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Post-Gazette beat writers Dejan Kovacevic and Chuck Finder blog about the Pittsburgh Baseball Club.

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Wilson questions trade (now with audio), Salazar coming up tomorrow

By Dejan Kovacevic | 4:27 p.m. Tuesday

Shortstop Jack Wilson questioned the Nyjer Morgan/Sean Burnett trade, one of several players -- again -- palpably bothered by one of general manager Neal Huntington's moves that removes from the current team.

"The bottom line is, even if this trade does work out, it's not going to matter to 80 percent of the people in here," Wilson said. "And over the years, these trades haven't worked. Show me the ones that have worked."

Wilson described himself as "beyond, beyond tired" of such moves.

"We know that they're looking to the future, which doesn't say much about 2009," he continued. "That's probably what's so shocking. We're five games out, and we lost two or three of our everyday players. That's what hits us the most. You can understand if it's the end of July. You see that stuff coming. ... They're businessmen. They're trying to achieve winning baseball in Pittsburgh. The biggest question is: When is that going to be. When do things start turning around? It's just hard for guys who have been here and seen these exact same trades happen and seen it absolutely do nothing. I've been here nine years. I've seen these trades 2 or 3 times a year every year and still haven't had a winning season. You hope, eventually, some of these trades will work out. It's just they haven't yet. They think they're getting deals they can't pass up. I guess. I guess. I guess. Whatever."

On Morgan, specifically, Wilson said: "What you saw on the field wasn't even close to what he brought to the team. That's the type of player, guys those type of caliber, like Jason Bay, Nate McLouth ..."

Audio of Wilson is here.

Adam LaRoche, on the same topic: "It's not our job to understand the big plan, I guess. We've got to do the same thing we did after Nate left, try to keep it together. It's kind of our job as the veteran guys to find the positive in this."

Andrew McCutchen, Morgan's longtime friend: "Yeah, man, you almost want to cry. This [stinks], man. You know, it's a business. It's a a great loss to lose someone like this. Not just on the field, but off the field as well. It's great to have someone like that beside you. There's nobody who can replace what he can do off the field."

Other news related to the two trades today:

> Outfielder Jeff Salazar, pictured at right, will come up tomorrow from Class AAA Indianapolis to take Morgan's place, though the team will not announce that until then. The Pirates will play a man short tonight against the Cubs. This is Salazar's official page.

> Reliever Joel Hanrahan will join the Pirates' bullpen immediately, but outfielder Lastings Milledge will be assigned to the Pirates' rehabilitation program in Bradenton, Fla., "for a week to 10 days," according to Huntington, then to Indianapolis. He will be summoned to Pittsburgh "if he performs," Huntington said. "He'll show us."

> Huntington, on Milledge's many off-field problems: "With maturity and the proper guidance, he was a chance we're willing to take."

> Huntington said the Pirates tried to get Eric Fryer -- from the Eric Hinske trade -- while he was in the Milwaukee system last year. They liked him then as a catcher and, even though he has played almost entirely left field this season. They plan to put him back behind the plate.

> Casey Erickson, the other Class A prospect in the Hinske trade, is a groundball type with four pitches, so the Pirates are weighing moving him to a starting role.

> The 40-man will be full with Salazar's addition.

UPDATE 5:09 p.m.: Huntington, on the players' reaction: "The reality is, anytime you take away one of their friends, you take two or three away in a short period of time, it's unsettling. The human element of the game is something we can't ignore. But our goal is to put an excellent team on the field and not just a bunch of nice guys out there. We hope to put talented people that are very good people, as well. Every move we make is to try to get this team back on a winning track."

Burnett, the Pirates' first-round draft pick in 2000, acknowledged crying upon hearing the news: "It's tough. This is all I know. I know everybody in the organization, from Pirate City up to here. There have been some tears already. They stuck with me through a lot of years, when I was hurt and rehabbing. I really appreciate that. ... You can tell that the front office has a plan, has their own idea of building a team. It doesn't fit the picture, I guess, that most fans or us players have. But players have no say. They've made some tough moves here the past couple of weeks. Today was a complete shock for me. But I guess it's a new road ahead."

Morgan was emotional, too, exchanging intense embraces every which way he turned: "I definitely loved going to war with these boys here. It's unfortunate that I have to go. But that's part of business." ... He was asked what the future holds for the Pirates: "It's kind of hard to tell. I thought I was going to be here a little while, me and Cutch. The M&M boys, we were about to do it. But it's not going to happen."


Posted Jun 30 2009, 04:27 PM by Dejan Kovacevic

Comments

Hammer24 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:38 PM

If the Bucs had a decent replacement you would have to believe JW would be gone too. Does he ever look at the standings ??? What exactly have Nyjer and Burnett and Hinske done this year that makes us a Winner. Guess he enjoys mediocrity....

wakerider429 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:38 PM

If you don't like it Jack, find yourself another team to play for.  Maybe you can ride someone's bench.  Quit whining, baseball's a business, and if your team isn't good, then players need to be moved.

Matt Gajtka wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:39 PM

I love Jack, but he's gotta just bite the bullet here. His complaint reflects badly on him, unfortunately.

Alright, Jack, NOTHING has worked over the past 17 years. Trades are the least of the reasons for the current state of the franchise.

Kraig wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:39 PM

Interesting take by Jack-O. Clearly, Nyjer was well-liked but I like this deal and strongly feel that it's exactly the kind of deal this team should be making.

Bob Robertson's bunt wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:42 PM

Maybe Jack is spouting off to try to force a trade to get out.  Why not, it seems to have worked for Snell.  Trade him, get some young, hungry, talented players here.  In Jack's defense, how long can you hit your head against a brick wall.  It is time for new blood and young talent.  Get it in place, compete for something other than .500, and put the pressure on Nutting to be true to his word and invest in the team.  Let's stop living in this losing past and move on.

What on Earth is left to lose ?

JHadar wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:43 PM

Salazaar -- interesting, wonder if he'll be the one going back down when Millidge comes up?

uglyken wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:44 PM

Sounds like Jack is missing his friends....

Jack.....it's not a pick-up game in the parking lot,,,,.you don't get to choose your teammates. You get paid to play for the fans…….some fans will be split on this, but many will support it.

Be a professional….wish your friends good luck, and welcome your new teammates.

darylethepiratefan wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:44 PM

oh oh, Jack calm down , we need you , Nyjer was a clubhouse favorite but the deal will make us stronger headed towards our playoff push, Easy Jack...You dont want to ruffle any feathers .....

Tor Eckman wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:44 PM

Great move making Milledge earn his was back to the bigs instead of giving him a free pass after completing rehab.  

Fats_Henry wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:45 PM

I like Jack Wilson and all, but who cares if the trade matters to 80% of the players in the clubhouse.  It must be frustrating to see people that you work with and like leave via trade, but that's the nature of the industry.  The team needs to get more talent, and that sometimes involves taking risks.

Let's just hope that 2 years from now we're still not doing this routine.  

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:45 PM

I am sooooooooooo sick of Jack Wilson being the voice of this franchise.  This team will not win until its no-hit, average glove, $8.5 million shortstop is playing elsewhere.  Truly a terrible player and leader.  No doubt many "fans" will miss him when he's gone.  I will not.

NuttingHostage wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:45 PM

Wish Jack hadn't popped off.....he has a point, but it is what it is.....

He probably just ensured this is it for him, one way or another.

Dang. - I was hoping he'd stick around another couple of years.

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:46 PM

I love Jack, but this whining is a joke. He obviously just wants out.  The trade makes us a FAR more talented organization, Jack.  

JAL wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:46 PM

So Indy loses both Jones and Salazar

Thundercrack wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:46 PM

"The bottom line is, even if this trade does work out, it's not going to matter to 80 percent of the people in here," --Jack, the team only cares that the trade does work out.  It doesn't care what the 'people in here' think.  You've been in the majors long enough to know the deal.  Plus your math is off.  It is less than 80%

'one of several players -- again -- palpably bothered by one of general manager Neal Huntington's moves that removes from the current team.'  If the veteran players on this team really think that the players that were on major league roster were good enough to win the division or wild card, and that there was not going to more trades --then there is a bigger problem with the players than we realized.

But I didn't expect them to be happy.

