Morning links: Building a bench

At times like these, with sleet and snow and ice and dark of night, it's comforting to realize that it's only:

16 DAYS UNTIL PITCHERS AND CATCHERS!!!

How could Sean Casey not be a good guy.  He's one of ours.

And like it or not, Dejan, it's that essential "niceness" out in Western PA that gives it the midwestern soul.  There's just an air of civility and humility that you _don't_ get on the East Coast.  Also, life doesn't feel as rushed in Pittsburgh as it does out East.

The number one thing that makes Pittsburgh great, in my book, is the people.  You won't find better people anywhere.  And you can take us anywhere in the country, uproot us and transplant us anywhere, and we'll STILL be Pittsburghers, and proud of it.

And Pittsburgh really does have the best stadium in baseball, if not all of professional sports. (There.  Brought it back to baseball. *G*)

Not going to lie, folks, I believe TBB called a Eric Hinske signing. I think it would be a terrific move. He's only 31, and while he hits from the left side, he's a terrific power bat option. Now only if management would listen to us about Pedro...

What a stupid move signing Hinske would be. I have nothing against him, personally. But setting aside the most obvious implication -that NH is cutting off the team's nose in spite of its face to prove he's not going to "give in" and sign DD- who of our young Buc(k)s now will lose at-bats to give playing time to this below average wonder at both the plate and in the field? Both the fans and the club get to miss out because NH just HAD to prove a point. Stupid!

I have as others read the DD report of saying he wants to come back, I am not convinced the earlier reports of the process that DD chose to take for a new assignment that was not in the plans for him here has been taken.

I do not dispute that he has said publicly  to some that he now wants to come back.  I think if he does not come back it is of his own making, a tactical error.

If this fellow is signed and that means the end of DD and everyone is in agreement that he is an upgrade over the play of DD, then has not the management done what they said they would do--upgrade.

I like DD sorry to see if he is gone, but he is the one who wanted to open the door.

Dejan, the link to Smizik's article is the one about Gonzalez, not about Kerrigan.

JJ,

Well, in hindsight, maybe DD might have had "slightly" better odds of having been offered a contract if he had never aspired to be a starter somewhere. But DD wouldn't be DD if he didn't have high expectations for himself, heading into the off-season. No, I don't think he could have approached matters any differently. And yet, when he saw how things were shaking out, he accepted reality and changed his tune well within enough time. NH just never wanted him back. Some other posters have speculated that there's something not being said about DD. I've got my own suspicions about this whole episode (see above post). What we do know, is that what WAS being said by NH all along ("we'd like to have Doug back"), has been a two-faced crock of you-know-what.

If NH turns out to be the kind of GM that puts his own image above the interests of the club, our 16 year journey through darkness might yet not be over...

TBB,

I think I recall that you did talk about Hinske. Welp, I'm not happy about who we're NOT signing. But if Hinske does, indeed, become a Pirate, he then becomes one of "our boys." If so, I hope you're proved to be 100% correct about him. Remind us again, during the season.

Alright. Good night folks. By the time I check back in, we'll probably know for sure about a H$inske signing.

Count me in with a big thumbs-up on the prospective Hinske signing.

JL - If he signs, as the chairman of the censorship board, I must tell you that you will have one week to air out about not re-signing Doug after which you must stop or take your toys and join you-know-who in the Littlefield wing!!

Just kidding, JL! In the name of free speech, I crack these tacky jokes once in awhile ...

This is an absolutely ridiculous signing, if the Hinske deal does indeed happen. Admittedly I don't know much about Hinske's leadership abilities, but I do know that he is awful against left-handed pitching and his defense is below average. The Pirates could bring back Mientkiewicz and sign Gonzalez and have two guys that are good defensively, good with the bat, and have proven leadership qualities. The fact that management has stated the bench will be changed on an almost yearly basis is even more of a reason to bring in Gonzalez and bring back Mientkiewicz, two guys that are a bit long in the tooth. I can't think of two better guys to have on the bench, teaching the young guys how to be professional ball players, than Mientkiewicz and Gonzalez. If Hinske gets signed and both Mientkiewicz and Gonzalez are left for someone else to snatch up, Huntington could well be on his way to joining the ranks of Bonifay and Littlefield in terms of free-agent acquisitions.

@epmornsesh - "I do know that he is awful against left-handed pitching and his defense is below average."

Ep, Welcome to the Asylum as first-time poster! We're glad you're here.

You make good points above, about the leadership that both Doug and Gonzo could provide ... I guess, for me at this point, I'd rather have Hinske's 20 home runs, even if he sits against left-handers. Plus, it helps me to understand that he'd basically be a bench/platoon kind of guy not taking the more serious at-bats away from our youth.

