Pirates vs. Indians, 6-24-09: Snell not out of rotation ... yet

oooh the bucos goin all the way do dah do dah... the bucos goin all the way all the do dah day..  here we go bucos here we go !!

Most overpaid guy

How about Zito?  126 big ones

How about Bud Selig for most overpaid?

********************

Baywatch and the PBC Asylum at PNC Park

********************

Meeting Information!

Where: PNC Park, near the Honus Wagner statue, in reasonable proximity to the Home Plate gate

When: Sunday, June 28th, 2009

I will be there by 12:30 PM in order to distribute tickets for anyone who wants to wander in a little early.  Since the game starts at 1:35 PM, I'd appreciate it if everyone could be there by 1:15 PM, but I'll not abandon stragglers.

Email me via the Avatar or at PBC.Asylum@gmail.com if you need more info.

Thanks!

LET'S GO BUCS!!!

Wow.

I'm actually kind of OK with this lineup.

"How about Zito?  126 big ones"

Uhh, didn't he win a Cy Young?

I guess when I made that statement, I should put performance in there as a factor, but then people would bring up rookie's and big contracts and not performing so again (I posted on the other thread but the ants had marched) Ryan Leaf was prolly more over paid than Ian will ever be (although looks like 'Ol Leafy squandered that money), but I just dislike Ian so much right now that I'm sticking by my statement.

Holy cow, Morgan is batting second!

Biz

Zito has actually been competent lately, though. Not worth 126, but look at DBell or Pavano. They didn't even PLAY for their money. So the team paid them, and then had to pay someone else to play in their spot.

Hadar

I don't understand. Why is someone who inherits money overpaid? Its not like inheritance is wages.  Also, why is Bill Gates overpaid? I don't believe he draws a salary at all, actually. He has a lot of money, but it is not from wages. Its from earnings on stock. And when you create a company with your own capital and effort, why shouldn't you also own that company?  Should all of the revenue go to someone else? I would say, almost de facto, that if it went to ANYONE ELSE that person would be overpaid, since it wasn't their idea nor were they the one who took the risk to create the company.

Okay, this is not really a baseball discussion. Sorry.

Good lineup so far, JR.

Brandon Moss is playing! YAY! Free Brandon Moss!  

        MOSS WILL ENSURE AN INDIANS LOSS!

        BRANDON IS NOT FROM CAMDEN!

        BMOSS LIKES TO FLOSS!

        THE GUY WE HAVE IN RIGHT WILL HAVE A BIG NIGHT!

"BRANDON IS NOT FROM CAMDEN!"

BAB,

I'm from The Dirty Jers and live about 15 minutes away from Camden.  That's a low blow man, low blow hahahahaha.

Good to see Moss's RBI double didn't earn him more time on the pine like it usually does. And wow I never thought I'd be saying that, with how critical I had been of him. Well hopefully he'll continue to make me look stupid for that criticism ;).

Why

I think we all sort of went off the tracks with the "MOST overpaid" discussion, but you are right about this: Ian is not earning his keep. He's not earning ANY keep.  I hope he gets sent down or to the pen to figure things out.  I still think he has a world of talent.

Also, sorry about Moss, but I call 'em like I see 'em. And he is not a Camden boy.

On this date in 1992...

June 24, 1992: John Gotti begins serving his life sentence at the US Penitentiary in Marion Illinois.

Baywatch Jr. was  2 years, 43 days old.

BAB,

Now that I'm thinking about it, I'd rather have a guy be overpaid and not play (Re: Bell/Pavano) than one who does play and performs awfully.

At least if they're not playing they can't hurt the team and with no salary cap they don't hurt anything with their salary.

There's another reason why Snell is the most overpaid human ever.  He did nothing to earn it and is now hurting the team b/c of strait awful performance.

While I still think that Morgan needs to be pushed toward the back of the lineup, at least JR isn't starting 4 off of the bench. Zack's pitch to contact style requires a solid defense.

Duke didn't put up one of his better games his last time out, but he only gave up 3 runs in 6 innings, and we should have won.

I'll be at the game tonight, so I hope that the Zack attack is back on track.

@BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Morning links: Catching up with Pedro

on Jun 24, 2009 2:35 PM

Why Roberto

Pavano's line will be 6.1 IP, 6 H, 4 BB, 3 ER, 106 Pitches

Just as fun, let's press "Random Lineup Selector"

____________

The line-up you listed would be reason enough to boycott that game.

Bay-Say what???? What brought that on?

Morgan still batting second and Adam still batting 4th.

I would switch Jack with Morgan and Adam with either JJ or (hang on a sec I have to see who is playing today) Moss yes that's it that is what I would do.  Nothing against Adam but he hits better in other spots.  

BAB -- Of course my main point was that we're jumping on a figure of speech as if it were literal, and the reason my early remarks were on Bell, Meares, and others were to advance the point that this is not the only time this club has grossly overpaid for an underperformer.  

All sorts of hairs to split if you want to talk about sheiks or Gates.  We'd have to begin by defining payment, then overpayment, and get into a long convoluted discussion about work and value added, and contribution to society, and corporatism, and the little guy and try to keep politics and religion out of it.  It would be a great discussion, but not for this forum.  

Anyway, that's the spirit in which I offered the argument.  Agreeing with the basic premise (the Pirates have grossly overpaid Snell) but adding to it (so what's new, it's the Pirates) and then furthering it with a larger generality (there are lots of overpaid people out there relative to what they've actually done.  {and I suppose you could you argue that Gates and the Sheiks have made contributions the same way that you could argue that Snell had a good year and retains major league pitching skills}) but it's all part of passing a few moments in baseball conversation -- talking to friends and making new ones.  Nothing really earth shattering here.

Re - Zito, yeah, I guess he's doing ok this year.

I don't think Ian is overpaid though

32.MM = 400,000 for loss so far

1.6 MM per win

And

$2.45 per excuse, and remember, this is only June, he has lots of time to come up with new ones

Prediction - Moss goes deep tonight, then gets benched till Saturday, it will be a shot over section 143...

Adam does hit better in other spots, but who do we bat cleanup in the meantime?  Maybe flip-flop Andy and Adam...?