Jeff wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:46 PM

Not only do I like the move, I like Neil's comment... Huntington said. "He'll show us." Milledge will have to earn his spot on the big league roster. No scholarship here.

marty34156 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:46 PM

Strong words from Jack, and considering hes had a chance to leave before and never has and has dedicated himself to this team, this organization, this fan base, this city no one has the right to criticize him for his comments. Also why not call up Salazar tonight? Makes ZERO sense. And why move Fryer back to catcher? Isn't Doumit, Jaramillo, Diaz, LeRud, and Sanchez enoguh? Oh yeah I forgot Doumit will be gone by July 31st 2010, Jaramillo by offseason after '10 season. And they'll probably find a way to screw up with Sanchez, Diaz, and LeRud.

TJK33 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:46 PM

I've always said that Jack was in it more for the pay check... he even said so when they did a story on him and his family a few years ago.  I wonder if I would have a job if I publicly questioned the moves of my bosses... not to mention I wonder what it would do to the morale of those that I work with if I openly questioned my bosses.  

Not sure if Delwyn is a SS or not but he swings the bat well enough...  time to move Jack.... actually think the way he's played lately that his value is probably never going to get any higher either.  

sierotyfeatures wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:46 PM

I agree with Jack. These are just more trades that don't move the team forward. The Pirates would have been much better if some of these recent trades hadn't been made.

If the Pirates were an English Premiere League team they would have been relegated a long time ago to the Championship.

GrayFace wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:47 PM

Long time reader, first time poster.

Here's what I think:  What is with the incessant (sp?) whining from inside the clubhouse with each trade?  Yes he was your friend, and he still can be, but as many of you ballplayers like to say, "It's a buisness".  Don't worry Jack, you'll soon follow your good friends out of the burgh.

Mighty_Swashbucklers wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:47 PM

Dear Mr. Wilson:

Please concentrate on your hitting, show some pop and ability to get on base so that we can trade you for the future too.

I like Jack but I don't like whiners.

TJK33 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:47 PM

Forgot to mention what my point was...  Seems like Jack is more interested in having fun with his friends and collecting a pay check than he is in winning.  

indianafanatic wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:48 PM

There it is NuHo your perfect spot to chime in

Milledge wil only come to Pittsburgh "if he performs".

So now we have traded one of the most popular players for a hamstrung 'possible' but he has a ton of potential. So it looks like Lastings was not the main target but Hanrahan?

What do you say to that, talk about fiscal irresponsibiltiy, you dump a minimum salary of a decent player for a large (mutli million?) contract of a head case who they might not even let come to the show, I feel a red slashy thingy going over my face

JAL wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:48 PM

Hammer

Burnett was not in AAA this year--he has been the MLB team all season.  

Oh the gray men!

NuttingHostage wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:48 PM

I think Neal has no option at this point but to trade all the vets. Wilson, Sanchez, Adam LaRoche, Capps, etc.....

They don't trust him and he can't afford to have them popping off and influencing the new young guys.

Though they have a point, they probably are going to have to go and he needs to rebuild the entire roster from scratch.

I, like the players thought he could have worked with what he had and added to it to bring a competitive club but it's too late for that now.

At this point, wipe the slate clean and go from there but the last thing he can afford is to have a bunch of disgruntled veterans getting in the ears of impressionable young guys.

I wish it weren't the case, but I'm afraid they are going to have to go.

Groat2Maz2Strangeglove wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:49 PM

HostageSage,

Gorkys Hernandez will not play left field for the Pirates.  

He is the future center fielder  .  .  .  .  for when we soon trade McCutch for prospects.

Ya'Zhynka wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:49 PM

I wonder how Andy LaRoche, Brandon Moss, Charlie Morton, Jeff Karstens, and Ross Ohlendorf might feel about Jack's comments. Does Jack think it was a mistake for the Pirates to trade Jeff Suppan for his buddy Sanchez?

Giles for Bay and Perez worked out pretty well. Perez for Nady wasn't so bad.

Cajun Thunder wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:49 PM

Wonder who wins the free trip from Altoona to Indy?? I do believe the biggest reason that Salazar won't be up tonight is because a 40 man roster move will be necessary to bring him up. I'd say that Lerud and Sues are on real thin ice.

marty34156 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:51 PM

Hammer

"As for Burnett. he was in AAA this year, how good is he ???"

He hasn't been at Indy since mid-May of 2008.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

NuHo

"Wish Jack hadn't popped off.....he has a point, but it is what it is.....

He probably just ensured this is it for him, one way or another.

Dang. - I was hoping he'd stick around another couple of years."

I agree 100% with all that, even though I can't blame Jack for going off. Oh well looks like Luis Cruz will be at short if not before for sure after July 31st.

Cajun Thunder wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:51 PM

I stand corrected...a 40 man roster move will not be required to bring up Salazar. I forgot the one that was opened when Monroe got released.

Still in State College wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:51 PM

Don't underestimate what a good SS Jack Wilson has been and is for the Pirates.

He is a hearton his sleeve guy that was almost ruined by the Giles/Kendall clubhouse before he even got started.

tedkin43 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:52 PM

As much as I love Jack Wilson, and I do, he has just moved down a notch or two on my list. The only way this team will ever succeed is to make changes that make sense. A powerless LF with questionable baserunning technique ( I can't even call them skills) will never be the answer for a serious contending team. It remains to be seen if Mr Milledge can mature into the kind of player he apparently has the potential to be. Nyjer was a firey spirited guy who brought a lot of emotion to the team, and I wish him well. Not much to say about Burnett other than I was never real comfortable when he was on the bump, and I can't really explain why so please don't ask. Maybe it was as simple as the hat (as maz suggested) ;-)

jersey joe wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:52 PM

                         OHLIE OHLIE OHLIES IN FREE

mshaffer wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:52 PM

I for one am glad Wilson said what he said.  He's just saying what most Pirates fans have been saying for the past 17 years.  I glad there are still some diehard fans, but this is what the Pirates are and forever will be until they get new owners.  Why pay for good players when you can fill the seats with a fireworks promotion?

FinerKiner wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:52 PM

Shut your trap, Jack, and worry about hitting the curveball.

marty34156 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:53 PM

Gray Face

Welcome to the asylum, now its time for an avatar, tjk mighty and sieroty take heed of this too, just click on JAL's for instructions on how to get one.

Matt Gajtka wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:53 PM

TJK33, I just LOL'd at the possibility of Delwyn doing his Dr. Strangeglove routine at SS.

And marty34156, we have the right to criticize whomever we want. It's a great country we live in.

Thundercrack, you said it best.

Mighty_Swashbucklers wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:53 PM

Milledge signed a one-year contract this year for $452,000 - no big contract here - not an expensive gamble

sports.espn.go.com/.../profile

darylethepiratefan wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:54 PM

@ JAL

Could you possibly give me the skinny on JONES, What type of player is he projected to be, and do you like what you seen thus far from his a numbers ?

SeanE wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:54 PM

Milledge will earn the same as Nyjer....major league minimum.  He is 5 years younger and if you look at last years stats when he was healthy he is already better than Nyjer.  I liked Nyjer as a player, but like Nate, he was NOT going to win you championships.  Milledge is a legit 5 tool guy who was the best prospect in ALL OF BASEBALL 2 years ago.  This is a freakin steal and is why the Nats are the worst team in baseball.  

Admiral Bucco wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:54 PM

Dear Jack Wilson,

Thank you for your imput on the lastest trades. Someday you might make a great GM. Until then, please shut your mouth and play some baseball like you are paid to do.

Thanks!

NuttingHostage wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:54 PM

Groaty.....

Stop being a negative nellie......

I'm trying hard here so how about a little support buddy?

;-)

NuttingHostage wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:56 PM

Indy,

Neal's comments about Milledge is exactly the message he should give the kid.

The kid has as much talent as anyone in our system with the exception of Alvarez. - But he has had maturity issues. He should understand he doesn't have a scholarship and that he is going to have to earn his keep.

Exactly the message he needs to hear right now.

Bob Robertson's bunt wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:56 PM

Hostage, you are absolutely right.

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:56 PM

To all those talking about Jack being harmed by the clubhouse when he came in:

What specific things happened that were so bad?

How is any of it worse than the way Jack reacts every time we bring a new guy in? (Or is it the same? I am genuinely curious about people's take.)

DMac wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:57 PM

All I can say is what a day this has been.

Doc wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:57 PM

How about Yates coming off the 40?

LVPiratesFan wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:58 PM

"And over the years, these trades haven't worked. Show me the ones that have worked."

How about major league reliever Jason Christianson to the Cardinals for minor league SS Jack Wilson?

