Morning links: Instant trade reaction

Views of the trade from the blogosphere:

Bucs Dugout:

www.bucsdugout.com/.../nate-mclouth-traded-to-braves

Raise the Jolly Roger:

raisethejollyroger.com/.../nate-mclouth-traded

North Side Notch:

www.northsidenotch.com/.../nate-mclouth-traded-to-atlanta-for-3.html

WHYGAVS:

www.whygavs.com/.../pirates-trade-mclouth-to-braves.html

B.U.C.C.O. Fans.com

www.buccofans.com/.../pirates-trade-mclouth-to-atlanta.html

Mondesi's House:

mondesishouse.blogspot.com/.../mclouth-traded-to-braves.html

Good.  Gorky traded to White Sox (that is the AL Talent Scout) for Gordon Beckman.  

Raise the Jolly Roger, I'm going to bed.  JL please turn the lights out.  

I will need to wash my brain and soul after saying this, but I actually agree with Keith Olbermann's assessment of the trade.

Some day I hope we can trade prospects for major league players but that day is not here yet.

A few writers have mentioned that Morton could be up here sooner rather than later.  Might he be brought up as a long reliever to get some work in under the eyes of Kerrigan, then used as a starter if someone is injures or falters?

I have been taking in all of the reactions to the trade on this blog and find them going from one extreme to the other. I see this as the FO giving up on this season. The clubhouse is now in turmoil, the talent has just lessened a notch and if you think the Bucs had problems scoring runs before, what will they be without their best run producer? It is very hard to determine if we got enough back on this deal and we may not know for years to come. My last comment is this - Ian Snell better start producing very, very soon or Charlie Morton will be in the Bucs' rotation.

@diehard wrote re: Morning links: Instant trade reaction

on Jun 4, 2009 1:07 AM

A few writers have mentioned that Morton could be up here sooner rather than later.  Might he be brought up as a long reliever to get some work in under the eyes of Kerrigan, then used as a starter if someone is injures or falters?

___________

Like Snell?  He needs to step up very soon or trade, send to the pen or demote him.  JMO

@DK

The Sports poll does not have enough options.  Three bad and one good to pick from.  Nothing in the middle ground area.

DK ... thanks for covering the story from the baseball side and from the human side. Articles from other sources don't have reactions from the people involved, but you had quotes from both McLouth and Wilson.

Good night all time to sleep on this trade and see what people come up with tomorrow about it.

This is what happens when you openly root for the Red Wings this time of year.  

I'm very sorry to see Nate McClouth go, my jaw actually dropped and I had to look at the date to see if it happened to be April 1st.  You know, the old "Did you hear the Pirates traded Nate McClouth?"  Let simmer as long as possible, and when asked, "For who?"  you say, "For Aunt Jemima, because she makes a better batter."  Hilarity and slap-fights ensue.

McClouth was becoming my favorite player, and this hurts a lot.  But, I also see this as one of those painfully necessary moves that will hopefully pay dividends down the road.  I just really wish we could've gotten one of those top two prospects from the Braves, after all, they're the ones that approached the Pirates.  

Good luck Nate, I hope I can somehow keep from hating you as I hate everything else about the Braves.  

Stan,

"Raise the Jolly Roger, I'm going to bed.  JL please turn the lights out."

Thanks, Stan. I'm sorry to say that I'm turning in my key, though. Just too much betrayal to deal with from this gang who has taken over our beloved team. I don't claim to speak for, or wish to take with me, anyone else, though. I leave a few more words about this on my profile page.

Wow, a few inmates are breaking out of the asylum! I'll just keep on keepin' on and get double doses of meds. The Bucs are in my blood and the only way I'll get 'em out is when I die. Hang in there team....Beat 'em Bucs!

Thanks for all your effort Nate.We'll all miss you buddy.

 I guess this means the Bucs weren't happy with Gorzo's

7.50 ERA and Snell needs to look over his shoulder.After last year's fiasco of bringing up pitchers from the minors who weren't even close this is more of an insurance policy.SOME were hollering for Cutch and they get their wish.For all you guys I hope you were right.

 This puts a RH hitter in the lineup.We'll have to wait and see but i expect more small ball in the cards.I also wonder if Nate's .256 BA figured in.This makes the OF a little faster and puts a stronger arm out there as well.I'm a little curious as to what this plays out as far as leadoff  and LF and CF.I guess I'll see in 8 or 9 hours

I think the timing of this trade was way too early. If they were going to trade Mclouth, why not wait until the deadline when teams seemingly would give up more. No Sir. I don't like it.

Season ticket packages should come with a 6 month supply of prozac

The latest sham by a group of corporate nuts that currently hold the Pittsburgh Pirates hostage.

Anyone that would fall for this trade (and others in recent years) ought to walk the plank with the rest of the front office.

I'm sicker than sick of it all!

Nutting & goons will turn around and sign a #1 pick and maybe even Sano, in hopes that it will mask their real occupation.

That would be running an on-going "pig farm" .....for the rest of the league.

Gathering players, developing them and then dumping them for future "stinkoids" that cost much less.

It'll prove to be a nice day for the accounting office tomorrow.

Thanks alot....You guys never fail to make the vast majority of Pirate fans sick to their stomachs.

I blame DK for this, last year he praised our OF as being the best in MLB and Bay and Nady get traded, now we have the best defensive OF and Nate gets traded...

Seriously now...  I think this will affect the big team for several years.  What ML player will want to play for this team?  Trading away players you know you wont be able to re-sign, or dont want to re-sign, is one thing but to trade away someone you just signed to a deal and called a corner stone is another.  This trade will have further implications in the losing steak.  It will very likey hit 20 years.

Next on the block, Duke.  He should be at peak value now with his showing this year.  Wilson and Freddy will be next with Mahlom at the deadline.

Ugh.  Glad I haven't spent any $$ on this team this year.

One good thing about the rainout.....we can skip Snell's next start!

was at the game on Saturday night and saw three little kids ... not randomly but in the same family...all wearing No. 13 McClouth jerseys. Bet their hearts are breaking about now.

Have not yet told my wife the news. She does not know much about baseball and never even followed it until she married me but McClouth was her favorite player. She would say "that Mcclouth is a great catcher" and I would say " no baby the catcher is the guy behind the plate. McClouth is a great fielder" And sure enough a few days later she would say the same thing. I gave up trying to correct her. She also liked Kendall and Giles so I think I'm going to ask her not to have a favorite player any more.

this one hurts almost as much as the Bay trade but I can see managements take on this.Count me among those who believe in what management is trying to accomplish by building up the overall talent and depth of the organization.I think anyone who is saying this season is lost for sure now is over reacting. What little success we have had this year has been due to good pitching and great defense and that is not going to change because of this trade.

I have said it before and will say it again  that when NH and FC took over this team they might as well have been starting from scratch with an expansion team. The talent was astonishingly thin to non existent at all levels and unfortunately the few good players end up being traded. NH has said time and again that he would make the hard decisions and the unpopular decisions and not let emotion or fan sentiment get in the way.

