Nationals pursuing Morgan in trade

Right now a starting pitcher and a middle INF would be preferable.The fans would howl.I guess I need to see what they have for INF first.

Not much for middle INFs OR 1B.They do have some good arms.Milledge seems like a #2 hitter or #7.Stay tuned folks.

good morning here and good nite there in the burgh. we will yet corner the market on CF! nyjmo is a wonder this year- just when I am ready to stop believeing he does SOMETHINGS. things happen around him the stats don't show.

however, last nite is proof the usual 6 hit pirate attack that fizzles can win if we put some long balls in the mix. I will miss nyjmo if he is capital bound, but the future is clutch, jones and moss in the OF, with a combined 70+HR and a gazillion runs.

maz- I think milledge has some secondary value in a trade for later in the year. if he comes her if I were him I would rent a room. you are right that we need some infielders- I haven't figured out how the greatest FO in the universe has a plan for that. the farm is not promising yet, so for the 2011/12 run, they need another solution. I bet they package one of our 'core' pitchers with some milledge-like folk for an infielder trade, probably at short, since jack is expensive. not that I want that, just playing FO.

and if you think finding news on the bucs in the us outlets is a problem, you should see the uk! the asylum is my only hold on my buc reality.

@rat i hope youre right about the milledge being trade bait.  an undisciplined free swinger with very little power (high 15 hr in minor league season) with a terrible attitude who doesnt listen to coaches (demoted for this earlier this year, and had the same problem with the mets).  while morgan is sometimes undisciplined at the plate, he has improved (last nights error notwithstanding) quite a bit in the field, and has an excellent attitude by most observers.  morgan is perceived to be a lower ceiling player while milledge still has the former elite prospect label (though i would argue that morgan is a special case since he started full time baseball much later than most, and in fact still has room to learn and improve, which he has shown this year, though his average is down).  i dont know anything about stammen, other than him having a pretty good aaa year before being called up this year.  minor league stats dont impress much outside of this year, though he is the all time leader in strikeouts at the baseball hotbed of university of dayton.  ive agreed with every single move that hunington has made so far, but this one smells bad at first sniff.  i dont expect anything great for morgan, as im aware that he is no better than a 3rd outfielder, but i think we are taking on a toxic attitude in his 4th major league service year.  he will be a free agent before he ever does anything here, IF.  i really hope they see something in stammen.

If the Nats want Morgan so bad, they should have to come up with a lot more than Milledge! Why not Stammen and a young INF prospect like Esmailyn Gonzalez? Too many CFs and not enough middle INFs.....BTW found that Morton picture, unfortunately he has a Braves cap on. Let's see if it works.......

From the last thread:

Baywatch wrote re: Morning links: About that Indy roster

on Sat, Jun 27 2009 12:50 AM

"We were sitting next to a guy from Delmont, who brought his kids to the game. One of these guys who doesn't really know about this team, but disgruntled with the trades ... When McCutchen came up, he leaned over and asked me, "Where did we pick him up?""

Hilarious Bay. I LOL'd at that.

Sounds like disaster to me.

We give up a team-oriented, selfless player in Nyjer Morgan. Remember folks, Nyjer didn't make a peep when we replaced him at the top of the order. In fact, he's been nothing but positive since he first donned a Pirates uniform. Not to mention he's a career .280 hitter.

In return, we get a guy whose performance so far has been worse than Nyjer's. Morgan has the better glove, speed, and swings for contact better. Milledge has a better power bat, but nothing to write home about (14 HR in a full season last year). No one in his previous clubhouses seemed to like him.

Milledge is 24, 3.5 years younger than Morgan. I don't think he'll be playing professional baseball past 27.

Lastly, all the talk recently has been about having AMc and Nyjer at the top of the order. Are we going to throw that away after 20 games when there's no one in our system who can step up right now to fill Nyjer's role?

Anyone have reasons the PBC would be interested in this trade?

I think it could be a good trade if the Pirates can get a good arm with Milledge. He does at least have some power, it appears more than most of the regulars on the team now.

Nyjer probably isn't going to be as fast in another couple years as he is now. I think he's having a career year, so to speak.

If the Nats are desperate enough and the Pirates can milk a good return, I'd say go for it.

It's not an official thing or anything, but the web-gem tally from Baseball Tonight has Wilson 5th in the majors in "points" which they award (for those who've sworn off ESPN). Just cool that Wilson's up there...

As for Milledge--eh. Poor attitude worries me, but he could be bait as prev. mentioned or Cutch could mentor him ;-). I'd prefer something else, but Morgan's still a (relatively) old, raw OFer. We'll see.

@Bay -

Nice pics.

You got a chin like Kirk Douglas.

Unfortunately for you, that's where the similarities end!

You old dog - marrying a woman half your age!

My hope coming out of spring training was that Nyjer would play pretty well and build up some trade value. (I can't remember if he had a bad spring or not, maybe I am misremembering, but I thought some felt that he hadn't earned a spot coming out of Bradenton.) I was of the opinion that Nyjer's greatest value to the Pirates was going to be as trade bait. I thought in April that either the Pirates start him and attempt to build trade value or just forget about it since he is turning 29 next week.

So it seems that he has built up some decent trade value with his speed and defense. I'd hate to see him move on since he's a very entertaining player but if the Pirates can get a good return for him, Huntington has to make that trade. Maybe Milledge can be packaged with someone like Laroche or Grabow and bring in a bigger return. I just don't really see that Nyjer's value is going to get much higher than it is right now. He's reaching his plateau years and the Pirates need to sell high.

Don't make this trade unless you pick up a pitcher to go along with Milledge.  

I saw Stammen pitch in DC a couple of times and the kid has some talent, but needs work.  He would be great to have in AAA for next year and beyond.

I saw that some are hoping for a middle infielder, but the Nationals do not have anyone worth tryiong out in those positions in the high minors.  Chris Marrero is among the top prospects, but he is 1B, and the Nationals are not likely to part with him.  To pick up an IF, we would need to look at A and AA which will have some serious negative reactions from the fanbase.

Either get a solid pitcher (we still do not have enough true talent at any level) and Milledge or talk to another team.  I think a trade may serve as a wkaeup call to Milledge as to how far he has fallen.

Just a thought, what is our OF after the trade?  McCutch, Moss, and ????(Young an adventure every play, Pearce who hopefully remembers that he really knows how to hit, Hinske, or maybe Garrett Jones / Jeff Salazar would get promoted....)

wakerider:  it looks lke you are taking on too much water.

It would flat out be irresponable to break up the middle infield without true replacements.

One one hand, I can see that Nyjer is at or near his peak value.  On the other hand, he is at his peak value to the Bucs, as well.  Keep in mind that Washington stinks out loud.  Why trade an OF for an older OF when you're 16 games behind in June? The trade makes no sense for Washington unless they really really want to get rid of Milledge because of attitude/immaturity issues.  I'm not opposed to trading Morgan, but I don't see anybody on the active roster who can fill his spot in the OF.  I'd make this deal if we were 10 games back, but I think it's premature to trade a productive starter if we're not addressing an area of immediate need.

BTW, DK.  Milledge is rehabbing in the GCL, not at AAA.  He played for the GCL Nats yesterday, (0-4, 2BB)

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<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  PROSPECT WATCH  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Today’s Topic: CATCHER (stats thru 6/26/09)

Steve Lerud – Bats L – Altoona (3rd  Round, 2003 Draft)

2 HR 12 RBI  .253  ** 50 Games 162 ABs, 13 R, 41 H, 33K, 20 BB, 1SB

Kris Watts – Bats L – Lynchburg (16th  Round, 2006 Draft)

4 HR 28 RBI  .309  ** 53 G, 165 ABs,  37 R, 51 H, 20K, 35BB, 2 SB

(Jorge) Tony Sanchez – Bats R – State College (1st Round, 2009 Draft)

0 HR 1 RBI  .308  **  4 G, 13 ABs, 2 R, 4 H,  2K, 1 BB, 0 SB

Andrew Walker – Bats R – West Virginia (5th  Round, 2007 Draft)

1 HR  13 RBI  .211  ** 35 G, 114 ABs,  14 R, 24 H, 28K, 20 BB, 0 SB

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

...keep the asking price HIGH for Morgan

Let's not settle for two Single A ptichers "with potential"

"Anyone have reasons the PBC would be interested in this trade?"