FormerSoxFan wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:58 PM

I'm not going to give Jack a hard time about his comments.  Burnett and Morgan were teammates, and probably friends, so I can understand where the frustration comes from.  As for his comment, "And over the years, these trades haven't worked. Show me the ones that have worked," well, for most of his time in Pittsburgh it was Littlefield making the trades, so that has to be taken with a grain of salt.

JHadar wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:59 PM

Jack's been hitting OK lately.  That's really not the point though is it?  

marty34156 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:59 PM

Fuzzy

"I am sooooooooooo sick of Jack Wilson being the voice of this franchise.  This team will not win until its no-hit, average glove, $8.5 million shortstop is playing elsewhere.  Truly a terrible player and leader.  No doubt many "fans" will miss him when he's gone.  I will not."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thats the STUPIDEST thing I've ever heard no-hit? Is he not hitting .290? And throw out last year due to injury did he not hit .290 in 2007? And average glove? Hes one of the best defensive SS in the game, Jack is the farthest thing from a terrible player, I never have and never will question his leadership. And many FANS not "fans" will miss him when hes gone because of how much he means to this team and how dedicated he was and still is to winning in Pittsburgh and not for himself but for those so call "fans" of yours Fuzzy. I can honestly say that post was flat out STUPID!

JHadar wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:00 PM

And for what it's worth, with this post I've joined the 3,000 club, but probably not the top 10.

FormerSoxFan wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:00 PM

As for Hanrahan, opponents BABIP was .451, which is absurdly high.  He only gave up 3 HR in 32 IP, so he was largely a victim of bad luck and poor defense, of which the latter shouldn't be a problem now that he's in Pittsburgh.  His performance should improve immediately.

TonyPenaforHOF wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:01 PM

If Jack is serious about playing for a contender, he should sign a team friendly extension, one that reflects his true market value. This would make him more than a rent a player or an overpaid defensive specialist.

I like Jack but he controls his own fate.

CullenH wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:01 PM

Jack Wilson is just irritated that all he has left on his table before games is two candles... he has no more card-playing partners...

And seriously, he needs to quit spouting off. Were Burnett and Morgan the ones who were going to help us win this year?? I think not...

Thundercrack wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:02 PM

Even with Jack 'poppin' off'  I have now changed my opinion and think they should try to resign him for a lesser amount.  He's played good and they have absolutely no one to replace him.    Just put a clause in his new contract not to whine about player moves.

irate fan wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:02 PM

@Thunder - <a 40 man roster move will not be required to bring up Salazar. I forgot the one that was opened when Monroe got released.>

Thank you. I was wondering about who was going to be moved off the 40 man to bring both Jones and Salazar up. I also forgot about Monroe.

leadoff wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:02 PM

Jack, Freddie and Adam LaRoach are all gone anyway, they know they are leaving, so they can say anything they want, who cares.

Ya'Zhynka wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:02 PM

LVPirates Fan

Perfect.

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:02 PM

LV

You're dead on. That trade worked.  As did Scott Sauerbeck and Jeff Suppan for Freddy Sanchez.

Ricardo Rincon for Brian Giles worked out.

Brian Giles for Jason Bay and Ohlie Perez.

Oliver Perez for Xavier Nady.

Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte for Karsty, Ohlie, Tabata, and DMcCutchen.  

Jack Wilson for Jair Jurrjens would've worked too.  

CullenH wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:02 PM

FSF,

Very good point about Hanrahan. Thank you for sharing.

tedkin43 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:03 PM

DY at SS could just be the answer, as long as all the balls are hit within 2 feet of him. ;-)

dtoddwin wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:06 PM

Wow......Jack Wilson should shut up.  I can't believe he is popping off.

stealer6 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:08 PM

burnett was actually having a nice year.  we got hanrahan to be a closer because we are going to try to trade capps.

Cajun Thunder wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:08 PM

When Salazar gets called up tomorrow...we will be able to show exactly how bad our AA and AAA teams are. After Salazar's callup...here will be the top 6 hitters at AAA and AA with at least 100 plate appearances for the Pirates at those levels.

Hector Giminez, C/INF, Altoona/Indy .293

Pedro Lopez, INF, Altoona/Indy, .278

Erik Kratz, C, Indy, .276

Jose Tabata, OF, Altoona, .264

Brian Friday, SS, Altoona, .262

Jonel Pacheco, OF, Altoona, .260

That's it...for the upper 2 levels of the system above .260. Gorkys is at .263 but less than 100 AB.

Notable is the lack of significant prospects on that list. Tabata and Friday are it, and Friday may be a stretch.

The second half may be like watching a train wreck for these two teams. At least Brad Lincoln is pitching tonight...although I expect him to lose 1-0 on an unearned run. Ian's really gonna miss the offensive and defensive support he's been so busy casting under the bus.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:09 PM

Marty,

I'll type slowly so that you can understand.  Jack Wilson is a career .270 hitter with no pop.  He plays B to B+ defense.  He makes $8.5 million.  I will not throw out last year's average because, in the real world, it was BETTER than he normally hits.  In short, if he wasn't a small gamer with bad teeth, Pittsburghers wouldn't love him so much or put up with his pitiful performance and endless talking.

Thundercrack wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:09 PM

"And over the years, these trades haven't worked. Show me the ones that have worked."

How do you think Moss, Olendorf, Karstens and Andy LaRoche feel when they hear Jack say this.

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:09 PM

Jack Wilson:

"What you saw on the field wasn't even close to what he brought to the team."

Yeah, see, that's where you're wrong. What we saw on the field...that IS what he brought to the team.  That's what the team is for, playing baseball.  He didn't do enough to help the team win baseball games.  I would be a fun guy to have on the team too.  I play all sorts of card games, I'm more than willing to set up off-day golf outings, and I can tell great dirty jokes.  But I wouldn't help the team WIN BASEBALL GAMES.  Get back to that, and don't worry about the fact that your buddy was traded. Sure, you miss your buddy. But don't have the audacity to suggest that the team got worse because they traded a 29 year old rookie with no power hitting .275.

papacoach wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:09 PM

I admit at the start of the season I was down on Jack. As time passed he began to grow on me and I was finding myself in the "keep Jack" camp but Jack, if you aren't happy try no comment. If you really want to help your teamgo to Neal and complain not the assembled microphones, PLEASE

Jimbo Slice wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:10 PM

I just want to say, who cares what Jack Wilson thinks?  Who's he ever beat?  Great glove, no hit.  Sure, he may be at .290 now, but where will he be come September?  Right back at his .265, and someone else's problem.  I continue to be amazed at the cult status some of the players in this town achieve, a la Gary Roberts.  I for one will not miss Jack either.  His defense is nearly irreplaceable, but it's not like he's some vital cog on a winning team.

Read Smizik's blog.  Leadership and chemistry are overrated.  Exactly why guys like Jack are overrated and perceived by some to be "great" players.  Scrappy and hard working are no substitute for talented.  

tedkin43 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:10 PM

I'm just wondering if some scamp in the FO went into Neal;s office this morning and changed the calendar to July 30.?;-)

Hang on folks, I got a feeling there's more coming.

Thundercrack wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:11 PM

Glad to hear Adam LaRoche's comments.  He seems to get it.

(and he knows he'll most likely be next)

bjm wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:11 PM

me thinks the starters are hoping for rain until Millings can take the LF post.

leadoff wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:13 PM

FSF

As for Hanrahan, opponents BABIP was .451, which is absurdly high.  He only gave up 3 HR in 32 IP, so he was largely a victim of bad luck and poor defense, of which the latter shouldn't be a problem now that he's in Pittsburgh.  His performance should improve immediately.

___________________________________

Don't forget, the defense that made this team better this year is also being traded away, if you are going to tell me that Washington had worse defensive players than Young in RF, I would like to know who it was.

As soon as Jack and Freddie are traded, we will be similar to

Washington in defense.

JAL wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:15 PM

Delwyn

Jones i no long term option.  He is 28 years old.  Had a good year at Indy with 12 HR and 49 RBI but at 28 has only played 31 games in MLB and that was in 2007 with the Twins where he hit .208 in only 84 plate appearances--hit 2 HR  He was a 14th round draft choice by the Braves in 1999.  Had some good HR years in AAA--24, 21, and 23 in 3 full years at AAA.  Hit 30 in double A in 2004.

tedkin43 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:16 PM

I see both Jack and AMac referred to what Nyjer did off the field as impertant, but IMHO it's what is done ON the field that dictates wins and losses.