So yeah this one hurts but I think in the long run it will work out ok..

Nate you wore the Pirate uniform with pride and class and I hope you know how much you were appreciated. Hope you have a long and successful career.

Look.  I was born a Pirates fan, and I'll always be a Pirates fan.  It just can't be helped.  Those of you who participate on this blog are Pirates fans, too, despite 16 years of sub-mediocrity.  So I suppose you are in the same boat as me......you're going to continue to be Pirates fans.

I can't imagine anyone jumping ship and becoming a Braves fan just so you can follow the career of Nate McLouth.  I liked Nate's performance, his attitude, and his many other fine attributes.  I wish him well in Atlanta.

But since I'm a Pirates fan, my focus is on the Bucs. I think there is a concensus that McCutcheon is the future CF for years to come.  I'm OK with letting the future start today.  Neither Moss nor Morgan was destined to ride the pine in order to make room for Andrew. Nyjer's production and performance has exceeded my expectations.  I love his attitude, and he's an exciting player to watch.  Moss appears suited for PNC's cozy RF and has power potential.  He's more than adequate until Tabata is ready in 3 years. (If you want to claim Moss is on the team as validation for the Bay trade, that's fine, but I'm not gonna play that game.)

So how do you unblock McCutcheon?  Someone had to go, and like it or not, only Nate was going to bring any kind of return.  Sure, I would have preferred to get a corner infielder with pop, but since nobody appeared to be giving away Aramis Ramirez (ouch), the guys we got were as good as we were going to get.

The team that takes the field today will not be any weaker than the team that took the field Tuesday.  It's reasonable to expect that Cutch will be able to play at Nate's level, maybe above.  This is NOT a giant step backwards, and has the potential to improve our chances to win on any given night.  In addition, Ian Snell's replacement will be waiting in the wings at Indy, for those of you who can no longer bear to watch his ineffective nibbling at the outside corner.

On top of that, Locke and Hernandez are just gravy.  It almost seems that NH wants to have a ready supply of speedy, toolsy, leadoff type OFs in the system.  We can't have 3 such guys starting in the OF, but the day may come when Nyjer has trade value, and we could replace him with a clone (Gorkys), losing no performance and getting more prospects to boot.

In summary, let's not start jumping off of the Clemente Bridge just yet.  There's nothing wrong with this deal that a couple of 3 hit, 3 RBI games from Cutch won't fix.

I understand the suspicion of the FO's motives here. Kick a dog enough times and he'll cringe whenever you approach.  But if you look between the lines (the foul lines) we're no worse off, and perhaps improved.  The extra depth is a bonus.  Take a deep breath and enjoy the McCutcheon era, starting to-day at a ballpark near you.

I repeat....You don't have to dump an OF (in this case...McLouth) to make room for McCutcheon. You are falling hook, line & sinker for the idiotic excuses that the front office wants you to buy.

When the Steelers drafted Lawrence Timmons...Did they dump Farrior or Foote right away?

Different sport, but not a different situation.

You create a good team keeping what is good....and adding to it.

Don't fall for their garbage reasons!

Nate we will miss you. THANK YOU for everything that you have done for this team.

MORE "propsects" to watch.

Frankly, I would rather watch more major leaguers play at PNC Park.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  PROSPECT WATCH  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Today’s Topic: CORNER INFIELDERS (stats thru 6/3/09)

Steve Pearce – 1B – Indy   (8th Round, 2005 Draft)

6 HR 29 RBI  .272  ** 49 Games 173ABs, 23R, 47 H, 30K, 28BB, 3 SB ** 4 errors

Neil Walker – 3B – Indy   (1st Round, 2004 Draft)

7 HR 32 RBI  .239  ** 51 Games 184ABs,  20R, 44 H, 32K, 18BB, 4 SB ** 8 errors

Jamie Romak – 1B – Altoona   (part of A.Laroche for Gonzo/Lillibridge trade)

3 HR 17 RBI  .168  ** 47 Games 161ABs,  7 R, 27 H, 52K, 11 BB, 1 SB  ** 7 errors

Pedro Alvarez – 3B – Lynchburg   (1st Round, 2008 Draft)

9 HR  41RBI  .240  ** 50Games 183ABs, 26R, 44 H, 54K, 31 BB, 1 SB ** 11 errors

Matt Hague – 1B – Lynchburg   (9th Round, 2008 Draft)

3 HR  23RBI  .287  ** 49 Games 181ABs,  25R, 52 H, 28K, 18 BB, 1 SB ** 4 errors

Calvin Anderson – 1B – West Virginia (12th Round, 2008 Draft)

7 HR  33 RBI .298  ** 45 Games 168 ABs, 21R, 50 H, 50K.  9 BB, 1 SB ** 6 errors

Jeremy Farrell – 3B – West Virginia   (8th Round, 2008 Draft)

3 HR  20RBI  .290  ** 28 Games 100 ABs,  15R, 29 H, 28K, 13 BB, 1 SB ** 10 errors

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Good Morning, Joey Bats! For a change, I'm up when you are ... just had to get up so I could read DK's story on Nate (should see Curious George stirring around here, too!).

Roxtar - Liked your post ... I'm backing off the Clemente Bridge as a result! I only wish I didn't have to work dayshift so I could see McCutch's first game.

I'm not sure, roxtar.

Nate was an All-Star, the Pirates best all-round player, according to the players.. McCutcheon has talent, no doubt, but has never played in the bigs. That's a subtraction.

I see your point that someone was expendable, and I see your point that the team needs depth, but..

I agree with Pl Stingray - the Pirates are giving up on the season.

You just don't trade your best all-round, 26 year-old All-Star player for another team's #4, #7 and unranked minor-leaguers, and say your still trying to win this season.

Nate is the present.

As another blogger mentioned, this will create - and has created - turmoil; in the clubhouse, and at the negotiating table.

I don't know, I have to repeat my mantra: "They know what they're doing, they know what they're doing..."

LIke most, I liked Nate.  He's a gamer.  But, this was a necessary trade.  I'm assuming the money saved will pay for Sano next month and that's why we didn't wait until the deadline.  Unlike most, I don't mind this move.  Cutch could be awesome...and soon.  How much did we really lose?  Also, for those that are worried about having too many outfielders in the minors, etc, there's no guarantee they'll stay Pirates forever.  Maybe someday, we'll be able to deal prospects for MLB talent.  You can't do that until you have a stable of them.  

NH and FC are smart guys, I think.  These moves are going to pay off someday (soon) and we'll hopefully be stocked in the minors, at that point, and stay good for a sustained time period.

