Pirates vs. Mets, 6-4-09: McCutchen leads off; players fume over trade

Cutch will be clutch!!!  

and

clutch is in gear

www.braves-nation.com/.../showthread.php

This is an old Blog i found on Morton, interesting reading.

I'm still a little in shock. lol. At first I thought the headline was a joke or something, what with he rainout. Ah well, that current lineup posted for the Pirates (with only the pitcher) is about how powerful the actual lineup will be.We went from little power to pretty much no power.

Man, I bumped my contest HR total up just prior to the season, stupid move on my part. lol.

"80% of the world is covered by water the other 20% by NYJMO &CUTCH"

                           Like it!!!!!!

I don't like the trade.  However, I'm glad Cutch is up as he really had nothing to prove in AAA.  Still can't get over dealing a guy with multiple years left on his contract.  Wouldn't have minded if it was for one of the guys we expected to be shopped.  

If he becomes an All Star some day and follows the Bay / McLouth timeline, Cutch will be dumped sometime around 2014.

Welcome to the big leagues Andrew.  We're looking forward to seeing what you can really do.

Well one thing we cant complain about is speed at the top of the line up BEEP-BEEP

morning links--with tons of good reading-available here

community.post-gazette.com/.../morning-links-talking-draft-with-chuck.aspx

Posted this on the morning thread but like it enough to bring over

Why this trade does not raise the level of a salary dump

1)  As stated earlier--Nate's contract not that expensive

2) In a salary dump you are activily trying to trade players to dump tyheir salary and will take peanut for them just to get rid of the salary.  As DK reports, they were shopping nate--the Braves appraoached them

3) The Pirates should have no untouchable players.  The only players they have have who may be among the top 5 in baseball are Duke, based on his results so far this season, and Nate.  Duke's stats probably are in the top 5 for LH starters.    Nate is pretty high among CF in HR and RBI When you have no stars and someone makes an offer for one of yoir players you have to evaluate the offer and if you like it then you pull the trigger on the trade.

That does not mean it was a good trade, just not a salary dump.  I go back to the Neagle trade--they thought Schmidt would be as good as Neagle--and he was but with the Giants.  They also thought Wright was the slugger they coveted, and he wasn't.    Had Wright become a 35 to 40 HR player for 5 or 6 years that would have been an excellent trade.

My concern with this trade is that they sent away one their few hitters with any power.  As we have seen, even if Morton comes up and pitches well, where will the runs come from.  Duke would have at least 9 wins with some run support.

I apologize if the ground has been covered, but 300+ comments are just to much to catch-up on.

Look at the big picture.  People in this blog have been saying for years for the Pirates to be more like the A's, Twins, and Marlins.  Well, the A's, Twins, and Marlins REGULARLY make trades llike this.  Get used to it.

Since Cutch is ready, then you have to make room for him.  Fine.  So who do you move to make room?  Answer, the player that gives you the best chance to win in the FUTURE.  There is no way that Morgan or Moss will yield better prospects than McLouth, so why are surprised and angry that McLouth is traded?  

Are these players the best return for McLouth?  Only time will tell, but at least all the national news and Atlanta new outlets I read say that these prospects have upside.

In short, I applaude the FO for having the courage to make the move.  I also applaude them for sticking to thier plan, as its is becoming increasingly clear that they have one and it is not to run the franchise into the ground (Littlefield already did that, so there is no challenge there).

@macs - Seriously!  Speed at the top of the line-up!!!

Welcome Andrew McCutchen.  Welcome to the Bigs.  Please lead our team.

I am curious to see how Nyjmo handle the #2 spot in the order, and if the top two guys get on who's gonna drive them in.....

I'm getting ready to head to the ballpark soon. It should be interesting to see how McCutchen does today. This team disappoints me so often, but maybe it'll be a good game.

I agree with Nutting Hostage. Enjoy Andrew while you can as he will be traded soon.

Billy, until I see for myself what the return is on the field, I will hold off on evaluating it too early.

I am board as always buit I still want to see, we need pitching and I am guessing the writng is on the wall for Ian, just last week and this week and the week before last week everyone is crying me included we have to stop the leak with Ian.

Since I do not know anything about these guys, I am guessing this was done to stop that leak.

if this guy in AAA comes up here and performs in Ians place as well as many say he will be like Ohlie, then it ws a trade that had to be made.

Ian is drowning us like a sieve, that has to be changed, my suspect is this guy is better at being ready for the big show more so than anyone else we have at this moment.

If we gave up nate to stop that leak and its gets stopped, nate was not winning us a game every five days and Ian is sure to lose one every five days as he is playing and the new guy stops that leak and the clutch is in gear playes like it is said, we will be a better team.

SI.com review of trade called McClouth one of worst fiielders in all of baseball last year according to some "advanced fielding metrics."

Well put jersey joe.  I'm trying to find the silver lining... I think I'll pop out and buy some earbuds to listen to the game here at work over the internet.  For some reason today's game now seems really important.

Triple G - wonder who's faster? my money's on Cutch

Stingray my question as well, how will Morgan handle the 2 hole and who's going to drive em in?

DMAC, im putting the faith in the Laroche coach today!!!!!!!!!!

DK, can you write about how we have the best corner IF in the league?

Good luck on the start of your career Cutch!

                             Ohlie Ohlies in free

NH,

What wrong with Cutch getting traded in 2014?  He will help us between now and then and if he is traded for prospects that help down the road rather than walking away in free agency, then the FO is doing what smart franchises do?

What is wrong with that?

I've missed stuff, but basically did we get value or get skewered by this deal?

IMO not a salary dump, but did we get chips in return?

Andrew....I wish you nothing but the absolute best and most success possible during what is likely to be your short stay with the PBC before you are traded away most likely by the trading deadline for a bag of prospect batting practice balls...LoL.

Good Luck and All The Best...SRSLY!

Good morning asylum, I'm still in a bit of shock after last night. But oh well life goes on, even thought Nate will be dearly missed and I'll never see my dream of McLouth, McCutchen, Tabata realized. But I must say I am very excited too see McCutchen play today, really wish I was going to the game, and really wish it was on t.v. But anyway, let the McCutchen era begin.

I am just still in shock.  But I am hoping this was a good trade and it works out in the long run.  Who knows maybe cutch will be really good this year and we can finish out the year at .500.  Gotta keep the faith.

It's obviously too early to know whether this deal will work out, but I'm OK with the concept of the deal, and the theory behind it.  The organization needs more talent, and Nate was traded at pretty much the peak of his value.

IMO not a salary dump, but did we get chips in return?

