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Post-Gazette beat writers Dejan Kovacevic and Chuck Finder blog about the Pittsburgh Baseball Club.

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Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis

By Dejan Kovacevic | 3:38 p.m. Thursday

The Pirates today optioned starter Ian Snell to Class AAA Indianapolis. A corresponding move will be announced before the game tomorrow.

Snell is 2-8 with a 5.36 ERA, each figure the worst on the staff.

Details to come.

UPDATE 3:55 p.m.: Snell just said that the decision to go to Indianapolis was his, that he approached management late last night with the idea. (Which explains why he was waiting outside John Russell's office after the game, as documented in this morning's Notebook.) His explanation basically came down to this: He sought a more positive environment: "Too much negativity. I want to be a positive person if I'm going to be here. I felt like I was going to be negative if I was going to be here, and I didn't want to ruin this team." He was asked to explain who actually made the call that he would go down: "I wasn't going to allow them to say what they want. I told them I wanted to go down. It's best for the team." I asked why he would do this, when three of his past four starts were quality starts. "There's a lot. I don't want to point fingers and make excuses. I just made a better decision for myself, my career and my life." I asked what he needs to do: "Nothing. You guys don't understand it unless you played baseball. You don't understand it, and the people at home don't understand it. I'm just going down there, get my thoughts together and do well."

4:06 p.m.: Virgil Vasquez, as expected, will be the pitcher coming from Indianapolis.

4:36 p.m.: Audio of Snell's gathering with the media.

4:40 p.m.: Neal Huntington just explained this to me: If Charlie Morton cannot pitch tomorrow night -- and that remains undetermined -- Vasquez will pitch Friday, Jeff Karstens Sunday, and Morton will skip a full turn. If Morton can pitch, Vasquez will pitch Sunday and Karstens will remain in the bullpen. Just ran into Morton, too, and he is adamant the tight left hamstring is feeling better. Either way, be sure that the Pirates are curious to see what Vasquez can do.

4:46 p.m.: Excerpts from Huntington's gathering with the media, on the Snell subject ...

> What happened? "We have talked about a lot of things over the past four or five days, really the last two weeks as a front office and a coaching staff. JR and Joe and myself trying to figure out what the best thing for us to help Ian reach his potential. We talked in depth last night, we talked in depth the night before. I had a conversation with Ian last night at which time he flet it might be the best thing for him to go out. It's one of those situations of who came to the conclusion first. It's really not important. What is important is that we are going to try to help Ian Snell reach his potential because it is still in there. We still see glimpses of it. It's why he has remained in the big leagues, it's why he has remained a player is because we do see the glimpses of it. It's still in there. How we reach it we are not quite sure just yet. I know we are going to continue to work hard."

> Time frame? "I think Ian Snell will show us how long it is going to take. As with any player that goes down to the minor leagues, it's up to them to make the necessary adjustments. It's up to them to be open to coaching. It's up to them to listen to why we think they need to do different things and how we think they need to make the adjustment to get back to the big leagues. It's up to them to go down and challenge themselves not to get the eight hole hitter of a triple A lineup out with a 3-1 fastball straight down the shoot. It's up to them to make good pitches and attack it as if they are trying to attack a major league lineup on a nightly basis."

> So, we are talking about small things we needs to do to get better? "We need to find the consistency. We need to learn how to attack hitters on the inner half of the plate. Two classic examples on our major league team right now of what happens when you do that are Zach Duke and Paul Maholm. Paul did it in his own last year. Zach is doing it again this year. They have had tremendous success as a result of that. That is probably the biggest key, and the other key is consistency and command of the strike zone, throwing quality pitches in quality locations on a consistent basis. If he does that, then he is a good major league pitcher. He does that over short stretches. We need to do that over longer stretches."

> How much of this is attitude-related? "It's a multitude of variables. It's a lot of factors going into it. Sometimes a player won't let his ability come through. Sometimes a player can be his own worst enemy. In this case, we have to find the right buttons to push to help Ian reach his potential."

> How has Snell felt about the atmosphere here? "I think when a player struggles, the best and most successful players block it out. The ones that aren't able to, it wears on them. I think in Ian's case for the better part of a year and a half now he has not felt like he has been supported by the fans because he has struggled, and he has not been able to block that out. I think it will be a big step for Ian as it is with all players to make that jump. You go see triple A baseball, and there are guys that have more talent than guys do in the major leagues. But you put that second and third deck on and self-imposed pressure begins to take over. We all have to deal with stress in our jobs every single day. Some people deal with it quickly."

4:48 p.m.: Bob Smizik is happy to see Snell heading down.


Posted Jun 25 2009, 03:38 PM by Dejan Kovacevic

Comments

MEJacobsen wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:42 PM

Wow....it's about time....

Demery44 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:43 PM

It was the bloggers fault.

You guys are all poopy heads.

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:44 PM

DK

Should we march over here, or stay on the GameDay thread?  I'm assuming staying over there for lineup/updates?

SirLochsby wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:44 PM

Ian --

Get your head straightened out -- for real this time -- then come on back.  Get yourself on an even keel, learn to actually harness the fire, and just be consistent.

As I said 'to' Pedro during the offseason, "Earn your way onto the team."

Demery44 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:44 PM

Prediction:

Ian never pitches again for the Pirates.

He will be traded from Indy.

Bizrow wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:45 PM

Holy cow, whats interesting though is that NH just days ago said he'd be starting come Sunday, not to be critical, but....

Hope this doesn't mean we are trading for that fellow from Minny,

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:45 PM

This just in, Snell blames optioning to AAA on Manager, General Manager.

;-)

Bizrow wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:46 PM

@Demery44 -re Ian never coming back

You just might be right on there...

juan pizarro wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:46 PM

i guess we got our "accountability"

bjm wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:48 PM

Great...now we cant play what's higher:  Snell's pitch count by the third inning or the game time temperature.

Tribester wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:48 PM

Somebody pinch me...I must be dreaming! The Pirates making a sound baseball move in spite of the financial implications? Now if they could just call up Lincoln already :)

Yotum wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:49 PM

For the sake of value, Demery, I hope you're wrong. I fear you may be right though and he gets dealt for nothing.

tedkin43 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:50 PM

As much as I've called for this, I sincerely hope the young man can take this as a wake-up call, get his head together, and return to the PBC as the Ian Snell who pitched so well two seasons ago.