Nate is not a superstar; he's a good player, not great...maybe a 3rd outfileder on most teams.  Likable guy?  Yes.  But this was a good move.

daquido:

I think you're comparing apples with bicycle seats. Football has unlimited substitutions.  You can bring in an extra LB, take one out for the dime package, etc.  Timmons could get his feet wet a little at a time and work his way into the regular lineup.  In baseball, you're either a starter or a utility guy, and there are only 3 starting outfielders.  We already have utility guys....Monroe, Hinske, Young.  If McCutcheon is to start, do you move Moss to a utility spot and dump one of those three?  If so you're "trading"  McCutcheon for HInske, and ripping yourself off in the process.  Furthermore, you're under-utilizing whoever ends up in RF (Morgan, McLouth or McCutcheon).  They're all CF types at PNC.

I predict that someday, the Pirates will pull off a deal for Morgan, sending him to play in Fenway's huge RF.  I expect to get Manny DelCarmen or Daniel Bard in return.  Remember, you heard it here first.

I agree, daquido_bazzini.

You don't have to trade an outfielder to get an outfielder.

Dumb question: Why couldn't McCutcheon play center, and Nate play right?

The only thing I can think of is that they are absolutely desperate for minor-league depth.

But Nate was the present, man.

He wasn't the past. Isn't he the type of guy you want to build around?

If not guys like him, then who?

It has to be that they're desperate for minor-league talent.

"Oommm...they know what they're  doing, they know what they're doing...krishna krishna...hare hare...oommm..."

A good move?!?!

I guess I've lost my mind.

This franchise was at a crossroads last season, and they took the cheap way out.

They could have kept Nady, Bay (and now McLouth)....and added to it.

Instead....They've got nothing but pseudo prospects.

It's incredible to me that anyone would even remotely think these were good moves.

You get what you pay for....And Nutting pays zip....That equals last place every year.

17 years....and counting firmly!

Hey, we've got the makings of a Morning Zoo here!

The potential fourth player in return for Nate won't be determined until July. With Nate gone, resources are definitely available to sign Sano. If this seals the deal for NH and FC to offer him the $$$ he wants, this trade should sit a lot better with most Bucco fans.

Best of luck to you, Nate!

we once had a player named nate

so many liked to call him the great

its time to say

we will be OK

never guessing this was hisfate

I would rather have gotten more back for Nate.... But it has become clear these past few years that most organizations will not trade their top prospects -- that is, those prospects that stand a good chance of becoming superstars. So, a return of this sort may be the best team fans could have reasonably hoped to get for a player of Nate's skills.

That said, this is the kind of trade that the Pirates will need to make if the organization wants to accomplish more than to meet the McClatchy Line (81 wins). It was a trade that took guts to make, and courage is something Pirates fans have not often seen from the organization's front office.

I will never spend another dime on the Pirates again.

Not only for trading McLouth, but FAILING to get any of their top three prospects in return????

The best management team in baseball? Hardly. More like McClatchy - Littlefield II.

Bye bye Bucs. I hardly knew ye. And I don't want to anymore.

I like Nate,  I think he seems to be a nice young man.  Think about Nates numbers since last year, he hit well then not very well and then well again.  He is not hitting the ball like hs has.

I am on the side that think he will be good but not an every year all star.

I am tired of not seeing enough wins, but face it, Nate has not been a barn burner this year and forgive me for saying that he may have had his nady year last year.

From the moment the season ended so many of you all day long in tears asking for trades get upset when the plug is pulled.

Rememeber like I said last night and someone else said this morning  sorry to you for not remembering as I type that clutch should at least equal the production of nate as nate has been producing.

All this talk about clutch and all the hammering by so many to see  him, oh he is ready why is he not up here, now we will see what he has and by all accounts we should see more from clutch than we have seen from nate this year.

We have been in a hole so long we may have permanment shade, lets face it, why would we not want to upgrade at every position?  His hitting downcurve may be his career.

Clemente, Pops, and Maz, you do not trade, none of them are playing and we have no clones.

I like the returns of both trades last summer.  I think Andy already has shown he is a better third base man than Jason is an outfielder and Andy has been dandy at the plate once he got primed to pump.  Ohlie has been in free.  we are seeing signs that the magic ride is about to take off.  Now Moss is howing he can be Boss.

Thats just at the major league level, the stat geeks say the best of the deals are yet to come, BINGO.

Blinders keep some from seeing those trades as potentially to be labeled BIG TIME,  man I got a touch of DARLYITIS this morning.

Since I do not really follow minor leaguers too much I will continue my evalutations on the field, the big league field. Neil has shown me that he is a better horse trader than the previous guy, I give him a chance to bring these guys along.

Since we have seen so many below average guys here since the days of Roberto, we get a bit clammy with just highly average guys.

I want to see a Bucco team where Pedro and Tabata are average for the team.

This is like growing a tomato plant, to see it flourish you have to cut out the suckers.  I see this regime  having the way to see through the woods when no one is there to see the tree fall, I may add this is a philiosophical debate not scientific.

our limbs grow a bit we trim them and get lots of new growth.

Delayed gratification.

Roxter

Thank you for posting your assessment. Personally, I believe McLouth's power will always be more than Moss's, as will his performance so if you want to put the best team out there, why not trade Moss? Or Adam LaRoche and move Moss to first?

My bigger gripe is what we gt back, i.e. Nyjer Morgan, Craig Hansen and Karstens. We did not get Heyward, who is who we really needed, or Tommy Hanson. If Atlanta called me about McLouth i would tell them: "either Haeyward or Hansons, or call me when you get sick of watching the Phillies run away"

Trading McLouth was the wrong person, at the wrong time, with the wrong players back. I know doubt you will see Grabow or Wilson get anything of value back, and I reallyh Doubt you will see Doumit in a Pirate uniform in August of 2010/

Morning Links Part 2

Pirates notebook: Yates throws off mound

www.tribune-democrat.com/.../local_story_155001818.html

Braves dump future Hall of Famer, acquire All-Star

www.google.com/.../ALeqM5i4uhXBN1vuHjyP4r4MfLbW-e2eLgD98JO52G0

After struggles in 8th inning continue, Mets drop J.J.  7th inning

www.nydailynews.com/.../2009-06-04_after_struggles_in_8th_inning_continue_mets_drop_jj_putz_7th_inning.html

Doc,

Doumit in a Pirate uniform in August 2010? Once he's back and proved he's healthy, he will be gone by the end of July.

We now know that all that talk over the winter about players to build around  when they signed Doumit/McLouth/Maholm was a big smoke screen. All 3 will be traded this summer and there will never be a player to build around.

It's now apparent that the longest you will see anyone in a Pirate uniform ever again is 4 - 4.5 years, and then they will be gone for prospects. Count on it.

Sanchez will be next on this suummer's trade parade.

I'm sorry, I have a problem with the line of thinking that Nate was a guy to build around.  Evan Longoria is a guy you build around.  Albert Pujols is a guy you build around.   Nate McLouth is not in that category.  If he played for the Dodgers, he would bat 7th or 8th.

It's about time that some type of long term plan is enacted ... we have been promised this for 15 years.  I can only hope that Jack Wilson follows for a couple of prospects;  this is the only way this franchise can ever become competitive.

