McLouth traded to Atlanta for three prospects; McCutchen coming to Pittsburgh

Holy Moses.  Does this mean McCutcheon will get called up?  Anyone know anthing about Hanson? I'm in shock!

Wow. Another one bites the dust. Seems they won't keep anybody who gets too good. If Hanson is part of the deal look for arm trouble to begin within 2 months.

wow

ugh no hanson... i was really excited if it was him

Dejan,

As much as I love Nate, Tommy Hanson would make this a no brainer with Andrew being ready at AAA ... I'm just praying to God you haven't gotten my hopes up prematurely. Ian Snell is in a world of hurt if he doesn't get himself straightened out now.

If I'm Hanson I'm already booking an appointment with Dr. James Andrews, because we all know that Tommy John surgery is in his immediate future. Talk about a guy who is DOOMED.

Do the Pirates still have to play out the string, or can they just shutter PNC Park early and ask everyone to come back in 2010 when, snicker, they'll field a competitive team.

no doubt.  if it had been hansen, id be all for it.  if it is true, i hope we call up mccutcheon just for his defense.  our OF defense has played a role in our almost .500 record.

I'm officially disappointed already. I assume 3 prospects means no Yunel Escobar either.

jurrjens? heyward? hernandez? any names floating out their yet

I'm not happy without Hanson.  I can't imagine what we possibly got then.  

Wow - shocking!  Guess we will see McCutchen tomorrow.  Gonna be interesting to see who we got.  

wow an offer we can't refuse... this better be good

So this idea of rebuilding is going to bet ougher that the fans wanted, many believed McLouth was a center piece for the future (as did I). They (management) better have gotten an over the top return.

An offer we can't refuse...  means 3 players who are 26

I hope its Jurrjens, but braves just released Glavine too. Maybe Nate will get some respect and All-Star votes like Bay is doing. Bummer to see Nate go, he was alot of fun. Is McCutch that ready? ooo boy

looking at some prospects lists the Braves have alot of talent in their system. On scout.com they had 3 players all higher ranked than Alvarez

Loved Nate, and sense that he'll periodically bite the pirates in a game, but....

I thought his bat was two-dimensional -- rolling over for a grounder to 2B or skying to the outfield (or over the fence, which was great).  Last night's double aside, he never sprayed the ball the way you would have hoped -- particularly for a 3-hitter.  Never ran enough either, but that's a minor complaint.  

Have to wonder if Medlan or Morton is one (or two) of the players.

With Nate now off the books and no replacement ready at SS, they need to give Jack 2 years for 10-12 million to stabilize the defense behind the young pitching, until Friday is hopefully ready in a couple of years.

A Major League source confirmed that the Pirates will send McLouth to the Braves in exchange for right-handed pitcher Charlie Morton, left-handed pitcher Jeff Locke and outfielder Gorkys Hernandez.

McLouth was traded near peak value.  We have a better defensive CF at AAA.  We have two solid veteran guys on the bench to play if need be.  And we have a CF playing LF.  Plus, Pearce is about ready for the majors too.

I loved Nate, but this is the type of move the Pirates have to make, assuming I like the guys they got in this trade.

Braves announce on tv that they got McLouth

Charlie Morton

Henrnandez

Jeff Lott or Luck

All 3 better be from this list if no Hanson

1. Tommy Hanson, rhp

2. Jason Heyward, of

3. Jordan Schafer, of

4. Gorkys Hernandez, of

5. Freddie Freeman, 1b

6. Cole Rohrbough, lhp

7. Jeff Locke, lhp

8. Julio Teheran, rhp

9. Kris Medlen, rhp

10. Craig Kimbrel, rhp

hanson was just called up from minors, which means there is a good chance we got pitcher from major league roster. Jurrjens?

WOW!  A power starved team just got a lot weaker.......  Does Huntington realize that to win the game, you have to score at least ONE run?  Good-bye Nate, your sentence has been commuted.........

Looking at thier AAA lineup tonight, OF Brandon Jones is not playing.  SS Diory Hernandez has not played in awhile despite showing.  Of Jordan Shafer who just got sent back to AAA is playing.

Braves Top 10 Prospects According to BA:

1. Hanson (Not happening, confirmed above)

2. Jason Heyward (OF)

3. Jordan Schaeffer (OF)

4. Gorkys Hernandez (OF)

5. Freddy Freeman (1B)

6. Cole Rohrbaugh (SP)

7. Jeff Locke (SP)

8. Julio Teheran (SP)

9. Kris Medlan (SP)

10. Craig Kimbrel (SP)

Would be very interesting if Freeman is one of the prospects as he has been described as "Mark Grace with more power".  Getting him with any two of those prospects above would be quite the haul.  

according to mlbtraderumors.com we are getting LHP Jeff Locke, OF Gorkys Hernandez, and RHP Charlie Morton

PBC has shown me over the last year that they are serious as hell in developing a team.  This is not their year, and they know it.  They have some pieces, but Nate was not irreplaceable.  Cutch is coming east.  He's ready.  

I'm thinking that although Nate was a fine player, they're going for guys who have the chance to be great players.  And Atlanta is loaded.  I just hope none of them are third basemen.

8) Gorkys Hernandez, OF, Grade B-: Would like to see more power, other skills coming along.

10) Jeff Locke, LHP, Grade B-: I’ve liked him since he was in high school. Like Rohrbough, worry some about injuries.

Charlie Morton ---  ML pitcher

One report says: Charlie Morton and Jeff Locke along with outfielder Gorkys Hernandez

Charlie Morton (AAA RHP), Jeffrey Locke (A LHP) and Gorkys Hernandez (AA CF), according to the scuttlebutt on the AJC blog.

Nevermind my post...here are scouting reports of those guys.

Gorkys Hernandez:

Background: Hernandez won the Rookie-level Gulf Coast League batting title and low Class A Midwest League award in his first two seasons in the United States, then was part of a one-sided trade with the Tigers that also delivered Jair Jurrens in exchange for Edgar Renteria. Hernandez missed a month in 2008 with a hamstring injury, but recovered to earn accolades from managers as the most exciting player in the high Class A Carolina League.

Strengths: Hernandez has all the tools to be a quintessential leadoff hitter and center fielder. He drives the ball from gap to gap with his line-drive swing and is a weapon on the bases with his above-average speed. He covers tremendous ground in center with his quickness and precise routes, and he also has a strong, accurate arm.

Weaknesses:  While he has made improvements by cutting down on his swing, particularly with two strikes, Hernandez still gives away too many at-bats. He doesn't have much home run power but still swings for the fences on occasion. A more refined approach and improved strike-zone judgment will boost his modest walk totals and on-base percentage.

The Future: With Jordan Schafer and Hernandez, the Braves have two of the premier center-field prospects in the game. Their skills are similar, and Schafer is only one rung higher on the organizational ladder. Hernandez will spend 2009 in Double-A.

Jeff Locke

Background:  Locke ended 2007 on a seven-game winning streak, but last season was not as kind. He lacked run support throughout most of the year and ranked third in the South Atlantic League with 12 losses. Nevertheless, he maintained his composure and showed three solid-average pitches.

Strengths: Locke's two best pitches are a 91-94 mph fastball with good movement and a hard curveball that borders on being a plus offering. He also throws a changeup that continues to show improvement with its depth. He does an excellent job of keeping the ball down in the zone, which helped limit opponents to six homers in 2008. His herky-jerky delivery creates deception and makes it difficult for hitters to pick up the ball. His mound presence and competitiveness are impressive for a young hurler.