If I was Neal Huntington, I would've made this trade yesterday. First of all, such a move would be the definition of buy-low sell-high. The majority of fans on the PBC blog seem to fail to understand this concept. While Milledge hasn't exactly set the major leagues ablaze, he has been far from terrible. His career .726 OPS is slightly superior to Morgan's .714.

His career minor league line of 303/381/476 is actually superior to Andrew McCutchen's and indicates that he has the ability to provide above average offense for a corner outfielder. Most importantly, Milledge actually has the bat to play right field. While Morgan is fun to watch and easy to root for, a winning team cannot afford to sacrifice offense at the expense of defense in right field. Morgan's bat is perfectly adequate for center, but horribly below average for a corner outfield position. Washington's outfield situation was badly congested at the beginning of the season and apparently sending Milledge a message was the best way to clear it up. I've also read that he is a friend of McCutchen's, so perhaps watching McCutchen succeed would have a positive impact on Milledge.

He is only 24, which is the age many major leaguers are just getting their shot. While he no longer looks like a surefire star, the potential certainly still exists. The chemistry in Washinton's clubhouse is supposedly horrid, so it wouldn't surprise me if Nyjer's affable personality is one of the main factors in their desire to acquire him. I will be thrilled if we make this move.

Correction to the above post: "Most importantly, Milledge actually has the bat to play LEFT field. While Morgan is fun to watch and easy to root for, a winning team cannot afford to sacrifice offense at the expense of defense in LEFT field. "

I don't worry that there would be a big drop off in LF if Milledge took over for Morgan, but it's the old bird in the hand, one in the bush thing.  What if he turns out to be Milton Bradley?

Huh.

I'd do the Morgan for Milledge deal straight up if necessary.

It's good that Huntington is trying to extract more, but I wouldn't let the Nat's off the hook with at least making the Morgan for Milledge deal.

Milledge is younger, also good defensively, has good SB potential, and more power than Morgan. Overall Milledge has significantly more upside than Morgan IMO.

IMO to be afraid of Milledge's attitude is a sign of not being confident in the leadership skills of the Bucco coaching staff. If they can't steer a kid properly, maybe we have the wrong coaches.

Not that long ago Milledge was once considered one of the brightest young prospects in the game and still is only 24. To spin Morgan off for Milledge would be a very nice accomplishment. Morgan is older and really has no pedigree.

I saw make it so Neal. Don't blow it.

I see it the same as you BBB.

"Why not Stammen and a young INF prospect like Esmailyn Gonzalez?"

There is no Esmailyn Gonzalez.  His real name is Carlos Alvarez Daniel Lugo and he's four years older than he was thought to be when the Nats signed him.  He's not currently in the US because he can't get a visa due to the fraud perpetrated on the Nats.  Jim Bowden and Jose Rijo both got effectively fired over the fiasco.

The Nats have some serious internal, uh, cultural issues.  It might actually help Milledge to get out of there.  Morgan, on the other hand, has the fourth lowest OPS among regular left fielders, over a hundred points below average.  The Pirates can't possibly go anywhere without getting more offense out of that position, and they're not going to get a surefire All-Star for Morgan because he just doesn't have the bat to be a regular and he's too old to be expected to improve.  They're going to have to take some risks to upgrade.

$$$$$  BODY WATCH – ATTENDANCE AT MLB PARKS $$$$$

Thru 6/26/09

30. PIRATES ….. 33 dates ** 596,482 total  **  18,075 avg.

29. Florida……… 39 dates ** 711,102 total  **  18,233 avg.

28. Oakland……. 35 dates ** 646,844 total  **  18,481 avg.

27. Cleveland….. 36 dates ** 805,967 total  **  22,387 avg.

26. Tampa Bay… 37 dates ** 831,860 total  **  22,482 avg.

1. NY Yanks … 35 dates ** 1,578,148 total   **   45,089 avg.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I'm not confident in the leadership skills of the Bucco coaching staff. Maybe we have the wrong coaches.

Well, son of a gun, I agree totally with NH's assessment.

Being in the DC area, I've read a fair amount about the Nats' situation and have heard from people who are familiar with the team.  They've had some major clubhouse problems due to Bowden's fascination with bad citizens.  The Pirates seem to have a much better atmosphere.

Good to see NH and WTM weigh in with some logical opinions, as the blog's negative reaction to this deal is somewhat alarming. Frankly I'm a bit concerned that Huntington is trying to add another player. Milledge should be more than enough and I'd hate to see another GM swoop in and offer someone better than Morgan for him. Get this done, Neal!

This is interesting, but I worry about the attitude thing, too.  Anybody remember a guy named Ian Snell??  Loads of talent---not coachable...you get the picture.

Very nice photos, Baywatch!  My son was at the game last night, too.  You all saw a good one!  Hope your stay brings more wins for the Buccos---enjoy your reunion with the Burgh!

Sorry for not showing up yesterday to do this.

Today i'll post this in two places!

Template

THE OFFICIALLY UNOFFICIAL PBC BLOGS AND MLB LINKS:

- Bucs Dugout: Nationals interested in Nyjer Morga :

http://www.bucsdugout.com/

- WHYAVS: Game 73: Pirates 5, Royals 3:

http://whygavs.com/

- MVN PBC.: PIRATE REVOLUTION: PITTSBURGH LUMBER CO. : SANDLOT SWASHBUCKLERS: MLB Great Debates: Which playoff contender needs a trade to stay in the race :

http://mvn.com/mlb/pirates/

- Raise the Jolly Roger: Power Surge: Royals 3, Pirates 5:

www.raisethejollyroger.com

- Hyzdu Headquarters: This week on the farm:

http://hyzduhq.blogspot.com/

- Honest Wagner: Game 73, Royals at Pirates:

www.honestwagner.blogspot.com

- The Burgh Blues: There are others:

theburghblues.mlblogs.com

- The Green Weenie: Bombs Away in Pittsburgh :

www.oldbucs.blogspot.com

- In Clemente Weather: More Tony Sanchez :

inclementeweather.blogspot.com

PBC NEWS & NOTES (TODAY’S TOP PBC STORIES):

- PBC Homepage: Vasquez picks up first victory in Pirates debut :

pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/index.jsp

"What if he turns out to be Milton Bradley?"

Even better, as Bradley is a very effective hitter who has some personality issues. There are plenty of major leaguers with similar attitudes, but Bradley gets all the press because the media seemingly loves to crucify the angry black man. While Bradley is occasionally out of line, I certainly wouldn't mind having him on my team.

All kidding aside, Milledge may have some issues with maturity but I think they're overblown. He might rub some people the wrong way, but he's not a criminal like his teammate Elijah Dukes.

I am with Hostage and BBB on this one - and nice catch on the Player Formerly Known as "Esmailyn gonzalez," WTM!

No offense, the whole problem with the internet at times is that once a "name" gets lodged in people's heads nothing seems to be able to dislodge it, even when it resulted in massive disruption to the Nat's FO!

As I posted yesterday, I really believe that Nyjer's true destiny is a late-inning defensive replacement and/or pinch runner. I think that this IS the career year for him and that if there is a time to pull the trigger on a trade for Milledge, I say do it.

I really think that folks need to disabuse themselves of the notion that Morgan is better than he is and that somehow the Nats (or any team) would want him so badly they would give up a boatload of elite middle-infield prospects for him.

The potential return DK reported is, imho, more than Morgan is worth if it includes Stammen and about even-up if not.

Jose

I showed my wife the headline for the blog entry and she her response was "What!  We finally got our sh*t together. And we're not missing Nate"

I hope they don't trade for Milledge.  I don't think Nyjer is a long-term starter here, but he could be a starter next year and a very good 4th OF after that.  If they do trade, I agree with some other, it should be for a middle infielder.

I really like having the speed of Morgan and McCutch at the top of the order.  And I still think Nyjer should bunt every time AMc is on base.

Enjoy your trip here in the Burg , Bay.

Every time I hear the name Lastings Milledge I think of Midre Cummings. Something about the m's and the ings I guess. :)

"All kidding aside, Milledge may have some issues with maturity but I think they're overblown. He might rub some people the wrong way, but he's not a criminal like his teammate Elijah Dukes."

That's exactly what I've been told.

I don't get the impression Snell has poisoned the Pirates' clubhouse, either.  His issues seem to affect only him.  Like Snell or any other player, Milledge would have to **** or get off the pot on his own merit, but I don't see why any issues he might have would extend beyond that.

SAY IT AIN"T SO, NYJMO

No more head cases, please.

Let's not forget the positive influence that Nyjmo has on Cutch.

These two are very close and have played together coming up the minor league ladder.

