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Post-Gazette beat writers Dejan Kovacevic and Chuck Finder blog about the Pittsburgh Baseball Club.

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Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal

By Dejan Kovacevic | 7:17 a.m. Tuesday

In a sharp reversal, the Pirates and center fielder Nate McLouth this morning agreed to terms on a three-year contract -- plus a club option for a fourth -- that avoided an arbitration hearing that had been scheduled for this afternoon in Phoenix.

A source confirmed the agreement overnight, but no financial details are available yet. The term buys up all three of McLouth's arbitration-eligible seasons, plus one out of free agency.

More to come.

UPDATE 7:26 a.m.: It had been universally expected -- and declared by both sides -- that only a one-year term had been getting negotiated since early December, when initial talks aimed at a multiyear collapsed. (And badly at that, by all accounts.) Nothing had appeared to change on that front, either, when team president Frank Coonelly flew yesterday to Phoenix. But neither side was talking publicly the past few days, and that might have been the first indication that something was unusual.

McLouth's multiyear contract means the Pirates succeeded in all three of their offseason multiyear targets, including pitcher Paul Maholm and catcher Ryan Doumit, moves that solidify what management believes will be the core of the franchise for years to come. In all three cases, at least one year of free agency was bought up by the team. In Doumit's case, it was two years.

McLouth, 27, enjoyed a breakout 2008 with a .276 average, 26 home runs, 94 RBIs, a Gold Glove and an All-Star appearance at Yankee Stadium.

The arbitration hearing was to be heard by a three-member panel that would pick one salary or the other -- McLouth submitted $3.8 million, the team $2.75 million for a rare gap that exceeded $1 million -- but the parties were free to reach amicable agreement at any point leading up to the panel's decision. McLouth was first-time eligible for arbitration after making $425,500 last season.

9:20 a.m.: The Pirates inform that there will be no formal announcement of McLouth's contract until later this afternoon. He will be made available to the media in Bradenton at that time. He is flying back from Phoenix, where he, too, had intended to take part in the arbitration hearing.

10:14 a.m.: Total guaranteed money for the contract is $15.75 million.

10:25 a.m. From a source, here is the contract breakdown: There is a $1.5 million signing bonus and salaries of $2 million this coming season, $4.5 million next season, $6.5 million in 2011. The club option for 2012 is $10.65 million, with a $1.25 million buyout. There also are performance bonuses that can be as much as $500,000 for 2010 and 2011, as much as $750,000 in 2012. The bonuses are based on awards.

11:38 a.m.: Just spoke with Mike Nicotera, McLouth's agent, who shared some tidbits: He and McLouth and the Pirates' brass, including Frank Coonelly, met last night at a Phoenix hotel and struck a deal at 1:20 a.m. Arizona time, 3:20 a.m. Eastern time. "Give Frank the credit," Nicotera said. "He got really involved last week, and he made clear to Nate that he wanted to establish a long-term relationship. The Pirates came up with all different kinds of ways. It was at Frank's urging that we went back to a multiyear. We didn't come out here expecting that." The meeting that led to the resolution took up nearly six hours. It ended with Coonelly summoning everyone to the lobby after a short break to hammer out the final details, then hands were shaken.

11:50 a.m.: A little more breakdown on those bonuses, which actually are escalators: If McLouth wins another Gold Glove this season, it adds $200,000 to his salary for 2010. Same holds true for the following year. If he wins one in 2011, it adds $300,000 for 2012. Similarly, there is a $200,000 escalator for an All-Star appearance for 2010 and 2011, $300,000 for 2012. And there is a $100,000 escalator for Silver Slugger awards for 2010 and 2011, $150,000 for $2012. ... Total max value of this contract, option and all, is in the range of $27 million.

11:53 a.m.: That will be it on my end for the day. Chuck Finder will have updates on this from Bradenton, including comments from Neal Huntington and, much later, McLouth. He also will be updating on the first full-squad workout.


Posted Feb 17 2009, 07:17 AM by Dejan Kovacevic

Comments

Bucco51 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 7:25 AM

good thing Nate he mostly deserves this after the year he had

Iceman wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 7:28 AM

Fantastic!

Now i'm anxious to hear the specifics...

48jj wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 7:30 AM

Wow, I was just on the blog 10 minutes ago and jumped back over here to find this breaking news!

DK, are you on call 24 hours a day for Pirates news?

irate fan wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 7:31 AM

That's the best news I've heard all day. It will be interesting to see the details.

Kragbax wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 7:33 AM

Wow! What a great surprise! Totally unexpected, really. Nice to know the PBC management did the right thing this offseason in regards to it's young players, even if it took a while to get it done. I guess the old saying rings true in this case, it ain't over...

Now we can focus on baseball.

jersey joe wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 7:37 AM

I am guessing a touch of reality finally took hold.  I am sure he is now a rich man.  way better to have it today and feel at ease than to go into that meeting knowing you have ended your future with the team that gave you the chance.

DMAC, PLENTY OF HOPE, IRATE, sure eaases our rememberanceto our gathering conversation.