Weaknesses: Locke tends to fall out of sync in his delivery and needs to repeat his mechanics with more consistency to achieve better command. He throws strikes but can locate his pitchers better in the zone. He needs to fine-tune some of the nuances of his craft, such as fielding his position, holding runners and covering and backing up bases.

The Future: The best pitching prospect from New Hampshire since Chris Carpenter, Locke has the ability to be a workhorse in the middle of a major league rotation. His next stop will be high Class A.

Charlie Morton

Top 10 prospects bubble, no scouting report

Consider me underwhelmed.  That is what blew away NH?

I am overjoyed and actually might start following the Bucs again.  I haven't seen this type of proactive since Sid Thrift.

Here I was trying to find a link for Lynchburg and I had given up and tuned into Altoona...and heard this over their broadcast.

I am SO depressed right now.  :-(

Isnt Hernandez a McCutcheon clone though?  Kinda disappointing that we didnt get a power bat like Freeman or Heyward in the deal.  Just not sure how much you can win with two leadoff guys like McCutcheon and Hernandez in the OF with a 3B like LaRoche who has a good bat without much power, and not much power coming anywhere else outside of Alvarez

G.Hernandez does not look impressive with his 15 BB and 54 Ks at AA.  He is hitting .316 with 11 2Bs and 2 3Bs.  But 0 HRs.

Not at all impressed with this return.  It's almost as though NH was so stunned to get a trade offer that he simply said yes out of confusion.

What's the plan for Gorkys?  Where does he fit?

Neither of these pitchers looks like a top of the rotation guy.  McLouth was a piece to build around or trade for a HUGE piece.  Trading him for depth that doesn't appear to have much potential is inexcusable.

McCutchen's debut tomorrow is going to be a bit bittersweet.  Of course, when we trade him four years from now for Geoff Blum, I'll feel worse.

i posted that earlier gradings from a site.  i forgot to link it....  here is the link.

www.minorleagueball.com/.../atlanta-braves-top-20-pros

CBS Sports says about Morton this past winter, "Morton put himself on the map in the first half, going 5-2 with a 2.05 ERA and 0.99 WHIP in Triple-A, but he might have taken himself right back off it with his numbers with the Braves (4-8)-6.19-1.63. He heads to spring training among a slew of candidate for the No. 5 starter's spot, but we figure he will get some more time to develop in Triple-A. The 25-year-old right-hander will be up and starting for the Braves at some point in 2009, but we like his prospects better in the long term and only slightly in the short term." (Updated 12/22/08)"

Here's the skinny I got from a poster on the Braves blog, for what it's worth:

Gorkys Hernandez is one of the top OF prospects in all of minor league baseball — maybe the best defensively. Locke is a guy who has been somewhat erratic but is viewed to have great stuff and a very high ceiling in terms of potential. Charlie Morton has been pitches lights out at the AAA level, but has been more miss than hit at the major league level. he has good stuff and knows how to pitch but struggles with confidence at times.

Wow. This trade SUCKS. McLouth had a GREAT contract. I'm very close to moving toward the NuHo line.

Oh man.  A singlular bright spot on our roster once again shipped out for prospects.  Yes it appeared that McCutchen was ready for the show, but to dish Nate?  We still had RF wide open.  I guess will have win with singles and SBs now.

I'm with you, BAB...I have no words right now.  I'm glad I wasn't at the park...It would have been like the night Nady got traded all over for me.  

I'm not to impressed with Hernandez...  I don't know what we are doing with all these OF's... Moss, McCutcheon, Tabata, Hernandez.  But on the other side I'm happy at least that they made a move while his value was probably at its highest.  

BayBuc,

I will join you toward the NuHo line.  When are the Bucs going get some pop in this line up?

THe Pirates have no conception of obligation to their fan base.  The new management team has followed the same pattern as the previous one in trading away all good talent in return for prospects (read cheaper).  Anyone continuing to purchase season tickets to this team is a hopeless romantic.  

I think MLB has to change revenue sharing to the point that no team can receive funds for more than 2 years in a row if they don't get payroll to the median.

And, the cycle continues... as soon as a player becomes decent at the Major League level, they trade him under the guise that "it was an offer we couldn't refuse," or "we have to move good players to get good prospects in the system."

Assuming one of these players becomes an above-average player, the Yankees will be calling in three years.

This is exactly the type of trade the Buccos need to make in order to get better.  They had to trade someone from the OF eventually, especially with McCutchen ready to come up.  Nyjer Morgan has shown he is the real deal, and he fits the team well covering the large LF space.

We added two pitchers, one of which is ML ready.  Now we have another option for Ian Snell's spot if he doesn't get better. And we added CF OF depth.  Now Jose Tabata or the newly acquired Hernandez will be sent to AAA to play CF.  This is exactly how a small market team competes in the current market.

Great job Bucs!

Gorkys Hernandez is hitting .316 in double A and turns 22 in September. He's the definite jewel of this deal.

Jeff Locke is getting lit up at advanced Class A ball: 1-3, 5.52 ERA in 10 starts...just 45.2 innings! Four and a half innings per start! GREAT!

Charlie Morton is 7-2, 2.51 ERA in 10 starts. 64.2 innings pitched. 55 ks/16 walks. Those are great numbers.

Not happy with this trade at all.  Any truth McClouth got traded because he was rooting for the Red Wings last night? Do it up Nate...you played baseball the way you are supposed to. You will be missed.

WOW

We got back JVB, Chad Hermansen and Matt Bruback.

More dumps on the horizon.

Keep your bags packed, Freddy, Adam, Jack and Ryan.

The message from the front office:  Don't get too good, we will trade you for prospects!

OR

Someone in the Braves organization has compromising pics of NH.

HAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!

Hilarious.

                 IT'S A CULTURE OF WINNING!

Quantity over quality yet again.  I'm pretty sure my head would explode if the Pirates actually obtained a top prospect in a deal.  McLouth isn't an All-Star player, but he's more valuable to the Pirates than to another team.  

Maybe NH was preparing us for this moment with all of his "Nyjmo is the best OF in baseball according to our metrics" talk.  

With our lack of power now, maybe we can install astroturf, move the fences back 30 feet, and bring in Whitey Herzog to manage.

reported at this site:  http://www.talkingchop.com/

"Just hours after releasing Hall of Famer Tom Glavine, the Braves acquired outfielder Nate McLouth from the Pirates in exchange for pitcher Charlie Morton, minor-league outfielder Gorkys Hernandez, and minor-league pitcher Jeff Locke.

First reaction. Holy CRAP we gave up a lot! But we get a center fielder with power and speed. Holy crap, Morton, Gorkys, AND Locke?!?

[UPDATE: 7:25pm]

Coming down from the fence, I'm starting to think a little more sensibly about this. Someone mentioned it in the comments, and they're right, Morton is a spare part after Hanson and Medlen, Gorkys is blocked by Schafer and at least a year away, and McLouth is a better player and already a proven major leaguer, and Locke has not been that good this year and seems to be getting progressivly worse each step up the minor league ladder (though he is still a young toolsy pitcher).

Since the Pirates seem determined to get rid of Wilson as well, you'd think they would try and get some middle infield talent from this trade.

Is this positioning to free up some cash for Sano ?

This is a bad PR move which will be all but forgotten if we sign the Dominican.

Geez...I sure hope we SAVE some payroll on this deal ...because it's all about saving the $$$$$ for the Nuttings !!!

I think the best way to compete is put the best talent in PNC Park, not Indianapolis or Altoona.

Obviously management does not want to see a winner in 2009 and is looking toward 2011.

