Morton debut tomorrow, Gorzelanny out

I want to see Brooks Pounders, which is a great baseball name is there ever was one.

Best odd name ever :  Razor Shines (Montreal)

Well--here we go with an early look at the trade .

Good luck Morton. Unless Clutch McCutch keeps hitting triples you are going to have to pitch a shutout

This is a typical PBC move, bring up the new player to throw off the smell of the draft.  IMO, this is dusgusting, there is no excuse for this draft, so we hide the weenie, take the heat off of NH and pray for a miracle.  God bless us one and all, we deserve it

WSB-Shines is a coach I think with the Mets. 3rd base I think

Did anyone else see Amarillo compare himself to Rosa Parks to end the Sanchez is first pick thread?

I actually think Morton is the key to the deal.  Locke is in A-ball and struggling.  He's worth acquiring certainly, but not a sure thing obviously.  There's a limited upside to Gorkys Hernandez since has no power right now.  I haven't heard him as being described as someone who will develop much power either (maybe a 10-HR ceiling).  He sounds like a Juan Pierre right now, although I hope he's better than that someday.

But, Morton has been great at AAA last year and this year and it sounds like he has better stuff than anyone in the current rotation.  I was annoyed since we didn't Hanson or Medlen and they were rated higher.  But, if Morton turns out to be a good starter, he could be what makes the trade worthwhile.

Aww...I knew he was going to have to go back to Indy, but I wanted to see Gorz start.  Rats.  

"Did anyone else see Amarillo compare himself to Rosa Parks to end the Sanchez is first pick thread?"

yes Ben State, i did. and i have to say your posts in that thread were the only ones i regularly agreed with. thank god someone with sense is posting here!

Welcome Charlie, dont let the angry "PITCH FORK CARRYING MOB" outside fool ya were really pleasent people :)

Bizzy-I mentioned last night that I thought Morton would pitch because Karsten's came in relief.It was the after game thread.I also mentioned the changes in the line up there as well.I was texting JR and he agreed.The Sanchez pick was also my fault so click on my name and you can EMAIL me and call me ANY names.We really won't know about the draft picks,but I will bookmark today's blog and if I'm still alive in 2-3 or 4 years we can discuss the good and bad.Truthfully I have only seen a handful of these guys play and no one the Bucs picked.Yet. ;-)

Better than Juan Pierre? I, too, hope he is better than Juan Pierre, but would a Nate McLouth for a young Juan Pierre straight up be a bad deal? And we got two other pitchers who have some potential?  Doesn't sound bad to me.

 lAST NIGHT                                   mazfromiowa  wrote re: Pirates fall to Braves in 15 innings, 7-6; wither Karstens?

on Tue, Jun 9 2009 12:44 AM

Rally killer,but he's still hit in 8 of 9 games.There were a lot of guys that didn't produce Moss,Jaramillo,Morgan.The pen was super.Especially Meek.It wouldn't shock me to see Gorzo sent down and Morton possibly get Karsten's start on Wednesday.

I just looked at the Sporting News page to try and find info on the two picks at 49 and 53.  I couldn't find anything on them.  But, I did see their mock first round draft.  No Tony Sanchez in it.  Ugh.  I'm going to keep looking for info on Mr. Black and Mr. Pounders.

Morton's start was very predictable.Kinda surprised all you guys didn't predict it as well.

They send gorzo down?

this organization is ricockulous.

i would be even more mad at them but they just drafted me in the 6th round.  

Using an analogy is not comparing yourself to someone.

Some of you would rather live in a fantasy land.  Others of us are ticked off, frustrated and want everyone who has anything to do with the Pittsburgh Pirates to know it.  I don't care if it's not PC, and I don't care if I offend anyone.  WE ALL should be the ones who are offended, by the actions these people have perpetrated on anyone who cares about this team.

Ortiz, Victor Black just finished his junior year at Dallas Baptist University. He was considered one of the high school pitchers in Texas when he finished in Amarillo.

Here's his video highlight from mlb.com

mlb.mlb.com/.../video.jsp

There will be no dancing with Lord Stanley's Cup in Pittsburgh this evening.

Rob Scuderi for the Conn Smythe! :)

Sanchez

thecollegebaseballblog.com/.../cbb-top-50-countdown-number-48-tony-sanchez-boston-college

bceagles.cstv.com/.../sanchez_tony00.html

This too

mazfromiowa  wrote re: Pirates fall to Braves in 15 innings, 7-6; wither Karstens?

on Tue, Jun 9 2009 12:22 AM

After a long game there will probably be a strange line up today as well

Here's a link to a Baseball America Q&A about which of today's draftees will make the off-seson top 100 prospects.  The guy says at least 10 from today will make it (no, Sanchez wasn't one).

www.baseballamerica.com/.../268219.html

I think only Alvarez and Lincoln will make it.  McCutchen is in the majors, Tabata hasn't done much this year (I think he made it last year), and G. Hernandez has no power (I think he was #92 a couple of years ago).  Luckily, Lincoln has bounced back strong.  I'm really surprised how well he has bounced back.  

