Another trade, another Pirates win

Excellent outing by Ohlie and a good win

Raise the Jolly Roger!

So what's the moniker going to be?  I'm torn between RohlieD and RoDorf

It's guy's like Ohlie that give me faith in the new FO.  They recognize talent.  

Very impressed with Ohlie.

Looking at all the trades we made in the last 2 years, is Ohllie the best thing we got ( so far)?

Ts

It's guy's like Ohlie that give me faith in the new FO.  They recognize talent.  

________________________________

They certainly do.

Hopefully Ohlendorf can keep progressing into a big-time major league starter.  He needs to be at the top of his game when they are ready to contend in a few years.  

We'll know either way at the deadline whether or not Wilson could start for another team. If he's not traded, that means there was no interest in him.  My guess is that teams view him as a defensive replacement and won't give NH much.  

I say try and trade Capps and another player to TB for Zobrist.

Posted after the ants marched,

sheesh, talk about crybabies, the Cub announcers are boo-hooing all over the place about how poorly the Cubs played, downplaying Ross's great game. Sheesh!

Just a quick observation would you rather have Freddy or Morgan batting Second. Both hardly ever walk but Freddy obvoisly has a better average and hits more doubles (score McCutchean from first) plus why do you need to bunt a guy to second when the guy on first has speed to steal second.

Second of all would you rather have Freddy batting third or Milledge batting third. Milledge is going to hit for more power then Freddy and his only full year in the majors provided very good numbers for a 23 year old. You are not going to win with a line up that has the first 3 batters combining for 15-20 home runs in a year.

This is a good trade IMO.

Doc-Jaramillo was a good trade because we got rid of a cancer.

Does anyone else find it amusing that FSN can find so many good highlights of Milledge against the Pirates?

Milledge, McCutchen, Tabata.  Hopeful outfield of the future for the Pirates.  Potential is scary.  NH needs to now work on the middle infield (Zobrist) and more pitching.

Doc, I think you have to include Andy in there too, and there are still possibilities a year or so away. IMHO Moss will be a good player somewhere, and I hope it's here.

I posted this in an earlier thread, but I posted it late so I thought I would add my perspective on what Jack said:

" I am sorry, what did Jack say wrong? Which of these trades HAS paid off for the major league club yet???? Maybe the Nady trade.  If you are looking at major league talent ( which is basically what JW is looking at) Only The Nady trade has brought more back than the MLB team lost.

Additionally,  I work at a hospital that recently had significant layoffs of some of the best people we had. It was necessary to keep the place going, but difficult for me because :

there are less nurses and newer cheaper nurses.IMHO, the new cheaper nurses don't do as good a job taking care of my patients ( although they are learning and may eventually be better.)

I lost a lot of good friends whom I enjoyed working with.

Now as I step back I realize it was best for the organization, but from my point of view right now, it isn't. So I am going to cut Jack some slack. All of you recommending the Pirates dump Jack, please tell me who you want to place SS? Bixler?

He'll get over it, or he will be gone, but a guy who is upset his friends are gone and who sees the moves today leading to more losses, and who hates to lose. I have no problem with that

Doc

Kartens has done some good work but Ohlie  is the best so far.  Tabata at least another year away unless he breaks out big this season in the minors.

Great win tonight! Great job by Grabow in the 8th, and the best outing of Ohlie's carreer, and save #19 for Matt. Also good to see Freddy rebound from 0-4, with a 3-3 night, and good to see Moss get two more hits so he'll probably be benched until at least Sunday.

I think we are all going to be surprised by Hanrahan.Last year his ERA was 3.95 and they were lousy on defense ...even last year.93 Ks in 84 IP and 9 saves.Let him work with Kerrigan.

FINALLY!! Ohlendorf realized he was a strikeout pitcher again! Anybody know how high his velocity got tonight?

Doc

Looking at all the trades we made in the last 2 years, is Ohllie the best thing we got ( so far)?

______________________________

That is a tough question. Usually the most coveted players you can get in a trade are starting pitchers that prove to be quality.

For a starting pitcher, at this time he is doing the best, but we have others that have as much upside. Morton, Morris have pretty good upside.

For relief pitching, Karstens has bloomed quite well, he looks like a keeper in the bullpen

Andy LaRoach is now a solid 3rd basemen

Moss could be a very good outfielder if they would let him play

Meek was a very good deal from the Rays

Chavez has been a good trade

Jackson looks like he might be a pretty good relief pitcher to get you out of jams with that sinkerball.

Diaz and Jarimillo were very good trades

Oh I forgot the best trade Neal made to date was the Milledge trade, what a dummy I am.

If you are trying to build for the future with young players, why trade a good role model and leader in Hinske and bring in a piece of garbage like Milledge?