DMac wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:51 PM

Wow!  Ask and you shall receive...meaning mostly DK confirming this.

Holey Smokes!  So, I have to wait to see who pitches for the Bay Day Game on Sunday.  

tedkin43 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:52 PM

Juan,

Good call "i guess we got our "accountability""

Cajun Thunder wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:53 PM

Jen Langosch...the Pirates beat writer for MLB.com has already reported that Virgil Vasquez is the replacement for Ian...and that was known before the demotion was official.

Although...it is interesting to note...that as of yesterday...Gorzo was listed as the probable starter for Indy tomorrow. No new gamenotes for Indy today yet.

Demery44 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:53 PM

It was the Pirate Parrot's fault.

G-Man wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:54 PM

Christmas in June!

KMRempel22 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:55 PM

FINALLY!!!  And it's all our fault...

Bizrow wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:55 PM

@tedkins - re - wakeup call

Couldn't agree more with you, I hope this is the cold water in his face that kicks him in gear.

@JP - re - accountability

Wonder if there is more to this demotion than simply stinky pitching??

Demery44 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:56 PM

Snell signed a big contract, relatively speaking, and was never the same.

SirLochsby wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:57 PM

As far as what happens from here on out?  Well, last year, Brett Myers started off the year horribly and got sent down.  He turned it around in AAA and got his mojo back and was a major contributor later in the year and especially in the postseason.

Trading him from Indy?  That's a classic sell low strategy.  Granted, I don't want to see this current version of Ian pitching with the big "P" on his cap, but I don't need him gone so badly that all we get is a bag o balls and a used bat.

Best case scenario?  He refocuses and takes real responsibility for his performance, pitching so well that they are forced to bring him back up to MLB, where he dominates again.  Who knows?  If it's real, you may even want to hold onto him for next year.....

Cajun Thunder wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:57 PM

I agree with tedkin43...Ian needs the wakeup call...because we can all see that the talent is there. Something needs to be fixed...and taking responsibility for it to get fixed is the first step.

From the reports I heard about an interview that Ian did yesterday...I would have been more shocked if he didn't get sent down. Reportedly...the pitching plan that Kerrigan had for Ian doesn't suit Ian...whether to work off the fastball or off speed stuff. If you aren't going to listen to the coaching staff...and your plan doesn't work...well...do I really need to draw a picture??

Capn wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:57 PM

Hi, all.  I just logged in for a moment in the middle of a busy day and what do I find!!  This had to happen.  He just wasn't getting it done.  Maybe with this very public demotion he will find a way to get his act together.

Off to the game shortly.  Hoping for a win and no rain.

Bizrow wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:57 PM

Its NH's evil twin Skippy that is to blame

jefft wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:57 PM

Best of luck, Ian...hope to see you back soon.

OK, with Morton probably not going on Friday, does this mean Vasquez comes up & pitches Friday, or do they go with Karstens Friday & bring back Gorzo?

JHadar wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:01 PM

All that wasted talent.

goblue21 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:01 PM

4 words to describe Ian Snell:  Jose DeLeon, Oliver Perez.

Saw his blow up inning last time out - did not pitch inside once - must be a very slow learner to Kerrigan's ways.

wakerider429 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:02 PM

My prediction, Snell becomes a decent player on another team.  Same with Older LaRoche. I can see 35-40 homers from him a year on a good team.

Demery44 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:03 PM

On DK's latest quotes from Snell, I think there is something seriously wrong with him.

We make fun of him but I think he really needs some professional help. This is disturbing.

Why Didn't I get to see Roberto? wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:03 PM

This move is 1 whole season tooooo late.  He should've gone down with Gorzo last season.

wakerider429 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:03 PM

I could also see Snell being a star on another team surrounded by leaders and positive players.

Capn wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:03 PM

Another interview by Ian - see DK's update above.  I don't know.  Is he the right guy who always gives the wrong interview?  Because I didn't much like this one either, even when I hoped for something better after his awful one last night.

mazfromiowa wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:04 PM

Leadoff-Most of Negrych's errors were throwing errors.DK mentioned it in one of his discussions a while back.He and Delwyn can both hit but are a liability in the field.That is why Negrych was moved from 3rd,but he is still struggling at 2nd as well.

When I looked at the window on top of this page it says[Pirates option Snell to India].I thought ...man are they sending him to Mumbai?  '-)

jjgolfer wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:04 PM

Gosh do I respect the FO for this

Ian---79 South to 70 West--tell Gorzo we said hi

mazfromiowa wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:06 PM

I think he was tired of Demery's rhymes!!  ;-)

 Mine are better! lol

ss2569 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:07 PM

Snell isn't going to learn a thing by this demotion.  He's still trying to blame it on everyone else.  And he thinks he doesn't need to change anything??? That's just crazy.  He's acting like a 5 year old.

jjgolfer wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:08 PM

my comment on the "update"--he obviously doesnt like his teammates in PIttsburgh--so in Indy, he can get his act together, and become trade bait---good riddance---someday,from another city, he'll give us a Bonilla type "I'm on a real baseball team now" kind of quote, and he'll end up on the same statue as Marian Hossa

LarryZ wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:08 PM

Don't agree with this move.

Snell was pulled too early in his last start v. Cleveland Tuesday.  

The Bucs have a team psychiatrist. Put him to work.  It's nothing with Snell's mechanics.  The kid is strong as a horse.

G-Man wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:09 PM

SNELL: "I don't want to point fingers and make excuses."

G-MAN: "There's a first time for everything."

SNELL: "You guys don't understand it unless you played baseball."

G-MAN: "Then you must not understand either because no one has seen YOU play baseball for two years."

leadoff wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:13 PM

I think it is a sad day for the Bucco nation, Snell going down, he has tremendous stuff and the Pirates were counting on him, this is not a good thing, this is a bad thing, the Bucs can't afford to have better talent fail.

LarryZ wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:13 PM

This is weird. Does he still receive his guaranteed salary per his contract if he is demoted?