Most overpaid, I gotta agree with Pavano and his time with the Yankees

Re-Zito and Cy Young, that was before the big contract wasn't it?

No draft signings again today, wonder whats going on?

IMO the worst part of overpaying Snell is that usually the Pirates don't pay anyone at all. But over the last few years they've paid a few guys Snell who just fal otu stinks, Capp's and his era of 5 or 6 something wahtever it is nowadays, McLouth who has since been shipped out of town, Doumit whose played 12 games since getting his contract, and Maholm who hasn't been the same this year as last. Thats the way Bob!!!

biz

"Re-Zito and Cy Young, that was before the big contract wasn't it?"

Yes the Cy Young came when he was the A's number 3 starter.

Marty

You forgot one, Matt Morris and his $10 mil. contract. Or were you just doing people who were on this years starting roster?

Alright so Moss gets the start, but I won't be happy unless he starts tomorrow too, even if he has a bad day.

I'm glad to see Babe Ruth is playing in right field tonight. If Duke gives up 5 runs or less, Babe Ruth's presence will ensure a Pirates victory.

Sorry for the sarcasm. The complaints about Moss not playing more get tiring even though I like Moss. I also get tired of the Nutting bashing, the JR bashing, the FO bashing, etc. I can be just as critical as the next person but some people on this site seem to completely lose their perspective.

enough said. Maybe I should add that I'm in a rotten mood at the moment!

From a PBC aspect of overpaying I gotta say Derreck Operation Shutdown Bell with Burnitz a distant second.  Mears got hurt and it was a 3 year deal or so

I'm still trying to figure out if the Iranians fixed the pierogies race last night.  ;-)

CA Pirate

Pure and simple, the guy deserves a shot, especially when he is apparently in a groove, and he is just not getting it.

buc fan

Man how could I forget Matty Mo!?!?! But in Bob's defense we weren't the ones who signed him to that contract, but that still doesn't explain why we traded for him!

@BucFanInCT - re - Morris

Well we didn't sign him as previously posted, and actually that was a great trade, cost us 10MM but also it helped littlefield out the door, well worth any price, IMO

You know looking back at our history, you couldn't make some of these things up that our Buccos have done.

@CA Pirate - re - perspective

I understand what you are saying, but sometimes I'm on the complete opposite side from you, sometimes the unbridled optimism of some posters get to me, know what I mean, no offense intended to anyone, but too sugary ; }

This isn't someone who's overpaid, but imagine if we had given Gorzo a big contract after his 14-10 season. He could easily be on this list if we had.

Re: Zito

My point is that he was lights out and won a Cy Young and then got the 126 and flopped.

With Ian, he went 14-11 w/ a 4.74 ERA in 06 and then 9-12 w/ a 3.76 ERA in 07 and then got a contract and then went 7-12 w/ a 5.42 ERA and now this season is 2-8 w/ a 5.36 ERA.

Tis all.

biz

"Well we didn't sign him as previously posted, and actually that was a great trade, cost us 10MM but also it helped littlefield out the door, well worth any price, IMO"

I agree 100%, even though it was a awful awful trade.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

"You know looking back at our history, you couldn't make some of these things up that our Buccos have done."

Once again 100% correct.

@ bucfaninCT

Maybe that's why he can go down to Indy and Ian can't (even though he has an option left).  Mgt. feels they have to justify that contract so they can't send him down.  They need to do something though b/c they can't keep trotting him out there every 5th day.  It's got to stop sometime.

Maybe it's that I'm more of a Gorzo fan, but he needs to be up right now.  

Rotation should be:

1) Maholm

2) Duke

3) Ohlendorf

4) Gorzelanny

5) Morton

Obviously with the way the days play out and other factors (like Gorzo and Morton jumping in) those won't be the slots, but that's how I see the staff right now (even if Paul is in a bit of a funk...he'll pull through).

Why

I agree 100% with what you said about they feel they need to justify Ian's contract. I don't understand why they won't try him in the pen. Most teams feel that he is a bullpen person, except us obviously. But i feel this would help him more. He would be able to channel everything into one or two innings rather than try to spread it all out over the course of a full game.

 CA Pirate,

   No one here is implying that Moss is Babe Ruth. But considering he was a key piece in trading Bay and the guys you run out there instead of him when he seems to be finding his stroke are Delwyn Young (absolutely horrific in the field) and NyMo (28 year old with no experience or track record and has hit .220 in 2 months after a hot start)  makes you wonder why we traded for the guy. He is decent defensively, hustles and has a good track record of progression through the minors. We gave LaRoche all of lasts year second half and the first couple of weeks this year of being the worst regular in the majors to find himself.

 Gorzo needs to be in Snells spot until Snell goes back tot he minors and gets it together. If not the FO can never talk about accountability with a straight face again.  

Bizrow,

I understand. I don't really expect to see winning baseball in Pittsburgh for several years although some year everything might click just right. The Pirates just don't have enough talent in the top minors to get them over the hump. Only by accumulating a lot of talent in the low minors which slowly works up to Pittsburgh do I see them become a winning team. That is why the main thing I care about is how well the front office recognizes and acquires talent by whatever means.

DK,

Where the brief little typed in snipets you usually include in the game thread?

Dude, we live and die by those.

C'mon.

;-)

Wow, Choo batting cleanup for the Tribe.

Looks like they are getting a taste of what it is like to have Bob Nutting as your owner.

For what we have, I think this is lineup as it should be until Doumit comes back.  Then he hits 4th and Adam, Andy, and Brandon move down a spot.  I also think maybe putting Sanchez 2nd, Andy 3rd, and Nyjer 7th may be a thought.

Why - I'm admittedly not a Gorzo fan these days.  I think he showed in his relief appearances, like Snell, he's only really good for 2-3 innings.  At least Karstens can give you 5 solid.

                            DUKES GOT HIS JUKE

Myrow stats

web.minorleaguebaseball.com/.../stats.jsp

Myrow hit .370 in June and .310 in May,but is also listed as a DH.

This is Myrow's 4 th team.SD,Yankees,and Dodgers

If I were JR, with Zach pitching, this would be my lineup tonight.

