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Post-Gazette beat writers Dejan Kovacevic and Chuck Finder blog about the Pittsburgh Baseball Club.

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Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?

By Dejan Kovacevic | 8 a.m. Thursday

Click here to submit a question.

We have Qs here from the home office before taking off tomorrow for a week in the Windy City ...

__________

Q: Hi, Dejan. How much is the Pirates' "inside track" on Miguel Angel Sano worth if someone outbids the Pirates by $25,000, $50,000, $100,000 more? Or is this completely unknown?

Paul Neuhaus of Santa Clara, Calif.

KOVACEVIC: It obviously is an unknown now, Paul, as the July 2 signing deadline is quite a ways off.

The "inside track" to which I referred was not intended to suggest the Pirates would get a discount. It is that they were given unusual access to the player -- not all teams were -- and they have established a relationship with the player, his family and, maybe most important, his respected agent, Rob Plummer. That is the sort of thing that leads to honest, upfront negotiations.

__________

Q: Dejan, you've written about the need for teams -- the PBC, in this instance -- to be willing to sign Dominican talent as a type of cache when approaching future Dominican talent. If that was the case, the PBC could then say, "Hey, we signed so-and-so for such-and-such amount, so here's our deal for you."

With that in mind, do you get the sense that just being in the running to sign Miguel Angel Sano will be enough for the PBC to be included in future talks with other blue-chip prospects from the island?

If the PBC comes up just a little short in the bidding process, will that have a positive effect for singing future prospects?

Wishful thinking, to be sure, but definitely a sign that the PBC is moving in a positive direction; or, at least a direction never seen before by the fans.

Paul Najjar of Louisville, Ky.

KOVACEVIC: At some point, the Pirates have to step up. Being in the running for Sano will not open any more doors than their being in the running for the Cuban player, Dayan Viciedo, who wound up signing with the White Sox this offseason.

The bottom line is the bottom line, and the Pirates never have spent more than $400,000 on any Latin American amateur. So long as those who groom and represent talent in the Dominican are aware of this -- and they most certainly are -- the Pirates are not going to get special showings of talent the way they have for Sano. And the only reason they got the one with Sano was because of Rene Gayo's connections to the player and agent, not always a possibility.

__________

Q: What is Neal Huntington up to with the recent wave of minor league acquisitions? Organizational depth or diamonds in the rough?

Dave Courtney of Nashville, Tenn.

KOVACEVIC: One thing Huntington repeats regularly is his desire to hunt for pitching, all the time and everywhere. He has acknowledged, including just recently, that the pitching is not close to satisfactory throughout the system, and the acquisitions of Eric Hacker and Steven Jackson from the Yankees are clear signs of that dissatisfaction: Two pitchers were added to the 40-man, two removed.

Some of it, as Huntington freely admits, is throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what sticks. But that is almost the accepted recipe for bullpen-building in baseball these days, and both of these pitchers can throw in relief.

Funny thing about Jackson: When I mentioned to Jeff Karstens the other day that the Pirates had gotten Hacker, he quickly came back: "The guy they should get is Jackson. That would really be something."

Happened the next day.

__________

Q: Dejan, great work, as always. Just finish reading the chat. Someone asked who will play first when Adam LaRoche is traded. Your answer was Steve Pearce, which I'm sure will be true but nonetheless pains me. My question: Is there any chance Delwyn Young ends up playing first? Clearly, the guy can hit.

Isn't Pearce, like, 35 now, anyway?

Jason R. Clare of Union High School

KOVACEVIC: No, Pearce is actually 26, and he is batting .277 with six home runs and 27 RBIs in 37 games for Indianapolis. He has 19 walks to 19 strikeouts, and he has made two errors at first base.

Not bad after a terrible opening three weeks. And there remains, within reason, cause to consider him a prospect, though that clock is ticking.

Young has not played first base, but people generally can learn the position without much issue.

Does Young have a brighter future than Pearce?

Who can see that right now?

__________

Q: Just curious: I haven't heard if the Delwyn Young deal has been completed. I think originally it was announced that the Pirates would give up two players or cash. Now I am wondering if, the better Delwyn plays, the Pirates will give up better players than those determined at the time of the trade? Or are the Dodgers just given a pool they choose from? How does it work?

John Taylor of Fairmont, W.Va.

KOVACEVIC: Player-to-be-named-later trades do not have to be competed for six months, and this one is not complete. When it is, in all likelihood, it will be -- as most of them are -- cause for me to write two sentences at the end of the daily notebook.

They very rarely amount to anything significant.

In this case, yes, the Dodgers have a list of who they cannot take. That list, I am told, runs quite deep. Like, really deep. Like, they-might-just-take-the-cash deep.

And no, it cannot be modified.

__________

Q: Dejan, this is just a follow to my recent question about the Pirates pulling their starters too early: They lost last Friday to the Rockies after pulling Paul Maholm again. Tyler Yates originally blew the save but the botched call on the tag from third saved him. Matt Capps, then, officially blew the game.

It's so obvious the Pirates' starters are their best pitchers. Why not let them stay in the game?

Jonathan McKenna of Hampton

KOVACEVIC: Before I answer, a Q from the opposite perspective ...

__________

Q: Hey, Dejan, I know it's early in the season but, looking at the National League's top ten ERAs, Zach Duke has pitched more innings than all but one. Is this due to John Russell trying not to use the bullpen as much, or is he keeping Duke out there due to his performance?

It is concerning to me that Duke may be shut down early, pitching so deep in the games.

Kyle Love of Squirrel Hill

KOVACEVIC: Rare are the issues that split baseball fans right down the middle, but pitch counts seem to be one of them, based solely on the feedback I get here.

For everyone fuming about Ian Snell's 131-pitch game, there is someone fuming that Maholm or whoever comes out too early and wonders why the Pirates are babying these guys' arms.

I have been over my view of pitch counts countless times -- I have seen mountains of evidence to support their importance -- so there is nothing for me to add there. But I will say this: Part of the reason this topic has arisen over the past few weeks is that John Russell and Joe Kerrigan have, indeed, been inconsistent. Ross Ohlendorf, for example, has yet to top 100 pitches, and this is a big guy who should be able to handle a horse-type load. Duke throws more than 100 just about every time out.

If the bullpen is a factor, it should not be. This season probably should mean little more to the Pirates than whatever gains can be made individually and, to a lesser extent, as a group. That means making the starters better, primarily.

By the way, to support your initial point, Kyle, Duke currently ranks 10th with his 2.84 ERA and has pitched 57 innings, most of anyone in that group and second only to the Padres' Jake Peavy, at 61 1/3.

__________

Q: There has been a lot of Brandon Moss bashing this season. But, after the off-season knee surgery he had, he wasn't expected to be ready by opening day. Yet, he still was running out there daily once the season started. 

Has there been any indication that he may not have been fully healthy over the early part of 2009?

Phil Salvatori of Wheeling, W.Va.

KOVACEVIC: No, no one, including Moss, ever mentioned an issue with the knee or the thumb injury that cost him two weeks of spring training.

That said, his spring got off to a slow start because of the knee, and the thumb threw him out of whack just when he started swinging well down there, so that part of it might have come into play. Moss has a long swing, with a lot of moving parts, kind of like Adam LaRoche in that sense. And it takes some serious timing to get all of that going the way it is right now.

Simple guide to seeing whether or not Moss is on: Watch for balls driven to left-center. That is his power alley.

__________

Q: If Adam LaRoche is traded in the next couple months, is there any chance Ryan Doumit will move to first base upon his return?  Especially with the pleasant surprises of Jason Jaramillo and Robinzon Diaz.

Vince Waggle of East Liverpool, OH

KOVACEVIC: No, there are no indications of a positional switch for Doumit. John Russell loves having him back there and cannot make that any more transparent than he does.

I know there are some in baseball who feel that a team's biggest bat should not be a catcher because of all the time that must be missed, the wear and tear, the injuries, the concentration on the pitchers, but I also know that there are some who view it as a premium for a lineup to have that switch-hitting power hitter back there rather than wasting the lineup spot on a glove-only type.

Joe Mauer seems to be doing just fine with the latter concept.

__________

Q: "A bing, a bang and a bleeder ... " Great line.  I really enjoy reading your articles each morning when I get to work and log in.