Milledge is just another in a long line of over hyped athletes who began their careers in NY but were not good enough to stay there.

Hondo,

Your Milledge / Cummings would be a good comparison except that Milledge hit .266 / 14 / 61 / 24 SB's 138 games as a 23 yr old.

Cummings never hit more than 5 HR's in a season at any age. He never drove in more than 31 runs, or stole more than 3 SB's in a season either. Throughout his ENTIRE major league career.

So in other words,,,,,,,there really is no comparison.

This is a chance for Neal to sell Nyjer at perhaps his highest value, and to buy Milledge at his lowest value due to his broken thumb.

Selling high, buying low is a good combination.

This is Neal's chance to finally get a deal right. - I hope he doesn't blow it.

It's a beautiful day in the Burgh! Good Morning, Hoss, Cave, WTM, Hondo, Thundercrack, Jose (Enjoy your time w/your son, Buddy!), Bring Back ("When you grow up, Girl!") Plenty,KMRemple, Roxtar, Joey Bats, JJ and ...

Curious George, my main Early Risin' Man! Thanks for identifying me with Kirk Douglas, but Mrs. Bay says to tell you she's the older one ... just half my size!

Oh, and DMac ... a big shout out to you, too ... 'cause I know you're lurking somewhere.

Dahntahn, Bay

No offense Cave, but in my opinion Cutch is a heck of a player who does not need Morgan or anyone else to be a sort of human security blanket.

Milledge's "problems" may have had more to do with being in an organization in turmoil more than anything else. If he can be obtained and all we lose is Morgan, than I think that is a good trade. We get something we need (some power at a corner outfield spot) and they get something they need (leadoff batter). Those are the best trades - when each team walks away happy with filling a need.

Jose

Well, gotta run! Good morning to you Mr Bay! Hope you are enjoying the trip and the 'Burgh!

Jose

Hostage

Indeed ;  buy low sell high is a good approach, but you first have to be able to identify both.

Just because the NATS show an interest, does not translate into Nyjmo being at peak value, or even close to it.

I think he is just starting to feel comfortable up here and his value will be exponentially higher next year.  

As any good stock trader will tell you, you don't sell on the breakout.  You let the stock run up first, then move it.

GOOD MORNING BAYWATCH!!!!

I hope you are enjoying your trip.......

BAY

Thx for the pics.

You've been holding out on us.  You never disclosed that you were a dead ringer for none other than Lt Commander Quinton McHale.

Cave,

Both are already identified.

Nyjer is a former 33rd round pick who at age 28 is just now earning full time play at the major league level.

Milledge is a former #1 pick who was able to earn full time play at the major league level last season at age 23 and produced better results than Morgan will this year.

It's a no-brainer. Really, it is.

The more I think about it the more concerned I am that Huntington didn't immediately pull the trigger on this deal. Did he present the deal to Coonelly only to have him nix it for PR reasons? Any smart GM would realize this is a great deal for Morgan and not press their luck by trying to add another player. Don't pander to the bobblehead crowd Frank! Make it happen!

I wonder if Milledge is an example of a young player that was hyped and may have been rushed to the big leagues.  

It sure does look like the Bucs made the right decisions with McCutcheon.

Jose

A mentor and a security blanket are polar opps.

A mentor brings the best out in you.  

A security blanket will keep the best covered up.

I love Nyjer, but Milledge is a real, major league ready prospect.  He is younger and has more upside than Nyjer.  So, I'll be happy to keep Nyjer, but I will also be happy with a trade that makes us better.

Cave,

   Milledge is just as fast as Morgan if not faster and should be similarly effective in left field. His arm is much better and has offensively outperformed Morgan in his short time in the majors. What is holding you back from liking this deal? Nyjer's personality? I like the guy too but I don't allow it to cloud my judgement. Personality and chemistry is overrated in baseball.

Just a reminder, JAL's defintion of power is over 35 home runs a year for at least six years.  You upgrade, upgrade with purpose.

Go figure, some can not get over the slam dunk Nady trade of last year as he is going under the sharp edge and marte  might as well be with him. while you want to shove Mr. Morgan under the bus for what, just what some of the complaints have been, no clear record of an upgrade over our guy.

To the FO hold tight and make them give you whatever key you want or they do not want him they want to steal him.

We are the Pirates, we are to do the stealing like the nady trade and now it is looking like maybe the Nate trade and the joey boy trade and at some point most will get on board with the Jason trade, we do the stealing.   ROBERTO.

@Cave - Come on, now! Couldn't you guys have stopped at Kirk Douglas ... but now, I look like Ernest Borgnine? Honestly, the only two people in show business I was told I looked like ... and this only as recent as back in the 70s ... was Radar on MASH, and Baretta!

Hostage

If this is such a no brainer, then why in the world are the Nats settling for Nyjmo?

From their perspective,  the answer is that their player has already peaked and our's is just coming into his own with his prime still ahead of him.  

This is an opportunity for them to pawn off a malcontent under the guise of selling low.

Buying on the cheap is a negative ownership trait you have railed on about for quite some time.  

Why is this any different ?

Just because you are buying at low value doesn't make it a wise investment.

I live in NY. Milledge didn't make it in NY because he wasn't talented enough, he had a great first year up with the Mets. He was a clubhouse cancer. The Mets had enough other good players that they didn't want to have a young guy around who complained day in and day out when he wasn't playing, who was eternally selfish, and never ceased to remind anyone who listened that he was the greatest thing since slied bread.

Is Milledge a better player than Morgan? He certainly can be. Not to make any comparrisons to the Steelers FO, but they do pretty well purposely AVOIDING clubhouse problem players.

I'm torn about the possibility, but with Moss in right coming around hitting, our NEED for an outfielder is diminishing.

Bring Back Bonds wrote re: Nationals pursuing Morgan in trade  

Personality and chemistry is overrated in baseball

that sure explains that

BBB

If someone offers us a baseball player and not a head case in a baseball uniform then i will grudgingly go along with the deal.

Why invite trouble to the party ?

The Pirates have read the flashing red lights correctly.  He is trouble and no one wants him.  That is why Opie asked for the extra player, so if Milledge fails, he will still have something to show from the deal.  

Opie reasons that if I am to take on the risk of this malcontent, then I need addiitional compensation to justify it .

Good morning, everyone.  Great night at the ballpark last night - not only for baseball but for the sheer pleasure of sitting outside looking at the skyline.  Great night.

Bay, Irate told me you were out there in right field, first row, and maybe I'd be able to spot you - I was directly opposite - but there was no way.  I can't see faces that far.  What a great night for your first game.

I see that many people have weighed in positively for Milledge, including WTM whose opinion I always find interesting.  I was all set to say No Way to this trade, but I will defer.  I hope you guys are right.  I spent quite a while in NYC hearing the daily reports of his exploits there and many of them weren't pretty.

Another game tonight.  I hope they're on a roll.  Paul needs a good one.

Cave said:

"The Pirates have read the flashing red lights correctly.  He is trouble and no one wants him.  That is why Opie asked for the extra player, so if Milledge fails, he will still have something to show from the deal."

Hold your cards, we have a bingo!

Good morning all,

I agree with roxtar.  When you are in the business rolling dice like this, it helps to get many dice.  I think that Washington knows they aren't in the position to develop LM.  Maybe Pit can but it's good to hedge your bet... or milk the situation.

To gauge LM's potential for self destruction,  Is he perceived to be worse that Jose Tabata in the attitude dept.  That seems to be going well for us.  

"Just a reminder, JAL's defintion of power is over 35 home runs a year for at least six years.  You upgrade, upgrade with purpose."

First of all, this is a ridiculous statement. You aren't a power hitter if you don't hit 35 home runs a year for six plus years? Good lord, I suppose there are only four or five power hitters in the major leagues then. Is JAL suddenly the be-all end-all opinion? Is there something I'm not aware of here? I'd carry on further but that statement really has no merit.

Secondly, I liked and supported the nady and bay trades when they happened and still don't have any qualms about them. I initially disapproved of the players we received in the McLouth deal, but i probably undervalued Morton and will defer to Huntington's judgement. The negativity towards a potential Milledge trade is simply a case of Pirate fans overvaluing their own players.  

Bring Back,

Wouldn't that be a swift kick in the nuts if Coonelly denied this particular request over PR concerns?

This would be Huntington's best trade so far and to have it nixed for that reason would be just awful.

BAY

Were you aware that our 2008 11th round selection, OF David Rubenstein, grew up in Charlotte and went to Appalachian State?