Again, welcome ... from whence dost thou broadcast? Do you live near the Burgh? I live in Texas, moved here from Bedford, PA in 2000.

And with that, I'm heading for bed!

Thanks for the welcome Baywatch!

I'm living in Tucson, AZ but grew up mostly on the east coast. My family is from Wisconsin and I was born in Milwaukee, but the majority of my life I lived in the Philly area and then also in Maryland, about 20 minutes from D.C.

For some reason, when my dad was growing up in Wisconsin the Bucs became his favorite team and that rubbed off on me. He always has liked the underdog and for the past decade and a half, there hasn't been a greater underdog than the Bucs.

In regards to Hinske, I agree that the power would be nice, but at this point for the team I think that the leadership should be paramount. If we can have McCutchen and Tabata in spring training rubbing shoulders with Gonzalez and Mientkiewicz, I think that the future of the club would be better served without sacrificing anything this year.

THE OFFICIALLY UNOFFICIAL PBC BLOGS AND MLB LINKS:

Bucs Dugout--Pirates Close to Deal with Eric Hinske and Pirates Q+A in Royals Review and Luis Gonzalez: A Bad Fit for the Bench

http://www.bucsdugout.com/

WHYGAVS--Eric Hinske and The mystery free agent target is ... Luis Gonzalez? and The Rotation: Tom Gorzelanny

http://whygavs.com/

MVNPBC--Pirates talking to Hinske and Sean Casey Walking Away from MLB and Is there value in losing?

http://mvn.com/mlb/pirates/

Bucs Trade Winds--Free Agent Conclusion

http://www.bucstradewinds.net/

HYZDU Headquarters--Gonzo

http://hyzduhq.blogspot.com/

The 'Burgh Blues--Pirates to sign Eric Hinske

theburghblues.mlblogs.com

The Green Weenie--Bits and Pieces

www.oldbucs.blogspot.com

Morning Links part 3

Former pitcher Kuwata to study at Waseda University

mdn.mainichi.jp/.../20090128p2a00m0na013000c.html

Baseball: Cricket's Little Brother

bleacherreport.com/.../116148-baseball-crickets-little-brother

Cooperstown Calling

www.sports-central.org/.../cooperstown_calling.php

"Frank Coonelly and Neal Huntington have a shared that each facet of the roster, with some exceptions, is like planting annuals in the garden: You hope they look great for a year, you even hope they do a little to fertilize the soil for the future, but you know you will have to dig it all up again the following spring."

That's not building and likely will never result in a so-called championship caliber club as these guys have committed to ad nauseum.

That is what I call Nutting Ball. It is cobbling together a haphazard roster of low cost misfits simply to fill out a roster and play out the 162 game schedule as required by MLB.

Nothing more.

Just another piece of evidence that winning or fielding a competitive product on the field is far down the list of priorities of this owner and front office.

I look at the potential signing of Hinske as a rare positive from the PBC. I'd much prefer him coming off the bench in a pinch-hitting situation than Chris Gomez. Or filling in at 3B, 1B, RF, or LF on a Sunday day game to give a regular player a day off.

The only question I have is, given the compression we are seeing in player compensation, why not adapt to the market conditions and attempt to lock him in for 2 years? - At least a 1 year with a club option for a 2nd?

This one year deal stuff isn't building.

Hostage

I agree that Hinske looks better than some of the other names that were tossed around.  I am not privy to the  inner circle of the management but I see one possible scenario.  Hinske is seen as a holding pattern, not a building block.  Look at it this way, you have some player who not quite ready yet--say McCutch,  and Tabata--and you would rather see them playing regularly in the minors than sitting on the bench in majors.  You need to have a 25 man team so how do fill the spots?  Maybe sign a player who who add something in the position while the building blocks are sharpening their skills.  Hinske is not a star so sign him for a year the hope that in 2010 one or more of the building blocks is ready.  

That said, I could see a two year deal to increase flexibility.

JAL,

DK's comments above regarding Coinelly and Nuttingdone viewpoint on the bench and bullpen, and apparent lack of foresight or interest to take advantage of current market conditions is indicative of what I have believed all along, this owner and front office have no interest in building anything other than their own bank accounts.

I'm not saying you want to go around locking bench and bullpen players into long term deals, but I don't get, and strongly disagree that an effective course of action is to start from scratch year after year cobbling together whatever players you can find (Rivas, Gomez, Osoria, etc) to fill out the bench and bullpen.

This is a cost driven mentality and that is counter productive to building a winning organzation.

JAL,

Too bad they chose to dump Bautista because they wanted to avoid paying him $4M or $5M this year.