Even if Nate has topped out early and he is a lifetime .290 with pop, he has the hustler monogram that puts him on any team.

JAL wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 7:40 AM

It the Yogi saying--"It ain't over until it is over"--works for games and negotiations

Well, I am not going to redo the morning links so anyone who wants to look at the morning links go here:

community.post-gazette.com/.../morning-links-the-big-day.aspx

JAL wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 7:41 AM

Krag

We had the same thought about it ain't over :)

pattonbb wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 7:42 AM

Very encouraging news. Can't wait to see the details of the deal. Congrats to Nate.

Drew71 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 7:48 AM

Terrible news.

Just kidding!  Glad to see it.

jersey joe wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 7:49 AM

DREW, funny guy

Drew71 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 7:53 AM

JJ - somebody had to be the naysayer.  I volunteered, just to make if feel like the normal asylum.  

But it's seriously a good strategy, even if they don't "hit" on every one of the young guys they lock up.

JosePagan wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 7:53 AM

Good morning!

Well, this is a piece of news! I was going to go back and count the posts where the PBC management has been reviled for their failure to sign McLouth, but that would be like counting the proverbial hairs on one's head (no offense).

I am wondering here kids that maybe, just maybe, the Plan is a real and functioning thing. That McLouth failing to sign earlier was simply a matter of not coming to an agreement - in any negotiation it does indeed take two to tango - I am not sure which said gave or took here but the point is that since an agreement was reached BOTH sides apparently gave and took.

That is a good thing.

My son has been known to say: "Small, consistent effort." when talking about reaching a goal. I think a lot of folks here want to see the big splashy FA signing or the volcanic eruption indicating the "turning point" for this organization.

There won't be one.

What I do think, though is that we will look back on this off-season and say: " You know, it all started to jell right about here."

I hope.

Jose

Drew71 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 8:00 AM

Jose - IMO you're right re: plan.  FO has a strategy.  The next thing we need to see and evaluate is execution, especially of talent acquisition and evaluation.  Too early to tell yet on that front.  But following on news like Nate's, I'll be an optimist re: execution and give the suits their due on a nice move.

JAL wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 8:05 AM

Drew

Nice job but I am sure some real naysayer will be along before the day is done.  I have maintained that if the pirates win the World Series in 7 games someone will complain that they didn't sweep it in 4 :)

JosePagan wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 8:06 AM

@ Drew71: Thanks. Maybe Nate needed to see what some of the more prominent FA's were signing for and brought his price down. Maybe the PBC brought their price up. We will never really know for sure.

The point is for me, if the PBC wanted to do this on the cheap then they would have opted for arbitration and quietly traded him later this year.

It is becoming more apparent to me that they ARE stocking the system. If they happen to get top-heavy with outfield talent, then use that depth to trade for areas where they are weak (infield/pitching).

These next two seasons are shaping up to be very interesting from that aspect: the development of current prospects and the acquisition of new ones.

Jose

TripleG wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 8:08 AM

Wow!  Didn't see that coming.  It is indeed a great day.  So if my optimism is well placed and we are on the way to building THE winning Pirates team, today's news will be a key factor.

Now let me just sit here and soak that all in a minute....

Arriba Wilver wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 8:10 AM

Great news.  I'm not surprised at all that they settled, but I bought into the idea that the long term was off the table.  It's a good move.

KMRempel22 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 8:11 AM

Cool beans!!

It's 8:10 and our local radio station is still reporting that Nate is heading to arbitration today.  I'm giving them one more shot in a few minutes to tap into Dejan's breaking news karma and get it right before I give them a call.

I like this news on a cold but sunny February morning!

Iceman wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 8:18 AM

This management team is clearly better then the previous administration(s).  They seem to have a plan and and actually stick to it.

Locking up all the young guys for several years and refraining from signing a bunch of middling veterans hoping to catch lightning in a bottle is a very sound strategy.

I am slowly starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel.

QUICK!!  I need my meds....

Ya'Zhynka wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 8:21 AM

Much better to spend this money on Nate rather than Bobby Abreu, Adam Dunn, or Pedro Martinez. Congratulations to Huntington and Coonelly.

TripleG wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 8:26 AM

I was pouring through JAL's links and just read (I think at Jen Langosch's blog) that Morgan and Monroe were impresses with Pedro Alvarez smashing some balls into the parking lot.  

Nice.

Capn wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 8:26 AM

Hi, all.  Before I run off to my day's activities, I had to jump on this band wagon of shock and approval.  I also did not see this coming and was sure that it wasn't going to work out well.  Just goes to show you.  Good work all around.

uglyken wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 8:27 AM

Good morning everyone.

Obviously, this is excellent news. Their off-season goals as far as signings have turned out rather successful. It was always far more important to sign Ryan, Paul, and Nate than it was to sign one of those over-the-hill & overpriced FAs.