June 30

2008 38-44

2009 36-41

  Any comments?I hear SOME people saying we are getting WORSE this year!

Oh Ted, I agree that evaluating the trades CAN"T be done until 5-10 years from now.  And I think Moss may be OK, as will Andy. I am less sure about the prospects, but am hopeful of Morton, and Karstens should ne a serviceable 5th starter.

pfin-Eric hit 20 HRs last year.He hit 1 hr this year.

Maz, the BA against him is pretty high in both years. I hope you are right, but just beacuse a guy throws hard, doesn't mean he can pitch. He does make a Capps trade very, very likely

Also forgot to mention good to see Pearce get his first knock since his recall. Even though I would've liked to see Jones get the ab there, I'm very intrigued to see what he can do.

Because no one ever said Milledge was a piece of garbage.  He reminds me more of an excitable player, like Morgan.  Just because he celebrates and high fives people doesn't make him a bad person.  In the end, he probably has good reason to be celebrating.  I think people are getting Milledge mixed up with another player on the Nats named Dukes.  He actually is known as a bad teammate and a headcase, which was the reason Tampa traded him, even though he is supremely talented.  They wanted him out of their clubhouse and it looks like it worked on their part.

Milledge, McCutchen, Tabata 2011!

i know at the beginning of the year, we were hoping Nyher wasn't just a flash in the pan and could hit even a little bit to hold a place until Cutch was ready.  and people considered Hanrahan and Milledge as two of the best players on Nats.  

i think both this trade and the McLouth trade made the Pirates better this season.  the Hinske trade doesn't hurt them, but I do wonder this.  Who plays 3rd if Andy gets hurt?

Last year on this date...11.5 games behind.Also ...-53Run differential in 2008....+7 run differential in 2009.We are IN most games.We have won 5 of 7.

It's not that they shouldn't have traded Hinske (although I think character is more important than HRs), it's about getting players who are bad people (and not that talented).  I watched Milledge come up with Mets with all the hype - there is nothing to it.

Even if the MIlledge trade turns out bad I don't have a problem with it. Tabata and Gorky are on their way next year or the year after and there just wasn't room for a player of Morgan ability to stick around. He was just a placeholder who really wasn't ever going to have more trade value then he did right now. Worst case is Milledge burn's out and we have the same future outfield we had this morning. Best case is he fulfills his promise and we have the horrible problem of to many outfielders and we trade on for some young pitching prospects.

All I know is we currently have 6-7 options for our 4 and 5 pitchers in the rotation with some of those guys having higher ceilings and last year we had no options except Dumetrait.

maz

Anyone who says were not getting better is just not very smart, anyone who watched this team last year and this year can tell you were getting better. Were much more competitive, were stock piling young talent, alot of that young talent is already contributing, An. LaRoche, Ohlendorf, Moss, this team is getting better and will continue to improve. For first time in my life I have faith in Pirates GM. And I used to mention the fact Hinske had 20 HRs last year everytime he would bat this year!

Nice win for the Buccos tonight.  Not only was Ohlendorf impressive, but I thought Grabow did a great job shutting down the Cubs in the 8th.   With the amount of trade activity today, I think their heads were spinning - I was wondering if they'd be focused on the game.

(I almost expected to see someone's wife get pulled away from the phone bank during the Pirates' Charities Auction.)

That being said, let's hope Lastings Milledge benefits from a change of scenery - and not Ian Snell's philosophical soul mate.  I like Nyjer Morgan, but I understand the chance Neil Huntington took.  The part I don't understand is Sean Burnett.  

Someone explain that part of the trade to me. Please.  

We lost nothing in Hinske, and got just a little bit more than we did for Craig Monroe. Neither will start or possibly play in the major leagues

Vasquez will play 3rd

Boru

Who plays 3rd if Andy gets hurt?

__________________________________

Vasquez

Who knows they keep trying to find a place Young can play and don't seem to care if he can play defense, maby him.

@PfaninNY: The Pirates need talented starting players regardless of their demeanor, not rah-rah bench players who are nice guys, but don't perform when called upon. AND how can you judge Milledge by what you hear through the media? Give the young guy a chance to prove himself. Some people mature at a later age.....

Marty-I  used to wonder about you.You used to be all over Moss.He is getting his hits and soon will start stroking for power.With Brandon I think it's a confidence thing.Nice to see you using the "force" and good to see you didn't go to the "dark side".  ;-)

yeah, Vasquez is what I figured...  We are loaded young outfield talent, but we have nothing at 2nd, 3rd, and SS.  at least we could put DY at 2b and hope his defense improved to not awful.  Vasquez would be a huge dropoff defensively at 3rd or SS.

