Another trade expected soon

HERE YE, HERE YE.

Is Nyjer a fan-favorite because he wears stirrups and chews massive amounts of tobacco everyday?  

I would like to pose this question:  What if the inmates (all of yinz) ran the asylum?

I understand wanting Milledge and his potential, but come on now. Nyjer is the only guy other than Cutch that brings exitement.

Nooooooooo. . .

I would welcome this trade, we need more power (and talent) in our lineup and we get a guy 5 years younger.  I love Nyjer but with McCutchen up in Pittsburgh there's only room for one center fielder, so I will wish him well in Washington.

Well, with Snell gone(ish), we do need a resident headcase.

With Milledge still on the DL, who would come up in the interim?

If it moves Freddy to the 2 spot, I am all for it.

The 4 Horseman outfield of Jones, Milledge, McCutchen & Moss.

I like it.  they made some nice safe trades to beef up the minors. sold high on mclouth and got 3 nice players (one being a 4th- 5th starter.) Nyjer is a fun player to watch and one of my favorites.  but you can't build a team with no power in the leftfield regardless of defense.  

this is their first time they are going to take a chance on someone. Hopefully we can calm Lastings down. And if we get anyone else from them it will just show how dumb the Natonals are.

Ugh...

I live in the greater NYC area, so i've heard all the hype surrounding this guy for years now, since he started in the Mets organization.  I have no idea why the PBC would do this - I understand trading Morgan at his highest level (a la McLouth), but we just got rid of a head case with Snell, why bring another one?

Any word on whether this would be a straight up deal, or would the Bucs be getting someone else?

So does this mean that the Nationals see Morgan as their present and future CF'er/Leadoff hitter? They are obviously not going to be competing this year. Does it mean that they do not like what they have with Milledge. Has he been a problem for them?

As I said yesterday, how many people would have expected a straight-up Morgan-for-Milledge trade at the beginning of this year?

Anybody know Milledge's contract status?

When we talked about this the other day, the guys who like Milledge really like him -- faster more powerful version of Nyjer; the ones who don't point to his personality issues and that two clubs have "given up" on him already.  Those who like Morgan like his speed, personality, and excitement factor and think he is coming into his own.  Those who don't feel he's too old to be breaking in, has reached his peak, and is not playing all that well despite his popularity.

Choose sides.

This trade would be great (yes, NuHo, GREAT) because it would get Jeff Salazar to Pittsburgh while Milledge recovers....and that should just about ensure that either Gorkys or Tabata goes to Indianapolis.  For that reason, I would like it.

I think the point of BuccosNYC is a good one: people like NyjMo because of his stirrups and the notion that running fast means he's trying really hard.  He's been decent for us, but he's never going to be a star.  I will always ride the NyjMo Bus, but if we can get a talent like Milledge, I say do it.  

Of course, what I would REALLY like, is to get a talented MIDDLE INFIELDER on the level of Milledge.  But that's probably WAY too optimistic.  

I would rather get another player with the deal, but would definitely welcome a 1 for 1 swap.  I like Nyjer, but he is 29 and lacks the power we need.  Milledge is a headcase, but who knows, maybe he grew up.  It's worth the risk in my opinion.

I wonder if Neal was able to squeeze Washington for anything else besides Milledge?

Forget about attitudes and charisma and chemistry--this is a good baseball trade.

Nice knowing you Nyjer.  But, you're 29 years old and you're best baseball days were spent in the minor leagues.

I like this trade a lot!  Just wonder how it's going to affect McCutchen mentally.  Nyjer and him are buds.  

Bonus would be to get Milliedge and a minor league starter.

Wow...looks like many of you have decided to take off the "love that excitement" blinders to examine this deal.  Congratulations.

I would send Pearce back to Indy.... he really isn't doing anything here and the reason he came up rather than Jones in the first place is they would have had to clear a 40 man spot for Jones.

I like Nyjer, but the Pirates are going nowhere with him. Milledge is like playing roulette. A win is a big win, but he may very well flame out. But for the FO, Nyjer was holding a spot for Gorkys. ( BTW... someone suggested Gorkys goes to AAA. I'd wait til his BA is over .300, not .260.)

I don't think we got much for Hinske, but I don't think we deserved much.

Now if we can somehow get a decent backup ss, we can dump Vazquez.

jefft

Milledge is on a 1 year contract signed in Feb.  WEith 3 MLB seasons he should be arbitration eligible next season.

If Nyjmo goes in a 1-1 swap for Milledge I say no.

If we can get something else as well, then I say doo it (remember..........QUALITY AND QUANTITY).

Neal and Frank doing what they do.  BLOW IT UP!

Calm everyone--DK says there is nothing final on this.  Remember when Wilson was traded to the Tigers?  Only he wasn't.  

Holy cow!  I know my first reaction to this is whyyyyyyyyyyy (Milledge's head-case issues outweigh NyjMo's being too old to be a star).  It makes sense, though, because this trade is consistent with the others this FO made.... sell high, buy low.  It works even with no one else in the deal, but I am hoping the Bucs get at least a prospect, too.