I think the only thing worse would be if Nate were traded to Baltimore where he and Matt W. would tear it up together.

Hernandez is a fraud and Morton the 2nd coming of Hanson.  You basically traded Nate for Hanson, and Endy Chavez.  Hernandez is fast, and has all the tools, but can't hit.

I had some faith in this group, and now, well, I've lost quite a bit.  

If this is a "godfather" offer, did NH find a horse's head yesterday?

My heart is beating too fast for this.  

The consensus this Spring was that Nyjmo was the placeholder for Cutch.

In the end, it was Nate who kept his seat warm.

The power of the Nyjmo bus exemplified.

Joey & Cave,

Nero Nuttingdon just saved Bob $15.75 million dollars and sold Pirate fans out yet again.

If we sign Sano after this, it will quiet down a lot of critics.  Maybe they'll sign Tommy Glavine.  haha!

I'll miss Nate the Great, but this is a solid trade.  Braves game talking about trade now.

Don't look behind you, Ian.......

So, if I understand this correctly, we traded a gold glove outfielder, who led our team in homers and rbi, came to play every night, and was a good citizen, for a guy who might be  good outfielder some day, but has little to no power, and two pitchers  who will probably need reconstructive shoulder surgery shortly after they get into the Pirates minor league system?  

Don't know what to think yet.

BAB, although Locke's ERA and BB numbers aren't encouraging, the IP numbers could be misleading, as a lot of organizations keep pitchers on very strict pitch counts at that level.

WhyStan

Where are you coming up with "can't hit" for Hernandez? He's hitting .316! That's .013 higher than prodigal son McCutchen.

Hate to say it folks, but get ready for Paul Maholm to the Phillies for one of their quad-A pitchers and a low level hitter.  This trade makes me sick.

Lets not get over excited here...  McLouth might have been our best player but on some teams he's not close.  Look at his career numbers...

.261 average

60 HR

194 RBI

481 games

What do you expect for those numbers?  Lets also look that he's off to a .256 start and didn't exactly have a great 2nd half of last season.  He's solid when he has players around him.  

Not really sure what we expected but its obvious we are emotional based on Nate's potential more than his actual body of work.  

maybe it will help you all feel better.  think about it like we traded Nate for Andrew McCutchen and Charlie Morton, a ML ready starting pitcher.  and ML ready starting pitchers do not come cheap.

and we got a very highly thought of CF prospect another highly thought of starting pitcher prospect.  great trade.  be excited!  

McCutchen may be better than McLouth, anyway.  plus, Nate rooted for Red Wings.  to heck with him.

Please tell me this is one of those "Shawn Kemp to the Bulls for Scottie Pippen" type deals that gets rejected once management hears the fan reaction.

Gorkys has a slightly higher average than McCutchen at a lower level.  Not a legitimate comparison.

Regardless, OPS is the better metric for judgment and McCutchen is trending upwards toward .900 there.  

There's no comparison here on production.  Gorkys is no McCutchen.  

Nate's career numbers are meaningless.  The Pirates batted him solely against lefties his first two years to protect Chris Duffy.  Another case of excellent talent management by the previous regime.

The other move we have not made and is starting to puzzle me is McCutchen, he is ready to come up and help this club now. I understand we dont want to trade NYJMO or give up on Brandon but i have a news flash, Andrew is better than both of the right now. He is as fast or faster than NYJMO plays a more consistent outfield and he's a better hitter. As it relates to Brandon, speed not even close and i believe he's not only a better hitter but he has more power=Andrew 4 hr  Brandon 1hr. NH needs to continue to make this club better this year, Andrew would make us better now!

BaBs, WOW i told you he was ready!!!!!  but honestly i never expected them to trade Nate, i am stunned!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hate this move.

If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, then it must be a duck. This move smells like a salary dump, like a signal of no shot of .500 this year or next.

If you want to make this trade more acceptable... move all the veterans and go completely young. This means no more Jack Wilson, Adam LaRoche, Freddy Sanchez, John Grabow, and Craig Monroe.

When are people going to just accept it, this is what this organization does.. Don't be shocked if Sanchez or Maholm iosn't traded at some point this year.

They will give you the building the farm excuse, but you can't continue giving away your top MLB talent to do it.

I enjoy going toa  few games a year to do something, but I haven't followed this team throughly since 99. Its the whole Ownership, its the same Ownership.

Respefully, I would rather have seen Nyjmo traded than Nate.  I am absolutely ill right now.

Nate's potential?  He is maxed out.

We traded him at his peak.  He will bat leadoff in Atlanta.  The reason he leads our team in HRs and RBIs is because he bats 3rd in our lineup.  If Monroe or Hinske were the starter and batted 3rd, he'd lead the team in those categories.

Starting Pitching!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"we traded a gold glove outfielder, who led our team in homers and rbi, , for a guy who might be  good outfielder some day, but has little to no power"

You forgot a slap hitter who has 15BB and 55K's this season.  Awesome, sounds like a great leadoff hitter, oh wait, we have one.  Maybe we could trade every HR hitter on the team and have an all singles team.

I wasn't against the idea of trading McLouth at his highest value but this is a sickeningly awful trade.

An offer he couldn't refuse???? Laughable. If the Braves had included Hanson or Heyward rather than Hernandez, then it would have been too good to pass up. As it stands I am embarrassed to be a Pirate fan. Huntington and Coonelly just lost my support. Screw you Huntington!!!!

I wasn't against the idea of trading McLouth at his highest value but this is a sickeningly awful trade.

An offer he couldn't refuse???? Laughable. If the Braves had included Hanson or Heyward rather than Hernandez, then it would have been too good to pass up. As it stands I am embarrassed to be a Pirate fan. Huntington and Coonelly just lost my support. Screw you Huntington!!!!

We should all rejoice in this deal.

Nutting saved some money for the partners and the clamoring fan base will finally get to see Andrew McCutchen walk on water.

I am done with this team.  I have been a Pirate fan since 1970.  No more.  Every time they get someone worth showing up at the ballpark for - they trade them away.  Nate is 27 years old and an ALLSTAR.  If we can't build our team around him then WHAT EXACTLY ARE WE DOING????  I guess these three clowns we got in exchange for him become the building blocks for rebuilding effort number 5????  I'll bet that their three salaries combined don't equal Nate's salary for this year - which is the REAL REASON this trade was made.  The Pirates are an absolute joke.  To make matters worse - they are no longer just the laughingstocks of professional baseball - they have now become the laughingstocks of all professional sports.  I beg everyone in Pittsburgh to vote with their feet and STOP SHOWING UP at PNC Park!!!!!!  

I don't want to say I told you so, but...................

I LOVE IT , DONT BE SCARED NOW PEOPLE,

Everyday there was a blogger saying can't wait for Andrew and now we get him , Also Nate had reached his peak and 3 potential starters , 2 being pitchers secures the future and like I said or we all said we saw this coming....They say they didnt shop NATE and I beleive them..I am so EXCITED to see ANDREW play, ...

Look at the last trade, I didnt think Moss was anything and now he can become a cornerstone in RF, Look at ANDY , he is on his way of becoming the future at 3rd so in essence I think we got over....

boruboru

That may be what management wants us to think, that we got McCutchen in this trade...but I've been excited about McCutchen for years. We already had Andrew McCutchen. Didn't need to trade one of our best hitters to get him.

"Nate's potential?  He is maxed out.

We traded him at his peak. "

I'd posit that his peak may have been during the offseason, but yeah, this is pretty much Nate's peak value.

BAB- I saw him play 6 times last year.  Now if you look what the White Sox got back for Vasquez, this is an absolute theft by the Braves.  