THE OFFICIALLY UNOFFICIAL PBC BLOGS AND MLB LINKS:

Abbreviated edition since several are posted above

Bleacher Report--Goodbye, Nate the Great

Bleacher Report--Pittsburgh Fans Swindled Again by Pirates

bleacherreport.com/.../192090-pittsburgh-fans-swindled-again-by-pirates

Bleacher Report--Pirates Waiving The White Flag In June?

bleacherreport.com/.../192070-pirates-waiving-the-white-flag-in-june

Pittsburgh Lumber Company--Thoughts on the McLouth trade

mvn.com/.../thoughts-on-the-mclouth-trade.html

Sandlot Swashbucklers--McCutchen to Pittsburgh, McLouth to Atlanta!

mvn.com/.../mccutchen-to-pittsburgh-mclouth-to-atlanta.html

Sandlot Swashbucklers--Indians Rained Out; Walker Dislocates a Finger

mvn.com/.../indians-rained-out-walker-dislocates-a-finger.html

Bucs Dugout--More Thoughts on the Nate McLouth Trade

www.bucsdugout.com/.../more-thoughts-on-the-nate-mclouth

Why Gavs--What is Nate McLouth worth?

whygavs.com/.../what-is-nate-mclouth-worth.html

Hyzdu Headquarters--Tear Down This Wall

hyzduhq.blogspot.com/.../tear-down-this-wall.html

The Burgh Blues--Welcome to McCutchenburgh

theburghblues.mlblogs.com/.../welcome_to_mccutchenburgh.html

The Green Weenie--Bolt From the Blue

oldbucs.blogspot.com/.../bolt-from-blue.html

Pirate Home Page--Future is now as Bucs call McCutchen

pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

Rumbunter--My Dream Came True: McLouth Gone

rumbunter.com/.../my-dream-came-true-mclouth-gone

MLB Transactions

www.cbssports.com/.../transactions

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I surely left something out but hopefully covered the basics

TheDudeFromWM wrote re: Morning links: Instant trade reaction

on Thu, Jun 4 2009 11:58 AM

I'm sorry, I have a problem with the line of thinking that Nate was a guy to build around.  Evan Longoria is a guy you build around.  Albert Pujols is a guy you build around.   Nate McLouth is not in that category.  If he played for the Dodgers, he would bat 7th or 8th.

collegesportsfan wrote re: Morning links: Instant trade reaction

on Thu, Jun 4 2009 12:03 PM

It's about time that some type of long term plan is enacted ... we have been promised this for 15 years.  I can only hope that Jack Wilson follows for a couple of prospects;  this is the only way this franchise can ever become competitive.

Guys,  exactly, we all like nate but he is one of the guys you et when you got the guy to build around.

I can only hope that the pressure to get rid of Freddie because of his contract is now gone.  I can only hope.

The thing I keep reminding myself is that the Pirates' record and stats will probably be the same this year with McCutchen in the lineup as it would be with Nate in the lineup.  The part that is not so clear is the future.

Doc:

Thanks for your response.  As I understand it, the Braves approached the Bucs about Nate.  I haven't read that Pittsburgh was actively shopping anyone, certainly not an outfielder.  Realistically, Nate was the only OF that had any chance of bringing any return at all.  Nobody's breaking down the doors for Moss, Adam's value will be greater at the deadline, and even if there was interest in Jack and/or Freddy, we have absolutely nobody who is in a position to step up and replace either of them.  Young looks like a deer in the headlights at 2B and let's not even mention Bixler.

So the only desirable commodity who could be replaced was Nate.  As for the long term payoff from the deal, I think it's too early to say.  But my main point, in the short term, is that Cutch can do everything Nate could do, and I don't think we lose anything day-to-day on the deal.

Later in the season, after Doumit is 100%, we'll have a major league ready catcher to put on the block, whether it turns out to be Diaz or Jaramillo.  Catchers with major league experience should bring above average returns. (I won't mention keeping both and moving Ryan to 1B because I might want some soup later.)  If we trade Adam,  Moss and Hinske can cover either RF or 1B.  Grabow might get us a big leaguer.  I'd try to get Pearce up to the big club for the next round of interleague games so he could DH on the road, just to get a look at him against quality pitching.

I'm not giving up on this season yet, and certainly not because Cutch is replacing Nate in CF.

Riddle me this:  Suppose Nate had gone down with a season ending injury,  Wouldn't you be relieved to know that Cutch was available to replace him?  I sure would, and the current situation is analogous to that.

Several comments here have echoed what I thought after I got over the shock.  Though I like Nate McLouth and admire the persistence it took for him to develop into a starting major leaguer, in the grand scheme of things, he is a low ceiling talent.  It is doubtful, at least to me, that he will ever put together a better season than the one he had last year (which included a very suspect second half) and, as such, his trade value will never be greater than it is now.  Truly special players don't have breakout years at age 26 (and his "breakout" had some holes).  Although he was arguably the Pirates best position player (and I think we all know what a dubious distinction that is right now), he is the likely the third and possibly fourth best outfielder on a championship team.

On the other hand, he was blocking a player who has the very real potential to be a special player in Andrew McCutcheon.  Is this move a calculated risk?  Sure, but aren't all baseball moves?  Obviously, I love the Pirates or I wouldn't be posting here, so I'm sorry to see a move that may reduce their chances this year.  But, realistically, with the organization as bereft of talent as it was when NH and FC took over the reins, if this team contends by 2011, they will have done a remarkable job.

DK wrote:. Remember, the Jason Bay trade was widely praised, while the Xavier Nady trade was almost unanimously panned. Both of those reactions

Lets go back to when we got Jason, Andy alone is playing as well as Jason did at first.  Andy already shows he is better in the field than Jason and the only offensive thing Jason has shown is more power and that could still come from Andy.

The same people were complaing we gave up Giles, who has recently brought that up?

Lets not bury these guys before they get here, remember someone is going to tell them we are a must read!

Busy day ahead, so I will simply leave it at this......

I think pulling the plug yet again on this season and perhaps the next several was a very SLEAZY thing to do to Pirate fans.

These crooks are solely focused on profit and secondarily are hoping to catch lightning in a bottle 4 or 5 years from now. Until then, same old, same old. Last place.

These despicable people disgust me.

But remember Pirate fans, baseball, along with the Pirate organization is an institution. Selfish empty suits such as Bob Nutting, Frank Coonelly, and Neal Huntington are merely temporary placeholders. In time, they will move on and hopefully the Pirate organization will be owned and managed by men of honesty and integrity.

I long for that day.

Everyone knew this was going to be a losing  year, just by the lack of off-season activity.  There were just too many holes to fill via free agency.  Yes, the bucs started well and have been play a bit better than expected, but there was still no reason to see a contender.  

Someone had to go to make room for McCutchen.  Definitiely not Moss, as this FO trade for him last year and sees him as someone who will mature and be a valuble player as well as valuable trade bait.  Morgan is still cheap and is proving he is an everyday player who also can be trade bait once the Pirates have their true future outfield in place.