Worst case, the Pirates will sell Milledge high in 3 years for even more value.

There's a big difference between a head case that produces (Manny) and a headcase that stinks (Snell, Milledge).  I've been living in NYC and have seen first hand what a lost cause this guy is.  Tons of bark, no bite.  Dumb trade - I don't even understand it from a salary dump perspective, since Milledge is closer to a real contract.

Milledge might be a little manic but the PBC is the nut house correct?  We might have the perfect manager to deal with this guy.  JR = Valium.  I'm a surprised that there arent more naps in the dugout.

Didn't we turn down a straight up deal Millings for Nyjer

I wonder why all of this is going on right now?  Its the end of June, not the end of July

@pattonbb - re - next three to get traded

Not counting Nyjer, AdLa, Grabow and a real surprise (similar to Nate)

New faces, hmmm

Bucco Nation (38 States in the Union)

Still looking for inmates from the following:

Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Hawaii, Minnesota, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Washington, Wyoming, thanks to coreybower for knocking Tennessee off the list

We do have 8 countries represented: Australia, Brazil, Canada, Germany, Ireland, Phillipines, Scotland and lest I forget, the good old USA

First of all, we don't have to trade Morgan, if someone wants him, then they will have to give the Bucs what they want for him or they don't get him.

Hopefully they will get more for him than a project for Morgan, we have enough projects now.

If Milledge is that good, why are the Nats willing to part with him?

I tend to like the potential of Milledge.  Isn't Cutch supposed to be a pal?  I really like NyMo's energy and personality but seems like a no-brainer from a baseball side.

If you are not winning, it is nice to have a team to cheer for that you actually like.

dubers15801

with over 100 posts isn't time for you to come up to majors and get an avatar instead of remaining in the minors.

Just click on my avatar for instructions on adding one.  Many of us agree avatars make following the posts a lot easier.

Thanks JAL.

Straight up, I think I like this trade...anything else received would be a bonus. Seems like the kind of move a good FO should make...selling a player at his highest point for a chance at a legit player under control for a while.

A busy day, I see.

I'm indifferent to the Hinske trade.  Nyjer?  Interesting.  If we can turn Milledge into a grownup, this could work.  He's still very young.

Since we are trading Adam, Freddie and Jack, trading Morgan should not be a problem.

Our AAA team is depleted and we need some talent there, so I would assume that Neal will be looking at AAA talent in return for these guys, he has stocked his A and AA teams this year and last, but the AAA team was stocked mostly with pitchers since Neal got here.

There's obviously something to be excited about when it comes to Milledge because of all the chances he's received, and the hype surrounding his talent.  He's only 24 and could be a legitimate solution in left field as opposed to a tolerable solution like Morgan is.  

Washington clearly wants a leadoff man and let's also not forget their front office reputation mostly stinks too, so if it's a bad trade for them would anyone really be surprised?

I'm with Dan and T-Long.  I don't mind the trade but would like to get more than a 1 - 1 in the trade.  I think we're in the driver's seat with this one.

As for the Hinske trade, I like it I guess.

He was a bench player on a one-year deal.  As for the two guys they got, hey, who knows.  Chances are they don't really amount to major leaguers, but it's a couple more arms to try out, and see what happens.  Nothing earth shattering though.

I could see a scenario where Jack and Freddie stay.  If you have Milledge, Cutch and Doumit in the OF.  LaRoche, Jack, and Freddie in the IF.  Catch Diaz or Jaramillo and you are only trying to fill one hole and that is at 1B.

I think that line-up can win with decent pitching.

DK's update seems to indicate if the deal goes through, Milledge would walk right into Indy.  Maybe the Bucs will save money conducting group therapy with Milledge and Snell attending the same sessions.

Hinske trade is good. It should be compared to what we got for Monroe.

Milledge is a head case and the FO will regret acquiring him. He's going to cause them so many headaches...

This is insane. If Lastings Milledge was such a super prospect, why has he been traded twice? Word in the NY papers is he was "despised" in their clubhouse.

What has he shown you in his 895 career mlb at bats to warrent the hype? is it his .260 average? Or the fact that the worst team in baseball is willing to deal him a year after giving some quality players up to the Mets for him?

If I hear one more person say it's better to lose with a younger lineup, I'll get sick. I can't stand the thought of Milledge wearing a Pirates uniform.

@BuccosNYCpc If the inmates ran the asylum, they'd just hire a Baseball America writer to be the GM.  Or bicker, they might just bicker.

Anyways, on one of my last posts in the last thread I refuted the idea that this kind of news would be irrelevant in a big city. The NY Post had eight reasons why the Yankees made the Hinske move.  That's eight reasons justifying the Hinske trade, and you don't think winners are interested in playing front office.  Since fantasy took off, this is what sports fans do these days, we'll always dissect and obsess over even the most insignificant moves.

I'm not sure if anyone knows this or not, but a girl I knew in college was Ian Snell's ex-girlfriend.  She found out that he was married and has a kid/kids after a post game interview where he said hello to his wife and kids.  She obviously was *** off, so she broke it off with him.  He kept trying to get back with her and she had to get a restraining order put on him.  He is a nut case.