I suspect that the suddenly falling salaries of the FAs may have loosened Nate’s demands enough for the PBC to bridge the remaining $$ gap.

diehard wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 8:33 AM

Definitely encouraging.  Personally, I think the front office has been pretty wise in its spending thus far.  This would be the "locking up the core" stage that may bring the bigger singings in future off seasons.

JHadar wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 8:44 AM

Waking up to good news on the prairie.  Not often do I get to say "I told you so", but check yesterday morning, and I kind of halfway maybe predicted a last minute deal.  ;-}

Twenty-eight and sunny, we'll take it in Iowa -- and Nate for three years, I think all of us will take that.  So far, the Front Office has done pretty much what they've said they're going to do.

Now DK has hinted about a Grabow trade.  Let the speculation begin.  For who, what need can be filled at the expense of the bullpen.  Do they have a legitimate shot at Ohman.  Inquiring minds want to know.

JHadar wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 8:55 AM

DK -- Are you up and about or working wounded?

Duke84 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:01 AM

So now that he's signed pen to paper, can we quit calling him McClouth?  

JAL wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:02 AM

Here is another short piece on Mclouth--nothing new over what DK posted but good to see it spreading around

www.ldnews.com/.../ci_11721610

JosePagan wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:09 AM

@ JHadar: I am willing to go out on  a limb and say that Morgan would be included as a sweetner to the deal.

Hinske plays left until mid summer if McCutchen does not make the team out of ST, otherwise if he does, they platoon.

I think if Moss's knee is as good as advertised and McCutchen makes a splash, then N Morgan becomes superfluous.

Jose

Dejan Kovacevic wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:09 AM

I can stand up by the laptop for about 10-15 minutes at a time, so hardly out of the woods. But feeling somewhat better over the past 3-4 days, and MRI yesterday confirmed original diagnosis of herniated disk compressing a nerve. Will be addressed Thursday.

BleedBlackAndGold wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:11 AM

Happy days are (almost) here again.

Congrats Nate and NH on appeasing the fan base...

Now lets get some consistancy in thi play of the team as a whole (and hopefully its not consistantly bad) and we just may have something going on in the 'burgh.

Oh, G'mornin' Asylum-mates. Cratchett is going to be late today, she was thrown into the deal that Nate got, somethin' about 'personal trainer' or 'massage tech' or something like that. Who knows.

BobDH wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:16 AM

The D'Backs are looking at a sign and trade for Juan Cruz.  I wonder if the Buc's are involved in that?

JAL wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:17 AM

Dejan

I hope they address it well Thursday--and I am sure that you hope so too.  Thanks for keeping us up to date with big news

Thundercrack wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:19 AM

This is very good news.  I am surprised they reached a multi year deal.  It wouldn't have surprised me if they reached a compromise for this year before the FA hearing.

I guess this means all the revenue won't be kept hostage by B.Nutting.

BobinFranklinPark wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:22 AM

Great news on the McLouth signing!! Looks like "The Plan" is coming together with Nate, Doumit, Maholm, Snell etc now signed to long term deals.  Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel after all.

Hey, it's Spring.  Hope springs eternal and all that.

DK - continued best wishes with your disk issues.  Good luck on Thursday.  I've been there and I feel yourpain!

DMac wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:26 AM

Good Morning everyone!

WooHoohoo!  What a great thing to wake up and turn the computer on to read!

I'm very glad that this was able to get done...Awesome.  Totally.  ;-)

Drew71 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:30 AM

DK - Best wishes Thurs.

JAL - still no naysayers!  Wow...drug tests all around.  As you posted earlier, it's a long day, give it time.

Asylum - signing off, heading for airports for a couple of days.  Best to all on what is turning out to be a great day for our favorite club to love or hate (or both)

CullenH wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:32 AM

WOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

@ Jose

No way Cutch is platooning with anyone when he gets here.

russell would never do that.

LarryZ wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:37 AM

Too crazy to research this, but does anyone have numbers for McLouth before and after the Bay/Nady trades in 2008?

Many thanks!

jersey joe wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:42 AM

Please lets not jinx our fortune into misfortune.

Iceman wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:44 AM

DK,

Get well soon!!

Iceman wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:46 AM

LarryZ,

You can never be "Too crazy" here  :)

bjohnson921 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:50 AM

WooHoo!  Wonderful to see the Bucco FO accomplishing what they set out to do and locking in this core.

I want to throw a new topic into the ring... Jim Sullivan emailed the Pirates email list this morning with an interesting exchange he had yesterday with NH concerning Minky:

"When Neal was talking to three or four other fans, I asked if Doug M. had officially changed Agents. When the GM answered in the affirmative,  then followed up by asking if the Agent had, in fact, called Neal.  With some hesitation, the GM said "yes". I then stopped and said that was my last question."

Does anyone see this as meaning the Bucs might have a spot for him?  At least thinking about it?

BobDH wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:51 AM

DK -

Have you been referred to a Physical Therapist or Chiropractor yet?

Baseball:  If Grabow is to be traded, then what could the FO be looking for in return?

Also,  McLouth's signing is great news on soooooo so many levels!