What the trade should tell everyone is how bad the minors really are.  Open the door to the future power hitters' room, the future starters' room and the future middle infileders' room, shout and you will get mostly echos.  Expect anyone on this team above 26 years old to be traded for prospects.  Yes, it bites in the short term and I am as disappointed as I can be. But it is reality.

For me, the Morriss deal almost ended my lifelong relationship with the Pirates. If Littlefield hadn't been fired and Morriss not been released, it probably would have.  Since FC and NH have been in charge, I have learned not to get too attached to any player as I know that they are all trade bait in an effort to rebuild a franchise that barely had enough talent to field a AAand a 1/2 team in the majors.  I am still not convinced that NH is the right guy to lead this effort. but Moss and LaRoche seem to indicate that he is a better talent judge that Littlfield could ever dream of being.  

The problem I have here is patience.  I know this is a different mangement team, etc. but it's still been16 years for me.  I'm just not sure I can sustain my interest for another three years, without some positve reinforcement at the Major League level.

JAL,

Are you still looking at 2010 as the year the club must start winning?

Devastating.  Welcome to the Major Leagues Nate McLouth.  I don't get this trade at all, but it sounds like we have a chance to be decent in 2013.

So...

What's everyone's projections for Nate's performance starting Monday when the Buccos travel to Turner Field for a 4 game set?  

Do you think this had anything to do with Nate being a Red Wings fan?

Mybe NH figured that with West Virginia being 20-33 it was necessary to sacrifice the big club to bring in some A-ball reinforcements.

I and several of my friends and family have been longtime season ticket holders.  Yes, even this year we bought them.  Ever with the hope that the Pirates will turn it around.  After this latest move, management and ownership (gotta love those Nuttings, as if it isn't bad enough they are ruining Seven Springs), have slapped us loyal fans in the face once to often.  I just got done discussing the trade with several of my friends and we have decided to forego the agony of another losing season and stop spending money in support of this lunacy (even if it means wasting money on unused tickets the rest of the year).  Furthermore, we have agreed that none of the 8 of us (and I am hoping and pretty sure the remaining 10) will be renewing our season tickets next season.  We love the ballpark, but can go watch the Altoona Curve for a whole lot less money.  So farewell to the memories this once great franchise brought the city and here's to the day the current ownership sells the team and we can once again rejoice in a warm summer afternoon of competitive baseball.  Join me is singing "We are Family."

Maybe NH's strategy is to have as many borderline prospects as you can because competition is good.

I would go about it a different way - LIKE PUTTING 8 BONA FIDE MAJOR LEAUGERS ON THE FIELD EACH NIGHT.  

I posted earlier that as of right now, the major league team might be the same with McCutch as it would be with Nate.

But I can't help wondering if we got enough value in return for Nate.

3 for 1 is good.  But are they the right 3?

I'd like to hear more opinions from DK's secret sources--the scouts.

I don't give too much value to the opinions of the guys on Baseball Tonight.  

The sky has not fallen. This is what we have to expect with this team. But I don't buy it as purley a salary dump. I was as shocked as anyone by the trade and will miss McLouth. My shock had more to do with the timing than the fact of the trade. The PBC cleraly thought NAte was our only readily marketable outfielder and is hoping to catch lighting in a bottle with one of the two pitchers. I expect the guys to go in July also wil go for minot league pitchers. In reality, of course,  Nate was a big fish in a very small pond (more like a puddle) who likely would be a third outfielder or even a platoon player on many teams. If we can get a good package of prospects, fine. No one on this team deserves to be an untouchable. I just hope the minor leaguers we get in about seven weeks for Adam Laroche and Grabow are worthwhile.

This is a salary dump.

With the attendance problems, I think the Pirates are in deep financial trouble. No matter what FC says.

I wonder how much money the Pirates received?

Good morning inmates near and far.  Glad to see the pitching matchup for today has changed. Disapointed they didn't schedule a double header.  If you go to DK's link to the Atlanta paper,the trade is a weak second place to the treatment of Glavine.  And the Glavine store is the lead on sirius/xm Baseball this morning.  I agree with other posters, biggest concern is the affect "in the room".  And the effect on future negotiations with agents/players on contracts.  Yes, I expect more moves by the deadline, this one at this time, in this way was not expected.  My concern with a player like Morton is too many years in the Minors, never good enough to stick in MLB.  Nobody wants to be a minor league star, it's the show that counts. And once again, nice to read so many new contributers  today.

Three things that struck me:

1.  Nate is signed for three more years, so this implies to me that mgmt doesn't feel like this team will during that window...nice.

2.  Why do this trade now if you are not getting one of their "off the table", elite prospects??  Nate is not a rental player so you would think these 3 prospects could be had in July.  shop around.

3.  Go Pens and Steelers camp opens next month.

I'm a Pirate.

Get me out of here!

Please, send me those tickets

freylaw24 wrote re: Morning links: Instant trade reaction

on Thu, Jun 4 2009 12:32 PM

I and several of my friends and family have been longtime season ticket holders.  Yes, even this year we bought them.  Ever with the hope that the Pirates will turn it around.  After this latest move, management and ownership (gotta love those Nuttings, as if it isn't bad enough they are ruining Seven Springs), have slapped us loyal fans in the face once to often.  I just got done discussing the trade with several of my friends and we have decided to forego the agony of another losing season and stop spending money in support of this lunacy (even if it means wasting money on unused tickets the rest of the year).  Furthermore, we have agreed that none of the 8 of us (and I am hoping and pretty sure the remaining 10) will be renewing our season tickets next season.  We love the ballpark, but can go watch the Altoona Curve for a whole lot less money.  So farewell to the memories this once great franchise brought the city and here's to the day the current ownership sells the team and we can once again rejoice in a warm summer afternoon of competitive baseball.  Join me is singing "We are Family."

When "this trade will make us better for years to come" stretches into SIXTEEN years of losing, it is really hard to take any management or ownership seriously.

How our ownership is not rated worst in MLB, heck even professional sports is beyond my comprehension...

If I am not mistaken, we are dead last in attendance this season.  Despite what the "announced" attendence is, ever notice how that number sometimes is double the number of people in the stands?

Fans have already spoken; and things are going to get worse before they get better.

Sorry guys. I'm not buying it.

No, McLouth isn't Pujols. Never will be. But the Pirates will never KEEP a Pujols anyway. They will never have a guy on the team they will pay $15 million a season. It just won't happen.

I thought the whole POINT to signing McLouth, Doumit, Maholm, & Sanchez to long term deals was to have them all here and then ADD the McCutcheon's, the Alvarez's, the Lincoln's, & the Friday's TO them to create a team that could contend for several years.

This trade proves that's NOT the point at all. The point to signing anyone to a long term deal is to enhance their trade value, pure & simple.

Does anyone on this board really think that if Alvarez turns into the next Evan Longoria, that the Pirates will build around him? Consider who his agent is. He WILL get to free agency without a long term deal, and the Pirates would never commit $180 million over 10 years to 1 player.