NH and the Pirates need to UPDATE their ratings on players.  Gorky is VASTLY over-rated, think Vince Young in football.

Sometimes you need to have past years Baseball America Prospect Handbooks to get a full story.

This is where you find out that Gorkys Hernandez was part of the trade that sent Jair Jurrjens to Atlanta from Detroit.

He was signed originally by the Tigers in 2005. Makes you wonder if he would have been part of that Jack Wilson-Jair Jurrjens trade 2 years ago.

The 2007 BA handbook had Gorkys as the Tigers #7 prospect after he tore up the Gulf Coast League in 2006.

He is very young, and at age 19 led the Gulf Coast League in hitting, runs and hits. while finishing second in steals and total bases.

Says he's a natural lead-off hitter with gap-to-gap stroke. His raw power & arm strength are solid, and gets very good jumps & covers significant real estate in centerfield.

So thats the lowdown from the 2007 BA prospect handbook.

The 2009 BA handbook has him, as you have read already, 4th best prospect on the Braves.

It may turn out in the long run that he can make this a winning trade for the Pirates all by himself.

Still, I am with those who are wondering where the hell the power is going to come from? Maybe we can get Sammy Sosa & Albert Belle to show us how they corked their bats, (and find a better way to reseal them).

Even when Doumit comes back we know he won't have full power, a normal problem that comes from any wrist injury.

We may be better off with Garrett Jones in left than Nyjer, just to get some power in the line-up.

Hernandez is pretty young for AA, so those are pretty solid numbers.  And he's young enough that the power may come.

Having said that, I dunno.  Too many "ifs" for me in this deal.  It could work out great, but I'm just not sure right now.

Sano is also projected as a toolsy outfielder. So the Bucs end up with a mini van full of fast line drive hitting outfielders but retain an aging set of middle infielders and now have a team with minimal home run potential and no power on the horizon. Why not Jason Heyward and one pitcher? Quality for quality.

I can't honestly believe this is a salary dump.  Please someone tell me that isn't the case.  Please.

Wilson may be a reliever, bc he is getting shelled at Fredrick.

Wonderful. The Pirates will be starting a lineup tomorrow which will have exactly 2 players in it with more than Two home runs this season...Freddy and Adam. With the exception of those two...the entire lineup will have a grand total of 4 HR's this season (Moss 1, Andy 2, catcher 1). And if you want to count career ML HR's outside of Adam...you'd barely break 100...and most of that is Jack and Freddy.

This team now has no power outside of Mr. Salary Drive (Adam LaRoche).

I'm liking my 60-102 prediction more each day...and I'm afraid that may be optimistic with whatever happens at the trade deadline.

This deal is obviously for the future. I guess we are going to have a bunch of OF that can run...but little power.

We'd better check out who the Cubs have in the minors that they don't want, Grabow is next....the Cubs need a lefty in the pen bad.  

Sounds like we traded a good ballplayer for three potentially average ones. Bold move, but it looks poorly done.

They might as well gut the whole thing now, including the pitching staff. If the next wave (Alvarez, Tabata et. al.) aren't going to be producing before the Pirates young core flees for free agency, gut the whole thing.

Relax, folks.  This is a good trade.  I love Nate, but he's replaceable.  We have two pitching prospects (one of whom is ML capable, the other has a great but untrained arm) and an  OF who will be a 400+ OBP with range and vector.

Bring on Cutch and see what happens.

Whystanbelinda,

Bob Nutting just saved $15.75 million.

I guess as a bit of perspective, when the Braves were looking to acquire Jake Peavy in the offseason, two of the names thrown about were Hernandez and Locke (and Hanson was off limits).

Don't like the deal at all, but I think this clearly illustrates what Neal must think about the minor league pitching beyond Brad Lincoln

KABOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!...time to blow it up..boys and girls. We now know that this season is in the trash, in management's eyes. They have NOT addressed any perceived weaknesses in the organization other than a need for warm bodies. May as well dump all the assets that wouldn't be back next year anyway. Gonna be busy on July 31st...if not before. Maybe one of them might bring us a good power hitter...since we won't have any after Adam gets traded...until Pedro gets here...if that happens any time soon.

Juniata

Hernandez and Locke are viewed as high-ceiling guys. They both are MUCH more hyped than Nate McLouth ever was, put it that way.

All

I'm pretty sure this trade was done because so many people refused to learn the correct spelling of McLouth. With that in mind, please correct your spelling of McCutchen now.

I can hear the Pirate brass take on this already:

"Hey, with Morgan, McCutchen and Hernandez we can start a lineup of three leadoff hitters! Sure we traded our best player and best powewr hitter in each of the last 2 years for questionable pitchers of AAAA status. And yes, we have little power now, but next year when we obligatorily trade Doumit for another leadoff hitter and AAAA pitchers. we can start an outfield of FOUR leadoff hitters. No-one in Baseball history has ever been able to have four leadoff hitting outfielders playing at the same time. Of course, we will not be able to field a Catcher, but we figure the other team won't mind putting one up for us, like in the company softball game."

This your Pittsburgh Pirates.

Now I was not against trading Nate. I just thought maybe we could get a top line prospect or a power hitting prospect back. This sucks

GREAT perspective FormerSoxFan...

Here's an old post from mlbtraderumors:

the Padres and Braves were discussing a 4-for-1 Jake Peavy deal in November.  Yunel Escobar and Gorkys Hernadez were agreed upon.  The conflict came as the Padres wanted Charlie Morton over Jo-Jo Reyes as well as Jeff Locke or Tyler Flowers over Blaine Boyer.

So we got the three players the Padres wanted, and no Yunel Escobar....and that was what they WANTED for JAKE PEAVY, a triple crown winning pitcher.  WOW. That makes me feel better. (Until you remember that Kevin Towers is a moron.)

       As happy as i am to see Andrew come up i am shocked to see NATE go, what we essentially got for Nate was Morton . He can pitch and i suspect he not Gorzo will replace Snell. With Nate gone and Cutch here i wouldnt be suprised to see Andrew in the 2 hole and Freddy at 3 but we will see.

             Acquiring Gutierez shocks me unless there going to move NYJMO too  WWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW

The Nutting Pirates ... charging MLB prices to watch Triple AAA talent.

HOW ABOUT A TICKET PRICE BREAK ??

Doc

We actually have several good catchers. But your point beyond that made me realize what we're doing. The Pirates looked at Tony LaRussa -- supergenius -- and said "If he can start a #9 hitter that is not the pitcher and call it a 'second leadoff man' and win more games, why not try to have even MORE leadoff men?"  And thus, we now have three. Look out, we're coming for your speedy, no power outfielders!  Step right up and take the last remaining guys on this team that can hit homeruns. We won't need 'em where we're going...

Would anyone hazard to guess the 2nd stop on this upcoming road trip?  I'll give you 3 guesses and the first 2 don't count.

Though I am absolutely nauseous about this.  I can't believe this is a salary dump...sorry, Hostage, talk until the circle in your avi turns blue.  I don't agree that this is a good trade yet, but I guess I'm just optimistic enough to believe that Huntington knows what he's doing.  

I don't exactly see what McCutchen has to do with this.  Sure he was coming up soon, but Morgan has no power and Gorky is a 15BB, 55K with zero HR's?  If you keep Morgan we have no use for anonther slap hitter no discipline no power guy.  McClouth was our three hitter and locked up with a contract.  

Why on earth not trade Morgan, when McCutchen is a younger more powerful cheaper Morgan and keep McClouth who is locked up with a great contract?