Trite- Hanrahan = men on first and third and one out in the 7th or 8th and coming in and getting a strike out. I'm not saying I agree with that but that is what I beleive NH is thinking. I believe our pitchers are last in strike outs in the league, and easy outs late in games are huge. I loved Burnett and his story of what he overcame but we do need more power arms they just need to start throwing strikes. Veal, Meek Yates, Hanrahan throw them all at the wall and maybe one or two will gain a little control and stick.

if Andy LaRoche and Brandon Moss can start hitting with even a little power, we have a real chance at playoffs.

triteTW

Not sure but FC and Nh seem to love live arms and Hanrahan throws hard while Burnett does not.  They seem to think that if they get enough pitchers who in the mid to upper 90s at least one will develop into a light's out reliever or starter.

Just a thought on Moss.  If you look at his cumulative career numbers at the major league level they equate to one full season.  His line is as follows:

157 GP  455 AB  116 H  32 2B  6 3B   9 HR  55 RBI  .255 avg.

This is at age 25.  He's played a pretty good RF and had some pretty good numbers in the minors where he started at age 18.  I wouldn't give up on him yet.  

It's just like Bob Smizik says, "What would you rather have, a team of talented players or a team of nice guys?"  I'll take talent over leadership and clubhouse presence every day!

@FLIPBC, nhurley, piratefaninny

Sorry if I mistyped the names, can't read my own writing

You can do this if you like, if not, ok

In the aslum, and welcome if you haven't been already, we have this thing, we like avatars and not grey men to talk to.

So please pick a picture to represent yourself here, if you don't know how, click on JAL's avatar and you will find instructions

@Leadoff, re - who plays 3rd

Hey, a few teams looking for 3bman, Andy isn't proven, cheap, but I think NH would trade anyone, maybe not McCutch, but pretty much everyone else.  He needs to hold his ground though and be keen on what he's looking for.

IMO if Littlefield had the knowledge NH had, we would not be rueing ARamirez trade

But thats the past, and IMO, I want to see what this mgmt team does with Sano and draft picks, then I might believe, but not before.  Milledge has been passed through what 3 teams?? So was JBay but he wasn't a head caes, per Ian, we ain't good at dealing with those sort of folks

Night all, don't forget Bucco Nation, please I know you are out there, like mosquitos to one of those lights, we can't stay away

And what a picture of the wall with Maz, I wish Yogi was there...

Just got back from the game, here's a weird thing I noticed.  In the bottom of the seventh, Wilson flied out to Lee, who had to go out to right after the ball, he flipped it to Hoffpauir, who flipped it to Fontenot, who threw it to Theriot, who threw it to Fox, who threw it back to Lilly. Without changing the ball, Pearce hit it to Soriano for a single. The same ball got touched by everyone on the field at the time except for Fukudome.  I don't know how I noticed this, but I did. Strange.

boru

if Andy LaRoche and Brandon Moss can start hitting with even a little power, we have a real chance at playoffs.

____________________________________

Neal said the club's definition of power is not necessarily hitting the ball over the fence, power to them also is defined by line drive gap hitting, which Moss and Andy LaRoach.

Also, Vasquez is not a drop off defensively at 3rd base, he is a drop off at short only because he doesn't have as much range as Jack.

Milledge can not come fast enough to get someone in the outfield to compliment McCutch and provide some power.  I'd like to see Jones get in there the same way Young has been getting his at-bats in.  Why does NH say Milledge has to prove himself to play, yet the less talented Moss gets a free pass to play often?  Let's all hope, for the sake of the PBC, Milledge and Jones find their groove and make this outfield newsworthy.

36 down.  45 to go.

I think the team was focused today.

Starchild Says:

#1 Star:  Ohlie was Jolly.  7 innings, 4 hits, 8 k's  His location was sharp.

#2 Star: Freddy was Ready.  3 for 3 with a walk, a run and 2 rib.  Socred from second on a strike-out wild pitch.  Nice.  Stole a base too.

#3 Star: Jack was Back.  Only 1 for 3 with a run scored, but I loved the bunt single, the sac bunt by Ohlie and then scoring on Freddy's single.  That was good baseball folks.  Looks like the middle infielders were hustling today.  Loved it.

I think I like the trades too.

The tide is turning.  Let's take a series from the stinking Cubs and proceed to beat the teams ahead of us in the division.  Maybe we can do more than just hang in there before Doumit returns.

When Doumit does return, then maybe there'll be just enough punch to go on a real tear.

"Leopold!"

Wabbit

Hey ,Rudy Owens is doing it again. 6 IP 7 H- 0 R - 0 BB-3 Ks.Still pitching for West Virginia and heading to the top of 7. ERA 1.90. The score is 1-0 if he wins he'll be 9-1 and ready for promotion.Oops they just took him out.Not bad for 21.

