 20BB, 5 SB  **  11 Errors

Jose de Los Santos – 2B – Lynchburg (signed as a non drafted free agent in 2004)

.234, 0 HR, 17 RBIs  ** 50 Games,  205AB’s, 40R, 48H, 45K, 15BB, 29 SB ** 6 Errors

Chase D’Arnaud – SS – W.Va &  Lynchburg (4th Round, 2008 Draft)

.291 3 HR, 31 RBI   **  62 Games, 213 AB’s, 32R, 62H,  31K, 30BB, 17 SB   **  7 Errors

Brock Holt – 2B – State College – (9th Round, 2009 Draft)

.160, 1 HR, 1 RBI  **  8 Games, 25 AB’s, 4R, 4H, 6K, 5BB, 0 SB  **  0  Errors

Mpho “Gift” Ngoepe – 2B/SS– Bradenton GCL – (South Africa free agent)

.250,  0 HR, 0 RBI  **  3 Games, 12 AB’s, 1R, 3H. 4K.  0BB.  0 SB **  0  Errors

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

...whooops...stats are through 6/30/09

Dan1283:

Consider yourself bookmarked.  Nice blog.

I like Brandon Wood from an offensive perspective, but isn't there some question about his defense at SS?  That scares me, since we have a bunch of pitch-to-contact guys that benefit by having solid defense behind them.  Not saying we pick up a all-glove no-bat Jack Wilson clone, but I think the defensive aptitude of Wilson's replacement has to be considered strongly.  

 At least with the Nats deal, we traded 2 low ceiling players while their stock was high for 2 high ceiling players while their stock was low. That is the sort of move you should want your GM to do especially when you are rebuilding after 16+ years of losing. I am also encouraged that we have a trading partner other than the Yanks, BoSox, Braves or Dodgers. Those are well run organizations that seem to know player s upsides and potentials. The Natsa re clueless lets deal with teams like them.

PHOTO - mini Iowa Inmate Gathering:  BuccoFanForLife was visiting Iowa on a business trip so we got together at a sports bar last night to watch the game.  Click on my well dressed avatar and look at my files for a picture of the two of us enjoying the Bucs win over the Cubs!  I'm on the left with BuccoFanForLife on the right.

And @BuccoFanForLife - come back and visit us in Iowa any time.  You're always welcome here!

Bizrow,

IMO, I don't see either Duke or Maholm being traded. That would seem to go against the prevailing wisdom that you don't trade existing starting pitching for prospects. Unless someone truly overpays for either one (likely at least one ML-ready position player + a couple others), they won't move.

Of course, I'm not the one writing checks, either.

Sorry for the shameless self promotion but I really think you guys will enjoy this, plus it was published too late for the ML's:

A Conversation with Doug Mientkiewicz

aisethejollyroger.com/2009/07/a-conversation-with-doug-mientkiewicz/

@roxtar

Thank you very much!  I work very hard on all of my posts.

Okay, my $.02

1) Ross continues to do a good job.  He's had some rough ones as of late, but last night he was NASTY!!!!  His changeup was sick, and so was his sinker.  For everyone saying his velocity is down 89-91 on the fastball (when he was throwing 95 last season), I'd say its coming from throwing many more 2-seam fastballs (which have much more movement, but that tends to bring the velocity down) rather than 4 seamers.  Just my observation.

2) I'M IN TOTAL AGREEANCE WITH NUTTING HOSTAGE!  I wanted to see my outfield of Bay - McCutchen - McLouth, but it's not going to happen so as I was saying yesterday....Neil & Frank: Demolition Men.  BLOW IT UP!

3) I'm getting a little tired of Jack Wilson.  Man's great with the glove, I love the energy he brings to the field, but when was it the right thing to do to criticize you're front office?  Wasn't he a benefactor of one of these "plans"?  If I work for a company and that company makes a bad merger, I don't then tell a reporter that my upper management is doing a terrible job.  That'd get me fired, and I'm pretty sure it's going to get Jack traded.

4) Hey a winning June.  That's 2 out of 3 months of winning baseball with a pretty crap team (face it...they are).  Iuno, maybe break the streak, but here comes the like 14 outta 17 game losing streak right outta the All-Star break so...............prolly not!

Here is the Jolly Roger story with a live link

raisethejollyroger.com/.../a-conversation-with-doug-mientkiewicz

GGG

Nice picture

and here the live link to Dan's post

www.theunsportsmanlikes.com/.../cry-me-three-rivers.html

On Milledge, I listened to some of the horrific "The Drive" yesterday afternoon and had to hear Eddie Crow say repeatedly, "I don't see why people are saying Milledge is a power bat.  His best season in the majors, he only hit 14 HR."

I did a little research this morning before getting into the drudgery.  Of all NL players under the age of 23 last year, here's the list of guys who hit 10+ HR:

Ryan Zimmerman

Jay Bruce

Matt Kemp

Justin Upton

Ian Stewart

Lastings Milledge

6 guys out of 16 teams.  I'd take any of those other guys on the Pirates in a heartbeat, so the more I look into this, NH really stole a potential stud if LM can get his head on straight.