We could have drafted someone today who would have been our 2nd or 3rd best prospect immediately.  Hopefully, the plan works.  I would have done it differently.  

Maybe Sano will be the #1 prospect before too long, if we get him (especially given Alvarez's low batting average).  

Here are Victor Black's numbers from his 2009 season at Dallas Baptist University. www.dbu.edu/.../BB_2008-2009_overallStats.htm

His ERA seems high at 4.16, but in 88 innings pitched, he only walked 40 and struck out 99!

Junior, do you honestly think once the bidding starts, that the Pirates will outbid everyone to get Sano?  Do you honestly believe that?

I'm old but I too follow the game and while the PBC doesn't always make me happy...I ain't changing after 48 years of backing them.The draft is a crap shoot and we won't know how it plays out for a few years.If I knew I wouldn't be in Iowa behind this keyboard...I'd be getting paid while I worked in Florida tonight

Carry over from previous thread....

"If the Pirates spend 10 mil and sign 40 draft picks, will we still be unhappy? The big thing will be how much money we spend in the end."

It's humorous to see the goal posts move on a day by day basis.

Maz, If you read Baseball America, you get a general feel on what players are going to become the next generation of studs.  They're not wrong often.  And every year they do a Draft Preview.  I'd recommend the Buccos front office buy a copy, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't spend the $4.95.

Recognize any names in this boxscore?

mlb.mlb.com/.../national_boxscore_062007.txt

Hey, thats Mr. Haney! I'd know him anywhere.

So who's got the scoop? What ever happened with that no-hitter Daniel McCutchen was pitching?

2 more homers for Garrett Jones tonight.

Craig Monroe better start packing his bags if you ask me.

Today opitimizes the life of a Pittsburgh fan:

1.  Pens win a great must-win, showing extreme heart

2.  Steelers release their new SuperBowl rings

3.  Pirates crap the bed again with the draft.  Nice work, boys.

"It's humorous to see the goal posts move on a day by day basis."

it is. they could go out and sign the best player to the most expensive contract in the game and then you would whine that we put too much into one player. they can't possibly win with you, which is why i skip your posts 99% of the time. i know what you're saying before you say it. get a new gig, this one is dull.

welcome young morton. the asylum welcoming committee has hidden all the pitchforks for a glorious reception. we are all behind you! all 7 centerfielders are behind you!

IF WINS COME WITH MORTON

I'LL DROP WHAT I'M SNORTIN'

all medicinal of course.

"they could go out and sign the best player to the most expensive contract in the game and then you would whine that we put too much into one player"

Oh really?  Tell me, oh wise one, when will/has this happened in the past, oh, 17 years or so?  Any insight would be appreciated.

Pig Legs

web.minorleaguebaseball.com/.../stats.jsp

@Amarillo, I wasn't offended by the Rosa Parks remark.  I was just entertained by the invoking of a civil rights leader in relation to anti-Nutting advocacy.

I disagree though with the notion that if the fans quit we'll kick start positive motion.  We're already last in attendance, so not going won't work.  

Personally, I'm on board with what the front office is doing right now, they don't seem incompetent to me.  But, they've also justified anyone's personal decision to jump ship until a more competent big league product emerges.  Me, I'm entertained by the rebuilding and like baseball too much to ever quit paying attention to the Pirates or stop going to the games.

I still watch the games when they're on TV and watch them at the local sportsbar that has satellite feeds on weekends.

But I used to go to PNC Park at least once a year when I would visit my dad.  This year we went to Cleveland to see the Tribe/Yanks.  I'm still going to see the Buccos live, but in Colorado later this month when they play the Rockies.

I will not put one more cent into Bob Nutting's pocket until he opens his wallet and shows me he's willing to spend HIS money.

Rooting for the Pirates right now is like rooting for a poker player who folds on every hand because he doesn't want to match the big blind.  "Pocket Aces.....but the blind is so much....ahh, who needs to see the flop anyway?  I fold."

So PA and Mercer and Victor Black have played for Team USA together in 2007.

You do realize Nutting gets part of the profits in away games too.

I think all the absolute naysayers should depart--pick the Yankees to root for--they spend over $200 million on payroll and a ton more on everything else...they don't contend either anymore....I think Maz is 100% right....book mark this page and check back in 4 or 5 years. The draft is to stock the minors--not flood PNC park. I like some of the "off radar" picks alot--shows baseball smarts and I will bet they pan out more than most in the top 32 of this draft (I say only 3 will be successfull out of this year's draft).

Diamonds in waiting don't go early or with fanfare. You guys would have complained about receiving a no name shortstop drafted in 98 by the Cards--from a Junior College! Now you will cry the day jack Wilson is traded....

Its a business...if the product is subpar you would want to upgrade and try as many possibilities as you could. I think this PBC ownership is doing well and will prove it in the years (not the now...sorry) to come.

Not as much as the home gate.  Besides it's one of my best friends' bachelor parties, and we have a party suite at Coors Field.  How can I say no to that?