I wrote a couple of weeks ago that I don't see any of the Pirates' starters as a No. 1. I know, it's a restatement of the obvious. In any event, if the Pirates expect to contend in 2010 or 2011, seems to me they will have to sign at least one veteran free-agent bopper for offense, and a true ace for the staff. The only other way to do it is via trade for someone already in the majors and on the cusp of breaking out (see the Pirates' acquisition of Jason Schmidt).

Is there anyone on the current roster who could pry such a pitcher away?

David Potters of Charleston, West Virginia

KOVACEVIC: On the 40-man, sure, but it would be the type of names I should not even place on the screen here.

The genre of trade you describe, David, is pretty much dying. Huntington has told me often about the increasing difficulty of getting teams to even discuss pitchers who are major league ready or, as you put it, "on the cusp." Those are prized commodities, no matter the teams' payrolls, because pitching is at such a premium.

And that, by the way, might make it seem even more surprising that the Pirates were able to get three such pitchers from the Yankees in the Xavier Nady trade. Never mind how the trade turns out in the long term. On that aspect alone, it is striking.

__________

Q: Any reason why Lynchburg is doing so much better than West Virginia?

My assumption was that they were both short on talent from the Dave Littlefield era. I would have thought we would see improvement in West Virginia first.

Jon Osborn of Wilmington, Del.

KOVACEVIC: Thanks for the easy opportunity to plug, Jon: That will be raised in this Sunday's On the Pirates feature, conveniently available for just a few quarters at all respectable local outlets.


Posted May 21 2009, 08:00 AM by Dejan Kovacevic

Comments

jersey joe wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 8:24 AM

JAL wrote re: Morning links: In the land of Hugo

on Thu, May 21 2009 12:50 PM

JJ

Not sure what you are asking about--DK always has a link to the box score in his links

The box score tells a lot the score book shows it all.  Just something every little league team uses would be fine.  Box score limits the game knowledge to game totals whereas the score book would allow us to view each play inning by inning as the game progressed.

jersey joe wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 8:37 AM

I reference the questions and answer about moving Ryan,... and their in lies the problem: This is an even split.

Wonder how much baseball they played in old Roma with sayings like:

What am I to do?

jersey joe wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 8:56 AM

HERE YEE HERE YEE

                      ANNOUNCING

The PIRATA 13 engagement celebration gathering

                         MAY 31

            please post RSVP or email                                          

           tjfran@comcast.net

Time will be 11:00Am  location  Bella Notte on penn ave. in the strip

This leaves plenty of time to be there and be at the game

Wabbit_Season wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 9:01 AM

RE-posted from last thread post ants marching...

Hi all.

Just posted my first memorial day story over on the other stuff thread as per Baywatch's suggestion.  A nice way to keep the holiday.  I have a few other "War Stories" to tell and I look forward to your remembrances and thoughts on the topic.

I also want to share with you a friend of mine's story from Venezuela in 1992 and I'd like to share with you, in that thread, one of the most haunting stories by the famed author, Kurt Vonnegut, himself a survivor of the Dresden Firebombing.  Also, a contemporary story of a soldier who struggles every day with a changed world since returning home with debilitating injuries.  

You know.  We really need to keep care of those guys who come back.

Much love to all.

Wabbit.

JAL wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 9:01 AM
JAL wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 9:21 AM

JJ

Something like this?

scores.espn.go.com/.../playbyplay

irate fan wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 9:26 AM

Has anyone noticed that nobody is complaining about losing out on Cabrera? I seem to remember some FO bashing going on when he signed with the Nats.

jersey joe wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 9:30 AM

JAL wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?

on Thu, May 21 2009 2:21 PM

JJ

Something like this?

scores.espn.go.com/.../playbyplay

                       BINGO

RumBunter wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 9:59 AM

Saw this on a Yankees blog and just had to add it, many of their fans were trying to determine why Steven Jackson was DFA'd when other options were available.

is he a prospect or not at 27???

As I said before, he is a marginal prospect.  We have DFA'ed others and still got to keep them.  Not sure why we wouldn't have the same success with Jackson.  I hope we can keep him, he is a gamer.

I wish they would just get rid of Marte. Garcia or Nady to the 60 day DL makes sense.

JAL wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 10:18 AM

Rum

I do not consider anyone a prospect by 27.  By 27 a player is in what should be his prime years and should producing at the MLB level.  27 year old players can be useful cogs on a team but rarely will become stars.

JAL wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 10:18 AM

Irate

sometimes the best moves are those you do not make.

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 10:29 AM

I guess I don't understand how the play by play detail or "scorecard" will spur any additional conversation?

What is to be said?

"Boy that flyout to firstbase Monroe hit in the top half of the first inning was hit really, really high"?

Or

"That groundout to shortstop Kearns hit in the home half of the 3rd inning was sharply hit"?

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 10:29 AM

JAL,

"sometimes the best moves are those you do not make"

Garth Brooks sang a great song about that called "Unanswered Prayers".

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 10:31 AM

JAL & Bumrunner,

I agree with JAL that 27 year olds are no longer "prespects". They may some day offer minor contributions to a club, but rarely will be star players.

Q wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 10:48 AM

How much do the Nats of this year remind you folks of the Bucs from early last year?  Their pitching has been horrendous even though I know they kept us to only two runs yesterday.  Their defense is terrible - just like the Bucs in early part of last year.  Well... let's get 'em while they're down - get the sweep tonight!

Menkrick wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 10:51 AM

Anyone going to the game tonight?

JAL wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 10:51 AM

Hostage

Some things do not have to spur conversation they can just be info for someone.  DK posts a link to the box score every morning and that doesn't spur conversation.

JAL wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 10:57 AM

Q

I think the Nats are a step below the Bucs of last season, at least in the first half of the season.  Th pen is much worse than the Bucs pen was.  Hitting wise the teams are close.  Starting pitching is close.  Nats defense is worse.

Q wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 10:59 AM

@Hostage

Very clever how you slipped that name on your prior post - I'm sure it was all an accident - ha!

Q wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 11:03 AM

@JAL

I agree that they are worse.  One good thing is that they have their star inked to a long term deal - Ryan Z.  He looks to be a solid 3B for them.  

I know some people posted before that we should have spent the money on Adam Dunn - count me in as someone that is grateful that we didn't go after him.  You can show me all kind of stats with his power and walks, but I feel the K's and the defense just doesn't make him worth the investment.  

Flip Diggity wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 11:05 AM

The Pirates won 2-1 last night, right?

PG Online Headline reads "3-2"

JAL wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 11:21 AM

Flip

yep--it was 2-1

macsinthebox wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 11:21 AM

Chuck, while we are on the Q&A thread i have a question assuming your the beat guy for the day. I have noticed Diaz almost always keeps his front foot open when hitting thus robbing him of power needed to drive the baseball.

     I realize a lot of hitters open their front foot to get a better look at the pitcher, but they always seem to close it when swinging. Could you ask Don Long or JR if they notice this and if so is this sound thinking.

                                   Thanks

JHadar wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 11:24 AM

Morning all -- fixin' to rain on the prairie today, 64 and a strong north wind and cloudin' up to beat the band.

It was an ugly win last night, lots of wasted offense, but it counts.  Seems like when Paul pitches we can't score any runs for him.  

NH -- Just can't resist asking, are you still predicting a 2-2 split with the Nats?

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 11:34 AM

JAL,

JJ used the point of spurring additional conversation as his justification for the request.

"I think the scorebook for all to see the next day would raise the conversation level even more for us using it as a reference sheet."

Personally, I don't give a rats patoo if someone posts play-by-play detail or not, I just don't see it raising the conversation level.

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 11:40 AM

Hadar,

I don't know how math works out there on the prairie, but given that the Bucs have already won 3 of the 4 games in the series, a 2-2 split is impossible using the "old" math we still use here in PA.

That said, in case you are interested, here is an update on the Hadar 33.3% Wins Improvement Watch.

2009 - After 40 games - 19 wins - 21 losses

2008 - After 40 games - 19 wins 0 21 losses

The current Hadar Wins Improvement Percentage is 0% vs. the Hadar 33.3% Objective.

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 11:41 AM

Hadar,

I forgot to mention, I will still stick with the 4-6 prediction for the road trip though. - I think Chicago will be tough.

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 11:42 AM

Q,

No, it wasn't by accident.

What's your point?

macsinthebox wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 11:45 AM

So NH it's safe to say your giving the PBP recap the big" BABA BOOEY "

leadoff wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 11:58 AM

Hostage

I think Chicago will be tough

I think also Chicago will be tough, I believe the Nats hurt the Bucs a lot more than the scoreboard will show, will an overworked bullpen going into Chicago hurt the Bucs, I believe so.