He would have been an excellent bench / utility player, capable of filling in adequately at 3B, SS, 2B, and all three outfield positions. Not to mention some righthanded pop in his bat, the kind of which they claimed was an off season target but have been unable to find.

IMO Bautista, while probably never suited to be an everyday player, has the potential to be one of the games best utility players.

Hostage

Good points--you don't want to scramble every year to fill spots.  Find a good bench player and keep him around for several years.  

NH--I agree with JAL and think maybe you are letting your "rage" against Nutting and the FO interfere with clear thinking on the bench issue.  I have never (and believe me I'm no expert) heard of building ANY championship team by the bench.  I actually think the "annual" thinking makes a lot of sense and is consistent with looking long term.  While the Pirates of the 70's had some relatively consistent benches for a couple of years, the economics of baseball were very different then, I believe.  The FO by this approach is putting more pressure directly on themselves (or at least Neal), so to me it is a little hard to criticize them and I really don't see the logic of your position.

NH--I agree with you about Joey Bats being potentially a great utility player, but two points:  I don't think he would have accepted that here, and I may be adding 2 and 2 and getting 5, but he said when he left that he and JR didn't see eye to eye and JR said the slackers from last year were gone, and other than Paulino he is the only other potential candidate for that category that I can think of.  That being said, his absence does, of course, save several millions for this year's payroll.

Depending on the bench player, they might only want a one year deal.  If they have a great year off of the bench, there's potential to enhance their value and become a starter.

And signing a bench player for one year doesn't, in my opinion, indicate that a team isn't "building."  Are the Brewers not building because they sign Craig Counsell to one year deals?  What about the Red Sox and Sean Casey?  The Astros signed Jason Michaels and Aaron Boone to one year deals each this year.  Are they not committed to building?

With all the problems this organization has, signing bench players to one year deals has to be way down on the totem pole.  If we had a team that was contending on a basis consistent with the Twins, A's, and Indians, I don't think there would be complaints about signing bench players to one year deals.

I tried this last night, but the discussion was going in a different direction.  Still, think it's a good idea though.

Why not offer Doug a coaching job, preferably at the AA level so he can begin to instill a little fight into our youngsters.  It looks like he's a longshot for even a bench job at this point, adn the thing we like about him is the way he approaches the game.  

Just think if we would have signed Rivas and Gomez to two year deals, Did either of them play anywheres well enough that onee would think we got a gamer here?  NO NO NO.

Gomez was suppose to play a little short, he could not.

Rivas had his issues.

Last years bench was an upgrade over the previous bench.  Thsi years iut is in the process of another upgrade:  Mr.V and Mr. H if he signs and all hope we do sign him.

So, the look is to upgrade and the look is that we are seeing it now for two years in a row.  

JAL, it would not be fair to the club to blame DD now looking likely departed, which of the other bench players from last year would you say was a two year keeper?  I say none.

I do agree that "when" you find a bench player you like, keep him around.  

This team is in major transformation over the next couple of years.  Free agencywill lose some and gain some.  Same with trades, our future roster makeup may be different than what we concieve.

I would hope those now under consideration for the bench are upgraded over next year.  I want to see them play and play before I say       attaway!

Good Morning, all.  If you're in the northeast, be careful out there today.  Ugly!

I completely agree w/ NH and JAL that there is no reason to have to start from scratch every year to find a bench, particularly if you already have someone who has done a good job and wants to come back.  It's a waste of time and energy, plus a possible crap-shoot, to throw that player out and find a new, different one.  No one thinks the bench is a major part of building a team until that team is in far better condition than the Pirates currently are.  But spending the entire off-season looking for bench players is not time well spent IMO.

Jose Bautista is a career .239 hitter.  Last year, he hit .242 for us and .214 for Toronto.  Sometimes, his OBP is decent.

When we stop talking about players like this, we know we've finally made it.

I put a couple of clarifing tunes to my point on the OS

JHADAR,  great idea

I first heard of Hinske's potential signing last night through Dejan's appearance on the CW's Nightly Sports Call.  (You're looking good, DK)!  My initial gut impression was...hmmmmmm...interesting.  So this morning I contacted my baseball "insider" expert's opinion on Mr. Hinske, and got this reply:  "Hinske would be a great pick up."  I trust this person's educated opinion implicitly---so much so that the loss of St. Dougie just might be easier to bear.

OH, and that person does not happen to be NuttingHostage, who posted the first positive possibly ever (at least since I've been reading) about a front office potential move!  Surely, the sky must be falling!