"I see that many people have weighed in positively for Milledge, including WTM whose opinion I always find interesting.  I was all set to say No Way to this trade, but I will defer."

Good idea. If certain people on this blog spent more time perusing Wilbur's website, there would be significantly less foolish opinions.

Cave -

>>If this is such a no brainer, then why in the world are the Nats settling for Nyjmo?<<

My thoughts exactly. Why are the Nats trading such a talented prospect for someone who is so much older etc. etc.? Must be a reason.

I followed Millege ever so slightly watching him on televised Nats games. He definitely has issues not related to baseball talent. Not that those can't be over come. But with Snell already in need of a couch, do the Pirates want to be picking up players that will require hiring Dr. Phil as the next member of the coaching staff.

Gang, the trade scene is something that always puts me in a quandry. I mean, just the idea of our Nyjer leaving ... Sacre Bleu! Heck, he's been MY security blanket, forget about Cutch!

But being one who's behind the FO's current mission, I've seen the merit in them ... or can see ... On this one, I lean more toward Neal's aim of getting a good pitcher in addition to Milledge ... as others have said, right now, who needs another outfielder around here. And I'd say, practically speaking, Milledge would just turn out to be a rental ... unless we start winning PRETTY QUICK.

To anyone:

The thing i don't understand about this potential trade is why are we trading MLB for MLB.  I thought that we were trading for prospects to build the system.  Nyj could be a great leadoff CF fit for many teams.  What is LM's contract like.  Stop me if I'm talking out of my butt.  I don't mind.

barry bonds, so you want to lower the bar to include more.

I do not need to do the math to know how many power hitters there are, I do know this, someone who has not hit 100 major league homeruns in not yet a power hitter.

TS,

Please stop talking out of your butt.

;-)

Good morning inmates near and far. On first blush I thought NO to this trade. We don't need another head case, just sent one down.  I like the idea of the Pirates holding out for a good young pitcher.  But I can also agree that this might be the right time to move Morgan at his peak value. When I lived in Houston, the Astros would acquire players who had bad reputations on other teams, and they wouldn't cause a problem in the Stros clubhouse. That was because Bagwell and Bigio were leaders who took no crap from anyone. Who is the "leader" in the Bucs clubhouse that can keep that same kind of order?  If that person/person's exist, then maybe getting a Milledge might work out. Also take into account that we the bloggers are being tested by the club on this one.  They're looking at our reactions here to gage  general public response to this possible gtrade, and the others that are currently in progress but still under wraps.

Going strictly by talent, this would be a no brainer.  

However Morgan has it all over Milledge on the intangables and that does need to be factored into a player's value.

Players with lousy attitudes are not well accepted in Pittsburgh.  This is still a blue collar town mentally.  THe masses don't tend to excuse horrible attitudes just because someone has talent.  Consider how Milledge would react when the fans start getting on him, which is guaranteed to happen.  I am guessing it would not go well.

And from an earlier thread:

I have been keeping count after every win all season counting down to a season where the Pirates merely don't have a losing season.  It is not the goal to be mediocre, but, friend, mediocre ain't bad.

We've been bad for a long time.  I'll take mediocre if I think its on the way to good and I think our team has finally found its rudder and is building in positive ways.  Of course I want a contender in Pittsburgh.  Mediocre is half way there at least from where we've come.

Furthermore, 17 years of losing is a major league record for futility.  Losing to draft a rookie, however talented, will not counter-balance that kind of black mark.

I am concerned that the front office would move Jack and Freddy this season without adequate replacements.  If they do that, I would be sorely disappointed.  I think it is important to win.  I think it is important not to lose.  The Pirates simply have to get to .500 this season in my view.  That would be something.

I am placing all the good faith I have in this management team and these players that they can do it and I am pulling for this bunch of players so hard.  This is a bond of trust and hope and honesty, the things that make baseball worthwhile.

There are those out there who do not trust this management team.  I understand their frustrations and points of view.  I, however, am placing my faith in them and in this team.  God, I hope they deliver.  I hope they don't make of me the fool that you think I am.

Wabbit.

-------

Wabit:

I agree with the majority of your comments. But unfortunately this is still a business. Hope and faith and trust are fine, but business decisions will be made in the next month. And most likely, some of them will anger/dissapoint many of us. They will challenge our faith and trust and loyalty in the Pirates.  But yes, I agree, 82 wins is a good step forward torwards respectability and a winning team.

NuHo

Thanks, it does that when I'm not watching.  :-)

I have no problem picking up a talented player, but due to the risk, I think that Huntington would be irresponsible to not push for a 2nd player to be included.  Stammen by himself is a solid prospect and could be a solid contributer in the coming years.  Push hard for the pitcher along with Milledge.

Sell really high!!!!  The Nationals really have no choice as they are worse than the Pirates have been in the past.  This could even turn into a Rameriz like trade for Bobby Hill (except with us getting the high side)!!!!!

Milledge is under team control through 2012.

We're not talking Reggie Jackson or Dick Allen here.  Hardly a no-brainer, IMO.  Lillibridge has been a cancer (or at least an annoyance/complainer)  at 2 organizations.  If he would become one here, it would be even harder to trade him for anything.  While the clubhouse seems pretty good right now, there are no Dirty Dougs to knock him around if need be.  I do like the extra pop potential.  I think it may very well happen because LL's OBP indicates he is selective, which the coaches and FO like.  But if LL fails, who do we have to put in LF in PNC?  Moss is a decent right fielder, but I didn't like him in left last year.

DMac--another one of those "Andy's glove to Jack to 1B" plays last night.  Like the other ones, I don't know how Jack does it.

Bay--Welcome!

Sorry,meant LM, not LL.

Please also note that I still hold my seat right beside the bus driver on the Morgan Mobile, and have been there since before the season started, and can still see that this trade could possibly be a great one (if Stammen is included - throw them a A or AA prospect as well - not a real good one, but a warm body).

Umm, Wilver.

Nice response and all, but we're talkling about the prospect of acquiring Lastings Milledge. Not Brent Lillibridge.

If we were, I'd agree with you. Morgan for Lillibridge isn't a big deal.

This is hard, but I find myself agreeing with NuttyBuddy:-)

IMHO if we can get a major-league ready OF replacement who is younger than Nyjer and who can provide more power than Nyjer, MAKE THE TRADE.

Nyjer's enthusiasm and love for the game make him a joy to watch. Frankly he has done much better this year than I thought he would or could. That being said, I still don't feel that in the long run, he is good enough to be a ML corner outfielder. He's better suited for CF, and I hope that position is handled for the next decade or so.

Count me among those who say make the trade, Neal. You may never get a better offer.

ts--I don't think you are talking out your butt at all.  I, too, wondered about LM's contract situation.  Seems like he had 2 years with NYM, then two with Nats, including this year.  Is he in his 4th of six before free agency or 3rd of 6?

All I can say at this point, is "interesting."  It's hard to evaluate a deal that hasn't gone down.  Given that DK's sources are true and accurate, the FO doesn't think Morgan for Millidge straight up is a good enough deal.  

Morgan may not be the ultimate answer for the Bucs in LF, but as I've said before it is easy to discount him because of his late start in baseball.  He is still essentially learning the game and probably has more upside than his numbers indicate.  Besides he's just fun to watch -- part of the value of a Bucs ticket.  

Millidge also has a high upside.  And the trade would be one that could be defended.  And it would probably would have to be since the guy also has some issues.  Some people fit in anywhere, some people most places, and we'd like to hope that most people work out well somewhere.  So maybe the Pirates culture, which is turning positive would work out for him.  Who knows, it's all speculation.

But as for Morgan's trade value -- well, this is the first time we've heard of any serious interest in him -- and you don't marry the first girl you meet.  I think he'd be worth more if we hang on to him unless we get one spectacular offer.  

Eventually though, since our system depth is in outfielders, we need to think about strengthening the rest of the club.  And someone will obviously no longer be with us.  

BBB said team has him through 2012.(Thanks BBB)  That is not as bad as i feared.  I like Plush but if they get LM at his lowest value and a legit minor league pitching prospect they should probably pull the trigger.

Bay

I vote for Kirk Douglas...believe it or not I was going to post that last night when I saw your pics.

as for Morgan he is as good as gone since my wife said he and Cutch are her new favorite players after they traded her last couple of favorite players

If you are making the move for the core left fielder would you not want to be a little patient and try to get another one like Willie.