The Cubs are simply a better team than the Bucs right now, if we get one out of there I will be happy.

As far as the White Sox are concerned, the Bucs have not done well in American League cities because the Bucs normally have a bench player hitting in the pitcher's spot, the American League teams have a specialist hitting in the pitchers spot, so I would not be surprised if we only get one from the White Sox.

Bizrow wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:08 PM

Are we all playing nice today??

So what are the odds that Mr Moss will be picking splinters out of his rear tonight?

A question about Ad La, if we keep him for the whole year, what are the odds that he would be an A or B type player, where we could get a draft choice if he signs elsewhere, but I guess we'd have to offer him arbitration.

Secondly, lets say Ad La ends up a type A or B, do you think clubs would give up a first or second rounder for him?

DK has noted that young pitchers/good prospects are like gold nowadays, I would think that would start affecting draft choices as well.

juan pizarro wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:09 PM

irate - I mentioned the same thing about Cabrera yesterday. I , for one, was dissapointed in the FO not signing him. Glad I was wrong.

JL - re: earlier post on JBay. He is having  a good year. If it keeps up how sorry will the Sox be that they did sign him during ST? And no doubt he is getting more recognition in Boston, and has a better ballpark for RH hitters (Fenway vs PNC), but Boston is also much more of a pressure cooker than Pitt and he has handled that well, so he's done very well. I hope he keeps it up, and at the end of the day the guys we got back in return also pan out as well, so that the trade works well for both sides. so far, so good.

JHadar wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:12 PM

NH << The current Hadar Wins Improvement Percentage is 0% vs. the Hadar 33.3% Objective.  >>

Disclaimer -- NH continues to run this stat "all in good fun" but using my good name to promote a stat that I offered "all in good fun" to show to show a fatal flaw in his reasoning (why he has never won a debate, he pulls stuff like this) in an eralier and unrelated discussion.  

He is now promoting this stat as if I was serous about it and over my objections.  I have repeatedly said that this team might just do about anything this year and have made no predictions about W-L other than the very qualified 81-80.  

There is no Hadar Wins Improvement Stat, and there is no Hadar 33.3% "objective."  

I enjoy the banter but I do not enjoy having my words and statements twisted.    

Q wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:15 PM

NuHo - just funny... got a little chuckle out of it when I read it a second time.  

I'm optimistic that we can have a 3-3 trip to ChiTown, but also wouldn't be suprised if we were to leave there 0-6 with our recent history with the Cubs and our lack of success in away interleague games.

msb21 wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:15 PM

Any idea on who will be filling the DH spot against the White Sox?  Monroe would seem the best to me but something tells me they are going to keep it based on the opposing pitcher...

Also, I think the extra bench depth this year is going to be a big bonus when it comes to interleague play, a time where the Bucs have traditionally wet the bed.  This team is deeper than other teams past

macsinthebox wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:20 PM

Are we all playing nice today??

BIZ, the answer is yes here, that's why i will refrain from commenting on our first baseman today :| {keep my mouth shut smile}

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:26 PM

NuHo

I don't recall the exact details of the Hadar 33% discussion, so I want to stay away from that, but I will take your stat for something else:

To all those who complained that we really sold the farm last year when we had such a great core together, and trading Jason Bay has made us so much worse, and XNady, and so forth and so on....

EXACT

SAME

RECORD

through 40 games.  

I recall some on this blog suggesting that the abysmal winning percentage we had after the trade would likely keep up this season because that was how much worse we now are than we were in the first half of last year.

Instead, we're at the exact same spot after 40 games, but with more pitching (Ohlie, Karsty + DMcCutch, Morris) and a few more pieces (AnLa, Moss, Tabata, hopefully Delwyn).  Considering Bay and Nady would have been gone soon anyway, I like the flexibility we now have.  What we have now, in terms of a near-.500 team, is sustainable with the depth we're building.  

Don't get me wrong, I still think we need OODLES more pieces. Especially of the high-end type. Pedro A, sure.  Tabata and AMcCutch, too.  Hopefully Lincoln. Possibly Ford/Negrych, Calvin Anderson, and a few others. Maybe even Moskos! But we need many, many more.  Hopefully Ackley (my big hope) or Scheppers (NuHo's endorsement goes a long way with the front office...) and Sano. Those would be great pieces to add.  And don't forget, in the long-term, my boy Mpho "Gift" Ngoepe.  

But given where we were last year (which some have suggested was a mirage of competitive baseball) and where we are this year.... I'll take this year's situation every single time.  Throw in that we locked up McLouth, too.  In the last year...since 40 games in last season...I'm happy with what we've done.  

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:28 PM

Q,

Good deal. Because that was the intent. - Just to be funny.

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:30 PM

Leadoff,

Agreed on Chicago. - Two tough series for the reasons you indicated.

I guess the one thing we can hope for is that the Washington series inspired some confidence that can carryover into Chicago and maybe the Bucs can play over their heads a little in the 6 games. I think a 3-3 split would be a huge positive.

That said, realistically I can see 1-5 or 2-4 very easily.

Hope I'm wrong.

leadoff wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:32 PM

Biz

DK has noted that young pitchers/good prospects are like gold nowadays, I would think that would start affecting draft choices as well

I think you may have hit on the million dollar question, drafting a pitcher no.1 has proved to be a bust for most teams, however this years draft might be different, I think the draft itself dictates pitchers vs position players.

The fact that there are probably 3 position players at the most in the top ten with this draft makes it a given that a lot of teams are going to take a pitcher first.

So I think the answer to the question probably isn't going to be answered this year.

leadoff wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:34 PM

Hostage

I like you hope I am wrong, I would be elated if we swept the Cubs and Sox, but sometimes we have to be realists. I am sure some will say we are negative on this issue, I don't see that however, just weighing the facts.

DMac wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:36 PM

Hello, everyone!

We should always play nice, even if we disagree, dontcha think?  ;-)

And what's with the predicting losses again?  Do I need to have Nurse Cratchett hand out rose-colored glasses to everyone?  Granted, both Chicago series will be tough...but can we have a little more optimism here?  Please?

DH-er's...I'd rather seem them keep Adam at 1B defensively and use Hinske or Monroe, depending on the pitcher.  I have a sneaking suspicion that Hinske will play at least 1 game though, at 1st.  

macs...it's okay by me...I'm cool with agreeing to disagree.   :-)

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:36 PM

Hadar,

"I enjoy the banter but I do not enjoy having my words and statements twisted."

I don't either. I told you it was in good fun and I meant it. I have in no way promoted this as if you were serious that 33.3% would carryout throughout the year.

Seems to me you enjoy giving the "banter", but not particularly fond of receiving in turn.

Even though your "banter" is rarely that, usually more personal in nature.  

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:39 PM

Leadoff,

"I am sure some will say we are negative on this issue, I don't see that however, just weighing the facts."

Truer words have never been spoken. Starry eyed fans often times take great offense to the truth and perceive it as a negative.

leadoff wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:39 PM

BAB

But given where we were last year (which some have suggested was a mirage of competitive baseball) and where we are this year.... I'll take this year's situation every single time.  Throw in that we locked up McLouth, too.  In the last year...since 40 games in last season...I'm happy with what we've done.  

I agree, we are far ahead of last year in organization and on the field, considering we lost Doumit, we could be much farther ahead.

The depth issues at certain positions are an issue, because where we lack depth is where we are going to lose players to Free Agency and trades are not going to bring veterans here that are any better than what we have now.

Bizrow wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:42 PM

@leadoff

Probably didn't, well I know I didn't make my statement well enough, but seemed like more teams were more hesitant to sign type A and B ballplayers this year (except of course the Yankees) for fear of losing draft choices, so my question was if Ad La ends up as a Type A or B, do you think teams will be willing to give the draft choice up to sign him?

And I'm not picking on him, just a general comment, Byrd and I think some other players that would cost draft picks weren't signed, and I don't remember that happening before, but I don't remember what I had for lunch 20 minutes ago either....

Things could be changing, this may add some pressure to the MLB union

Pirates018 wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:44 PM

Deal is now up to Peavy to go to the White Sox.  Just in time for him to pitch against us.

pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:45 PM

BAB,

I agree that 19-21 after 40 games this year is better than I would have thought following the dump of Bay and Nady, and I suppose in some ways can be viewed as a positive.

However, after 16 consecutive losing seasons and 3 last place finishes in 4 years I have a tough time celebrating a 19-21 record. This owner has been at it now for 6 years and the ongoing lack of success is pathetic.