To get away from my draft depression for a minute . . .

Anything we get from Morton is a bonus.  He's not considered to have anywhere near the upside, overall, of Gorkys or Locke.  As I relayed per my AL scout buddy, ignore the numbers right now, because this trade really was about Locke.

Thanks MazfromIowa, I'll put a shortcut to that site on my desktop from now on.

I see Feliciano got the first hit. It would have been really weird if the first hit came from Robinson "Cancel"

I see Garrett Jones got plunked in the 9th. I wonder if that got the benches antsy. Pearce made him pay with that double.

Anyway, a good game for Daniel McCutchen. Pearce had a nice game too.

It'll be strange for Morton pitching in Atlanta against his old team. I'm sure he'll be nervous, so I'm only hoping for a quality start at best. I'll be satisfied with that.

Congrats, Maz on calling Morton being called up and today's interesting lineup.  

Amarillo...First, please do not tell the rest of us how we should react. We are all allowed to see things through our unique perspectives and react differently.  So to say that "we all " should be offended, is too all-encompassing for me.

I met a man in Bradenton this spring who is a free-lance sports writer.  He's from Boston originally, but lives in the Tampa area.  I've quoted him here before -- in regards to Hansen, as he's a rabid Red Sox fan.

Why do I bring this up?

1.  He absolutely LOVES having Jason Bay in Boston -- hopes they find a way to sign him long term.  BUT having said that, he didn't like having to give up Moss and Hansen (Manny, he had no use for), but there was not place for either of them in Boston.  He was very impressed that we got not only them, but Andy LaRoche in that deal as well.  

Maz missed another link for the 2007 Team USA roster...

mlb.mlb.com/.../roster_world_cup_07.jsp

I see 6 names on there that are in the Pirates organization...

2.  I got an email earlier this evening telling us how LUCKY we were to get Sanchez.  According to Scott, Sanchez was projected as the #1 pick before Strasburg burst out this season.   With all the resources Huntington has at his disposal...with all the man-hours spent on scouting the player...I, personally, am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he sees something valuable in Sanchez.

Am I happy that they traded Nate?  Heck no!  But it's done and I'm trying to move on, though I will keep an eye on Atlanta's box score.  Nate's a good guy and I want to see him do well.  

Sorry to have lumped you in there, DMac.  I should have said those of us who don't like horrible, losing baseball should all be offended.

Fats-At least you are a fan.I'm a Packer fan and this blog has NOTHING on unhappiness....because when Favre retired....unretired....retired ..and then unretired ....well this place is a tea party compared to the Green Bay P-G.Strange how this paper and that one, are both the Press Gazette.This blog is bliss compared to  the one in GB.It's a town of 100,000 too.

I was waiting for the "go root for the Yankees" post.  It actually came later than I expected, though its extra delusion looks to compensate for the tardiness.

Sanchez was a reach of historical proportions, and the pick is an embarrassment to the Pirates and their fans.  Viewing just the pick itself in isolation, and not the players bypassed, it is far worse than Moskos, who at least was a legit top-dozen prospect.  For every analysis that mitigates its disaster, there is another that questions whether the guy will ever be a regular major league player.

The two pitchers were taken around where they should have been, or perhaps ten spots or so "too high" in each case, but that far down that's not much of a difference.  We would have been much better off taking Wheeler or Hobgood with our first pick, and then taking a bat with either #49 or 53.  That is, if the goal was actually to win someday.  Still, on the picks alone, these aren't bad, even if not breathtaking steals.

Not much out there on the CF, except for the odd fact that one mock draft I found actually had us taking him with that pick.

(And in conclusion, to paraphrase a line from an old TV show, if you think we're really going to spend what it takes to get Sano, and that's why we went cheap and absurd with our first pick, then you haven't been paying attention for the past 17 years.  Wait for the letter where Neal explains how we were outbid, and aren't going to spend all that money on one player.)

Well, I just can't for the life of me figure how anyone....anyone who purports to love the Pirates cannot have, if not outright hatred, then at least a simmering dislike for the ownership and how they have run this team into the ground and lied to our faces while doing it.

I want the Pirates to win just as much as everyone else here does.  But when I smell a dead rat, I open my mouth and say, "My god!  Don't the rest of you smell this putrid, decaying rat in here?"  I don't say, "Well, at least we have some potpourri spray to make the smell stink less".

No, you should have left it at YOU are offended.

Me, and about 90 percent of the greater Pittsburgh Area....although most of them probably aren't offended anymore...that died out 8 years ago.  Now they just don't care at all.