An offer we couldn't refuse?  Unbelieveable.

Thunder,

How do you blow up a club that already has the 3rd lowest payroll in the sport???

It was already blown up before they dumped McLouth.

LOL!

wow - this is deja vu all over again!

This is just like the bums we got for Jason Bay, why couldnt we trade for a SS and fill a real need right now.  How many outfielders do we need in the minors?

NH is another horrible GM handcuffed by the worst owners in baseball.  If they hadnt just used taxpayer money to build PNC the Pirates might as well shut down operations.

BAB,

"Here's an old post from mlbtraderumors:

the Padres and Braves were discussing a 4-for-1 Jake Peavy deal in November.  Yunel Escobar and Gorkys Hernadez were agreed upon.  The conflict came as the Padres wanted Charlie Morton over Jo-Jo Reyes as well as Jeff Locke or Tyler Flowers over Blaine Boyer.

So we got the three players the Padres wanted, and no Yunel Escobar....and that was what they WANTED for JAKE PEAVY, a triple crown winning pitcher.  WOW. That makes me feel better. (Until you remember that Kevin Towers is a moron.)"

Well, yes, Towers is a moron.  But the Braves didn't want to give those guys up for Peavy.  And as much as we all loved Nate, he's no Jake Peavy.

I of much hope am not feeling good ju-ju right now.

I get that Cutch is ready.

I GET trading for pitchers. But crud on a crutch - I was thinking major league, Joba Chamberlain/Zambrano/Big Unit in his heyday stuff.

A-ball? Srsly?

wow.

Message from  BK: He's done with this club. Becuase of this.

Prediction... Keith Law , who described McLouth as the worst starting center fielder in MLB will suddenly start seeing his positives now that he's a Brave.

FormerSoxFan

You're definitely right about all of that.

I'm out for the night. Extra meds, please. See yinz tomorrow.

ORIGINALLY POSTED ON FEBRUARY 14, 2009:

I had a weird dream last night.

Then I read Pirates.com

The Reports today on Pirates.com told us that Nate McLouth feels the Pirates will offer him a reasonable deal.   Arbitration is scheduled for Tuesday in Arizona.   Wow, this wasn't what I dreamt.

I dont see Nate wearing the number 13 for our hometown Pirates much longer.

Nate was quoted as saying, "I don't have anything concrtete it's just a feeling."  Well my feeling is completely different.  Sure they may reach a one year deal.  I just got a feeling that he will be gone.  A one-year deal makes it less complicated for his next team.

McLouth is at the height of value for the Pirates.  Winning a gold glove and slugging .467 on the year will do that for a team.   He was all everything in the minors, but nothing from 2005 to 2007  showed he could pull this season together.  Sure some of you and everyone in the Pirates organization will say they saw it coming, except Tracy and the former Pirates staff who kept him on the bench behind Duffy and Morgan, etc.  However going into last year, most of McLouth's peers picked him to have the breakout year that he did in 2008.

I thought he could have a solid year, but nothing like the career year he put together.  I was wrong last year and might be wrong again.

In spite of fading during the home stretch, McLouth somehow became the face of the Pirates after the trades of Bay, etc... No matter how you put excuses together, he didnt have a complete year.  Which concerns me.  He now is literally in every FSN commercial here in Pittsburgh.  I trust we take advantage of his value now before it could be too late.

Why wouldn't the Pirates package him?  Have you seen any starting pitching that without question makes you feel confident in our Pirates this season?  The club is coming around, but one bad season by a player will have an impact.  We need some luck and some tough decisions to be made.  I think this is a tough decision, but a necessary one at this time.

I am certain the Pirates are concerned about the perception.  But the fact is this, perception is important but shouldn't guide the decisions of our ballclub.  I know fans are not going to like the idea, but I think McLouth should be traded.

Of course you remember Andy Van Slyke.   I just happened to be watching Sportsbeat Rewind on this chilly afternoon and maybe this was what stirred my dream.  A very bad dream.  Back in 1994  GM Cam Bonifay was introduced by a smiling Stan Savarn.  "The Pirates have a big announcement," said Savarn.  I don't think Stan had any idea what was about to be said.

Then the camera zoomed to a stern Cam Bonifay GM of the Pirates who matter of factly uttered, "Well, I just wanted to let our fans know...we had discussions with Andy yesterday and we've made a decision that we will not ask Andy back and will not extend him a contract for next year.  ....it took a lot of time, a lot of consideration on our part.  WE FEEL GOOD ABOUT IT..."  Bonifay said this in a manner like I tell my wife to close the garage door or turn off the lights.

I'm not saying McLouth is Van Slyke.  How can anyone match this quote from old number 18 after all this was announced, "I owe the Pittsburgh Pirates more than I will ever be able to pay back.  I'm endebted to the Pirates the rest of my life."

Pure class.

I am preparing myself for the latest Pirates announcement.  I don't know when, but I hope it comes soon.  McLouth should get a contract, but I surely trust we are working on a deal for him.  Maybe it won't happen, but if it does, I am thrilled with it.

BayArea

They might be highly regarded, but their stats are really underwhelming. Yes, they're young. Still... those numbers...

I'm all for trading everyone of any value from the major league squad because they have no one coming up to complement them. AAA and AA are barren. It makes sense to trade Doumit, Maholm and Duke, IF they get a good return. Did they today? It doesn't look promising. One pretty decent-looking pitcher and two 21 year olds with sub-par stats.

And to think, I was worried we wouldn't have anything to talk about with the rainout tonight?

                    HUNTINGTON HAS HIS JUKE!

Well Bay Buc, with four outfielders playing beer league softball style at the same time, we are gonna have to leave one position open, unless MLB feels great pity on us and lets us have 10 players at a time in a game, since we are fielding such a pathetic team.

McCutchen will be lucky to hit 15 homers a year within the next 2 years, Hernandez and NyjMo will be lucky to hit 15 between them IN any 2 year period! ( In fact, I think Hernandez's ceiling is NyjMo's present)

Hell, Alvarez better be nervous, because if the Pirate team is to hit 100 home runs as a team in 2 years, he's gonna have to hit 80 of them!

This is a bad, bad, bad, bad trade. McCutchen will be better than Chad Hermansen, maybe even McLouth. But he will never hit with as much power as Nate, nor will he ever be good as Jason Bay. But we did just save a lot of money!

Do you think the Pirates can call back the Braves and ask for a do-over?

The more I think about it...What is Nate hitting this year?  .256, and he's slumping?  His career average is .261, so he's hitting right around his average.  This trade might be far better than what I thought initally.  McLouth might have been the best player on the team (based on last year's numbers) but he'd be sitting on the bench in a lot towns based on his career numbers..

Will the commercial on FSN be amended to say "I'm Nate McLouth, and I WAS a Pirate?"

Did Pujols come in a package deal? Are we missing part of the info here?

Nope...an offer we couldn't refuse would have included Heyward.

So now...our outfield prospects are all fast...with (at least for now) no power. Our 3B has 8 HR in a season's worth of at bats in the majors (tomorrow will be Andy's 162nd game in the majors). Nyjer has 1...Moss has 9...our catcher...which ever one starts...has 1...our middle infield combination...neither has had more than a dozen in a season in their careers. We've got very little power at AAA or AA.

How is this situation going to be fixed. If chicks dig the long ball...there aren't gonna be any chicks around this team for a long time. No disrespect to any of our favorite female inmates intended.

POH,

Tell I said to look at the bright side.

At least Coonelly came and had a nice town hall meeting with the gang back during the off season.