Capn--although it is hard to disagree with a fellow Wahoo, I think in today's baseball economic situation, a team like the Pirates is using its time wisely by looking at bench guys year to year.  Without doing the research, it seems like if you can get guys like DD at $700,000 for one year and other formerly high priced guys at bargain rates to fill in off the bench it makes a lot of sense that it is time well spent.  LIke DD, I think a lot of the one year guys are trying to show other teams that they still have it and agree to a below market one year deal.  I think the difference with the previous FO, as others have pointed out, is that they used the one year deals to fill in starters rather than bench players.

Bautista 2008  .238 / .313 / .405

Hinske 2008  .247 / .333 / .465

NH -- Why do you believe that Bautista is a better fit than Hinske?  I'm not following your logic here.  Hinske hits more often, hits harder, and gets on base more often other ways than Bautista.  And he did it in a cavernous park.  The only reason you gave was that Bautista cost more.  

If you want to build a bench the first component you look for is POWER. Most of the time when you bring up a pinch hitter, your not looking for a single, but a double or HR.  If bucos want to build a quality bench they should look in the direction of one of the greatest pirates of all time. Barry Bonds. He would be an ideal part time starter/bench player.  He is desperate to play and would not command a huge contract. Say 1 year 5 million. He would bring people to the games and add a little excitement to this terrible team.  We might even win 70 games instead of 62 this year,.

NH -- Re-read your earlier posts; looks like they were separate thoughts, so while you didn't actually come out and say you thought Bautista was your choice over Hinske, I forced the conclusion.  My apologiess if I mis-represented you, but it's obviously possible to reach that conclusion when you combine the posts.

I for one would stay away from the games if they brought Bonds in.

-4 on the prairie this morning, but no ice.  So it looks like I'm out for awhile.  

I see your point, Arriba, and I have to agree.  Hadn't thought of it in that way.  Still, a happy mix of the two approaches might be a way to go.  I wouldn't like a refusal of the FO to re-sign a bench player no matter what.  Happy to learn you're a Wahoo.  I didn't know.

Scott, Barry, and what bring people to the ball park who carry batteries, no thanks for that cheatin bum.  That would be one signing that would keep me out of the ball yard.

He is a bad man and he attracks other bad men, I would not want to take my Grandkids to a game for fear of what they might see to tarnish the love of the game

I hope that was a joke

Oh Wilver,

I'll agree that for a team that doesn't yet have a competitive lineup of everyday players, the bench should remain a secondary concern. The everyday lineup needs to be the first priority.

However, I am looking beyond that and making the wishful assumption that somehow, someway the Coonelly fulfills his promise of developing a championship caliber club. When and if that day comes, I would much prefer a bench that is built intelligently with specific players chosen to fit specific roles as opposed to just saying that due to cost we will only commit bench roles a year at a time and placing yourself at the mercy of what is a available during a particular off season. MLB roster management, or any aspect in life I believe it is far better to plan and control your destiny as opposed to leaving it up to chance.

I think last season is a prime example. Huntington's ambitions, or player availability, or a combination of both resulted in a hodge podge bench and bullpen to start the season and both were weaknesses among all the other weaknesses of a last place club. Mienky was an OK signing, but Gomez and Rivas were a waste and hurt the club when Wilson went down. Plus, they were useless in pinch-hitting roles. Michaels eventually fell into their laps and that helped, but overall that bench was a dud.

It would be a shame someday if the club eventually had a strong enough everyday lineup and starting rotation to be competitive but lack of a well constructed bench and bullpen due to lack of planning or foresight holds them back.

I look at a guys like John Milner and Rennie Stennett on the 79 club as well as a well constructed bullpen of Bibby, Romo, Jackson and Tekulve and say that, that over the course of the season they made important contributions.

I don't see a club getting that kind of contribution by to a cheaply and haphazardly assembled bench of available misfits.

I'd much prefer foresight and planning resulting in an effective bunch of players that complements your starting lineup.

But that's just me.  

Wilver,

What choice did Bautista have in accepting a utility player role?

He wasn't eligible for free agency yet.

Since when do we allow the players to dictate the amount of playing time and their role?

If the Pirates are offering a one year deal to either Gonzalez or Hinske, I woud definitely take Gonzalez.

Better hitter against LHP. Better leadership. Potential hall of famer.  If I were 31 years old like Hinske I'd be wanting to start more games and not just be a bench player.  

Good morning all. Hope everyone is safe and warm this morning!

I am hoping that Hinske is signed, but I am not particular as to length of contract. For the reasons a number of you have stated, the PBC is not yet at a point where the needs of the bench are going to be predictable over multiple seasons.

As Morgan, Moss, Stonehenge and possibly McCuthen and Tabata develop, their development - or lack thereof will dictate bench needs. Hinske is needed this year. He MAY be needed next - but maybe not. Get my drift?