1. Cutch

2. Freddie

3. Andy

4. Adam

5. Moss

6 Jaramilo

7. Wilson

8. Duke

9. Morgan.

That allows JR to keep Cutch and morgan together ( an absurd idea I have yet to see pay dividends. Zach can hanadle a bat pretty weel, and personally, I don't think there is a reason not to switch the last 2..

I was thinking that Snell to the pen was a good option with either sending him down or trading him.  Upon future thought the pen would not be good for us since he can't keep his head together.  You need a stronger mental make-up for the pen than you do for starting don't ya think?

Myrow plays first, a 33 year old career minor leaguer. Nothing to get excited over unless you are living in Indianapolis

@diehard

I too would rather have Karstens start until a decent one can be found.  He does give you 5 solid innings at the least and on occasion one or two more.

I think a big question is if Snell would garner more of a return in a trade as a poor starter, or if we put him in the pen and he has mild success. What do you guys think?

I wanted to point out, again, since it seemed to go unnoticed last night:

Karstens has been very good since the demotion.  His season ERA is 4.80 (of course, still better than Snell's) but his ERA in the pen:

1.86. 9.2 IP, 10 H, 5 BB, 2K, Opp BAA .263.  

Now obviously, some of those numbers are not great, but the ERA sure is. Especially when you consider he gave up the first run in his first appearance in the 'pen. The second one? Second appearance in the 'pen.  He has been SOLID ever since.

      IF WE DON'T GET A QS FROM DUKE, HE'LL FACE A STERN REBUKE!

Brian Myrow!!!

All right Neal!!!!

Just one more step toward a championship caliber club in Pittsburgh!

WHOOOOOOOO!

32 year old journeyman minor leaguer.

LOL.

IAN'S NAME OUGHT TO BE MINDY GET HIM A ONE WAY TICKET TO INDY

BAB - Karstens has really been solid out of the pen, and I thin kin the long run that may be his spot.  But I'd rather see him start than Gorzo.

I don't know what kind of self respecting Pirate fan would root against Ian Snell.

It's as if many want him to fail.

It's downright appalling, despicable, and snarky.

IAN IS NOT VERY SPARKY, TO HIM WE HAVE TO BE SNARKY

NH - You're misrepresenting what people are saying about Snell.  Saying he should be moved to the bullpen or sent down to the minors isn't rooting against him.  We want to see what Ian Snell can realy pitch like, but not at the expense of the team.  

Hello all,

John K-

IMO, always more value as a starter unless its a closer or LH specialist, Snell is neither.

NuHo-

I didn't see the press release where Myrow was hailed as a season changer, but NH has seemed to do well in the minor deals, Diaz, Jaramillo, Jackson, etc...

NH looks diminutive and almost childish in that picture.

diehard

Agreed.   I also prefer Karsty over Gorzo.

NuHo

I hope that people are just overstating their impatience. Its not that we (or at least I) want him to fail, just that I want them to make a move on him because I think he's not currently capable of contributing in a starting capacity.  As I've said, my choice would be busting him down to about A ball and making him work his way back.

I hope my comments are only partially snarky.  Maybe just arky.

Calvin Anderson of the West Virginia Power singled in the winning run in the ninth to help the  North to rise to a victory in the SAL all star game on Tuesday.  

kybuc

Add Delwyn Young in there too.  Not that I think he can be a starter, but he's a nice bat to have around.

@diehard wrote re: Pirates vs. Indians, 6-24-09: Snell not out of rotation ... yet

on Jun 24, 2009 5:16 PM

"  We want to see what Ian Snell can realy pitch like, but not at the expense of the team. "

_____________

Maybe we need to pay him about 40% more so we can raise the payroll maybe that will make him pitch better.

DK

Fair enough. I'm not exactly a tall guy myself. Just thought the picture was kinda funny.

Yes!  DK includes a photo of his favorite "Pirates Charities" sign, under the guise of showing Jeff Karstens running a drill.

   DUKE WILL BE SWELL!

SNELL WILL PUT US THROUGH MORE HE**!

Did I read something about a gathering this Sunday?  My wife and I are planning to come up and go to Saturday and Sunday's games...3rd trip to PNC...I plan on arriving with the Bucs on a 3 game winning streak!  I feel a big night for the Moss-tery Machine!

Just a few hours in the car to hand over some hard earned cash to the evil Nutting Empire!  Can't wait!

Personally, I'd like to see Ian take a trip west, see if that can wake him up or shake him up or tick him off.

Much like JR, he seems too laid back, oh well, I got lit up again.

Took me a long time to grow up, sometimes I think I still haven't

Moss goes taters tonight

From previous thread:

Jose Pagan wrote: >>I am tired, personally, of picking games to go to where the visiting club is one I really want to see.<<

Living out of town, I don't select games based on teams, just on when I'll be visiting. That said, I really empathize with that statement. The team fans should be picking games to see is the Pirates, forget who is in the grey unis on any given night.

Well said, Jose. You get a Hap Cap for that.  __/_H_\

FormerSoxFan -

>>I'm actually kind of OK with this lineup.<<

Rumor has it, JR found this lineup scribbled on the back of an envelope in the handwriting of Abe Lincoln. JR had used up all the other mathematical permutations and combinations. :-)

kybuc -

Yes, there are all sorts of Asylum inmate gatherings this weekend. Check the threads for JJ's and SirLochsby's posts. Baywatch and his wife are in town for several days celebrating their 20th anniversary. SirL purchased a block of tickets for Sunday's game and everyone is to meet at the Honus Wagner Statue around 12:30. JJ is hosting a Gathering at Vincent's in Greentree on Saturday at 1 o'clock.

Again, check the various threads for details.

As some mentioned how clear it is why the pirtaes picked up a firstbaseman for Indy today, got me to thinking that also it speaks more to making a move now so fast after pearce comes up wondering if they know, no one is going back down?

That indicates that maybe one of those guys covering the first base bag might be moving on.