We willi have the time to get the guy who will knock them out for sometime.  Somebody with more power than Jason, more power than Nady, more power than Nate, lots of power, is this the guy?

Why not make a big move for proven big time power?

If they think this is the guy, then why are we getting him offered to us?

If the clubhouse has a disease and they say he is not playing to potential because of the house feelings, then he is infected.

Infectious removal ranges from the body cleaning it out all by itself to surgery.  This would be another big deal, I think it prudent to have the proper diagnosis to ensure insurance payment

NuHo--I just liked the name "Lastings Lillibridge."  If he's out there I say, by all means, let's go get him!  ;-)

I did look at LM's stats before I commented, and because I have friends in the  DC area, I know something about how he is perceived, so my comments stand.  We ain't talking Reggie Jackson or Dick Allen potential here.  And after 3+ years, I think his performance is more important than where he was drafted---see Kip Wells.  Just something to consider in the mix.  I'm actually comfortable leaving the decision in Neal's hands.  

I understand the concerns about Milledge's attitude, but the upgrade in talent is too big to ignore.  Having said that, let's hope NH can hold out for an arm out of Washington's system, if not Stammen, then someone else.

This really is a no-brainer.  It's a calculated risk on the part of the Bucs, but when the opportunity to add a real talent arises, you have to go for it.  Morgan's close to reaching his peak production; Milledge is not.

I've heard it said that we need middle infield depth in the system and i agree but they seem to be at a premium.  What teams are deep in middle infield prospects?  Do they need outfielders?

JHadar wrote:

"Morgan may not be the ultimate answer for the Bucs in LF, but as I've said before it is easy to discount him because of his late start in baseball.  He is still essentially learning the game and probably has more upside than his numbers indicate.  Besides he's just fun to watch -- part of the value of a Bucs ticket."

Very good points indeed, and I agree to an extent. The one thing that worries me is the "learning the game" aspect. If he were 19 or 20, no problem, but he is 28. My concern is that by the time he has reached his full potential he could be 36 or older. How long does it take for a player to make it to the bigs in a game he has played all his life? Nyjer's first love was hockey so for 20 years he concentrated on hockey. Apparently he saw he wasn't going to make the NHL (just guessing here) so he decided to turn his attention to baseball. That he has made it to the bigs in the time he did is admirable and he truly is a lot of fun to watch. He seems to energize the whole team. All that being said, given his age and relative newness to the game, why not make a trade if someone is interested?  

Hostage,

Indeed. I'm not sure how appropriate it is to question that considering they had to know the McLouth deal and Sanchez pick would both be PR disasters. Still, I'm surprised NH didn't immediately pull the trigger and there has to be a reason for it. Perhaps they are particularly sensitive after angering such an overwhelming portion of the fan base?

Wilver,

 Milledge is under team control through 2012.

Good morning everyone!

We marched before dawn from Morning Links to this...it's going to be a busy day if that keeps happening.

I don't know much about Milledge, so I'll have to defer until I have a chance to give it a look, but I'm one of those who doesn't believe clubhouse chemistry is overrated.  If that's an issue, I don't want it here...but that's MO.

@AW...That was a beautifully backed-up play on Jack's part.  Andy made a great lunge but it skipped by him and with most other SS that would have been a single.

I remember a number of years ago when the Pirates signed Kenny Lofton and Matt Lawton. Both of these guys were problem children who had severe attitude problems.

While they were in Pittsburgh, there was never a problem with them and their attitude problems never surfaced. They were professional and well liked in the locker room.

Make the trade and keep trying to get more off the Nats if you can.

Good morning everyone!

We marched before dawn from Morning Links to this...it's going to be a busy day if that keeps happening.

I don't know much about Milledge, so I'll have to defer until I have a chance to give it a look, but I'm one of those who doesn't believe clubhouse chemistry is overrated.  If that's an issue, I don't want it here...but that's MO.

@AW...That was a beautifully backed-up play on Jack's part.  Andy made a great lunge but it skipped by him and with most other SS that would have been a single.

I don't get the fascination with Stammen.

He's had just an ordinary trek through the minors......really nothing outstanding.

I wouldn't let that get in the way of this deal.

FSF---If you accept that " Morgan's close to reaching his peak production; Milledge is not." you and NH may be correct that it is a no-brainer.  I don't accept that as a foregone conclusion.  There are too many other factors to consider.  

Greetings inmates…..

I feel more inclined to line up behind the Hostage crowd concerning this potential trade.

I don’t know if Nyjer has achieved his max potential yet, but considering that teams may view him as a starter in CF that can hit leadoff, then we may be able to acquire a more talented and younger player to keep or trade. Nyjer is not nearly as valuable playing at LF; there is no place for him in our CF with AMac, and his value may decrease overtime if his offensive numbers stay about the same and he remains at LF (& not batting leadoff).

This may not be the only offer that we receive, but it looks to me like we would receive good return for a player that isn’t playing the position that best utilizes his speed.

Just the fact that ONE team is aware of Morgan at THIS time is a signal there might be MORE interest by other teams.Hold steady Neal and be patient.If we don't make this trade...we don't lose anything.Nyger might be good bait this winter.

I know the trade probably makes sense for our "future", but it is too much fun watching Tony Plush do his thing.  He's become a favorite of mine.  Spices up the scene.  However, this trade talk has done one very good thing to this blog, cut down on the trashing of Ian Snell.  He is a really nice person and has talent.  Let's hope the change will bring it back.

Nice pics Bay.  Welcome home.  Did you get to see the new Forbes Field exhibit at the Heinz History Center?

You're right NuHo, I don't get that either.  I guess NH sees something in him, but he's not a dealbreaker in my eyes.

Maybe they can pry someone else from the Nats, even if it's for organizational depth, but if they insist on Milledge for Morgan straight up, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Arriba,

Nyjer turns 29 next week.  It's rare that players develop much past that age, so it's a pretty safe bet that Morgan is close to reaching his peak. At 24, there is still significant room for Milledge to develop.  And overall, Milledge is already a more productive major league player than Morgan.

Ken,

I admit I've put on a few lately but to refer to me as a "crowd" is just plain mean.

;-))   <======Notice the double chin.

FormerSox,

Completely agree.

I'm BAAAAACKKKKKKKK

Memo to Neal:

Back way from the telex do not make this trade.

If our manager was Lou Pinella or Tony LaRussian, I still wouldn't make this trade, there are way too many unknowns and what if's for this to male sense. If you are comparing him to Bradley, just a little peak at SportsCenter from last night,Bradley throws a hissy fit in the Cubs dugout and is SENT HOME by the manager, that is the best comparison I have heard, LM booted outta NY and now being TOSSED outta DC? He ain't that much better than Nyjmo, unless you are a chick who likes the long ball. Wait Nyjmo didn't he hit another one last night?

My inclusion of Stammen is just to state that the player named by the club is one that I have seen and thought he had potential.  He alone is not enough to make the trade, as the main piece would be Milledge, but the FO needs to have more than one player since Milledge is not really a guarantee (injured, demoted, attitude, tons of talent yes but with baggage).  

I think Stammen may be able to be refined and his control brought together with Kerrigan or in AAA.  The Nationals have some good pitching so why not pluck some of it along with MIlledge?

I asked a good friend and huge baseball fan in Northern Virginia what he thought about the proposed swap and received the following response:

"Anything to get rid of Milledge. Hahahaaaaaaaa. "

OK, checking out from the Renaissance ... wonderful stay.

All you Burghers out there ... LET'S DO LUNCH AT VINCENT'S, Green Tree, 1:30 p.m.!

Be there or be square, KNOWHUTTAMEAN, VERN?

"I don't get the fascination with Stammen.

He's had just an ordinary trek through the minors......really nothing outstanding.

I wouldn't let that get in the way of this deal."

I agree 100 percent. Milledge is the real attraction here and asking the pitching-starved Nationals for pitchers is simply going to make them look elsewhere.  

Maz,

 I'm normally in favor of holding out for the best deal, but I simply don't believe that any team is going to step forward and offer a high-ceiling player like Milledge. Frankly I'm shocked that the Nationals are willing to deal him straight-up for Morgan. I don't think there is an organization more inept than Washington and they seem to be hellbent on injecting some Nyjer karma into their clubhouse. This is a situation where we need to settle for quality over quantity, unlike all of our other deals.

I understand Milledge isn't a sure thing, but we know what we have in Morgan.

I like Nyjer too, but he is what he is.  He's a mediocre hitter, good in the field, who can run but gets caught stealing a bit too often.  Milledge isn't a slugger, but he has some power, which the Pirates sorely lack, and while his makeup is a concern, the upside is too big to ignore.