Also, Mike Logan hated the trade, saying "if you can get Marvin Harrison production (Nyjer), why would you trade for Terrell Owens (Lastings) production with all the headaches?"  Now, if he'd replaced Marvin Harrison-production with "Nate Washington-production", it would have been more accurate, and having said that, pass me the bottle of Motrin, because I'll take the headaches along with the kind of production LM can potentially bring over what Morgan does bring.

Thanks JAL.  It was great getting together with a fellow inmate to watch the game and talk baseball.  BuccoFanForLife is a scholar and a gentleman.  It was a super day to talk about the team with all the trades and that.  We inmates may argue, snap, and snarl at each other in here but it's great to know there's a place to go with folks equally obsessed with the Pittsburgh Pirates.  

For the record, I support these trades.  I may be wrong but I don't believe we'll see a decrease in performance on the field.

I've been reading a lot of about this trade on  a lot of different web sites, so I can't quite remember where I saw this but I think Jesse Chavez had the candle burning in front of his locker yesterday.   (might have been on the web site of the other pgh paper)   I think it was reported that both Burnett and Chavez lit the candles after Nate's trade.

Let's play some ball now!

Good Morning Folks!

Busy day yesterday and while I was lurking on the board, didn't have time to get my thoughts in order to put something out there.  

Anyway, love the moves yesterday.  The Hinske move was nothing significant, but at least he won't be taking starts away from other guys that need the work.  I also hated watching him bat against a LHP... almost seemed like an auto out.  Don't know much about the 'prospects' we received in return, but I heard somone on XM MLB channel give the Bucs props and said the prospects might help down the road - who knows.

While I loved Morgan's enthusiasm, his best asset was his speed and the ability to steal bases, yet he led the league in caught stealing.  Again, I'll miss his personality, but from a pure baseball talent perspective it was a great move.  And personality doesn't win many baseball games!

In terms of trading other vets, I don't see things in absolutes, as in "We should trade player X" or "We shouldn't trade player Y."

Each deal has to be evaluated on its own merits.  Whether it's Wilson, Freddy, Adam, etc. it all depends on the return.  If the players coming back will help the Bucs become a contender, then I'm for it.

As for Doumit, however, we have to see if he's healthy.  His target to come back is two weeks before the deadline, and that may not be enough time for teams to feel comfortable dealing for him.  Plus, his value wouldn't be as high as possible due to the injury, and this runs counter to NH's philosophy of selling high, as he did with Nate and Nyjer.

$$$$$  BODY WATCH – ATTENDANCE AT MLB PARKS $$$$$

Thru 6/30/09

30. Florida……… 41 dates ** 733,546 total  **  17,891 avg.

29. Oakland……. 39 dates ** 703,858 total  **  18,047 avg.

28. PIRATES ….. 37 dates ** 690,856 total  **  18,671 avg.

27. Cleveland….. 40 dates ** 888,951 total  **  22,223 avg.

26. Toronto…...… 42 dates ** 951,584 total  **  22,656 avg.

1. NY Yanks … 36 dates ** 1,624,329 total   **   45,120 avg.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

@ Bishop: You bring up something here with your "pitch to contact" observation.

IF Jack/Freddie are traded, then it actually makes sense to trade some of our pitching as a lesser-fielding IF will be of no value to these guys.

Think about it: Why stockpile all these power arms and retain the ground-ball pitchers? If that is the direction you are going in then it makes sense to cut down on their number.

Just thinking out loud here...

Jose

@Joey Bats

Isn't it amazing how far Cleveland has fallen in the attendance standings?  When the Jake was first opened, they had so many consecutive games sold out there.  Also, they are only two years removed from the ALCS against Boston.

Bishop,

Eddy Crow is an idiot who knows little about baseball. He is one of those guys who demonstrates his ignorance everytime he opens his mouth.

Milledge hit 14 HR's as a 23 yr old.

Roberto Clemente hit 6 HR's the season he was 23.

Willie Stargell hit 11 HR's the season he was 23.

Dave Parker hit 4 HR's the season he was 23.

Van Slyke hit 7 HR's the season he was 23.

Bobby Bonilla hit 3 HR's the season he was 23.

Jason Bay didn't reach the majors until he was 24 and he hit 4 HR's the season he was 24.

I'd say those guys were all power hitters.

Not that Milledge will be another Roberto or Willie, but what a ridiculous comment by Crow.

@jefft - re trading pitching

I think about anyone is on the table right now.  And again, it would have to be an offer that NH could not refuse.  

It will be real interesting this next month to see who goes, you gotta believe Adam is going, they could keep Grabow as earlier noted here, a Type A, offer arb, with the money we will be saving with no AdLa, its possible.  Don't know if anyone would sign Grabow though and lose their No 1 pick

I really hope they keep Freddie, he adds a lot to the club, as far as JW, well, ah heck, am just rehashing whats already been said, sorry.

So any word or thoughts on Sano?

Re - Hinske trade and return.  IMO as we paid 400K as part of the deal, we got some talent in return, thats the way it ususally works, pick up some of the cash, get better talent in return.

Re - The Drive

One word, AWFUL

I would be shocked if we start the season next year with Duke, Maholm, and Gorzo all in our system.  I would think that one would be traded as we load up on the power arms.  Since LHP is typically held at a premium, maybe we can get a decent SS prospect out of the deal.  

