Morning links: There goes Snell?

Bay-In your travels you might see Ian.Give him a wave,but be careful...if he waves back and gets in an accident he will say it's YOUR fault and sue.Have a safe trip man.Waiting on the pics Mr Bay ..sir.

I'm somewhat uncomfortable with something in the Snell story. Dejan...unless it was worded incorrectly...made it sound as if Ian made the case for representing PR in the WBC by claiming that his wife's father raised him. Unless they were dating from the time they were extremely young...that sounds a lot like false pretenses. The original story that I thought I had heard was that HIS natural father was Puerto Rican...and that even though he was born and raised in Delaware...that was good enough.

In any case...it appears that Ian has been significantly affected by opinions of those outside of baseball...such as media and fans. I'm not sure what it will take to turn that around. It's going to be an interesting few months. I think everyone would like to see Ian succeed in Pittsburgh because the fans know that he has talent. Hopefully...whatever demons he is battling can be conquered.

Nice hotel in Cincy here, Maz. They got word about the Baywatch Gig, and thus are serving Baygles in the morning.

Mr Kerrigan? Geez Joe talk about polar opposites.I'll bet Ian NEVER gave him that kind of respect.

DK-If Laura adds a comment better tell her to pick up an avatar.JAL is gone for a few days,but it might save her from the gray (wo)men karma theory.  ;-)Just trying to help out.

Bay-Remember that old Chevy commercial.."see the USA in a ChevroBay?"Ian wouldn't be staying in the same hotel would he?Seeing as he's on his way to Ian Deanopolis.

I don't think this team plays so bad when we sometimes start 3 or even 4 rookies in a game.(Young Morton Diaz Jaramillo AMac and now Vasquez).Not bad at all!

Could the events of the last 24 hours for the Pirates have been any better?

-Snell finally is gone from the rotation. Good riddance. I heard a few audio clips of him today. If it was me, I'd just release him and swallow the loss financially. This guy's a total loser.

-What a game last night by Cutch. Unless he falls off the face of the earth, this guy's gonna be NL Rookie of the year by the time this season's over.

-Even J.R. showed he has a pair last night. Good to see him stick up for his team a little more lately.

There's still a long, hard road ahead but he future is promising and we are starting to see more of it come to fruition.

Hard to believe we're 3rd in team batting.9 th in pitching.2nd in fielding.Oh yeah this team is terrible!  ;-)Plus we have Jackson,Young,Cutch,Diaz,Jaramillo,Chavez,Meek,Morton,V Vaquez,Pearce as rookies.What other teams are doing this well with 10 rookies on their 25 man roster.One would have to think MOST will get better as well.

lest ye forget andy laroche, Moss, Karstens, ohlendorf,have very little experience also.  Yet we are what 6 games out.

Ian Snell has been so bad this season and last year as well. Sending him down to AAA is pretty justified with given the performances he has turned in. But just the same, I do feel a little badly for him. His problems do seem to be mental and that's really tough. As a Pirates fan, I want him to succeed and get better. The team is much better when Ian Snell is alright. He is 27, a relatively young guy. So hopefully for the teams sake and for Ian's, he will be able to clear his head and get mentally right. Maybe next year at this point we'll be talking about his 8-3 record and his 3.10 ERA. We can hope.

The Snell audio clip is priceless.  What a head case!  

I really hope Ian figures out that baseball is just a game.  The tools are all there.  Young Mr McCutchen could teach him alot about enjoying himself and trusting his talent.  Try some of those deep breaths Andrew takes between pitches.

@DK

Who drafts the poll questions? The poll choices on Snell "leave him [in Indy]," "trade him, " or "cut him" don't  offer  an option of letting work him out his issues and working his way back to Pittsburgh someday. I still think he is salvagable but the poll appears to have written him off.

What Snell needs to be Swell is eight weeks of marine boot camp

Bucs fan 54,, i think most of the questions in the poll are tunnell visioned for outcome.

I think it clear that we have upgraded our team over last year.

Mr. Morgan is a far superior fielder than Jason, just the other night there were two balls hit towards the line that mr. Morgan was in front of and held the runner to a single--every time that is a double agaiinst jason.

I called it the day of the trade, we have an upgrade in center,nate is a nice guy but all concede since the trade we have a better player in center.

I even think Moss is Boss over whats his name on the DL in NY.  Better arm more coverage area.

Andy has been sweet as candy

Who was it that cried and cried about joey bats? ha ha ha!

hands down that trade is one on our side of the who snookered the other guy.

I must say we all knew well most of knew Bats was rats, big upgrade with that trade.

This outfield is superior to last years outfield with leather on their hands.  Their offensive production should also rise to the top.

Good morning inmates near and far.  Nice to wake up to good news, a win, and Snell is gone; great...

Snell wasn't swell, you didn't answer the bell, your pitching and attitude put us in a living hell, will you be back, only time will tell.

Nice work on the notebook Ms. Keeley.

I particuarly appreciated DK's mention of the 3 fans not interfering with Morgan's catch.

Now let's get 2 of 3 from KC.

WEll Well Well, certain of us for some time have predicted that the FO would not eat Snells major league contract having him sent down,  Wrong.

Another sign of the times they are a changin!

I know lots of us wanted to see this happen sooner, me last year.

Best of luck to you young man.

Good work Bay, I have made that drive quite a few times and that is more miles than I wish to cover in a day.  Those last miles between bowling green and Cincy make it over the top, never made it past louie ville.

             HEAR YE HEAR YE HEAR YE

         PRE BAY GAME DAY GATHERING

          VINCENTS PIZZA OF GREENTREE

                  333 MANSFIELD AVE.

                       412-921-8811

             www.vincentsgreentree.com

                       June 27th.  1:00 P M

                     Please RSVP by a post

                           or email me at

                       tjfran@comcast.net

They need to know how many servers to bring in for the

upstairs  so a response sure would make them happy

Before Mr. Morgan trademarks his name may I suggest he reverse the words.

Clutch mcCutch has an easier roll to it.

Say it to yourselves a number of times both ways, which sounds better and which is easier to say.

I am sticking with put the clutch in gear.

Mr. Snell ...(others have said it before, and it applies here) ...good tools, NO toolbox.

Time to turn the page.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  PROSPECT WATCH  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Today’s Topic: OUTFIELDERS (stats thru 6/25/09)

Garrett Jones– RF – Indy   (free agent signing)

12 HR 46 RBI  .310  ** 68Games 261 ABs, 42R, 81H, 40K, 16 BB, 14 SB

Jeff Salazar– LF – Indy   (free agent signing)

9 HR 33 RBI  .244  ** 72Games 270 ABs,  36R, 66H, 52K, 23 BB, 15 SB

Jose Tabata– CF – Altoona (part of X.Nady trade)

1 HR 12 RBI  .258  **  27 Games 97 ABs,  16 R, 25 H, 11K, 10 BB, 4 SB

Gorkys Hernandez – OF – Altoona (part of McLouth trade)

0 HR 21 RBI  .298  **  70 Games 275 ABs,  41 R, 82 H, 68K, 19 BB, 11 SB

Jason Delaney – LF – Altoona (12th Round, 2005 Draft)

4 HR  35 RBI  .244  **  64Games  217 ABs,  25R, 53 H, 44 K, 29 BB, 0 SB

Miles Durham – OF – Lynchburg & Altoona (22nd Round, 2006 Draft)

7 HR 39 RBI .296 ** 65 Games 247 ABs, 39 R, 73 H, 55 K, 17 BB, 8 SB

Robbie Grossman – CF – West Virginia  (6th Round, 2008 Draft)

2 HR  26RBI  .296  **  61Games  240 ABs,  47R, 71 H, 84 K, 33 BB, 22 SB

Quincy Latimore – OF – West Virginia (4th Round, 2007 Draft)

4 HR  29 RBI  .248  **  59 Games  230ABs,  31R, 57 H, 56 K, 12 BB,  2 SB

Starling Marte – OF – West Virginia (Free agent from Domican Republic)

Dave Rubinstein – CF – State College (11th Round, 2008 Draft)

Wes Freeman – OF – GCL Pirates (16th Round, 2008 Draft)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Finally ACCOUNTABILITY has come to Ian Snell. Him being sent to AAA sends another solid message that continued bad performance will not be shrugged off regardless of ones salary. NH and the FO has always stated that everyone will be accountable and this case shows to me that they meant every word. I honestly think that Ian needs a sports psychologist a lot more than he needs a pitching coach. Hopefully he gets the help he so desperately needs.....