PoH -

Here's a Hap Cap for you just because I miss seeing you here of late. :-(        __/_H_\

@Bay Jr. - "On this date in 1992... June 24, 1992: John Gotti begins serving his life sentence at the US Penitentiary in Marion Illinois.

Baywatch Jr. was  2 years, 43 days old."

Let's see, Gotti pitched for the Giants, didn't he? Or was that John's little brother, Jim Gotti ... Oh (smacks his forehead), that was Jim Gott!

Gigantic Greetings one and all, with up-to-the-minute posts G-Man, Bizzy, Dem, KyBuc (keeps fallin' down, another place another town), FatsHenry, BAB (PLEASE remind them that your BAB and I'm Bay!), DK (really on the spot today, thanks for the report on your interview with Huntington, re: Snell ... Man, did Kerrigan dwarf NH!), Mad, Maz, Diehard, John K (the non-Steppenwolf one), Doc, JJ, CA Pirate, PghboyinCA, Buc_Fan_in_CT, WhyDidnt, Marty, JHadar, SirLoxofBee, DMac, FormerSoxFan, Irate, and Barsk.

We follow the Yellow Brick Road, on our veritable sojourn to Mecca, otherwise known as the Burgh tomorrow ... Woo-Hoo!

Oh come on now, Don't tell me you never went to a game to see sandy or Bob or juan or fergy pitch?  Vising pitchers have always had an interest in the fan base, other position players as well.

Bay

I usually don't even realize they're talking to me when they say "Bay" because I'm trained to know that's you!  Will try to stay on top of it when possible. Have a safe trip up to the Burgh!

In other news, Brad Lincoln making his AAA debut tonight. Go Indy! Yesssssssssssssssssss!

@NH, Snell has already failed, i just wish him gone

JJ

No doubt about it. We went to see Greg Maddux every time he came in for years. I was convinced (and still am) that he was the best pitcher I'd ever seen.

I also remember going out for Johan Santana, Mark Mulder (wow that one feels like it was a LONG time ago) and Ichiro.  

That's part of the fun of the game. I drove to New York from Pittsburgh to see one of Tim Lincecum's first career starts.

JJ...re pickup of Myrow.

I don't think it is a sign of anyone disappearing at 1st base. Indy has a distinct lack of warm bodies to play the field right now. Within the last week...I think they've had about 5 different guys playing 1st base...including Luis Cruz...who has played just about every position except pitcher and catcher in the last few weeks.

Also...Nats have designated Kip Wells for assignment.

sports.espn.go.com/.../story

JJ @ BAB

"Oh come on now, Don't tell me you never went to a game to see sandy or Bob or juan or fergy pitch?  Vising pitchers have always had an interest in the fan base, other position players as well."

"No doubt about it. We went to see Greg Maddux every time he came in for years. I was convinced (and still am) that he was the best pitcher I'd ever seen.

I also remember going out for Johan Santana, Mark Mulder (wow that one feels like it was a LONG time ago) and Ichiro.  

That's part of the fun of the game. I drove to New York from Pittsburgh to see one of Tim Lincecum's first career starts."

_______________________

Be careful if you don't agree you may be called some awful name.

madturk

I don't even understand your comment. JJ wasn't directing his at me, I just happened to agree with him.

makes sense Thunder, but it does imply pearce is not in the plans to go back there.

"No doubt about it. We went to see Greg Maddux every time he came in for years. I was convinced (and still am) that he was the best pitcher I'd ever seen."

@ BaB's couldnt agree more, I saw Maddux throw a complete game with just over 70 pitches, Snell couldnt complete 3 innings with 70 pitches:(

                         HEAR YE HEAR YE HEAR YE

                   PRE BAY GAME DAY GATHERING

                    VINCENTS PIZZA OF GREENTREE

                           333 MANSFIELD AVE.

                                412-921-8811

                  www.vincentsgreentree.com

                           June 27th.  1:00 P M

                        Please RSVP by a post

                              or email me at

                           tjfran@comcast.net

They need to know how many servers to bring in for the

upstairs  so a response sure would make them happy

Did Monroe clear waivers, accept assignment, go to Indy?

@BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates vs. Indians, 6-24-09: Snell not out of rotation ... yet

on Jun 24, 2009 6:43 PM

madturk

I don't even understand your comment. JJ wasn't directing his at me, I just happened to agree with him.

_________

JJ comment was not directed at anyone so I thought he was referring to some earlier posts from today and late yesterday?

I do happen to agree with you both.

BAY -- Have a safe and pleasant trip.  Wish I could have scheduled mine to match.  I had a great time even though I only got to see one game -- McCutcheon's debut.  You'll find the folks there are great people.  And happy anniversary.

Just watched the interview prior to tonights game with Snell.  The man still does not get it.  I think he trys to say the right thing but it always comes out as other isses and other people ideas and not just his pitching.

The Pirates Pregame just had an interview w/ Ian Snell.  He said, among other things:

" If we hadn't given up that HR last night, things might have been different."  That is, if Meek hadn't screwed up?

In response to a comment that in some games this year he had pitched well enough to win, he said, "I only play one position."   Paraphrasing:   I can only do what I can do.  I can't play the other positions.

Comments about Kerrigan, to the effect that Kerrigan is the boss and he (Snell) has to do what Kerrigan says, as if he would rather do something else.  

I probably haven't given the best impression of this interview, but I can tell you very clearly my opinion:  he has to go.  He still does not accept responsibility.  He has to go.

Sometimes no matter how good your own team is the extra incentive to make a particular game is the opposing team or player(s).

Tonight is miked night with Morgan...

--Pardon the brief interruption--

********************

Baywatch and the PBC Asylum at PNC Park

********************

Meeting Information!

Where: PNC Park, near the Honus Wagner statue, in reasonable proximity to the Home Plate gate

When: Sunday, June 28th, 2009

I will be there by 12:30 PM in order to distribute tickets for anyone who wants to wander in a little early.  Since the game starts at 1:35 PM, I'd appreciate it if everyone could be there by 1:15 PM, but I'll not abandon stragglers.

Email me via the Avatar or at PBC.Asylum@gmail.com if you need more info.

Thanks!

LET'S GO BUCS!!!