Hey " why didn't I get to see Roberto "  No offense intended !  You just don't get it Jack Wilson is speaking for all of us *** off members of the Pirate Nation.  The Mgmt Plan has Nutting to do with contending, now or in the future.  It is about paying down debt and improving ROI ( Return on Investment )  Every year they hang their " Lets Make a Deal " shingle out and wait for the other teams to come calling.  I read all this talk about the great talent the Pirates have extracted from the Yankees and the Red Sox, show me one trade that has improved the Pirates ......none, zip, nada.  Right now, the only hope the Pirates of ever competing again is if Mario buys the team !!!!!!!!!

@TripleG

Had lots of fun hanging out during the game!  Thanks for posting the picture!  The next time I am in the area we will do it again!

ALL - TripleG is a lot of fun and very knowledgable, if you are ever in the Quad Cities area of Illinois / Iowa hit him up to watch a game!  You will have a blast!

Just a quick thought about the trade... I believe Milledge is going to be on a rehab assignment in Bradenton, right?  That's where Doumit went yesterday.  You think Doumit's presnece there has anything to do with the timing?

BTW... it was hard to lose Nyjer, but I think the trade was no-brainer in a sense that Nyjer is 29 with his trade value being the highest it has been and probably will be.  Milledge is 24 with a lot of potential.  Hopefully they can turn around his bad attitude and make him into a star!

NuHo,

I know Crow is, just as are Mark Madden, Bob Pompeani and most of the other screaming heads on local radio.  It is just that is they have access to an audience and if they give misinformation or don't delve any deeper than superficial stats, some listeners and watchers buy it as fact without thinking critically for themselves.  

You know, like if one poster on these boards constantly puts up messages that Bob Nutting is cheap or the FO is incompetent; if they write it enough times, others might start to buy into it and echo the sentiments.  

@Bucco Fan For Life - Doumit being there at this time is just a coicidence. A very good one for the Pirates. Doumit might be able to set a good example to Milledge and help the kid mature a bit.

I still believe him being in New York is what messed him up. If you remember, the New York media ruined Bobby Bonilla. And Bobby Bonilla was always a happy smiling person.

With the sudden influx of talent and potential in the OF, what about packaging Gorkys or Tabata in a trade to get an above average middle of the infield prospect that is close to major league ready?

Do you think the Pirates end up keeping Wilson to try to kept all these young players together and in line?  Not to mention that they have no replacement at shortstop!

Instead of trading for middle infielders, wy not extend Jack and freddy for 2 years and wait for the guys in the minors to get here. Jack Wilson has already said he wants to play for 2 more years and then hang it up. Freddy will get his 1 year extension by meeting his contract requirements.

Bishop,

That was pretty good.

;-)

The difference between me and Eddy Crow, Mark Madden, etc.....is that I know what I am talking about and I'm right.

They know little about baseball and it shows everytime they open their mouths.

You are a very clever and funny fellow though. - fast becoming one of my favorites on here.

@matt the ratt - I'd hold on to Tabata for dear life.  I haven't watched Gorkys yet, but I thinkhe may be a keeper also.  I know the term has lost some validity of late, but Tabata is someone to truly add to the Alvarez foundation to "build the team around".  

With that in mind, @Desert Pirate Fan - I'd say that Tabata was a good aquisition from NY.  Without going any further, you asked for one good example... there you go.  Tabata.  I believe he's going to be amazing.

@irate fan:

I hope you are right about Milledge being in New York.  Bobby Bonilla was similar to Hines Ward, in that he always had a smile on his face (as you said) in Pittsburgh.  When Bonilla went to NY he was a totally different person.  I really think Milledge is going to be a force on this team for years to come.  In a year or so I believe people will mention this trade and give a lot of props to Neal for pulling the trigger.

Doumit being there with him right now will be huge!

@BuccoFanForLife - Thanks, you're welcome here anytime.  Regarding Doumit, it's probably coincidence but it certainly can't hurt!  One of the most important things for the organization right now is to get some mentoring for Milleage.  If the rest of the Bucs lead by example I bet he'll be fine... I know... from my lips to God's ears.

@ Desert Pirate Fan

If Neal's plan works and the Bucs get back to being competitive and making the post season, you are banned from cheering for them.  I was in your thinking until Nate got traded.  I was so angry at that, but then I sat there, read a little about who we acquired, watched Morton pitch, and was like "Ya know what, I'm going to see this through".  We're blowing it up (my friend who is a Mets fan wants Minaya to blow that team up.  He wants to keep Wright, Santana, and K-Rod and he says everyone else can go, so it's not just us Bucco fans ok?) and this is how you do it.  You get young guys who have great upside, not veterans who have reached their peak.  QUALITY AND QUANTITY, QUALITY AND QUANTITY, chant with me now, QUALITY AND QUANTITY!

TripleG,

I agree re: Tabata, but I think Desert Pirate Fan was referring to improvements on the major league team (as though that's all that matters for a team like the Bucs).

But having said that, they also got a guy who had a line of 7IP 0R 4H 8K 0BB last night against the Cubs.