Can anyone tell me what sense it makes to get rid of Freddy or Jack??  We have no one behind them even close to their abilities and neither would fetch much of anything in a trade.  How would this help or improve the team in any way?  To me, the only guy I'd get rid of is Adam LaRoche.

SiSC

could see a scenario where Jack and Freddie stay.  If you have Milledge, Cutch and Doumit in the OF.  LaRoche, Jack, and Freddie in the IF.  Catch Diaz or Jaramillo and you are only trying to fill one hole and that is at 1B.

I think that line-up can win with decent pitching.

_____________________________________

The reasons they are gone is because they are the building blocks to the future, how? because they will bring the talent that the team needs in their system that is not there now.

They also are not part of winning, the Pirates can't win with them, so losing without them is okay, because trading them gives us building blocks to the future. If we keep them we do not progress, we just get older.

Could we break 500 with them? possibly, but that is not the goal.

pattonbb: What hype? he's possibly being traded for Morgan. a guy that has yet to spend a full season with the Pirates.

Milledge is only 24. already played a couple years in the majors. young, immature sure. i just think he's a little young to be labeled as some lost cause.

I would like to welcome Lastings by having each and every last one of you remove your Avatar!!!

Wow, T-Long.... that's quite a tale.

If we get Milledge, can we package all the nutcases together in one deal and see what we can get for them?  Should be worth more as a complete set (like when you have all the issues of Action Comics' first year).  We can trade Snell, Milledge, and Tabata's ex-wife.  

Honestly, Tabata's ex-wife has the highest OBP of the set.

Do it. Bucs need some homers. I like Morgan, but he's an average ballplayer. Milledge can be very good.

@T-Long

This story could easily be made up I don't really see why anyone on here would care.

How sad, we have to go out and get a 24 Yr. old nut case, can't we do better for Morgan?

@ T-Long

Wouldn't that make her ex-mistress?  Just saying if he was married when they were dating, that's mistress.  Also, what are you trying to do break up a happy home?  Don't you know that Ian's father-in-law regularly reads all these negative comments about his son-in-law and then passes them along as a vote of confidence?

"Well if ya don't know, now ya know, *****" - Notorious B.I.G

This FO is trying to put me 6 feet under. srsly. I have given up attending anything even remotely associated to this FO when Nate was traded. Now being one of the drivers of the NyjMo/"Tony Plush" bandwagon from last year (and yes I hear what everyone is saying about him long term and his age etc...) believed that he would in fact greatly improve his defense which he did rather nicely. He no longer attempts to steal short stop. He can handle the bat effectively (albeit limited power) He has become a fan favorite (NO reason to keep a player) but if they (FO) have "given up" on this season why not keep him around to keep puttin money in your already fat wallets by keeping butts in seats.

I know nothing about this injured/rehabbing OF Milledge, other than he is/was supposedly highly regarded and is/was a diva like headcase. IF (and I do not have the facts) is the case do you want that personality in the clubhouse that by most accounts has few strong personalities to handle a potential trouble maker. If not and he comes here and performs to the expectations/abilities then.....

I am just not so sure about this trade....

@IH8Avatars Can I join your fan club? There hasn't been a more noble cause than yours to ever be posted here.

FYI, Verducci's all-star list just came out and includes Freddy at 2b, no Duke though: sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../index.html

I am in favor of this trade.  Milledge was once a top 10 MLB prospect and can be a 5 tool contributor.  Nyjer is a non-prospect, despite his relative success this year.  He is, by all accounts, a swell guy and may turn out to be an above average SB guy like Juan Pierre, but Milledge has a chance to be like Adam Jones of the Orioles.  That is much more helpful to this team given its lack of power.  Frankly, I'm surprised the Nats would do this trade...they must not like Milledge very much for some reason.  I guess it would be a red flag, if they weren't at least as inept as or more inept than the Pirates have been.

PghZombieKiller - Agreed, it's too early to label the guy a bust, but what has he shown to get excited about? Again, I know he's only 24, but he also has almost 900 major league at bats.

I've had to hear about this kid since he was in the Mets system. My Father-in-Law is a rabid NY fan. He thought he was overrated too.

What are you talking about?  It's not made up.  People would care about this because they are talking about the nutcases we have/had on the team.

Why can't we have that chat with Neil Huntington now so we all can weigh in before the deal is done?

                        Carry over from Hinske thread

"How anyone can color it as a "great move" is absolutely hilarious and speaks volumes as to the incredibly low expections of Pirate fans these days."

@ HOSTAGE

                       I completely agree with you this was not a great move, i believe Hinske's lack of production {HR} was more of an indictment of the Pirates not having enough around him to make him a valuable extra part.

Hinske certainly didnt STINK, he had some excellent at bats and had some quality starts. Great to have Jones up here but you now basically have 4 young every day players.  MOSS-YOUNG-JONES-PEARCE  who are not going to play every day, is that a great move?