Bob

egscoach wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:51 AM

Great news indeed.  3 young players the FO target after the season ended.  3 young players signed by the FO.  Great job by the FO.

I am hopeful this sends a message to the other young guys as they work their way from being a rookie to arb eligible.  Perform and the Pirates will reward you.

Finally!!!

WhyStanBelinda wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 9:56 AM

The best management team in baseball strikes again!

For terms, I'm going to guess the deal will be up to about $30 million once incentives are factored in.  

jersey joe wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:00 AM

Stanley, I was thinking this morning that this deal will bring you out and about.

Please elaborate on your numbers?  

egscoach wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:00 AM

@yaz,  Could not agree more.  Pass on Dunn and Abreu.  Spend the money here. With one exception.  I'm not advocating going after Pedro.  IMO I don't think he has anything left.  But an experienced SP would look nice in the rotation.  Not sold on Snell and Gorzo...yet.

Does anybody else get the feeling that the FO has their plan and just sent a message to the fan base:  We have a plan, we will make the plan work, stick with us and you shall be rewarded?

I have my fingers crossed.

WhyStanBelinda wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:01 AM

On another note, can we call Pedro Alvarez "big splash" (in english or spanish) for where the ball should end up?

Robbiesdad wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:03 AM

This also leads me to believe that the front office has completely changed their minds about a long-term deal for Adam LaRoche (WHOOPEEEE!!!).  If this could turn around and get worked out after seeming so unlikely, you'd think they could have done the same with # 25 last year when things fell apart...but they didn't.  And Mgmt. doesn't seem to be inclined to offer a multi-year deal for him now.  So, again, I say, "WHOOPEEEE!!!!!"

JAL wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:04 AM

Larry

Keep in mind that before the trade was 4 months and after only two

B--22 HR  A--4 HR

B-72 RBI  A-- 22 RBI

Not going to calculate BA but he hit .330 in April, .279 in May, .214 in June, .277 in July, .226 in August, and .309 in September

Sammy Khalifa wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:04 AM

Man, it's awfully noisy in here this morning?

Okay, I'll be the one to toss a little cold water on the party.  Honestly, I'm not sure I get the reactions.  I mean, I'm happy that Nate has security in case he runs through a fence or gets plunked by an errant fastball - but he wasn't going anywhere anyway.

The Pirates owned Nate for this year and two more.  Whether he went through arbitration or played under a contract, he was going to be a Bucco unless we traded him.

This was largely about money.  The Pirates remove the uncertainty of what an arbitration panel would award Nate over each of the next three years in return for an option to pay him a lot of money to stay here one more year past arbitration.  But along with removing the uncertainty of how his salary would rise in arbitration, the Pirates commited to paying Nate a lot of cash for this year and at least two more, regardless of whether he hits his way out of a paper bagover the course of the contract.  What this does not do is alter, substantially, whether Nate would have been here or not - he wasn't going anywhere unless we chose to move him.

There is, in fact, an argument to be made, i think,  that if you are cheering because this keeps Nate here - it actually may do the opposite.  Unless there is a no-trade clause in the contract - which is not likely - then this fiscal certainty along with the 4th year option makes Nate much more marketable if he performs up to expectations and in a year or two, we end up with a surplus of outfielders.  Ouch.

That having been said - someone pass me a beverage - I'm more than happy to toast while the toasting is good!  Cheers, Nate!

jersey joe wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:04 AM

Larry Z until the stat men get to your question I think you will find that nate was up and down irrelavent to the trades.  hit both ways before and after.  I think

JBurns wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:13 AM

@ Stan

I think 30 is way too high.  I'll say $17M after incentives with the club option for around $8M in 2012.

jersey joe wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:16 AM

Whystanley, I think you have one there!!

                  BIG SPLASH

Do we start the chant before he hits his first into the water or does this name sit in  wait??

Maybe the biggest question of the day

DMac wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:16 AM

@egs...I definitely have that feeling.  It's nice to see the results have been positive for the most part, at least as far as signings have gone this off-season.   They've signed the core guys, and all to long-term deals...how cool is that?

Lee Tunnell wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:17 AM

Ap reports: 3 years, 15.75M, club option in year 4.

sports.espn.go.com/.../story

JAL wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:20 AM

DK just put this on the up on the top of the page

Total guaranteed money for the contract is $15.75 million.

Iceman wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:21 AM

Sammy,

Excellent post, you could be right and if Nate performs and they decide to trade him, at least now they have a better bargaining chip with a guaranteed contract.

I personally am gaining faith in management...

jersey joe wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:21 AM

Thinking about a splash, I bet somewheres there is a layout of willies homeruns and how far they all were projected to go and I wonder how many Willie would have hit into the river had he played his games here?

jersey joe wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:27 AM

So you both are high and by earlier reports would be said as big time apart  sure makes you wonder why

LarryZ wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:33 AM

JAL - thanks for the info.  Seems like the team as a whole was awful during August 2008.