Biz, we may know soon if/when Morton steps into the rotation

my guess we got something there

The other 2 we will have to wait

Another bad trade, another losing season. Nutting just added $3mm plus to his "bottom line"

Jason Bays 2009 stats

.285 16hr 51rbi  .410 OBP .624 SLG

Moss and Laroche do not compare. Jose Tabata is on the dl and has not proven to even be a good AA ballplayer yet, also married to a 40+ yr old woman who stole a baby, dominican players always lie about there age and I suspect that is the case here. where there is smoke.....would not count on him as the future. Bryan who ??  Nate was the future and the present, I don't want to hear about 2011...we 've heard that story many times over, today is June 4 2009 and the club is 24-28 what are we doing about that ?  the pens will have more fans watching their game outside on a television tonight than the PBC will have in paid attendance this afternoon. Why ?  b/c they care about winning and make trades to win NOW.

************** BODY WATCH  – ATTENDANCE AT MLB PARKS **********

A day after the McLouth trade …

THRU 6/3/09

30.  Pittsburgh      25 games     410,604 total        16,424  avg./game

29.  Oakland 24 428,879 17,869

28.  Florida 25 447,138 17,885

27.  Washington   24 501,203 20,883

26.  Cincy 25 550,783 22,031

1.    NY Yankees  25 1,115,025 44,601

************************************************************************************

I have no problem with McClouth being traded.  Coming off the gold glove and good season at the plate he was at near peak value IMO.  I think he will still be a good player, just not much better than he was last year.  Also it is an area where the club actually has depth.

I am still trying to figure out if we got back equivalent value though. One way to look at it is we got Atlanta's 3rd best position player prospect and 3rd best pitching prospect. The equivalent would be trading Nate for Tabata and Sues with say Karstens thrown in. If the Atlanta players pan out, it seems pretty close value wise. I just hope they have another deal or two planned  to bring about 20 HRs into the fold.

See a lot of new bloggers here, one thing I'm trying to do is keep track of where we are all from.  So, if possible, when you post, put what state you are from, thanks in advance.

I think we need another wing or two added to this place...

And just wait till July 31....  (or the upcoming draft)

PENGUINS Avg. attendance

17,132   another sellout

plus another few thousand outside.

Looking at Bay's numbers with the Red Sox is not an accurate way of evaluating that trade.  You have to look at what he did here, and what he could reasonably be projected to have done here had he not been traded.

Thanks triple GGG,

macsinthebox wrote re: Pirates vs. Mets, 6-4-09: McCutchen leads off

on Thu, Jun 4 2009 2:46 PM

Triple G - wonder who's faster? my money's on Cutch

 Man oh man oh man, I can not believe he could actually be faster than Mr. Morgan, you guys are scaring me.

this will be like little league you get those two on and its a sure bet you end up with first and third nobody out and dthen a steeel, if the cutch is on third and he is faster than Mr. Morgan who is going to try and throw Mr. Morgan out trying to steal second with the cutch ready to be in gear and steal home.

www.youtube.com/watch

Joey Bats, you are a STUD!  

Only quality stuff from you man:)

@macs - I hope Cutch is faster because I'm already happy with Morgan's speed.  Cutch would be icing on the cake!  Can you imagine if those first 3 slap-happy batters start getting on base, stealing, driving in runs... could be a good time!

I hit the store and picked up some headphones so I'll be listening/watching the game on my laptop during lunch.  I really hope Cutch is as cool as a cucumber as he appears in interviews.  I'd be a nervous wreck.

Pgh fan in NH,

"I am still trying to figure out if we got back equivalent value though. One way to look at it is we got Atlanta's 3rd best position player prospect and 3rd best pitching prospect. The equivalent would be trading Nate for Tabata and Sues with say Karstens thrown in."

The difference is that their prospects are better than ours, so saying it's the equivalent of Sues/Karstens isn't really accurate.

And again, that's part of the problem.  Huntington has had to spend two years rebuilding a farm system left barren by Littlefield.

@freylaw24 wrote re: Morning links: Instant trade reaction

on Jun 4, 2009 7:32 AM

__________

If you are not using the tickets and have not given them away yet please send them to me.

________

Nate McLouth - Best of luck to you young man.

____

Clubhouse attitude and signing contracts.  

If you look at it right it may be in your best interest to sign a decent and long contract if you really want out.  maybe you will be traded to a decent team that is in the hunt now.

________

NUHO - I thought you said you were done. I see several more posts from you?  Can't give up yet I see.

________

Smokey and roxtar

Some nice posts there.......

__________

Billykidd

Don;t jump off the bridge yet, I did not see such a short string with you and the PBC.  Hang on for awhile and lets see what else happens.  I am sure there is more to come and a picture will evolve.  Hopefully!

_______

Capn- JHadar

Wish I could make the game and be there but I can't.  Have fun and give us a report.

First off If my comments are a repeat from past comments.  I was at the Cardinal game (hey free ticket in a corporate box with free food can't turn that down).  I got home late so only read part of the 300 or so messages then got tired.  Went to work early today so on to my thoughts.  Oh by the way thoughts of the cardinals later.

First off I wish to apologize for a prediction i made earlier in the week.  Never would have thought it would have happened this soon.  If anyone remembers i predicted Mcclouth to atlanta also was it snell or grabow for Hansen and escobar the atlanta ss.  Now that I see the real trade it got me to thinking.  Yes mcclouth was our go to guy.  But as it has been mentioned by others here and in publications he only has one full year plus this year.  The second half of last year he did not play near what he played the first half.  This year he is playing more like he played in the second half.  Is what we are seeing now the best you are gonna see hard to tell.  But we were not gonna get anything for morgan or moss so Mcclouth had to be our best bet for a trade.  Was it a good trade.  Well getting Three players that have upside isn't a bad trade for a player who on most teams is just another player on the team.  Mccutcheon doesn't have the power of mcclouth but he is as good a fielder with a better arm.  He has more speed.  So yes we lose power which I think will be eventually be picked up by Moss and Baby laroche.  It will be interesting to see what we get from mccutcheon.

Now the Crdinal game.  My observations.  The cardinals are not playoff material.  They really do not seem that much better then the pirates. All around pitching may be a tad better.  Of course they have poujos.  In watching the game Poujous this night did not seem like a team player.  First there starting pitcher was having some physiccal problems Lousche (just came back from an injury) so the trainer kept coming out to the mound rest of infield came to the mound accept poujous.  When they finally replaced the pitcher because of the injury the new pitcher had extra time to warm up.  The three outfielders gathered together in the outfield.  The infielders accept poujols gathered together in the infield.  I believe poujos was either in the dugout or somewhere else because he was not in the infield. Watching that made me hate him even more.  It was fun to watch the big red machine destroy the cardinals.  Now the Reds on the other hand looked pretty good.

Sorry for the long posr.  Todays game should be interesting.  Hope Mccutcheon has a great game.  Is tis his first game in the majors?  I know he wasn't up last year was he up the year before.

I rather see Andy in the two hole and move Morgan to 7 or 8 maybe 8th if the pitcher bats 8?  Thoughts?

And also to the new bloggers--please add an avatar so we can follow the posts easier.  Just click on my name for instructions and remember that the photo must be on your computer and it will not appear immediately.