                       What we got in return ????  who knows they might work out and this could be a great trade, but we wont know until 2011 probably but today June 30 2009 i look upon this as much as a lost opportunity as much as a POTENTIAL opportunity in the future.

Would not be upset if Nyjer is traded but not sure if Milledge alone is enough only because of what some here have said about him.  I am not informed enough on Milledge to make that trade or not.

Last thread

on Jun 30, 2009 12:07 PM

I liked the acquisition of Hinske, and I like this trade even more. He wasn’t performing anywhere near expectations, and we were able to do a lot better than just cut our losses.

JHadar wrote re: Pirates trade Hinske to Yankees

on Jun 30, 2009 12:57 PM

If they had released Hinske and brought Jones up, I don't think any of us would have minded And now we have another guy who can start if Moss starts hitting.  8^]

_________

Both good posts and I agree for what it's worth.

Bringing up Jones and having Pearce and Young as well  it leaves open the door for more trades as well. If Adam goes we have either Jones or Pearce if they show anything.  If Freddy is traded then hopefully the practice time with Young will work out.  

I would like to see us get a ss in some deal along the way.  Not to step in right now but in a year or two.

@indianafanatic

The check is in the mail

__

Thanks to those that responded to my rant this morning. Back out for a bit.

Can anyone tell me what sense it makes to get rid of Freddy or Jack??  We have no one behind them even close to their abilities and neither would fetch much of anything in a trade.  How would this help or improve the team in any way?

============================================

Dan1283,

You have no idea what Jack or Freddy can get us at the deadline.  Freddy is a .300 hitter and a very above average (if not really good) 2B.  Jack is a .260 hitter who is magic with the glove.  GMs get nuts at the deadline (trying to trade for the guy who will get them over the hump or a guy that can fill in for their playoff push).  I say Jack, Freddy, Adam, & The Grabow Train (John Grabow) should all be moved by July 31.  As I've said before, the current team will win NOTHING (as they have done).  Neal and Frank need to blow it up and start afresh.

Neal and Frank.  Doing what they do best.  DEMOLITION!!!!

I mentioned when news of this first broke a couple days ago that it's a gamble that's worth taking. I'd like to see the Pirates get another prospect though. There's no pressure financially on this deal and the Nationals seem like the one desperate to make the trade so the Pirates should hold out for as much as they can.

Morgan, as much as I like him, is probably having a career year this year. He isn't going to be as fast as he is now in a couple years. Also, for a speed guy, he gets caught stealing way too often.

Milledge brings the physical tools of Nyjer plus some promising power. Him and Cutch are friends too so there should be no emotional dropoff for Cutch from the trade. Maybe all that Milledge needs is a good friend and enviornment like the Pirates clubhouse to play in to bring out his potential.

Well, at least this time no one will accuse them of dumping salary.  First picking up part of Hinske's contract; now trading for a guy who will definitely cost them more.  I don't like the Milledge trade, because teams don't usually give up on guys with that kind of talent.  Of course, this is the Nats and the Mets we're talking about--the Nats have no real GM, and the Mets have a big wallet to build a system and lure FAs.  Hey, if it pans out, he's totally worth the risk of a mediocre, soon to be 30 years old OF with no power.

@bjohnson

"Why can't we have that chat with Neil Huntington now so we all can weigh in before the deal is done?"

Do you really want the FO basing their baseball decisions on what the fans want?

I think we are trying to evaluate something that has not happened, we should be pretty sure the Pirates are after someone else, otherwise they would have pulled the trigger a couple of days ago when the Nats made the offer.

So I believe we are getting a little ahead of ourselves.

IH8Avatars wrote re: Another trade expected soon

on Tue, Jun 30 2009 1:38 PM

I would like to welcome Lastings by having each and every last one of you remove your Avatar!!!

JAL,

Looks like you got some challenges on your hands! :)

This may be coming a little late, but I wanted to correct some misinformation I saw in the other thread.  Anybody who thinks this was a salary dump needs to work on their math skills.  The Pirates saved about $400K on Hinske, but they now also have to pay Garrett Jones the major league minimum salary, which for the rest of the year will be another $200K.  That's not much of a salary dump.

I can see trading Morgan - it was obvious from day one that while he was a better defender than Bay (as almost anyone is) he has no business playing LF for a MLB team (except, maybe, for the Nats). But even though he's five years younger, you have to worry about sending Snell to Purgatory only to invite his twin onto your roster. Still, the only thing that matters is if the guy translates into more wins, regardless of his record. If he looks like more wins now and in the future than Nyjer, then you make the trade. That's the only baseball justification.

Like swapping McLouth for McCutch plus Morton plus two more prospects, you do it to get more wins. And since the team didn't implode upon the trade, at worst you've broken even for now, and are likely to get more wins in the future because you've improved your depth a lot. Same with the Hinske trade, swapping Hinske for Jones and improving your future odds at the same time.

Pearce and Snell are next. There are going to be some people who are never going to produce for you, regardless if they go somewhere else and immediately turn into Cy Young and Babe Ruth. Sometimes you just gotta cut bait.

