Pirates add veteran infielder Gotay

Any idea whether Gotay got an invite to major league camp?

He had a good year as a UT guy for the Mets in 2007.  He didn't hit so well for the Braves in 2008, but he was still easily better than Luis Rivas, and probably a lot better than Luis Cruz or Brian Bixler would be.  The big drawback is that he can really only play 2B.

I'm as comfortable with Gotay at 2B as I am with Sanchez.

Gotay = Rivas

Rivas = Gotay

@rosie - well, on the other thread we were talking (or at least I was) about depth up the middle.  It will give us an option at 2B, but still a marginal player, at least stats wise.

Freddie is ok, just with us, its hard to give up outs, his OBP is pretty lame, but he does like his cuts, we might have too many of those types, another reason to miss JBay

Rosey,

You kidding me?

FYI....

Gotay's fielding percentage in the 12 major league games he has played 3B is .909. - If Gotay actually got a start at 3B for the Bucs, Stonehenge LaRoche and his .947 could serve as a late inning "defensive replacement".

Prior to playing for the Pirates in 2008, Luis Rivas had played shortstop in 9 major league games. Due to the injury to Jack Wilson, Rivas added to those 9 with an additional 31 appearances at shortstop for the Pirates.

Coming in to the 2009 season, Gotay has made 5 appearances at shortstop as a major leaguer.

Looks to me like an option to backup second base and a pinch hitting "threat" off the bench to me.

Bizzy,

Rivas wasn't much at 3B or SS, but he was actually pretty good fielding second base.

@NH - re Rivas - thanks, didn't know that.

Andy Marte news

castrovince.mlblogs.com/.../hey_mister_deejay_wont_ya_hear.html

The mind plays bizarre tricks on you sometime.  When I saw Rueben Gotay, my immediate thought was "is this guy related to our old utility infielder Julio Gotay"  So I checked Baseball Reference, and discovered that Julio had 4 AB's for us 1963 and 64 -- must have been a TV game that I saw or something and it stuck with me all those years while the brevity of his tenure faded into fuzziness.  He hit .500 (1 for 2) both years.

Then I checked Wikipedia -- Rueben is Julio's  nephew.   How 'bout that?

DK...Should we file this under "Minor Matters"?

It does kind of have the look of trying to get some back-ups for the back-ups.  Just speculating.

I was thinking "veteran presence" at the AAA level and a bit of insurance just in case for F Sanchez.

This does not strike me as a move to help the major league roster.

Jose

@JH--

It does kind of have the look of trying to get some back-ups for the back-ups.  Just speculating.

I am glad the PBC is paying attention to our blog posts, we have been discussing organizational depth all day, now they show up with a fill in 2nd basemen if something happens to Freddy, could the Pirates have someone interested in Freddie?

@ Nutty Buddy

Nice to see you back in full rant mode again today, but I must ask a couple of questions.

#1 How were the Nuttings "presented" with a publicly funded ballpark when PNC opened in 2001 and the Nuttings (Ogden and Bob in that order) didn't take control until 2003? I have asked this question before and never got an answer.

#2. Since when is it a crime to actually make money on a business venture.? You never fail to take Nutting to task for making a profit, but what is a business owner supposed to do? Seems like misguided criticism to me.

I realize you have issues with the Nuttings, and though most of your criticisms about the PBC have merit, though based on the past regime's watch, these personal attacks on the ownership seem a bit over the top.

NuttingHostage - refrain from your algebraic type posts, por fa vor.

Rosey - tell me when Freddy became the leagues worst second baseman. I must have missed that announcement.

minor leagues. He's no Shelby Ford.

The post says it unknown if he will be in the major league camp.  Many of these signing to have players for the minor league teams and ones with experience then can be brought up if needed.  

@POH--

Rosey- tell me when Freddy became the leagues worst second baseman. I must have missed that announcement.

When he showed up with one eye and one arm.