I think it would be great if the Pirates banned the media from access to the players immediately after something happens like a trade or a demotion. It might just lessen players having to remove their collectuive feet from their collective mouths.

Srsly

bucskings wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:17 PM

Geez guys, Jack just wants to win.  Of course he's frustrated, I'm frustrated after 16 season and I am just a fan.  I'm not losing every year for ever.  Sports are fun when you win.  He's hitting 290 and playing very good defense, and there is no one in the system to replace him.  Cut the guy a little slack.  Jack, hope you sign here for couple more years.

CullenH wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:17 PM

Look at this crap up on the top of the page.

This is why the Pirates are not a winning ballclub.

Get a pair and move on. You are professionals. I dont want to hear this crying crap. Cripes, no wonder teams make fun of us. We are five games under .500 and crying when we trade our everyday players, like "all of a sudden, we don't have a chance anymore"

Get a grip.

JAL wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:18 PM

JH

Congratulations on 3000

emoneypitt wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:18 PM

So I've seen in a number of places, including here, that McCutchen and Milledge are friends. Is there anything to substantiate this?

Jimbo Slice wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:20 PM

Buckskings

Jack, I hope you pull a Derek Bell and go into Operation Shutdown.  But, I'd settle for Operation Shut Up.

mo wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:23 PM

If the Nationals were willing to do Milledge for Morgan straight up, as it seemed from previous reports, why throw in Burnett for an older, less successful, head case reliever?  He reminds me of Snell from what I see down here in DC, has good stuff but is either afraid to use it, gets too frustrated, or just simply blows it in the bigs.  Not that Burnett is extremely successful, but he's been much better in the bullpen, and at a younger age would make more sense for the "future plan" than Hanrahan does.

JAL wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:23 PM

JH

You may be in the top 3--on this thread Hostage, D-Mac, and I are the only 3 with more than 3000

Pitthomer wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:24 PM

I don't understand why all the focus on Wilson and animus directed at him.  Just look at the trade and it makes little or no sense (for either team).  No one is saying that Morgan or Burnett were the pillars of a contending team, but shouldn't ANY trade have some value.   Milledge is a cancer and in case no one has noticed, Hanrahan is the worst reliever on the worst bullpen in baseball.   I am not sure why the Nats and Pirates would even look to each other for help.

Pgh_fan_in_NH wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:25 PM

Lets give Jack a break. People always complain when players parrot the company line or the same old cliches during interviews. We are getting an honest reaction. It is good to hear what he is really feeling. It shows that the players have invested themselves into this team.  That is a good thing. Hopefully, Milledge can come up soon and make people forget about Nyjer the way Cutch did with McLouth.

johnnyblaze wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:25 PM

Does anyone remember when the Nationals played in Pgh last year, and a Nats player homered and did an excessive celebration? He got chewed out by his manager in the dugout and wouldn't shake his hand after the game? Was that Milledge?

mazfromiowa wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:27 PM

Where is our Hostage? This positive minded goody two-shoes is not our never happy,complaining,Neal hating,FO hating,unhappy about ALL  trades,bitchy about all things money,Fiber One eating,bow hunting,client entertaining,two dog owning Hostage. *whew8

uglyken wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:28 PM

JH  << 3000 posts >>

Congrats!!!

That's a lot of typing

richinomaha wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:29 PM

Quick question: Can the Pirates win the Pacific Coast League?

And to Cullen H, crying or expressing emotions is not why the Pirates stink again. They stink again because they just don't have enough talented players. It's that simple. When they do a better job of identifying and signing quality players-not guys like Daniel Moskos-and attracting quality free agents-not Derrick Bell types-they'll turn it around. It's that simple. Simple but apparently not easy for the Pittsburgh Baseball Club.

Now losing; they have a patent on losing. They can do it all kinds of way and for years. They are consistent but the best part of losing is keeping the Nuttings happy. Cha-ching!

mazfromiowa wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:30 PM

JAL -What about me?BTW we will have over 1,000 posts by day's end.Last time I counted we were near 800.

WhyStanBelinda wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:30 PM

Leadoff- Adam Dunn is a catcus in left field.  Granted I wanted him in the off-season (and the Nats will most likely trade him).  

Nyger and Sean- Thank you for your heart, soul and efforts.  That grit you both displayed will be missed.  

Please welcome "Lastings Lambourghi".

CullenH wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:31 PM

Rich,

Are you really in Omaha? I grew up in Omaha....

marty34156 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:31 PM

Fuzzy

He is more then a small gmaer, he is a bigtime gamer. Offensively with the exception of guys like Rollins, Jeter, Ramirez, Hardy his hitting is about average for SS. If he played for anyone else he'd have at least 3 or 4 gold gloves, so yeah his defense is at least an A. As for his price on most teams that $8.5 wouldn't be that big a deal except Nutting refuses to spend. Hes the glue that holds the infield, the defense, and the team together. Hes a great player even greater person and will be dearly missed by not just Pirates, and Pirate fans, but the city of Pittsburgh when hes gone whenever that mighy be.

tedkin43 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:31 PM

Ahhhh, the bat signal returns ;-)

marty34156 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:33 PM

Congrats shadar!!

richinomaha wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:35 PM

Cullen..yes. I've been here for 22 years.

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:35 PM

People who are saying Milledge is a cancer need to get a clue. At worst, he's immature. Missing a few meetings and high fiving fans after hitting a homerun?  That's not exactly cancer-material.  You know what it means to be a clubhouse cancer? It means you disrupt things and cause others to also disrupt things. It means you spread malcontent.  Milledge didn't do that.  So he ticked off veterans. So what? He'll grow up.

Jack may be playing well -- no, Jack IS playing well -- but his comments are out of line.  This is a very good trade.

AGAIN, for those piling on Hanrahan, do you honestly not understand how preposterously poor the defensive support has been for him?  Look at the numbers...if they'd had the same defenses behind them, Hanrahan's numbers would be better than Burnett's based on the stats posted above (or is it in the last thread at this point?).  He's a good pitcher. Not great, but decent.  He's as good -- or better than -- Sean Burnett.

pattonbb wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:37 PM

I think Jack has earned the right to comment on these annual July "going out of business" deals. He's seen enough of them to understand he'll never play meaningful games after the All-Star game as a Pirate. It amazes me that these deals are looked upon as making this team better. Can someone tell me how the Pirates are better now? Milledge has upside, but so did Chad Hermansen........ Sorry..... that was a really poor comparison. I'll shut up now.

Hanrahan is still a waste of a roster spot, though.

Can't help but think this team is about to fold. Things could get real ugly, real soon.

mazfromiowa wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:37 PM

Hostage-We might be the ONLY team with 3 bow hunters.Jackson is the third.

JHadar wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:37 PM

JAL: -- I think Maz and Jersey Joe are on this thread, so at best I'm 6th and I know there are a few others who are not here today, but far ahead of me.  It's a nice personal milestone though.

BFGrad wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:37 PM

"but outfielder Lastings Milledge will be assigned to the Pirates' rehabilitation program in Bradenton, Fla., "for a week to 10 days," according to Huntington, then to Indianapolis. He will be summoned to Pittsburgh "if he performs," Huntington said. "He'll show us."

This must be the quote of the year. Neal Huntington just traded two serviceable major leaguers for a complete head case. These comments are very similar to the ones he made about Snell showing Huntington knows it. I can hardly stop laughing. For a player like Lastings Milledge who the Nats were anxious to dump and who YOU know has a good chance of never panning out, you don't give up two major leaguers. I'll bet the Cubs GM will beating Huntington's door down to offer Milton Bradley.

You know, the player I feel sorriest for is McCuthen. He is stuck here for the next 5 years to be surrounded by marginal teammates while his ownership group embarks on its endless rebuilding program. Give it a couple years and he will just as frustrated as Wilson.

Now, for some serious analysis. At the beginning of the year the Pirate OF was Morgan-McLouth-Moss et al. The Bucs traded McClouth for a younger version of Morgan in Hernandez and brought up McCuthen making the OF Morgan-McCuthen-Moss, etc. Then the FO turns around and trades Morgan for Milledge, who has lower, but similar career per game and per AB stats, than McLouth. Presumably, the OF will now be Milledge-McCuthen-

Moss, etc. Given the team could have started the season with McCuthen-McLouth-Moss, etc., the gain is about 3 years in age

in Millegde over McLouth. The FO made all these moves and netted

2, count 'em, 2 pitchers, one of whom is a marginal class A prospect.