When you add an avatar it will appear on all of your past posts making it much easier to find them when we look back for certain comments.

FormerSoxFan wrote re: Pirates vs. Mets, 6-4-09: McCutchen leads off

on Thu, Jun 4 2009 3:07 PM

Looking at Bay's numbers with the Red Sox is not an accurate way of evaluating that trade.  You have to look at what he did here, and what he could reasonably be projected to have done here had he not been traded.

That is the only way to look at the trade, I almost posted the same idea but saw your is time and that is what makes the bay trade seem better to me everyday.

The Yankees should be #1 in attendance as they have a few more people to draw from than most teams:)

Good morning, Luckydog, Bizzy, Pgh_Fan_in_NH, Joey, Macs, FormerSox (LOVE the new avatar!), Piratefan2003, Marty, KIDD!, BobDH, JJ, FMarino, Trip Trip Trip Triple G, BJM, Kraig, 48jj, PI, JAL, Diehard, Hoss, AlaskanBucco, Kragbax and Rumbunter ...

"With McCutch and Morgan leading at the top of the line,

We're talkin' Small Ball Divine!"

OK, if McCutcheon singles and Morgan base knocks him over to third, WHO in their right mind is going to try to catch Nyjer stealing? And, OK, I forgot this isn't Little League ball ... I'm just sayin' 'I like it!'

I' bet before too long we see them put one of them down at the other end of the lineup, so as to have table setters on both ends. This is starting to sound like a BBC production ("table setters on both ends?" Get it ... MUAHAHAHAHA!)

Can't believe I'm working dayside today. I go in at 10:30 ... I have a pretty good working relationship with the manager. I live two miles away ... It's going to be like, "I'm going home for the game ... If we have any (pizza) deliveries, give me a call. I'll be right up to take them!"

I'd say "good morning" but honestly, I'm not feeling it.

BK...man, do I feel your frustration.  I wish it wasn't this that brought you back to talk to us for a  bit.

macs...I'm relying on the Roche Coach myself today.  

I am glad to see McCutchen here, especially if they feel he's ready to be here.  But the reason why still stings.  I feel like my next door neighbor suddenly moved away.

I would appreciate not being told how I need to react to this though.  That truly ticks me off and it's not right.  I am aware this is a business as much as a game, but that doesn't mean I can't react emotionally to trades.  Nate has been a Pirate for as long as I've been a Pirates fan -- most of you know I'm fairly new to this team and city -- so I think this will take me longer to let go than either Bay or Nady.

I do NOT think this was a salary dump though.  I do not believe they were shopping him and as much as I don't think NH understands how this is being viewed here, I do think he thinks he's getting a lot in return.  He makes the big bucks to make these decisions and he knows it's his tail on the line if nothing works.  I don't think he would have signed off on the trade if he didn't feel he got something good back in return.    That's what I think.

Having said that...Nate...I wish you well.  I have very much enjoyed seeing you play and will continue to do so, except when you're playing us.  :-)

Triple G - Joe, McCutchen has 8 TRIPLES LET ME REPEAT 8 TRIPLES! in a third of a year.

I saw him round first a few weeks ago and i was "FLOORED" Guys he is scary fast.

@Luckydog

Comparing the Pirates to the Penguins is ridiculous. There is something called a salary cap in the NHL. Ever hear of it? And Pens have only sold out the past 3 seasons, and hockey is a much more exciting game than baseball.

I agree Madturk.  I assumed Morgan would move down in the lineup as well.  I guess JR wanted to keep Andy in the middle of the lineup for whatever pop he can provide.

I like it a lot.   I honestly love this trade, for no reason other than we needed to get Cutch up here.   HE is our CF of the future, and has been for a while.  Nate had the most value, ad he definitely brought back a lot in return.  This makes us a better franchise, and I think we are finally headed in the right direction.  Nate might have been a really good player, but he was no better than Bay or even Nady last year.   I wouldn't be surprised, or disappointed, to see Doumit go when he is healthy too, consdering the play we've seen from catcher while he's been out.  

Most of all, I like that NH isn't sitting around hoping we get good. We've seen enough of that in 16 years.  He's actually doing something about it for a change.  

Prediction - We're better with Cutch than we were with Nate, from here on out THIS year as well.

@madturk - could be interesting to move Morgan to 7 or 8, but I'l glad they're going to try the "speed up front" attack first.  We could get some quick runs up front if all three of those guys hit.

Sure is bittersweet to see Cutch come up like this but I have to say the only thing dimming my sadness is the prospect of seeing/hearing him play today.

How weird will it be next week to play AGAINST Nate?

regarding the lineup

If Nyjer learns to be a much better bunter than he is now,  him and McCutch could be very dangerous when McCutch gets on base

Too bad the game isn't televised.  I went to set my DVR last night and everything.

Hmmm . . . how strange . . . I feel a bit of a cough coming on.

Sox fan great comments.  Look who bay has around him.  Hes getting ome great pitches.  If he was here he would be swining at junk or walking.  Heres a stat for someone to look up.  Strike outs and walks for Bay before and after the  trade.  

DMAC, very nice words today.

I like Freddy at the number three spot.  watch him cut down on the strike outs.  the mnm boys gets you an extra base with freddy's line drives and it will make up for some of the soda.

@FormerSox - I think a New York channel has it.  I set the dvr last night.  I have DirecTV.  MLB.TV should carry that feed along with the radio feeds.

It's weird even with McLouth gone I still feel that we can pull of a winning season this year with Cutch.  anyone else feel the same way?

I watched Andrew in Indy a few weeks ago...on McCutchen Day. He is a very personable kid with a very entusiastic work ethic and more importantly, a SWEET swing (got some great pix of it as well). I think he will have a great debut today. Sad to see Nate go, but he had reached his peak--and the front office knew it all along. Nate's UPSIDE was now...not July 31st.

MLB.TV is $100 to watch any game on any computer plus games you have missed (all season). I dont get broadcast channels of the Pirates in Indiana so this is a great alternative. Better than the Direct TV MLB package (and cheaper). I will be watching the game today (via New York's Fox Sports).

JBAYS stats as a Pirate

5 seasons he averaged 29hr and 92 rbi's  

do you see that kind of production from either Moss or lil Laroche individually ??  combined ?

how else can you evaluate the trade? it served two purposes as did this one with the main one being improving the bottom line. The Pirates are not williing to take a chance on winning, rather play it safe with a bunch of minor leaguers hoping for the best, knowing with revenue sharing they will make money regardless of the record.

As for comparisons to the Penguins MTR you are making my point: winning = Fans You say the Pens have sold out every game for three seasons with an avg ticket price over $60 ?  add to it a 50yr old arena with limited parking.

Pretty amazing IMO.

The Pirates have been losers since 1992. Mr. Nutting, Sell the team, make boatloads of money, get on one of those boats and head down the Ohio to Wheeling..........PLEASE !!

and don't come back.