Unfortunately people don't realize that players heal and you can't win a batting title, then forget how to hit, even at that he hit over 300 after the all star break. Let me see how he does when he is healthy before I rush to judgement.

Good grief--now we on Sanchez--hardly the most important position that needs help--we do not know what is on third, we don't know who will start in the OF, still have to figure out what the rotation is.  Hardly time to worry about 2nd base.  As leadoff wrote--he well after the break last season and we know he can hit when healthy.

Also, too many Maz imitators here--click on my name and get the instructions on how to add a avatar.  Makes it easier to follow the posts for us.

leadoff - I didn't say he was the best 2nd baseman ever, either.

Is it me and my random scanning of blog posts or do we NOT have any info on how Freddy and Jack are doing health wise? They both ended last season worse for wear. The whole team is working now, right? Not just pitchers?

If Little Roach's problem is chronic, which is what is sounds like, we are so up the crick without a paddle at third. Srsly.

"NEAL WALKER REPORT TO THIRD BASE. NEAL. NEAL WALKER. PLEASE REPORT TO THIRD BASE. THANK YOU."

yawn!

Come on Ruben Gotay!?!? Why not Dirty Doug?

@JAL: <<Good grief--now we on Sanchez--hardly the most important position that needs help--we do not know what is on third, we don't know who will start in the OF, still have to figure out what the rotation is.  Hardly time to worry about 2nd base.  As leadoff wrote--he well after the break last season and we know he can hit when healthy.>>

Standing. Clapping. The BSKOF for today goes to you, JAL, for pulling in the reins.

Because I was thinking we don't know who's on third, and the guy we thought had it has "just a back spasm" that is actually an old, chronic condition and said professional athlete "sorta" quit doing the exercises that help his disk stay, well, less bothered, and now we're not happy with Sanchez?

POH

Freddy and jack are both doing well right now.

At marty:

<<Why not Dirty Doug?>>

Here's why:

1. Dirty Doug wants to start in the majors, not be assigned to a minor league team.

2. Dirty Doug is not middle infield in the majors, why would he be middle infield in the minors?

POH

Here is an article on Freddy

www.theintelligencer.net/.../520578.html

@Hope

1. Sign him to a major league contract,

2. Get rid of Andy LaRoche, and play Doug at 3rd until Walker is ready.

marty - Someone has to play 2B at Indy

@papacoach

Stil doesn't explain why we wouldn't sign Doug.

Marty

maybe it is Doug that will not sign with the Pirates--also, not like anyone else is rushing to sign him

JAL

True but the Pirates never offered him a contract that i know of.

Marty

I think you are right on that.

Marty, As much as you and others like Doug's fiery competitive image, at this point in his career a team that sees him as a starter is a team trying for a very high draft choice next year. As much as everyone is down on the brothers Laroche, playing Doug in place of either of them would be a step down.

JAL

And thats the part that i don't get, without him this team would've lsot at least 100 games last year. He was the only guy that showed heart and seemed like he wanted to be there half the time. He was more of a manager then JR was.

papacoach

And the Pirates aren't a team playing for a high draft pick this year? And playing him over Andy LaRoche, not Adam, i believe would be an improvement. Play him at 3rd until Walker is ready offensively, because Walker is by far the best defensive 3rd basemen in the system.

Marty, I along with everyone else believed that last year but I have begun to wonder, in this economy at the price Doug would demand, if he really was worth 3 or 4 wins wouldn't there be some team among the leaders wanting to sign him to take advantage of that leadership. Could it possibly be that he was not the great inspiration we all thought? Just tninkin'

papacoach

All things you said are very true. But on a team built around young guys, (McLouth, Doumit, Moss, McCutchen, Maholm, Capps), i think his leadership skills, and history of winning is another thing he brigns to the table that would help this team.

JAL, Marty,

I think doug told the buccos he would look for a starting position and would get back to them before he signed with another team.

I would say he waited a bit too long.  As he looked the pirates looked and saw more.