--Back to baseball... as you were...--

@Capn wrote re: Pirates vs. Indians, 6-24-09: Snell not out of rotation ... yet

on Jun 24, 2009 7:02 PM

"Comments about Kerrigan, to the effect that Kerrigan is the boss and he (Snell) has to do what Kerrigan says, as if he would rather do something else."

______

Very nice recap, The above was real intresting when he said Kerringan wants him to work off of another pitch (forgot which one) and Snell wants to work off of his fastball. Sounded like he will do what he wants to do no matter what they want.

re: madturk's note, <Tonight is miked night with Morgan...>

Please, someone take the lead and post some of the stuff that comes out of his mouth tonight...  Given what DK and others have written about him, it should be priceless.

who's idea is it too keep positioning Morgan in left center, WWWAAAYYY off the left field line, has that EVER BLEEPING worked?  & the lineup isn't WORKING....JR has no creative bone in his BLEEPING body.

#1.Cutch

#2 Freddie

#3 jarmillio

#4 Adam L

#5 Moss

#6 Andy L

#7 Wilson

#8 morgan

#9 Pitcher

Good Evening Fellow Inmates!

Looking forward to another evening of Pirates baseball on the computer and chatting with you all periodically!

JHadar...the Pirates have 10 days to dispose of his contract by trade, waivers, release, etc after being designated for assignment. In checking the CBA...the Pirates do not need to place Monroe on waivers until day 8...which would be Saturday...so we won't necessarily hear anything until Monday.

Hellloooooooooo....sorry, it was a busy day.  But I'm ready for a game!

First pitch to Carroll is a strike, the 2nd misses low, 1-1 count.  And he strokes one to the LF corner, coming into 2nd with the leadoff double.  

Sizemore takes, ball 1.  Strike at the knees, 1-1 count.  Fly ball to shallow RF...Moss makes the catch for the out and Carroll holds at 2nd.  1 away.

Martinez takes low, ball 1.  Outside, 2-0.  SWING and miss, 2-1.  Misses, 3-1.  And he draws the walk.  

Choo takes a strike at the knees, 0-1.  Low and away, 1-1 count.  Foul tipped, 1-2 count.  Grounded foul.  Grounded sharply to Adam who throws to Jack covering the bag at 2nd for 1 out, but the throw to Zach covering 1st is late.  

Runners at the corners, 2 away.

DeRosa steps in and they throw to 1st.  FIrst pitch to DeRosa is in there, strike 1.  Just misses, 1-1 count.  Fouled off to the right side, 1-2.  Fly ball to CF but AMac gets there to make the catch and retire the side.

No score for the Tribe, Pirates coming up...

Capn -

Thanks for the excerpts from Snell's interview. Here are my own embellishments:

SNELL: "If we hadn't given up that HR last night, things might have been different."

G-MAN: Yes, Bucs would be tied after 9. And if you hadn't given up those two walks after the triple, Bucs would have won in 9.

SNELL: "I only play one position."

G-MAN: Then get off the mound and go play it. Because it's sure not "pitcher."

CAPN: Comments about Kerrigan, to the effect that Kerrigan is the boss and he (Snell) has to do what Kerrigan says, as if he would rather do something else.

G-MAN: How about winning a game? That would be "something else."

I'd still like to know the Pirates reasoning for being quick on the trigger to send down Gorzo for non performance...yet they don't do the same for Snell. Doesn't seem very consistent...and wonder when the Pirates management is going to seriously hold players accountable outside of extremely obvious cases...like Monroe??

Re: Ian being Ian

Put me firmly in the disappointed pile.

I'd kinda be okay with Ian being Ian if he could pitch like Manny could hit.  (even disregarding Manny's issues with his ovaries...)  But seeing how Ian's pitching looks more like Manny's _pitching_...  I just don't think the guy deserves to be on an MLB roster anymore.

Hey, everyone who was telling me at the beginning of the year that Ian was just a whining brat who throws his teammates and anyone else he can find under whatever moving vehicle he can find?  You were right.  I still hope someday, somehow, he can figure it out, and that he can realize that sometimes it really is HIS fault that the batters are teeing off on him, but sadly, he seems to fit the "oblivious" mold just a bit too well.

SirL -

Thanks for the info on Sunday. I'll see you at the statue at or before 12:30. Although if I see PoH coming first, I may have to hide behind it.

As for "miked night," I would have loved for Snell to have been miked DURING the game considering how outrageous his interviews go.

G-Man:

<G-MAN: Then get off the mound and go play it. Because it's sure not "pitcher.">

*LM-GM-O*

Thank you, sir, for the best laugh I've had all day.

Snell's constant verbal directing of blame away from himself reminds me a lot of Jim Tracy. On the rare occasion the team won, Tracy took all the credit. When they lost, it was always the players not doing their job.

Ian needs outta here. Even Stan Savran and others said, "Its always some other reason, never him".

Let him go, he really is a headcase, don't think that interview could have made it any more clear.

Mad...it was his changeup I believe, that Snell was referring to not wanting to work on.  Whatever...he really doesn't get it, does he?

AMac steps in and takes a called strike 1.  Misses, 1-1.  Swings and misses, 1-2.  Fouled away.  Up and in, 2-2 count.  Popped up near SS...Valbuena makes the catch.  1 away.

Nyjer shows bunt pulls it back , but it's a called strike, 0-1.  Grounded to 2nd, throw to 1st.  2 away.

Freddy takes ball 1.  Strike at the letters, 1-1 count.  Low, 2-1.  Changeup drops for a strike, 2-2 count.  Fouled away.  Nice!  He shoots one right back up the middle and into CF for a single.

Adam takes, ball 1.  Throw to 1st.  Fouled away, 1-1.  Yes!  He grounds it back up the middle for a single!  SWEET!  Freddy rounds 2nd and is safe at 3rd.

Runners at the corners, 2 away.

Andy looks at a called strike, 0-1.  Catches the outside corner, 0-2.  Way outside and in the dirt, but blocked by Shoppach, 1-2 count ot Andy.  He swings and misses for strike 3.  Rats.

No score and we go to the 2nd.