But you all keep drinking the kool aid Huntington, Coonelly and Nutting are serving up.

JHadar wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:38 PM

richinOmaha -- Is that Omaha Nebraska, Biz is looking for Nebraska for the Pirate nation list.  

marty34156 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:40 PM

Obviously I meant to congratualte JHadar not SHadar oopps lol. ;)

Bloomsday wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:40 PM

Jack is upset? I'm upset...that Jack doesn't know how to take a base on balls. He's part of the problem. Nyjer is only an average player and the Bucs FO saw a chance to get a better player, so they did it. End of story.

Juke wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:41 PM

Long-time reader, first time poster here..

Just wanted to add something that I haven''t seen anywhere today.. Won't most people agree that Lastings Milledge is the perfect type of player that upper management has wanted to play left field for the Pirates at PNC Park for years?  Someone with center field abilities/speed and enough pop that will go along with being a LF..

Just something to think about.. I thought of this as soon as I heard his name getting thrown around a few days ago and wondered why it took so long to finish this deal..

BTW I am dumbfounded how anyone couldn't love this trade, outside of the typical Yinzers that don't understand that we are currently in last place in our division even with Nyjer hustling and being a good clubhouse guy.  This is a trade that the Pirates have to make - and I commend Hunnington for it, because I'm sure he knew there was going to be a lot of backlash both with the fan base and current players.. The only criticism that anyone has about Milledge is that he has attitude issues.. well, its been shown time and time again that a change of scenery can completely humble and change guys' attitudes.. (Weren't the same things / worse things / being said about Tabata last year -walking out of games, bad attitude, etc.?) - Since he came to Pittsburgh we haven't heard anything but rave reviews about him.

macsinthebox wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:42 PM

@ ALL NEWBIES-GRAY MEN

I  notice a bunch of new people here to slam Jack Wilson.

Give the guy a break he has went through some of the toughest years you could ask a guy to go through, we havent fielded a competitive product since he has been here.

All the moves that have been made every year coupled with him being on the block practically every year and he has been a true professional.

So he got emotional today, it happens he's human.

And 4 those of you who think he's a STIFF you need to get a grip. Jack Wilson is one of the better shortstops in the game for a while and if he is traded this blogger wont be all that pleasant that day either.

roxtar wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:42 PM

I suspect Jack, who is currently "beyond, beyond tired", would perk right up if someone offered him 5 years/$45 million.  Friends, fans, bowling fndraisers, all left in a cloud of money scented dust.  Folks in Boston worship the ground Jason Bay walks on, but he'll be in pinstripes next year if the money is right.  

Jack, you are wealthy beyond your wildest dreams, and you became so not just because of your talent, but because you are part of a system that occasionally requires management to make hard decisions.  That $20+ million dollar contract you were offered represented a hard decision; the decision not to sign 5 other guys to $4 million dollar deals.  You take the King's shilling, you do the King's bidding, so suck it up.

JHadar wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:43 PM

Marty -- I figured it out.  Thanks.

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:44 PM

marty

Is your argument really that, other than 12 % of the starting shortstops in the league, Jack is an average hitter?  Its still not really accurate, I'm just curious.  

You're leaving out Tejada, Bartlett, Jose Reyes, Guzman, Escobar, Theriot, Scutaro, and Furcal.  And Tulowitzki and A. Ramirez. And debatably Peralta. And Brignac soon enough.

So yeah, other than the top 15 shortstops, Jack is right there.  If he had enough at bats to qualify, Jack's OBP for a SS would be 13th. Of course, if he had enough at bats, then so might Bartlett, Alex Cora, M. Izturis, Brendan Ryan, Omar Vizquel, Willie Bloomquist, Nick Green, Ramon Santiago, Elvis Andrus, Erick Aybar, Augie Ojeda, and Adam Everett. They are all guys who have over 100 at bats (other than Omar) and a higher OBP than Jack.  So then he'd be 25th.  

But if you eliminate all of the guys ahead of him, he'd be the best.

uglyken wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:44 PM

What's with all this Jack bashing.....give Jack a break.....etc.....

Jack Wilson is supposed to be a professional. He should act like it. He is a good player, a solid SS, and generally a nice guy. I was hoping that we could find a way to keep under a new extension, but he is making it hard to keep him around. I’m starting to worry that HE MAY BECOME A CANCER in the clubhouse.

It was mentioned in one of the above threads…… What effect that this complaining of trades has on Karstens, Dorf, Moss, AnLa, and the new guy that haven’t arrived yet. These are his teammates too…..

Again…….Jack…..wish your buddies good luck, and give your new teammates a warm welcome. It’s not too late to step back, take a deep breath, and realize that this is the exact same way that you were acquired. How would you have liked it if you received such a cold welcome?

pattonbb wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:46 PM

@BayArea - I respectfully disagree with you on your claim that Hanrahan is a good pitcher. 50 hits in 32 innings? You might want to take another look at the stats. Burnett is clearly having a much better season. It's not even close.

marty34156 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:46 PM

patton

"Can't help but think this team is about to fold. Things could get real ugly, real soon."

I agree 100%, if this team doesn't it'll show me alot about their heart.

JayPo wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:46 PM

Outside of Jack not understanding we finally have a decent front office the national media finally gave us some credit for winning a trade:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:47 PM

Juke

Welcome. And yes, you're absolutely right.

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:47 PM

too easy...

                 JUKE HAS HIS DUKE!

NuttingHostage wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:48 PM

Hadar,

"And for what it's worth, with this post I've joined the 3,000 club, but probably not the top 10."

Dude I passed you up like you were standing still.

Much like Huntington hopes to achieve with this draft......quality and quantity.

;-)

FinerKiner wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:48 PM

Looks like Morgan is handling it the best ... and he's the one who got traded.

uglyken wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:49 PM

Juke .....Welcome to The Asylum....

Milledge does fit the profile of the type of player we need to play in our LF....hope he can live up to his potential.

BFGrad wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:49 PM

A question for everyone brushing off Milledge's attitude problems. If given the chance, is this the kind of person you'd hire for your business or want as a co-worker sitting in the desk next to you?

JHadar wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:49 PM

Well folks, it's been a busy day and there's a game yet tonight, but like my psychiatrist said, I must be off.

Thanks to all on the kind words.  In the meantime remember, "I'm pullin' for ya.'  We're all in this together."

NuttingHostage wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:50 PM

Teddy,

"I think it would be great if the Pirates banned the media from access to the players immediately after something happens like a trade or a demotion."

Dude, now why would you want to shackle our favorite intrepid reporter DK?

;-)

daquido_bazzini wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:53 PM

Thank God some people like Jack Wilson have started to speak up and tell the TRUTH that continues to go on & on.

New plan....Baloney!

It's the same plan...the exact same plan...only worse.

Any of you that fall for it should be ashamed of yourselves.

To sit and condone this type of business is hogwash!

Yeah...It's not a good team....but why?

Perhaps because they keep "giving" away every decent player that they've had for the past 17 years!

Garbage in....Garbage out....That's what's happening here.

You just got garbage for Hinske, Morgan & Burnett.

It's a never ending circle, and every fan of this mess is the sucker.

PIG LEGS ROBINSON wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:53 PM

Thank you Jack.

Jack can say what he wants, he's earned the right.

He alone has shaved full points off of some the crappiest pitchers in baseball's ERA's.

I disagree with people bitching about his hitting. His fielding is what he gets paid for. He will have a job as long he continues to field like does.

I can understand Jack's comments because he is in shock like the rest of the team. It's probably best to not comment on something like this until a day or two has passed. I would bet that he realizes that now.

I see a huge lack of emphathy from commenters. People who lack empathy scare me more than anybody.

By the way, Milledge has proven nothing. When he proves he can hit on a daily basis I'll say he's good. Until then, he's not.

I think Milledge has a chance to be a good ballplayer eventually. How soon is up to him.

marty34156 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:53 PM

BAB

I was just naming a few, and I said average and 13th or so out of 30 is exactly what I said average.

mazfromiowa wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:53 PM

ON THE MOUND WILL BE LILLY AND OUR HITTERS WILL BEAT HIM WILLY NILLY

NuttingHostage wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:53 PM

Maz,

Like I always said, I am fair and balanced and willing to compliment when compliments are due.

Today is one of those days.

Thanks for the tidbit on Jackson, I didn't know he was a good bowhunting dude.