Interesting FC and NH kinda saying they'll not strip the team if it stays in shouting distance of improvement (not of .500 or any specific "contention", but improvement from years of 90-100 loss seasons). The deals they've made so far this year seem to be bearing that out; the players that are gone are being replaced by upgrades (when your team has no swat and frequently no offense, you need to upgrade Now) and the bonus is improving the system depth. All in all looks like a decent attempt at making that silk purse out of a definite sow's ear.

emoney

Not really, most of the gray men come in on trade stories for a bit then disappear--rarely engage in discussion.

Contrary to all you negative nellies, I like this deal and support Huntington in this endeavor.

Selling Morgan high, and buying a 5 category guy like Milledge low is an excellent proposition.

Now this would be a great trade.

         As it relates to Milledge, i understand from a baseball standpoint that this deal could make a lot of sense. Milledge is a legit 5 tool guy but he hasnt demonstrated it consistently. And i hope NH has done his homework on the character issues because once the trade is made you know we will be losing a great character guy, what will we get in return?????

Hi Macs,

Good to know we can see eye to eye on some things.

;-)

Regarding the Hinske deal:

The best thing I like about that deal is it brings up Garrett Jones. I've liked him since Spring Training and think he has a much better chance than Steve Pearce of succeeding.

Nothing special about the prospects but you never know.

posted on last thread just before the march so see if anyone wants to try it here--if you heard it this morning just others try.

Jason Stark's trivia quiz

Marino Rivera saved his 500 the game for the Yankees last night. Only three currently active pitchers (that means Billy Wagner does not count) have 100 or more saves for their current team--who are they?

don't hate the messanger, but i've heard (from inside sources) morgan and burnett for milledge and rhp closer joel hanrahan. coming later

I hope everyone recalls that the first time Milledge got ragged for being immature and "disrespecting the game" was when he hit a crucial homer for the Mets late in a game, and I believe it was his first career homerun, and he ran out to the OF and was high-fiving fans on his way out along the railing.  

Excited about a big hit and interacting with the fans...and of course, that got a big ol' wag of the finger from the establishment.  I'm not saying that I want guys doing this all of the time, but if I were a 21 year old kid who pounded my first homer for the New York Mets, I'd be pretty excited too.

@JAL

How about Nathan, Papelbon, Soria?

@Roberto--

Why would Jack Wilson bring anything now when we've been trying to trade him for years at the deadline and never get offered enough to actually pull the trigger?  He's older now but it would really take a desperate contender to give up anything worth good value for Jack.  Take a look at the contenders around baseball--not too many have shortstop problems that will legitimately have a shot come July 31.

Freddy could probably bring something but he has not proven very durable and brings little more than a high average and a steady glove. There's guys like him all over baseball, most just have slightly lower averages, so I don't see any GM giving up anything that would make for a sensible return for the Bucs.  

You're right I don't know what a GM would offer, but the idea of making a trade is to improve your club, so unless we got a young 2B that is a better prospect than Sanchez was, I don't see how we improve.  It would leave a HUGE hole at 2B and in the lineup.

yeah baby.  then send Romano to the Skipjacks.  whatever it takes ... WHATEVER IT TAKES :

http://bit.ly/S5u57

JAL

Papelbon has to be one.

Joe Nathan and Bobby Jenks are the others.

All are guesses, but I'm pretty comfortable with them.

Would Hostage consider this a GREAT trade? I think even if somehow the Pirates traded Morgan for Pujols Nutting Hostage would find fault. He complains about the front office like they are his three ex-wives collecting monthly checks off him that cut into his scratch off tickets and coors light money.

Would it pay to wait for a couple weeks to see if any better offers are on the table? by the time this is posted the deal might be done. Oh well

Jtads,

I'd be OK with that too.

Including Burnett and Hanrahan.

jtads

No thanks on that. Joel Hanrahan = Craig Hansen.

If the Pirates hire 25 boy scouts that intend to go to Seminary upon retiring from baseball, thus assembling a team of the highest possible character, I would not care if they could not win.  On the flipside, if they hired a team of Pacman Jones, Chad Ochocinco, Milton Bradley, et al, I would care even if they did win.

I don't think Milledge is either a boy scout headed for priesthood or a scoundrel of the Pacman Jones ilk.  He is a talented young man with a lot more attitude than is comfortable to veterans in baseball.  They need to get over it.

I will also point out the amount of patience that most in this asylum have in developing our young players internally and that the exact opposite opinion is consistently given of other teams' young players.  You can poke holes in every player in the league short of Albert Pujols.  The Pirates need talent and they should do this trade because it increases their talent level.

Nathan, Jenks and Chad Cordero.... And yes I'lll get an avatar soon.