@Thundercrack--<IF and COULD>

17 years of IF and COULD is wearing me out. There was no IF's or COULD w/ Nate.

@piratefan2003 - I really want to get to that thinking.  I'm a bit worried that depression will drag the team down now.  We saw some of that with the trades last year and Jack is already vocal about not being happy.

piratefan2003 - re- winning season

IMO much depends on how the clubhouse takes this move, they are professionals but here we are 4 games under 500 and one leg was cut off with an eye towards the future, or so its said.  With July trade deadline, other vets will most probably be moving.

Seriously, did we get our socks knocked off with the return?  Looks like the OF we got is a McCutch/Nyjmo clone??

macsinthebox wrote re: Pirates vs. Mets, 6-4-09: McCutchen leads off

on Thu, Jun 4 2009 3:19 PM

Triple G - Joe, McCutchen has 8 TRIPLES LET ME REPEAT 8 TRIPLES! in a third of a year

 Macs, will he be hitting them to the notch, is that one of his power alleys?

I have 1 question for everyone and will be very interested to read what replies I get to this....

GOD FORBID, PLEASE.....

What happens IF Andrew struggles, fails, or worse gets injured? You going to jog Hinske, Monroe, Young out there?

Sorry folks THIS IS A LOAD OF SH**

I truly feel sorry for this kid for the shoes he has to fill if he struggles.

DMAC, Completely understand your feelings and to give people a day to "heal"  i am giving my JUNE 12 CRUSADE a break today but i will be back at it tomorrow:}

Biz

Seriously, did we get our socks knocked off with the return?  Looks like the OF we got is a McCutch/Nyjmo clone??

I don't see this lineup today any worse than the one that took the field on Tuesday, possibly better in some ways.

There is no reason to think this team is going to lose because of this move. We all will miss Nate, I thought the world of him, but baseball moves on.

McCutchen is an upgrade not a downgrade, he can give a team energy, something Nate could  not do.

As far as the return, only time will tell about that, but we did get at least 2 players with above average talent and that has and is one of the top problems with this organization, lack of above average talent.

Well off to the game, should not have a problem getting a seat.

@BK,

I'm with you, 17yrs of if, could, would, should....5 yr plan times 3, give me a break. They want a bunch of 0-3 players on their club. Followed by more 0-3 player to restock the mlb team for when they trade the 0-3 players for more 0-3 players to add depth.

location disclosure: wow-a beautiful morning here on the left central coast in CA.

a new day in the burgh:

attack of the small ball.

a new motto: 'a culture of winning [in a few years]'.

jBay to date in '09: we would be happy with those stats from one of our guys at the END of the season, let alone now.

that said, welcome young clutch/cutch! dude we are all behind you. cutch+nyjmo+freddy=scrappy+slappy+into the gappy=runs

LETS GO BUCS!

with that group on the bases maybe doumit will still get 100 rbi. and .500 is not a lost dream, but my hr count is on the floor of the ohio river under some mud.

Two thoughts:

1. Today at least, someone at PBC had a great P.R. sense.  When i saw Andrew at the top of the lineup, my pulse raced a little faster.

2. BobDH posted about an hour ago: "Look at the big picture.  People in this blog have been saying for years for the Pirates to be more like the A's, Twins, and Marlins.  Well, the A's, Twins, and Marlins REGULARLY make trades llike this.  Get used to it."  TRUE...but the critical thing is whether PBC gets as much in return as A's etc get.  The CONCEPT of the trade doesnt bother me.  It comes down to EXECUTION.  I'm not going to judge this trade yet, but our FO futures or gravestones will be carved in a few years based on their 08 and 09 players-for-prospects trades.

KIDD! Don't feel sorry for Andrew ... Would you feel sorry for Mickey Mantle? Some may have ... "ballyhooed" as Finder calls it, he went like 0 for 50 his first trips to the plate, and was sent back down to AAA, BUT he's destined for superstardom ...

Also, to some degree, I'd say we've done pretty well by playing Hinske, Morgan and Young so far ... We won't be any worse off than we were before if McCutcheon has a rough go of it at first.

Macs, will he be hitting them to the notch, is that one of his power alleys?

Joe simply YES!

The first ball he hits in the "NOTCH" and is mishandled i really feel he could go inside the park HR, i honestly believe that.

Recent Cutch story:

About a month ago i was in Indy and caught an indians game.  In the 1st inning Andrew hit a hard grounder to short and ran towards first.  No, he ROCKETED towards first.  I can never remember - ever - anyone running as fast on a routine grounder.  He was out, and i was more excited from that out than any of the hits i saw that night.  If the scoop and throw hadnt been perfect, he would have beaten it.  And this wasnt a slow roller, it was hit with authority to the SS.

Drew - couldn't agree more.  We won't know for some time, but it's all in the execution.

Good morning Bay!  I hope you get home to watch the game today.  I love your enthusiasm.  It's contagious and I'm all fired up about Cutch.

Thanks for the info Triple G, but since I'm here in Pittsburgh, the game would be blacked out on DirecTV and MLB.tv, unfortunately.  And I have too much work to do today to take a half day.  Radio it is.

The guy who is going to pay the price for this trade is not necessarily Cutch, it's Ryan Doumit. When Ryan comes back, there won't be anyone else in the lineup to hit for power. (Remember, Adam LaRoche is one of the next to go.) Ryan will never see another good pitch again.

I packed it in early last night and did not see news of the trade until I opened the Richmond paper this morning and saw the article which centered on the Braves. I felt like someone in my family had died.

I am not convinced this was purely a salary dump. The team does need depth. But at what point will the FO start paying attention to the fans and keep a player fans want to come out and see?

Macs and Drew - just to clarify, you're saying that Cutch is faster than Morgan fast?

BK...I wouldn't mind seeing Young out there, if heaven forbid, bad things happened.  I don't think he's played enough to adjust to PNC's oddities.  He could be better, but I think he has better speed than either of the other 2...JMO.  And except for those AB's in Chicago, he normally has some really good plate appearances.  He lacks power, but could be another doubles machine.  

I think it's probably a good thing NH isn't in the clubhouse today -- I doubt he'd get a very warm reception.  

Recent Cutch story:

"About a month ago i was in Indy and caught an indians game.  In the 1st inning Andrew hit a hard grounder to short and ran towards first.  No, he ROCKETED towards first.  I can never remember - ever - anyone running as fast on a routine grounder.  He was out, and i was more excited from that out than any of the hits i saw that night.  If the scoop and throw hadnt been perfect, he would have beaten it.  And this wasnt a slow roller, it was hit with authority to the SS."

@Drew great story, when the "HOME FOLK" watch him run, some of the sting of losing Nate will go away.

GGG, Bay and others - I think what this asylum desperately needs is a GAME.  No more rainouts!

@Bay--<Mickey>

I feel you my friend, I really do. I just feel we have been sold a bill of goods once again. I have nothing against AM being here, Good Luck and GOD Bless, him.