Something fishy about the idea that Ian requested a demotion.  If he demanded a trade, I'd believe it, but nobody insists that he be permitted to enjoy the 9 hour bus ride to Buffalo, or 3 fun-filled nights in the Gwinnett Days Inn.

There's got to be a lot we haven't learned about the situation.  I suspect the FO wants to rehabilitate his trade value, if possible, while not having his negativity infect a very young major league team.  It's a teaching moment for the 10 rookies on the 25 man roster.  The Indianapolis-Pittsburgh route runs both ways.....

from our east-end-of london wing of the asylum:

good morning from the other side of the pond. even my yinzer dictionary is of little helpp here.

I had to find a way to post to say while I've been gone a week, it looked like the floor fell out of the bucs with a bit , then they did some necessary things, including some signings and snell... and good gawd, MCCLUTCH! I am getting a jersey. I never thought I would do that at my advanced age, but I'm getting a McClutch jersey.

poor snell, those who have walked the halls of the asylum as I have for years saw nothing but a monster eater heater, but this boy has some deamons to exorcise as the heart working the arm has gotten lost. the pressure in the burgh is not NYC media market pressure, not jackie robinson pressure, certainly not even the pressure of realization of lack of ability- it is all in the makings of his own hell. I wish him nothing but success in winning his own personal battle. I loved seeing his arm in 07 and the glimpses he has shown since. perhaps he will. I wish you peace ian, and a speedy return of the speedy pitch-inside.

Joey, Roxstar, PI,  

One more time the FO is sticking with the plan.  Ian may have been given more chances than some wanted him to have but he got his chance for now.

Lets hope this change of senery changes things.  

No disrespect intended but who the heck is Laura Keeley and why is she writing the Pirate Notebook today instead of DK or Mr. Finder?

Please don't tell me Huntington traded Finder for a couple of prospects???

Wait, wait, wait......

How can I even begin to contemplate starting my day without JAL's three standard morning posts??

Everything is off kilter.....I am walking into walls, how can this be happening?

;-)

Just looking at the Indy box score and I find it interesting that for a club that claims it is building a championship caliber club through the draft and farm system that the Indy lineup was so filled with journeymen minor league veterans yesterday instead of legitimate up and coming prospects ....

28 yr old Snell in LF

29 yr old Salazar in CF

28 yr old Jones in RF

29 yr old Kratz catching

33 yr old Myrow at 1B

27 yr old Gimenez at 3B

Shelby Ford was the only real prospect in the starting lineup other than Luis Cruz if you consider him a prospect which I don't. And Ford is hitting .166.

If Coonelly and Huntington are building a championship club through the farm system, it appears it is going to take quite some time. Maybe it is a 10 year plan this time since the past couple of 5 year plans didn't work out?

@DK and Laura Keeley to be unofficially know known  as LK--<<Notebook>

LK Welcome to the Asylum this morning. Very nice work on the Notebook.

DK 2 things...You have a protege...WATCH OUT! I think she wants your job. :)

I suppose the good news is that when you look at the Altoona box score, you do see 4 legit prospects in that lineup....

Friday at SS

Tabata in RF

Hernandez in CF

Alvarez at 3B

Is that really enough though?

Again, it looks like this is going to take quite some time and perhaps won't happen during the Alvarez era because I don't know if they have enough around him even?

Billy so if you met up with DK and LK for lunch it would be....

BK + DK + LK for lunch?

@NH--<<Laura Keeley>>

Good morning Mr. Hostage,

C'mon now ;-) it is Friday, The PBC beat the HAPLESS Indians 2 of 3, Andrew is for REAL. The Indians Pen SUCKS beyond all realms of reality, Ollie pitched well enough to keep us in the game against a very good Lee last night. JR got TOSSED!!!!

I think you can cut Ms. Keeley some slack today and offer her a proper welcome to the Asylum.  ;-).

Hey DK....you know what would be an interesting long term project for you to develop and publish some time this season?

Take a look at the Pirate minor league system and attempt to identify the legitimate major league prospects and then project potential lineups out into 2001, 2012, 2013......with the McCutchen's, Tabata's, Hernandez's, Alvarez's, Lincolns, etc.....and attach the project lineup's to a time line during those players controllable contract years and determine the strength of the lineup, weaknesses (Power?), gaps at certain positions, etc?

Since Coonelly and Huntington will not commit themselves to a year except 2015, it would be interesting to see it all layed out and project when this town could potentially see a competitive club and what additional talent may be needed to make it happen.

Sounds like that would be a fun project.

@NH--<<Lunch>>

More like dk + LK + bk...

A ROSE between 2 thorns.... :)

DK,

Speaking of storylines like the one I just described, of course I would always be interested in two additional topics....

1. 2009 draft analysis come August 18th or 19th. - How many picks did the Pirates sign overall and how does that compare across MLB? How much money did the Pirates spend on the draft and how does that compare across all of MLB?

2. I'm always interested in the money story. - Sort of like the one you did several years ago. "The Money is there, but where is it going?" - But a 2009 update.

DK - all I want for my combined birthday and Christmas gifts is those three stories.

Thanks!

Ahhh.

Very smooth BK. Very smooth.

Well played Sir. Well played.

@ ANYONE better than me regarding Stats (Where is JAL in an emergency???)---<<Andrew>>

Can someone figure out the percentage of runs that Andrew has been involved in since arriving here 20 games ago. My gut says it is very high.

$$$$$  BODY WATCH – ATTENDANCE AT MLB PARKS $$$$$

Thru 6/25/09

30. PIRATES ….. 32 dates ** 578,024 total  **  18,063 avg.

29. Florida……… 39 dates ** 711,102 total  **  18,233 avg.

28. Oakland……. 34 dates ** 625,972 total  **  18,410 avg.

27. Cleveland….. 35 dates ** 777,853 total  **  22,224 avg.

26. Baltimore… 38 dates ** 853,316 total  **   22,455 avg.

1. NY Yanks … 35 dates ** 1,578,148 total   **   45,089 avg.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

BK,

As you wish.....

Welcome LK.

Happy Friday and welcome to the Bob Nutting Fan Club.

;-)

" I find it interesting that for a club that claims it is building a championship caliber club through the draft and farm system that the Indy lineup was so filled with journeymen minor league veterans yesterday instead of legitimate up and coming prospects."

Feel free to thank Mr. Littlefield for that.  Frank and Neal's first draft is one year old.  You expect Alvarez and others from that draft to be in Triple A already?  Or would you rather they acquire Triple A players by trading major leaguers?

I think June 25 could very well be the date that sparks the team in the right direction. The walk-off hit from Clutch, the emotion from JR, and the demotion of the poison called Snell (hope he stays in AAA for the season), I think there could be something good brewing here.

Management seems to talk in great lengths about the potential of Vasquez and Morton. If that "potential" can be reached now as opposed to later, we might very well be in for an interesting September. Still a few "ifs", but still quite possible

21, you are slipping you forgot free agency

@NH--<<LK Welcome>>

You are just a curmudgeon. Have a great weekend, my friend. ;-)

The more I hear Ian Snell talk, the more he reminds me of Kordell Stewart.  Nothing was ever Kordell's fault.  When the Steelers lost, Kordell always claimed it was a team game and that this does not all fall on Kordell Stewart.  Snell's interview on FSN sounded the same way.  I can't hit the ball and catch the ball?  It begged the question, "How can you expect your fielders to be on their toes and make plays for you when you are putting them to sleep wth 50 pitch innings?"

@ Jersey Joe...Morgan over Bay?  Maybe truly from a defensive perspective, but Bay's offense far overshadows any runs that Morgan might be saving defensively.  And with Morgan so far off the line, I'm not sure how many runs he really is saving.

"21, you are slipping you forgot free agency"

JJ,

You want to build a minor league system via free agency?

@Steph--<<Spark>>

Let's not get to far ahead of ourselves just yet. While I sincerely appreciate the entire game last night, getting the WIn and 2 of 3....Remember they beat arguably the worst team in BB. They did not beat a contender or someone with even a better record. They beat a team with a bullpen that could not throw a strike if the plate was the size of a Barn Door. Just trying to keep things in perspective.

"Can someone figure out the percentage of runs that Andrew has been involved in since arriving here 20 games ago. My gut says it is very high"

This is a great observation and one I share.

Personally I see McCutchen as a prototypical speed merchant leadoff / A+ CF defender type of guy, but that said his impact, even as a leadoff guy, has been profound.

On one hand I think the idea that this rookie speedy leadoff centerfielder guy is fast becoming the star of the club is a sad commentary on the overall state of the club, but that should not take away from the fact that so far he is having a very profound impact, especially for just being a leadoff guy vs. a middle of the order thumper.