Here's a bit on Evan Chambers

mlbbonusbaby.com/.../juco-players-to-watch

"Oh really?  Tell me, oh wise one, when will/has this happened in the past, oh, 17 years or so?  Any insight would be appreciated."

it hasn't, thankfully. and nor should it, since that approach hasn't exactly worked for the Rangers, Yankees, or any number of other teams. but the point is that NuHo complains about shifting goalposts when he is the person who is BY FAR most guilty of that. the front office right now has a plan, that they have stated, and are following. i mean, people are complaining about this first round pick when it was pointed out just the other day by the GM himself that we should not just look at the draft itself but ALL the activity they do between now and the beginning of august because they believe the draft this year to not be the best place to get talent. these guys have a plan, they have tranparency, and they're trying to go about things in a manner that makes sense. and they get bombarded by people who have prejudged them based on the previous years of screwing up.

For what it's worth, Baseball America had Evan Chambers projected as a fifth/sixth round pick.  An apology in advance if I didn't format the link properly:

www.baseballamerica.com/.../268148.html

my head hurts from reading some of the crap posted here. Constantino, NuHo, you guys are two of the worst. not only do you think that you know more about baseball than an entire organization of professionals who have done BASEBALL as their career, but it turns out you are not even as sharp as some of the cats on a small message board. get over yourselves! for how highly you think of your own abilities, you'd think that other teams would come calling to sign you to be president and GM. i wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that call if i were you.

One more scouting report on Chambers, this one from a site centered on JUCO baseball.  Warning, it is fairly depressing (another guy who can't hit curveballs), especially the last paragraph:

"Chambers played center field for Hillsborough in both games.  Thickly built at 5-9, 220, there aren’t many baseball players who look like him.  He’s an above-average (60 on 20-80 scale) runner with good instincts in center field and an adequate arm.  Chambers also showed some juice in his bat; I project him for average bat-speed and power, and he’s short enough to the ball to hang in against big league pitching one day.

His issue here and also during his very brief playing time as a freshman at Florida is that he struggles with curveballs.  It’s just a matter of waiting longer and keeping his hands back.

From a pro perspective, the body is a concern only because it’s already matured and one doesn’t know if it will get out of hand one day.  Chambers is very thick around his hips and legs.  From the height/weight numbers, one might think of Kirby Puckett, but remembering the Twins star as a young player, he was a bit looser in his upper half and had more of a barrel shape to his chest.  Nevertheless, Chambers is very strong and it should translate to more power than the typical 5-9 guy.

For Chambers to be a first-ten round draft, he’ll have to show a more polished bat and also convince scouts that he’ll stay strong and in shape as he gets older.  Chambers was drafted in the 17th round by the Colorado Rockies out of nearby Lakeland High School in 2007."

Baseball Prospectus has Chambers as a 3 rd rounder or possibly a 2nd round pick.Amazing how different scouts interpret the abilities of ball players isn't it?

Amarillo...I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just think there are different ways at looking at things.  There are so many different stats and takes, that until I see something on the field for myself, I won't pass judgement.  That's how I work and I'm only asking for you to respect that. I respect your point of view, just not being included in an opinion that I haven't made.

This team isn't performing like I feel it can...But I do see potential that is not being met.

I have openly admitted that I'm new to the PIrates, but that gives me an advantage. I don't have a history of bad decisions to color what I see.  I am seeing pretty much everything fresh. Sometimes you get too close and can't see the toxic feelings that are out there...I don't have that, so I can be more optimistic.  But then again, I try to see the lighter side anyway -- that's who I am.  

Pipe,

I'd buy that argument....and it was a very well stated and presented argument...if as soon as dollars and cents become involved, with the one exception of Alvarez (which in itself ended up going to court and becoming a soap opera...could you see that happening with ANY other team?) that "plan" becomes conveniently laid aside.

I would say, if the Pirates were deferring this money to sign a decent first rounder then go aggressively after Sano because they think he was almost as good as Strasburg, that I take back what I've said here tonight.  But you and I both know they won't.  They never have and they never will.

And the Yankees seem to be doing pretty well to me.  When's the last time they had a losing season?

pipecock-thanks for your input.I wish you would have been here 10 months ago.Very refreshing posts.

You know, Pipecock, I can bet I'd have done a better job with our first pick than Neal & Co. did today.  It'd be hard not to.  That says more about them than it does about me, because I've not claimed to be some great baseball mind.  Difference being I'm not getting paid to actually be one.

Alright then, Dmac....we'll agree to disagree.  I have been guilty on more than one occasion of not being able to understand points of view that are different than my own.

Inmates………I find it truly amazing how anyone can spend an entire evening being totally miserable, while not understand how so many others are willing to take a wait and see attitude.

If someone is unhappy and refuses to attend another game again, then why do they care what anyone else here thinks? There must be something on the TV that is more entertaining than trying to recruit everyone else to the exit. Perhaps a good book , or a warm bath would be more relaxing.

I'm trying to understand what there's so much excitement over the baseball draft.  This isn't like many of the drafts in other sports, where you have a good idea of the impact on the team pretty quick.  People are getting all upset about a pick that we have no way of knowing for many years.  I figured I'd take a look at the numbers of recent overall number #1's in the baseball draft to see how many have panned out:

While looking up the numbers, I didn't realize that Xavier Nady was the last player drafted that went staright to the majors skipping over going to the minors, back in 2000 with the Padres.