One thing to keep in mind about Milledge--there's nothing you can say about him that wasn't said about guys like Brandon Phillips, Carlos Pena and Jose Guillen when they were struggling, seemingly failed prospects being bounced from team to team.  And Josh Hamilton was a drug addict, for Pete's sake.  This is all about the possibility that Milledge could turn into an above-average player.  You're not going to get a sure-fire future star unless you're giving up a heck of a lot more than Nyjer Morgan.  If this deal happens, Huntington will have acquired several young outfielders (Tabata and Gorkys being others) who have a lot of upside but also have some warts.  They won't all work out, but if one or two do, the Pirates will be in much better shape.  This is all about increasing the odds of finding very good players, not about sure things.

And let's please be realistic about Morgan.  He's playing a power position and has the OPS+ (93) of a shortstop.  He's 28, so he's probably as good as he's going to get.  And he just doesn't have the baseball instincts to use his speed to best advantage.  I saw him get picked off twice on Saturday and Greinke had him dead on Sunday but threw the ball away.  Morgan's in his seventh year of pro ball and he just has his limits.

Ben

Soria is still 31 saves away from 100.

I just checked...my three are correct.

Papelbon, Nathan and Rivera?  Unless you mean three others, in which case I'd guess and replace Rivera with ... Isringhausen?

As for the deal, there is no question now ... NuHo has approved!  Gotta do a deal like this if you have NuHo's sign off.  Somebody call the FO!

Hmm..did this work?

Nathan, Jenks, and Chad Cordero.

And yest I'll get an avatar soon.

Does Andy Van Slice know how to read? I think even if I endorsed this deal in a post on this thread he would question my thoughts on this potential trade.

Oh wait, that's exactly what happened.

LOL!

Funny how Milledge is being criticized for high-fiving fans, while the more popular Morgan engages them in conversation...

Anyway, when this initially broke I said I liked the trade and still do. Morgan is having as good of a year as he ever will. Milledge lead a crappy team in HRs and RBIs last season. At worst the PBC breaks even (no matter who else is included) and potentially we get a decent corner OF who can actually hit the ball over the fence.

No reason to plan a World Series parade here but Morgan is WAY over-valued in the minds of many, to my way of thinking and we stand to pick up a player who is an improvement at the position. Maybe he can even slide into second properly...

Jose

"The best thing I like about that deal is it brings up Garrett Jones."

I actually think that was the whole point of the deal.

BAB

You got it--good job

Hi Macs,

Good to know we can see eye to eye on some things."

;-)"

Hostage,  Agreed actually there is a lot i agree with you on.

Those things we dont agree on I.E  Snell i will try to not get as

bent out of shape in the future.

And       "BABA BOOEY"  to you!  :)

ndbrian

Yes, your post worked but BAB got the 3--Nathan, Jenks, and Papelbon

I can't wait for when we will be talking about who the Bucs are trading for to help with stretch run (instead of who's leaving).

(sigh).

Isringhausen is on the Rays...nowhere near 100 saves with them.

Cordero has no saves with the Mariners, for whom he now plays.

Hostage

Andy Van Slice was the first poster eliminated from season record contest

Wow.  I say go for the talent and take the risk.  Milledge is still very young (24), and the minor league stats (and scouts opinions) are good.  Obviously some concerns given that the Bucs would be his 3rd organization in 3 years, but worth a try.  Morgan seems like a great guy and can do some things, but he turns 29 in 2 days and has virtually no power.  

If Hanrahan and Burnett are in it, I don't like the trade.  Hanrahan wishes he was Craig Hansen.  The bullpen is better now because they have fewer of these scatter-armed, mechanically challenged relievers and Burnett is a big part of that.  Plus, Grabow is going to be gone after this year and Burnett is a very good candidate to be the top LH reliever.  In fact, he's having a better year than Grabow now.  Ugh.  Go back to the two outfielders straight up.

Why would Jack Wilson bring anything now when we've been trying to trade him for years at the deadline and never get offered enough to actually pull the trigger?

===================================

Dan1283,

I disagree.  The Red Sox inquired about J-Dubya earlier this season.  If things don't go as planned with Lowrie, they mayyyyyyy come back.

Sorry BayArea, that wasn't what soured people on Milledge. It was his sense of entitlement. He claimed that an athlete of his caliber only needed 30 - 45 mins to warmup before a game. But his shortcomings in the outfield (where he was supposed to shine) is what really did him in with the Mets. That and the now infamous "know your role rook" sign that was taped to his locker.

www.bucsdugout.com/.../we-dont-need-lastings-milledge

I'm not excited about the potential return for this trade, but I am at least happy that Huntington is the polar opposite of Littlefield and Bonifay, in that he is tradeing player close to their peak value, whatever the return.

<< He complains about the front office like they are his three ex-wives collecting monthly checks off him that cut into his scratch off tickets and coors light money.

>>

THAT WAS HILARIOUS! (The analogy. I totally do not condone dissing the NuHo... wait, no I do. nevermind... srsly)

As Much as I love to watch Njer play, everyoone had to know that he wasnt in our future plans.......but how long do we keep Milledge? I don't see him in our plans for the future either if Tabata and Hernandez keep making strides.....i just wish we could get more players like Nyjer. He was a fun player to watch and played the game like it was his last every night.  Here's hoping Milledge is everything they say he is.

yea--lets get another cancer clubhouse guy --maybe his wife can steal twins or something

what a joke--the more i read this blog the more i have come to realize that most people that follow the pirates have some preconceived notion that we need 9 stars to win games....