I figured it would be a couple of years before the Nady deal would pay dividends.  Turns out it's already paid off for the Bucs.

Dang, I'm in the Quad Cities at least once a year. Unfortuanately, it's normally in January/February, when the weather is sooooo nice. :)

@desert

I echo your sentiments.  I was really upset about the McLouth trade and did the same thing as you.  Neal and the FO is going for it and when they get there, look out!  The Pirates will be a force again and soon... NH will be a hero in Pittsburgh, I truly believe it.

With all these trades, the notion of "winning now" has to take a backseat to "winning later."  I would ask why?  Of all the guys we received from the Nady & Bay deals, only Ohlendorf, Andy LaRoche and Moss are contributing right now at the ML level.  Morton is in the rotation from the McLouth deal.  Given the fact that Nady is injured, we could have moved Nate to RF and have an OF of Bay-McCutcheon-McLouth and Nyjer as a fourth OF.

We basically would have had to find guys to replace Ohlednorf and Andy LaRoche in free agency.  It seems our biggest improvement in pitching has come from a new pitching coach anyways.

Our starting lineup could be:

1.  McCutcheon - CF

2.  Sanchez - 2B

3.  McLouth - RF

4.  Bay - LF

5.  Doumit - C

6.  LaRoche -1B

7.  Free agent - 3B

8.  Wilson - SS

9.  Pitcher

BOTTOM LINE:  You can also build a team by not holding fire sales.  And we would still have guys at AAA to pull from in the case of injuries.

Hostage

You are right except when you are wrong :)

Hey Nutho, I wanted to be your favorite.

My wife was more broken up that Tony Plush was trade than when Nate was.  When I mentioned that Nyjer was 29 -she said 'who cares, some guys play until they're 40'  I didn't press the issue that most of those guys are pitchers and usually hall-of-fame worth.

Who else gets the feeling that we won't see Yates or Hansen pitch again in PNC Park this year?

"Not that Milledge will be another Roberto or Willie, but what a ridiculous comment by Crow."

Milledge is playing in a different era than those players.  Ballparks are now smaller, the height of the mound was lower in 1969, wasn't the ball wound differently too?  And then you have steroids.  Who knows.

I just don't think it's an apples to apples comparison.

NuHo

I just try to keep things light.  I spend too much time on message boards, including this one, where people get angry and start calling people names because they don't agree with or like the other person's opinion.  

If people just took the time to read the other posters' comments and then think about them critically instead of just having knee-jerk reactions, they may find that, even if they don't agree in the least, the other person makes valid points and they may reconsider their stance relative to the argument.

All these trades might indeed produce a winning team one year by luck as some other small budget teams have done - but at what price? All the players will be strangers to the fans, as we turn them over every two years no matter how popular they are. Without identification with the players, fan interest suffers. I call myself a Pirate fan - but what does this mean? Rooting for a bunch of unfamiliar names who happen to be rented out to the PBC for one or two years at a time?

This is the biggest curse of free agency - not the money.

@FormerSoxFan - Yeah, I understand that the question was about the immediate team, but my point is that the major league team will not matter without a foundation for the future.  It's a balancing act for sure, but personally I wouldn't want one ok season (a blip on the radar) followed by another long run of pain.  The reason I've been able to get behind "the plan" is that it looks to me like we're building for continued success, not just one good season.

But FSF I agree with your Ohlie reference!  Right after we got Karstens and he pitched his near no-no I bumped into him at the SoHo across from PNC Park.  I told him how glad I was that he was with the team and he replied "Ross is the one that you should be excited about.  Wait 'til he gets here".  

Thunderc

I am betting one of them will pitch in PNC Park before the season ends.

"show me one trade that has improved the Pirates"

Xavier Nady/Damaso Marte for Ross O/Jeff K/Jose T/Dan McC

That's 2/5 of the starting rotation (to start....obvs. Karstens is now in the pen), Dan McC is a possible option for the rotation incase of injury, and Jose T is progressing nicely in AA (possibly up in Pittsburgh next year).

J-Bay for Andy/Brandon/Craig Hansen/Brian Morris

That's 2/8 of our starting pos players (now that the Hinsk is off and Nyjmo is traded B. Moss can get eveyday playing time) and Andy has developed into a very solid 3B.  Both of their power numbers will increase over the next 1-2 seasons.  Hansen threw well in ST, and OK until he got hurt, and Morris is 21 in A ball who projects to be a top of the rotation guy.

Nyjmo/Burnett for Milledge/Hanrahan

Nyjmo was a great guy to watch and he seemd like he loved to play the game, but what is so special about Nyjer?  I've heard him described as a poor man's Juan Pierre.  Poor Man's Juan Pierre?  I'll take a shot on a potential 5-tool stud with some head problems for a poor man's Juan Pierre.

Hanrahan/Burnett swap is a wash.  I see no real gain/loss there.