There is still time to get your partial season ticket packages for the Indy Pirates.

Come see the exciting duo of Jones, Salazar.

This is the most pathetic excuse for an ownership group,  not only in sports, but anywhere.

They treat there customers like Adelphia Cable use to.

Any other corporation that showed such disdain for ther patrons would be BK'd long ago.

Their plan is to keep the line moving and never have to pay the piper.

This has now become so obvious that it is flaunted in front of their fan base with impunity.

"Let them have fireworks or off with their bobbleheads."

socaldonn,

Is 9 home runs what you really want from a corner outfielder?  Especially since we have 2 other outfielders (Mill, McCutch) who aren't necessarily power guys yet?  Yes, I'm expecting a healthy Milledge to get his 25-30 hrs, but McCutch might not find power until he is much older and filled out.  We need someone in RF who is capable of hitting 20+ hrs and capable of driving in runs.  

These trades are not baseball trades, they are business trades and are being triggered by Bob Nutting (jR).  Who has a horrible track record for the way he has run businesses his father has built from the ground up.  Take a quick look at his labor relations and lost net worth in his newspapers, and more recently Seven Springs.  He has made a living on cheap labor, and the Pirates are no different.  Thanks Bob for ruining two of the things I love about Western Pa...  Thank god for the Rooneys, and please Cuban come home and take these things away from him!

HINSKE was a product of RAYS lineup, he got management go give him money , and he proceeded to show us that he cant do anything unless he is surrounded by hitters, doesnt make him a bad person but he is not as good as we all thought..

When Ross is ON , He is filthy , Come on STL,

Hey.  The Pirates are 2-0 after soul crushing trades.  If they space it out right, we could see the Pirates in the playoffs this year and get a whole new team to boot!

This is the second worst trade of the Opie era.  

Just a couple thoughts...

I like Jack Wilson, and he's earned the benefit of several doubts at least from me.  But I can't say I'd appreciate his comments if I was one of his teammates.  I don't want my veteran leadership chanting doom and gloom and badmouthing the front office every time a trade is made.  He said some things when McClouth went that I thought pushed the envelope.  Now his current remarks cross a line, at least for me.  Bottom line:  I thought he was a little more professional and had a better attitude than what he's showed.  Of course, it's probably not fair for me to judge the guy until I walk a mile in his shoes; plus, I gotta admit, he shows veteran leadership on the field pretty much every single game.  I dunno what to think now.

As to Morgan going:  I'll miss the guy.  He was fun to watch, could perform brilliantly in brief stretches, was a great athlete, and had a great attitude.  But I say all that as a fan; if I were a GM, I shudder to think about the team of "great guys" I'd assemble.  Someone (I think NuHo) said yesterday that he'd take players like Milledge any day.  Not me.  I ain't the type of fan who wants the team to win and be a bunch of talented jerks, head cases, cheaters, etc.  I dunno...  I hope we can follow the Herb Brooks strategy:  "I'm not looking for the best players, I'm looking for the right players."  That's the team I wanna root, root, root for.  But let's see how this all pans out, I guess.

Just had to get that off my chest.  Now I can go to bed.  Great win, by the way.

@Maz.  Love the new avatar.  Brings back memories.  Also, I really like your very simple observation that the Pirates are (cumulatively) +60 runs from last year at this time (+7 this year and -53 last year).

This is ALL about pitching and defense.  We get just enough pop out of B.Moss, AnLa, or Milledge, or Doumit when he returns, this gum ball is gonna start rolling and wins are gonna stick to us like used chewing gum on a leather sole shoe.

Need to beat the Brew Crew.  Team chest bumps versus shirt tales wagging in the breeze.

"I'll do it.  But I'll hate myself in the morning."

Wabbit

Brandon

Mark Cuban and Lastings Milledge are the perfect match.

A Bomb, exactly how is a trade that saves no money and alianates fans that don't look closer at the trade or know what it takes to sustain a winning team a bussiness trade. Aramis Ramirez was a bussiness trade, not drafting Weiters was a bussiness decision. These things had nothing to do with current decision makers Bob Nutting included. Bob is the one that gave the OK on the Morris trade two years ago possible the worse bussiness trade ever!!!!

Brandon-The other owners would NEVER  let Cuban buy a team.Also he is under indictment(since last Nov) for insider trading.If he's indicted he'll not pass muster through the commish's office either.He may end up in jail.

Wow.... people would think we gave up Jason Bay again. Nyjer Morgan is a 5th outfielder. We have another singles hitting outfielder who is fast in Gorkys. These fifth outfeilder types, good defense, no power are a dime a dozen.