Just the fact that after all these years of losing a great fan like you would author a post suggesting that 19-21 is a good thing is a perfect example. We no longer even think about a winning record. Instead, we celebrate different shades of losing.

That's just sad.

macsinthebox wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:51 PM

Leadoff,

"I am sure some will say we are negative on this issue, I don't see that however, just weighing the facts."

Truer words have never been spoken. Starry eyed fans often times take great offense to the truth and perceive it as a negative.

Couldnt agree more, "I Critique because i care"

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:51 PM

Pirate18,

I hate it that baseball has become so financial in it's nature.

It stinks that a bad club like San Diego is forced into a position to trade one of the best starting pitchers in the game for 1 unproven prospect and a throw-in. - And then maybe considering paying some of Peavy's remaining contract?

That just stinks.

In the old days, money would have been a non-issue and if the Padres were to trade a guy like Peavy, they could expect to see 3 or more legitimate prospects enabling them to rebuild.

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:51 PM

leadoff

Agreed. Depth still needs addressed.  But it was so much worse before.  I like that we addressed depth at: 3B, OF, C, and SP within the last twelve months.  Some might argue SS, too, in the low minors.  But we've definitely got to keep moving in the right direction.  As ol' Satchel Paige's rules for living say: "Never look back, something might be gaining on you."

juan pizarro wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:52 PM

BAB/leadoff - I'm with you on 40 games last yr vs this year. And I think 40 games is probably a good cutoff date for "it's still too early to tell"

re: DH suggestions; I think DYoung is our best and hottest candidate. The only unfortunate thing is he is also our best PH. Maybe also see who has had good lifetime records against a particular pitcher (DYoung woukld not have any experience against an AL pitcher).

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:55 PM

NuHo

You are absolutely right about the 19-21 not being something to celebrate. I was trying to couch my post in qualifiers, but it started to get bogged down.  Let me just say now: I'm happy with where we are given where we were a year ago.  But as I just replied to leadoff, we need to keep moving in the same direction.  We were a catastrophe for so long, and our organizational depth was six degrees lower than woeful.  Now, its probably "just" below average.  LONG way to go.  We're making progress.  Is it something to celebrate? No. Its something to appreciate, I think, but you are totally correct: it is not celebration material. (Hopefully I can add...."yet.")

FormerSoxFan wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:56 PM

I guess where I would disagree, NuHo, is at what cost are you willing to go for a winning record?  I for one, don't want the PBC to win 82 games if it means sacrificing the long-term future.  I want the Bucs to get to a point where there is talent throughout the organization, and a chance to go to the playoffs and win on a yearly basis.

The difference between the Littlefield and Huntington eras are night and day.  And the damage done by Littlefield isn't going to reverse itself in a year or two.

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 12:59 PM

juan

DYoung is a good DH candidate.  Who cares if he's your best pinch hitter? Nate McLouth would be our best pinch hitter, too, if he were on the bench. You play your best 9 bats.  

NuHo/pirate18

The Peavy situation is incredible.  The guy is worth every penny of his contract in baseball's current economy. And he's one of two reasons SD fans go to the park (Adrian Gonzalez being the other).  I was watching them last night, and they had clearly moved all of the fans to the seats right behind home plate.  There were entire sections down the left and right field lines in the lower deck that were empty.  Just amazing.  Brand new park, too. (Though, frankly, its just not a great place to watch a baseball game. The park has a very contrived feeling to it, and the product on the field is...well...not good.)  

FormerSoxFan wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:03 PM

For what it's worth, Peavy's agent says Peavy strongly prefers the NL:

sports.espn.go.com/.../story

Makes sense.  But I wouldn't be surprised if it's a tactic to get the White Sox to pick up that $22M option.

leadoff wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:04 PM

Biz

Probably didn't, well I know I didn't make my statement well enough, but seemed like more teams were more hesitant to sign type A and B ballplayers this year (except of course the Yankees) for fear of losing draft choices, so my question was if Ad La ends up as a Type A or B, do you think teams will be willing to give the draft choice up to sign him?

I don't think the draft picks are the issue, I think the economic times was the main criteria for not sigining A and B players.

Drafts are still,  to some degree, crap shoots, Type A and B players are pretty much givens with the track records they have established.

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:06 PM

BAB,

That's fair.

The one concern I have is that we may not have hit bottom yet.

I worry that if the Bucs do find trade partners for players such as Adam LaRoche, Freddy Sanchez, Jack Wilson, and John Grabow, the Bucs will actually get worse before they get better.

For one thing, opposing clubs are getting more and more stingy about giving up legitimate prospects for expensive veterans.

I think too that this plan of Coonington's to rebuild is going to take much, much longer to work, if it even does, than they originally talked about.

When I look at the system today, this stuff about being competitive in 2010 or 2011 seems like nothing more than wishful thinking to me. Veterans move on, they get replaced by lesser experienced, and in some cases less talented players and the product just keeps getting watered down more and more.

By the time the McCutchen's, Tabata's, Ford's, Friday's, Alvarez's, and Lincoln's arrive and develop into productive major league players, other players like McClouth, Doumit, Maholm, Capps, Duke, Snell, will have all become too expensive for Nutting's taste and we will be having to replace them with unproven players.

Just seems like a vicious cycle to me and I don't ever see the day arriving when enough of a core is in place that Bob Nutting will spend more and he has suggested he will.

leadoff wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:06 PM

FsF

The difference between the Littlefield and Huntington eras are night and day.  And the damage done by Littlefield isn't going to reverse itself in a year or two.

Nothing could be more true.

Plenty of Hope wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:07 PM

Good day inmates!

I believe this team plays better against better teams (except Milwaukee, the goons). I predict we win three in Chicago. We took the Cubs in series last year, and we're better positioned this year.

FormerSox - I don't think I've commented on your comments before, but if you want to repeat this on the blog three times a day <<And the damage done by Littlefield isn't going to reverse itself in a year or two.>> it wouldn't be too much. Good for you - that's a message that needs to get across.

This team was above .500, went on a "schneid" for lack of a better term (and I'm just repeating words I'd heard in previous TV interviews so I don't think that's dirty but I can't be sure) and then started building back up. Jack is back. Moss found his secret to hits, Ryan is still out, and the bullpen is struggling. We are still poised for a run at October. Srsly.

I saw two young men at a recent game with the number 09 on the back of their shirt and instead of a name above it, it said "Believe." on the front is said "Buctober." I thought it was awesome - and wondered if it were maybe NuHo and PAMT????

MUA-HA-HA-HAAAAAAAAAAAA!

JHadar wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:09 PM

NH -- I do apologize if I have been too personal.

DMac wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:09 PM

I know it was in SD...but didn't we beat Peavy already this season?  Or was that the game we lost at Petco?

mazfromiowa wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:12 PM

I know this will raise JL's hackles but,yeah Bay is having a career year.Consider the hitters around him and you can see why.

Pedroia-MVP 2009(not even gonna list stats)

Ortiz-  4 time silver slugger(no stats needed)

Youkillis-  94 ABs  .404 BA  .509 OBP 1.222 OPS

Bay                           .302       .437           1.084

If he doesn't get 120-130 RBI  he's hurt.He did get 101(2 times) and 109 for us.He;s having his greatest year because of his location.(batting 5th for Boston)  ;-)

FormerSoxFan wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:12 PM

NuHo

"By the time the McCutchen's, Tabata's, Ford's, Friday's, Alvarez's, and Lincoln's arrive and develop into productive major league players, other players like McClouth, Doumit, Maholm, Capps, Duke, Snell, will have all become too expensive for Nutting's taste and we will be having to replace them with unproven players."

I'm thinking that if there's enough talent in place where the club is close to contending, the money will be made available.  

The signing of Alvarez, investment in the DR academy, interest in Sano, etc. shows me that there's a concerted effort to improve the organization at all levels.  I'm confident that if the PBC can get to a place like Tampa last year (which isn't to say we have that kind of talent yet), some money will be spent (albeit not a huge Steinbrenner-style spree).

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:14 PM

FormerSoxfan,

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the idea that the Pirates will one day become a competitive club with team payrolls 40% lower than the league average is a farce.

I agree that Coonelly and Huntington have made some improvements in the farm system and draft strategy but those improvements, while a positive step in the right direction, are no where near sufficient enough to turn this club around. Not in one or two years, or six years.