Nate McLouth for Charlie M/GORKYSSSSSSSS H/Jeff Locke

Morton has potential top of the rotation stuff (not 1, but def 2) if he can work through his control issues.  Gorkys is a 4 tool outfielder (lacks power) who projects to be a stud.  Locke was the number 7 prospect in the ATL organization and he was only in A ball sooo

Dude, I was just like you.  I saw the Nady trade last year and was PO'd.  Then the Bay trade, and I was PO'd.  Then the Nate trade, and I was PO'd.  But then I took a step back, looked at the amount and quality of the talent we got in return (again QUALITY AND QUANTITY) and was like OK, Neal, I'll go with it.  It's been 16 going on 17, what's a few more?  Bob Smizik had a point that there were only 3 guys left from when B-Bonds came up in '86 to when the started winning in '90.

It's not just about the PBC, but it's about the ORGANIZATION (From Bradenton up to Pittsburgh).  Face it, the personel they have now JUST ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH!

Neal & Frank, do what you do, EXPLODE THAT MUTHA!  

About the Attendance

Cleveland averages around 22,000, the Bucs 18,000, but lets look at reality.

The Pirates play no one that would bring up the attendance, they play no one anyone wants to see.

The Indians play the Yankees, the Red Sox, imagine if the Pirates played the Yankees and the Red Sox say 8 games a year each here.

Instead of getting our 54,000 for a 3 game series we would be getting closer to 114,000 for a series, that ends up looking like?

Math Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

144,000 for 8 games without Yanks or Boston

304,000 for 8 games with Yanks or Boston

160,000 difference in attendance just in scheduling of two teams

One way to help the Pirates attendance would be to get them in a division with the Phillies and the Mets, there is no interest around here in watching the Astro's.

The Cubs travel well, but not nearly was well as the Yanks and Boston.

Frustrated

Good point.  It is more difficult when a roster is constantly turning over.  Morgan and Burnett have part of the organization for several years and now are suddenly gone.  Still, as fans, we have to realize that is the nature of pro sports.  Winning turns fans around quickly.  While the Steelers have some long time favorites. like Ward, they change some main parts constantly too but the beat goes on.  Pens are young team and their big stars have only been around a couple of years yet winning built a fan base.  If this teams starts winning it will not matter to most who the players are.  Milledge comes up and starts hitting HRs and the fans will adopt him.

I was reading Buster Olney's blog, and saw this tidbit:

"Yunel Escobar started on the bench for the fourth straight game, largely because of injury and perhaps also because of the team's frustration with him, as David O'Brien writes. Heard this: The Braves are willing to trade Escobar for a good hitter right now."

Escobar's a pretty intriguing guy, if the Bucs were looking to trade Jack.  He's been a bit inconsistent defensively, but overall is decent and should improve some, and offensively he's a significant upgrade over Jack.  Plus, he's 26 and would be under club control for several years.

Wouldn't Adam be a good fit to go back to Atlanta?  Right now they're using a Kotchman/Prado platoon at first, so Adam would be a pretty big upgrade for them.

"Ross is the one that you should be excited about.  Wait 'til he gets here".

Triple G,

My best friends are Yankee fans (I know, I know) and they told me too that Ross and Karstens are pretty good (I was on my tirade that we just traded X-man and Damaso for no one...I wanted either Hughes or Kennedy) so I'm totally happy that Ross is doing so well.  Also, with the last name OHLENDORF how can you not love him?!?!?!?!

NuHo,

Regarding your comments about who must go, you may be right.  The mad scientist in me also wants to see a complete makeover and rebuilding of the franchise.

However, I think NH operates in a much more systematic way.  It woudl appear that he has an appraised value for each of the assets in his possession.  I don't think you'll see him move anyone just for the sake of moving them.  I think he'll wait and see what is offered and if the return is greater than his perceived value then he'll make the deal.  If not, then he'll hold on to it and wait for better.  I honestly don't think he was shopping McLouth and everything I've read confirms that.  I think he just received an offer that he felt was higher in value so he took it.  I'll be interested if the same holds true for Sanchez, Wilson or any of the pitchers.

The will be exceptions, I'm sure.  LaRoche may be one given the contract status and his long-term viability versus cost so he may be traded for the best offer.  

I know people hate hearing about "the plan" but it would appear that NH really does have one (and is better at executing it) and I have, so far, admired his conviction to it.  

Welcome to the asylum Desert Pirates Fan, what desert are you at?

IMO, we need to make sure NH has all the matches he needs to finish the demolition.  

Found this somewhere, its our odds of making the playoffs this year,

www.baseballprospectus.com/.../ps_oddspec.php

Frustrated

ll the players will be strangers to the fans, as we turn them over every two years no matter how popular they are.

______________________________________

The Pirate management has determined that winning is more important to the fans than who does it.

If the Pirates had a franchise player, like a Pujols they probably would try to keep him, but they have not had a franchise player since Bonds left.

That regime made a bad decision, they did not identify their top ballplayer correctly, they went with the fan favorite of Van Slyke, this group will not make that mistake.

If the system they are putting in place works, the minor league players will be the ones making the front office move the major league players, because they will be good enough to push them out.

I don't know if anyone listened when Neal said, we could let McClouth go because we had another center fielder ready to go that could take his place. That sentence tells you a lot.

I really like the addition of Milledge.  A lot of people on here complain about the lack of power for the Buccos.  This is exactly the type of player they need.  Granted his attitude is not the best, but what good team doesn't have a guy like this?  You can't have everyone on your team be a "nice guy."  That just is not going to happen.  I like the risk we're taking.