Now if you want to argue why we traded McLouth for Gorkys... OK.

To the bloggers who say you can't win without power...keep an eye on Frisco.

How can this be a bad trade? Milledge > Morgan, Hanrahan > Burnett.

NH has to make these trades to find pieces to make a good team.  If he would have kept the team status quo this year or last year, we would still be a terrible team.  they weren't much better at this point with Bay, Nady and McLouth.  Without those trades, we have a pitching staff of Duke, Snell, Maholm, Gorzo and Ty Taubenheim.  Does that staff win?  It didn't last year, and Maholm and Snell have gone downhill.  

People in here have to put things in perspective.  If the present isn't good, then make changes in the future.

Ben State -

We went to the game Saturday against the Royals and saw the same thing.  Well, at least my husband noticed it because he pointed it out to me.

Frisco hasn't won anything.  I've been using Boston Tampa and Philly as my models for winning with power.

Doc

My real issue with this trade is not so much who we gave up in Morgan, but who we received in Lastings First, Milledge.

There should be no place for this type of player in this organization.

First Tabata, now him.  

We are becoming the depository for the malcontent rejects.

"Sure give Opie a call over at the Pittsburgh Prison, he'll take anybody".

The insult was throwing in a valuable lefty like Burnett who is just coming into his own.

What a disaster.

rhuley.... Bob Nutting was chairman of the board when the board forced the ownership to cut salary. Since Benso was hurt and couldn't be traded, they dumped Aramis. I wouldn't hold him completely blameless. So I wouldn't absolve him completely.

Wake, I believe Milledge is better than NYjer, and I hope Hanrahan pitches more like last year and less like this year , but in no way can anyone say that right now this is definitely a slam dunk. I think its a win, but I won't know for a while.

pfin

charachter more important than hr?

come on now

Wake

>>How can this be a bad trade<<<

Three words

Lastings First, Milledge.

Wake,

No, I agree that you want more than 9HR.  My point is that Moss has played the equivalent of one ML season and is still quite young.  He has shown power previously in the minors and could still develop into that 15 - 20 guy.  I think he's still learning how to hit at this level.  

Lastings = Manny.  I'm cool with that, just leave the bullpen door open if he has to go to the bathroom.

Cave- We need guys who can shank.  

Cave,

There s no doubt Milledge is a risk, He is talented, but then so is Bradley. However the risk was likely worth it because it may well be a decent return ( he may flame out also) but we gave very, very little up in return. IMHO

IMO, if everyone is going to rate these players just on potential or just on what they have done in the majors, Milledge = McCutchen.  Milledge was viewed the same way as McCutchen before he made the majors.  And when he came up he didn't disappoint like McCutchen so far.  So if he has the potential, and it has been seen in the majors, then we can't write off Milledge as someone less than McCutchen yet.

CURRENT PIRATE STANDINGS AS OF 7.57 PST

6 GB OF THE BREWERS FOR NL CENTRAL

6 GB OF THE SF GIGANTES FOR NL WILDCARD

Great win considering all that happened today, No ground gained but at least we won...

LETS GO BUCS

Can the drama queens tone it down just a notch on the whole character issue deal?  He was late for meetings.  He high-fived some fans after a home run.  He has some maturity issues, he's not a criminal.

San Francisco wins without power because they have incredible pitching.  Lincecum, Cain, and Affeldt should all be All-Stars.

wake

I agree with your take on the trade (this trade has made some very strange combinations of people in agreement).  Curious:  is your fascination with Zobrist based on any scuttlebutt about him being on the block?  Or just Bartlett being healthy again, and the Rays love of Brignac?  Would Jack be a candidate to go back in that deal?

West Virginia leads last, 2-0. Tony Sanchez 1-4, RBI in his debut. Erik Huber 3-4, 2B, RBI, R. Rudy Owens: 6 IP, 6 H, 3 K. That's it. Clean sheet for Owens in the runs and walks categories. Hope he gets that ninth win.

Jeff Locke gets smoked in Lynchburg again. Kris Watts 2-2, Kent Sakamoto 3-4, Jordy Mercer 1-4, 2 RBI. Locke 3 IP, 8 H, 5 ER, 2 BB, 2K. Yuck.

Altoona's bullpen blows it...what else is new? Gorkys and Tabata a combined 0-11. Negrych 2-4, BB.  Dustin Moelleken blown save, SSmith the loss.