Nice work if you can get it.  He's paid to pitch in the majors.

SirLochsby wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:13 PM

G-Man:  I don't know why, but your brand of humor strikes a chord.  Again, my best chuckle all day.

Must be an engineer thing...

MEJacobsen wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:13 PM

@G-Man

Hahahahahahahahahaha

KMRempel22 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:15 PM

I said a long time ago that Ian needed to see a shrink---a sports psychologist to be exact.  His updated comments to Dejan confirm that necessity.  I DO hope that going down to "get (his) thoughts together" involves working with a professional other than minor league coaches.  It is very obvious that Ian's problems are all in his head, and there is nothing wrong with that as long as he recognizes it and gets the help he needs.  I wish him well.

JoeBucco wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:15 PM

Those comments are funny.  I played baseball for quite a while, and I still don't get it, Ian.  

Maybe he should change his name back to Ian Oquendo again and start fresh, or better yet, something completely different like, Ian Deanapolis.

I was inspired to write an article myself on the Buccos and the moves, I'd love to hear what anyone else has to say...

joerozsa.com/.../following-the-cleveland-model-is-that-such-a-good-idea-pirates

Never a dull day in Pirateland.  Imagine if they were winning. :)

Robbiesdad wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:15 PM

Snell's comments are just more of the same from him.  This guy is a total flake.  

"There's a lot. I don't want to point fingers and make excuses. I just made a better decision for myself, my career and my life." I asked what he needs to do: "Nothing. You guys don't understand it unless you played baseball. You don't understand it, and the people at home don't understand it. I'm just going down there, get my thoughts together and do well."

The media doesn't understand?  The people at home (aka fans) don't understand?  Oh, I think we DO understand, Ian.  You've got a $1M talent and a 2 cent head.  I understand things like a 2-8 record and a 5.36 ERA and a big money contract extension just fine.  Believe me, I understand incompetence when I see it.  I've been watching it for almost 17 years now.  Just shut up and go to AAA where you belong!

I hope he never pitches for the Pirates again, but taking into account the "sell low" strategy, it might be best if he got straightened out in Indy, came in fresh in Bradenton with a strong spring and got dealt next March.

Maybe he'd be better if he went back to being Ian Oquendo.  Again...a total flake.

Good-bye and good riddance.

Why Didn't I get to see Roberto? wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:15 PM

"I wasn't going to allow them to say what they want. I told them I wanted to go down. It's best for the team."

That quote is like saying: "You can't fire me!  I quit!"  This guy is crazy.  I really think I'd like the bag of balls and fungo bats right about now.  At least they can't talk and make outrageous statements.

GoneQuiet wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:19 PM

Shouldn't the headline be "Snell options self to Indianapolis"?

Yotum wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:19 PM

At first, I heard "Snell wanted this" and I thought, "wow, good job, Ian, take some responsibility."

Now, I read this garbage about "not understanding" and I don't know how I feel about him. I used to think, despite his many excuses, he wasn't a bad person, but this reflects very poorly. What is it that people don't get Ian? How to take millions of dollars to play a sport and to flop miserably? Get over yourself. Plenty of people at ALL levels of sport know what it's like to struggle. Going down to face inferior talent (though who knows, at this point) is not how you adjust. Just makes me mad.

WhyStanBelinda wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:20 PM

I try to look at things in a positive perspective.  Ian is/was probably close to assaulting one of his teammates, and is going to Argentina (Indy) to clear his mind.  Sometimes you get so angry at your teammates, you just need time away.

Personally, with the results of Myers (Phillies) and Nolasco (Marlins), the time down there will do Ian some good.

mazfromiowa wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:21 PM

JoeBucco-Ian Deanopolis.That was hilarious.I'm still snortin and chortlin.

mlaser wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:21 PM

LarryZ - how can you say he was pulled too early from his previous start.  he threw 50 pitches in the third inning.  Furthermore, he couldn't find the strike zone.  he refuses to following the pitching coaches plan of attack and doesn't have a pitch to get batters out with.  Besides that how many times did he go 0-2,1-2, only to fall in the hole by not attacking the hitter.  I don't know what's wrong with Ian Snell, but I do know that he will not be fixed by pitching three innings every 5 days in the majors.

tedkin43 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:22 PM

Verrrrrry interessssssssssting,

If Ian truly does believe his plan is better than Kerrigan's, how does he explain the relative success of the other starters this year?

I still hope he gets it together and comes back as the pitcher he can be, not the thrower he tries to be.

DMac wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:23 PM

I've got 2 opinions on this...first that I admire him for asking to go to Indy.  That's a big acknowledgement of not performing...a pride-thing if you will.  And he's wrong, you don't have to play baseball to understand wanting to be in a different environment where you can clear your head -- been there, done that myself.  

However, then there's the whole excuses issue...something's not right about the way he's been pitching and he has to acknowledge that too.

I wish him well and hope he gets it together.  When he's on, he can be very good.  There's no doubt he's got the  stuff, he just needs to show it consistently.

wakerider429 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:24 PM

Snell has the talent, the strength, the health and makeup of a 2-4 starter in MLB.  Once he gets straightened out, he will be a quality pitcher.  I could see him figuring things out with a different team and in a few years everyone will be on these blogs wishing we had Snell back.

Plenty of Hope wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:25 PM

this is the happiest day of my entire year!

I am so excited I can hardly stand it! HOORAY! WHOO HOOO! ATTABABY!

His comments are exactly his problem: Man up and pitch, sir.

As Yotum said, what is it we don't understand?

And, Ian, do you want your teammates to be happy that you lose more than four times more than you win when you pitch? If those guys are satisfied with that then they should share a ride to Indy with you.

Srsly.

WhyStanBelinda wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:25 PM

Ian recreates himself as the next Tim Wakefield.  

DanW wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:25 PM

Some other possibilites for Ian's name change:

Ian Oquendo - back to the familiar

Ian B. Free - It worked for World

Ian CuatroCinco - his number

Ian CincoTresSeis - his ERA

Ian Duffy - his career path

Ian Joey Albert Belle Oquendo Davila Snell - pick whatever 2 you like each day

mlaser wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:26 PM

"Snell options self to Indianapolis"?  