DMac wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:36 AM

@Larry Z...they had a rough August schedule, in addition to adjusting to the lineup changes after the trades.  

egscoach wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:37 AM

DMac

 I concur.  Very cool!  I was waiting for negative reaction here but none was forthcoming.  Went to the Pirates website, surely to find the negative spin.  None found.  I don't think those guys are awake yet  

 Even as Sammy suggested, this was about money.  So what.  This give Nate security, the Pirates security and obviously makes the fans happy.  Great move.

 To take it a step further, is this starting to remove a small portion of the "cheap" tag placed on our owner.  Many will point to the Ramirez dump.  I think that was before Bob took over as majority owner.  He did give his blessing to Morris and claims he told Littlefield to draft some hot shot catcher.  Can't remember his name.

Either way, it appears that since Nutting really does not know squat about baseball, he has entrusted his FO to take care of business.

I like where this is heading.  Finally!

WhyStanBelinda wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:41 AM

Not getting ahead of anything, but I figure we wait until after Pedro's gets called up and hits a few out there. Big Splash seems like a good nickname for him.  Even his critics can call him "BS".  

If Pedro does well, I say we hire David Price as a regional scout after his playing days.

Speaking of which, and JJ can add, but with the All-Star HR contest, I find it hard to believe that it can alter your swing permanently.  Those around Philadelphia can attest that Abreu is a head case.  A-roid and Bonds stated that was the reasons both of them sat out of the competition. If anything I think that supports their shallowness.  

Great Job Nate.  

Iceman wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:43 AM

Egscoach,

I'm with you.  I am starting to definetly gain confidence in this organization.

Of course that could be the start of Spring Training disorder....NURSE!!!

Cave Bonifield wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:44 AM

Will probably pay out something to the tune of :

3.4   in 09

5.2  in 10

8.6  in 11    plus buyout

WhyStanBelinda wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:46 AM

JJ- I figured Nate would get ~3 this year, 5 next, and 6.5 in 2011, with an option of 9 in 12 (first free agent year).  The other 7 million would be for incentives...

I wonder if it is legal via the union to have a bonus based on Team performance?

WhyStanBelinda wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:47 AM

JJ- I was equating Nate with Markaksis in Baltimore, who gave up his free agency to say in B-more.  Nick's swing is tailor made for Fenway and Camden Yards.  

egscoach wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:47 AM

Ice,

 Yeah I'm worried that my giddiness is clouded as well by the start of spring training.  But it sure does have a different feeling than previous years.

 I'll keep my jacket handy.

JHadar wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:50 AM

egscoach -- <<  To take it a step further, is this starting to remove a small portion of the "cheap" tag placed on our owner. >>

Exactly.  We knew that Nate was going to be here 3 more years, no matter what, unless traded.  What seems to be happening here is that Coonelly and Huntington are beginning to lock down that core of players that will be the future of the Pirates, and the sigh of relief is because they are showing that while they drive a hard bargain, they do move toward compromise when the situation demands it.  Nate gets to play without the potential bitterness, and we have hope that they will follow through when the more expensive part of the plan kicks in.  Meanwhile we keep putting together the many many broken pieces of the organization.  

The focus shifts now to spring training, and what will happen before opening day.  I still think that there are some opportunities out there to get incrementally better before the season starts, or right after it starts.

JAL wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 10:54 AM

Larry

Pretty much--they scored 82 runs in August--next lowest month was April with 116;  team BA was .238 in August--next lowest April at .241,  surprisingly, the staff ERA was lower in August than it was in June or July at 5.15

junior ortiz wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 11:07 AM

Does this mean there might be an effort to get Adam LaRoche signed long-term at mid-season?  That was regarded as not happening as well.  I think they'll at least pick up the phone and try before any trade.  

It might depend on how he's doing.  I know they want to restock the farm system.  If LaRoche (and Sanchez) are doing really well and the team isn't, then I think they're probably gone.  They did a good job on waiting to deal Bay and Nady until their value was high.  Bay was coming off a bad year in 2007 (but had turned it around last year) and they dealt Nady in the middle of his best year.

I have to think on some level that getting Andy LaRoche made them think Adam LaRoche would sign for a little less than he might get otherwise to stay in Pittsburgh.  In a world where 29-year old Adam Dunn gets 2 years, $20 million when 36 year old Raul Ibanez got 3 years, $31.5 million, it's hard to guess a player's real value.  I think the whole key will be price.  Buy low and sell high.  If the trade value is really high on LaRoche (or Sanchez or Wilson), then they'll probably go.  If they can keep LaRoche long-term at a good value compared to what comparable players are getting, then they'll try and extend him.  

Another likely option is that this is about 2011 and 2012 and LaRoche (and Sanchez and Wilson) are just not part of that plan and getting more prospects in deals is more important.  

I keep flashing back to the Pirates of 1985-87 and all the deals they made to get prospects, many of which wound up on the 1990-92 teams.  The current Pirates just don't have that many veterans to deal.  