We were told...May I remind you and everyone else, especially the newer Inmates, We were told, to our faces at Primanti Brothers, by none other than Frank Coonelly, that "Nate is a cornerstone of this franchise along with....and look forwrd to them being here a long long time."

FC was no more than 5 feet away from me when he said that. I understand that this is a business but you are supposed to TRY and come out on top when you make trades. 3 relatively unproven prospects.... and average at best IMO.

This just does not make sense or add up to me IMO.

GGG - I did the pop-out-eye thing when i saw him run.  I can't prove he's faster than Morgan since i never saw them race, but note who is top of the lineup tonight...a spot usually reserved for the fastest?

DMac & Cheese -

>>I think it's probably a good thing NH isn't in the clubhouse today - I doubt he'd get a very warm reception.<<

More likely, someone would pull him behind a locker and rough him up.

It will be interesting to see how the play on the field is affected. Fact is, players in the clubhouse are not and should not be favorably impressed with moves made to strengthen the future. Their job is to perform NOW, so dealing a key piece of TODAY for the future cannot be expected to sit well for them.

Bk- I'm more concerned with a pitching staff that has pitched well and has to be more frustrated over the lack of run support.  The team just beat the Mets twice.

Give Clutch some time.  

The major problem I have with this trade is that the comments sound like the previous regime "above-average".  

If the Yankees called and said "Phil Hughes for McClouth", I'm doing that deal (or if the Red Sox said "Buckholz and ...").

Stupid thought here, but why not folow in Larussa footsteps here and bat our pitcher 8th. Think about it. Nyjer would be a great #9 hitter.

McCutchen CF

Andy L 3B

Freddy ( I hate Freddy in the 3 hold, we have no one else) 2B

Adam L 1B

Moss RF

Jaramillo C

Wilson SS

Pitcher

Morgan LF

And even as I type that it looks unimpressive, but add Doumit back and it looks a little better...

What do you think?

I've been told it's my turn to walk the dogs.  Off for a bit.

Pardon if this link was already published. There are so many posts and I didn't see it. It's a new blog entry this morning from Bob Smizik. This is in addition to his post last night.

community.post-gazette.com/.../mclouth-deal-bold-gamble-worth-taking.aspx

BK

If Cutch struggles at first, no big deal--remember Andy's 0-20 start, remember Moss hitting .186.    Maybe he will not struggle at all but if he does for a month no worry.  If he plays the rest of the season and still struggles, then worry a bit.  

Barry Bonds played 113 games his first year and hit .223, though he did show signs of what was to come with 16 HR.  If Cutch hits around .250 I will not be worried.  If he plays 100 games and hits .175, then I worry.

@G-Man

"More likely, someone would pull him behind a locker and rough him up."

Did we get rid of Shawn Chacon a few years ago? ZING!

Hey all.  I am a lurker living in San Fran.  I post like once a year, but I had to add something.  (I will try to do the avatar thing)

I don't love that we had to make this trade, but I love that we did this now.

The best part of how we handled Bay/Nady last year was that we traded one to a place that increased the market for the other.  By trading Nady to the Yankees, we increased the Sox urgency.  We got as much as we could - I think we all forget that you only can take what the other team offers.  We were not making the playoffs before Nady and Bay both left, so we got the best we could by creating a little leerage.

This trade actually will up the ante in an ULTRA-competitive 3-team race, not to mention wildcard teams.  Our chips will have greater value now, and we got three guys who could play in Pittsburgh- not bad for a .261 hitter with decent power, but not a 3 hole-hitter.  Carlos Lee's name is out there (coming to SF), Nate's value wasn't going up.

This also demonstrated we are rebuilding.  Thank God.  That gives me hope.  We weren't going anywhere this year anyway.

Back to my shadows...keep the faith for 2 more years...

If NH were in the clubhouse today, I'd hope there wouldn't be a Chacon incident.  

Something I just thought about. If this WAS a salary dump, it increased the likelihood that Freddy Sanchez could be the Pirates All Star representative and thus increased the probability of his $8M+ option year automatically kicking in. Does that make Freddy the next guy to be traded?

@JAL--<AM Struggle>

As ususal, you come through in the clutch. I will sit patiently and wait.

I really do want him to be super successful here w/ the PBC...Not since Bonds have we had this type of anticipation surrounding a player.

I like your lineup, CullenH!

Macs and Drew - just to clarify, you're saying that Cutch is faster than Morgan fast?

Im with Drew, i truly think Cutch is faster, but a dual 40 test may be required.

McCutchen looks like he was a track guy, he runs with more precision, NYJMO is just plain fast.

Advantage= CUTCH

G-man...I was trying to be nice, but I'd say that's not far from the truth.

...and I agree with you on Ryan being the one to feel the brunt of this, at least until someone else shows some power.  

Drew and others,

I fully agree that the execution of the trade is critical.  I am just happy that we have a FO that is willing to make trades like this in the first place. That is progress.  The concept of making unpopular trades with an eye to the future rather than making trades/FA signs to placate the fan base is even greater progress.

As for trading McLouth giving up on this season, I do not see that at all.  Cutch will improve the team in some ways.  

The lack of power is distressing though.  

macs

Good to see your smiling face on the Roche Coach here for a day or two. I'm glad to have you on board, though I wish it hadn't come this way.

All

Why are we pretending that Cutch won't develop power? He's 22! He has ALWAYS been projected to develop some power as he grew.  He's FIVE YEARS younger than Nate McLouth, who never hit the ball with as much authority as Andrew has. At 22, by the way, Nate hit 4 triples and 8 homers at AA Altoona. In 515 at bats. Cutch is WAY ahead of him.

I loved Nate, but it is a fact that going into last year he was almost statistically identical to Matt Murton. And they're the same age.  There's no reason to think that any of our outfielders other than Morgan couldn't develop Nate's type of power. In the minors, Nate hit 40 homers in 2096 at bats (about 4 full seasons of at bats).  Ten per year. Not exactly lighting it up.  McCutchen in the minors, by the way: 43 homers in 1967 at bats. And he was at AAA by 21, whereas Nate wasn't there until age 23. AND Cutch only got 201 at bats at AAA as a 22 year old.  If you liked Nate's power, you're going to love Cutch's.

DMac

I agree with a lot of your points.  Any chance you'll be doing PBP to guide us through Cutch's debut?

CDBrewer,

Nice insight about building urgency.

@WSB--<Beating Mets>

They were handcuffed somewhat by injuries (Mets) but a win is a win....

gMan- while I enjoy his talk and summer bat, I agree adLa is history one way or another as a rent-a-stud in the summer. but we can't wait for tabita, et al, we MUST get some slg production SOON from anLA  and moss. one of them needs to develop as the 5 hole for production. not necessarily 40 hr stuff, but mid 20's. our only hope. the 3 run homer must be in our arsenal  to be competitive.

LETS GO BUCS! sink the mets!