Priceless!!!

Thundercrack wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:27 PM

Leadoff, I am not sure that Ian has tremendous stuff anymore.  His velocity isn't the same as a few years ago, he doesn't pitch inside, easily rattled, and his location stinks a lot of the time.  Since the second half of 07 he has been less than average with flashes of pretty good stuff at times.

"Ian Deanapolis"  = beautiful.

Plenty of Hope wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:29 PM

Dan W: <<Ian Duffy - his career path>>

HILARIOUS

jtads14 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:32 PM

Snell is a punk.  Thank goodness he's in AAA.  Management should trade him for a case of IC Light and a Primanti's sandwich.

What kind of person says, "I felt like I was going to be negative if I was going to be here ..."  Who wants a person like that on their team?  He continuely blames other people for his problems, whether it be Kerrigan or his teammates.

See ya Ian.  You won't be missed.

pghfaninstl wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:34 PM

Ahoy inmates!  I have been lurking for most of the day and enjoying the typical banter but I felt I needed to voice my opinion on Snell.

This should have happened last year, but the Pirates gave him the benefit of the doubt with the help of Kerrigan...fair enough.

I understand that this guy COULD be an awesome talent but he is not a team player.  Baseball is a team game the last time I looked...such selfish comments.  The Pirates need LEADERS on the field, especially pitchers.

I am really looking forward to being present at Bay Day and meeting some of you.

wangfung wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:35 PM

I hope that we get some hotdog napkins for Snell.  Speaking of Napkins, Luis Ayala is a lousy egomaniac that has eaten plenty of hotdog water soaked napkins

don't do it !

Thundercrack wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:36 PM

Maybe he will become a knuckleballer.  A knuckleball pitcher usually says that they don't know where the ball is going.  Ian can add the ball to the list of things to blame.    (i think there is also a knucklehead joke in there somewhere)

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:36 PM

mlaser

You're absolutely right. Ian was definitely NOT pulled too early in his last start. He had one of the worst innings I've ever seen.

Ian Deanapolis -- CLASSIC!

I hope the Pirates sit his butt down for a few weeks.  Those comments are absolutely ridiculous.  "You guys don't understand."  You went 2-8, with an ERA over 5. We don't CARE what your excuse is. We're sure sick of you blaming everyone else, but the bottom line is, you STUNK.  We absolutely DO understand this: you decreased our team's chances of winning BY A LOT every time you pitched.  We root for our team to win.  

Sure, we like some guys cus they look like they're trying, and we like some guys cus they're good interviews, and we like some cus they have prodigious talent, but mostly, we like to win.  And if we don't win, we want to compete and at least look like we're TRYING to win.  You failed royally at winning, and you clearly had decided that trying the suggestions of your employer was a waste of time.  That's only okay if you've got a better idea, and you better darn-well hope it works.  You didn't, and it didn't.  

Go grab some pine.  I don't want to see you any time soon.  Indianapolis, in my opinion, is a gift. You deserve to head to Altoona or Lynchburg.

daquido_bazzini wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:37 PM

So ends another (once promising) Pirate career.

There are so many of them, one cannot keep count.

I will heavily predict that he goes down to Indy till he can be dealt....late July at the most.

Huntington will settle for a Class A pitcher, and perhaps the Double A janitor.

No question....Snell's worth is small.

They'll cut this salary quicker than freshly cut sushi in the Akasaka district of Tokyo on a festive Friday eve.

tedkin43 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:39 PM

Maybe the PBC can arrange for Dr. Phil to visit Ian in Indy.

On second thought, he needs a psychiatrist not another psycho.

OK, that was too easy.

Besides, I think the Ian Snell of 2007, if he can be located, could be a tremendous assert to the team.

wakerider429 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:40 PM

I think people are being a little hard on Snell.  I wouldn't enjoy playing on a team as untalented as the Pirates.  Hopefully he'll be back because he has more talent that 90% of the pitchers in our organization.

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:41 PM

"Ian CincoTresSeis"

LOVE IT!

I disagree with Ian Duffy.  Chris was good before Jim Tracy told him to stop hitting, and learn how to hit a different way.  Ian has stunk for a while.  

Cajun Thunder wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:43 PM

I agree that Ian needs time away from the situation...and give him credit for seeing that. And knowing what it takes to accomplish that.

Unfortunately...if there is a negative vibe in that clubhouse with respect to Ian...much of it is self-inflicted. When you continually throw your teammates and coaching staff under the bus...is it really easy for them to "go to bat" for you?? DK and others have documented numerous times disagreements between Ian and his catchers and coaches.

The coaching staff has some idea of what makes a successful pitcher. To ignore that knowledge is a bad thing. I don't think that a mechanical issue is the root of his problem. Sometimes having the truth put in your face is painful to accept...but vital to become ultimately successful. Get the attitude and thought processes adjusted...and the return will be pretty quick...but frankly...if Snell is back before August 1st...I will be surprised.

tedkin43 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:43 PM

I would bet there aren't many tears being shed in the Pirate clubhouse right now. It's hard to play behind a pitcher who can't(or won't) throw strikes consistently.

wakerider429 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:43 PM

BAB

It could be said the same has happened to Snell given the poor history of Pirate coaches and other pitchers.  I'm sure his talent didn't just leave him.

junior ortiz wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:44 PM

Think of Zack Greinke.  He came back strong from the minors after dealing with some issues.  

OK, that's not going to happen.  It's nice to dream though.

Demery44 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:48 PM

Dude is a mess.

JhaugJr wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:49 PM

Ian- I recommend a furnished apartment at Pickwick Farms. Easy commute downtown.

As to VV, look out for his flat slider being turned into very long HRs. I saw him pitch in Indy last month, and Scranton hot two absolute bombs off him. He is a stopgap until they realize that Gorzy or Lincoln are better options.

Kraig wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:50 PM

Fantastic move. Snell is a headcase.

junior ortiz wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:50 PM

Maybe they should make him a short reliever.  At Indianapolis, he could come in for one inning with the bases empty each time and fire away using just two pitches.  