Thundercrack wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 11:15 AM

Sounds like a great deal for the club (and Nate).  Even if his production stays the same or he regresses, $6.5mil in 2011 isn't going to cripple the club.

I just get the feeling that unless Freddie Sanchez contends for batting titles in the next few years, they will look to go with a younger , cheaper replacement.

leadoff wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 11:24 AM

One thing about the PBC you never know what they are up to.

I too agree that Nate signing is a great sign of things to come.

I was watching tv on Sunday Night and Smizik was talking about Nate, his opionion is that the after Bay, Naty trades that we saw the real Nate, since he doesn't know baseball, I will take Nate and I beieve he can be good all year if he is rested proplerly.

As far as Adam LaRoach and a long term contract are concerned, his contract issue is a lot more money than I think the PBC wants to spend.

I think the Pirates have shown that they have been quite busy in the off season, signing their own. I believe at this stage of the Pirate plans, they are not in a just build the franchise over the winter mode, they have been busy all year, check it out.

leadoff wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 11:27 AM

@Thunder-

I just get the feeling that unless Freddie Sanchez contends for batting titles in the next few years, they will look to go with a younger , cheaper replacement.

I believe that if Freddie plays with 2 eyes and 2 arms, I am going out on a limb here, but I think he may play better.

DMac wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 11:33 AM

I think there's more concern about Adam's performance in respect to a long-term deal with him.  He needs to prove he can hit in April.  They were trying to get a multi-year deal last off-season, but it never came through.  We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.

TheWu420 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 11:36 AM

Just a question if anyone could help me out I'd appreciate it....It always seems that the Pirates backload their contracts with larger amounts of money thus the 10+ million for a club option....has there ever been cases of contracts that are actually front loaded where say they pay 8 million this year and then decrease with a lower club option for the team?  It would just seem to make more sense since it seems like the Pirates haven't spent much money in the offseason that they could pay him more upfront and control his rights longer for a smaller portion of money?  Because now we will have Maholm, Doumit, and Nate's contracts expiring at the same time with large club options that it seems highly unlikely the team would ever pick up....

TheWu420 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 11:36 AM

Just a question if anyone could help me out I'd appreciate it....It always seems that the Pirates backload their contracts with larger amounts of money thus the 10+ million for a club option....has there ever been cases of contracts that are actually front loaded where say they pay 8 million this year and then decrease with a lower club option for the team?  It would just seem to make more sense since it seems like the Pirates haven't spent much money in the offseason that they could pay him more upfront and control his rights longer for a smaller portion of money?  Because now we will have Maholm, Doumit, and Nate's contracts expiring at the same time with large club options that it seems highly unlikely the team would ever pick up....

Forbes Field Memories wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 11:45 AM

DK - Get well soon & follow Nurse Cratchetts orders!!

BK - Welcome back!!  I hope things have started to turn around for you!

JAL wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 11:47 AM

Wu420

This might give you some insight into your question

statspeak.net/.../why-arent-free-agent-contracts-front-loaded.html

egscoach wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 11:49 AM

Concerning Adam Laroche:  I can see the Pirates attempting to work something out with him.  Say for three years/$30.  Alot of money yes, but who do the Pirates have in their system to take over at 1B next year?  They already said Alvarez is staying put.  Don't know if I am sold on Pearce.  Is Moss or Doumit a potential answer?  I dont see a trade of LaRoche bringing back anything than what we already have.

I guess we will find out soon enough if our FO has Adam in their future plans.

JAL wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 11:52 AM

Dejan

You are doing a great job keeping the updates on the contact coming.  We might have to label you the Hines Ward of reporters--something big happens and you play despite injury :)

TheWu420 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 11:52 AM

Ah thank you JAL just always was curious about that and figured since the Pirates seem like they would have money to spend it would be a thought but either way I'm happy nate is here for these 3 years

TheWu420 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 11:52 AM

Ah thank you JAL just always was curious about that and figured since the Pirates seem like they would have money to spend it would be a thought but either way I'm happy nate is here for these 3 years

JAL wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 11:53 AM

Nice to an agent giving credit to executive.  Will wonders never cease?

egscoach wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 11:54 AM

Wu420,

 Picking up those large options.  Lets just say the Pirates progress this year, 500ish in 2010 and borderline contention in 2011.  I don't know about you, but that scenrio would get my butt back into PNC Park on a more regular basis.

If management's plan is to contend soon and the Pirates are actually contending, can you see 25,000-30,000 at PNC on a non bobblehead/fireworks night?  I can.  You put a good product on the field, the average fan will return.  

That would give Nutting the money to kick in the options if they deserve it.

JAL wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 11:55 AM

Wu240

3 years and club option on the 4th.  Nate can't go anywhere wityhout the Pirates agreeing.

JAL wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 11:57 AM

Now off for the afternoon--have a 1:30 speech downtown to tell about 100 people how Washington works--or doesn't work.  

Back late this afternoon.

Carry on the discussion.

JAL wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 11:58 AM

DK has now added his final info on the contract.  