;-)

Cajun Thunder wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:54 PM

Johnnyblaze...re commotion in Nats dugout. I believe that it was Elijah Dukes that got chewed on by Acta after a HR against the Pirates. In fact...IIRC...Milledge was actually the peacemaker between Dukes and Acta.

FinerKiner wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:56 PM

To all those questioning Milledge's attitude: Talent trumps attitude every time. Players like Morgan (and relievers) are a dime a dozen and I really think the Pirates hung on to Morgan here for insurance in case Cutch wasn't ready. Now it's time for Young and Pearce to get their shots.

Mark The Shark wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:56 PM

I liked Morgan.  He was a good athlete, but he lacked baseball instinct, like oversliding bases and the two pick offs last weekend.  It was just infuriating to me.  Combine that with his age and lack of power, and he needed to go.  Millidge was a much higher ceiling.  I just hope Doumit and others will take him under their wing.  I agree that we don't need another head case.

WhyStanBelinda wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:57 PM

NutHos- Is Bowden back with the Nationals?  This trade seems like it.

NuttingHostage wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 5:58 PM

Stan,

This sure seems like a Bowden kind of deal doesn't it.....

Good call.

socaldonn wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:00 PM

Classy comments by Burnett and LaRoche.  

As for Wilson, my expectation given his age and tenure would have been to avoid comment until the emotions had quieted down and then show the maturity and leadership qualities his position on this roster and in this clubhouse would seem to mandate.

A disappointment for me as well as a disappointment to some of the younger players no doubt.  As stated earlier in this blog, he should have taken it behind cliosed doors with NH.

As tough as it is to lose nice guys to trade, this club needs to get better players and this was an opportunity to take a calculated risk in an effort to do so.  No brainer.

gerardsmith wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:01 PM

Wilson's comments re. Morgan exactly my sediments (sentiments?).  INTANGIBLES, Bob.  Not necessarily superstar---I been there, done that---authoritative leadership, but warrior, hustling, smiling, friendly, combative, competitive spirit that loved baseball.  A rare commodity these days and worth the price of admission.  And besides, he was McCutcheon's buddy and a bunch of other people's too!  A step backwards for the sake of change.  Not a good PR move for the fans---or the players.  Milledge better pan out or we've jumped into the fire.  

Juke wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:01 PM

@JHadar -  Operating a business and playing baseball are two completely different things.. Would you want Manny Ramirez running your business? I think not.

Would you want Manny Ramirez batting 4th in the Pirates lineup?

/ end discussion.

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:01 PM

patton

You've illustrated my exact point. Hits given up is a perfect stat to look at, as it is LARGELY dependent on defense. Especially when you consider that Burnett and Hanrahan yield almost the same percentage of groundballs.  In fact, Hanrahan gets MORE ground balls...

reposting Whirly's stats:

Hanrahan has a GB%of 47%

Hanrahan's FIP is 3.40 compared to an actual ERA of 7.71

.431 BABIP

3 HR

35 Ks in 32 IP

Burnett has a GB% of 43%

FIP is 4.49 compared to an actual ERA of 3.06

.238 BABIP

3 HR

23 Ks in 32 IP

In other words, though Hanrahan gets 4% more ground balls than Burnett, hitters hit 200 points higher against him than against Burnett on balls put into play.  Neither gives up a lot of homers.  

They're pretty close.

marty34156 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:02 PM

daquido

I'm gonna step in and stop you, yes I've been very critical of this trade but its in large part due to my dislike for Miledge. But look at what NH has done, drafted Alvarez something Littlefield never would've done, trading Ronny Paulino for Jaramillo winner Pirates, trading Jose Bautista for Diaz IMO winner Pirates, Nady/Marte trade winner Pirates, Bay trade is the only deal I feel hes made that the other team got the then better end, McLouth deal I was critical of but have come to be a fan of due to Cutch and it is clear Morton has got the potential to be a great pitcher and I've seen Hernandez play in Altoona hes got some serious talent too, now this one Hanrahan and Miledge both have more raw talent then Burnett and Morgan, but the thing that worries me is Miledge's off field issues. So all and all this new management team is much much much better then Littlefield's clan.

Bizrow wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:03 PM

A good day for fishing

Bucco Nation (40 States in the Union)

Still looking for inmates from the following:

Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Hawaii, Minnesota, North Dakota,

Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Wyoming

Much thanks to thanks to coreybower for knocking Tennessee off the list

We do have 9 countries represented: Australia, Brazil, Canada, England, Germany, Ireland, Phillipines, Scotland and lest I forget, the good old USA

If you are from one of those states or a different country, pls e-mail me, or mates if you see someone, same thing, the posts are a flying today

uglyken wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:06 PM

Wow......this place is filled with a bunch of posting lunatics…..

My quick back of the envelope arithmetic adds up to almost 900 posts already, a full hour before the start of the game. It looks like we are going to blow well past 1000 posts for the day. Have we ever done that before?

special agent johnny utah wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:06 PM

Wilson needs to man up and act like the clubhouse leader that he should be. He should be welcoming the new players etc.

Anyway, my take for what it's worth.

vivaderekbell.blogspot.com/.../2-cents-on-trades.html

Keith Law from Scouts on ESPN said, "Easy win for Pittsburgh, especially with Hanrahan thrown in for free."

jersey joe wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:07 PM
Bizrow wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:09 PM

re - JW

Hey, he's upset, ok, fine, bottom line is who else do we have to play SS, is he a FA after the season or do we own an option?  (sorry, I should know that)

Regarding the trades, IMO if we gave up cash in the Hinske trade, we think we got talent in return, not a salary dump, although its really weird to be sending the Evil Empire with their 1.5 billion Coors Field East....

Second trade is, one man's garbage is another man's treasure, but sometimes one man's garbage ends up as your garbage, we'll see.  Anyone know how many options Milledge has?

And most importantly will the game be watched, commented on on this thread, or the past one, when I checked in there were 120something

TJK33 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:10 PM

Didn't Brian Giles and Jason Kendall have bad attitudes as well?  How about that Barry Bonds?  If you start winning on the field no one cares about the attitude.

pattonbb wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:10 PM

BayArea, I respect your argument and your math. I hope he proves me wrong. I just can't get excited over a pitcher with an era of almost 8.00. I don't care how many ground balls he gets, people are still making a lot of contact and putting the ball in play off of him.

Sorry Man, it's still not close.

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:12 PM

marty

Paulino and Bautista! Those are two more trades to point Jack to.  Both of those were also easy wins.  

As for Lastings:  he hasn't had "off the field" issues in the sense that he's gotten into any trouble with the law or anything.  Its just maturity issues.  What he needs is a good manager and a good opportunity.  Let's hope he's getting both here.  But again, its not like he's a *bad person* as DK pointed out earlier (via a source).  He's been immature...but he was the top overall prospect in baseball and in the bigs at 21 for the New York Mets.  I'm not sure how mature I would be either.

Wabbit_Season wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:16 PM

Oy.

Enough already.  Listen, friends, Jack Wilson has every right to say what he thinks.  But we have to put it in context.  He is the most tenured Pirate and has earned the right to sound off.

Jack's reaction was an emotional one.  If you look at it, as one poster earlier did, Jack isn't thinking about the trade that sent his tormentors Giles and Kendall away.  Nor is he thinking about the trades that did work out.  And there have been some good ones.  He's just saying that the team mates he's losing were good guys.  No contest on that point.  But having two number one picks patrolling your major league outfield isn't going to suck either.

Jack's reaction when Milledge hits the game winning home run will be "Welcome aboard, Matey!"

I would say kudos to the management for having thick enough skin to allow the guy, after all his tenure here, a little rope and understanding what he's really saying.

I'm not always on the same page with NutHo & Co. but the truth is we traded away a leadoff hitter for a #3 hitter.  Much as I loved Morgan, I like the trade.

"Tell me more about my eyes!!!!"

Wabbit

gerardsmith wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:16 PM

Well, with Hanrahaniran, Joe should fix his wagon with a few tweaks here and there.  If it still squeaks, pass the WD40.  For getting mileage outa Milledge, nothing a good sports' shrink shouldn't correct.  Judging from Ian's recovery, a stopover at Indy might be the ticket.  Must be the water in Pittsburgh.  