However, if you can keep McLouth, Doumit & Sanchez on the team for around $35 - $40 million and then add an Alvarez that reaches his full potential, you could have quite the line up for 4 years.

But it's quite obvious we'll never get to that. The adequate play of Jaramillo & Diaz behind the plate has made Doumit extremely expendable in a trade, as has the hitting of Delwyn Young, and their force feeding of 2nd base to him made Sanchez available.

It's going to be a never ending cycle. The Pirates will never have a team salary over $50 million, and they will never be winners again unless they catch lightning in a bottle (See the 2008 Tampa Bay Rays - and how are they doing this year?).

JAL       Have read post after post since ST about Bring Cutch up, Cutch is ready, when will they bring Cutch up--ok, now they bring him up and no "great, they brought Cutch up" posts.

About 5:30 i posted this

The other move we have not made and is starting to puzzle me is McCutchen, he is ready to come up and help this club now. I understand we dont want to trade NYJMO or give up on Brandon but i have a news flash, Andrew is better than both of the right now. He is as fast or faster than NYJMO plays a more consistent outfield and he's a better hitter. As it relates to Brandon, speed not even close and i believe he's not only a better hitter but he has more power=Andrew 4 hr  Brandon 1hr. NH needs to continue to make this club better this year, Andrew would make us better now!

JAL, I made that post before the trade was announced

i also posted

I am most worried about JAL, He may be in shock with all theGRAY MEN here  do us all a favor and get an AVATAR it's easy to do just click on your name and follow the instructions.

JAL, I will miss Nate i really will

But i am thrilled 2 have McCutchen here

Did we get enough for Nate?  Probably depends on Morton, if he can come up and replace Snell i say yes but if he doesnt??? we got our pockets picked again.

OBTW, No one was getting Hanson from them, unless you offer a Peavey in return.

I get what the Pirates claim to be doing, I really do.  But I don't understand how Nate McLouth fits the bill of a player thats need moved for prospects.  At what point do players like Nate become untouchable?  When we are 20 games over .500?  No, he wasn't a 'star', but he was more of a star than most of our players.  If I had heard the shipped Adam Laroche or Jack or even Freddy, I wouldn't have been surprised at all.  Shipping Nate just seems weird.  

At least the fanbase can't claim this is for financial reasons.  The only other reason could be outright stupidity.  Which is much worse.

Well good morning all. If you can call it a good morning.

Shock, Outrage, Disappointment, Sadness.

I spoke to many of my fellow Inmates last night via phone due to an inability to get online last night and had to wait until arriving at work this AM to share my thoughts with the rest of the Inmates.

There was not enough BP meds on Nurse Cratchetts cart for me last night. Oh and by the way if anyone sees the tailor please send him around. I chewed through the buckles on my straight jacket.

That being said, I am outraged at the explanation of this move by Neal. This is nothing more than a SALARY DUMP of arguably one of the better CFr's in MLB for 3 unproven prospects. We are not positioned for anything but more of the same losing for at least another 2 to 3 years if not more.

I have lost almost all of my faith and confidence in this ownership and management. We the fans deserve better/the best product that the PBC can put together. WE built them the best ballpark in ALL of MLB to watch what? A farm team for the MLB. A CASH COW for the Ownership, and cheap excuses by a management that would rather continue on with the tradition of losing than a culture of winning.

I ask the PBC management to look across the river and up the hill from their offices this evening and learn from Mario Lemieux and his team of owners and management...(8,000 people sat OUTSIDE Mellon Arena Tuesday night and will probably swell to 10K tonight) Or better yet just walk across OUR parking lot and ask to speak to the Rooney's on what it takes to run a successful sports franchise. When will you learn.

Just acomparison for comparisons sake (IMHO)...Trading Nate would have been like the 59 PBC trading away Mr. Clemente at that point in his career (I am in no way comparing the actual players but the foundation or building block pieces they were.) .

It will be a very very long time before I will spend another dollar for the ownership to put into their bank account, or my shadow cross the entrance of that magnificent ballpark. What a shame.

And you know who I may feel most sorry for? Andrew McCutcheon. This poor kid has to arrive here today and assume the No.1 star without so much as a rehersal. If he does not immediately succeed, he will be billed as a failure. I honestly said a prayer for him last night. "We are brining him along slowly" is what we heard. What happens IF this kid struggles terribly and shakes his confidence to the core? 1st WHO do we have to replace him should he need to be sent back to Indy? Who does he have as a Veteran Mentor? Who is going to teach him the nuances of CF at PBC? How nice would it have been to have Nate, take a day off today and bring Andrew up and let him start on a "get away day game" knowing that he is up here for a cup or two of coffee. Ease him into that staring/starting role. Sorry for the rant everyone but this has been bottled up all night in what was a poor nights sleep over my beloved PBC...

NURSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I need more meds.

Better yet...Good by cruel PBC...The Clemente Bridge is in sight

AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! SPLASH! gurgle gurgle gurlge.

I have mixed feelings on this trade, and I guess time will tell. However, if this season is to be saved, some of our players' heads need to be screwed on right again. Like last season, this could easily send the team into a tailspin. Too bad, NH and staff are in Florida, since management need to have a long face-to-face meeting with the players to re-assure players of why they did what they did, and their objectives in the short and long-term. This needs to be spelled out to the players. I'm a big believer in self-motivation, however if one feels they're on a sinking ship, the human reaction is to not give 100%. To lose the fans is one thing (they'll come back when things go right), however when you lose a player (motivation), it's hard to get them back.

I've just read the story in the PG and a couple other ones.  It sounds like they feel Morton will be up here very soon.  It sounds to me that he could very well take Snell's spot.   So if Snell had pitched better would the Bucs have made this trade?  Or, would they have made it at this time?   It is Snell's fault!! :)

I wonder if this also means that they think Nyjer is the more of the real deal than some of us think.

I don't think this was a salary dump, but the economy does stink and attendance and sponsorship is down.

Some have posted that they saw a lot of Nate jerseys at the Pirate game on Saturday night.  I went to that game and I saw a lot of Penguin jerseys at PNC Park.

Macs

Good for you to stand up and post about the thrill of having Cutch here.  

As for the gray men--not so much shock as disappointment.  Impossible to tell who is who or go back and find posts.  Don't understand why someone would want to say something and just have blend in with so many other posts.

All they need do is click on my name or BK's for instructions on adding an avatar.

Hostage

No, have to adjust predictions as things change--going with 2012 now.

Billy Kid.  Remember how the Penguins got so good....they STUNK for several years and piled up high draft choices that became excellent players.  In baseball, like hockey, it is imperative that you have depth in your system to win.This move was geared to that end.  The question to ask is this:  Did you see the Pirates REALISTICALLY contending in the next 2-3 years.  If the answer is no then trading McClouth made total sense. Unlike past management moves he was traded at peak value for  good return.  I loved Nate as much as anyone but I think we have way overrated him here in PGH.  I have no issue with this trade at all.  