Is this really as bad as everyone is making this out to be? Take a deep breath and look at this from some other angles. Here's some ideas.

Assume some OF combo of Hernandez, McCutchen, Tabata, (and Morgan). With a larger LF in PNC, a center fielder type will fit perfectly there. A team with that OF would work, although there wouldn't be much threat of HR power. We would then need power at both corner infielder positions (Alvarez at either 1B or 3B, etc...) and catcher at least to compensate.

Also what we have in Pittsburgh now is basically it with pitching depth, aside from Lincoln. We're going to need more guys coming up with the young position players to have a well-rounded team. Someone like Locke will hopefully pan out with Bryan Morris, etc... to supplement people like Maholm.

Also at 27, McLouth is at what many stat geeks feel is the peak of the typical player's statistical peak (27-28)

Does this trade really look as horrible if you look at perspectives like this?

It really seems Locke is the key to this deal.

He's struggled this year in A+ ball, but he's 21 years old, and has the stuff to be a quality starter.  It's a high-risk/high-reward kind of deal.  Baseball America says he has "the ability to be a workhorse in the middle of a major league rotation."  Let's hope so.

sitting here in the office with little ron d (10) and watching FSN about the 60 pirates--so he can see a time when the team was actually run well and played well

really-- can it get any worse with this owner and mgt team...mcclouth? 4 games under? for guys that may be good in the future? what a joke.....absolutely sickening

look for laroche and wilson to be next

what a fu--in joke

Dejan...any word on who will replace Cutch on Indy's roster?? Any chance that Tabata goes to Indy when he gets healthy (reportedly in the next week or two)??

In all the confusion i accidentally called Hernandez Gutierez  i guess we are all out of sorts after this.

I bet this is why Nate cut his hair. So he'd be adoptable.

It never ends and now I have to listen to the Pirates justify this deal. Its bad few CF have the power, speed, and defense that McLouth has! You give up your best player and don't get Heyward, Schafer, Freeman, or Hansen? Only the Pirates!!!

Yes McCutchen gets his shot which might be exciting if he was standing beside McLouth. I'm so tired of being a Pirate fan!

So I guess if we pitch perfect games, win 1-0 its will be ok!!

So cutting off one of the arms of this team was a good move?

So how excited with the players and fans be now?

Is McCutchen that good and can replace those HRs and RBIs?

My personal opinion, another debacle in a long line of debacles starting with trading/losing Sid Bream to Atlanta Braves and he eventually scoring the winning run to break our hearts...

You all know the entire major leagues just waits outside pirates management and our owners office waiting till we open em and do something stupid for us and great for other teams right?

We were lousy with hope... Now, lordy..

Go Pens

David

I have to think Cutch is going to hit 3rd or 2nd. Freddy may move to 5th if they want to put Andy 2nd and Cutch 3rd.. .Just a thought, anway. I think Adam needs a good hitter after him to keep him from being pitched around. He's way too selective for a run producer. Walks are nice from your table setters, but I hate when run producers take walks.

Damn, I only tuned in here to see when the rain-out was rescheduled for, and I get all this. I think it sucks for the Pirates because there is absolutely no power left on the team.

On a personal level though, I own McLouth in my two fantasy leaguers and I personally will benefit now that McLouth can go back to leading off, where he hits best.

But I'm torn, without a doubt, as we the Pirates fans have to suffer through another power drought year, which I've hated. Back when we had Nady, Bay & McLouth all at once was the best years of this team power-wise in the last decade.

Too bad management is too stupid too realize that the funnest years for this team were the Lumber Company, whether we won or not. It aint just chicks that dig homeruns, we all love homeruns.

Even in the Kiner years people bought tickets just to see him. I personally went in the 70's just to see Stargell, Oliver, Parker, Hebner, Zisk, and Robertson. I couldnt care less about the wins, I wanted to see homeruns and I got them.

I was at John Candelaria's no-hitter, and I was bummed out because nobody hit any homeruns. I was more excited several weeks later when I got to see Stargell hit 2 homeruns in a game.

LOL...PoH...okay, that made me chuckle just a little.  He didn't need any help being adoptable though.

Couldn't they have thrown Glavine in, since they were ditching him anyway?  

What to like from this trade:

McCutch comes up, Tabata to AAA, Hernandez to AA. Back fill the talent and keep it coming through the system.

Near MLB ready pitcher a plus.  Will see Morton in Pgh in 2009.

Good potential in Locke.  

What I do not like:

We lose a classy player in Nate.

Loss of power on an already power starved team.

Probably ends any pretense of having a winning year in 2009, though few expected that anyway.  IMO it does improve the club for 2010 and onward.

Pgh Fan In NH,

Tabata has been on the AA DL since May 1st.

Before that he was hitting .250 with 0 HR's and 6 RBI's for the season.

He'll have to get off the DL and show he can hit AA pitching before they send him to AAA.

NuHo...re blowing the team up. Yes...you can blow up a team with the 3rd lowest payroll...and it's going to happen here. It's just a question of who (us, Marlins or Padres) does the best job of dumping salaries in July.

To all...especially Pirates management...

Where the h-e-double hockey sticks is all this pitching depth that is being referred to?  

Indianapolis...13th of 14 in team ERA

Altoona...9th of 12 in team ERA

Lynchburg...leading the league in ERA (gotta be one outlier)

West Virginia...dead last in ERA.

Locke...assuming his numbers don't change...will actually drag Lynchburg out of the lead.

Morton...might help at Indy a little...but we don't have any sure fire candidates there anyway.

A little more detail on Jose Tabata ...

Jose Tabata– CF – Altoona (part of X.Nady trade) on DL since 4/29

0 HR 6 RBI  .250  **  17 Games 64 ABs,  9 R, 16 H, 4K, 6 BB, 3 SB  **   1 Error **    .297 SLG   .324  OBP

Does anyone know, off hand what the major league record for least HR's in a season is? ( non dead ball edition)

At least it could make those 80 or 90 losses to come easier to take if we are cahsing a record!

this is a good trade.  this trade is more about how bankrupt our minor leagues are.  good job NH.  by the time the PBC is ready to contend seriously Nate would be too expensive

Perhaps Baltimore will call Neal with another 'offer we can't refuse' and offer Caesar Izturis for Freddy Sanchez.  

Or maybe Arizona will call Neal with another "offer we can't refuse' Abe Nunez and a elbow problem low A pitcher for Doumit.

I can't wait to see what we get for Grabow and LaRoche

right now Karstens and Ohlendorf are worth more than Nady anyway.  We can afford to wait on Tabata

I am shocked this happen at this time of year.  I thought maybe later in July.

I think this goes to show how weak the farm system is when it comes to pitching.  And they probably aren't too thrilled with some of the major league pitchers either.

Hernandez is interesting. Of course he may be part of future deals later in the year.  (no soup for me)

I think Nate is a good player.  But I'm not so sure I would trade a top power hitting prospect for him.

I will bet tomorrows day game will be one of the most watched of the year if FSN carries it

Does McCutchen move into the starting line-up or do they go Moss-Morgan-Monroe to start?

I don't know if anyone else wants to take a crack at this, but here goes:

Pirates 2011 (wild guess)

C   Doumit

1B Alvarez

2B S. Ford?

3B LaRoche

SS B. Friday?

LF McCutchen

CF G. Hernandez

RF Tabata

SP Maholm

SP Duke

SP Ohlendorf (maybe Aaron Crow or whoever is drafted)

SP Morton

SP Lincoln

RP Capps

RP who knows

Considering how young some of those hitters will still be in 2011, I don't see that lineup doing much.  McLouth will still be in his prime.  