Did Jack get the pig flu from those d*mn Mets?!

                                ANNOUNCEMENT  

we will be meeting at Finnegans wake today after the game.

>>Jack Wilson was a late scratch due to the stomach flu.<<

Don't get me wrong; I'm not questioning JW's integrity. But we all now about labor issues with teachers and police and stuff like "the Blue Flu" 'nat. And, frankly, if I was a Pirate today, my stomach would be in an uproar. Mine is and I'm only a fan.

JJ -

You can probably save gas money and just attend the wake at PNC today. With the mood in the clubhouse, does anyone really expect much today? I feel bad for Ohlendorf. Our starters get only 0-2 run support about half the time as it is.

Looks to me like Jack has contracted Nutting Flu. He's sick of this. And so are the rest of us.

NuHo

Don't know if you saw it, but right after the trade broke, I announced that my entire attitude was moving toward the NuHo line. (And some of my language probably moved there as well.)  A few others immediately jumped in and followed me.  I will try my best to stave it off and remain in the Plenty of Hope Zone, if for no other reason than to keep up our lively banter. But its hard when, regarding the payroll, ITS A CULTURE OF THINNING!

JJ -

Oops! I did not realize there's a real place called Finnegan's Wake near the park. Thought you were being funny. :-)

BAB -

>>I will try my best to stave it off and remain in the Plenty of Hope Zone<<

I'm having trouble finding that zone this morning.

POH -

If you're out there, PLEASE post something encouraging. I need some hope and you're my only hope, pun intended.

BaB, i realize i am a dubios member of the ROACH COACH but i honestly am an Andy guy and Adam, well i am hopeful but i am not a hipocryte. So i deserve the day or two jab.

     Kudos to you for the way your handling this.

could have had Mcutch and Mclouth both for the next four seasons, no need for the trade. Who is our worst outfielder right now ??  move him and replace with AM, not Mclouth. Everyone loves to point out Mclouth is not that good, tell me, for the money we are paying mclouth, only 27yrs old and coming in to his prime, signed for the next 4 yrs at < than $4mm per,  who is better ? Beltran - what is his salary ?

DK,

Is Jack Wilson's stomach ailment a form of protest?

We did not trade Mcutch for Mclouth, we had them both in the fold, one for 4 plus seasons and the other for 6 plus this one. How was Mclouth blocking him when you have a RF with 2hr 1/3 in to the season with > than 20 rbi batting in the middle of the order ?

The chant at the game today should be "SELL THE TEAM"   "SELL THE TEAM" !!

macs

As JHadar says: "We're all in this together."  And today, it just isn't pretty. I know you are skeptical about Adam. I understand why, too. I loathe Vasquez. Deep, true, enmity. But today, I'm not talking about that. I hope he goes 9-9.  Today, we've got to turn the page. And if Adam is our homerun threat, so be it. He's going to have to be, for now.  

Hopefully Ryan gets back soon. And hopefully Moss and Andy start finding their power strokes.  

Let's go all "Major League" on Nutting. Ownership is trying to pull the plug on yet another season. Maybe the clubhouse can pull together and rally around the "nobody is giving us a chance" mantra.  Or something.

NuHo

Just wait, Jack is going to come out tomorrow with a Nutting mask on, complete with the red circle-with-slash logo we all know and love.

It is really nice to see some passion stirred up on the Blog, but we have got to face reality.

The Pirates do not have a system of prospects that can be used to trade for better Major League players.  If you want to blame anyone, blame the Pirates' management and front office staff from the late '80s and early '90s that did not have the foresight to build a system of player development.  Why didn't the team of the early '90s continue?

I mentioned it in last night's post.  It isn't the first time it has happened, and Nate McLouth is not the second coming of Willie Mays.

The Braves just gave up "3" prospects for one player.  The past GM Schuerholz built a fine system.  The Braves have a system, and the Pirates do not yet.

Perhaps we could use the two new pitchers we got from the Braves for, say, Matt Cain?

I guess my opinion rests more in line with CDBrewer's.

I live in Saint Louis and I am always astonished to see new talent pop up in LaRussa's lineup:  Colby Rasmus, Tyler Greene and Brian Barden to name a few.  Walt Jocketty, who is in Cincinnati now where the Reds are above .500, built a system.

I understand the winning now attitude but I cannot fault NH and FC for the transaction yesterday.  I am afraid we may be seeing a few more losing seasons, BUT I am still a Pirates fan and bleed black and gold.

Damik,  I see that you are in town!

How do you like the Gateway to the West?

I agree.  It is great to see the HATED Cardinals lose big.

Someone earlier wanted to know where we all live - I live in Kansas near KC.  Am happy to say I am meeting my brother from Idaho and my dad and uncle from Illinois next weekend in Pittsburgh for the series against Detroit.  We try to make it one weekend a year.

I still have mixed feelings about the trade but have to hand it to NH and FC... they said from the beginning there would be moves made that fans would not be happy with but would be best for the organization.  I truly hope this is one of those moves.

Someone ealier said bat Nyjer 9th, I was talking to my brother last night and suggested the same thing.  Not a bad idea!  Going to be an interesting couple of days and I look forward to see how the team reacts on the field today.

pghfaninstl

Matt Cain is going to be an All-Star. The Giants don't want two minor league arms for him. They want a 25+ homer left handed first baseman or outfielder. Nate would've gotten you Matt Cain. The Giants have very good rotation now, and have two of baseball's best pitching prospects (Madison Bumgardner and Tim Alderson) coming up through the system. They're not looking for arms.

With the players feeling as they feel, the next few games will reflect, in my opinion, what kind of manager John Russell is.  I've been a JR defender around here.  So, let's hope he can get the guys to put out the effort.  Not necessarily win, but play with passion, grit, guts, etc.  If he can get that out of his guys, then I'll be happy.

I'm pretty sure Jack Wilson is too professional to be playing sick.  If that's what he's doing, let Bixler play.  These are the times that tell what kind of person you are, and if you're gonna run and hide, then I don't wanna watch you anyhow.  Just my opinion, but like I said, I'm pretty sure Wilson is not faking.

@FormerSoxFan and GGG

Morgan-

Yep it should be interesting to see him at number 2 for now.  He will need to pick up the hitting though.  He has been slacking off.  Later maybe the two leadoff type with him down in the order may be the ticket.  I wil lgive it a shot for now but he needs to start hitting again.

Tough times call for tough decisions, and this trade was definitely tough on many in the fan base. You could look long and hard at Nate McLouth the player and find maybe one or two flaws, but Nate the man was pretty stellar all the way around. Other than being a Red Wings fan, the guy embodied exactly what PBC fans love to see on their field. I wish him the best.

On to Cutch...would really prefer to see him in left field in order to decrease his defensive burden (at least on the road) so he could concentrate a bit more on his offense rather than the cavernous CF and PNC. Gotten to see him play many times here in Louisville and the guy can play...he's fast, but where he really turns on the jets is making his turns around the bases. His light frame flying around a base is almost comic-strip-like, as if your eyes deceive you.