Demery,

What self respecting Pirate would not want a trade out of Nuttingville?

If I am Maholm, Doumit, Sanchez, Adam LaRoche, Duke, and Grabow, I'm telling my agent to request a trade ASAP.

There is no reason whatsoever any of those guys should have to waste another second of their career in a no-win situation.

A major league career can be a short period of time and no player should have to waste it playing for an organization that refuses to give it's players an opportunity to be competitive and play meaningful baseball.

And how about the players now talking about thinking twice about being willing to sign extensions with this club given this McLouth precedent?

The sad thing is, these new bozos have been in place a year and a half now, and two full off seasons and this thing hasn't bottomed out yet. - Where things stand today, I see this thing bottoming out in 2010 or 2011.

Just pathetic.

And they have the audacity to claim they are focused on building a championship caliber club.

I agree with Thundercrack  I do not not why they made this trade but I do not see it as a salary dump.  Nate's contract was cheap by MLB standards.  That was the beauty of the contract he signed--locked up for 4 years for a very reasonable price.  

JAL,

2012. - So then basically we are now looking at 19 consecutive seasons of losing baseball in Pittsburgh?

Is that really a reasonable return for this region after supplying the publically funded ballpark that the PBC and MLB extorted from this region?

I think not. - It's about time our local government and civic leaders get involved and perhaps consider litigation to end the Nutting era. - This is just flat out wrong.

there is a young lad named Billy

who has his hair in a swrilly

no salary dump

NH is not Gump

lets not get ourselves too silly

this is on the spot

SeanE wrote re: Morning links: Instant trade reaction

on Thu, Jun 4 2009 1:16 PM

Billy Kid.  Remember how the Penguins got so good....they STUNK for several years and piled up high draft choices that became excellent players.  In baseball, like hockey, it is imperative that you have depth in your system to win.This move was geared to that end.  The question to ask is this:  Did you see the Pirates REALISTICALLY contending in the next 2-3 years.  If the answer is no then trading McClouth made total sense. Unlike past management moves he was traded at peak value for  good return.  I loved Nate as much as anyone but I think we have way overrated him here in PGH.  I have no issue with this trade at all.

So, for the betterment of the team, we have jettisoned Nate and kept Nyjer? There is no way in the world to justify this move, NONE.

Sorry all, the Dark Side has won me over. NuttingHostage is right and I've apparently been wrong for standing up for the new FO. I may lurk for a while, but I've lost all interest in baseball for the moment. Nyjer is better than Nate? Harrrumph

let's go pens, yay.

I can't wait for Steeler training camp to begin

Teddykinz,

I bet that hurt to say that.

Hang in there bud.

;-)

They may not be saying that Njjer is better than Nate.

They might be saying that they can get more in return for Nate.

                IT'S A CULTURE OF PROFITABILITY!

            NEAL HUNTINGTON HAS HIS JUKE!

I agree with Thundercrack  I do not not why they made this trade but I do not see it as a salary dump.  Nate's contract was cheap by MLB standards.  That was the beauty of the contract he signed--locked up for 4 years for a very reasonable price.  

JAL, considering past deals, i.e Ramirez for Bobby Hill and others i can see how Nu Ho and his pitch fork carrying MOB  {JK } can look upon this as a dump but i just dont see it. I have watched Morton pitch briefly and the kid can  be real good,some in atlanta think he's as good as Jurjens.

Hernandez? another leadoff hitter???? your guess is as good as mine, and Locke?

We shall see

Morning mates, what a lousy day,

I will try to catch up on comments, but I can't believe that this is all they got??  Maybe not as bad as the Ramirez fiasco, but WHAT WERE THEY THINKING???  Not one of their top prospects for Nate?

IMO the other GMs will be lining up hat in hand frothing at the mouth to make a deal with NH..

Well, my friends, I,too, am disappointed, less hopeful and truly bummed out by this trade.  But, a lot of people here have been begging for Cutch and now they've got him.  I hope Nate continues to have a good career and Cutch can handle the bigs with only a little difficulty.  He looked very good in spring training and has progressed nicely at Indy.  I, for one, think he will adjust quickly and garner lots of fan support.  But, it is what it is and the FO will do more of this before the end of the year if they have the opportunities.  I will still go to the games I planned and some I didn't and enjoy baseball with whoever is out there in the greatest ball park around.  We have no control over it even if we stay away, so if you love baseball like I do, you go with the flow.

Dudes, wake up and smell the coffee. The PBC has absolutely no intention of ever retaining talent. - It's not as profitable a proposition for Bob Nutting to do that. A roster full of players making $400K is much more to his liking.

The Bay and McLouth trades are all the proof anyone needs.

As long as Bob owns the club, there will be no point in time that the PBC puts a stake in the ground and attempts to build something.

In 4 or 5 years, McCutchen will be flipped too. Doumit? He will be flipped in a a few years. Maholm? Him too. Gorky? Pedro? They will all be flipped for low cost prospects the minute they are set up to earn a few million a year. - I like to call it the Nutting Two Step.

Good morning, all.  Much unhappiness here, I see.  I'm a little unhappy myself.  

One counter point is all I offer to what I've been reading:  it is not realistic to criticize this move as a salary dump.  Yes, salary level has been reduced.  Of course it has.  And it happens each and every time an established major leaguer is traded for prospects.  That wasn't what was going on here, IMO.  It was trading for prospects.  Period.

That said, I remain sorry to see Nate go.  Enjoyed watching him play.  Had confidence with him at the plate.  I will miss him.

I remain a Pirate fan.  To me that means that my hometown has a baseball team and I will support it.  In fact, I am going to the game today and will be at least one person there to welcome Andrew McCutchen, who was not at fault for this move.  He has been waiting a long time.  

there once was a young lad named neil

already some wondering about the deal

to carry some jive and juke

you must drop a nuke

just thinking another could go down as a steal

@SeanE--<Pens>

17 years.....Not a few. Draft Picks, amongst the worst in all of MLB. How many years of rebuilding, stocking talent (that we seem to trade as soon as the get a whif of success). Sorry not buying that this morning and in an EM to both Frank and Neal this morning I told them so.

Hostage

No, tis not a reasonable return.  A reasonable return would be steady advancement--say 5 below .500 this season, 1 or 2 above .500 in 2010, and so on

CAPN, I will come and sit with you abd I will even bring JHADER to sit with us.

@Jersey Joe--<<this is on the spot>>

JJ you should be ashamed of yourself! I am calling you, my good friend out, you yourself were vocally in agreement with many of us late last year and through spring training that thought we were 2-3 years away with the current (Nate, Paul, Zach, Ryan, etc...) and developing talent.

I'm still in shock.  But here are some of my thoughts... not that it matters.

I'm thinking that Snell has to be feeling an almost Kafka-esque level of paranoia right about now.  His replacement is haunting his dreams.

Cutch has a lot of pressure on him out of the shoot.  I wish him well.

Moral in the clubhouse has to be in the crapper.  I hope the boys can get past it and play hard.  They're still the Bucs and they're still my team.