PIG LEGS ROBINSON wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:17 PM

I recall that the Rockies were interested in Hanrahan at the beginning of the season. Also heard that the Rockies had talked to Neil about Snell. Now I realize this gets me NO SOUP, but do I smell a package deal on the horizon?

uglyken wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:18 PM

Biz  << most importantly will the game be watched, commented on on this thread, or the past one, when I checked in there were 120something >>

We have over 120+ on almost every thread today....I think that DK should give us another for posting during the game....however, if we wait a few minutes.....there may be another trade announcement thread going up the way things are going today.

macsinthebox wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:18 PM

"I’m starting to worry that HE MAY BECOME A CANCER in the clubhouse."

@ UGLY KEN, I respect your take a lot but do you honestly believe that?

What Jack said was unfortunate i agree but a "CANCER"  come on i dont buy that for a second.

daquido_bazzini wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:19 PM

Marty.....Now I'm going to stop you.

What you are talking about is business as usual with the Pirates.

They signed Alvaraz....Big deal!....We're supposed to be excited about drafting the right person?!

ALL of the trades that Neil Huntington have made are terrible, and I stand 100% behind my statement now....and a year from now.

Most of the trades you mentioned are minor trades ala Paulino & Bautista.

Everytime I hear the Nady deal was good I could scream!

Just because Nady is hurt does not make it a good deal.

Ohlendorf is a 500 pitcher....a 5th starter at best.

Jose Tabata can't even choose the right wife, and he's "floundering" in Double A.

These trades flat out "stink"....and everyone is going to know it in the next year or so.

Bizrow wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:19 PM

Two other comments regarding the trade of Nyjmo

One good thing is we will not be playing that (put in your own word here, mine would not pass the censors) No Triple Defense

The other is, honestly, could we really challenge for anything with the outfield of Nyjmo, Mc Cutch and whoever?  Moss hopefully, BTW who has the title to the Nyjmo bus?  A few of us would like to buy it and change it to the Magical Mosstery Tour Bus

I do like the way Nyjmo played, ripped him in ST, grew to respect him as a person and a player, go get em Mr. Morgan

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:20 PM

Wow...check out this lineup of Pirates pitchers tonight in the organization:

AAA -- Brad Lincoln (top prospect)

AA -- Mike Crotta (okay, not so much)

High A -- Jeff Locke (a top prospect)

Low A -- Rudy Owens (a rising prospect)

That's a pretty important list.

KMRempel22 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:20 PM

My head is spinning and I am going to take a step back and hang on for dear life before I comment on this day.

Maybe it's the wine...

BFGrad wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:22 PM

Here's McCuthen's comment. Are we going to trade him now, too?

Andrew McCutchen, Morgan's longtime friend: "Yeah, man, you almost want to cry. This [stinks], man. You know, it's a business. It's a a great loss to lose someone like this. Not just on the field, but off the field as well. It's great to have someone like that beside you. There's nobody who can replace what he can do off the field."

You know what the team across the river - the one with a championship -  that is also built around a young captain did when their captain developed a good relationship with an older established player? They re-signed him for another year. This is why the Pirates are losers and show no signs of breaking out of this cycle.

Vinnie69 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:25 PM

Shut up and WIN... then the trades will stop... Otherwise quit complaining...

I'm Beyond Beyond Tired of Jack Wilson and others talking about how great his teammates are while they continue LOSING!!!

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:25 PM

patton:

"I don't care how many ground balls he gets, people are still making a lot of contact and putting the ball in play off of him."

Well, actually, they're putting it in play far more often against Burnett.  They're striking out more often against Hanrahan.  Its just that when the ball IS put into play off Hanrahan -- and again, more often on the ground than for Burnett -- the plays are not being made behind him.  Whereas for Burnett, the plays were being made at an almost astonishing clip.  A .238 BABIP-against is just unbelievable.  Again, that is not batting average against, that's batting average of balls in play against.  That means that when hitters put the ball in play (not a homerun) it only falls for a hit 24% of the time.  That's UNHEARD OF.  The average hitter has a BABIP of around .300-.350.  Sometimes higher.  (The reason their batting average is lower is obvious: strikeouts are not balls put into play.)  Hanrahan's defense was truly unimaginably bad behind him.

Cajun Thunder wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:26 PM

BAB...re tonight's minor league starting pitchers.

At Indy and Altoona...pitchers are going to need to hold the run counts very low if they want to win any time soon. There's no offense at either level right now.

Bizrow wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:27 PM

@Wabbit - re -JW

Good post, was thinking about it, Nyjmo and Burnett actually cried, you grow bonds and friendships, like you do at work or college or whatever, Jack is being emotional, professional is what I want at bat bases juiced, two out against a nasty reliever, he'll bounce back

@Uglyken - re - where to blog for the game,

Thanks, you are right, will eat, watch FSN and find where the rec room is tonight.

An interesting day, and at least no word Sano has signed with another team.  Posting records will be broken, IMO the next July 31st event

pattonbb wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:28 PM

Re - "I'm not sure how mature I would be either."

God knows I would have been a mess.

I'm not calling Lastings a cancer, or accusing him of having any off the field problems. All I'm asking is for someone to give me an example of him showing he's worth the hype. People are acting like he's never made it out of AAA yet. He was hurt while playing in AAA because he was DEMOTED. Demoted by the Nats, no less. He has almost 900 career big league at bats. I dare anyone to look at his stats and see something to get excited about, besides his age. I admit I haven't paid much attention to him since he left NY. But if everyone thought he was such a stud, would he really be on his 3rd team?

Is Nyjer better than Lastings? I'm not saying that. But I would argue that it's a heckuva lot closer than anyone thinks.

FormerSoxFan wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:28 PM

"BayArea, I respect your argument and your math. I hope he proves me wrong. I just can't get excited over a pitcher with an era of almost 8.00. I don't care how many ground balls he gets, people are still making a lot of contact and putting the ball in play off of him."

Actually, since he strikes out batters at a much higher rate than Burnett, and has given up the same # of HRs, batters are making less contact against him than they are against Burnett.

More ground balls are getting through, partly due to bad luck, partly due to poor defense.

lahida wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:29 PM

You people are NUTS. Jack is a consummate professional and a great guy. He wants to win. Trades which emasculate the current team demonstrate to good players a lack of faith by management., i.e. Wilson, Sanchez, Maholm, Doumit, Capps, McCutch etc.. Nutting is a cheap owner. He will ruin the Pirates and Seven Springs along with it. He is a "bottom line" man. Keep looking at fireworks you idiots... because that is all you deserve. Great Job, Jack

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:29 PM

daquido

The Nady trade was a great trade in part because they got so much for Nady, who is injury prone.  Its not like he had a freak accident, this is a man who misses significant time with injury ever year. Its part of his value, and it really says something that we got four quality players back.  

Also, Tabata is "floundering" in what universe?  He's a 21 year old hitting .264 at AA with a .362 OBP.  That's not floundering for ANYONE. Especially not for someone so young for the level of ball.

madturk2008 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:29 PM

Uglyken

I have to agree with your earlier post and your last one as well about Jack.  Well said both times.

Just glad to see Freddy staying quite for now.  Maybe he wants to keep his job, salary and continue to play the game here (At least I have not heard from him).

WELCOME NEWBIES ! I see you have been directed to the nurse and meds and such.

Someone said something about banning the media after a trade.  I think that would be good as well.  At least until the players have a chance to digest the trade and get their emotions in check/ Then maybe they can present themselves better in the media.

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:31 PM

ANTS MARCHING =================

boruboru27 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:31 PM

i loved Nyjer Morgan, but I can't disagree with this trade.  Some here say Hanrahan was the worst pitcher from the worst bullpen in the majors, but the truth is he was the pitcher with the highest upside in that bullpen.  for anyone here to say Lastings Milledge is a cancer is really hard to prove.  many young guys do or say stupid things.  and normally something clicks for that person and they finally get it.  Morgan was nothing but a stopgap for this team.  Milledge has a ton more upside.  worst case is he is just as good now.

i'm disappointed in what Jack Wilson said, and think it made him look stupid, but i give him a pass.  i'm sure Nyjer was much loved in that locker room.

and please do not bore me with the typical "drinking the kool aid" comments.  that belittles your own stance.  almost everyone in here truly does their homework and back up their opinions with sound reasons.  