Quite a pleasant outcome so far.....  

no more than the other options other than from the AA team

BK,

You have a great weekend too buddy.

;-)

Retire#21,

I like Ian Snell and I wish he would grow up and stop pointing fingers and just look in the mirror, but in defense of Kordell, I don't recall Kordell ever being anywhere near as bad as Ian Snell when it came to accepting accountabilty.

IMO Kordell Steward was a class act and the way this town treated him was absolutely disgraceful and definitely not one of our shining moments.

Your criticism of Snell is well justified and I'm fine with that, but I think bringing Kordell into the story is completely inaccurate.

KIDD! I could throw a rock at you!

Hoss, are you down for the first annual Fish Sammich in Bloomfield Gig on Tuesday??

My little Mrs. Bay's Laptop Wifi Setup has been good from over here in downtown Mason, Ohio ... except I couldn't pull up highlights from the game. I really wanted to see the victory celebration with Cutch ...

OK, off to scare up some continental breffer and I'm outta here ... "My kind of town ... Da Burgh is ... My Kind of town .. Da Burgh is. My kind of razzamatazz, and it has, it has all that Maz and ... "

@ Billy...

I agree it was (only) the Indians, however it's more about how we won, than who we beat.

The team needed a spark, and got multiple ones in the same day. From the McLouth trade, and the rough series in Colorado, there have been a lot of long faces in the dressing room. With Cutch's play, and a couple of fine wins, hopefully  some of that negativity that has lingered in the last month will disappear for good.

Let's go 5-2 or 6-1 for the rest of the homestand and let's make things interesting in the Central.

Hey Baywatch,

I hope you are enjoying your trip.

I'm not sure yet if I will be in town on Tuesday. - There is a chance I may have to be in Cleveland for a meeting. - I'm waiting for confirmation.

@Mr. and Mrs. Bay--<<Welcome to the Burgh!!!!>>

@Steph--<<5-2/6-1>>

Absolutely I agree. Make hay when you are able!

What happenend to everyone???

@Nutting:

I was not a Kordell basher when he was here, and I certainly didn't condone the beer dunking nor the horrid rumors. These are all just silly games played by overpaid men and I certainly don't hate any of the participants, for I've never met them.   But I disagree entirely with your statement that Kordell the man was accountable for his record, nor that he was a class act.   Stewart threw a temper tantrum on the sidelines in Tampa and pointed at Cowher, claiming to Cowher, "You owe me."  If you research some Kordell quotes you will see a consistent theme that fits nicely with Snell.  When the Steelers lost, Kordell's main quotes generally centered around the fact that it was not his fault, football is a team game.

You and I will have to agree to disagree about Kordell, but I find he and Snell to be similar in their inability to take responsibility for a poor performance.

Retire#21,

Kordell, like anyone, made mistakes, but he was a far better person and player than this town gave him credit for.

Again, I don't see him anywhere near the level of Snell when it came to shirking responsibility.

You're right, let's just agree to disagree.

BK,

Maybe I scared them all away?

@NH--<<Scared them off>>

Thanks for Nuttin(g)...

Good morning inmates.  Did anyone else see Teke's take on the Snell situation on FSN last night?  It was very interesting.  Teke chooses his words carefully and is always politically savy.  That's why I was shocked when he pointedly said that the idea that it was Snell's decision to send himself down to AAA was patently absurd.

Could anyone make out what JR was yelling at the ump?  I was proud of his moxy.  I know... it's about time... but I was proud none the less.

Personal sidenote:  So I live in Iowa and have to live my Pittsburgh dream through my TV... two small TV's.  We're redecorating the living room and it will take months, so we gutted it... no TV.  The TV in the bedroom is tiny.  Well, yesterday I purchased a 50" Plasma for the bedroom so I can watch the Bucs.  When we're finished with the living room we'll get a 58" Plasma.  Hopefully I'll have the 50" by Monday!

BK,

You know what I should do?

Just to switch things up, I should reverse field 180 degrees, change my name to "Nuttingisthebest" or something along those lines and became as an obnoxious supporter of Bob and the front office as I have been as an antagonist.

That would really blow some folks minds.

TripleG,

Congrats on the new TV's!

Sounds like you are going to be watching the Bucs in spectacular style coming up here soon.

Good morning inmates!

I'm traveling into PBurgh myself today...will see some of you Sat and Sun.  I'm visiting my father...no internet access, lucky to have running water...so unless i find a Panera Bread, I'll be Asylum-less until Mon night or Tues.

p.s.  I want a summer intern too.  How do i get one?

Thanks NH!  It sounds silly, but it's a big deal.  I work hard and and at the end of the day the real joy in my life is the Pittsburgh Pirates.  I'll retire to the burgh but probably will not be able to move there beforehand.  So TV is how I keep my dream alive.  

I'm looking forward to watching that DirecTV Baseball Mix channel with 8 games on the screen.  Each game will be the size of my prior TV.

I thought it was weird when I read it in the Spring and I still think it is weird when I read it again this morning: Snell wanted to play for Puerto Rico during the WBC because his father-in-law is from there.  

Everyone seems to think Ian is poison in the clubhouse. I wonder what his teammates really think of him. It could be that he is well liked by them.  We haven't heard much from any of them yet.  Maybe after he is officially away from the team some of them will speak up.

@NH--<<Nuttingsthe best>>

The Earth would spin off its axis....

@ Hostage/Nuttingsthebest:I can see it now! Your avatar could be a photoshop pic of Nutting with a wreath of flowers around it or standing in the midst of Mother Theresa, Gandhi and the Dalai Lama.

On Bay vs Morgan: I'll take Bay any day of the week. He fields ok, hits for average with power - overall a much better package.

On McCutchen: Absolutely he is an upgrade over He-Who-Was-Traded. However, He-Who-Was-Traded did not have to be traded to make room. He could have been moved to RF, Moss to Left and Nyjer could fulfill his destiny and become a late inning defensive replacement specialist person. Then the outfield AND the bench would be better than it was.

On Snell: As Bugs Bunny would say: "What a maroon!" Million-dollar talent with a 50 cent head. With a father-in-law passing along the negative comments at a steady rate, Ian needs to get rid of his influence more than he needs a psychologist although it would be a good thing to take advantage of the psychologist at this point.

Jose

Hire one

T-Crack: I seem to remember something from DK saying that Snell is a nice guy, or well liked, or something like that.  I think the point of DK's comment or story was that Snell is not the poisonous type no matter how bad his PR sense is or what stupid things he's said at times.

My memory is vague - old age - anyone else remember this and have a clearer recollection of DK's comments?

AMac has driven in 18 runs and scored 14 in 20 games.Not bad!He accounted for over 1.3 p/game.He also has 10 extra base hits and 3 SBs.

In defense of Snell, one thing he said that I can imagine impacts a lot of the Pirate players, Snell more than others, is the how negative the environment must be.

Just imagine what it must be like to be a Pirate player.....

The club hasn't won in 16 years and they hear that over and over and over....

You have an owner and front office that claim that they are changing the culture and intend to hold players accountable, they state they expect their club with a paltry $50M payroll to improve and win this season, then they trade away one of their best players in June......Huntington even said yesterday that he and the instability of the club in how they've had three different pitching coaches in three seasons is partly to blame.....

Clearly all this stuff got to Ian more so at this point than other players but with all that said I can't imagine that it is very pleasant or rewarding to be a Pirate player these days......

@ TripleG: If all it takes is a decent TV to keep you happy, then why not? Congrats!

More on Snell: I don't think this is a case of the PBC "eating" a contract. Snell's performance has forced them to demote him being it is (literally) the last option they have with him. They can't trade him. I mean really, if you were a GM for any other team, what would you give up to have a guy who may be designated for reassignment in the near future who also has the balance of a $3 million contract this season and over $4 million next?

If you are the PBC, why would you want to convert him to short relief when he is dragging the contract around with him that he has?

In short, this is not in any way proof that the PBC is not budget-driven or to use a term from my childhood, a bunch of cheapskates. The PBC sent Snell to Indy until they can figure out what to do with him next.

Jose

off now.  Good weekend to all.

Jose,

I just think the Pirate environment over the past six years just beats and wears players down.

I don't think Kendall and Giles were negative a-holes when they arrived but they sure became that way by the time they left.

I think Snell may have well succumbed to the Nutting environment as did Kendall, Giles, and others. - It just wore him down.

I don't think professional athletes begin their careers that way.....