I would rather have seen him traded straight up for one of the Braves' great prospects than for the 3 pretty good to decent ones.  The Braves have 4 or 5 great prospects.  

I understand that they want to keep Tommy Hanson.  But, I would think Heyward or Freeman or even Schaefer have more upside than Hernandez (or maybe for Medlen and a hitter).  Morton and Hernandez were in the second tier for them and completely blocked.  I would have been for it if they got a really great prospect, but they didn't.

He was Nate McClouth of the Clan McClouth... there can be only none.

Think about this... he was probably the best overall hitter on a very bad club.  If you want quality back, you have to be willing to part with it on your end.  McCutcheon is ready, and he is coming.  I think we only now are seeing just how truly bare our minor league cupboard really was.   If you are going to compete as a small-market team, you have to build from within.  I think this trade goes a little ways to addressing that.

Hey, everyone was clamoring for Andrew McCutchen to get up here and play.   Let the A. McCutchen era begin!!

macs...right now, it's not supposed to be on FSN.

If Morton is to go to AAA, the Pirates' website needs to be corrected...they have him on the 25-man roster.  

HEY ... don't we usually wail until September to dismantle our team?   Who will we have left to trade to the Yankees and Red Sox??  Oh wait .... we still have Wilson and Sanchez :)

it takes neither intelligence nor insight to be cynical.  i choose to believe that management made this trade with honorable intentions, and hope for the best from our talent evaluators.

it will take forever - if at all - to improve this team solely through the amateur draft.  even in the best of systems, very few draftees ever make it to the majors.

the pirates must trade proven talent in an attempt to obtain multiple pieces of the puzzle until the overall talent pool in the system improves.  we continue to be way short of having the luxury of focusing on a single position at the major league level when making a trade.

i'll wait more than ten minutes before evaluating this one, and in the meantime, look forward to seeing whether cutch appears to be the real deal.  if so, i don't see that we've lost much of anything, and hope that we've taken another step in putting together a good organization.

Well  well well,

An interesting turn of events today, it seems like the main reason everybody hates this deal is that it was McLouth not Morgan who was traded.

As I pick myself up from being blasted today over saying that essentially Morgan is an upgrade over JBay, I am going to predict that this fan base now will collectively throw their support to LaRoche the younger, and all the posters, both postitive pollies and negative nellies, will eventually succumb to the reality that...(place own opinion here).

Folks, whatever your opinion of anything, please remember that all you do and say,whether here or on the street, do not I repeat do not ever come clean that you are a Pirate fan. Some people will go to any lengths to make fun of you for having an outside the box mentatlity. Trade anybody but just make sure that you get  who we want and if you don't we will crucify you on the internet. And if by chance that the deal works out you can always fall back on the fact the the ownership will eventually dump the salary just to prove they are in charge, and you say I am full of baloney???

All facts will be skewed to present the best possible light on my own reality and if ti doesn't mesh with that then you are absolutely wrong

McLouth had 13 career minor league HRs in 991 plate  appearances.  McCutchen has 41 in 1757 plate appearances.  McLouth averaged a HR per 76 plate appearances.  McCutchen averaged a HR per 43 plate appearances.  Nate was 22 when he went to the minor leagues.  Andrew just turned 23.

Nate will swing for fences batting 3rd, and hit around .270 and get about 25 HRs per year.  That is not the 3-hole hitter on a winning team.  McCutchen isn't a 3-hole hitter, likely either, but he'll hit better than McLouth.  

I think the Pirates are modeling their team after the 1990 Cardinals!

Hasn't it been made clear to us all that there is no hope of near-term success for the Pirates?  Assuming they are 4-5 years away from having a consistently successful team built on a continuous pipeline of young, cheap talent under the Pirates' financial control, the 'core' that they have at the moment will all be past their prime.  Signing guys like McLouth, Doumit, and Maholm to semi-long term deals makes them eminently more marketable as trade bait.  I don't know that they will get it all done this year, but I would look for them to get rid of Maholm, Adam LaRoche and Freddy Sanchez in trades this year since they have value, and drop Jack Wilson after the season due to his high cost.  I don't think it's bad to run extremely lean for a few years if they have a decent farm system ready to bear fruit.  Since they don't, I think stripping the team at this point is very risky since they could be losing a lot of fans with the dumping with no guarantee of future success based on these trades.

That said, McCutchen is going to be good, Morgan is fine, thus McLouth was expendable, stats or no stats.

I am most worried about JAL, He may be in shock with all theGRAY MEN here  do us all a favor and get an AVATAR it's easy to do just click on your name and follow the instructions.

Once again, just as a seedling started to take root, MANAGEMENT RIPS IT OUT AND HACKS IT TO PIECES!

YOU DON'T TRADE YOUR CORE! You build on it.

And those of you claiming Nate had already peaked -oh stop the stupidity, already. Atlanta, which knows a thing or two about putting a ball club together, clearly disagrees.

I STILL am not over the fact we gave away to Boston the best player in the American League. Oh, and by the way, just heard Neal interviewed on MLB Channel. He spoke of our future outfield and did NOT include Moss's name. I'd figured all those games Moss hadn't been starting meant as much. Esentially, we got Andy LaRoche and Boston got the best player in the AL.

Boy, have we been betrayed today by Neal Huntington...

DMAC yeah i see my mlb feed is coming from NY.

I will give plenty of input during the game

JL,

I've been saying for over a year now that this owner and FO has no intention on building a core.

The are focused solely on building a profit.

Period.

ok indy's fanatsy lineup for the next game

batting first LF Nyjer Morgan

and in CF Andrew McCutchen

3b Andy Laroche

Cleanup RF Eric Hinske

1B Adam LaRoche

2B Freddy Sanchez

C Jason Jaramillo

SS Jack Wilson

P Ollie

it has taken me a while to get up off the floor, and then to stop scratching my nails in the wall....but it is all clear. it is a stregery:

lf: 405ft

cf: 425

rf: 415

all fly ball pitchers

pitcher+catcher+7of

totally out of the box. totally inside the fences.

pre-ruthian pure baseball clarity

and an outfield of delwyn, gorkys and nyjer- priceless,

if for nothing than the names.

in all seriousness, godspeed to nate, here's hoping for a bay-like resurrection from the bottom of the mon. a fine young man who exceeded all our expectations but not his own. a gentleperson, nose to the grind player, ready everyday. I'll miss him. I don't want to marry him, but I'll miss him.

winners:

nyjmo

clutch

2011 pirates

losers:

2009 pirates

have bags packed:

duke and maholm.

MAYBE WE'RE CLEARING THE WAY FOR BONDS TO COME BACK !!!

I didn't plan to log in today (last very busy day for awhile) until this news, which shocked me all the way to my computer at this late time.

First of all, I'm very sorry to lose Nate.  He was a good player, a good guy, and a very welcome member of the team, as far as I could determine.  I will always wish him well.

Second, I am speechless and at a loss as to the value of the trade.  I need to know more and only time will bring that.  I hope the players who came to Pittsburgh will prove their worth.  I still worry that this management team may not value talent well.  

Maybe this trade will be a good one, but I would have taken my chances with Nate.  It may also be true that I'm just not cut out to be a baseball GM who has to make trades.

I'm not holding this against McCutchen, though.  Good luck to him - I'm looking forward to watching him play.  

Well now.

I've been holding my water...reading posts and thinking about this.  Now that I've had a chance to absorb it, here are my thoughts:

- I like McLouth and wish him well.  Would have liked to see him succeed with PBC over long term.  But that's just a fan talking.