WhatThePuck wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:32 PM

Well i guess that hometown discount Jack Wilson was going to give the Pirates is gone. We should trade him up to Detroit where he would fit in with all there whiny ass fans. Come on Jack this isnt some boys club.  This is the Major Leagues or at least thats what the Pirates continue to telll us.

pattonbb wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:34 PM

OK Bay, your numbers are impressive, but I'm sticking by my guns. That ballooned era of Hanrahans is due to a lot more than bad defense. You want to see bad defense? Wait a couple weeks when they finally deal Jack and Freddy. That era might be in the teens by season's end.

Cajun Thunder wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:34 PM

Pirates now are down to 6 players on the 25 man roster that have spent their entire professional time with the Pittsburgh organization. They are:

Cutch, Pearce, Capps, Duke, Grabow and Maholm.

CullenH wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:36 PM

This was a BUY LOW and SELL HIGH in the same deal

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:37 PM

patton

I'll look at his stats and show you things to get excited about:

Batting average: .261. Identical to Nate McLouth's.

Homers: 25.  A lot, in my opinion, for a 24 year old.  

Extra base hits: 40 in 2008, or 1 every 13 at bats.

Stolen Bases: 24 last year, 72.7% success rate. Nyjer's at 64% this year.  65% for his career.

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:39 PM

patton

No disagreement from me on this point:  We need to keep Jack and Freddy if we want the "better defense" to persist here in Pittsburgh.

uglyken wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:39 PM

mac << I respect your take a lot but do you honestly believe that? >>

It depends if he is just popping off without thinking (I would hope he was mature enough to be above that), or if he's truly upset (perhaps disgruntled). Either way, I don't like it. I think our best option at SS looking toward the next couple years is JW. I want him to be on this team as it will exist after July 31. His speaking out at this time can be an issue to the new players. He can't undo what has been done. Why not keep his gripes behind closed doors, wish his exiting buddies good luck, and give the new guys a warm welcome?

boruboru27 wrote re: Wilson questions trade, Salazar coming
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:40 PM

remember that Lastings Milledge was considered the #1 prospect in the Mets organization two years in a row before the Nats got him.

And Hanrahan is considered a future closer.

tedkin43 wrote re: Wilson questions trade (now with audio), Salazar coming up tomorrow
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:43 PM

special agent johnny utah wrote :"Keith Law from Scouts on ESPN said, "Easy win for Pittsburgh, especially with Hanrahan thrown in for free."

That tears it. If Keith Law likes it, it must be a terrible trade for the Pirates ;-)

Again, time (and only time) will tell how good or bad  the trade was

daquido_bazzini wrote re: Wilson questions trade (now with audio), Salazar coming up tomorrow
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:46 PM

Hey....A .264 average at Double A is floundering.

Tabata is always hurt too!

Nady was someone that was "deal-able", but it WAS NOT a good deal.

These "deals" are...and have been....atrocious.

They're a disgrace, and the only reason they're even considered to be ok by some, is because upper echelon teams have cracked down on teams like the Pirates.

They won't cave in and give "real" players or prospects, as they know someone like the Pirates will eventually give anything they have that is good...for unproven garbage....unproven total garbage.

johnnyblaze wrote re: Wilson questions trade (now with audio), Salazar coming up tomorrow
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:48 PM

@Thunder,

      Thanks for the reply. I actually found the story and you are right. Dukes hit a double, Milledge homered, and then Dukes started that stuff with the celebration and the manager. I wasn't trying to make Milledge look like a bad guy (I actually like the trade), I just remembered the incident and was trying to remember who the player was.

DMac wrote re: Wilson questions trade (now with audio), Salazar coming up tomorrow
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:56 PM

For anyone wanting PBP...it will be in the pre-game lineup thread.

:-)

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Wilson questions trade (now with audio), Salazar coming up tomorrow
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 7:11 PM

I'll go ahead and reiterate:

ANTS MARCHING ==========================

and for those heading to PBP (and yes, I know I used this once before...)

============================ GNIHCRAM STNA

socaldonn wrote re: Wilson questions trade (now with audio), Salazar coming up tomorrow
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 7:16 PM

lahida,

Good, salient points.  Thanks for putting so much thought into your comments.  

These trades are not about the current major league roster.  These deals have been about creating the long-term viability of the franchise.   If you ever want to see this team compete consistently for the next ten years then it needed to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up.  Same plan, yes.  New players in the FO, yes.  Time will be their judge.  If it doesn't work, fire NH and FC.  Then roast BN as much as you choose for picking the wrong people to do the job.  I believe that in the two years as principal owner, he has made some good calls.  In that light, FC and NH have made some good calls as well.  Not every decision will be the right one.  At the end of the day will they make more good decisions than bad?  That's the goal and we should expect them to be held responsible for those decisions.  Is there a lack of faith in the current roster?  Probably to a large degree, based on the fact that they lose more than they win.  But, the largest factor behind the trades is that the major league assets are being used to restock the system.  That's just the reality.

I don't agree with all of the postings here but for the most part people are respectful of each other's opinions and will state their case, for or against, with passion, logic and whatever knowledge they possess.   The vast majority of folks on here are Pirate fans and just want the team to be successful.

Let's Go Bucs.

kdrtoona wrote re: Wilson questions trade (now with audio), Salazar coming up tomorrow
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 7:28 PM

Oh my the Pat Meares shrine must be crowded these days...

I don't blame Jack for saying what he feels; Baseball is unlike any other sport in the amount of time that teammates spend together. 6 to 8 hours a day, for nearly 8 months a year (I've heard there are games played after September) the team battles together, so when popular players is dealt again and again I imagine it wears on you.  

But what I do fault Jack for is his perspective. Six games out (also know as last place), six games under .500 and 12 games under .500 against division opponents is not heading in the right direction.  Can you call it progress compared to last year? Sure, why not, knock yourself out but last time I checked "Improvement from last year"and a buck oh five is good enough to get a cheap cup of coffee.  It's time the Pirates stop patting themselves on the back for getting closer and actually get there... I'd love Jack to be here when it happens but if he ain't, he ain't...

PI Stingray wrote re: Wilson questions trade (now with audio), Salazar coming up tomorrow
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 8:10 PM

Just woke up to the news of the trades. Love the Hinske trade. Bucs get some possible prospects for a guy that's a bench player and gone after the season anyway. The Morgan-Burnett deal caught me a little off guard as I didn't expect Sean & Hanrahan to be included. Just looked up Hanrahan in the SN 2009 Yearbook and it says - "When he's right he'll run it to 96 mph with good arm-side sink and a hybrid breaking ball that's between a slider and a cutter." Let's hope Joe K. can make sure Hanrahan is "right'!

lahida wrote re: Wilson questions trade (now with audio), Salazar coming up tomorrow
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 8:48 PM

Socaldonn

Yep.. Nutting and the rest have sold you a BILL OF GOODS

Not much thought has to be put in here, understand?

Lets face -the Pirates will never compete because of cheap ownership. It will be a constant turnover of players who have reached their peak, command a good salary and will be shipped off  because of a lack of desire to pay.

Check back in 4-6 years and let me know

Doc wrote re: Wilson questions trade (now with audio), Salazar coming up tomorrow
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 9:23 PM

I am sorry, what did Jack say wrong? Which of these trades HAS paid off for the major league club yet???? Maybe the Nady trade.  If you are lookibg at major league talent ( which is basically what JW is looking at) Only The Nady trade has brought more back than the MLB team lost.

Additionally,  I work at a hospital that recently had significant layoffs of some of the best people we had. It was necessary to keep the place going, but difficult for me because :

the new cheaper nurses don't do as good a job taking care of my patients ( although they are learning and may eventually be better.)

I lost a lot of good friends whom I enjoyed working with.

Now as I step back I realize it was best for the organization, but from my point of view right now, it isn't. So I am going to cut Jack some slack. All of you recommending the Pirates dump Jack, please tell me who you want to place SS? Bixler? Wanna see the ERA go up a half run?

He'll get over it, or he will be gone, but a guy who is upset his friends are gone and who sees the moves today leading to more losses, and who hates to lose. I have no problem with that

pattonbb wrote re: Wilson questions trade (now with audio), Salazar coming up tomorrow
on Tue, Jun 30 2009 9:31 PM

Uh... BayArea..... so you'd rather have Lastings over Nate McLouth? And 25 homers spread out over almost 900 at bats gets you excited? How about the 187 strikeouts? What about the poor defense that got him sent down in the first place. Or was it the missed team meeting on opening day? I get them all confused.

OK, I'm done beating these horses. Believe me, I hope I'm wrong. And if I am, I promise you won't have to say "I told you so". I'll be the first one to admit it.

socaldonn wrote