It's worked for lots of guys.  It could be 1987 and Jim Gott all over again.  There's lots of good relievers that were bad starters.  Guys that throw pretty hard as starters can take it up a couple of MPH when pitching one inning at a time and become real fireballers.  It's just an idea before trading him for a single-A pitcher or something.

bucskings wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:51 PM

The audio is up from Ian's comments.  It really is a good listen as to what lots of people have been saying/thinking about the situation lately.

mazfromiowa wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:51 PM

Maybe the Bucs wouldn't be so untalented if Snell pitched like he did 3 years ago.Watching him attack the water cooler,throw bats around and punch things after a shelling doesn't say much about the man,but says more about the child.IMO this guy isn't old enough for a driver's license.This isn't about the BUCS.Watching the temper tantrums I'm amazed he never broke his hand punching various things in the dugout.Time after time!!!

Balvino Galvez wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:51 PM

bazzini:

i used to live in akasaka ... small world!

yes, snell could benefit from some time in indy, out of the spotlight and all.  

yes, he could benefit from the services of a good shrink.

but what both of those have in common is that in order for them to work, snell has to *want* them to work.  at this point, he's got such a huge chip on his shoulder, i'm not even seeing the desire to succeed.

Thundercrack wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:52 PM

While I was listening to the audio link I thought that Ian sounded really relieved.  I began to think that maybe he has a good idea regarding going down.  And then he  then gives the line that people who don't play baseball don't understand and then bites Perrotto's head off.

Bob Robertson's bunt wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:54 PM

I'm normally against salary dumps...but if they can dump this clubhouse cancer's salary, do it in a heartbeat.

JuniataKid wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:56 PM

Demery: "On DK's latest quotes from Snell, I think there is something seriously wrong with him."

Couldn't agree more. Don't know if the Pirates employ the services of sports psychologists, but they need to in this case. There's something off with his perception of the world. Zach Duke went through the same number of pitching coaches and has come out of it in pretty good shape. Ian needs help. I hope he gets it.

Demery44 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:00 PM

Ian Oquendo, we hardly knew ya.

Thundercrack wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:01 PM

I usually think that the term 'veteran leadership' tends to get overblown.  But I think a verteran starter on that staff over the last couple of years may have helped Ian a lot.  He could have been an example of how to prepare for each start over the long season, how to regain your composure on the mound, how to not let a rough patch or losing streak get to you, etc...

I can't believe I will type this, but a guy like Matt Morris.

The guys on the staff this year and last are his same age and/or came up through the minors with him.

DanW wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:03 PM

@BAB

I agree that Duffy's career was derailed by Tracy's tinkering.  But to run home like he did when he was sent down indicates to me that he was very immature or a few Legos short of a castle.  Which is kind of how I feel about Ian.

Hope does spring eternal, though.  I see Duffy has played several games with the Brewers this year.

mazfromiowa wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:04 PM

Why is it that all the other starters have improved.......and then there is Ian.IAN=I Ain't Negative

Demery44 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:05 PM

Somewhere Mr. Dave Littlefield is shaking his head.

apk wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:07 PM

The audio is just amazing, particularly the way in which he handles the questions from the media. "I'm not your pal," and having no answer to the question of what he has to do in Indy if he has nothing to work on up here.

No, Ian ol' Pal, I never played Major League Baseball, but I played with plenty of guys that blamed everyone else when things went bad, then tried to heroically fall on their own sword "To help the team" before their coaches embarassed them over their failures. You are every quarterback that ever held his arm after an interception. You are every shortstop that took his glove off and shook his hand after an error. You are every runner that ever pulled up "lame" after losing a race. Good riddance to you, you incredible coward.

MEJacobsen wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:15 PM

@apk - I agree, wholeheartedly.  After listening to that audio, I am completely amazed that this kid is still on the team - that one of his teammates hasn't punched him silly yet....

One can tell, especially the "I'm not your pal," that this kid is seriously lacking in maturity.  Hopefully this is a wake up call, a call to grow up, Ian.

JuniataKid wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:15 PM

It'll be interesting to read his quotes in Indy. Should give us an indication if he's working out his issues.

JuniataKid wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:17 PM

So why not call up Gorzo? Still in the doghouse?

marty34156 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:19 PM

THIS IS THE BEST NEW I'VE HEARD IN A LONG LONG LONG TIME!!!!

marty34156 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:21 PM

His interview made me hate this punk even more.

indianafanatic wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:21 PM

Wow talk about venom.

After reading Ian's comments makes me wonder what you people do for a living.

In my profession you make a mistake people can DIE. Baseball is not an either/or situation.

I use it to diffuse the stress of my vocation, which is probably why I am able to see the forest in spite of the trees. Maybe we should collectively,as a group, step back and reflect on how our comments affect these 20 somethings we worship. Maybe Ian's difficulties can be traced to the trashing he gets from our fellow bloggers, it is obvious he has read this site. Personally, it makes me kinda nervous to be such a force of good or evil, but there it is.

That being said Mr. Snell when you get to INDY, please go across the street at Victory Field, and look up Peyton Manning and have a long chat about being in a fish bowl, or better yet go across town to Delaware St. and ask for Larry Bird and see if you can get some pointers about going from Big Fish little pond to world stage.

Finally do not rent in Pickwick Farms, they are over priced, keep your place in the burgh we hope to see you sooner rather than later

Thundercrack wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:24 PM

I thought that Gorzo looked good in short spurts up here. When he had to pitch multiple innings I thought his stuff started to regress.

Joey Bats wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:24 PM

Another "Ronnie Paulino" ! (...and as others have said, Ollie Perez,  Jose DeLeon, etc. )

Ian ...we're in LAST PLACE with you...we can just do just as well without you.  See ya, Sybil!

If you ever pitch in PNC Park again...it will be in a different uniform.

JHadar wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:24 PM

Wow, give the blog what it wants and we'll all turn out.  About the only thing that hasn't happened is someone signing on to call the front office liars for saying he'll pitch next Sunday.  It's a rare day when we all support Mr. Huntington, eh?

As much as I feel sorry for Ian, there's simply no place on the major league roster for a guy who doesn't play for the team.  The fact is that when you're good enough to play at that level, you have to be ready to live under the microscope.  As rough as he thinks he has it, it's a good thing he wasn't playing for a New York or Chicago team.  That press corps is nobody's pal.