2 things: one ..that never happens (players who have all the talent in the world are never a lock to be winners)....tow--character counts--this milledge guy is a turd --quit on his teammates...hurt.. a whiner... why in the hell would the pirates take this type of guy in exchange for a guy who busts his butt allthe time and works hard every day..and is playing...not hurt?

nice pass everyone is giving to pbc on hinske-- the signed that guy for 1.5 mill and have to pay for him to go away..could have kept doug m for 750 k--and he was way more better ....even had more power than mr 1 hr guy....

leads me to believe to bringout the old mantra

STOP THE CIRCUS...SELL THE TEAM

get ready to cheer the reincarnation of goege hendrick bozos

@bjm...Have you considered that Milledge really is an upgrade from Morgan and that it will help for this imaginary pennant chase?  Also that Hinske was not working out and that Jones will be no worse and possibly better, so why not trade to save a few $ and get a couple A ball guys in the process?

I am NOT saying we are making a run, but I really think this is an opportunistic trade that will make our team immediately better, though still not a contender by any stretch.

NOT BURNETT!

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Capn might not like this....

forgot all about this one

Lastings Milledge's rap has gone from bad to worse.

Milledge, who ticked off Met teammates last season with his on and off-the-field antics, has taken poor judgment to a new level, performing on a rap song that would make Don Imus blush.The rappin' right fielder uses the N-word and *** and also says "ho" in a song featured on his new record label's Web site

www.nydailynews.com/.../2007-05-16_lastings_latest_bad_rap-2.html

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

the boys at pbc--right on top of it again.....a fan favorite ..can't wait

@Matt the Rat "Do you really want the FO basing their baseball decisions on what the fans want?"

But we're not the regular old fans who don't understand trading Bay and Nady..... we're smart fans.

Well, half of us are smart fans.

Well, you and I are smart fans.

I'm not so sure about you....

jtads--that's a pretty good source you got. You even scooped DK!

that would be a terrible trade

For what it's worth, I am not high on Hanrahan.  He has poor control and his Minor League stats are not that impressive.  He was a top 10 prospect of the Dodgers for a few years, but they eventually granted him free agency.  That he was supposed to close for the Nats does not really give me any confidence.

That said, Milledge has high enough upside that I can see this trade as basically even, if not still in favor of the Pirates.

Darn.  Forgot that Cordero wasn't active anymore.  

I think Donnie Veal has to be back on the 25-man roster in Pittsburgh tomorrow, or else he will be on the plane ride back with the Cubs.

If Nyjer is dealt, Veal could take his 25-man spot, we'd have an extra pitcher unless perhaps Jeff Karstens is sent down to get him back to starting.

One thing I do know for sure though is this: when Ian Snell is called back to Pittsburgh, Eric Kratz will be coming with him.

Why not forget Milledge and jusk ask for Stammen?  Because, dummy, the Nationals wanna unload the Lastings impression on the Buccos and insist he be included or no deal!  Why didn't we make them take Hinske, then?  Beggars can't be choosers and, besides, he's now wearing  pinstripes.  Ya mean like Bernie Madoff?  Yeah, he's over there in the Bronx with all those other white-collar ripoff artists.  Well, then, good riddance and let's play Young ball and hope the rolling stone gathers no Moss.  

Does this trade also mean the FO honestly sees Delwyn Young in the OF on a regular basis this summer?  That part scares me.

patton

That was his first transgression. I never said it was his only one.

rond

No one gave the FO a pass. Many of us never liked the Hinske signing. (Though he definitely has a lot more power than Dougie. Doug has 0 HR this year, and 66 in 3299 career at bats. His career high is 15.  Hinske has 1 this year, 106 in 3012 at bats, a career high of 24, and he hit 20 last year.)  We're happy to have gotten SOMETHING for Hinske.

Milledge is far from a clubhouse cancer.  Immature, sure.  Cancer? Come on.

Ants Marching ============================

@PiratefanOhio

I too would be interested to see what direction they plan on going with Milledge.  I think they basically see how he measures up against Tabata, McCutchen, and Moss and go from there as far as maybe unloading one of them later.  I think also the message is being sent to Moss that he needs to pick up his power numbers-i don't wanna hear arguments about his playing time, 1 HR all season doesn't show any potential that he could have enough power (let alone a good enough average or plate discipline) to be a regular corner outfielder.

I think there is no question that the Pirates are positioning themselves very well for the future.  They are going to let talent dictate who starts by giving themselves options, not just forcing the only prospect they have into the starting role and hoping for the best.  Think of it this way--previous management would have Neil Walker at 3B in the majors right now, whereas Huntington saw the danger in that and traded for Andy LaRoche.  They are going about it the right way.

@ ron d,

No the Bucs don't need 9 stars to win games, BUT THEY NEED MORE THAN 0 IF THEY EXPECT TO WIN A WORLD SERIES.  