@ BillyKidd

In response to your question about the percentage of runs that McCutchen has been involved in, I calculate it as 32.6%

In the 20 games since he's been up, the Pirates have scored 95 runs.  Cutch has scored 14 runs and has 18 RBI for a total of 32 runs he's had a hand in, but I am subtracting one since he has one HR and shouldn't get credit for both the run and the RBI.  

Jose, Jason has no arm, none, not as good as Mr. Morgans, even.

Jason can not carry Morgans spikes.  jason is average with the glove and well below average with the arm.

Do not forget this is his first full year in the outfield and he is better than jason already.

The idea behind a trade is what you get for the guy and how you replace his position.

I am not into fantasy too much so moving a traded player to another position is beyond my immagination.

But, since you bring the trade up  now after one very short appearance and one a little longer, it looks like the pepper shaker alone might turn out to make it an even trade.

The way nate has played this year I still would not bump Morgan or moss for a couple of home runs.

@Jose - ... now of course a winning team to go along with that new TV... I can dream, can't I?

I was a player in that clubhouse and after each of Ian's starts we had to hear how it was the fault of the umpire, groundscrew, the other team was stealing signs, my manager had the wrong game plan, I've had too many pitching coaches,  I didn't really pitch too bad, my catcher screwed it up.....   Then I might be a bit negative towards Ian too.   His performance has nothing to do with the team's payroll or how many years in a row  the team has lost.

Different topic that I would love DK's and all the inmates input on today .......

Why is it that Pirate pitchers seem to lose velocity after just a season or two with the club? - Is it a strategy to reduce velocity to improve location? Is it a fundamental flaw in the systems player development, coaching and conditioning processes?

When Capps first arrived, he could throw 95, 96 MPH. - Now he is 92 MPH.

Snell use to hit 95, 96 routinely and occasionally 97. - Now he too is in the 92 MPH range.

Ohlendorf came here with the reputation of having a 95 MPH fastball, he hasn't hit it yet.

Gorzy threw 95 occasionally when he first arrived, now down at 91 MPH.

Grabow use to hit 95 MPH but no longer.

Hansen was supposed to have wicked fast stuff, 97 MPH when he arrived. He didn't hit that all spring.

What the heck happens to the heat of Pirate pitchers?

This is very perplexing to me and I have not earthly explanation as to why and would appreciate any and all insight as to potential reasons. - It seems to effect them all across the board.

Thoughts?

DK?

Anyone?

I'm thinking Morton (the throw in as he has been called here)will make us happy.Also Gorkys is making the adjustment to a new organization and is at .298 at Altoona.No word yet on when Bay signing a 15 mil+ contract.Btw Nate is still under .260.No one mentions the Nadt trade anymore...wonder why?

Of course Dad & I were at Tuesday's game...why can't we see a game like Wed or Thurs?  Sigh....

Well I am in for a half day today then mad busy, so everyone have a great time tomorrow and The Man and I will see you on Sunday!

@ Triple G: Of course you can! In the meantime you can enjoy about a zillion things from sports to movies on DVD...all in high def!

@ JJ: Fantasy has little to do with it, unless you consider any speculation about something that has not happened yet (as in predictions) to be anything but fantasy as well.

I was for moving McLouth to right before we traded him and as you have pointed out, trades for prospects take a long time to evaluate. Therefore, hanging the moniker of future stardom on Morton based on seeing him pitch 8 or 9 innings seems a bit hasty. I am sure he had a good 8 or 9 in the past with Atlanta, but he also had stretches where he was mediocre.

Actually in thinking about it, aren't we all engaged in a fantasy here by speculating about potential and past moves; plays on the field, etc?

Jose

@Hostage: There was a quote somewhere in today's coverage that referenced velocity and lack thereof. I am paraphrasing, but it went along the lines (referring specifically to Ohlendorf) that developing the off-speed stuff could dampen the speed of the fastball.

I have never heard that before, but that is not to say it is not true. Perhaps for some pitchers there is a change in the delivery that allows them to more effectively throw off-speed pitches but takes a couple mph off the fastball.

I am just fantasizing there with that though...

Jose

Morning mates, interesting discussions today as per usual.

Re- PBC culture, NuHo, Jose excellent points - its got to wear on you, out of things by June, this division is up for grabs, so far anyways, high 80's in wins might win the thing?  I hate to beat a dead horse, but from the players perspective, I can see how they are not pleased with the FO.  With more tearing down of the ML club on the horizon.

Re - JR's fire last night, a couple of things, one is why was Morgan bunting?  He's a lefty McCutch was on 2nd, a grounder to the right side gets him to third, I know we don't have that much power, but I hate giving up an out, especially when Lee was mowing us down pretty much at that time.  But the thing that struck me with JR is, man, there have been many/several other calls that were much more obviously missed by the umpires in the past with him not even leaving the dugout, maybe JRs had enough too?

Re - Snell - There must be more to the story, NH was quoted a few days ago saying Ian had one more start Sunday, something must have happened, or else NH's evil twin Skippy took over.  After all, you can always take to the bank anything the FO says (tongue firmly planted in right cheek....)

@ maz: I was never into Nady. I thought last season with the Bucs was a fluke. His track record was (and is) someone with terrific talent that spends a lot of time on the DL. That is why I was not critical of the trade as I saw him as being just one play away from an extended turn on the DL.

You will recall the bit with the hamstrings while he was here, even.

Jose

Well gang, it's been fun, but I have some things to tend to. I'll try to pop back in later...

Jose

Jose,  I guess I do think it speculating trades is fantasy.  I think math models that are proven are not, so non scientific predictions are also fantasy.

I have repeatedly stayed out of prospect lurking and trades until they happen thoughts.

I am happy watching the guys out on the field.  

When JHADAR was at the game the Pirate rep whp came out to talk to im said that the pepper shaker has consistent holes.

he said they beleive as well as most scouts believe that his mechanical adjustments have cleared up his control issues, we shall see.

I am not hanging anything, my point is that if he is just as good as he has shown, no better, he is worth the trade even up.

I would have to think about adding past moves to the fantasy list because they are reality.

@Bishop--<32.6%>

Thank you.

Hi, all.  Have a good trip today, Bay.  Looking forward to your visit.

Went to the game last night - great experience.  Ohlie holding us in there vs. Lee.  Cutch coming through again and again.  Saw Arriba and son.  I'll bet they enjoyed it, as well.

I've been thinking about Ian a bit since yesterday.  His last two interviews were disastrous and did much to exacerbate his situation.  Honestly, I think this is part of his problem - he may not speak his thoughts well.  I'll bet he tried to get some credit for thinking he needed to sort himself out at Indy, but the way he described it just did more damage.  Same with his comments about Kerrigan the other day.  I've gone from being angry at his performance to thinking he has some serious things to work out.

Pirata, I was at the game Tuesday, also.  I know what you're talking about.  Another game tonight.  Many games in a row right now.  Don't know how it happened, but I'm not complaining.

GGG, I lost my TV service in NYC a few yrs ago b/c Direct TV took the satellites off my apt. building.  I refused to go to Cablevision - an evil company IMO - so I had to scramble also.  Had to watch on my computer - had to buy a new computer to do it.  The games must be watched.  I know your situation very well.  Enjoy your big TV.

Jose, in your haste to make happy, you knda lost your vision.  The reality of the situation is that you saw the article, you paraphased it.  Not ever hearing of that before is also a reality.  So where did you leave reality to be fantaiszing?

You could since you never heard that before begin some speculating how that can happen, but since you are speculating on reality of a known by some, that speculation becomes resaerch for an answer.

Unless your attention span is that of a wonderer then you have not fantasized.

Boy, you make it tough on me to keep track of your spin

"If you are the PBC, why would you want to convert him to short relief when he is dragging the contract around with him that he has?"

Jose,

Just a thought to the question you posed above.....

Obviously Snell is pitching no where near where he should be for a guy who is making 3.2 million bux.  Now, it's no secret that others around the MLB (and I think even some in the PBC) see/saw Snell as always pitching in a relief role.  Possibly, you get him to the bullpen, get him success, get his market value up, and then see if you can ship him out.  Just a thought on that.

One more thing on Ian.....

I could understand if he wasn't pitching terribly and the fans, media, bloggas were all over him, but the criticism is SO deserved it's now to the point where it's not funny anymore.  You are a professional athlete.  If you don't perform, someone else will.  This is a guy who was progressing to become our #1 or #2 starter (there's no question he's got the arm) and now all of a sudden he can't make it out of the 3rd or 4th inning most nights.  I mean, didn't he know this would happen (even with Pirate fans and media)?  Did he think b/c the team has lost for 16 straight years that he'd get more of a pass?  I was once a huge Snell fan (almost bought a 45 Jersey).  Thank whoever I didn't make that mistake.