Anyways:

2008: Tim Beckham, TB: not reached majors

2007: David Price, TB: 1-0 2.20 (8 games, 4 starts)

2006: Luke Hochevar, KC: 7-15, 5.51 ERA (just sent back down, gave up 8 runs in 2 innings in 1st game of 2009)

2005: Justin Upton, AZ: .264, 28 HRs, 87 RBIs & 213 strikeouts in 204 games

2004: Matt Bush, SD: never made it to the majors, recently traded to the Blue Jays & then released for behavioral violations

2003: Delmon Young, TB: .287, 27 HRs & 186 RBIs, & 300 strikeouts in 380 games (currently with the Twins)

2002: Bryan Bullington, PIT: 0-5, 5.08 ERA in 13 games, 5 starts (is currently with his 3rd team, TOR)

2001: Joe Mauer, MIN: .323, 56 HRs, 336 RBIs in 596 games

So I'd hardly call the baseball draft an exact science.  You've got a great catcher in Joe Mauer, Delmon Young & Justin Upton solid players, but not tearing apart the league, a bunch of washouts and a few unknowns.  

I can't get too upset about the Pirates choices in the baseball draft.

Plus, don't forget:

Jason Bay was drafted in the 22nd round

Nate McLouth: 25th round

Oh well

I forecast a disaster in the very near future, beginning at approximately 7:10 P.M. EST

Constantino-You never mentioned that article picked him at a 2nd or 3rd round pick.However you mentioned the other one that listed him at a 5th or 6th.Why omit the the selection in one (2 or 3 ) and mention the lower one?You are a fan of the PBC aren't you?

Amarillo...I'm good with that.  I am just as guilty sometimes.  :-)

Ken, I don't like baths.  I want to smell like the Pirates.  Okay, you have to admit that was funny.

I do not think anyone on this blog site is anywhere near as knowledgeable as the Pirates staff when it comes to evaluating players, anyone can post what they want and that is okay.

Even though the Pirate staff is very knowledgeable in evaluating talent, still does not mean all of them will work out. but so far the talent pool has been upgraded significantly by the latest management team.

More trades will have to be made and a few more favorites will go and more ranting and raving will take place, baseball people will understand this.

People that know very little about baseball will be offended the most.

Evan Chambers, OF, Hillsborough CC (FL) – Chambers, part of a huge Florida JUCO class, was a former Florida Gator who transferred out due to lack of playing time his freshman year (8 ABs).  He has some good raw power and plate discipline, though he’s a bit of a small-bodied kid at 5′9”.  He’s already up to 220 lbs., and I’ve seen more than one place show a bit of a concern that he might put on a little too much weight.  As it stands, he’s a solid prospect with a decent arm and range for a corner outfielder.  He’s not a center fielder by any means, though.  His speed is about average, so the knock is his general range.  For the most part, though, Chambers’ performance of a .324 average with 11 homers this Spring has elevated his stock, possibly making him a first day pick.  Someone looking for a signability outfielder with decent raw power could even call his name in the second round.

Amarillo

I find most of what has been going on here excruciatingly boring.

Leadoff, with all due respect, you're putting an awful lot of faith in people with absolutely no track record and who inherited a barren wasteland of an organization with an owner who is among the top 3 stingiest in a 30 team league.

You'll pardon me if my cynicism meets your optimism at the top of the mountain.

And Leadoff, you'll also pardon my cynicism regarding your point about those of us who are upset  'knowing very little about baseball'.

I know enough about baseball to understand that the object of the game is to win, not to make the biggest profit margin for you and your kids.

Where are the wins?  Do you see any?  And if you know where they are, could you please tell me where to find them?  I want to learn about baseball!

Ken, I find 17 (going on at least 20) consecutive years of my favorite team losing infuriating.  I guess we'll all just have to feel what we feel and play nice.

Fats

ith all due respect, you're putting an awful lot of faith in people with absolutely no track record and who inherited a barren wasteland of an organization with an owner who is among the top 3 stingiest in a 30 team league.

As I said, the talent pool has been significantly upgraded since this management team took over, that is not an opinion, that is a fact.

Must we go over the long list of improvements in the system since these guys took over. I just don't have all night or I would.

I believe the Rays were very stingy last year too.The reason for the trades was to replenish the farm system.Remember last year we brought up Herarra and used Osoria among others?This year we have Gorzo and morton.Wouldn't that be a significant upgrade in 12 months?Our record is 3 games lower than last year and we won't be making trades of the magnitude of last summer.I'm not sure why a person would say or intimate progress hasn't been made.

Amarillo << 17...........infuriating  >>

Then why are you still watching? If itt makes you so angry, then why do you keep doing it to yourself?

Maz, it's not the plan that makes me angry, it's the lies.  On paper, it looks like a sound plan.  BUT....(another magnified BUT).....at some point, there has to be money spent.  Retention of talent.  Actually KEEPING some of your stars instead of the constant treadmill of prospect-growing pains-decent player-semi-star (thus commanding a salary)-traded for more prospects-lather-rinse-repeat.