Who knows what happened but it started with DD and wherever he ends up either on a team or watching it on TV with us, it was his decision, he rolled the dice.

Jersey Joe

Very true, he should've known he wasn't gonna get a starting job and should've just signed somewhere as a bench guy. Now he may be at home watching it on tv like all of us.

Jersey Joe

Very true, he should've known he wasn't gonna get a starting job and should've just signed somewhere as a bench guy. Now he may be at home watching it on tv like all of us.

Marty

he wasn't the only one who played with heart--he even pointed to Mclouth and Doumit as players who played with heart

JAL

Yes but outside of them who, Jack when healthy but mainly hes sick and tired of being on awful teams.

Marty

I though Maholm played with heart--not sure ho you count relief pitchers but Grabow certainly showed up time and again as did some others in the pen.

Marty, JAL,

I think I would add Burnett to that list.  I think Freddy is also along with jack the two have *  Freddy played hurt but his history makes him eligable.

POH-

Gotay > Rivas

Gotay >= Ronnie Belliard (Nationals)

Gotay = Lenny Harris (formerly of reds and Dodgers)

Gotay = Tadahito Ighuchi.

Gotay + Iguchi = F. Sanchez

No range at 2b, but can hit.  

Has a big neck.

Jersey

True on Freddy when healthy. And i didn't think of Burnett but now that i think about it i would put him in there because of how hard he worked to rehab from the surgeries and finally get back to majors. But McLouth, Doumit, Doug, and Jack were only guys in may opinion who had heart and gave 110% everyday.

@marty34156 wrote re: Pirates add veteran infielder Gotay

on Feb 23, 2009 7:24 PM

@Hope

1. Sign him to a major league contract,

2. Get rid of Andy LaRoche, and play Doug at 3rd until Walker is ready.

___________

I liked DD...

But in answer to your question did you watch DD play third last year?  If so, there is your reason.

madturk

I would still rather have him there then LaRoche, and i can't emphasize it enough, just until Walker is major league ready.

Marty

Laroche may surprise you, or he may not.  If LaRoche  flops Hinske can play third with a lot more power than DD.

JAL

True with Hinske, and i'm rather certain LaRoche will not surprise me. I would love it if he did, but i'll be surprised if he did.

JAL<<laroach>>  I do think the same thing with Andy.  I am a little upset about the stoped exercise routine  and since i do not know the whole story I say wwe give him a clear shot if his health is fine.

Does anyone recall if any of the players have expressed a desire to have Doug back? I honestly do not remember but that very well could be my "old timers" kicking in.

JJ- I think Andy thought they he was out of the woods, and was working out with the team during the winter.  He was taking batting practice at PNC during a break during Piratefest if I can recall.

Gotay = nothing

Its simply one of those signings that makes you say, Huh??

Re -DD - he deserves to play somewhere, IMO

When I checked out of here, things were nice and calm, came back and maybe its the way I read these posts, but sheesh, people didn't have their wheaties (or meds??) today??

Folks, this is a game, its our love, but its day what 10??

Sorry, maybe I'm miisreading things, or maybe Nurse Cratchett was late with rounds.

Re Nurse Cratchett

Fantasy League

Yahooo

League # 129517

password: cratchett

BTW:  with humor, no one in this league will win 98 games, be there or be square...

Papa- I think Doumit expressed how he grew with Doug's influence.  

I get this feeling Doug is going to be a Marlin.  

Fantasy league

5 down, 11 to go

Keep the faith, folks, and the peace, it gets dicey in here, IMO

IMO, decent pickup adds depth with major league experience to infield.

Stanley, today on the stan and guy show<<radio sports talk>>,   They discussed his situation and they concluded Andy  had no excuse to not continue his routine, i concur with that.  I also am willing to forget it if he does not forget it.

My wish is he is ready and healthy  and plays well. I know too many want to already label him an AAA player at tops.