I like Karstens in the pen.  I think he may be one of those pitchers that is really good for 3 innings --and might not have the stuff or stamina to be a starter.  He seems to be a quality long-man plus he was pretty good in his shorter stints out of the pen.

@ leadoff

I've been saying the same thing about the Pirates in the NL Central vs NL East for years.  We, as a city, don't identify with Milwaukee and Houston and Cincinnati; those are Midwest cities.  Pittsburghers identify more with New York and Philly and Washington D.C.; we consider ourselves easterners, with the Midwest starting at the PA/OH line.    

I've also heard people argue that the Pirates can't compete against the relatively-low spending Central, so they'd get killed in the East.  Possibly, but with an uptick in attendance brought on by playing the Mets and Phillies more, the Pirates would potentially be able to increase payroll.  I've seen the Astros and Reds and Cardinals too many times over the past decade, and outside of getting to see Albert Pujols dominate like only he can, I don't want to go see those teams any more.  I grew up hating the Mets and Phillies, so getting them in here more often would be great.  

Look at the Penguins.  They were afterthoughts in a division with Boston, Montreal, Buffalo and Toronto, but regained some of their status when they were hooked back up with the Rangers, Flyers, Islanders and Devils, who were their traditional rivals (outside of NJ, who were relative newcomers to the party).

Here's a suggestion for MLB.  When next year's All Star ballot add a projection of where Pirates players might be at the All Star break.  It might look something like this:

OF - McCutcheon, A. (Pit - Proj LAA)

OF - Milledge, L. (Pit - Proj Chi, AL)

OF - Moss, B. (Pit - Proj NY, NL)

C - Doumit, R. (Pit - Proj Bos)

It might help the players get votes and the Bucs can take partial credit.

;)

Desert,

I'll assume your Mario comment was somewhat tongue in cheek but didn't Mario basically do the same thing the Bucs are in the process of doing?  I seem to recall Jagr and others being shipped off for minimal return.  It was simply a salary dump.  

Once the financial situation was solidified due in great part to a salary cap the Pens, through shrewd drafting and lucky bounces of the ping pong balls, rebuilt from the ground up.  What is the PBC doing any differently?

Bishop,

I don't know if this hurts attendance or not, but it's not right that we're (and the other 5 teams) are in a 6 team divison and everyone else is in a 5 or 4 team division.  Makes it a bit toughter to win the division, eh?

Have 6, 5 team divisions and be done with it.  They could work out the scheduling quirks with having two 15 team leagues.  I guess you'd always have an interleague series.

Bishop

I agree with except for one, the Pirates had a great rivalry with the Reds in the 70's with The Big Red Machine vs the Lumber Co.

If the Reds and Pirates rise to prominence this could still work, these teams are very close in proximity.

LET LASTINGS DO SOME BLASTINGS

I'M JONESIN" FOR SOME JONES

LETS RUB THE CUBS

sorry, it's still a bit hot over here...

Seeing more new folks all the time

Bucco Nation (40 States in the Union)

Still looking for inmates from the following:

Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Hawaii, Minnesota, North Dakota,

Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Wyoming

Much thanks to thanks to coreybower for knocking Tennessee off the list

We do have 9 countries represented: Australia, Brazil, Canada, England, Germany, Ireland, Phillipines, Scotland and lest I forget, the good old USA

Former Sox Fan,

How about Jack Wilson and Adam LaRoche for Yunell Escobar?

I'm sure we'd have to send some money in the deal to cover part of the remaining 2009 salaries.

Socaldonn,

You raise a good point, Neal is extremely deliberate.

NuHo, I agree with your assesment of Crow and the like, but your comparison between Lastings to the other hitters has a few serious errors. For instance, you say LM hit 14 as a 23 year old. OK, but yoiu fail to say he did that over the course of 523 at bats. And he had already had approx. 340 career big league AB's. Here's how your numbers should look...

Milledge - 23 - 14 HR in 523 AB

Clemente - 23 - 4HR in 451 AB ... Was Bob really a "HR hitter'?

Stargell   - 23 - 11HR in 304 AB

Parker    - 23 -  4HR in 220 AB

Van Slyke-23- 8HR- 309 AB

Bonilla     - 23- 3HR - 426 AB

Add Bay to the list with the same number career AB's leading into the season and his numbers will look like this as a 26 year old -

Bay        -26 yrs old- 26HR in 411 AB

I enjoy reading your take on all things PBC because you usually support your claim. This time your numbers didn't tell the whole truth.

Keep fighting the good fight.

Biz

Surprised there is not someone from Sweet Home Alabama or Oklahoma where the winds come sweeping down the plains.

Someone mentioned trading Gorkys and Tabata.Gorkys is 21 and Tabata is 20!Why would you trade either before you evaluate and see them for a while?Both were deemed near the top in their previous organizations.That's just trading to be trading.There has been a lot more thought put into the other trades.IMO

NuHo

Yunel Escobar can't get off the bench right now. Don't give them TWO starters for him.  

I would love to let them have Tyler Yates back. I'd be in for Yates and Jack for Yunel Escobar.  Since that's not likely to fly, what about giving them Jack and Jesse Chavez? Wouldn't that be the ultimate "sell high" since Jesse Chavez was completely worthless in spring training...and now he's been lights out?