Cave Bonifield wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:26 PM

I think it a mistake for Ian to demote himself.

He should have put himself in the bullpen and told Opie to  send Jackson down.

He would be better off working things out in the pen vs ML hitters.

Ian sends himself down.  C'mon

If you believe that one then you think we got the better of the Ramirez trade; and I don't mean Alex.

This was guardedly choreographed between all parties to save Ian's psyche.   EG:

Joe Employee-  "I resigned today."

Friend- "You mean you got fired and they let you save face".

Joe Employee-  "Yep.  That's what I get for 10 years of loyalty".

marty34156 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:27 PM

I love in the interview when John Perroto says since we never played baseball can you explain it to us. Hahahahahaha.

Yotum wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:32 PM

@ Indiana:

I understand not being hard on him, since he was always a nice guy when I talked to him at the games (both at PNC and a few times in Washington), but I just don't get his comments about "not understanding." I haven't really defended/condemned Ian, but he seemed out of line to suggest people can't understand from either (a) a sports perspective or (b) a professional perspective. I hope he works things out and comes back ready to roll.

As for worrying about the media, as an athlete (a pitcher no less), I think some assuume him to be mentally tough to have made it this far. Other may just think they're shouting in the dark. Oh well.

macsinthebox wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:33 PM

"Also, please don't speak to Brad Lincoln."

BaB's  that is classic!

@ALL, I think he's done here, that's all i have.

leadoff wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:37 PM

Snells interview sounded to me like there is a lot more to what is going on than what has been said.

Rarely does a pitcher or any player want to go down to the minors, he sounds to me like he wants to get away from something or someone.

ToddSm66 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:41 PM

Would have rather seen Gorzo get another shot than Vasquez...but whatever happened to Phil Dumatrait?  Last I heard, he had a minor set back in April.  

leadoff wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:42 PM

I wonder if that little conversation Ian had with Huntington did not have a little of trade me Neal in it?

jersey joe wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:43 PM

Indianafanatic Wrote: . Maybe we should collectively,as a group, step back and reflect on how our comments affect these 20 somethings we worship. Maybe Ian's difficulties can be traced to the trashing he gets from our fellow bloggers, it is obvious he has read this site. Personally, it makes me kinda nervous to be such a force of good or evil, but there it is

I agree.

Cave Bonifield wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:43 PM

Yotum

When Ian says that we don't understand it, what he is really saying is that HE doesn't understand why HE is being sent down, and why the fans feel about him the way they do.

It is difficult for athletes at this level to come to grips with the fact that their skills may be deteriorating.

The easiest way to deal with that is to look for reasons other than ones own skill set, for the failures.  Reasons like the external distractions that he mentions.

It is a coping mechanism that we all employ at some period of our lives.  However, few of us have to do it on such a large stage.

The good ones deal with it, adjust, and return stronger than ever.

Plenty of Hope wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:43 PM

Whoever said "it has to be hard to play on a losing team" made me go "AACCKKK."

Do you KNOW how much these guys are paid? That only requires them to give 100 percent. Many Pirates do give that.

Bizrow wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:44 PM

@Demery - Somewhere Mr. Dave Littlefield is shaking his head.

Oh, thats the rattling I heard as I was driving home

Like I said yesterday, the things that have gone on with this club, you couldn't make up if you tried.

I'm going to try that tomorrow, "Boss, I'm tired of all this (place appropriate word), send me on vacation, I need it"

Priceless blogs in here today, BTW

jersey joe wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:44 PM

                          OHLIE OHLIE OHLIES IN FREE

JuniataKid wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:46 PM

Listening to the audio, it just seems like he's got a ton of anger for the front office, the coaches, the fans, the media... Yeah, there was negativity. People watching a game don't understand how a guy with all that talent, playing the greatest game in the world, walks around with a chip on his shoulder and won't take advice on how to pitch better. Then gives "oh well" comments when he loses. Then blames the world and won't look in the mirror. How do you expect anything BUT negativity?

I just don't see him coming back to Pittsburgh. I can't imagine him losing all the baggage.

Bizrow wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:48 PM

Just a question from an inquiring mind

Is this team melting down?  I'm just asking, first Monroe, now this, what do you think our draft choices are thinking?

Hmm LSU or ????

jersey joe wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:48 PM

There once was a young lad named Ross

Tonight his good pal in right will be Moss

There will be one on the mound

The other on the green ground

For tonight we get to call both of them Boss

Flip Diggity wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:48 PM

Sounds like Ian thinks he's in control.  Taking credit for his own demotion?  That's absurd.

If he were truly in control, he'd pitch better.  That dude is lost.

I wonder if at this point he'll say anything just so the team gets rid of him.

Yotum wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:49 PM

The Rockies WERE interested. Let's propose a swap of bums:

Snell for Garrett Atkins. Maybe Snell turns it around, maybe Atkins finds his stroke and his power returns. Coule be win-win? Eh, I'm still trying to justify Atkins as a good player...

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:50 PM

            IAN CAN'T GET INTO PNC FOR FREE LIKE OHLIE, HE WOULD HAVE TO PAY THE TICKET FEE, AND THAT'S ALL RIGHT WITH ME!

SirLochsby wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:53 PM

leadoff: <he sounds to me like he wants to get away from something or someone.>

I agree.  I don't know what that is, or what it could be, but it really seems like he wanted to get away for a while.  I hope that it's not a teammate, but you know what, even if it is, you've got to be able to let it go and move on.  Ignoring someone/something that is really irritating you is tough, but 9 times out of 10, it's the best course of action.

And, thinking about indianafanatic's thoughts, I think that a professional ball-player needs to not blame the fans for his results.  True, it can be tough to listen to people boo you when you slip up, but you have to realize that these folks pay to see you perform, and when you don't perform well, they have a legitimate gripe and it's their prerogative as ticket-buyers to voice their opinions.

(And it's our prerogative as commenters on a blog to voice our opinions -- positive, negative, or indifferent -- so long as we respect each other...)