I no way even think that far.  

If Andy is well and I think he can be well I see no reason as yet to think anything other than he should become a stable major league thirdbaseman.

We have not seen him play healthy, I think that a very big thing, big enough to toss everything we have seen of him out the window and say lets see what a number two prospect can do.

Bizrow

WE do our our best to keep this place peaceful.  Some of the inmates forget to take their meds.  Might have to ask the govt. for funds to hire an enforcer:)

All I know is that a 14/37 k/BB ratio at AAA for Andy last year is disgustingly good.   He's been struggling as a Pirate, but I think of it is thats he's a college sophomore who struggled badly as a freshman.  

Also, Baseball Prospectus came out last week (lots of good bathroom reading for the next few weeks), and they compared him to...

Kevin Youkillis.  

That works for me. So long as Andy works at it and if the Pirates start a fight with a team, Andy doesn't shy away from it.  During the Rays/ Red Sox fight, Youk didn't leave the bench.

20 years ago, with little media coverage, does this get mentioned?

I thought "Gotay" was what you call that weird chinny-chin-chin hair a lot of the players grow.

Wow, you guys and gals are really going at it tonight.  POH-you are my inspiration to post my thoughts on AnLa. If you are doubting him, I don't feel out of place. (I saw some indication that we were overreacting to his back issue).

1.  He comes from a MLB family

2.  He probably has a wealth of talent to justify his early "top prospect" billing

3.  Based on his pedigree and natural talent things sportswise have always been easy and presented to him

4.  He has as chance last year to show his stuff with LA and fails, blamed on finger injury

5.  He is picked up by the Bucs based on his excellent minor league history despite the lack of Major league numbers, his finger injury and presumably an awareness of his back history (not sore back, but "bulging disk.")

6.  Presented with the opportunity to finish year as starting 3rd baseman for his brother's team

7.  Shows evident lack of hustle both offensively and defensively despite presumably having the tools.

8.  Bats between .150 and.160 and fielding is mediocre at best

9.  Decides over off season to quit approach to back problems

10.  Has healthy hand

11.  Does offseason work with D Long and while at Piratefest, during break goes to PNC Park with Freddy and others and D Long for batting practice ( is this his idea or them saying to him, "Dude, you got to WORK."

My interim conclusion based on the above, which of course he could change based on performance, is that he is a prima donna that quits easily when confronted with adversity, is not used to adversity or having to try hard and is ripe for failure.  I'm sure there are things I've missed, but I would guess as many would be negative as positive.

I'd love to be wrong, but this kid's promise with this team (or any team) is highly doubtful.  Prove me wrong, Andy.

JAL- Isn't that what Madturk and Bay are for?  

Also, Maz keeps us straight too.  

JAL and Biz--I checked out the Yankees blog today about X-man, and anytime anyone here thinks this place isn't peaceful and respectful (for the most part) should check that blog out.  I didn't study it, but some guy took on a female poster taking the position that because she was female she couldn't question someone's cojones.  I know it sometimes takes some gentle policing, but we have a very nice place here (maybe more confirmation that we're all nuts.)

WSB

Mad and Bay do the job when they are here

With that--good night to all and to all a goodnight

Arriba,

all that aside, if he, after I give him the free pass for a fresh start does not show the evidence to his manly attempt to become a major league third baseman then I am on your side.

Ruben Go...go...

Go-tae?

Goat-ey...?.

...

Cham-pee-onn-ship!

Arriba- I think that is the same fan who had a few and was pummelled in the right field stands on first day I went to Yankee stadium (and Phil Hughes debut), or maybe that is the fan that NYPD ejected from throwing soda at a  Red Sox fan.

I think we as a group are fortunate to have baseball educated female posters.   Definitely adds a different and in-depth perspective.

More reading Baseball Prospectus has big Laroche as a Jason Giambi equivialant.

Who wouldn't take Youkills and Giambi year in 2009?  Those are monster type-years.