Brad Lincoln struggles mightily in no decision.  3.2 IP, 6 H, 6 R, 3 ER, 2 BB, 1 K, 1HR Allowed, 1 balk, 73 pitches, 46 strikes. Luis Cruz and Erik Kratz 2 hits each.

daryle,

the problem with being in last is that you have to go on a big run. i.e. the rockies.  we have almost no chance this year, but i love being this close so far in.  i am more excited that I will be able to take my boy (5 weeks old) to games and not be embarrassed.  I will not go to another game until we are over .500 in July, but I am liking all of the getting out of the trash by management.  lets hope we can get something for jack

thank you todd.

these guys complain about paying the taxes after hitting the lottery.

Opie has become frighteningly comfortable in trading away performance for potential.

It is a way for him to delay evaluation on his performance.

Don't look now, results are just a mere 3-4 years down the road.

Is that what they taught him sitting around the tables at The Lord Jeff,  in Amherst?  

Nice win.

Top four plays I liked.

1. Clutch made a nice catch.  Getting impatience at the plate though

2. Grabow coming back after Jack's error.

3, Solid start and pounded the inside of the plate by Ross.

4. No balls hit to right field.

These are not in any order.  Just my favorites from the game.

cave, you are so out of sight with the picture.  trading away talent?  

NYGER?  come on now.

its not like we traded for a s40 yr old starting pitcher whose fastball is 83 mph.  (littlefields death)

Cave,  you really feel the team was better off clinging to Nyjer and hoping for the best?  Is that really the strategy?

Madturk.... what is Cutch 1 for his last 20?

sometimes this blog infuriates me.  we have lost 16 straight years and the asylum is complaining that we are cleaning house?

THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE.

Todd

Without character, one tends  to live an egocentric existence

filled with self aggrandizement and a lack of awareness of your enviornment, and those that interact with you.

The Rays are big on Brignac, and Bartlett has been playing great this year.  They are looking for more bullpen help, and don't have a closer.  Zobrist is a player they can move.  

Obviously, there's some risk inherent in making this deal.  Otherwise, the Bucs wouldn't be able to obtain Milledge for a player who is clearly less talented.

These are the kind of risks a team like the Bucs have to make.  I am ecstatic about this trade.

cave, without power you lose.

egocentric is for us in our daily lives.  if you had an outfield of 3 barry bonds in his prime, or 3 nyjers in his prime plus 10 hr, what would you take for your team?

stealer

I said performance.

Think about the players he traded away.  They were all performing at a high level only to receive potential in return.

So we trade a team player for a head case? We trade a 2002 rookie of the year for nobody. A player we could not get to improve back to former glory? Yet we think we can turn a round a head case? I am not convinced based on past 16 years and this year we have the skills to turn around ANY ONES CAREER to improve the plight of the pirates. Much less keep them after they improve if they did. Sounds like I am going in circles. I agree, so are the pirates: ramirez, bay, nady, mclouth, morgan, kendell, giles.... I agree, all have reasons & stories for those trades that make sense. Its just the multitude of names we have given up to star elsewhere, but generated little for the pirates and little when they were with the pirates or after as to a winning season. Me I AM NOT IMPRESSED WITH THIS TRADE!!! Time will tell and I am happy to be wrong!! Go City of Champions and the Pirates. NICE WIN TONIGHT. Sanchez is awesome, way to comeback after the night before, like the All Star you are!  David

Just got back from the game a little while ago. I didn't get to pay much attention to the first few innings, but I was very pleased with the game. 8 K's 0 BB's and only 4 H's in 7 IP for Ohlendorf - excellent job! The crowd certainly got into the game in a big way once Grabow struck out 2 in a row after it started looking like things were going to fall apart. It's been awhile since the Pirates had a shutout, right?

The group I was with ate in the Hall of Fame Club before the game. I was pointing out who some of the wives were so a couple of the guys wanted to get a better look at some of them. We ended up talking to  Jenn LaRoche  who was one of the wives trying to get people to buy the $100 gift bags. I liked her. She's friendly.

I don't like listening to Rocco after the game, but once I got into my own car, I ended up putting him on since I only had a little bit further til I got home, and I my timing was great because  Jack Wilson  called in. He mentioned that he read online some of his quotes and pretty much indicated that some of it is stuff that gets said in the heat of the moment. I sympathize with the players since they appear to be a very close group (and  Jenn LaRoche  indicated that they are when we were talking to her), but as I said when McLouth was traded, the best thing they can do is just win more games than they lose if they don't want to keep seeing their teammates & friends get traded.

Todd

More than anything, it is Lastings First, Milledge  and the giving away of Burnett that I have a problem with.

Todd

Sadly, we won no pennants with either of them.

And for those talking about "business decisions" or "salary dumps," Milledge is arbitration eligible in 2010, and Hanrahan is already arbitration eligible, so down the line this trade will likely result in ADDING payroll.