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:53 PM

Yotum

Uh, that's easy...over the last three years, Atkins has AVERAGED 25 HR/110 RBI/.305/.369 OBP.  Throw in 38 doubles a year, and 95 runs.  I understand he's not having a good year, but it isn't hard to justify him being good.

jersey joe wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:54 PM

Biz, or a smart kid might just think, Glad to see them clean dead wood.

leadoff wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:56 PM

Cleveland has the worst pitching staff around, wonder if they might be willing to part with some of that hitting they have?

Snell punched his ticket to Indy, but it was really a ticket out of Pittsburgh period.

I would not be surprised if he is traded within  a couple of weeks.

Neal does not seem to take much from players when they get under his skin.

3 of our starting staff last year is now back in the minors.

smoky burgess wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 5:58 PM

Wonder if the pitching coach in Indy has the same game plan for Ian as Kerrigan did and if he isnt happy with it whats he gonna do then? ask to go to Lynchburg? There is supposed to be consistency throughout the organization in coaching.

wakerider429 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:00 PM

Throw in Moss in that Snell for Atkins trade, and you have something.

SirLochsby wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:01 PM

Oh, and another thing...  We have no more or less power than anyone gives us.  

Sure, a lot of the folks here are the diehards (and bucco converts...  where have ye been?)  ... sorry I digressed...

Sure, a lot of the folks here are long-time, passionate fans and as such, this group tends to give the pulse of the populace in general (although no one or group of us speaks for all...  that's just an arrogant assumption if you think you do.)

Still, you can't let the mob tell you what to do.

leadoff wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:01 PM

@SirLochsby

I agree.  I don't know what that is, or what it could be, but it really seems like he wanted to get away for a while.

________________________________

I cannot find the joy in failure, too me this is failure, the Bucs need talent to mature not go the other direction.

Bizrow wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:01 PM

You know, seriously, I am seeing what earlier posters are saying, this is sad, real sad, both for PBC and for Snell.  This guy had talent, ok a nickle head, and the PBC lost a chip to either use or trade.

IMO this isn't a brilliant gutsy move by the FO, they were forced to do this by a person that needs help, not that I understand his attitude at all.

IMO everyone has a button somewhere, mgmt either couldn't find it or wouldn't.

At this level, there are a lot of prima donnas, a good FO figures them out, thats what they are paid to do.

I'll go hide under the bed while I get ripped for above

SirLochsby wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:04 PM

Bizzy --

You have a good point about the FO having a job to do, but I at least believe that the player has a job to do, too.

And no hiding under the bed --  You're tougher to see under there!

indianafanatic wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:08 PM

Sir,

Gotta respectfully disagree with you.

Have you in your profession ever had to endure such unending critiscism from people who do not do the same job as you.

I believe we all have the right to state our feelings but i think that we have gone over the top on several players with Ian Snell being the whipping boy for all the ails the Pirates.

First he hears it from his peers, his bosses such as we all do but to have the man on the street tell him he is a bum because he makes so much money and cannot deliver. And truthfully we DO NOT KNOW what it is like to be a professional athlete. We wish we could but I am sure that there are innate difficulties, that we will never understand. We may empathize but do we really want to be criticized, because it is only fair that if you are willing to pile it on you should be willing to take it also, and how many of us here are willing to do that heck we call each other nasty names when opinions differ.  

popsfan wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:11 PM

Wow.  That audio displays some pretty fuzzy thinking.  

My unsolicited and unprofessional analysis:

Ian has had it easy until now.  He's managed to get to the majors and get a big payday on the strength of  talent and anger.  Sometime soon, after a few four hour bustrips and Motel 6's, it will get hard.  He will either continue to blame anyone who doesn't stroke his ego for his mistreatment and fail in AAA or he will look at himself and ask why he has  no respect from his peers and become a man.  Option A leads to retirement after he gets his last check from this contract, Option B leads to a triumphant return to the Majors.

Everyone has to confront that particular crossroads in their lives, many choose A and spend the rest of their lives hating the world.  I wish Ian the strength to choose B.

Yotum wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:12 PM

BAB-

I remember that production--vaguely. But maybe I'm ALSO hoping the Rox are desperate enough to deal him. Worth a shot.

Wake-

Seriously, why do you hate Moss so much? It's unhealthy.

gerardsmith wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:12 PM

Hey, why all the analysis?  When AL pitchers are batting .750 against  you, there just might be a problem.  When the first time their pitcher grabs a bat this year results in a couple hits, there might be a problem.  These are Lynchburg-type problems, not Indy.  And make sure to bring along Dr. Phil when you go to the hill.  Seriously.  Sports shrinks work wonders with underachievers.  Just look at Barry Bonds!

diehard wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:16 PM

wake - In spite of the fact that Moss is a good outfielder, seems to be a smart baserunner, and - since the beginning of May - has been hitting better than most players throughout the league, in spite of pretty erratci playing time.  Okay, he doesn't have the HR's you want, I guess, but what personal issue do you have with him?   You just he has no tools, can't hit - but several people have given you the stats to disprove that, to which you never respond.

G-Man wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:16 PM

Just a thought...

Something was said by Snell the other day about bloggers. It seems some (many?) here think he was talking about the Asylum inmates. There are lots of other Pirate and baseball blogs. It may not be us he referred to. For example, Bob Smizik is blogger (we are commenters on a blog) and he has been critical of Snell and called for his demotion.

Not that it really matters, just wanted to mention that.

Paul Alexander's Man Tan wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:19 PM

snell will be swell

wheres that clown at now

17

macsinthebox wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:22 PM

"I cannot find the joy in failure, too me this is failure, the Bucs need talent to mature not go the other direction."

@ LEADOFF, I agree with your sentiment however i dont see any hope. He simply desnt get the finer points of pitching  i.e hitting your spots, changing speeds effectively, working inside and out and of course throwing strikes.

He is a relief pitcher at best, if they really want to help him they will put him in the pen and let him have a much more narrow focus.

WhyStanBelinda wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:23 PM

Ian Snell should start his own blog.  I believe it would be interesting reading.

diehard wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:24 PM

I think sending Ian was right, baseball-wise, personal issue-wise, regardless of who made the decision.  A few people have said it, and I'll say I agree - something's going on with Ian that's not quite right.  Not a maturity thing, not an attitude thing.  It really seems like something in there is misfiring.  Whatever it is, and whether he plays for us again, as a person I wish Ian the best and hope he gets this all straightened out.