The message to players going forward is not to take lower pay arbitration in order to stay with the club longterm because it doesn't matter... you'll only be stuck with your lower pay contract on another team.  That part bothers me the most.  

I pray that the three players that we got for Nate show SOMETHING and show it soon.

Lastly, I'm embarrassed to say it but I'm just plain sad today.

As much as I criticize old JR, I have to feel sorry for him today, he had and maby still could finish above 500 this year.

McCutchen is a stud and it might take him a little while to get going,  but to have players that JR relys on and needs,  taken away as swiftly as this has to make him angry.

The future is still bright.

I saw the Steelers give hall of fame players away for nothing and guys like Kiner, Tony Pena traded away and lived though it, I will live through this.

ITS GROUNDHOG DAY

Capn

I remain a Pirate fan.  To me that means that my hometown has a baseball team and I will support it.  In fact, I am going to the game today and will be at least one person there to welcome Andrew McCutchen, who was not at fault for this move.  He has been waiting a long time.  

Ditto

Why this trade does not raise the level of a salary dump

1)  As stated earlier--Nate's contract not that expensive

2) In a salary dump you are activily trying to trade players to dump tyheir salary and will take peanut for them just to get rid of the salary.  As DK reports, they were shopping nate--the Braves appraoached them

3) The Pirates should have no untouchable players.  The only players they have have who may be among the top 5 in baseball are Duke, based on his results so far this season, and Nate.  Duke's stats probably are in the top 5 for LH starters.    Nate is pretty high among CF in HR and RBI When you have no stars and someone makes an offer for one of yoir players you have to evaluate the offer and if you like it then you pull the trigger on the trade.

That does not mean it was a good trade, just not a salary dump.  I go back to the Neagle trade--they thought Schmidt would be as good as Neagle--and he was but with the Giants.  They also thought Wright was the slugger they coveted, and he wasn't.    Had Wright become a 35 to 40 HR player for 5 or 6 years that would have been an excellent trade.

My concern with this trade is that they sent away one their few hitters with any power.  As we have seen, even if Morton comes up and pitches well, where will the runs come from.  Duke would have at least 9 wins with some run support.

I second that.

                        IT'S GROUNDHOGS DAY!

Or as Yogi would say, deja vu all over again.

ants marching==============================================

Without resorting to anything flip, I finally do understand the thinking in this FO, they truly do see trading away parts of the team to build a reliable conduit of talent between the minors and PBC.  

But I am honestly confused, what did we get in this trade?  We traded a reliable and productive outfielder for two prospects and a pitcher whose limited major league experience resulted in a 6+ ERA?  If the idea was to unblock McCutchen, did we have to jettison McClouth to do that?  

Regardless the business model, the fact is that baseball is a team sport.  It has been said that Wilson and Sanchez already think the season has been torpedoed by this move.  If the FO thinks all team members are merely pieces to be sold for "prospects", how is this philosophy good for building a winning team?  

I am just putting this out as I am truly confused.  

Whats with everyone jumping ship now? You put up with 16 years of losing and can't take one trade? It's not like this team was going to be competitive this year or next.

Matt,

You just don't get it.

That one trade signals another 2 or 3 more years of losing.

Enough is enough.

Here's my immediate concern:

Huntingdon referring to Gorkys as a "table setter".  Well, the Bucs really don't need another one, we need sluggers who can clear the table.  McLouth was our top power bat in the lineup.  Not to mention his SB success.  

I liked someone's quote above about his wife and that she won't have any more "favorite players. That's what it's coming to unfortunately.

(Joey Bats - yeah, even MORE proposects to track now!!  Thanks and good luck. It's becoming a full time job, huh?)

@freylaw24 wrote re: Morning links: Instant trade reaction

on Jun 4, 2009 7:32 AM

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If you are not using the tickets and have not given them away yet please send them to me.

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Nate McLouth - Best of luck to you young man.

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Clubhouse attitude and signing contracts.  

If you look at it right it may be in your best interest to sign a decent and long contract if you really want out.  maybe you will be traded to a decent team that is in the hunt now.

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NUHO - I thought you said you were done. I see several more posts from you?  Can't give up yet I see.

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Smokey and roxtar

Some nice posts there.......

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Billykidd

Don;t jump off the bridge yet, I did not see such a short string with you and the PBC.  Hang on for awhile and lets see what else happens.  I am sure there is more to come and a picture will evolve.  Hopefully!

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Capn- JHadar

Wish I could make the game and be there but I can't.  Have fun and give us a report.

Uh oh, Neil and Frank are getting an email from Billy the Kid !!

Everyone duck!  

:)

Oh, and I think it's really is unprofessional that Bucco management aren't even in PIttsburgh to deal with the player, fan fallout from this move.

A coincidence?  I don't think so.

I think not. - It's about time our local government and civic leaders get involved and perhaps consider litigation to end the Nutting era. - This is just flat out wrong. - NH

Hostage, you are absolutely correct. what we were promised and what we got are two different things. In the meantime, RAD $$ that should be going to libraries and parks and museums are being diverted to pay for stadiums whose profits go into private pockets.

This needs to stop.

Hostage << Are you still looking at 2010 as the year the club must start winning? >>

YES

@ BK

Comparring Nate to Roberto is wrong by every possible metric, that's just an over reaction, period

Borrowing part of a thought from a previous post:

If the Pirates had traded a similar package of prospects (Jose Tabata & Jeff Sues) plus Jeff Karstens for say, Ryan Church (Baseball Reference's most comparable player), would you be happy? I'd hate that trade.

The Pirates had the best offensive outfield in baseball last year and they were under .500

The Pirates have (had) the best defensive outfield in baseball this year and they are under .500

Very few teams that are 5 games under .500 at the beginning of June make the postseason. The players, as well as some fans, need to understand that punting on this season is not a bad thing.

In Spring Training 2008, McLouth was up against Morgan for the starting CF position. Since then, McLouth had a very good (not great 2008), and a half decent start to 2009. It is certainly not set in stone that he is going to be a star. We'll wait and see where his career goes, however I have more faith in McCutchen and Tabata over the long haul than McLouth. That being said, our outfield will be quite fine, sooner rather than later.

If Doumit and/or Sanchez go before the end of 2010, I will be plenty upset, unless a proven major leaguer is offered in return. Should Tabata, McCutchen, and Alvarez be traded before 2015, then we will be absolutely certain that management doesn't know what the heck they're doing.

Keep in mind, we have depth in the outfield. The infield on the other hand...

Bay...Nady...McLouth....Not only the best outfield in baseball for 1/2 of a season but also proof that the package deal does live on!

Dejan,

I respectfully ask that you don't post anymore links to anything by Keith Olbermann.  I really hate to post anything political here but any objective person who has ever watched his MSNBC show knows what a vile human he is.  Here recently called our former vice president a terrorist.  To compare our for VP to people that killed 3,000 people in New York and scores of others around the world is unacceptable,  Thank you