For one thing, it is very rare that a club will be successful enough drafting and developing good young players that they can field a competitive team made up almost entirely of pre-free agent eligible players. The Rays are an example, but that's about it. The Brewers also did a nice job building around the draft with Fielder, Weeks, Hardy, Braun, Hart, Gallardo, Hall, Sheets, etc, but even that was not enough. The still needed to spend close to $80M by adding guys like Cameron and Sabathia last year and that still wasn't enough.

End of the day, I believe this plan Coonelly and Huntington are selling is a fairy tell.

Assuming the all of a sudden learn how to draft the right players, and all of a sudden learn how to develop them properly....that still isn't enough to compete in the modern game. You need more than what Bob Nutting is willing to commit to.

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:15 PM

Hadar,

Oh forget it buddy. I'm sorry if my kidding went overboard too.

Fist bump?

FormerSoxFan wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:16 PM

Maz, I think Ortiz's stats are VERY relevant when talking about Bay.  2009 Ortiz makes 2009 LaRoche look like 2004 Ortiz.

Having said that, the rest of the lineup, plus the ballpark, have certainly helped.

mazfromiowa wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:19 PM

As for keeping Bay and signing him to a 3 year contract(35-40 mil) or trading him when they did......imo(now)...no brainer.The FO pulled the trigger and made the right call.I admit I was ticked when they did,but it was the right thing to do.I cannot see spending 1/4 of payroll on one player.OK JL roast me!

darylethepiratefan wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:19 PM

@LEADOFF,

Hey I am not in denial, but what makes you think the CUBS are that much better than us, they have there own problems, We sit 4 games behind them and to me looking at there lineup and with ARAMIS out , they can definitely be had....Man you take away the BREWER series(which I know we can't) we have played every team pretty tough....I watched the Cubs last night and I think we are gonna surprise both teams, You have to beleive leadoff, Right now Chi town is not killing it ...

CURRENT PIRATE STANDINGS

4.0 GB CUBS FOR NL WILDCARD

6.0 GB BREWERS FOR NL CENTRAL

2 GAMES UNDER 500

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:19 PM

FormerSoxfan,

"The signing of Alvarez, investment in the DR academy, interest in Sano, etc. shows me that there's a concerted effort to improve the organization at all levels."

See I don't think that is true. It seems to me Bob is willing to make modest investments at levels except the big league club. They have a team payroll 40% below the league average. 40%! - That is huge.

Bob spent $6M on Alvarez and $4M or $5M on the academy.

That is far short of the $35M he would need to spend to even have a club with enough good talent worthy of earning the league average team payroll.

Just seems like a bunch of smoke and mirrors and promises that always go unfulfilled.

juan pizarro wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:21 PM

BAB - agree that DYoung , if he's our best and hottest hitter, should DH if he's the best candidate and PH abilities should not factor in.

Just saying I wish some of these other guys could step up like he has in a PH role - seems, other than DY, we have not been very successful.

leadoff wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:22 PM

Hostage

However, after 16 consecutive losing seasons and 3 last place finishes in 4 years I have a tough time celebrating a 19-21 record. This owner has been at it now for 6 years and the ongoing lack of success is pathetic.

I don't think anyone should celebrate a 19-21 record, but a product that has more aspects of it functioning better than in the recent past is improvement and I think that is what we celebrate today.  I believe we are looking for improvement, none of us including you I am sure expects this team to win a pennant, but the Bucs defense and front line pitching is improvement and that has to be there if we are ever going to win anything.

As far as the owner is concerned, I am not going to argue his authority in the organization before 2007, I simply don't know. No matter what he did in the past I have to go with what he is doing now and what he has is a management team that is making a lot of good moves, not all moves will be agreed with by all, we know that.

I am much more concerned about the present and the future than I am about the past.

FormerSoxFan wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:22 PM

NuHo,

"I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the idea that the Pirates will one day become a competitive club with team payrolls 40% lower than the league average is a farce."

But the question is, what amount should they be spending?

How much better would the 2009 Pittsburgh Pirates be with, say, an additional $30M in payroll?  What does putting Adam Dunn and Bobby Abreu in the current lineup do for the Pirates?  76 wins instead of 68?  In the long run, it serves no purpose.

I agree that the money is part of it.  But I'm equally concerned with HOW they spend, and not simply how much.

"The Brewers also did a nice job building around the draft with Fielder, Weeks, Hardy, Braun, Hart, Gallardo, Hall, Sheets, etc, but even that was not enough. The still needed to spend close to $80M by adding guys like Cameron and Sabathia last year and that still wasn't enough."

But the money they spent, on CC in particular, got them into the playoffs, and what more can you really ask for?  You're not going to win the pennant every year.  But you want to be in the mix.

Bizrow wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:23 PM

@NuHo - re - Bob Nutting is willing to commit to.

Thats what will make the Sano saga and what we spend in the draft this year so telling..

Its like going to work, you get through one week, and darn you gotta do it again the next.

The economy is down, attendance is flat at best, don't remember the real numbers, we spent about 10 mil last year, just built the Dominican park, if he spends 14 million this year on draft and Sano, well that makes things a bit different, not that I think we'll do all that.

But if we did, it would be putting the $$ where his mouth is, don't you think?

mazfromiowa wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:29 PM

The only way we do good in Chicago?The starters are in the games for 7+ innings.The Cubs and Sox will kill our pen b/c they do not throw strikes.Our pen will walk batter after batter or throw fastballs on 3-0 and 3-1 counts and that means loonngg hits.These guys don't swing at shoulder high or down in the dirt pitches.They work the count.Could be a scary trip if the starters aren't good.No opinion...just the facts.Plain and simple.

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:29 PM

Leadoff,

I completely agree the current club has some strengths vs. previous clubs but the problem is, those strengths are not sustainable.

Come the day Adam LaRoche, Freddy Sanchez, and Jack Wilson are moved, and replaced with Pearce, Young, and ??, the defense is not going to be nearly as strong as it is now.

End of the day, and this is what it comes down to for me....I just don't see how a club will ever win when it's philosophy is to get rid of it's good players just as they hit their prime and replace them with unproven players time and time and time again.

At what point in time do you put a stake in the ground and say, we are going to build something? And retain the likes of a Jason Bay and so on?

I just don't see how that formula will ever equal any kind of success. Instead, I see it producing clubs that are two or three years and 6 to 8 good players away from being competitive year after year after year.

gregenstein wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:30 PM

I disagree that club can't be competitive with a low payroll. They very well could, as other clubs have proved. The trouble is, our management staff in the past (and so far currently) has sucked at it.

For those asking about Type A/B free agents. I don't know what the formula is for determining who is an A and who is a B. I know it's really goofy because Jason Varitek was an A last year and he hit about .230 for the season. Unless you have a really good, all-star type of year which would guarantee you being an A, it's up in the air. BUT...if you end up being an A, a team must give up it's 1st Round draft choice to the club losing the player. The club losing the player also gets a "comp" 1st round pick AT THE END of the 1st round. Now you see why Varitek signed with Red Sox. There are goofy things that can happen though. This past year, the Yankees signed 3 Type A free agents (Sabathia, Texiera, Burnett) in that order. Milwaukee got the Yankees 1st round pick, Anaheim got their 2nd round pick, and Toronto got their 3rd round pick. In short, you have no idea if the player will be a Type A or B, and even if he is, you really don't know if you'll get the other team's 1st rounder, and the Comp pick is basically a 2nd Round choice. Given this system, which has flaws but is better than just letting the Yankees and Red Sox sign everyone's best player, most teams opt to look for trades when they believe the player won't be around for long.

Bizrow wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:31 PM

Also, I wonder if revenue sharing is taking a hit?  New parks in NY, I think they will pay less to the pot due to that,

We had our chance when Nutting tried to get the casino for Seven Springs, if he had decided to do that, would have had to sell the PBC, much like the Rooney/Steeler story with race tracks/gambling

juan pizarro wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:33 PM

DH suggestions; not sure if the pitching match-ups have been announced yet (?) for the White Sox, but I suspect you will see Monroe against Buerhle or Colon, given past match-ups.

link: www.baseball-reference.com/.../b-pvb.cgi

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:35 PM

NuHo

The vicious cycle you talk about is absolutely terrifying -- and of course, completely true right now.  We snookered the Indians out of Brian Giles...kept him until we couldn't afford him and got Oliver Perez and Jason Bay.  Just as Bay was coming into his own, we dumped Ramirez. Then Perez (no regrets there, though we didn't get anything for him...where have we heard THAT before?) was dumped.  As Bay reached his peak, we dumped him too.  Now Adam is on the block. Not as his peak, but quite valuable to our team. And less valuable to other teams. We need to find a way to keep the team together.