If you're a team like the Bucs that still has a way to go before contending, and you have the chance to significantly upgrade the overall talent level on the ballclub without adding any payroll, you have to make that trade.

According to the interview with Nyger he gave up on hockey at 19.Then he got serious with baseball.For those who say he is at a peak...probably not yet.He might be 2-3 years behind most players.Physically he could be getting close,but as far as reaching a baseball talent level,he could be a ways away yet.I still say there are other teams that COULD  show interest before the trade deadline and THAT is why the Nats are interested NOW!

I am going with what ever Neal does, he has not made a bad trade yet, in fact he is kind of like a genius at picking up players.

If this deal was brought up before the season, every single person on this blog would make the trade and the nationals would have been laugh at by the whole nation.  This trade has to be made.  

The argument about already have many outfield prospects is more reason to make the trade.  If Lastings doesn't reach his potential, we have tabata and hernandez, but if he does this may be considered the best trade in pirates history.

baywatch  its 1;00 And it always has been one.

Please do this trade. I would also do a Morgan-Milledge trade straight up. If we could get a bucket of used baseballs in addition, that'd be fine. I have no idea why anyone outside of a contender looking for a fifth outfielder would want Nyjer. Milledge still has potential to be better. Nyjer never will be better than he is now. Make the trade.

Bay

GREAT pics. Glad you're enjoying it. I even called Mrs. BABs over from the kitchen to show her and get her feeling all nostalgic.

NuHo/others

Count me in your camp on this trade.  NyjMo is 29 and is what he is. Lastings Milledge is STILL a legit prospect.  Folks, he was ranked on the same level as Andrew McCutchen all through the minors.  Sure, he's had maturity issues, but that's the kind of chance we need to take.  I also think Stammen is nice but overrated.  I'll take any pitcher they have that is: at High A or above and no older than 21.  Or AA or above and 22 or under.  Get this done.  

I think that the biggest problem with assessing a Morgan trade is that he is miscast as an LF.  I try to think of it as 'we have to CFs playing every night'.  You can't look at it as 'do we trade an underpowered, underdeveloped, over-aged LF', but rather 'what do we demand for a freaky fast, mature, charismatic, lead-off hitting CF that still has potential upside.

sorry that was supposed to be one of the best trades not the best

I am in total agreement with NuHo on this one. The move needs to be made because it falls in line with what Huntington has been seemingly trying to do all along: selling high on a player who will bring back prospects for down the road.  Morgan is a slap hitter with zero power, good speed, and a great attitude. Smiles and singles only go so far on a baseball field.

Milledge has a much higher ceiling, and could truly find a confort zone in pittsburgh if he and McCutchen are truly good friends as i've read. He wasn't bad in his one season with the Nationals, and could be much better for the Pirates. This deal itself is a no-brainer, and receiving another decent pitching prospect, or even a low-level power hitter or middle infielder, would just be icing on the cake.

Morning all,

I'm with the group that wants an infielder if we trade Nyjmo, we have enough outfielders, IMO

Way to bring home a win Baywatch, we need another tonight

WWWYP-A mostly washed up Tony Pena=Van Slyke,LaValliere AND Dunne might have been THE BEST trade in history.This trade wouldn't even be close!

Oh, and for whoever said JAL's definition of power was 35+ home runs for 6+ years, that was actually his definition of slugger, not power. And it was only his personal definition. Just saying....

maz

See that why I hate the delay on the blogs.  They never block anything from being posted anyway.

This move HAS to be made.  I love Nyjer but as we have said all along he is not part of the future. As was said before this is similar to the Nate trade of selling high to get prospects.  I would do this trade, along with NuHo straight up, but cant blame NH for trying to get more.  Thats basic negotiation.  They arent gonna offer you their best deal initially.  I just hope he doesn't push to hard and lose Lastings.  There is a reason he was one of the top prospects in baseball.  

I have the eerie feeling that NH is gonna settel for two B prospects instead of LM though.  I hope I'm wrong

I'm going to repeat my post from above since it didn't appear earlier on my screen before Bay's comment about the Renaissance and now it is there.

I asked a good friend and huge baseball fan in Northern Virginia what he thought about the proposed swap and received the following response:

"Anything to get rid of Milledge. Hahahaaaaaaaa. "

Before I received that it was my impression that the Nats feel they are getting rid of excess baggage and are trying to fill a need in return.  Remember, this is THE NATS.  Not saying that we should base our opinion on what the other team thinks in a trade, but it should at least cause some pause in this instance . . .

Good morning all,

I've enjoyed reading the back and forth.  Good points from most.

IMO, you make this deal and make it now.  This is exactly the type of trade NH should be pursuing.  High upside in return for low value.  Milledge was an elite prospect on everyone's card.  He's only 24.  I'd even be willing to let him spend a good part of the summer in Indianapolis if that's what his attitude needs.  Make him prove to the FO that he's ready to accept the reponsibility of being a major league player and don't hand it to him.  At his age I can afford to wait.  Once again, IF they feel it's necessary.

Even if this deal turns out to be a bust, all they would have given up is Nyjer Morgan.  Not to be harsh but he is what he is.  

Just one more opinion.  Beat 'em Bucs.

I personally like the first string on this club and someone is going to have to give me more than a project for one of them, including Morgan.

so many players have had the can't miss and missed, we are in a position where we don't need Millings, so why the rush to get a project?

He is a dump for the Nats, they don't want him, they are the worst team in baseball and he can't make the worst team in baseball.

In conclusion, I want more than him to take him off their hands!

@WWWYP..."If this deal was brought up before the season, every single person on this blog would make the trade..."

You don't know that.  I don't know what I would have done before the season if this came up.  Please stop assuming you know what everyone else would do.  

If NH sees something, here I'm good with that, but I don't like the idea that we're getting someone's excess baggage either.  I'm going to sit back and see what happens...and btw, Nyjer is one of the players on this team I would not be heartbroken about losing.  He has had a better season thus far than I though the would have and I'm glad, but not one of my personal favorites on the team.   :-)

@ THE HARRY ONE

The simple fact that the Nationals want MORGAN is proof that people from afar can see NYJER c an play, my goodness we just got rid of a headcase, I love the fact that we have 2 Rabbitt's at the top of the lineup ,its putting pressure on defense's and giving opposing pitchers headaches, just look at the last few games, Dont we have enough arms, I mean GORZO is ready , seems to be a logjam to me, Hold on to Morgan unless we can get like (MAZ SAID A MIDDLE INFIELDER) GUZMAN perhaps...Then  you make that trade...Follks take a look at the standings...This is not over..YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

CURRENT PIRATE STANDINGS AS OF 8.30 PST

5.0 GB OF BREWERS FOR NL CENTRAL

5.5 GB OF SF GIANTS FOR NL WILDCARD

1 more question, who would replace Morgan , YOUNG?? No way, he cant field, GORKY , he is another Morgan and might not be that, I hope management takes a deep breath and wait for them to ante up something more..

All these people who have thrown Darts at Management need to retract the NADY trade...I loved X MAN, but it seems he is done and if we would have kept him , we would all be hurt right now, chalk another up for MANAGEMENT( BEST IN TEAM SPORTS     :)

Bad swap!  Mileage from Milledge will not be lasting.  Head case comparable to Snell.  Exact opposite of Morgan who players and fans love---always hustling, upbeat, and happy.  Plus being McCutcheon's pal.  Instead of harmony, this guy will create discord.  Bad idea.  Keep Morgan---he's a winner and Andrew likes him!

@MAZ, as many mispells I have , which I dont care about, Its Nyjer not NYGER...:)

Sure trade him. Guy is a speed demon, with McClutch and he both playing, opposing pitchers don't mind. He is in his first full season and doing a A- or better job at the plate and field. Trade him, like McLouth, who we got nothing for. I am sure the lowly Washington Nats have lots of top of the line players we could use for our big turn a round in the year 2054. The guy you trade is La Roche. We know what he can do on this team. He is a HUGE asset to a better team. Maybe we can get some real arms and similar production from another 1b. What the heck, Nady, Bay, McLouth, trade em all.  Go City of Champions and the pirates.  David

I'm still just OK with this as a proposed trade.  I think Nyjer is a couple years away from his peak -- not ten as someone up there exaggerated -- but there's no reason to shop him just now -- so if I was the GM I would want something over value for him -- and I hope they stick to their guns.  