Hopefully he can get his value up so he can be traded.  I wish him the best of luck, but I don't want to see him in a Pirates uni ever again.  With some of the comments he made in the interview yesterday, it is now clear that he doesn't belong here anymore.

If Ian's "Dad" could pass all these negative comments on to him that'd be great.  Seeing as how it helps his confidence and all.

This literally is an asylum.

Thanks Capn!  It is weirdly obsessive.  I have to watch every game now.  On the rare occasion when I can watch realtime I get the dvr humming and watch it later.

I have to give Snell and any baseball player credit for hanging tough with the criticism they give for living and working in a fishbowl.  We can be brutal sometimes, and seeing by people's reaction on here when the criticism is aimed at a fellow-asylum member, we crack under far less pressure!

I once posted a link to a story about Moskie on Moskie's blog, and he mentioned that they (players) are encouraged to NOT expose themselves to what is said about them in the press.  I assured him this was a very friendly piece and I think he read it, but generally I think players are wise to avoid reading what is written about them.

Too quiet on the draft front

1. Jordan Cooper (stated asking price $900K)

2. Zach von Rosenburg (visiting this weekend)

3.  Colton Cain (waiting for an ok from MLB to get an offer, 2 weeks as of 6/18)

4. Trent Stevenson (will visit shortly)

5. Victor Black - Signed

6. Evan Chambers

7. Aaron Baker - Signed

8. Michael Heller (7 digits)

9. Brooks Pounders Signed

10. Matthew Den Dekker

And a good day for some fishing

Bucco Nation (37 States in the Union)

Still looking for inmates from the following:

Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Hawaii, Minnesota, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Tennessee, Washington, Wyoming

We do have 6 countries represented: Australia, Brazil, Canada, Germany, Ireland, Phillipines

Biz,

Essentially five of out starters are first year starters with this team.  I think it nothing more than want to end the losing in the club house.  These guys play hard evry night they are having fun.  I doubt very much of the past years has any effect on those guys.  Starting today we have just two of the starting pitchers from last year

I tend to think we overlook the nnumber of knew guys and we must include anyone who played after the trade as being in limbo for this season.

We have a whole new bench, these guys have no tangent to the past years other than repeated rants they may read here.

The only guys who have some trench work done in the losing years is Adam, Freddy, and Jack.  There has never been a word spoken that one of these three are involved in club house shananigans.

I just see no evidence to support how this esentially a partial new club is torn down by the past they had no part in.

Three major moves since the season started and two thirds of the moves area about accountability and the other third has to do woth growth improvement.

These guys are seeing a FO that plans its work and works its plan, that to any ballplayer is cause for feeing you have the suport.

Did you see the joy on their faces after the clutch put it into gear?

These guys believe that they can play.  

I will say it is an obvious thought to think that things carry over, but i think with so many new faces thesde guys are not getting caught up in that.

The Buccarroo Club has a special benefit where the kids are invited to a special autograph signing before a game.  My kids' special day was in May, and they got autographs (and  to meet) Tyler Yates and Ian Snell.  I don't think Yates pitched at all after that.

Is signing autographs for the kids a curse, or a punishment, or what?

Ian Snell = Derek Bell

@ Billy

No problem.  I'm off from work today, but before I get into the "honey do" list, I figured I would try to contribute something.

May stop back later if time permits.  If the Pirates take at least 2 of 3 this weekend, they have a winning interleague record, so Let's Go Bucs!!

Just a point...I just viewed the pics from last nights game, specifically the shot of Andrew reaching out on the single...

He is out of the batters box when he connects. Look at his Right foot. Not sure it is newsworthy but had a few minutes before my next meeting.

@JerseyJoe:

Maybe I'm missing something, but are you comparing Bay to Morgan strictly as a fielder when you say that Bay cannot carry Morgan's spikes?  If you are then the comparison is in a vacuum because the player must also bat.  Bay is on a 40 homer 140 RBI pace.  Morgan is on a 2 homer 50 RBI pace and is a corner outfielder.  Maybe you were being sarcastic and I missed it, but I don't see the comparison the same way you do.

NuHo-Giles is not exactly a great human being.There were at least a couple guys who watched him beat a woman in a bar.Drag her by her hair.There was at least 1or 2 instances of him beating that woman/or another.No way you blame that on the Bucs.He just went into a "rage".As far him being an ahole..no idea.But if he didn't like a woman he got physical...so not a good choice.

@Jersey - re - new guys

I hope you are right, teams need talent for sure, but IMO they also need character and energy.

Last years team, I thought had both character and energy, based on the number of come from behind wins they had till the trading started.  You don't know if the poor ending to the year was due to the guys we lost, or losing the teams energy after that.

You gotta have hope, and right now, I'm not sure where the club might be getting it from, McCutch has added some hope, lets see how they respond when whoever is going to get moved in the next month gets moved.

And with the number of newbies on the team, lets hope there are some vets left to lead the kiddies, know what I mean?

@NH (from a while back) - Pitchers losing velocity - Some of those are explanable, some of those I'm not sure of.  I don't remember Gorzo being a 95er at any point.  Snell obviously wasn't getting up there as frequently - but he definitely has at times this year.  He just got obsessed with nibbling at the corners.  Since his stint on the DL, Capps has been back into the 95 range with more consistency than we've seen for a while (at least based on the readings they show on FSN).  He doesn't do it on every pitch though, as no pitcher should.  I'll be interested to see if Hansen can get the velocity back up.  Having the nerve issue in the neck/upper back can't help the velocity much.

My thought is that, except in case of injuries (like Trevor Hoffman) guys often take off some speed as they learn how to actually pitch.  Questionable substances aside, remember how Clemens pitched when he was young?  He was called Rocket for a reason.  But he dealt with some arm issues, took 4-5 MPH and developed other pitches.  It's kind of suprising to see, say, Chavez and Yates put it up there at 96,97 but they both run into trouble at times, because that's most of what they do.  If Chavez in particular can get any movement on his pitches, or something to mix in with his heat, he could become a devestating pitcher.

          I have read here that at least a few consider Morton a "throw in" with the McClouth trade. I couldnt disagree more, just reading past scouting reports and listening to the Rockies people and watching him pitch i believe he is the key to the deal. His fastball was clocked in the mid nineties last week, he has a filthy sinker and curve. He also throws a cutter with a lot of movement plus a change up.

            He is young and needs to demonstrate greater command of his great stuff but i am optomistic he will get it. If Gorkys and Locke pan out i will be glad to consider them "Throw ins"

Giles numbers and the alleged behavior you point out fit the profile of the steroid era in baseball.  Tempermental rage, great burst of power numbers, followed by a dramatic decline in power numbers once random testing was announced.  One homer per 22 at bats from 95 to 98, 1 homer every 14 at bats from 99 to to 02, 1 homer every 35 at bats from 03 to present.   Just sayin', fits the profile.

maz - Stocky muscular guy who's stats dropped with the combination of arriving in Petco and, oh, stricter testing, having rage issues?  Ever see the video of that?  It's a bit disturbing.  Almost as disturbing as watch Giles shove the woman around/out of the bar is that not one jerk in the whole place steps in.

Haven't seen much made of it, so I'll say it:

Ohlie pitched VERY well last night.  I'm pretty happy with him, even if he's not hitting 96 on the gun.  Not to say I wouldn't enjoy it if he did, by the way. Just saying I'm happy with him.

Also, Cutch is pretty much the greatest. I like the nickname many here have already given him: "Clutch."  Not Clutch McCutch or McCutch Clutch, just Clutch.  Whatever, his nickname ought to be "The Franchise."  Because that's what he is.

macs

Agreed, Morton was not a throw in. Disagree that Locke or Gorkys could be categorized that way.  This was a trade for three legit prospects. Sometimes prospects hit, sometimes they don't. The trade was based on our belief that all three will make it.  Of course, we knew/know that 0, 1, 2, or 3 may make it. But we believed in all three guys. There were no throw-ins.  

Retire-There is no way to compare those two.Right in front of Bay you have Youkilis with a .450 OBP.Also Pedroia.Ellsbury or Drew(.390 OBP).Let's face it ..if Bay was here take 20+ RBI and 6-8+ - HRs away.Bay is having a lights out career year on a better team.He had 13 errors the last 3 years and has none this year.He has 66 RBI,but we have got 51 RBI from Moss and Andy plus 2(sometimes) starters and two others which makes "salary dump" a moot point possibly by the end of this year.We've already heard "salary dump"mentioned in the Nady trade.However we got the best of that one.Just no way to compare Morgan and Bay.One is a leadoff/#2 and the other is a #3 and sometime cleanup

McClutchen would seem to be the more streamlined nickname.  One word...says it all.