Sad day; emotional day... Beat'em Bucs!

Bucco Fan For Life,

I will be visiting my parents the weekend of June 26 in Pgh and will be getting tickets to see the Royals and hopefully, the Cubs for the next series as well.  It should be fun.

Hopefully, the Bucs can turn their interleague history around this year.  Say Hello to Leyland for me.

The first thing you will probably notice about AMac is the rifle.This is a gun he is going to be using on the opposition.The defense will be better,but Drew might have to get used to the notch and all the other quirks.

Sounds like players are as angry and shocked as the fans, also just saw a interesting piece on channel 4, and the main thing they said they couldn't be more true was, "Where do the Pirates go from here?" Which is very true where? NH and FC just proved they don't care at all about winning. This year is really going to go downhill now IMO, management doesn't care, so I think the players will start to have a hard time trying to care.

@NuHo

I wondered that too about Wilson LOL

Welcome Bucco Fan For Life, thanks for the word on where you live, will add it to the list tonight, don't think Kansas was on there before.

Re moves - I just hope this is a good move and we didn't get snookered, one time, just one time, I'd like to hear "PBC made a good move and got all they could..."  then my stomach wouldn't feel like JWs does today all the time...

JR has his work cut out for him I think, trying to talk to the team.  I don't envy his job...in fact, I don't think he could smooth me over today.

I'm with the rest of the players on this, right now.  

Someone asked about PBP...I shall do my best to keep up.

BAB

" announced that my entire attitude was moving toward the NuHo line."

Mine has as well.

Well I must say I missed the boat on this one. I figured last night was just a rainy day and I check in this morning and BABOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a personal aside, I must say there is quite a bit of irony in all of this. I happened to catch part of Madden's show on the radio yesterday and he kept talking about his encounter the night before with the KDKA   reporter whom Nate is dating after the Penguin game. Now this. Wow.

pghfanistl -

I am excited to see Leyland and Van Slyke!  You have a good chance of seeing a few wins if you go to the Royals series.  KC is calling for Hillman to be fired, they are awful!

Always great to be in PGH, enjoying ballgames at the "Best Ballpark in America"!  Have fun!

Well best of luck to Cutch. You've made it young man! Make the best of it.

Thanks Bizrow!

@CullenH wrote re: Pirates vs. Mets, 6-4-09: McCutchen leads off

on Jun 4, 2009 11:10 AM

Stupid thought here, but why not folow in Larussa footsteps here and bat our pitcher 8th. Think about it. Nyjer would be a great #9 hitter.

McCutchen CF

___________

Yep I stated earlier that having Andy at 2 and Morgan at 8 or 9 would be something to look at.  Not bad!

DK,

The FO sold out on this team.

Why don't the veterans such as Adam LaRoche, Freddy Sanchez, Jack Wilson, Ryan Doumit, Paul Maholm, Zach Duke, John Grabow, Eric Hinske, Craig Monroe, and Ramon Vasquez all request a trade through their agents?

It is within their rights isn't it?

Many thanks to new posters who have added avatars--makes things much easier.

My thought in general on the trade:

Sure, right now, it's tough. The team wasn't doing great but was respectable so far and doing better than what most predicted before the start of the season.  Despite what some Ulitmate Zone Rating stat said, Nate was a very good outfielder and obviously, one the offensive lynchpins of the club.

However, the Pirates seem to be perpetually stuck in this cycle where they have a few good players but never enough to be a truly good team.

I can understand where Neal Huntingdon is coming from in trying to stock the minors with talent. The Pirates need to try to field a team in the future that is loaded with young talent at every  position and have backups in the minors. That's what other teams have done around baseball and we have also seen this locally with the Penguins as well. That's the only way to truly build a championship contending team for a franchise like the Pirates.

Hopefully this trade, as painful as it is right now, will be the start of truly great things for the future.

Sad to see Nate go,but Minnesota ,Oakland,Rays,Marlins etc all went thru this.It's not the same as it used to be.We all hate it,but I for one think it's a necessary evil so we might as well get used to it.This ain't the 60s and 70s folks.

I hope the players take thier anger out on the Mets!

DK

Thanks for the clubhouse info--sounds like it much like the bog.  I understood the Bay and Nady trades much better.  I will never understand how you can trade an All-star who signed for several years and leads the the team in HR and RBI without getting at least one player who a is  good MLB player--doesn't have to be star but at least someone who has been hitting about .280 with 15 to 20 HR's for a couple of years.

DK,

When you say that the players are far angier than last year when the front office dumped Bay and Nady, do you anticipate any sort of response by the players?

Trade requests, union protest, mysterious ailments, lack of hustle or desire, etc?

This owner has already endured one fan protest and it seems to me he is on the verge of losing the support of his entire ballclub. I'm just wondering what, if any direction this thing could potentially go.

Anyone can understand the "BOYS" reaction hopefully they channel their anger in a positive way.

BaB, i am keeping my trap shut about SS today as well.

We are all in this together!

Craig/Silver Spring MD US

Everyone in hear has heard it before - that there's 'no crying in baseball'  .. . .

but as I'm reading Dejan's description of Nate

leaving the clubhouse . .. I .. . .I didn't fold - but may have I felt

what he was feeling .. a little bit of dejection.. major sadness..

frustration topped off with confustion. . . and choked up. ..

Nate wanted to help the team, city and Pirate Fan through this awful stretch. ..

I don't even know what the hell I'm typing or why anymore . ...

Meds please.. ... .

Christ. . ..

Stats..  W/L records. . Endless equations and descriptions of what the Pirates are, were, could, should be . ...

Right now I feel like just a dude with a cap with the letter 'P' on it - a cap

I wear every single day just about. ..

On top of it being a 'tough day', now i have to deal with the Mets play by play team for a few hours. . .

Thanks for all the details and honest reporting Dejan . .

I guess I'll get over this soon, 'cause every time I see how well JBay is doing, I'm happy for him and can smile. .

again . .. .  MEDS PLEASE!!!'

i just updated my avatar.. hopefully it works

after sleeping , waking up, i dont know where i stand on the trade.. but im not gonna go to either side until we see how these prospects turn out

BAB,

I was just trying to make the point that with better quality prospects, the Bucs have more leverage in future negotiations.

Nate would NOT have gotten Matt Cain.  I have to disagree with you there.

anyone know why my avatar isnt showing?

JAL,

" I will never understand...."

Dude, haven't you been listening to a word I have said since the day we met?

It's a very easy thing for an owner or front office that is solely concerned with profit and has little or no regard for winning, or respect for the responsibility a MLB club should have for the fans and taxpayers that support said club with a publically funded ballpark, not to mention the peer owners who support the deadbeat owner with shared monies based entirely on their success with no contribution whatsover from the PBC.