Where does Millidge fit into a McCutcheon, Tabata, Hernandez, outfield?  With Moss on the bench?  Does he have more upside than Gorky or Tabata?  Can he (pardon the cheap shot) play 1st base?  

Talentwise it's probably a good deal -- but it's a minor fix in the outfield and if Morgan has trade value, I would want to use it to patch a bigger hole.  If we don't trade him he has continued value to the club.  In short, OK but not the best.

@ Daryl

Who would replace Morgan? Millidge would, one would think. Dejan says he should be back in early July, and it's late June now. If that fails to work out, use Steve Pearce or Garrett Jones

Daryle

Re:Who would replace Morgan?

Milledge can replace morgan.  He Is already a more proven hitter, his defense is not bad and is definitely not slow.

Dmac

Wow...

Maybe you would not have made the trade but every GM in the league would have done so.

A 24 year old who already has a full, pretty successful season as a starter and made the bigs as a 21 year old or a 28 year who statistics in every category are worse than the younger player.

My general experience has been that trade rumors that go public never actually happen for whatever reason. Remember all the rumors about Tampa Bay that we heard prior to the Jason Bay trade last year? Therefore, I don't put too much stock into the details of the trade. Although, it is interesting that other teams are inquiring about Morgan and the return offers are good enough for the Pirates to entertain. So, is Garrett Jones the candidate to replace Morgan if a major league outfielder is not obtained in the deal?

JHadar,

I think when you're trying to acquire talent within your system, as the Pirates most definately are, then you need to go with the best talent available, regardless of position. Milledge is a very good talent with a very high ceiling. Aquiring him gives them another chip which they can use in other trade negotiations. Not necessarilly trading him, but they can see what they get out of Millidge, McCutchen, Tabata, Gorkys, Pearce, Jones, Grossman, and trade the surplus away for more need positions once they're comfortable with what they have. The Pirates simply aren't good enough to be able to worry about filling in specific holes. Yet.

The people against this trade seemingly don't realize that Milledge is already a better player than Morgan. Think we would miss Morgan's speed? Milledge is faster. Would you be sad to lose his defense? Milledge is better and has a much stronger arm. If you consider that Milledge has a superior bat it becomes a no-brainer. If I could compare Andrew McCutchen to one fellow big leaguer, it would be Lastings Milledge.

People seem to be forgetting that we are talking about the Nationals here. They aren't a smart organization. Anybody we acquire is going to have some warts, if they didn't they wouldn't be traded. There is no possible way we would get a better player in exchange for Morgan. None. This deal has to be made. BUY-LOW SELL-HIGH.

The opinions on this trade seem to separate the men from the boys on this blog. If you truly know baseball and understand how a competitive small-market team is built, you're in favor of it. If you're simply just a Pirate fan, you hate it. Frankly I'm pleasantly surprised to see so many in favor of it.

I don't think that many people are totally against the trade, but most of us would like another player included since we are taking a head case from the Nationals.

I would like the trade, but if the FO can pluck a pitcher too, that would be even better.  Most people are only concerned about Millegde's attitude and mental make-up.  If he were a quiet person that no one knew much about what he was like - then I think everyone would be dancing on the desks (POH - still waiting for the video), but due to the unstable attititude, there is concern.

@WWWYP...Re-read what I wrote.  It's not about the trade in and of itself, you can't presume to speak for everyone on this blog.  I think for myself and maybe would agree in the off season this was a good trade, but you don't know that -- you don't know me at all.

BBB -

While I am one of the male members of the blog, you still should be careful, there are numerous women/girls who you do not want to make angry.  You would not like them when they are angry....

Biker/rider

"So, is Garrett Jones the candidate to replace Morgan if a major league outfielder is not obtained in the deal?"

Lastings Milledge is a major league outfielder.  He'd replace Morgan once healthy.  

I like Morgan, but like McClouth he is a star on our team not so much on other teams. You can't not make a trade based on emotions. I do think that Morgan's value lies in his attitude--not his playing. I think that is why the Nationals really want him--to help spark a very lifeless team.

I say trade--sell high is the name of today's game. I don't millage is the return PBC is looking for--we have outfielders. Its the starting pitching. There needs to be a buffer right now between PBC and Indy.

If Morton or Vasquez don't pan out and any of our remaining 3 get hurt, we have Karstens (and he is ok). But we can't call Snell back up...we can't call Lincoln up (just yet). We have Only Gorzo left that is a viable replacement option. Millage will be trade bait as Jones would make the next flight to Pittsburgh.

When you see a name in trade headlines, cut the emotional ties and look a bit deeper.

Here are Lasting Milledges character issues

1. After his first career homerun he high-fived the fans in right field when he went out to play defense.

2.His performance on a rap song that used controversial language was also an embarrassment to the franchise.

Another thing that I found reading the demotion, Manny Acta( Nationals manager) was a strong supporter of Milledge and refused to comment on his demotion.

Heres the link to the article:

abcnews.go.com/.../WireStory

Seems like his demotion was supposed to be a message to the whole team.

It's refreshing to see a discussion in which both sides make valid points and can defend them with legitimate facts.

I like Nyjer, and although I agree that it's a rare player that shows further development after age 26-28 or so, Nyjer's late commitment to baseball over hockey might put him into that rare group.  

But if we're going to trade a CF-type left fielder like Nyjer, why trade him for another CF-type left fielder like Milledge?  Show me a young guy with a decent glove who has a 25 HR AAA season under his belt and I'd trade Nyjer and throw in Snell.  Of course, that almost describes Garret Jones (he just turned 28).

This might be a plus trade for the Bucs, but it's not necessary.  I'd rather give Jones a shot and trade Nyjer (if at all) for a major league ready middle infielder

Bring back bonds

The opinions on this trade seem to separate the men from the boys on this blog. If you truly know baseball and understand how a competitive small-market team is built, you're in favor of it. If you're simply just a Pirate fan, you hate it. Frankly I'm pleasantly surprised to see so many in favor of it.

___________________________________

Apparently the Pirates are the boys, because they did not agree to the trade, maby they will, but they certainly did not when they could have scooped it right up.

What a dumb statement, "Separate the men for the boys".

@BBB...I would heed Menkrick's advise.  I'm not normally very feisty, but I have my moments.  And I know that my fellow female bloggers can be a little more emphatic.  :-)

(But I do get your point)

Dmac

I understood what you were saying.  The wow was to your harsh reaction.  I then took back my statement and changed it to the gm.  I think that you made the comment you made because of what I have said in the past and if someone else said what I said than you would not have said them.

Menrick,

I'm aware that there are female posters and meant that figuratively not literally.

Wilver,

We may not be good friends yet, but I have the same reaction your friend did when I read the comments of people who don't think we should take advantage of this gift.

;-)

Roxtar

"Show me a young guy with a decent glove who has a 25 HR AAA season under his belt"

If by young you mean 25 or lower there is no such thing because they would have made it to the bigs before have 25 AAA homeruns.

The other thing many of you are failing to consider is that Milledge meets one of Huntington's objectives by having a player capable of playing centerfield kind of range in LF at PNC Park. -  Yet unlike Gorkys, one with some power.

One more thing about Nyjer is that he brings a SWAGGER, By that I mean he breeds confidence,he is a ball of energy, I remember days when Jack Wilson would be so amped and he would be in the dugout and the guy he would be talking to would be so stiff and have no energy, I would always say WOW, Jack needs more of him on the team, I look now in the same dugout and Nyjer and Jack are always talking baseball and its rubbing off on other players..When we made the 9TH inning rally against CLE, Freddy drew a walk and dropped his bat and clapped his hands and I said WOW, its infectous and rubbing off on everybody, things like that go unnoticed..I would wait for them to throw in GUZMAN and then I would make this move..Milledge has struggled for a reason, Nyjer is a lightning rod that does more in the dugout and clubhouse than people give him credit for ...

OK, here is the deal Neal Huntington......

I am taking off for the 2nd leg of my personal triathlon today......First a 2 mile walk with Buddy, Cooper, and Mrs. Hostage at the state park, next a 20 mile bike ride with Mrs. Hostage, and then cutting 1 1/2 acres of grass with a push mower.....

When I get back I expect this deal to be done.

No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Don't make me come down there.

"What a dumb statement, "Separate the men for the boys"."

Again I meant that figuratively not literally. Considering that this insult is coming from someone who once proclaimed "Brian Bixler is better than Jack Wilson right now," I won't take offense to your statement.