Even so, it is still early in the kid's career.  I wouldn't give him that nickname yet, not based on a sampling of 91 at bats over 20 games.  Remember when Zach Duke was a rookie?   Took 3 years of wandering in the desert to get back to this point.

BAB - I'm enjoying watching Ohlie pitch too.  When was the last time we had a truly effective sinkerball pitcher?  Lieber?  I wouldn't mind if that's what he becomes.  Of course I wouldn't mind if he suddenly finds a way to mix in a 96 mph fastball either!  :-)

I agree Morton was NOT a "throw in".I could go back to the archives,but hopefully the ones who said he was could elucidate their statements and why.To me he looks like a #2 or #3.Anyone care to back up the reasoning on WHY Morton is a "throw in"?I wish there was a search you could use to find this sort of thing!

"Haven't seen much made of it, so I'll say it:

Ohlie pitched VERY well last night.  I'm pretty happy with him, even if he's not hitting 96 on the gun.  Not to say I wouldn't enjoy it if he did, by the way. Just saying I'm happy with him.

Also, Cutch is pretty much the greatest. I like the nickname many here have already given him: "Clutch."  Not Clutch McCutch or McCutch Clutch, just Clutch.  Whatever, his nickname ought to be "The Franchise."  Because that's what he is."

BAB,

Great post...I second all of what you said.

Maz, joe compared them, I just answered the comparison.  He compared Bay to Morgan.  That said, there is no ignoring the fact that they both play/played left field here so you have to compare the entirety of their work.   Put Morgan in the Red Sox line up and do you think he has numbers even approaching Bay's.  Morgan does not have the numbers Bay put up here in Pittsburgh in his worst season nor his OBP.

I don't disagree that Bay was not a good leftfielder his last three years here.  His knee played a large part in that but that still does not excuse Bay's incredible frequency for missing the cut off man.  Still, Morgan does not begin to save enough runs as a fielder to make up for the offense he lacks as compared to Bay.

@ diehard

Zach Duke has found his sinker again too.  When Paul gets back to his top form, we'll have 3 good ground ball pitchers.

Stay tuned....more double plays to come.

Retire-You and I agree.It's like comparing Billy Martin to JR.  ;-)

@ Mazfromiowa

I think some considered Morton a throw in b/c he wasn't a "top" prospect as rated by Baseball America (or could've been Prospectus...I forget but it was 1 of those 2).

Gorkys was the #4 in Atl system

Locke was the #7

Morton wasn't in top 10 I guess?

I was just p.o.'d about the McLouth trade, that when I actually saw Morton throw I was impressed ('specially after seeing his numbers with Atl last season).  if he develops control, he could be an excellent starter.

It's been interesting reading to see the comments on Snell.  While I've not been very pleased with his performance this year, and even more so with his finger-pointing, it does make me a bit sad to see him kind of coming undone.

I think sometimes we forget that so many of these guys are 20-something-year-old kids who, while they are given millions of dollars, they are performing in front of thousands and thousands of people who expect perfection out of them each and every time they come into the game.  The pressure would have to be tremendous.  

Thinking about it, I'm actually surprised that we don't see more players crack under the pressure and lose it mentally.  Basically, in the last decade of the Pirates, I can only really recall Chris Duffy, and now Ian, that have publicly kind of come apart.  

Good afternoon asylum.

impliedi

"I can only really recall Chris Duffy, and now Ian, that have publicly kind of come apart. "

With Duffy I think alot of that had to do with the pitch from Schilling that hit him in the head in spring training, after that he was never the same.

A great, gutty win by a team that historically finds ways to lose those games instead of win them.

One reason we often lose them is because of baserunning blunders such as the one that Wilson tried to make in the 9th last night.  With nobody out, runners on 1st and 2nd, and McCutchen trying to bunt, why on earth would you try to steal 3rd?  I understand that Wilson was safe, and that he was taking a risk on what he understood as a tough play by the SS, but there was virtually no reward for his risk.

Of course, the events played out in his unlikely favor, and he made a nice slide barely around the throw that was in time, but I hope someone tells him that much more often than not, that's the kind of very unnecessary risk that makes us the hapless Pirates.

And of course, the ending was nice, so I'm sure I'll get lampooned.  Hey, I enjoyed the ending as much as anyone, I just remember just before that saying "Jack, what the hell are you doing".

Why-There was one blogger who mentioned last season w/Atlanta (15 starts) and his ERA of 6.00+.Another one mentioned they could not see him getting THAT MUCH BETTER in less than one year.It just seems like a knee jerk assessment with little or no facts.The FO studies these guys for a long time.I think this FO is MUCH better at making trades.By the end of next year I think the Bay trade(salary dump) will also swing in our favor.The outrage over the trades is usually followed by a "maybe this trade was pretty good after all" thought process.When you trade for "prospects" ...once again "instant gratification" is not usually expected.

pofG - Watching some analysis of the play where Wilson stole, especially from Barry Larkin on MLB, it was actually a very heads up play.  Wilson followed the shortstop who was covering third - no one was covering second, so he could have turned around and gotten back with no play there.  When the catcher held onto the ball for that extra second, Wilson took third.  Wasn't a blunder - it was a veteran SS knowing how that play works and how to exploit it.

pirates of g

I disagree with you on Wilson, that was a GREAT play by him to follow the SS down and take off for third it was an absolutely GREAT play by a GREAT player.

pirates of g

Also there was a great reward for his risk, if not he doesn't score on the ball hit by McCutchen Choo would've got it in in time to keep Wilson at 3rd.

@PoG--<<With nobody out, runners on 1st and 2nd, and McCutchen trying to bunt, why on earth would you try to steal 3rd?>>

On the bunt you have a SS covering a lot of ground to get to 3rd all the while worried a slap hit where you just were wins the game so he may be a step slower getting out of the gate. He also is not necessarily running in a str8 line to 3rd seeing as he has to set up to receive the thow from the catcher at or on the bag so as not to interfere w/ JW JW knows this as well as anyone. I agree a risk but one worth taking IMO.

Greetings inmates….

I was at Wednesday’s game, and enjoyed seeing all that offence for a change; however, yesterday’s walk-off win was the best so far this year. I know that it came against the “less than hapless” Indians, but it was the manor of the ending with Jack taking advantage of their “wheel play” and Clutch McCutchen providing the walk-off……

AMac figured in all 3 of our runs……he himself is worth the price of admission if you haven’t had the chance to whiteness his skills yet in person……you should…….TV just doesn’t demonstrate his speed like seeing it unfold in front of you live. He goes from 0 to “Ludicrous Speed” in one step………

I’ll be at the Saturday game and for the official BayDay game on Sunday. Hopefully we can continue to beat up on some of these lower level teams. It is already obvious that ALL the experts that picked us to be the worst team in MLB (150-1 odds) this season, really don’t their own business very well. Of course the really blew it by choosing the Rays for the bottom last year, also at 150-1 too.

We may not be at the top of the heap, but we are definitely not at the bottom either.

Why didn't I....

Morton wasn’t listed as a top prospect because he had significant # of games pitched at the MLB level last year. He was considered a pro rather than a prospect even though he was at AAA this year. Similarly if Gorzelanny was pitching lights out at AAA this season, he wouldn’t be listed in those publications either.

You forget Tracy's unnecessary tinkering with Duffy's hitting.  :-)

Biz,

Why do you have Jordan Cooper rated so highly?  I was more impressed with ZVR...

looks like Nut_H is still singing kumbaya after yesterday's blog lovefest!   ;).

actually, the question about loss of velocity is one I would also like to hear answered (by Kerrigan?).

and good to see Gorkys picking it up (3/4 last night and hitting well for the week). GORKYSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

BaB's point: good game by Ohlie - agree

and kudos to our well-educated PBC fans (esp those in the left-field front row during the 8th last night) who stayed back and did not reach out on that drive to Nyjmo.

DMac - Tracy didn't just mess with Duffy's hitting.  He messed with his head.  And he didn't mess with Duke's mechanics either... no wait, he did that too.  That honeymoon is Colorado is going to end around August 1.

I agree with all of the analysis on Jack's "steal" of third.  It really wasn't a steal attempt as much as it was an attempt to exploit the wheel play.  In addition to having the chance to straight steal because the Shortstop is on the move and the catcher has to receive a pitch from a bunt attempt and then make the throw to third, it also has these other benefits:  1) gives him a chance to beat a throw to third on a bunt into the wheel play, 2) he scores on any hit to the outfield, 3) he can make it back to 2nd if a bunt is popped up or a slap hit is a line drive (not a benefit, but it wasn't INCREASING the gamble at all).  I agree with all of the analysis, it was extremely savvy. Its how you beat the wheel play. You have to punish the team for putting it on by following the shortstop.  