Out for now.

madturk2008 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 12:02 PM

@Sammy Khalifa wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal

on Feb 17, 2009 10:04 AM

Man, it's awfully noisy in here this morning?

____________

I agree with you post we did not buy anything that we would not have had in the first place other than a one year option in his first year of FA just like the others we have signed.  Hope this does not lead to another build year in 4 to 5 years from now.

With that said it's nice to see some of these guys signed but I will go back to my comments from months ago and say what did we really buy other then the Arbit years?

Now if each player lives up to the contract that will be good if they do not then we are paying for failure once again. There should be a buy out option after each year for the management only and not for the player.  That would ensure a better effort every year by the players.

Not trying to be a bummer here just looking ahead.

Demery44 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 12:04 PM

Now that Nate is locked up, let's get the Andy LaRoche deal done.

PI Stingray wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 12:06 PM

Sorry I'm a little late getting the news over here, but great news indeed! This signing along with Doumit and Maholm, sends a message to all the Pirates young players that if you play hard and put up good numbers, the PBC will reward you with a very fair long-term contract. It will be the carrot on the stick to those guys who might need the motivation. Looks as if the Bucs were very determined that these 3 cornerstones be locked up thru their arbitration years and then some. One small step for the Bucs this year, one giant leap in building a contender......

TheWu420 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 12:22 PM

Don't get me wrong I'm glad hes signed long term I just do not see the Pirates picking up the club option for any reason....maybe I'll be wrong 4 years from now but who knows anyways its a great signing and I hope Nate can continue to put up those numbers

DMac wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 12:24 PM

Awesome, awesome, awesome!

It's so great to hear FC was involved and intent on keeping the relationship good and got that long-term deal.  Okay, I feel better now...I'll admit I was concerned this was going to a hearing just on principle  This is just fantastic to hear it came off like this.  (Sorry, I'm a bit of a dork sometimes  ;-)

DK...thanks for keeping the updates coming today. Now, go take it easy, though I'm sure it's frustrating not being able to do too much.  

marty34156 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 12:30 PM

Setting in school right now got on here and saw this. Very pleasently srprised by this deal. I thought talks of a long-term deal between Bucs and Nate, but it is good to see that Nate, Ryan, and Paul have all been signed long-term hopefully its a sign of things to come. And hopefully they are Matt Capps not Ian Snell in that they get a big contract and will continue to perform like Capps not drop off like Snell.

marty34156 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 12:33 PM

@JAL

Lol DK= the Hines Ward of reporters.

TheWu420 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 12:41 PM

please dont insult DK with that comment unlike hines ward I haven't heard DK whining or complaining once....

BleedBlackAndGold wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 12:45 PM

L8R DK, thanks for the updates.

Shane wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 12:47 PM

Great news on Nate. I really didn't want to see him have to go to arbitration.

Pgh_fan_in_NH wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 1:01 PM

***************BREAKING NEWS*********************

This just in:

The handshake in the lobby occurred one minute after the official arbitrary deadline. As a result Note will not sign the contract and  will disappear for 3 months, or until he gains 30 lbs and then come back and sign a new contract worth about the same as this one.

Pirata13 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 1:23 PM

WOO-HOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

JosePagan wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 1:25 PM

I appreciate that this only confirms the obvious in that Nate would have been a Pirate during the period he just signed for, but as has been noted above this brings cost certainty and also "pyschological stability" if you will.

What I mean by that is the players will, I beleieve feel more comfortable with PBC management in that the FO is demonstrating that they are going to reward performance and not string people along season to season in the hopes of getting a slightly lower price.

Does this mean Nate could be traded? Sure. But any player under contract could be traded. At least if he is traded, the contract and the financial security that contract brings goes along with him.

The other players on the team will notice this and, hopefully down the line, future free agents will notice that too.

Perhaps this is one of those little pieces that will make Pittsburgh a destination once again for FA's...

Jose

TripleG wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 1:25 PM

I know we had Nate sewn up for 3 years, but there's something to be said for getting these contract things out of the way so the guys can concentrate on playing ball.  

I saw a recent Ryan Braun interview on MLB Network and Braun said that getting the contract done allowed him to relax and just concentrate on playing.

DMac wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 1:29 PM

@Jose...I completely agree.  The fact that he was going to be a Pirate unless traded was understood, regardless if this deal got done or not.  I definitely think it sends a message that there is more commitment from management to keep it's good players.  I don't think it can be viewed as anything but a positive, in that respect.

Cave Bonifield wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 1:35 PM

I am one who is not to quick to remove the cheap label from ownership.  All that they have done is taken an element of risk out of part of their near term labor costs.  They now know exactly what the players who they have identified as most marketable will cost them during their arb years.  They are locking these guys in during a down cycle for FA's which is smart economics.  Of course, they have also rolled the dice on injuries or non performance.

I am more willing to give them credit for doing a better job of forward planning than for opening up the wallet in any meaningful way.

Sammy Khalifa wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 1:53 PM

@GGG  " I saw a recent Ryan Braun interview on MLB Network and Braun said that getting the contract done allowed him to relax and just concentrate on playing."