And character really doesn't count.  Manny, Randy Johnson, Clemens, Schilling, Bonds, etc. etc. all have won a lot of ball games being ishy teammates.  Please direct yourself to Bob Smizik's blog post from today.  THE PBC needs talent b/c right now the talent we have IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO WIN ANYTHING!

Neil and Frank.  Continue to tear it down.  Build it up even stronger.

It sounds like we are giving up a lot in this deal and not getting much back. To give up two guys (NjMo and Burnett) that have done well this year in he majors and get two guys back (Milledge and Hanrahan) who, one being a head case, hasn't done particulary well in the majors......seems like we'd get more in this deal......

OK, so we're trading a lefty for a righty in the pen...that leaves us with Grabow as a lefty in the pen, and he's gone no later than the end of the year.

Methinks we need some left-handed help.

ron D

You may read the blog, but not closely--I dio not see anyone who thinks a team needs 9 stars.  This is intelligent group who understand the Pirates need power but no one is looking for 9 All stars.  No idea where you got that idea.

piratefanOhio

Milledge's "not that good" in the majors is way better than Nyjer's "fairly well" for us this year.  Milledge has hit for the same average, with a TON more power. And he's 5 years younger.  Not like giving up Morgan is "a lot" by any stretch.

Count me as one who isn't pleased with the Hanrahan/Burnett swap. In fact, I don't see the appeal in Hanrahan at all.

maybe milledge can become the next aramis ramirez.. we can work out all his kinks, and then trade him for bobby hill

Again, the Ants Marched ================================

Doc

Hanrahan has a power arm, and had a great year last year.  For what that's worth.

Its safe to say the HINSKE signing was a failure, I am not upset or sad at all, The more I think about this Morgan trade , the more it sounds good, LM has alot of RICKEY HENDERSON in him without the achivements, hopefully the culture can bring him back down to earth and have him reach his potential...He can steal bases better than Nyjer, That I do know..

CURRENT PIRATE STANDINGS AS OF 11.56 PST

6.0 GB OF THE BREWERS FOR NL CENTRAL

6.5 GB OF THE SF GIANTS FOR NL WILDCARD

I am so sick of the CUBS

@BAB

Talent wise would be an upgrade...but reading an article about him shows that this kid doesn't care about anyone but himself (high fiving people down the line after a home run? c'mon) I'm all for getting more power but to get a character issue guy while doing it? That's what I'm saying.  

Nyjer has shown power recently right? haha...he does lead our outfield in HOMERS....haha

In a couple of years, Milledge will have either established himself as a solid regular or be gone altogether.  Morgan will probably be a bench player somewhere or at AAA.  It's a low risk move that could pay off big . . . or not.  There's not much in between.  But, we're not giving up much (no, we're not).  I don't think Morgan could much more than a struggling middle reliever or low-level semi-prospect in return.

This isn't a nice guy contest.  I understand that when the team is bad, it's nice to at least have people you like to root for.  But, the goal is to turn the team into a winner, like the Pirates of the early 90's.  

The Pirates won three division titles with Barry Bonds as the best player.  I'm sure glad the Pirates didn't trade him to LA for Jeff Hamilton in 1989 (as almost happened).  I remember hearing about how that since we had just acquired Billy Hatcher, that it was OK to deal Bonds since he was a problem child anyway.  The Pirates would have had 3 less division titles if they did that.  While Billy Hatcher almost certainly could have made a better throw to get Sid Bream out at the plate, they wouldn't have been in the NLCS to begin with.  

I'm not saying Milledge will be the next Bonds.  I'm saying that what matters is how well you play baseball and not how good of a guy you are or you are perceived to be.  

The Pirates need to take chances, as long as they're low-cost chances and get some guys with high upside.  If Milledge didn't have issues, then they would ask for far more in a deal.  We got Andy LaRoche and Jose Tabata in part because of injury issues that lowered their value.  If they didn't have those issues, then they would have offered someone else.  Neal Huntington went for the players with higher upside even though they had injury issues.  

There aren't many teams that would want Morgan as a starter.  Washington has a bunch of corner outfielders, but no true CF that has the range to cover center field.  They tried Milledge and Dukes, but they don't have the range.  Washington is one of only a few teams that would start Morgan and give up anything significant for him.  

Actually, most teams already have pretty good corner outfielders and don't need Milledge either.  He has speed/power potential, but not quite enough of either to get most teams interested.  If he was a better defensive CF, then it might be different.

It would be two teams making their weaknesses less weak.

PiratesfanOhio

The high fiving was really something that bothered you? After a 21 year old kid hits a huge late inning homer?  I had no problem with that.

I think his "character issues" have been grossly overstated.

@BAB

Well I guess we will see!!!!!!! Every team he went to, his teammates had issues with him, what makes you think he won't make issues with the player's here? As long as the guy performs on the field for about 2 or 3 years (then we get rid of him) that's all that matters I guess.

Milledge has started his rehab with the Gulf Coast League Nationals