Now when Cutch missed the bunt, Jack could've gone back to second, but clearly he felt he was in a good position and it was the right play to take third.  (I'm saying he felt both of those things.)  Having not been there, I can't say for sure how the catcher received the ball and reacted, etc. But I did think, in real time, it was a really smart play, and the replays seem to confirm it.

biz

Don't we have 7 countries represented?  I'm pretty sure we have some folks from the U.S. ;-)

@msb21 - re list

There's no particular order, its just a list of guys folks here wanted to be signed.

BABS - 7 countries

Thats a DUH for me....

Bucco Nation (37 States in the Union)

Still looking for inmates from the following:

Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Hawaii, Minnesota, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Tennessee, Washington, Wyoming

We do have 7 countries represented: Australia, Brazil, Canada, Germany, Ireland, Phillipines and lest I forget, the good old USA

Just got finished catching up on all of the posts.  One thing that no one commented on that irked me from the story:  Can we please put a moratorium on athletes saying things like "You wouldn't understand.  Unless you played professional baseball, you wouldn't understand."

I hate it when athletes invalidate the observations and opinions of fans or media because they aren't a former player.  The idea that Ian Snell's life is so uniquely complicated that my opinion of it is worthless is more insane than ... well, even Ian Snell!

Guess what, Ian?  I'm smarter than you.  So are the posters on this board ... well, most of them at least.  Baseball ain't brain surgery and you're not complicated, you're a nutcase.

Ugh, that fired me up!

Whew. That's 25 more votes for Cutch, Moss, Freddy, Jack, and Adam.  Go do your duty, and vote for Andrew and the boys for the ASG!  www.mlb.com

Fat Jimmy

I think a few touched on that yesterday, but you're absolutely right. As I posted yesterday: We may not know how tough it is to pitch, be booed, and so forth, but we know that we want to see wins and good pitching, and we saw neither of those from him.

He doesn't know a single thing about going to work every day, reporting to a boss, managing others, fielding client phone calls, working late hours against a deadline, putting in for vacation time only to have to work holidays anyway, living paycheck to paycheck because you have to, unemployment, or a whole host of other realities that most of us have dealt, still are dealing, or will deal with many times in our lives.  Get a clue Ian.

Thanks, diehard...Seems like Tracy did far more harm here than just the record indicates.  ;-)

Re: trades of potential free agents - anyone up to speed on how draft pick compensation is determined? Would it be more advantageous to hang onto Ad. Laroche and Grabow instead of trading them if return is not sufficient?

1 Play last night that got me fired up.....

Bottom of the 8th inning.  Cleveland brings in a LH reliever (I forget his name) and he proceeds to walk Brandon Moss on 4 pitches.  Jason Jaramillo steps to the plate with bases loaded and 1 out in a 2-2 ball game.  AND HE SWINGS AT THE 1ST PITCH!!!!! and grounds into an inning ending DP.

I know he's only 25 or 26, but that's basic baseball.  A guy just came in and threw 4 strait balls to load the bases.  How do you not make him throw you 1 strike before you swing?

I've been loving Jason's play (and Robbie's tooooo) in Ryan's absence, but that was inexcusable.  Hopefully, Jason's dad or mom don't read these comments tooooo.  Wouldn't wanna hurt anotha psyche!

Biz,

If memory serves me right, I believe that there was a poster from Scotland as well.  Motherwell, I think.

Unfortunately, I cannot remember his user name.

***Random Interjection***Random Interjection***Random Interjection***

Baygathering at PNC Park

******************************************************************

I am looking for 2 people who want to play catch on the field at PNC Park on Sunday. Baywatch and I are already set.

All you need is your glove and either soft sole or flat shoes. Please respond to my e-mail. First 2 get the invite. The catcxh will occur after the game.

Also, If you are coming and you are bringing children, PNC Park lets kids run the bases after all Sunday home games.

My e-mail is dtayoob@gmail.com

Thankspghfan, I remember that too, had a scottish avatar, so I'll add it

Joggin George - re - Type A and B players.

I'll check, I think MLB Trade Rumors has something on it, one thing I do know is that the PBC would have to offer arbitration, it always ticked me off that we didn't do that to Bonds, but supposedly he threatened to take them there if it was offered.

The trouble this past year with some Type As and Bs is no one wanted to sign them and give up the draft picks

Jogging George - re - Type A, B

heres a link, its old info, but still accurate

insider.espn.go.com/.../print

Oh, oh, just saw the insider entry

Before you make the comment that I am saying that not knowing his father caused the pitching problems I am not.  I was giving an example that just because athletes have talent that does not mean they did not have problems.

WWWYP

I never said he didn't know any realities. I said he didn't know a lot of other realities that people face. You illustrate my point perfectly: everyone goes throw adversity. Thus, we all have some common understanding of what adversity is, and how hard it can be to achieve in the face of it.  

I know a whole heck of a lot about these players, actually, and what I definitely know is that there wasn't a single fan rooting for Ian to fail.  We all supported him.  When he started performing poorly AND blaming others, many got frustrated. For him to say we don't understand because we're not baseball players is patently absurd.  I understand just fine that its hard. I, like most here, played baseball in my youth. Maybe if it were a whole lot easier, I'd be in the majors too.  I have a strong appreciation for the talent, skill, and effort of professional athletes.  Ian has not performed. That is, and always will be, the bottom line in almost any profession.

Free agency, or so I understand it

All players, regardless as to whether FAs or not are ranked in one of these 5 groups

1B, OF, DH together

2B, 3B, SS together

Catchers

SP

RP

They are ranked based on various stats.

A Type A player is in the Top 20% of that groups ranking, if you sign a Type A, unless you have one of the first 15 draft picks in the first round, you give your 1st rounder to the team that lost the player, if you have one of the first 15 picks in 1st round, you give the team your second round pick

A Type B player is ranked between 21-40%, the team that loses the player gets a sandwich pick between rounds 1 and 2

And confirmed that you have to offer the player arbitration.

Don't know where Adam and Grabow would rank,

BAB

How can you say that you understand what he is going through because you know about the players, but Ian does not about the problems that you face because he has not experienced them.  Are you not contradicting yourself?

Also, it takes more than talent to get to the majors.  Nothing against you personally, but even if you were more talented you probably would not have made the majors.  There have been many cases of anxiety disorders and other mental issues.  I'm not saying you have done this but, many have commented that snell has no mental toughness, however, any player, especially one taken in the late 20s of the draft, that makes the majors, has more mental toughness than the majority of people in the world.

Probable Type A Free Agents

www.mlbtraderumors.com/.../probable-type-a-free-agents.html

WhatsWrongWithYOUPeople <<  You do not have the right to make these comments because you do not know what he has gone through>>

He chose his profession…..frankly, he’s just an entertainer…….if baseball fans don’t spend their $$ to watch these players play a game, there wouldn’t be any money in it and they would have to get a real job doing something that actually provides value for the dollars he earns. He is not doing a very good job at his chosen profession…..entertaining baseball fans…..that isn’t the fans fault, it’s his. He is not the only player to have difficulty handling the pressure of the job; unfortunately, it takes more than talent to make it in the majors. I think that Ian has the necessary talent, but whether he also has the mental toughness for the job……well that still remains to be proven.

Players aren’t entitled to our praise, admiration, loyalty, etc……because they are nice guys with talent; they earn it through their performance. When they are good we love them, when they are bad for an extended period of time, they lose our support. We the customers of MLB are his ultimate bosses, and we have EVERY RIGHT to comment about overpaid underperformers that act like spoiled brats…….

That said, I hope that he goes to Indy, works hard, keeps his mouth shut, stops blaming everybody but the man looking back in the mirror, and gets his butt back to the up to the big club. He has considerable talent, and the PBC is way too weak to throw away talent….at least as long as there is hope that that talent can still be harnessed. This may be his last chance…….

Well said, UglyKen!

And Ian is the only man who can make or break him at this point.

WWWYP

I do not understand his exact personal situation.  What I do understand, however, is that there are stressors in people's lives. That's the point I was making before, and the point I was making when I said he doesn't know my exact stressors either.  In spite of this, as I said, we all understand trying to succeed in the face of adversity, to some extent.  