Performance means nothing if it doesn't produce wins.  Bay was great, Nady was good, Morgan was good, McLouth was ok and with all of them, we still never had a shot at the playoffs.  NH is doing a good job, he has to keep trading until he fits in pieces.  Maybe the outfield could be set with Milledge, McCutchen, Tabata.  Maybe catcher is set with Doumit? Diaz/jaramillo/sanchez.  Maybe 3rd is set with LaRoche/Walker/Alvarez.  However, we still need to keep trading until we get pieces at every position.

cave

I give up.  

left fielder for our champions 2 hr 60% sb.

doesn't add up.

just so you know, i like nyjer just as much as anyone.  but i am tired of waiting for steelers opening day every June because the pirates have angered me so much I can't watch the carwreck anymore.

Amazing--a shutout win over the Cubs and so many complaints about the trades.  They time for that was earlier on the threads on the trades.

Ohlie had a great  start, the pen held up, Sanchez hit well , several other players contributed.

With that I am out for the night and back with what should be some very interesting links in the morning

 Good night to all and to all a good night

I live in the Washington D.C. area and follow the Nationals closely.  I'm not sure why the Pirates would want to get rid of a guy who is reported to be a great clubhouse presence (Morgan) or a lefty situational guy (Burnett) but that is a decision they are more qualified to make than me.

What I really don't understand is why they'd want Milledge or Hanrahan.  Milledge was exiled to Triple-A after the first week this year because his lack of performance on the field was surpassed only by his lousy attitude.  He gave an interview to the Syracuse paper after he arrived in Triple-A where he basically threw his Nationals teammates and the manager (Manny Acta) under the bus and said it was all their fault he didn't succeed.  Hanrahan is a complete pro -- never complains, takes the ball and gives you his best effort -- but he can't get anybody out.  The Nationals are the worst team in baseball largely because of their bullpen, and their bullpen is the worst in baseball largely because of Hanrahan, who at one point this year was leading the majors in blown saves.

Don't get me wrong -- I hope it works out for the Pirates and we Nationals fans are talking this time next year about how we let Milledge and Hanrahan get away.  But they'll have to make a serious turnaround for that to happen.

lastings is better right now,

unless he has been hanging out with jeff king or chad hermanson

More exciting news out of the minors:  Making their pro debuts this week . . . Rinku and Dinesh!!!!

sports.espn.go.com/.../story

When is the last time the Nats made a good trade???? Since becoming GM NH has built up are starting pitching in the majors and the minors and snagged more players off of waivers that have contributed then th previous GM did over his entire tenure. Alot of the players (save Bay) he has traded away only looked great in Pirate uniforms but just become good players on better teams after traded. Maybe just maybe it is the Nats that made a bad trade selling low to a team that was selling high. Just ask yourself does Nyjer start on a team that is a playoff contender? For what it is worth I really like Nyjer.

cave, i got you on burnett.  don't get that one

Mad...there was 1 play in RF that DY cut off nicely, actually.  :-)

Not to sound like a parrot, but I'd like to echo the sentiments of what I think is the majority here in the asylum. Dumping Hinske (no room for him here), and taking a chance with Milledge and Hanrahan is well worth the loss of Morgan and Burnett (both will be out of MLB in 3-5 yrs IMO). No dice were rolled... a wise baseball decision, pure and simple. Even if Milledge doesn't pan out, the depth is still there in the OF.

hurley said it all

@SilverSpring8 - I would have to disagree with you on the Nats having the worst bullpen in baseball. I saw the Indians bullpen last week and they are horrible. winning 5-0 in the ninth and they give up 4 runs and bases loaded before finally winning the game.

If we can get a player like Milledge for Morgan, in a perfect world, what could NH parlay LaRoche, Sanchez, Doumit, Grabow and Capps for?

I doubt we see Milledge for a while.I'm willing to bet if Salazar and Jones look good enough Milledge will probably be a Sept call up.Both these two were very intriguing in ST.Milledge in Septembridge.

Doumit? I don't think he will be going anywhere soon, but if he did they should get a lot. A power hitting catcher would net a huge return.

You know what would make this trade a no-brainer?  If the same personnel was running the Nats who were running the Expos in the 90's.  I'd take any prospect off of that organization.

lay off jack wilson....what he says is the truth...a lot of you clowns wouldnt know how to run a team even if it was makde up of 8 yr olds

good to see we are getting a character guy...maybe me first can teach my 10 yr old some new tunes (he's about down with the bucs after the last 2 yrs by the way...keep trading for those pie in the sky prospects

Lastings Milledge's rap has gone from bad to worse.

Milledge, who ticked off Met teammates last season with his on and off-the-field antics, has taken poor judgment to a new level, performing on a rap song that would make Don Imus blush.