SirL -

>>Thank you, sir, for the best laugh I've had all day.<<

Wow, sounds like you've had a bad day. ;-)

Sir, what do you mean since the beginning of the season?

Thunder,

They are paying Ian more money. Really want to see him succeed.

I intended to go to game tonight, but long day at work.  I'm just leaving.  Darn!!

By the way, I really like the line-up John Russell put out there tonight.  I think it's our best lineup until Doumit gets back.

Good job, JR!

Peralts leads off with a single up the middle on the first pitch.

Valbuena steps in.  Zach throws to 1st.  First pitch to Valbuena is an inside strike, 0-1.  Fouled away, 0-2.  Chopped to 2nd...Freddy to Jack to get the lead runner, relay back to Adam, but the throw is late and Valbuena is safe.  1 away.

Shoppach swings and misses, 0-1.  Outside, 1-1.  Just misses, 2-1.  SWING and miss, 2-2.  Just misses outside again, 3-2.  Swings and misses for strike 3.  2 away.

Pavano swings and misses, strike 1.  Swings and misses, 0-2.  Up and away, 1-2.  Soft liner on the infield...Andy makes the catch for the out.

GMAN, it was funny

Moss with another good at bat.  Forcing Pavano to throw so many pitches, I like it.  And, of course, the leadoff walk. Go Brandon Go! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

G-Man, very good!  I wish I had remembered more for you to work with.  It was an infuriating interview.

Maybe JR using Moss in the role that he has been in has actually helped him...

Anyone have Clutch's numbers for BA with RISP?

I know I'm no JAL, but just the same, "I'm off for a bit."

DMac --  Keep the pxp going strong!

Hang in there, team!  (And G-Man IS funny!)

Pedro has his first error. He also has another strikeout. 0-1.

Brad Lincoln has a lead, 2-0. No word on if he even understands what that is, since he's had about two leads over the past year.  He walked ex-Buc farmhand Rich Thompson to start off his AAA career. He has two strikeouts through 1.1 innings (man on second after a double right now).  Oh yeah, and he singled, but a man was thrown out at the plate on the play to end the inning, so he didn't get to steal any bags yet.

The Mosstery Machine!

Duke has his Juke!

Cutch is Clutch!

I know it good to complaing like this but this game reminds me of a lyric out of the Late James Brown song, living in America..

"Station to Station"..  

Thats for you Bay.

Pavano is Ian Snell-esque.  Walk guys. Then throw strikes, and watch the ball get swatted around.

Cutch is CLUTCH...i hear his jersey's on back order already, LOL

WhyStan

Now I not only have that song in my head, I'm envisioning the Apollo Creed (Carl Weathers) dance with the silly outfit before the Drago fight. Nice.

Catching up again .... always catching up.

DMac -- Thanks for the PBP.

Capn -- Appreciate your comments on the interview and have to agree wth general impression that his view of himself does not match his performance on the field.  Too bad.

BAB -- Thanks for the Monroe info.

General Observation -- when Duke is in the lineup, hitting the pitcher 8th may be a very good strategy.   Off to a lead tonight, let's just run it up -- get out of famine mode and back into feast.

Crasnick already has Cutch as the #2 rookie:

sports.espn.go.com/.../story

and we need an automobile surname for Cutch.  I'm thinking Porsche SUV, but I'd be wrong here.

For those of you not watching the game, I would say that the called strike 3 on Adam was pretty inside. Pavano got a call on that one.

Sigh.

Adam, I could've used your help on the whole "defending you" argument right there. Could've busted this thing open...

Moss leads off and has worked to a 3-2 count.  And he draws the leadoff walk.  

Jaramillo steps in and take a strike, 0-1.  Takes again, and it's 0-2.  Chopped foul.  And he hits a bullet back through the middle for a single.  Moss stops at 2nd.

2 on, no one out.

Jack takes a called strike, 0-1.  SWEET!  He flares one to CF and it drops for a single!  

Bases loaded.

WOOHOOO!  Zach rips a single to RF on the first pitch!  Moss scores!  That's Zach's 3rd RBI this season.

AMac swings and foul tips it into the glove, strike 1.  WOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO!  He chops one to the left side and it bounces through to LF for a single!  Jaramillo scores and Beasley waives Jack home and the throw is offline and he scores!  Zach stops at 2nd.

Runners at 1st and 2nd, no one out.

Nyjer shows bunt, takes a called strike, 0-1.  Takes and it catches the inside corner, 0-2.  Lifted to CF, Sizemore makes the catch for the out.  Zach has to hold at 2nd.  1 away.

Freddy takes ball 1.  Takes and it's low, 2-0.  Catches the inside corner, 2-1.  He reaches out and flares one to CF for a single.  Zach is held at 3rd.

Bases loaded, 1 away.

Adam takes a strike on the inside corner, 0-1.  Fouled away, 0-2.  Grounded foul to the right side.  And he looks at a called strike 3 on the insdie corner...and he tells the ump what he things of that call.  2 away.

Andy takes, ball 1.  Misses low and away, 2-0.  Called strike on the inside corner, 2-1.  Fouled straight back, 2-2 count.  Upstairs and the count goes full.  Grounded to SS...throw to 1st for the 3rd out.

But they score first. and lead, 3-0 Bucs!  

& the LA LAMO Brothers strike again...yippie

3 ks through two innings for Brad Lincoln.  

C'mon LaRoche boys. Gotta do better than that.

            DID YOU SEE THE CLUTCH GET IN GEAR

            THE UMP GAVE HIM A WORD OF CHEER

            He drove in two more

            The fans gave a roar

            WE ARE ALL GLAD HE MADE IT THIS YEAR

And McCutchens vehicle should be the Maybach

Capn, JJ & SirL -

Re "funny": Shucks ma'am and gents. You're making me blush. Tell you what, if the Baywatch outing game is not exciting next Sunday, I'll do my standup routing for everyone. ;-)

(Did everyone just cross themselves and say a prayer? I heard that!)

Bases loaded for Garrett Jones. BIG opportunity to give Brad Lincoln a nice cushion. Nobody out.