As to the point about my knowing the players and the game, the intent of that point is to refute the notion underlying Snell's statement that we're all just piling on him for no reason.  On the contrary, we all piled on him only after he failed to pitch well and then failed to take responsibility.  When I screw up at work, I can't say: "Look, I was raised by a single mom. Sorry."  Its talking out of both sides of the mouth for someone to even suggest that's a viable excuse.  He's always going to have faced whatever life he faced growing up.  So if that's having an impact on the way he pitches, why hasn't it always had an impact?  

The fact is, he signed a multi-million dollar contract because his skill and performance dictated it.  Put simply: he was worth it.  However, his performance in the past (approximately) two years has been FAR below the standards he established with that performance.  When people asked him why, he blamed everyone under the sun.  Now he says we can't understand why he has failed because we don't play in the league.  Wrong.  We may not play in the league, but we live in the world.  When someone succeeds, then stops succeeding, and blames everyone around them repeatedly, while simultaneously refusing to respond to suggestions from their coaches/employer, it makes a very bad impression.

I think he absolutely WAS mentally tough.  I agree that it would be hard to make it if he wasn't. He pitched for a while with a certain "bulldog" mentality that I just absolutely loved.  But somewhere along the line he stopped. This is, to most of us, the main reason he's no longer cutting it.  We almost all believe he still has the talent, but his mental approach has really suffered. What happened?  Did he work less hard after the contract? Maybe.  Did he block out advice from coaches when the league started catching up to him? Sure seems like it.  I don't know what happened, but I know this: he pitches very timidly now.  He is not the same pitcher, in his approach, as he was.  And that is something that HAS to come from within.  We would all love money or the privilege of being in the big leagues to be enough motivation for everyone. But it just isn't.  And right now, he's not doing his job.  And to hear someone not doing their job whine about their circumstances and blame everyone else, and then say no one knows the pressure they're dealing with, that rubs people the wrong way. Justifiably so, in my opinion.  We may not know exactly the pressure of being the #2 starter on a major league team.  But we know pressure, we know adversity, and we're willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  But he cut that option off when he blamed everyone else, and blocked it further by just using the trite "Nobody knows how hard I have it" line instead of owning up to his own shortcomings.  Contextualize them with your personal struggle if you wish, but take responsibility too.

UngyKen

Everything you said is valid, but it has nothing to do with what I am arguing.

My original problem was with fat jimmy's comments about how smart he is.

When I made the comment that you were quoting, I was speaking about BAB comment that he does not know about the struggles that the everyday person has.  It was explaining that this was a contradiction because he was doing the exact same thing.

"We the customers of MLB are his ultimate bosses, and we have EVERY RIGHT to comment about overpaid underperformers that act like spoiled brats……."

You do have the right to speak of his PERFORMANCE it is not right to speak of a persons character when you know nothing of it.  The comments are no different than when I made comments of the people on the blog.  I am tired of hearing bitter people speak of how athletes do not know about real problems because they have money.

@WWWYP - thanks for the link for Type As, hope Grabow keeps himself on the list if we keep him, but he just might accept arbitration.

The only thing I would add about Ian is IMO, he is his own worst enemy, this statement is based on what I've read in papers and what I've heard him say on TV.  Yes, this is a judgement, but I'd bet many, if not all of us at one time or another have done the same thing to ourselves.

Yes, we all walk our own path, but again, IMO, Ian is walking a lonely one right now.

BAB

You still are making some unfair comments.

1.  "When I screw up at work, I can't say: "Look, I was raised by a single mom. Sorry."  Its talking out of both sides of the mouth for someone to even suggest that's a viable excuse."

He has never said this to my knowledge.  I pretty sure DK just added this to his article to give more insight.  And my use come when you stated(what I percieved you stated) he did not understand the realities of life.

2.  "Nobody knows how hard I have it"

He did not say that either.  I believe him stating you wouldn't understand, truly shows you does not know what's wrong.  If he did he would fix it.

WWWYP

You're right, I don't think he has invoked the father thing.  I still think its a poor excuse, but I won't hold it against him, as he is not the one who used it.

As for the second comment, my perception is that's what he is saying with his comments about how none of us could understand.  

Here's the text of DK's exchange:

---

I asked what he needs to do: "Nothing. You guys don't understand it unless you played baseball. You don't understand it, and the people at home don't understand it. I'm just going down there, get my thoughts together and do well."

---

First, the fact that he said there's nothing he needs to do is obviously just absurd. Let's just give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was kind of getting ahead of himself, and didn't actually mean nothing, but rather that there was nothing he could explain.  

To say "you guys just don't understand it unless you played baseball" does NOT imply that he doesn't know what is wrong. It implies that the deficiency is with US, that we couldn't know.  It implies that people who played baseball would (or could, anyway) understand.

I think the last line is the key: get my thoughts together and do well.

I wish he had just said that.  I think that's what he really needs to do.

WhatsWrongWithYOUPeople << You do have the right to speak of his PERFORMANCE it is not right to speak of a persons character when you know nothing of it.  >>

We the paying customer have EVERY RIGHT to comment on any aspect that effects our opinion of him. MLB stars live their lives as if they were in a fish bowl. Whether they like it or not, it comes with the job. Most players realize this going in and learn to be careful with what they say to (or about) the fans of the game.

He is provided with a considerable salary to be an entertainer of MLB fans. MLB players have written into their contracts that they help promote the game to the fans via commercials, visits to supermarkets (Giant Eagle), and scheduled events like Pirate Fanfest, the caravan, etc.

The answers that he gave in that interview just continue to demonstrate that he is his own worst enemy…..…It is his fault that fans were offended by his words, not our fault that we felt offended by them. We are the paying customer, and as such, we are the ones that has to be pandered too, not the reverse. He is the one that needs to watch what he says, NOT US.

Retire, well, yes you can compare, you can even compare apples and oranges.

I was responding to the cries of we had the best outfield bla bla bla and from playing an outfield position the three guys playing the field are better than the three guys we had last year.

if my comparison was to be complete players, it would have been that.

It was not a trade comparison of players, it was who has the best leather, these three or the other three.

When you do throw in the runs saved by morgan over bay youy have to also throw in all those doubles bay gives up with all those runs that came from all those doubles, that tightens it up.

But I doubt any one can say the jason can play the field as good as Morgan, he can not.

The part about hime not knowing was just my opinion and I have nothing to back it.  I just believe that whenanyone makes excuses that do not seem plausible does not truly believe them, they just need something so the mind does not constantly have to wonder whats going on.

To expand what i was going to get to or maybe I did and forgot:   We have better fielding accross the board in the outfield, we have a better third baseman, we have the same short stop and secondbaseman and first baseman as last year and all three have played as good or better than they did last year.

The pitching has been better.

The team is better.

The to other inmates playing catch on the field are pghfaninstl and Jersey Joe.

WWWYP

I think that's as fair a guess as any.

@Jersey Joe

When people claimed we had the best outfield in baseball, I believe they meant it more from an offensive standpoint.

Did anyone hear when he said to John Peratto (I think)..."I'm not your pal". Hahaha, that was priceless.

So what, are at 12 signed draft picks?  I know von Rosenburg is coming this weekend for a visit, Cain and another guy are in a holding pattern till MLB/Budmeister is contacted, Stevenson is supposed to visit "soon", but any word, rumbles, rumors on any of our other draft picks?

DK

I hope your intern is not like Kramer's intern.  I can just see her walking into CF's workspace:

"Mr. Kovacevic would like to schedule a meeting with you at Starbucks coffee in ten minutes."

As you stand behind her, nodding.

In seriousness, welcome to Laura.  Just warn her, everyone posting here is nuts.

      Ian seemed to get buy and actually flourish for a couple of years on his "STUFF" which is actually pretty good. What actually brought him down over the last year+ was summed up last night by Steve Blass. "Ian needs to go down to Indianapolis and learn how to pitch"  that basically sums it up.

     I used to thoroughly enjoy watching Greg Maddux pitch in his prime, he was an absolute surgeon out there. He had 4 keys to pitching

 1. Work the ball inside-outside and hit your target.

 2. Change speeds

 3. Keep the ball down in the zone

 4. Throw strikes.

Sounds simple enough but obviously it is not. Learning how to Pitch will be Ian's key to being a successful pitcher, the "CHANNELING HIS INNER C.C" and worrying about the fans reaction to his performance just show his lack of mental toughness. Because of that trait i question that he will ever learn how to really pitch.

I know"you're not my pal",but after seeing Drew with his dreads ...maybe we need more dreadlocks on this club.Srsly.

                           not your pal

                             Maz

Matt said: "Did anyone hear when he said to John Peratto (I think)..."I'm