NuHo,

"Former Sox Fan,

How about Jack Wilson and Adam LaRoche for Yunell Escobar?

I'm sure we'd have to send some money in the deal to cover part of the remaining 2009 salaries."

I can't always tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but that's a bit much for Escobar, particularly if the Bucs are picking up some salary.  If the Braves throw in a legit prospect or two?  Sure, that could work.

@21

Don't see how having 6 teams in a division makes it any tougher to win the division.  Win your games, especially with the unbalanced schedule against your own division, and things will take care of themselves.  

@ leadoff

Understand the point about the Reds in the '70s, but I'll counter with two points:

1.  That was the playoffs, not the regular season.  The Steelers had a great rivalry with the Raiders in the playoffs in the 70s but no one would say that translates to 2009 regular season games.

2.  I became a Pirates fan in the late 70's and couldn't care less about the Reds, no matter how big a rival we were with them in the 70s and how many times we play them now.  Personnaly, I want to see the team across the state and from the Big Apple more, because that's who I remember having a rivalry with.  As the fan base ages, fewer and fewer fans will remember the Big Red Machine days, but newer fans may have cut their teeth on Doc Gooden and Daryl Strawberry or Mike Schmidt and Steve Carlton; I doubt anyone is going to look back at the intense rivalry with a broken-down Ken Griffey Jr. or with Craig Biggio and Jeff Bagwell in the same way.

@mazfromiowa

I suggested maybe packaging one of them in a deal to get an elite middle infield prospect (because we have 0 of those in the system and we have a ton of talent in the OF).

Whenever I read how Bay would have made this team so much better I assume they think he would bring his stats here too.How many IBB do you think he gets?Why would ANYONE pitch to Bay?He has 19 HRs and 69 RBI.Since he wouldn't be in Fenway take 4-6 HRs and 10 RBI at least away.Then since Ellsbury,Drew,Youikilis,Pedroia etc. would not bat in front or behind  of him.....remove 4-6 more HRs and 12-15 RBI away because he'd not see so many fastballs.Then all the BB and IBB he'd also get...so take 10-15 more RBI and  2-4 HRs.I know these might border on overkill,but he'd  PROBABLY HAVE  10 HRs and 40 RBI.His BA is .267 so who knows what that would be here!

Patton,

That's a fair point, but then I could also argue that Clemente, and all the other guys I listed were not good enough at age 23 to crack an every day lineup as Milledge did.

I hear what you are saying, but I think being good enough to crack a starting lineup at that age should also be part of the equation. - That's why I didn't consider at bats.

BIZ

I grew up in Alabama. Does that count?

I spent many-a-games chanting Cone Head!!! I miss the days of seeing the Mets and Phils on a regular basis.  I like playing the cubs, but I am sooooo tired seeing the Stros and Reds multiple series in the Burgh.

Another player from Taiwan

eastwindupchronicle.com/pirates-sign-another-from-taiwan-high-school-ranks

Okay, so here's a way to pick up a buy low middle infield prospect to potentially replace Freddy/Jack.  

Minnesota desperately needs relief pitching.  As in "willing to try R.A. Dickey in the 8th inning" desperate.  

With that in mind, we have two options...

Jesse Chavez for 23 year old shortstop prospect Trevor Plouffe.  He's been a top 10 prospect in their organization twice (2006 and 2008) but is currently struggling a bit at AAA.  Still, he's 23 and a pretty decent prospect.  Could be worth a look.

John Grabow for 24 year old second baseman Alexi Casilla.  He was demoted this year after REALLY struggling, but has responded by hitting .333 in AAA with a .378 OBP and .797 OPS.  He hit .281 with a .333 OBP last year as a 23 year old in the majors in 98 games (385 at bats).  7 homers, 15 doubles, 50 RBI, 58 runs.  For a partial season for a 23 year old, pretty good. He's obviously fallen out of favor in Minnesota, as Nick Punto and Brendan Harris are now starting up the middle for them.  

maz--not sure how you can devalue Bay so much:

Pirates   HR        RBI

2004      26        82

2005      32       101

2006      35       109

2007      21         84  (injured knee year)

2008      22         64  (thru July)

Hardly supports the conclusion that he would have 10 homers and 40 RBI here unless you believe he would have a HUGE July here this year. Let's not devalue the guys just because they aren't here.

Colorado wants a reliever, and would part with Garrett Atkins. I know someone has already floated this (may have been wake, but I'm not positive) but it is definitely an option.  The guy can flat out hit.  You could put him at first if you move Adam LaRoche in another trade.  Or put him at third and put Andy at second if you move Freddy.  Andy could be a very nice second base bat, in my opinion.

Here's an interesting hypothetical...

It's 2011. Milledge, McCutchen, Hernandez & Tabata are all playing to their projections. Which one is the 4th outfielder? And what happens to Pearce, Salazar, Moss, etc?

I'd say, for now, that Hernandez is the odd man out, but that may be because I don't know as much about him.

Thoughts?

I think we need more catchers!  HA!