@WWWYP...I think I've said the same thing to a few other people here, on the rare occasion they've made similar presumptions.  I apologize if it sounds harsh, I don't mean for it to sound that way...that is the problem with a blog though too.

@Roxtar

I don't think there's many teams who have 25+ home run guys in AAA who would be willing to trade them for an average leadoff man.

Daryle,

I think you have it backwards.

Nyjer is a marginal MLB talent who is just thrilled to be in the major leagues for any length of time. - Thus his great attitude. He knows he is on borrowed time.

Milledge on the other hand is practically a prodigy. Immensely talented, he made it to the majors by age 21, something quite rare these days. He takes being in the majors for granted because he knows that simply getting there is just the first step of what he is capable of doing.

If the Pirate coaching staff is half as good Frank and Neal boast, managing Milledge, correcting his attitude, and ensuring he achieves the production his talent is capable of....

Make this trade.

YEESSSSSSSSSSS!

Daryle,

Apparently you've never seen Milledge play. I like Nyjer, but Lastings Milledge is pretty much the definition of "swagger." Just as confident as Morgan and can actually back it up with the bat.

Wm Wallace -- Understand what you're saying and do not disagree.  I'm OK with the proposal, could be a win/win trade, but am not thorougly convinced that Morgan's value won't be higher in the next year or two, and am still gun shy about guys with attitude problems after what we just went through with Snell.  

I also see that since we have that excess of outfielders in the system, that if Millidge would bomb here there would be someone waiting to take his place -- so the risk is also less than if we were filling a bigger hole.  

The best trades are the ones where the prospects live up to their potential.  I'm waiting to see what happens before I make a final judgment, though.

If Morgan were a stock--like in stock market--all of you would be selling right now. Great thing to have--better thing to cash in!

As for these moves...this is chess--not checkers. The FO has to think multiple moves ahead (like maybe having 3 center fielders might get us a middle infielder). Most of the posters here only think one move at a time. This trade may set up something that takes place on July 31st.

Wow, you guys make very valid points , so much so that I now favor the trade...Not a hard sell at all ,

I know this may sound crazy but do you guys think that Morgan being AMAC'S buddy would actually prevent him from being traded..I'M serious , I know AMAC is not there yet , but maybe he is, Management wouldnt want to upset him or his rhythmm and Keep Morgan on the team..Sound to far fetched??

BBB

Considering that this insult is coming from someone who once proclaimed "Brian Bixler is better than Jack Wilson right now," I won't take offense to your statement.

________________________________

Take offense all you want, I am not going to apologize for what I thought of Bixler, I saw a lot of him, because he did not work out here, doesn't mean he did and does not have talent.

Do you remember Jay Bell?

Lastings Milledge (with two teams)? (Bombed both times)

Now you want to give a front line starter away for a project and your calling it separating the men from the boys when people don't agree with you?

@Mike Bucy..."all of you would be selling right now."

so that WWWYP doesn't think I'm picking on him/her, that's presumptive.  :-)

I'm not saying you're wrong, mind you...it's the verbage.

@daryle

I think management does look at Morgan's role on the team--both with Cutch and all the other members. I think that is why they DIDN'T pull the trigger yet. It will take something more to WOW them. Cutch does interact with Morgan the most, but if you watch bits and pieces of video of him in the dugout, he seems to be a dugout fave too and has others to lean on.

Hadar,

Well if the Pirates are truly holding off on this deal until a better offer comes along, we might have a sense of Nyjer's true value by July 31st. Now that this trade talk is public, if another team likes Nyjer they will have to step up and offer more than the Nationals are with Millidge. If the pirates can coax a better offer out of another team, then i'm all for it. But right now the Nationals are offering a 24 year old toolsy outfielder who hit .261 with 14 homers in his first full year for a 29-year-old singles hitter with a good attitude. That's not a bad return, and another reasonable prospect would make it an absolute slam dunk.

I'd do it right away.  I like Morgan, but he doesn't have anywhere near the upside of Milledge.  You can't guarantee he will work out.  But, it's worth the risk.

Yes, they're just trying to unload him like the Pirates want to unload Snell.  But, this is the type of deal the Pirates need to make and have needed to make for years--a low risk, high return (maybe) deal.

Washington needs someone who can play a true CF very badly and would like to upgrade their defense, especially with such awful pitching.  Milledge has been a headache to them.  But, after spending some time back in the minors, he might have a fire lit under him when he gets back to the majors, which is hard for him to do in Washington since they have Dunn, Willingham, Kearns, and Dukes who really are corner outfielders.  

The Pirates need to look around the league for the Lastings Milledge-type players, the guys who have the talent, but haven't quite made it for whatever reason.  By year's end, Morgan's numbers might deteriorate to the point that he doesn't have any value at all.  If he winds up around .260 with no power, people won't view him as a possible starter.

Good point DMAC...but I am used to offending other people. ;-}

anyone going to the Cubs series? Heading out Monday morning from Indiana to catch the series (then maybe Indy next week to see Ryan???!!!)

When in comes down to it, Morgan is a 4th or 5th outfielder for a contending team.  Milledge isn't a sure thing due to the questions about attitude, but he has the talent to be a significant contributing starter for a contending team.  The difference in talent is simply too great not to make this trade.

I love these comments that "if you agree with me you know baseball, if you disagree you are an idiot."  Doesn't add much to the discussion IMO.  

NuHo--I know this is a no brainer for you.  If they don't do the trade, they don't know what they are doing.  If they do and it is a bust, then it is the coachng/FO fault for not getting enough out of Milledge and I'm guessing it has something to do with having a payroll 40% below the league average.  No downside for you, my friend.  ;-)

Daryle--the mispelling of Nyjer on here has always driven me crazy and I have  pointed it out before, but before you get too animated about it, you also have spelled Nyjer "Nyger" in the past.  Just saying.

I pays to see Morgan play LF at PNC.  I stay home if Bay's out there.  I wrote Dejan before Bay was traded that Boston was where he belonged because it's tailored for Jason's defensive shortcomings.  Those 3-hoppers to 3rd from mid-left were embarrassing and those gap shots to left-center were just that.  He even found his bat up there.  Good for Boston---I like Nyjer and his animation and "style".  In hindsight, would do that one every day!

I'm not weighing in on this potential trade one way or the other.  But what's suprising me is how people are putting things out there today.  Several people who are in favor of this trade are ranging from an attitude of 'This should have been done already' (Some of the same people complained that the McLouth trade was done too quickly.  That involved players we'd been scouting since last July.  This has been 8 days.)  To 'sperating men from the boys' If people read so-and-so's blog there would be less foolish opinions here' and the gerneral 'if you don't agree with this you don't know anything about baseball.'  Whether I agree with the potential trade or not, that attitude is a load of crap, it's condescending and arrogant.  Show some respect for others' opinions.

Ok.  Here is my view on the TRADE.  Why even tell DK on the trade?  If Mike Rizzo called me on the phone, I'd wouldn't hang up until Lastings was on the plane here.  Lastings is basically Xavier Nady with speed.  He can't play Center Field, but could be a good LF.  Is he a little injury prone?  Yes.  

Now, Lastings is a little flamboyant and maybe a little overly excited.  The Mets, the great clubhouse they had, hated him (while they have died like dogs in September for the last 2 years).  Now, the Nationals jerked him around and he's not a CF, but they put him out there anyway.  Then they sat him while they play Josh Whittingham.

Neal make the deal and I'll drive down to DC, pick up Lastings and drive 4 hours myself.

Diehard-  I'm in favor of the trade.  Hope I didn't insult anyone.

BTW...when it comes to headcases...I think Milton Bradley is the pure definition of that.

WSB-

My buddy and I are coming up from DC on Monday. We can bring Lastings with us.

Stan - Stated your opnion, did it civily and well put without aiming at other posters.  That's well said.

I wouldn't go so far as picking him up, but I think IF this was going to happen there needs to be another player from the Nats included.  If it's the Nats pursuing the Pirates, that should put us in position to ask for more than Milledge straight up.  It's possible that could be a good trade, but adding another player could make it better.

The Pirates are trying to acquire as many high upside players as they can in the hope that a few will reach their potential.  Milledge may or may not be one of them.

Milledge is an adequate corner OF who was forced to play CF because the Nats assembled an OF full of the same type guy (Willingham and Dunn have no business being in the OF, and Kearns has limited range).

I do not hold it against him that he is an adventure in CF (and he is), because that is not where he will play.

I would much prefer a middle infielder in return, but the Nats are the only team with a real need for Nyjer - and they are not offering one.