Former Sox Fan

I agree that Dunn and Abreu wouldn't have made us all that much better in the long run...unless you sign one for four years...but that goes back to the problem of having to acquire 1251650 prospects in every trade (which we have had to do because the system is so bare).  We need to upgrade front-line players. Our staff needs an ace, not a 5th starter as was often discussed over the winter.  So, for now, upgrading the system works, but only if you switch gears (soon-ish) to a more aggressive posture for front-line talent.  

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:37 PM

FromerSoxfan,

And I completely agree that money spent has to be spent wisely. But if they are not even willing to invest in the good veteran players they already know like a Jason Bay, where can they find a wiser investment?

If the Pirates can prove they have learned how to draft well and develop well (which by the ways still needs to be proven), then sure, they may have a chance at someday competing with a payroll less than average, but that's a big if.

I don't think that anyone can say there is a specific payroll number that must be spent that will result in a winning club, but I'm pretty sure that chances of winning with a payroll 40% less than average makes the chances very, very, very slim.

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:38 PM

Bizrow

You are correct. Revenue sharing will be WAY off this year because of the Yankees and Mets exemptions for new parks.

Groat2Maz2Strangeglove wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:38 PM

I spent a lot of time this offseason arguing against signing Adam Dunn.  I argued that he was a one-tool player, that he had always been part of losing teams, that signing him would restrict money we needed elsewhere, and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, that his one tool would be overcome by his pathetic defense.

Did you see Dunn allow the fleet-footed Andy LaRoche to score all the way from first last night on a ground ball double by Jack Wilson just a little to Dunn's right?

The guy STILL has cigar store Indian range, and the arm of a 14 year old girl.

Thank You, Adam Dunn.  You won the game for us last night as much as anyone!

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:39 PM

Greg,

I think a low payroll can win.

I don't think a payroll 40% below the league average can.

IMO there is a mighty big difference between the two.

JHadar wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:40 PM

NH --  Fist Bump.  

FWIW -- There's been a lot of discussion about how we won't know what we really have until a year or two go by -- by the same token, I don't think we'll really know what this year's team is about until the end or June or early July.

We've seen what they can do when everything's clicking, and what happens when things go out of synch.  It's like we've the Jekyll team and the Hyde team, but not the everyday team yet -- or maybe there's no middle ground and one "personality" will prevail.

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:42 PM

G2M2S

Adam Dunn has 5 straight 40 homer seasons, and is consistently a high OBP guy.  That would win us a good deal of games.  And RF at PNC Park is not that hard.  He would have been an asset, in my opinion.  

Bizrow wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:43 PM

@BAB - re - nothing for Perez

Wasn't he part of the package we sent the Mets for Nady?  I think it was an older relief pitcher and Ollie for him

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:44 PM

JHadar

Agreed that its hard to tell which team will show up day in and day out. Food for thought: one of the reasons to be optimistic that this crew can be more successful than last year is that we're doing it with a lot of good pitching.  USUALLY, though not always, that is the key to sustainable success.  Of course, that pitching has to keep up, too. (And then imagine if our bullpen were consistent! Gadzooks!)

Bizrow wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:46 PM

Thinking about it, Moss, Morris, Tabata, Ohlendorf, Kartsens, McCutchen (the pitcher), Lil La and Hansen all have roots back to the Giles deal??

That wasn't a bad deal at all...  IMO of course

gregenstein wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:46 PM

The PBC I think will need to prove to the rest of the league that they are capable of fielding at least an average team before the likes of Adam Dunn, Bobby Abreu, et al. will even be interested in signing here on a contract equal to that of another team. It doesn't really matter how good Dunn might have looked in our lineup; the guy was not going to come here for that same contract he got with the Nats. Until the team proves it can evaluate talent properly, which it seems to be starting to do, all we're going to be able to sign are retreads on 1 year deals. What will be really telling is, when the next generation is ready (Alvarez, Cutch, etc), what happens to the current group? If McLouth, Maholm, etc. are systematically traded away for prospects, it will prove NuHo's belief.

macsinthebox wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:48 PM

MAZ, have you moseyed on over to the "DARK SIDE"           jk

a cheerleading AVATAR?  i am humbled

juan pizarro wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:49 PM

Groat2; Manny Acta said in last night's post-game interview: "Dunn's not Torii Hunter out there". an instant classic.  btw, whoever said yesterday that watching Acta in the dugout , standing by himself looking like he's waiting to get hit by lightning, hit the nail on the head.

@NutgH; as discussed many times previously, unfortunately the days of maintaining your players thru their MLB lifetime seem to be long gone , and I agree it's sad. Unfortunately for the Bucs to compete using the Rays/Twins/A's model means few, if any, of their players will remain a Buc forever. If the economies of baseball do not change to mimic the NFL, NBA, etc, that model will be reality.  

FormerSoxFan wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:54 PM

NuHo,

"At what point in time do you put a stake in the ground and say, we are going to build something? And retain the likes of a Jason Bay and so on?"

It's an inexact science for sure. And you're right, at some point, they're going to have to put a stake in the ground.   But the fact was that there was next to nothing in the farm system.  So moves like the ones made last year had to be made to build it up. I can see where you might prefer keeping Bay due to his age; I think it was the right move to trade him, but a solid argument can be made for keeping him.  Trading Nady/Marte, on the other hand, was a no-brainer.

Groat2Maz2Strangeglove wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:54 PM

Hadar in the Hinterland,

One "personality" that has already prevailed is what the Pirates are able to do when Jack Wilson is the shortstop.

The Buccos are 6 games over .500 with Wilson in the lineup.

HostageSage,

WHEN the Pirates dump the players you mention, I will whine or complain.  Until then, I will deal with the reality of what we have right now.

That "I'm not marrying her; she may be fat in 10 years" philosophy may sell newspapers, but isn't productive in my daily walk.

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:55 PM

Biz

My mistake. I was thinking of the Kris Benson and Keppinger for Ty Wigginton, Matt Peterson and Joey Bats deal for some reason.  That trade would've worked better if we'd kept Wigginton for the good three years he had (24-22-23 HRs in the three years after we got rid of him).  Oliver and Roberto Hernandez were indeed dealt for the X man.  Good pickup.

leadoff wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:56 PM

Daryl

Hey I am not in denial, but what makes you think the CUBS are that much better than us, they have there own problems, We sit 4 games behind them and to me looking at there lineup and with ARAMIS out , they can definitely be had....Man you take away the BREWER series(which I know we can't) we have played every team pretty tough....I watched the Cubs last night and I think we are gonna surprise both teams, You have to beleive leadoff, Right now Chi town is not killing it ...

First of all I don't believe I said somewhere that Daryl is in Denial?

I don't recall saying the Cubs were that much better, I believe I said they were a better team right now, sorry if you have a problem with that, but this blog is not here to just say what some else says you should say.

To say I don't believe is also a stretch, I presented reasons why I thought it would be tough to win in Chicago and the reasons add up to some loses, that was it.

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:57 PM

FormerSox,

"but a solid argument can be made for keeping him.  Trading Nady/Marte, on the other hand, was a no-brainer"

Agreed. IMO keeping Bay longterm would have been the right call and I agree trading Nay/Marte probably was a no-brainer, but I would have complained anyway.

;-)

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 1:57 PM

greg

You really don't think Adam Dunn would've come to our lineup...but was willing to go to the Nats?  Based on what?  How is our lineup worse than the Nats?  Nate-Freddy-Ryan-Adam are WAY better than the Nats four best hitters without Dunn.

Bizrow wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:01 PM

IMO Bay would have signed a deal with PBC at reasonable prices, he liked it here

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:03 PM

Hadar,

I'm not sure I agree we don't know that much about this team even after 40 games.

Against clubs with a .500 record or better, the Pirates are 8-17 (.320).

Against clubs with a .499 record or lower, the Pirates are 11-4.

Seems to me this is a club that doesn't have the horses to beat good clubs consistently, but has enough to beat bad clubs.

21sthebest wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:06 PM

"but the idea that the Pirates will one day become a competitive club with team payrolls 40% lower than the league average is a farce."