This owner has never shown us that he will do that.  Why?  Because we will never get to that point!  Andrew McCutchen will be the next Bay or McLouth.  So will Duke.  Ohly.  Locke.  Ad infinitum.  Until he actually does what he says (which is kinda tough to believe, since we've been lied to so many times already), I refuse to believe it.

Ken - Because I'm a masochist.  I'm also a New Orleans Saints fan.  Why do you think I came to a place called the Asylum in the first place?

DMAC,

 I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I have to call into question your friend's credibility. First of all, the fact that he had no use for a hall of famer like Manny Ramirez but hated to lose Hansen and Moss makes me question his baseball knowledge. I have several friends from the Boston area and not one was disappointed to lose Moss or Hansen, both considered throw-ins in the Bay trade. Andy LaRoche and Bryan Morris were the real targets.

"I got an email earlier this evening telling us how LUCKY we were to get Sanchez.  According to Scott, Sanchez was projected as the #1 pick before Strasburg burst out this season."

The above comment is what assures me this guy has no credibility. First of all, Strasburg did not "bust out" this year. He was universally projected as the first overall pick for the last two years. Second, Sanchez did not emerge as a potential first round pick until THIS year. Prior to his offensive explosion in 2009, he wasn't even expected to be picked within the first ten rounds. So either this guy is mistaken or he is telling flat out lies to make you feel better about our selection. I'd lean towards the second, but Sanchez being regarded as the potential first overall pick is nothing more than a figment of the guy's imagination.

Fats

I know enough about baseball to understand that the object of the game is to win, not to make the biggest profit margin for you and your kids.

Where are the wins?  Do you see any?  And if you know where they are, could you please tell me where to find them?  I want to learn about baseball.

Apparently don't read your own posts "with all due respect, you're putting an awful lot of faith in people with absolutely no track record and who inherited a barren wasteland of an organization with an owner who is among the top 3 stingiest in a 30 team league".

This is why you don't know baseball, not a GM on the planet is going to turn around a barren wasteland of an organization in one and a half years, I said

"but so far the talent pool has been upgraded significantly by the latest management team". Never mentioned wins.

With the smallest of common sense that I might have, I am not expecting the 27 Yankees yet, so wins are not what I am looking for at the present, being that I flunked the God test, I really don't know when the wins will come, unlike the people that already know the wins will never come and that have passed the God test.

Okay, Leadoff, I get it.  I'm tired of beating a dead horse, and I have to get up for work in 6 hours so I'm going to bed.  I needed to vent about us drafting a backup defensive catcher that can't hit college curveballs with the 4th pick in the draft, and I've done so.  At least I'm just tired and not furious anymore, so I guess you guys helped me out.  Goodnight and sweet dreams (about 1979)

BBB-DMac is not the only one who has friends who are Red Sox fans.I have several here in Iowa who also were very angry with losing Moss.In fact I hear about it a lot.It's entirely possible Bay may not re sign and the complaining about that fact is making them even more unhappy.

Bring Back Bonds...Again, there are different points of view.  And I may have misunderstood, or maybe he was trying to sell me something.  I guess we'll wait and see on Sanchez.

Frankly, I'm getting really tired of the "if you don't agree with the

FO you aren't a fan" blather.  I don't mean to attack anyone in particular, but I will quote some examples:  "People that know very little about baseball will be offended the most."  "I find it truly amazing how anyone can spend an entire evening being totally miserable, while not understand how so many others are willing to take a wait and see attitude . . .If someone is unhappy and refuses to attend another game again, then why do they care what anyone else here thinks?"  In other words, if you don't agree with what is happening, then you don't know as much as "me" about baseball or you shouldn't be paying any attention.  It used to be that the so-called negative nellies were the ones who were spouting the "you're a moron if you don't agree with me" crap, but lately, even before the McLouth trade, it has been more the so-called positives (or the pejorative "FO apologists") that have been, in my view, trying to diss any negative sentiment, no matter how genuinely held the views.  And as I said earlier, if you don't at least question this move, even if you ultimately agree with it, you are a moron.  ;-)

Not surprisingly, Bay has been the notable exception to the above.

To be completely honest, and I guess that you are going to find this truly amazing…..

I love the why this front office has been running this team since Littlefield & Tracy were kicked out of Pittsburgh. They have most definitely improved the system, and I am certain that we are now well on our way toward having a championship caliber team.

Sorry, I know that that last line to PBC FO haters is like garlic to a vampire, but it’s actually the way I see it.

Maz,

  I apologize but I find that hard to believe. Perhaps these friends of yours are the least knowledgeable Red Sox fans alive. All I know is Jason Bay is poised to win the AL MVP and Moss has been terrible all season.