- I agree with those who said during ST that McLouth was at the top of his value, coming off a gold glove year he'll probably never replicate, and a breakout offensive year that will be tough to replicate.  That DOESNT mean i think he's overrated, just that he's near his ceiling.

- With that in mind, from a baseball (not fan) perspective, I think it is NOT a foolish move to sell high when a player is at the top of their value, rather than low when not playing well or end of their contract.

THEREFORE - i dont mind the CONCEPT of trading McLouth.  It comes down to execution...how well did PBC do in getting a good return.  on this important question, unfortunately I HAVE NO IDEA.

I'm not happy.  I'm not angry.  I'm just in some sort of a dull, lifeless, purgatory waiting...waiting...waiting...

JL, Jason Bay may not be the best player on the Red Sox.  And I don't think he is better than A-Rod, Texiera, or Longoria.

And Atlanta sure did give up an awful lot to the Rangers for Texeria.

I actually thought that when the Bucs signed Nate to this long term deal that it was too much money in the later years.

Well i was sitting in the movie theater felt my phone vibrate look down and what do I see, for the second year in a row we trade our best player away! Obviously it is much much too early to grade this, but if Hanson was there for the taking and the Pirates did not get him I'll be extremely upset. Now believe me i an EXTREMELY happy that McCutchen is finally getting called up, but this is not the way I wanted to see it happen. I had been dreaming since last August of an outfield of McLouth, McCutchen, and Tabata, now that will never happen. Nate will always be a favorite of mine a player who worked his butt off and proved that no matter what hard work can accomplish great things. Nate you will be missed dearly. And McCutchen welcome!

I really like this trade!!!

here is my major point.  You have Tabata who is FAR better that Gorkys will be.  You trade McClouth, who you have locked up for 6 years, and a cornerstone of the franchise, for a player who projects, yes, projects, to be him.  You just lost about $10 million minimum in attendance.    People renewed their season tickets bc of Nate.   The Braves weren't dealing Hanson.  I get that.  However, these GMs over-rate their prospects of who they won't trade away.  

Now, if they traded Jordan Schafer (who just was sent down this morning, hmmmm) and the other two, I'd be tickled pink.  By my eyes tell me that Gorkys is a nice player, but the Blue Jays are still awaiting Rios and Wells to be

Maybe I can apply for Bailout aid and buy the Pirates.  

WOW!! I am shocked.  I am not usually on here at night, but since I have no one else to talk to about this, this was the best place to come.  I am kicking myself badly for not getting his autograph at Bowling with the Bucs on sunday night.   GRRRR.   OMG.   This is crazy.  And the Pirates wanted to know why my dad and I cancelled our season tickets.  Well its for dumb sh** like this.  I am completely shocked.  I still love my Buccos, but it will be very hard now to win some games until Ryan gets back, and even then it will still be hard.  WOW.  I still can't get over this.  Holy crap.

Jason Bay is a very solid player in a great lineup.  We got two starters now in that trade, and two potential pitchers.  Bay trade was good too.

And, we had power last year and a losing record.  We have no power this year, but better pitching and better defense and our record is no worse.

Hmmmmm?

I really like NH and the job he is doing.  Smart man.

NuHo,

I'll only make one addition to your line of reasoning: Neal thinks he can keep punting and fake us fans out.

Screw Neal Huntington. And screw Frank Coonelly if he retains Neal Huntington after we tank this season. Even if we don't tank, it'll be in spite of -not because, Neal keeps punting on the present and ripping out the core.

And, yes, screw Bob Nutting. The buck stops with him (no pun intended. There's nothing funny about any of this.)

I'll still hang out here on the Blog, where I have lots of friends. But, and I speak only for myself, I'm going to boycott the Pirates. Can't afford to keep having my heart ripped out like this. My son and daughter are asking me to explain, asking "WHY?"

From Dave OBrien at the ALJ:  "The Braves paid a big price" ... trading away Morton and Hernandez, "one of baseballs top 100 prospects" ...

www.ajc.com/.../braves_trade_mclouth.html

I am starting to think "boruboru27" is, in fact, Neal Huntingdon himself.  So tell me 'neal-boru', how exactly does getting a single A pitcher who's getting lit up, Nyjer-lite potential outfielder (in 3 years) and well, if we're lucky, Jeff Karstens 2.0 blow you away for a Gold Glove CF who's leading all NL CFs in RBIs on a team that is beyond offensively challenged??!!

Alright -that's my angry vent

Man, it's like fireworks night at PNC ... where do all these new posters come from? Welcome one and all, but I'm just curious ... are most of you the ones who have said we're not investing ourselves emotionally in the Pirates until some changes are made?

I wanted to cry when I saw Nate's leaving ... but I realize it's business, and the FO guys have a job to do to rebuild this franchise. Call me a fool, but I still think we can ger 'er done to play some competitive ball this year.

JL,

I am a firm believer that every dog has his day.

Some day Nutting, Coonelly, and Huntington will get theirs.

The Jason Bay trade was crap. Andy, Brandon, and Craig CANNOT even hold Jason's jock strap. And just watch -Nate hasn't hit his prime either. Those of you who think the Pirates have made smart trades with  Boston Red Sox or Atlanta Braves, need to go read up and see just how Boston and Atlanta have been doing, the last decade and a half. We've just been played for being the big boys farm team, again.

please tell me why everyone on this board thinks we just traded mickey mantle???  the guy is a .260 career hitter... was he a solid player, YES, is he a star or a cornerstone of a francihse IN NO WAY...  what did u guys want tommy hanson for him or a top prospect???  NEVER HAPPEN...  all of you yinzers that dont understand baseball will say pirates are cheap, im not going to anymore games, etc., etc.  stay home... dont go...  quit complaining because it gets old... all of you said that the nady deal was horrific and guess what i think it turned out pretty good so far and its still early on that one... my advice to all of you is to stay home, stay away from the message boards, and go to an occassional bobble head or fireworks night cause that the only way that 90% of u on here attend anyway... worry about the steeler training camp, pens, etc... u guys have plenty to root for...

Still in Disbelief wrote -

I think the Pirates are modeling their team after the 1990 Cardinals! -

--------------------------------------------

I'll go you one better - I think the Pirates are modeling their team after the 1969 Seattle Pilots.

According to DK's story above:

'Hanson, 22, was ranked the No. 4 prospect in all of Major League Baseball by Baseball America entering this season.'

Did anyone expect the Braves to even trade Hanson for McClouth straight up?

The irony here, that for those stating this is a salary dump, the Pirates probably lost more than what Nate was going to be paid in sponsorship, jerseys, potential ad revenue if the Pirates were going to be 83-79.  Some of us think progressively.  

I came on here last summer and defended both of those deadline trade repeatedly, and I still think the verdict is out on those.  But this I don't get.  You trade away a building block for 3 maybes??  None of whom is likely to make an impact for 2 years?  That's it -I have purchased the last ticket for a game there this year.  If the PBC wants to just write off this season as practice time, and next year too, fine -entertain the skyblast idiots who show up 4 times a year with this nonsense.  I don't think trading Mclouth was a bad idea, but you HAVE to get more than this for him.  Why does it seems like the other teams top prospects are always "off limits" to NH.  It's like his mom saying, No chococlate chip cookies for you nealy - have an oatmeal one instead, it's better for you.

And please - nobody out there give me "this is the tony pena trade" nonsense.  This is more likely to be the Jason Schmidt trade, only we'll have to wait 3 years before we see this OF 'prospect' blow out his knee and never play ball again.