You keep harping on this "statistic" and it's not relevant.  You might as well throw out the New Yorks, Chicago's, LA's, Phillies, Houston, and Boston.  Perhaps even Seattle and Atlanta.  I don't know what average payrolll is without those teams but if you're going to compare the Pirates payroll to other teams, IMO you can only go so far as similar teams in similar markets like the Brewers, Indians, Twins, Tampa, etc.

And if you look at those teams, you'll probably find that they've done a lot better job of drafting and developing over the past 10 years or so than we have.

leadoff wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:07 PM

Hostage

Come the day Adam LaRoche, Freddy Sanchez, and Jack Wilson are moved, and replaced with Pearce, Young, and ??, the defense is not going to be nearly as strong as it is now.

This particular part of the plan is something that I have posted on, these moves are critical, but not so much about money, they are critical because you can make them if you have the players to replace them, you don't have to put a stake in the ground when your system has the replacement talent.

The players you brought up are a prime example, the system does not have anyone that is proven ready to replace any of them. however, so paying them for lets say 2 yr. contracts that are not that expensive would be wise moves.

The only thing that you and I don't know is what moves will be made to shore up these positions when the time comes to make these moves. We do have outfield and catching depth, we could lose Doumit and replace him, we could lose Nate and replace him, I speak of these two players when the time comes for them to go or stay, not now.

Our depth issue showed up this week, we needed a relief pitcher, we went to Indy and brought up Gorzo, last year we had no Gorzo, he could have won 2 games for us we did not win last year.

FormerSoxFan wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:09 PM

On an unrelated note, I can't upload an avatar for the life of me, and I have no idea why.  Did anyone else have trouble with it?  Maybe I should try from my home computer.

JHadar wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:10 PM

If think it's been reported that the Bucs keep track of pretty much all the players everywhere and have a system of evaluating what they're willing to pay to acquire or what they want in return.  

They were reported to be after Dunn -- and there was a tremendous amount of debate here on the guy's relative strengths and weaknesses -- but evidently Washington wanted him more than we did.  He went unsigned for quite a while.

The guy I thought we missed the boat on was Joe Crede, but that was before Andy woke up.  I don't think he was ever mentioned here.

I think if I was Washington mgmt, I would be considering doing Bay/Nady like trades with Zimmerman and Dunn and whoever might bring them a boatload of prospects at the deadline -- but the way clubs are valuing prospects right now, maybe those kind of trades are a thing of the past.

Q wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:11 PM

Re:  Front Office

If your house was falling apart, investing in a paint job just to put money into the house is only covering up the core of the problem.  You need to rip out walls and build a solid foundation.  Once that solid foundation is in place, then the nice paint job will help enhance the house.

paint job = free agents

foundation = minor leagues/player development

A team like the Pirates need a factory of talented players to come through their system.  When the time is right, they should consider to invest in a player during some of his free agent years.  They just don't have the foundation in place to make it a wise investment at this time.  

Plenty of Hope wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:11 PM

NuttingHostage and others this applies to:

READ MY WORDS:

There is no reason to believe the ownership will not spend more on payroll in the coming years. You are basing the future on the past. I have been personally told they will spend. I believe that until they prove me wrong.

Srsly.

mazfromiowa wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:14 PM

macs-How bout this one?

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:15 PM

NuHo

Interesting stat. What are we against those respective teams if you take out the games they've played us? So, for instance, St Louis is 6 over .500, but only 5 over in games against everyone else. The Mets, on the other hand, are actually under .500 without their games against us. Florida is at .500 without their games against us.  Et cetera.  

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:18 PM

POH,

READ MY WORDS:

There is every reason to believe Bob Nutting will not spend when the mystical "time" comes because he didn't do it for 2008. The Pirates had the best outfield in baseball and one of the highest scoring offenses in the NL. A modest investment of something better than 40% less than the MLB average team payroll and in a starter or two and a reliever or two could have made a difference. Bob kept his hands firmly entrenched in his pockets. I've seen all I need to see to know what he will do next time.

Srsly.

JHadar wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:18 PM

FSF -- Click on JAL's avatar for full avatar loading instructions.  Some common gotchas are the add button at the bottom of the page and trying to load the avatar directly off the web.  It needs to be from your own machine.

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:19 PM

POH,

By the way, they already did prove you wrong.

In 2008.

Srsly.

JAL wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:20 PM

Former Sox

Click on my name for instructions on an avatar--and remember two things--It will not show up immediately--just come back here and post and it should show up.  Also, the picture has to be on your computer

JAL wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:21 PM

JH

Thanks--I posted on the avatar before I saw you did.

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:22 PM

POH,

We should think about forming the PBC Asylum IUP Alumni Association.

mazfromiowa wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:22 PM

FSF Did you go to TOOLS-Clear Private Data-Cache and clear the cache?

leadoff wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:22 PM

Hostage

Seems to me this is a club that doesn't have the horses to beat good clubs consistently, but has enough to beat bad clubs.

I believe that is correct you are right in how they are doing head to head, facts don't lie at this time, they have to start beating teams of higher caliber and I don't mean one game.

I do believe the improvement in defense and starting pitching and some of the depth issues that have been addressed will begin to pay dividends.

I don't necessarily agree with Russell that this a better balanced hitting team, I think our inability to handle left handed pitching is evidence that we don't have balance.

macsinthebox wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:23 PM

macs-How bout this one?

The cheerleading avatar  I LOVE IT

I am actually working on one for you bud

Plenty of Hope wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:24 PM

I know they didn't spend a lot more in 2008. I'm aware of what's going on. I'm telling you, as we add depth at the farm level, as we secure players through arbitration (Nate, Paul, Ryan) and as we trade for effective pieces, they will begin to spend more to fill in needs.

We can agree to disagree on this, that's fine. But the future is not sealed.

Baywatch wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:28 PM

Just got home from picking up Bay Jr. and his girlfriend, Bay Jr's Steady, at the Dallas aeropuerte ... I'm bombed out.

Everybody playing nice today? Remember to share your stories, honoring family and friends who served our country, on the "other stuff" thread.

We may have a family conflict tonight. Taking Bay Jr. to watch the Pens, at the daughter and son-in-law's (they have cable). Bay Jr. said I could use his laptop to watch the Pirates (on our mlb.tv account). I'm wondering, though, if daughter will ACTUALLY expect us to visit? Imagine that!

21sthebest wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:28 PM

POH,

I'm not sure if they'll spend a lot more on free agents but I think that they will spend more on extending talented young players much the way the Brewers have done with Braun and the Rays with Longoria.

Q wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:28 PM

@Hostage

How would they have obtained those pitchers last year - trade or free agent?  If trade, what would you have given up?  I don't think anyone expected our offense last year to be as good as it was early in the season.  While i liked McClouth, I didn't expect him to have an All Star year.  Did anyone expect Nady to be healthy and be hitting .320?  Last year was a career year for him.  There were also questions surrounding Bay's knee as he didn't have a good year the prior season.  

Also, do you think that one or two starters would have made the difference for the Bucs last year to make them a contender?  

Plenty of Hope wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:32 PM

21sthebest: Thank you. I believe that will be a big part of the "spend more." I believe that this administration will pay for a piece or two now and then, but won't be out there outbidding the Yankees. I never said that.

Q - good Q! I don't think one or two people would have made the difference. I believe the trade was effective for it's intent. We got more depth, we offloaded pieces that were of value to someone else. Two of those aren't doing so well, one is but in a golden lineup, which he wouldn't have been in here in 2008 or 2009, so it's not like Bay would have those numbers in the new Pirates sleeves.

JAL wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:36 PM

Oh, on the question of who will DH during the Sox games--that was in stories a couple of days ago--don't remember everyone but I iknow Moss and Monroe were mentioned as possible DH

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:36 PM

POH,

"We can agree to disagree on this, that's fine."

I'm afraid that's what we are going to have to do.

;-)

leadoff wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:36 PM

Hostage

There is every reason to believe Bob Nutting will not spend when the mystical "time" comes because he didn't do it for 2008. The Pirates had the best outfield in baseball and one of the highest scoring offenses in the NL. A modest investment of something better than 40% less than the MLB average team payroll and in a starter or two and a reliever or two could have made a difference.

I do not believe they will spend money when the time comes, I don't believe that is the Plan and anyone that thinks that is in the play is kidding themselves.

I do believe that the plan is to plug in players to take the places of players that they will lose.

I know that every team loses players and they don't pay them, so what makes anyone think the Pirates are going to be any different.

I believe that what they did with McClouth, Doumit and Maholm is what you are going to see.