So Burgh -- Gimme a break, you're upset when we lose I understand, but we just took a 3-run lead and that's what you comment on, inning over!?  Are you rooting for this team or just against the players?

matt...I agree.  And he doesn't argue often.

BaB...I was just glad he didn't ground into the DP.  ;-)

Carroll leads off and takes a called strike, 0-1.  Misses, 1-1 count. Takes another called strike, 1-2.  And he goes down swinging, 1 away.

Sizemore takes, ball 1.  Grounds the next one to the right side, Adam fields and throws to Zach for the out.  2 away.

Martinez takes, ball 1.  Grounded to the right side, Freddy fields, throws to Adam.  Side retired.

Tony Sanchez went 2 for 4 and threw out 2 baserunners at State College.  

DUKE HAS HIS 8-PITCH INNING JUKE!

Maybe this is me, but the Indian lineup, outside of 3 guys, doesn't not scare me.  I hope this isn't a model that NH is using.  

Tony Sanchez doubles and scores, 1-2 so far for the Spikes.  

Jones hits into the costly 1-2-3 double play.  Kratz walks, so they're reloaded with two outs.

DMac

The numbers you give for Sanchez are for last night.

Wow, another inside pitch called strike 3. Threre's no way that's a strike. The catcher had to frame it about 6 inches.

Moss swings and misses, strike 1.  Grounds to 1st for the 1st out.  

Jaramillo takes a called strike, 0-1.  Misses, 1-1.  Takes and it's in there, 1-2.  Misses, 2-2 count.  Misses, 3-2.  And he takes a called strike 3.  Same pitch that they called Adam out on.  2 away.

Jack takes, ball 1.  Grounds the next one to SS, throw to 1st.  Side retired.

Bucs still lead, 3-0 as we head to the 3rd.

@SoutherBurgh...Adam DOES lead the team in RBI's and Andy is 2nd...

JHADAR, I hated the LaRoche trade back in the day, we had to give up  Mike Gonzo (serviceable reliever) & at the time, our best SS/2B prospect in Lilibredge, the only thing he does well is field his position, his swing is worse then "PEDRO CERRANO's in major league,

The Indians lead 4-0, Lincoln headed back to the hill for the third, after this play:

"Hector Gimenez singles on a ground ball to left fielder Rich Thompson. Luis Cruz scores. Jeff Salazar scores. Erik Kratz out at 3rd on the throw, left fielder Rich Thompson to catcher Paul Hoover to second baseman J. Furmaniak to first baseman Andy Tracy to second baseman J. Furmaniak to third baseman Terry Tiffee."

I am a PIRATE fan from birth, & am just hoping the impending birth of my first child, will see a winning Pirate team in his/her lifetime...

So. Burgh -- OK, I understand ... but is a long time to hold a grudge.  

southern

If you are a Pirates fan from birth, I wish you'd not identify as a Yankees fan in your profile.  As for Adam, he's one of the best bow hunters on the team.

Ooops -- just blew a fuse in the basement and company coming -- hope to get back by the end of the game.

I lost track of innings, I think...it's the 4th inning.

Choo singles to LF to open the 4th.  

DeRosa takes a called strike, 0-1.  Misses, 1-1.  Fouled away, 1-2.  Upstairs, 2-2.  Misses inside, 3-2 count.  Fouled away.  Fouled away.  Throw to 1st.  And he drives a single to LF.  Choo goes to 3rd, the throw goes to 3rd, holding DeRosa to a single.

Runners on the corners, no one out.

Peralta takes a called strike, 0-1.  SWING and miss, 0-2.  Misses, 1-2.  Fly ball to shallow CF...AMac calls Freddy and Jack off and makes the catch for the out.  And it's not deep enough for Choo to tag and score from 3rd  1 away.

Valbuena takes, strike 1.  Big swing and miss, 0-2.  And he goes down swinging.  2 away.

Shoppach fouls the first pitch off, 0-1.  Tapped to the left side.  Duke fields and throws to 1st...and throws it away.  1 run scores and runners are at 2nd and 3rd.

Pavano swings and misses, 0-1.  Grounded to Jack, throw to Adam to retire the side.

They score 1...3-1 Bucs.

Thanks for the minor league updates, BABS, IMO once again, a missed chance in the 2nd to stick a fork in Pavano, hopefully his pitch count will continue to grow

BaB...Those are the numbers I got from TV.  I didn't realize they were from last night.  

Hey DMAC, yeah now after they trade awy McClouth, & I wouldn't tout that as a major plus, Nyjer has 25 Rbi's & Freddie has 29 to adam's34 & andy's 33, GO TO ESPN.com they still have McClouth listed as the leading RBI player for our bucco's in his atlanta braves hat...

This is reaching way back in the string but, someone was wondering what the difference between the teams trigger finger on Gorz vs Snell?

Didn't GM Skippy give Snell that big new contract?  He hadn't given Gorz one.  It's real easy to be tough with guys that you haven't staked your reputation on.

By the way, was just watching Yanks-Braves and Dave O'Brien, after watching McAwesome stripe one into the right field gap opined, "hard to believe, watching the way this young man can play, that that was anything but a salary dump by the pirates.....though they deny that....they contend they needed to clear space for Mccutchen."

What about LF - we have one useless body patrolling it on a nightly basis, and since he is "miked up", I've put the radio feed on.

oh and the fact that NATE has been gone for almost 3 weeks now.. so take your "THEY LEAD THE TEAM IN RBI'S argument & ummmmm... yeah, u know

BTW - IMHO, don't get too bummed out about only getting 3 runs in the second.  Considering no ball left the infield in the air, you might say the team was really lucky to get 3 runs.

Of course, if it was Ian Snell pitching everyone would be clamoring for his head and screaming about how he's not focused enough when ground balls sneak between infielders.

Perspective folks..perspective.  

Memo to FSN: you do NOT need to put up the AL RBI leaders during Clev. ABs and remind us which LF for the Sox is leading the league in RBIs..thanks for that.

So according to NH, if memory serves me, McCutch stayed in the minors because 'he could not bunt", seems as though last AB, he didn't learn, send him down.  Per the announcers on FSN, Pedro just went deep with one on.