The rappin' right fielder uses the N-word and *** and also says "ho" in a song featured on his new record label's Web site.

Milledge, the Mets' 22-year-old phenom playing at Triple-A New Orleans, is the CEO of Soul-ja Boi records, a Florida-based label. He performs on the Web site with rapper Manny D, a childhood friend who is signed to the label.

"He's lost his mind," said City Councilman Leroy Comrie (D-Queens), who sponsored the Council's resolution that condemned use of the N word. "I don't understand how he could, in the spirit of Jackie Robinson, put out music that's so vile, using . . . some of the worst words in music."

www.nydailynews.com/.../2007-05-16_lastings_latest_bad_rap-2.html

Wake, I hear you. The Expos had lots of talent back in the 80s and 90s and gave it all away. I work at a sports radio station in Montreal (alongside 2 ex play-by-play guys for the Expos), and 5 years later we're still thinking about what should have been if we were able to keep some of the top players/prospects.

(Of course, the Expos have always been my #2 team)

hurley,

I don't seen Doumit ever playing a full, healthy season in the majors.  He has some power, but he's not athletic enough to be a catcher.  Plus the wear and tear, the rest days and injuries might only get worse.  Trade him while he's young and other teams think he's worth it.

We need a broken record wing for this place!Where we could put the people who repeatedly post the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and  over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and  over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and  over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and  over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and overand over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and  over and over and over and over and over 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Pirates bullpen coach Luis Dorante will pitch to Albert Pujols during the home run derby in St. Louis. Ian Sell must be busy that day.

ron d,

All of this doesn't matter at all if he can play to potential.  What players do on personal team has no bearing on the team. If it doesn't work out, then we didn't give up much for him.

Pirates have clinched a winning month in June. The first winning June since 1996.

@wakerider - I noticed you keep harping on Tampa.  There's a snowball's chance in Tampa they give up Zobrist for Capps.  J.P. Howell as their closer is better than Capper on his best day if you haven't noticed.  Plus, they are trying to win now.  Contending teams trying to win the whole thing don't deal away starting players to allow room for rookies. No chance on your idea, none at all.

Hey, Gang! Great night at the ballpark. 3-0, good guys, Ohlendorf looked to have his sinker going PLUS he seemed to be able to dial it up a notch when he needed to. Mrs. Bay and I were joined briefly tonight by Capn ... with whom we bid our farewells ... and we were joined at the game by an old friend of mine from Cleveland who I hadn't seen in 11 years. Plus we got nice drop-by visits from Mr. and Mrs. Jersey Joe, and the Diehard family.

Posting two photos here ... One of me with Jersey Joe and his bride, and one of the Diehards. Tomorrow, we take in a West End overlook of the city and hopefully close things out with a W vs. the Cubs.

Here are the photo links:

community.post-gazette.com/.../PiratesGame5-007.jpg.aspx

community.post-gazette.com/.../PiratesGame5-009.jpg.aspx

Sooooooooooooo, Maz...are you saying there are some posters who repeat themselves?  ;-)

Bay-The interview with Ross after the game he kept talking about his slider.He said it kept them off balance and then he came in with the fastball.I noticed he hit 94,so he was really slinging it tonight.

i predict we make the playoffs!

and no i am not drunk.  just going to bed with high hopes.

DMac-I'm sure I do too,but some do it ad nauseum.They know who they are and I shan't use names.However I can copy and paste and reuse.How's this for the Rant of the Year?

The thing that was cool about Dorf tonight was that he had it so under control tonight that I could spend most of the time talking to my old friend. Then, when we were  icing, along came Jersey Joe and the Diehards to make it even better.

We are a work in progress, and for myself, I like the way the work is progressing ... Wouldn't it be neat if we see Garrett Jones and Jeff Salazar go off on a home run tear!

Maz, I'm still in awe of Thoroughly Modern Milledge! You should really get some posters done up on that, and market the hound out of that!

Bay- are you singing the National Anthem or Throwing out the first pitch..

Bayweek is 3-1.  You should be Recognized!!

Did anyone watch MLB's show tonight?

They basically said the nationals came away like bandits. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. They basically said since Morgan was gone so was the fun and they also said they have no idea what the pirates are trying to do.

Are they that clueless??

Or am I the crazy one?

========================================================

WhyStanBelinda! How are you doing,Buddy ... If our money wasn't running out, we'd do the Eastern Shore things and drop by and see you ...

Actually, the Pirates did drop by and visit me tonight ... they said there was an opening for a Mental Skills Coach ... So, who's on tomorrow? Vazquez? Should be interesting ...

Maz...I didn't mean to imply that you did that...I loved your post, that's all. :-)