Arriba, I agree with you completely. You won't find a more passionate Pirate fan than me, but this blind loyalty is ridiculous. While I'm pleased that Maz has dropped some of his earlier hostility, do I need to remind everyone how hard he was on Andy LaRoche prior to the season? He would obnoxiously clamor for Neil Walker and I believe he is responsible for coining the term "Raggedy Andy". No offense Maz, but I don't think it's appropriate for you to bash fans for disliking a player or the picks the team makes.

Wilver....

There are genuinely held views, then there are people that are bashing for the sake of bashing........

There are genuine FO apologists, and then there are people that are tired of the people that just want to repeatedly bash and interrupt the enjoyment of those that want to enjoy the team as it exists now.

That was an amazing job that DMac did with the PBP today; especially while so many repeatedly ranted the same stuff over and over.  I clicked on the avatars of many of the most “bashers” only to find that they had less than 30 posts even though they were going at it all evening. Made me wonder ………

UglyKen,

I actually agree with you about Huntington. After the Littlefield regime this front office has been a burst of fresh air. While I initially disapproved of the McLouth trade, it was because I wasn't impressed with the players they received in return, not because they traded my favorite player.

On the other hand, I find our first three picks tonight to be particularly troubling and a return to the penny pinching days of Littlefield's tenure. I feel that you need to take a player with a significant ceiling at the fourth overall slot. I've heard Huntington say himself that "you should be able to tell who the first round pick is", meaning that their skills should be evident when watching them play against their peers. Having seen Sanchez in person twice, it's of my opinion that this isn't the case. Time will tell, but every scouting service agrees with me that Sanchez shouldn't have been selected anywhere near the top 20 picks.

Let me add something to the above.  Is it possible that the front office knows what it is doing and will bring us a championship team sometime?  Of course.

Is it possible that Nutting is just running the team for as long as he can for the profit he can make from it in the short term and plan to sell it in the long term for an even bigger profit?  Yes.  

Nutting's background is making money in the newspaper business, Coonelly's background is as a lawyer for MLB and Huntington's background is in several positions with the Indians, the last of which apparently a demotion.  I'm not saying this means they don't know what they are doing.  Huntington clearly has more baseball knowledge than anyone on this blog.  They more than likely are doing what they feel is best to put a winning baseball team on the field in the long run.  But that doesn't make illegitimate fan dissatisfaction with this or that move.  They have no track record and there is no little amount of faith that has to go into supporting them no matter what.  And while it isn't their fault, it has been 16 years . . .

Thanks, Ken. On all accounts...and I am blissfully unaware of most of the rants.   I was trying to watch the game!  :-)

And mad...if you're out there... I TOLD you the Pens did better when I didn't watch!  *grin*

Hostage...if you're still out there...I don't suppose you ventured to Turner Field during your business trip, did you?  Just curious...I would have, but that's me...

We will not be able to understand the true results until these guys play at the major league level or not. Frankly, one would be shocked at how few 1st round picks (not just PBC picks) ever make it to the majors at all, let alone become good players. Unlike the NFL, NBA, & NHL, most of the superstars of this draft are likely to be found among all the players that were selected after the 1st round. Why are so many inmates so certain that they know so much more than the people that are paid to do this for a living? If they fail, then should be fired, but right now I think after half way through their 2nd year is too soon to throw them under the bus.

Unlike this post, my first couple posts were a little tongue-in-cheek.

Ken--I agree that there are the bashers and that a lot of the negative posts could be attributed to one that kept popping up and was new, but the backlash seemed to be against anyone who questioned the pick.  And it wasn't just tonight.  I brought it up at the last gathering about there being more complaining about the negative posts than there were negative posts (although I don't know that anyone else agreed and it was before the Nate trade).  And if JJ is out there lurking, it was after you left.

Wilver

I left the Asylum for about a month because there was a poster that kept bashing our SS & LFielder, and one of our other posters felt that it was absolutely necessary to match each negative post with three positive ones. While I didn’t agree with the negative poster, it was obvious to me the vehemence of the defense was just egging on the other guy. It went on and on. In my opinion, it disrupted the normal discord that the rest of the inmates trying to discuss the game and or the next lineup. Since I didn’t find it at all entertaining, I gave up and gave the blog a rest. I came back about 2 weeks ago and everything seemed relatively calm. Then the Nate trade happened. We must of broken all records for posts on Wed, Thur, & Fri. The same thing, anti-FO or open minded toward FO, there were no other thoughts that could be discussed. Talk about the lineup was being met with ridicule (what difference does it make they say), talk about that day’s game was drowned out too; any talk about the team as it existed now was belittled because any players of value were being traded anyway.

Some of us don’t want to turn our backs on this team; even as it exists now. Some people want to believe that this FO does have a plan, and that that plan may have a chance to be successful, but if they dared to say such a thing last week, they were crucified by the angry mob of posters that either had their feelings hurt, or those that lost faith, or those that just like to bash and were just egging on the others. I feel for the first two types that I just described; however, the bashers egging on are the ones that I take exception too. I think that I detected that very thing going on this evening. I do not intend to meet “anti-FO posters” with a stream of positive posts; however, I may poke fun at those that bash just to bash from time to time.