Lincoln through 3: 1 H, 2 BB (both of Thompson)

He also has two singles in two at bats.

*********BREAKING NEWS******************

After Jose Tabata reached on an error, Pedro Alvarez has launched his first AA homerun.  A two-run shot to right, Alvarez's first hit in AA tied the game at 2 in the fourth.

Bizrow - excellent point about not being able to bunt.  Apparently you missed one of the regulars on here last week making the point that they called Mccutch up when they did because "he was ready"...

And had nothing to do with the fact that they'd waited just long enough that this year won't count towards his 6 years of service time...right.

ATTTTAAA BOY PEDRO!  BIG SPLASH IS JUST GETTING WARMED UP!!

ok, runners on corners 2 outs, & LA LAMO up , prove me wrong & get a hit, with a runner in scoring position, with 2 outs, please prove me wrong

ok, runners on corners 2 outs, & LA LAMO up , prove me wrong & get a hit, with a runner in scoring position, with 2 outs, please prove me wrong

If Pedro could run, he'd be the 2nd coming of Deon Sanders (he hits in prime time, the anti-Larouche.

Tony Sanchez has added a walk to his totals.

Lincoln hits the leadoff man in the fourth, then cleans that up quickly with a double play.  He then whiffs Miguel Cairo to end the inning.

4 IP, 1 H, 2 BB, 4 K

SoBurgh - LaLame is CLUTCH!

and he proved me wrong, & now is the leading RBI man on the pirates his 35 to NATES 34...

Attaboy, AdLa, working the count so often, he was due...

Now he STEALS! Hahaha!

SoBurgh - And then what do you know. Little LaLame follows that with a CLUTCH RBI single.

I know have the formula for Adam.  Curse him mentally, criticize him on-line and then wap.. base hit!!

I think we can all agree HE (adam) won't be here next year, so the better he plays now, gives HUNTINGTON to get something decent in return for him come july 31st...

Zach leads off and takes ball 1.  Takes a strike on the inside corner, 1-1.  Swings and misses, 1-2.  Fouled away.  Misses low, 2-2 count.  Grounded to 1st.  Martinez to Pavano for the out.  1 away.

AMac takes a called strike, 0-1.  He lays the bunt down, but put it too close to the pitcher, as Pavano fields and throws to Martinez, 2 away.

Nyjer Nyjer tries to bunt, pops it foul, 0-1.  Misses away, 1-1.  In there, 2-1 count.  Slapped to the left side and finds its way to LF to give Nyjer a single.

Freddy steps in and they pitch out, 1-0 count.  Fouled away, 1-1 count.  Nyjer goes and the ball is air-mailed into shallow CF.  SB for Nyjer, 1-2 to Freddy.  And Freddy grounds it to deep SS...Valbuena fields and makes a BAD throw to 1st, Freddy is safe!

Runners at the corners, 2 away.

Adam takes a called strike, 0-1.  Misses inside, 1-1 count.  Fouled of the catcher, 1-2.  In the dirt, Freddy goes to 2nd and it's 2-2 to Adam.  Fouled away to the left.  WOOHOO!  he drops a single to CF...Nyjer scores and Freddy is waved home and he scores!  Adam is at 1st with a single.  SWEET!

Andy steps in and Adam takes off and is safe at 2nd with an SB.  The count to Andy is 0-1.  Andy shoots a single to RF...Bealsey waves Adam home and he slides...the throw to home is to the 3B side and Adam is SAFE!   WOOHOO!  

Visit to the mound...

Moss laces one into The Notch!  Andy comes around and scores, and Brandon is in at 2nd with a double. WOOHOOO!  Nice going Brandon!

And there's a gonna be a pitching change...

MOSS IS BOSS!

Also, someone please call the Cleveland police.   The arsonists they call a bullpen are warming up.

SoBurgh

"I think we can all agree HE (adam) won't be here next year, so the better he plays now, gives HUNTINGTON to get something decent in return for him come july 31st..."

How about this, the better he plays, the more he helps the PIRATES WIN. Ever think of that? Or do you not care if they win or not?

Adam with the "HARD SLIDE"  at the plate, nice job

Last night we couldnt hit Huff but we light Pavano up?????

Okay all, I'm out. Battling traffic and whatnot.  Maybe checking in later. But so far, its a GREAT NIGHT FOR BASEBALL!

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

Southern Burgh...That was HIGHLY uncalled for.  I was merely pointing out that the two of them are responsible for a good amount of runs.    I GET you don't like him... but you don't have to be rude.

Jensen Lewis is on the mound for the Tribe.

Jaramillo steps in and takes ball 1.  Fouls the first next one off, 1-1.  Swings and misses, 1-2.  Popped up to the left side, but it bounces foul and no one gets to it.  And KISS THAT ONE GOOD BYE OVER THE CLEMENTE WALL!

2-Run shot!  WOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOO!

"In my Issac hayes voice..".. hey now children, we are winning 7-1.

@Matt Alexander DR,

Yes, must have missed that, I'm normally a daytime blogger, but again

Doublespeak confuses me..

Go Bucs, Ian just called, he's complaining that he started last night instead of today, ITS NOT FAIR I TELL YOU, THEY NEVER SCORE FOR ME

There's that Pirates Charity scoreboard again, as JJ goes deep, DK is right on, its ugly

Jack stesp in and has a 1-1 count.  He looks at a called strike, 1-2.  Ripped foul.  Shoots it to the right side and right to Martinez. That's the last out.

BIG inning for the Bucs!  The score is now 9-1!  SWEET!

MATT THE RAT        i was a very optomistic person after our hot start, but everytime i've gotten my hopes up, they get CRUSHED, stomped on, put in a blender, frapayed, need i go on, i'd love to see us finish 81-81 or 82-80 but i'm realistically optmistic, and you should be too

WOW - 9-1!  I am loving this...

Fishing time

Bucco Nation (37States in the Union) – last to join is the Commonwealth of Massachusetts

Still looking for inmates from the following:

Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Hawaii, Minnesota, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Tennessee, Washington, Wyoming

We do have 7 countries represented: Australia, Brazil, Canada, Germany, Phillipines, Scotland,