KMRempel22 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:25 PM

After listening to the audio and not just reading between the lines of the printed word, it is pretty clear to me that Ian Snell needs more help (of the psychiatric kind) than a mere demotion, by his decision or the FO's notwithstanding, to Indy can accomplish.  This is a very young, immature, angry, and troubled young man, and I do hope he can see beyond the end of his own nose and allow himself to get the help he sorely needs.  This is a pretty sad situation.

And is there a full moon tonight?---the news is reporting that Michael Jackson was rushed to the hospital this afternoon in full cardiac arrest and is in a coma.  

WhyStanBelinda wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:26 PM

wow.  King of Pop Michael Jackson dead at 50.   Rest in Peace Michael.

wakerider429 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:28 PM

I'm tired of us getting these terrible prospects who are supposed to hit for power but can't once they get to the majors.  Just send Moss down to Indy with Ian and let him hit homers all day there.  He's no help here.

KMRempel22 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:31 PM

And now the update:  Michael Jackson dead at age 50.

bjm wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:32 PM

Ian should have a long talk with Maholm about how to handle yourself.  Maholm has struggled lately but has not blamed anyone but himself.

Brothers LaRoche have taken the brunt of criticism but they have not wilted like this.

Part of signing that big league contract involves dealing with pressure.

Heaven forbid he ever signs with a NY team.  Not even Nurse Cratchett could not save him then.

there's no crying in baseball.

DMac wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:33 PM

FYI....for any of you that follow the PBP...due to the 143 posts in this thread and the 44 in the pre-game lineup thread...

PBP will be in the pre-game lineup thread.

smoky burgess wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:34 PM

I know this is off topic but not only did Farrah Fawcett die today but also Michael Jackson

smoky burgess wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:35 PM

sorry guys...didnt see your posts until after mine went in

diehard wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:36 PM

wake - So your issue with Moss is soley that he's not hitting HR's, regardless of the other numbers?  (I'm really not trying to pick a fight or something, just trying to clarify)

Eight was Great! wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:37 PM

Snell started projecting out and figured 20 losses was very possible...so now it won't be...

macsinthebox wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:41 PM

FYI....for any of you that follow the PBP...due to the 143 posts in this thread and the 44 in the pre-game lineup thread...

"PBP will be in the pre-game lineup thread."

DMAC  THANX

papacoach wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:51 PM

Part of being in the spotlight that a pro player receives is dealing with all that comes with the spotlight. You get the good, adoring fans attention everywhere you go (OK maybe that part is not so good), a chance to prove yourself on a large public "stage", being famous. You also have to deal with the down side when your performance does not meet the public's expectations. If Ian cannot deal with that there are a whole bunch of occupations he can take up. Not as well paying but...

jersey joe wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 7:01 PM

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BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 7:02 PM

VV pitching tomorrow, Morton Sunday, per DK's update on the GameDay thread.

DMac wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 7:03 PM

@macs...No problem.

Again, for PBP the Ants are marching back to the pre-game lineup thread.  

Chips wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 7:05 PM

Ian Snell has thrown his last pitch for the Pirates. Bank on it.

wakerider429 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 7:08 PM

Yes, when you are brought in solely to hit home runs and drive in runs, and are terrible at both, on top of a terrible average, I don't want you on my team.  Moss doesn't give the Pirates anything they can't get trying anyone else out in the outfield.  

Dejan Kovacevic wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 7:16 PM

Not that it matters what I think, but it would seem logical to have the game-related fare go back to the game-day post. A lot more breathing room there, plus people surely will have more to say about Snell as we go along.

wakerider429 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 7:20 PM

Chips

I guarantee if he doesn't come back for the Bucs, he'll come back and haunt us on another team and just dominate us in his start against the Pirates.

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 7:21 PM

wake

You've officially earned FFP/PAMT status.  

All

======================GNIHCRAM STNA

Tor Eckman wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 7:27 PM

A couple days ago I compared Snell to Paul Wagner.   After reading this I realize I inadvertantly insulted Paul Wagner.  What an immature jackass this guy is to answer a question with "you never played baseball".  The only reason I hope he gets right is so they can trade him before he goes bad again.

Bizrow wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 7:33 PM

Sir Lochs - yup, players have a job to do, but the FO is successful only if the players are successful, the FO needs the players, not necessarily the other way around, the way MLB is today

Chips wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 7:57 PM

Wake rider, don't bet on it.

Chips wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 7:59 PM

I write the word "balls" in a post, and it gets yanked? Weak.

DMac wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 9:00 PM

LMAO....BaB...it took me a minute to figure out WTH that was!

madturk2008 wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 9:56 PM

Late to the game here but as much as Snell needed to go down and work on things (to be polite) I feel for the guy, no really this is real sad to see IMO.  First order of business should be a psychologist, maybe a private one or whatever but he really needs help.

Ian you need to understand that no player gets good vibes from the fans at all times. You will have to deal with it. At least until their or your career is over and then it still takes time. Bloggers no matter what blog it is will crucify you and any other player they don't like or feel is not doing enough, me included.

Please get help!  We know what you can do as a pitcher when your frame of mind is right.  We want you to get back there.

Well enough sap from me on this but I do hope he gets help.

G-Man wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 10:12 PM

mad -

I've poked plenty of fun and criticism at Ian Snell today and over the last two seasons. But you're right. He's a human being with a problem and I wish him well over the long haul.

First step to fixing a problem whether it's drugs, alcohol, smoking cigarettes or attitude is admitting you have a problem. So far, he won't do that and that's what makes it hard to be sympathetic. But I hope he gets his head on straight and maybe seeks some time on the analysts couch. Heck, even Tony Soprano got help.

Cajun Thunder wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Thu, Jun 25 2009 10:17 PM

If things continue as they are...what do we call Andrew McCutchen?? 2009 Rookie of the Year!

Nutting for Xmas wrote re: Pirates option Snell to Indianapolis
on Fri, Jun 26 2009 11:31 AM

@Indiana:

Have you, ever in your profession, been paid $3.2 million to suck?