Bob Nutting is nothing more than a blight upon this city and upon MLB. The sooner people realize this, the better off they will be.

When viewed in that light, it is not a difficult thing to understand at all.

;-)

Is there anything harder in all of sports than being a fan of the PBC?  

I'll work on the avatar thing :)

Here's the thing:  If the PLAYERS THEMSELVES feel cheated and the rug pulled out from under them, are we the FANS not allowed to feel that too?

I'm not saying the Pirates were going to win the division, but with the problems the Cubs and Cardinals are having, 6 1/2 games is not an insurmountable deficit by any means.  And at 24-28 it's not like we were the Nationals.

I am sick and tired of hearing about rebuilding for the future.  If we CONTINUOUSLY are trading our TOP players and not getting TOP prospects in return (and there aren't any of those in this deal, unless you consider the Atlanta farm system as a strong one) then you are doing nothing more then trying to make more money.

Did anyone else notice the difference in attendence from 26th to the Pirates in 30th?  ALMOST 110,000!!!

The fans are voting, and they should continue to vote with their feet and wallet.

Found this comment in today's Chicago Tribune interesting.....

"As scheduled, the Pirates quit on the season that has four months to go and just traded their best player to the Braves for three prospects so they could promote a center fielder whom they are scheduled to trade in three years when they’re out of the race by June 1 again. Lather, rinse, repeat."

Beltran doubles to deep center. Apparently, Cutch doesn't walk on water. I thought all hits to center would be voided now that he was out there. ;-)

Okay, fellow inmates...

Ohlie deals and works to a 2-1 count on Cora.  Cora then popped it to shallow CF.  McCucthen makes the catch, 1 away.

Castillo takes a called strike, 0-1.  Grounds the next one to SS....Vazquez to Adam, 2 away.

Beltran...ugh...takes a ball.  Then lines the next one to the gap in R-CF and it's off the RF wall.  McCutchen fields and throws it in...Beltran is in safe with a double.  

Sheffield takes a ball, 1-0.  Looks at a called strike, 1-1.  Swings and misses, 1-2.  And on a delayed call by the umpire...he goes down looking on called strike 3.  Side retired.

Mets don't score, Pirates coming to bat.

NuHo

The scary part of that Tribune article is how many people believe that. 6.5 games is NOT out of anything. Its a JOKE that ownership quits on this team. Last year's team had a fighting chance, but couldn't get the pitching online. Okay, I get it. This year's team had a fighting chance. The pitching is coming around. And the hitting should improve with Doumit coming back. Bring Cutch up anyway, find a spot for him, and we could have had something. As I said, its a JOKE.

Base hit for Cutch!

McCutchen first at bat single!

BASE HIT ANDREW MCCUTCHEN! HE WALKS ON WATER!

emoney

My thought too--the team was doing better than many predicted--showing some growth.  

The trade may work out but my initial thought is they should have gotten more than they did.  I mean Jeff Locke--high A with a 5.52 ERA,  26 walks and 43 K in 45.2 innings along with 6 WP--if you were going the get a A level player I would have liked to see someone who is dominating at that level.

Nice start Andrew  base hit

Nate who?

Congrats on the callup, Andrew. Congrats on the first hit as well.

Wow, the Nate dump has even shaken the faith of Bob Nutting's loyal servant John Perotto....

www.piratesreport.com/.../Bucs-needed-to-get-a-premium-prospect-for-McLouth.html

Single for Nyjer!

McCutchen singles to lead off, Nyjer singles him to 3rd . . . just like they drew it up!!!

did anyone see Andrew round 2nd?

TheBarskEffect

Not sure--did you look at the instructions I have and take all the steps?  

NyjMo (pause a moment for JL, who has left us...he so loved the MVP....okay...) with a base hit and we've got something cooking! First and third, NOOOOOOOOOOBODY OUT!

Congrats Andrew on the hit, and a great start for the Buccos!

Congrats Andrew on the hit, and a great start for the Buccos!

Nice start for McCutcheon.  On pace to bat 1.000.

Need something else to fume about?  ESPN.com's Keith Law has us taking the catcher from Boston College--his 29th rated prospect who he has projected as a high-level backup to middling starter--with the fourth pick in the draft.  It's close enough to happening that he felt the need to note that "no deal is in place" yet.

BAB,

Unfortunately, the joke is on us. And the remaining players.

Hostage

Of course i have followed your posts--what I do not understand is what they got for him.  When they traded Nady, not as good as Nate, they got a MLB ready pitcher as part of the deal--pitching today.  

@macs - That was some scary fast base running!  It looked weird!

Hostage -- Earlier you asked JAL  << Are you still looking at 2010 as the year the club must start winning? >>

I can give you the same answer that I gave you to that very question earlier this week.

YES

Nate is a solid player (not a superstar), but his departure does not set this team back any # of years in my opinion. The short term gain to replace some of the games that Nate would have been the deciding factor in may be off-set by Morton bolstering our pitching staff. You know that I feel that Snell is hurting this team right now.

I don’t know how much run production we will loose by replacing Nate with McCutchen, but we shouldn’t suffer defensively at all.

Nate is a fan favorite, and there is no way that this is going to go over well with them. It definitely required a lot of courage to pull the trigger on this deal because this is definitely NOT A SALARY DUMP; Nate’s contract was a good one from the PBC.

Anyway, I want and expect a winning team in 2010; otherwise I’ll be right with you.

Macs,

"did anyone see Andrew round 2nd?"

No, but tell me, how does he wear his stirrups? High or low?

I mean, this is really the only kind of thing Pirate fans can be interested in these days.

Pitching around Adam?  Come on, Andy!  Go Roach Coach!

Cutch and Morgan back to back hits

From previous thread:

I think not. - It's about time our local government and civic leaders get involved and perhaps consider litigation to end the Nutting era. - This is just flat out wrong. - NH

Hostage, you are absolutely correct. what we were promised and what we got are two different things. In the meantime, RAD $$ that should be going to libraries and parks and museums are being diverted to pay for stadiums whose profits go into private pockets.

This needs to stop.

Further:

I can't imagine Ohlie is jolly.

The thought of trading Duke makes me want to puke.

Retaining Snell is beginning to smell.

Great start for Pirates!!!!

WOW-int walk to Adam in the 1st--guess they want set up possible DP.

Congrats Cutch. 1st at bat, single, and a run scored. 1.000 batting average... look out Ted Williams!  

I hope I don't wake up from this dream...

The new Jolly Roger will be raised today! 2-0 Bucs

Fine start, 2-0 bases loaded  1 out J HAMMER it's up to you guy

Hmmm....2-0 on two RBIs (driving in first hit Cutch) by fan written off Andy LaRoche and good hussle by Moss (written off by you "fans too). All this after a GREAT base-running non-advancement by Cutch on third.

Love it when int walks backfire

First inning of MLB career Cutch gets a hit and scores a run

Jose,

You had me at hello.

I could not agree more.