Ken,

I most definitely do not fall into your group of people who "bash just for the sake of bashing".

The reason my post count is so low is because I only post here when I am either extremely happy or extremely angry about the Pirates.  I work a very demanding job (why else would I live in Amarillo, TX?  LOL), and my only real passions lie with my sports teams:  The Pirates, Penn State, and the Saints.  So when something really good or really bad happens with any of those teams, I'll sound off about it.

And if the Pirates ever do anything that resembles success, I swear to whatever deity you choose that I will be there cheering about it.  But for 17 years that has simply not been the case.  I sit by every day and pay attention to the Bucs.  I read this blog at least 5 days a week.  I only post when I feel something extreme.  It's not my fault that the extremeties have been 99 to 1 in favor of anger.  It's the FO's fault.

Just a few rambling thoughts this morning.

I, like others have posted in here, defer to the professionals in the FO to do the jobs they were hired for. I can't hold them responsible for previous regime's trangressions, therefore I have to trust that they know what they are doing. No one can predict the future just based on past experiences, I see a significant difference today than even just a year ago. I think the future looks brighter, but we won't know for a while yet.

For those of you calling for the resignations of the FO, the sale of the team by Bob Nutting, calling for MLB to take over the team (how'd that work out for the Expos?), calling for people to boycott the games to somehow force an ownership change, I caution you to remember, this is NOT a democracy. We did not ask Bob Nutting to buy this team ( we tried with Mark Cuban but he chose the Cubbies instead, not that he would aver be approved), we weren't asked our opinion on who should run the team or how it should be run. If you don't like an elected or appointed official, don't vote for him/her again. It's that simple, baseball or any other sport involving owners is not.

Where exactly is it written that a team owner should not make a profit? Do you think George Steinbrenner could pay 200 million for his third place team (last year) if he didn't make a profit? Of course now he has a shiny new stadium with HUGE ticket prices. Wonder if any public funds went into that place? Anyone in here ready to pay thousands for single-game tickets if/when the Pirates are successful? At least Pittsburgh has a Major League baseball team, I'm sure many cities envy us for that alone.

As for me, the negativity in here got to me big-time last night, but I'm gonna stand by my team. The naysayers will fade away soon.

NuttyBuddy, next time you walk past the offices of the PBC and give Bob Nutting the "one finger salute" you seem so proud of, picture this: He may just be looking back at you giving you the "Italian Salute". What did he do to you, give you an atomic wedgie or a super swirly in school? Your "fair and balanced " attacks are far too personal. It must go deeper than just being a disgruntled fan.

Rant on, inmates

My favorite sports names : I.M Hipp, running back for Nebraska (?)

                                           Wonderful Mons, also a football player

@Ugly:

"I left the Asylum for about a month..."

Bingo. I just come here for the info from DK & CF any more (I also used to read Playboy for the articles. Heh.).

Unfortunately, IMO, the repetitive repetitive repetitive repetitive posts by many and the "neener, neener" attitude have really turned me off to the blog. I scan it once in a while, but no longer daily as I used to.

This doesn't apply to all on the Blog, but it does to enough to make it unenjoyable for me. And so, unlike those who complain to the FCC about television & radio content, I have simply changed channels.

I'm still a Pirate fan. Always will be.

@tedkin:

World B. Free.

'nuff said.

Amarilo

It isn't the negative posts, or the positive posts that are disruptive, that is what is required to have an interesting blog discord Rather, it is the repetitiveness of a single idea issue, gripe, FO bash, FO defense, relentless player bash, and the escalating player defense that gets in the way of the enjoyment of the majority. Some people feel that it is their right to VANT, and that is true, but how man times are required to get one’s point across?

This blog wants and needs a wide range of views and opinions to be as entertaining as it once and still often is; however when one’s posts things like "Some of you would rather live in a fantasy land.”; that is the kind of thing that just causes an escalation of meaningless posts (in defense, and counter defense) that are no longer entertaining. If it isn’t enjoyable, then why do it?

There are a lot of long time posters that have just about had it with the back and forth bickering. Again it isn’t the opposing viewpoints that are at all unwelcome (that’s what keeps things interesting); it’s the receptiveness that gets annoying.

Thanks for caring enough to respond and perhaps consider what has been said, that in of itself is a very good thing.

" it’s the receptiveness that gets annoying."

Should have read "its the repetitiveness that gets annoying"

Again, people here aren't stupid; several posts are enough to get the point across. After that, it just escalates into silly back and forth posting that most adults find annoying.

Now I am being guilty of the same repetitiveness, but that is why I posted it over here rather than the new thread. I do not want to continue this now old subject to be continued on into infinity in front of the entire Asylum; surely they are getting of hearing this whine too.

Amarillo

I replied to your post on the previous thread. I have no desire to continue that discussion over on this thread. I do not think that it is a discussion that most of the regular posters would care to follow. It too has become too repetitive and I too risk being guiltily of whining.

opps, I put that last post on the wrong thread. I get so confused sometimes.

;-)