@pattonbb, - count

Nah, I think we're trying to only count where you are living now

@JAL - re Alabama, and Okie

I'll bet we've had visitors from most states, just haven't gotten them on the list, so we'll keep fishing

Has there been any word yet on who's replacing Jones and Salazar at Indy?

jefft

t's 2011. Milledge, McCutchen, Hernandez & Tabata are all playing to their projections. Which one is the 4th outfielder? And what happens to Pearce, Salazar, Moss, etc?

I'd say, for now, that Hernandez is the odd man out, but that may be because I don't know as much about him.

_______________________________________

Moss is a very good ballplayer, do not count him out of any 2011 group.

Pirate management knows he is a quality ballplayer, they have to play a lot of guys to see exactly what they have, he just happens to be the odd man out right now.

As for Hernandez, Tabata, they will be 22- 23 years old in 2011, they could still stay in the minors for a while.

"Don't see how having 6 teams in a division makes it any tougher to win the division."

Bishop,

Really?  Would you feel the same way if it were a 10 team division?  How about a 3 team division?  You don't think a lesser number of competitiors for a divison.would increase your chances?

i think yesterday's trade activities will be a positive for the PBC, but is anyone really surprised that NH would make a trade like this after all he's said and done these past 2 years? "Sell-high, buy low", "we need lots of very good ballplayers", "the minors is barren with no prospects", etc.

Also, understanding that this approach is primarily market-driven, I am wondering if the young GM's who grew up as a "fantasy-league GM" also has something to do  with it; ie the non-personnel activity that takes place in fantasy leagues vs the old-school, good-old-boy, personality heavy ways of older GM's?

And, after yesterday, is there anyone on the current roster safe from being traded this year? I would guess maybe a handful: McCutch, AndyL, Ohlie...........any others?? And I name these 3 with not much confidence in being correct.....

jefft

That's a great problem to have. I think Moss is a candidate for first base, if his power develops. Salazar is already 28, and not in any long term plans. Pearce would be a nice AL DH if he gets any consistency, but is also a 1B candidate...and not an outfield candidate at all.  If Milledge, McCutchen, Tabata, and Hernandez all hit, we'll make room.  One could likely be traded for a top-of-the-rotation pitcher.  Outside of Lincoln, and possibly Morris, Locke, and Morton, we don't have anybody who really projects as a top of the rotation guy.  So you'd move one of those guys for that piece.  Probably Milledge or Hernandez, if you could.

BAB,

I am veeery leery of Coors Field based offensive statistics.  Matt Holliday?

Maz

I agree that the lineup has had some help to Bays numbers but I am not with you with Fenway.

Bay actually has more hr on the road(12) that in Boston(7) and he is on pace to walk more than he did last year. He is hitting .254 at home and .277 on the road.

Last year he hit 18 hr at home and 13 on the road, however of the 18 only 3 were at Fenway, the rest were at PNC.  He also batted .290 at PNC Park.

Here is a hit chart at Fenway this year:

mlb.mlb.com/.../individual_player_hitting_chart.jsp

You could argue that it has hurt his numbers.  While he may have gotten any easy hr or two, you can are that some of the doubles may have gone out if the wall was not so high.  

Juan

Truly untouchable? Andrew McCutchen and Pedro Alvarez. That's the list. Probably also Brad Lincoln.

If the Rays called and said Reid Brignac and a pitching prospect for Ross Ohlendorf, we'd do that in a second.  Ditto the Rockies calling and saying Ian Stewart and a pitching prospect for Andy LaRoche.  

The difference from past years, however, is what it would take to get some of these guys.  And that, at least, is encouraging.  Aramis Ramirez was WAY better than Nate McLouth, and yet the returns are not even close. We've ALREADY done better on the McLouth deal than we did on the Ramirez deal.

@BABS - re trading Grabow

He's our only lefty at this time in the bullpen, although JR doesn't seem to be so much of a righty-lefty guy, from what I remember anyways.  Other than Veal, I don't know what we have, depth wise in the minors.

@Leadoff - re Moss

Amen, he's going to be a big part of our future, IMO

Am I in the minority in not caring if they're trading people away?  Morgan was a fun guy, but I didn't think he was part of the long-term solution.  Frankly, I chuckled when Washington counted him as a cornerstone of their team.

It's about time someone commits to a firesale.  If we're going to get rid of a few players, get rid of them all.  Keep Doumit and Capps.  Otherwise, I say we should kiss Freddy, Jack, and Adam goodbye (and maybe Grabow).

Go Bucs!

@BFFL

I think we need more catchers!  HA!

--Except for pitchers, catchers are the most specialized talent on the field.  I don't blame them for stockpiling catcher prospects at all.  They can be great trading pieces when we're filling out the team for our playoff run in 2020.  Seriously though, why not stockpile catchers?

Pirates throwing in the towel on 2009?

I for one do not believe this management team expects to lose anytime, they expect the players they put on the field to perform.

Since pitching and defense are what is keeping this team afloat right now and the pitching especially has made a steady rise in quality since the year started, they can win and be competitive the rest of the year IMO.

If and when they trade away the defense, I would have to see who is taking their places before giving up on the season.

For example if they trade Freddie and Delwyn is his replacement, that would be a defense regression and not even an offensive improvement.