------

Do you think Retief Goosen concentrated more or less this weekend, knowing that he could lose several hundred thousand if didn't make that birdie putt on 18 to finish third instead of fourth at Pebble Beach?

I'm just saying ...

Cave Bonifield wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 1:59 PM

Sammy

Is he any relation to Greg Goosen, ex Mets phenom went bust?

TripleG wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 2:04 PM

@Sammy  - I think that if you are worried about employment it affects your productivity.  I'm not into golf, but with your example I'd say that if there was no chance of loss of money the golfer would be more relaxed while playing.

You've heard ball plalyers describe trying to do too much and force things.  That happens a lot when you're worried about proving something within a certain period of time.  Remove the worry about where you will be playing and I believe it stands to reason that you would be more relaxed... Ryan Braun agrees with me... er, or I agree with him. :-)

JosePagan wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 2:06 PM

@ Cave: I am not planning the World Series Parade Route as a result of this signing, nor am I positing that this means that a New Era Of Free Spending has been entered by the PBC.

It is what it is: A good step in the right direction that sets a positive tone (for a change) regarding the actions of the FO and the franchise.

I am not unsympathetic to your cynicism regarding the spending habits here, but (and this is a big one) it seems that at least incremental progress is being made here and if the franchise were really being cheap they would have taken Nate to arbitration and tried to stick it to him, along with Doumit and Maholm.

If this were a one-off signing I would agree more with your view, but in aggregate the PBC is commiting some large dineros on multiple contracts simply to achieve "cost certainty" only.

Respectfully,

Jose

JosePagan wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 2:30 PM

Just to clarify my post - I should have written that I don't believe the PBC is committing large dineros to achieve "cost-certainty" only. It is part, but not all of the picture.

Sorry for the miscommunication.

Jose

JHadar wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 2:45 PM

This one actually surprised me:

"In terms of hard feelings, we weren't the ones putting Jack's name out," Huntington said. "We weren't the ones aggressively shopping Jack. We were listening when people came to us as they were trying to fill their shortstop needs.

From:

pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

In JAL's morning links.

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 2:50 PM

McLouth's signing to this extension is great, great news. - For Nate and for Pirate fans who enjoy watching good baseball players.

I bet Bob Nutting is just sick though now knowing he will have to pay this kind of money to a good baseball player instead of the league minimum to some scrub.

;-)

JosePagan wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 2:55 PM

@ NH: "What sweet sounds would soothe thy savage breast?"

No offense, my young friend  (if I dare say so), but I knew that I could count on you to find cloud to obscure the silver lining!

How are things in Hostage Central today?

Respectfully,

Jose

mario1025 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 2:56 PM

I posted this on the last thread but don't know if anyone saw it because the new thread about McLouth signing was posted -

I've been following the blog since its inception but haven't posted. I just felt the need to vent about the Jason Bay article linked in today's Morning Links. The writer, Sean McAdam, refers to Pittsburgh as a city where baseball doesn't matter. I couldn't disagree more and I e-mailed Sean to tell him my feelings. Reading this blog every day reaffirms my belief that baseball does matter in Pittsburgh, and that if we could ever see a playoff game in PNC Park, there wouldn't be a better atmosphere in the sport.

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 3:01 PM

Hi Jose,

You know me, I can't let a moment pass without taking a shot at my good friend Bob Nutting.

Things are well thanks for asking. On the road all week. I hate it when work interferes with my PBC blogging resposibilities.

How's things in Jose's world today?

JHadar wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 3:03 PM

NH -- C'mon, Nutting called them the best management team in sports when they spent $6 million on Alvarez, now they've gone and committed somewhere between $15 and $26 million of his money, he ought to be downright ecstatic.  

The problem all along was that McLatchy and Littlefield just weren't competent enough to spend his money.  He's really a very generous soul when you get right down to brass tacks.

Oh, ;-}

JHadar wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 3:06 PM

Hey Mario, you did it again -- there's a new thread, but before we all march over to the new place, welcome aboard.

NuttingHostage wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 3:12 PM

JHadar,

You made me LAMC.

;-)

JosePagan wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 3:32 PM

@ NH: Doing well sir, thank you for asking!

I knew I could count on you to do your best to keep the FO types on their toes.

Jose

JAL wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 3:48 PM

Ants marching==========================

New thread from Chuck

frustrated_314 wrote re: Pirates, McLouth reach long-term deal
on Tue, Feb 17 2009 7:39 PM

Yes! Signing Nate is indeed great news! It's not just that he will be here for at least 3 ,maybe 4 more years - but also that as Pirate fans, we actually appear to have management that has moved to give us a consistent core of pretty decent players who we can identify with as being Pirates.  This lack of identification of players with the team has been a major consequence of free agency combined with previous management that was only interested in making money by giving away good players and renting clowns masquerading as major leaguers year after year. For this reason, I'm definitely in favor of  signing Adam to a multiyear contract.