Logical mind would say what they are doing is correct, they will keep these players though there prime years, the fans will get mad when they let them go, but at the time that will probably be the right move, just like letting Bay and Nady go was.

Those moves had to be made, no question about it.

Pirates have replaced both of them in one year and now find themselves with a crowded outfield and players in the system pushing the outfielders they have.

One note, I don't believe they replaced them with better players, just players that this team can win with.

JAL wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:37 PM

POH

The future is so bright i got to wear shades :)

Groat2Maz2Strangeglove wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:37 PM

Hopeful One,

I hate the sleeves, by the way.  The look like pajama tops——and I prefer no pajamas.

Bring back the shells!!!

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:39 PM

Q,

First, I thought it was unforgiveable for the FO to go into 2008 with essentially the same squad that had finished in 5th place the year before without attempting to improve it.

That said, yes I think a starter or two, and a reliever or two would have made a difference.

You just can't keep asking David to slay Goliath season after season after season. - And that my good man, is the Bob Nutting way!

Q wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:39 PM

Going into '08, we still had questions with our outfield.  I couldn't imagine that the front office would have thought they were sitting on the most productive outfield at that time.  McClouth was a first time starter. Nady was always injured and while solid, never a star.  And Bay had knee problems the prior year and product took a drastic step back.  To think that they looked at that lineup and assumed that all they needed a couple of pitchers is a bit of a stretch.  

After the season started, they could have traded for someone, but who and what would we give up?  I think they thought they had more with regards to pitching going into '08 and they underperformed.  That's why they took their best chips and rolled the dice on a deal to bring more arms and prospects.  

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:40 PM

Leadoff,

"One note, I don't believe they replaced them with better players, just players that this team can win with. "

Umm, Leadoff buddy. - They aren't winning.

;-)

leadoff wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:45 PM

Hostage

That said, yes I think a starter or two, and a reliever or two would have made a difference.

Kerrigan would have made more of a difference than a starter or two, they might have been a couple of coaches away from winning.

I can't say this enough, on any level and any sport, you have to be able to coach um up. Rarely does anyone have the 27 Yankees to work with every year.

Plenty of Hope wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:45 PM

NuttingHostage:

<<We should think about forming the PBC Asylum IUP Alumni Association.>>

That means we would need to call each other and ask for money every few months.

macsinthebox wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:47 PM

MAZ  RAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  PRICELESS

The morality police didnt like option 1 for me aSWEET "GRIM REAPER"

I am certain option 2 was'nt going to fly  a  soldier from WW1 with a cup of coffee in his hand and the saying ?how about a nice warm cup of "SHUT THE F#$K UP"  Iguess with memorial day around the corner that would have been in poor taste  LOL

mazfromiowa wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:49 PM

Put me down as one who disdains the sleeves.I also like stirrups,but not so much the socks w/o stirrups.Old school I guess.I too think the long pants look like pajamas also.Might as well be wearing bell bottoms.

leadoff wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:49 PM

Hostage

"One note, I don't believe they replaced them with better players, just players that this team can win with. "

Umm, Leadoff buddy. - They aren't winning.

I don't think the outfield is why we are not winning right now, I think if the other parts of the team function as they should we can win with this outfield.

Q wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 2:52 PM

Re:  Last year

Did we think Gorzo was going to take a huge step back like that?  Did they think Snell simply had a 'sophmore slump' in '07 and figured he'd rebound?  Could you assume that Duke was going to have a 4.8+ ERA?  

All three of them pitched poorly last year - much worse than what was anticipated.  The never developed better arms in their system to have them come in and help - look at who they used to fill in last year... Barthmaier, Herrara, JVB, TJ Beam.  

You have to think of the mind set going into last year before you can make those statements.  We can look back now and say that IF we had some more arms, they would have competed.  While they would have been better - I still don't think they would have been able to contend and that's our goal.  

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 3:08 PM

Leadoff,

"I don't think the outfield is why we are not winning right now, I think if the other parts of the team function as they should we can win with this outfield."

What part of the team is not functioning as it should?

The bullpen? - I think it is performing exactly as it should be expected.

3rd base? Right field? - I think we are getting about what one should expect from inexperienced, marginal prospects.

I think overall the club is performing as well or better than should be expected given the talent.

They broke up the best outfield and baseball and didn't improve. - They just reshuffled the deck. - As evidenced by having the exact same record they had last year after 40 games.

0 + 0 will always = 0.

If you have not invested in enough talent, you can trade off the few good pieces you have for other players and reshuffle the deck all you want but at the end of the day, $50M buys you $50M in talent these days which is unfortunately 40% less than the MLB team payroll average.

IMO this club is performing above expectations commensurate with the level of talent on the roster.

I don't see how the existing talent could perform much differently.

mazfromiowa wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 3:08 PM

macs-I have one that says"I see dumb people",but Baywatch sent a post saying they might not allow,so I removed it.

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 3:09 PM

POH,

If you call me for money, I will do to you the same thing I do to the IUP call-a-thon people. Speak in a fake accent and say NuttingHostage doesn't live at this number any more.

;-)

mazfromiowa wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 3:12 PM

Ants alimping ===-===-==-+--==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=--=-=---

BayAreaBuccaneer wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 3:14 PM

NuHo

Calling Moss and AnLa marginal prospects isn't accurate. They were both considered a tick below elite.  

Also...What accent do you use?

Plenty of Hope wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 3:16 PM

NuHo -- and if you call me I'll do what I do with them, have you up what degree I earned, and when you say "Journalism" I say "so you know I don't have any money" and I hang up.

JAL wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 3:16 PM

some ants marching===================================

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 3:22 PM

POH,

LAMC! - Good one.

One night they called during supper and asked for me. I told them I would get me if they could hold a moment and they said sure. So I put the phone in one of our kitchen cupboards, closed the door and went back to eating supper while they held.

Mrs. Nuttinghostage was mortified.

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 3:24 PM

BAB,

"Also...What accent do you use?"

American Redneck.

;-)

G-Man wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 3:25 PM

PoH & NuHos -

Re Alumni Associations: >>That means we would need to call each other and ask for money every few months.<<

This is not a baseball comment but is relevant since you two posted about college Alumni Associations.

I am a CMU alumnus. Every year since before Moses, they call me for money and I tell them, "If you call me on the phone, you get nothing. Write to me and I'll donate, but only if you don't call." And nearly every year, the write but they still call. I think I have donated about 5 times over the years. Why would an institution of such intelligencia not "get it" about the phone calls?

If you can give me a good answer, I will split my unspent CMU donation for 2009 between the two of you.

madturk2008 wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 3:27 PM

@Plenty of Hope wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?

on May 21, 2009 2:11 PM

NuttingHostage and others this applies to:

READ MY WORDS:

There is no reason to believe the ownership will not spend more on payroll in the coming years. You are basing the future on the past. I have been personally told they will spend. I believe that until they prove me wrong.

Srsly.

_______________

Seems PoH has her dander up :-)

You go girl.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

@NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?

on May 21, 2009 2:19 PM

POH,

By the way, they already did prove you wrong.

In 2008.

___________________

Nope you are wrong here, They spent for the future with the trades.  If you can't see that then you may need to see your optometrist soon.

See the post by 21sthebest for info

IMHO

You have to have talent in the system ready to come up, or soon to come up.  This let’s you determine who you can replace in the most favorite way to keep the club competitive in the long run.  Sure some of our better players or favorites will be traded at some point. You have to do that these days to keep getting talent in the system.  Once we have a team with replacements waiting you can pick the positions that are weakest in the minors and sign the ones on the major league club to longer deals until replacements can be added to the system.

When that happens, that’s when we will see the payroll go up.  Keeping Bay/Nady and others would not have help our minor leagues nor served the Major league team down the road.

“If you live only for today you may not have a tomorrow.”

tedkin43 wrote re: Pirates Q&A: 'Inside track' on Sano?
on Thu, May 21 2009 6:38 PM

Nutty Buddy,

"By the time the McCutchen's, Tabata's, Ford's, Friday's, Alvarez's, and Lincoln's arrive and develop into productive major league players, other players like McClouth, Doumit, Maholm, Capps, Duke, Snell, will have all become too expensive for Nutting's taste and we will be having to replace them with unproven players."

Once again you post assumptions as facts, and we all know what happens when you assume.

The truth is, neither you nor I nor anyone else knows what the future will bring since this team has not been in this exact situation before. To sit and snipe and expound on the future as if you have a crystal ball may serve your needs. I prefer to wait and see what happens.