Why lock bench players capable of certain roles into multi-year contracts when the roles you need them to fill may not exist the season after this one?

Jose

Mr. Hadar,

I'm not saying Bautista or Hinske.

Why not both given the fact the Pirates starting lineup is in a rebuilding stage heavily dependent on young players seeking to establish themselves.

IMO a bench including Bautista and Hinske is highly complimentary. Bautista can play 3B, SS, 2B, and all three outfield positions and bats righthanded with a little pop. Hinske on the other hand can play 3B, 1B, RF, and LF and hits lefthanded with pop. Together they would offer a managers all kinds of options when it comes to spot starts, giving regulars a day off, pinch-hitting matchups, etc.

I'd much rather have a bench of Bautista, Hinske, and Vasquez - due to the complimentary nature of their skills, and overall talent compared to the hodge podge mess we began last season with of Rivas, Gomez, and Mienky.

Rivas could only play 2nd adequately and couldn't hit a lick. Gomez could only play 1B adequately and certainly was no pinch-hitting threat. Mienky was OK.

Let me ask you this, which bench do you prefer.

Bautista didn't want to be a bench player. Much like RonPaul, Bautista gave up when regulated to riding the pine.

Capn

Not just a mess in northeast--it is mess here in the DC area too--ice everywhere--slick roads and sidewalks, ice covered cars and freezing rain falling.  What fun

DD was a nice piece last year.  Hinske hit 20 bombs of the bench...  DD - 2.  Leadership is really great, but I want dudes who can hit the ball hard.  In fact, all of the DD talk got me thinking that Michaels really was a better player on the field for the Bucs last year.  I think it is time to move on from DD.

I am firmly in the Hinske boat here.

NH--Just a couple of points

Bench--once they get to the point of having a solid, set, major league everyday 8 player lineup, then your argument makes some sense.  But with today's situation(who's on third, is JW going to be her next year, is Freddy, as AdLa, etc.), it is impossible to sign the right guys longterm for the bench roles the way you mentioned.  As far as the bullpen, in your examples, Capps is Teke (closer), Grabow is Jackson (set up man).

Bautista--there is doing what you are told and there is embracing your role;  Castillo did what he was told a couple of years ago, but I don't think he was a positive in the clubhouse and as I said in my earlier post, I was putting 2 and 2 together to come to a reasonable, maybe faulty, conclusion about Bats as being considered a slacker by JR.

Candel,

Is it a Hinske Boat or a Hinske Mob?

Either way, I'm in it with you.

;-)

Hostage

I want a mahogany bench with a nice soft covering on top and drink holders near it :)

@ Teke: That was my issue with Bautista as well. What he wanted to do and what he was suited to do were two different things.

Like Snell, he is another one who needs an on-field psychologist.

Didn't Wilson "call him out" prior to last season in re his attitude?

@ NH: Yes, on paper I agree with you that Bautista, et al would be a better bench but I think JB would be spending his time sulking. Again.

Jose

Wilver,

I don't consider signing a player to a 1 yr deal with a club option for a 2nd a long term deal. I consider it leaving yourself options.

Capps is Teke, Grabow is Jackson. - We lack anything remotely as effective as Romo as the 7th inning man or as effective as Jim Bibby as the long man / spot starter. - That was a well constructed bullpen. Right now we have Capps and Grabow and hope. Hope isn't a plan.

As far as Bautista goes, if your manager cannot handle his young players, especially his bench players who have not earned full time duty and are not seasoned vets, then you have the wrong manager.

JAL,

Speaking of your mahogony bench, I've always said one of the best jobs in America is that of a backup catcher in MLB.

You play once or twice a week, usually on Sunday afternoons, and then spend the rest of your time hanging out with the pitchers in the bullpen eating sunflower seeds.

What a life that would be.

;-)

NH--sorry to butt in on your question to JH, but your choice of benches is totally irrelevant in the current discussion, and in my view, reality.  Joey B, Hinske and Vasquez vs. Rivas, Gomez and DD???  Don't see the point.  Any answer certainly doesn't mean we should have kept Joey.  And I would suspect in your view, based on your comments about Rivas and Gomez, Vasquez and Hinske and X would be better.

NH,

Rennie Stennett hit .238 with zero homeruns in 1979.  We should be striving for better than that.

Jose,

I don't care about JB sulking.

To me that is the managers job to manage.

You can't allow young players make your decisions for you as a ballclub. You need to manage them.

To me the sulking issue could come in to play if JB was a seasoned vet, a 10 and 5 with the right to demand a trade.

In JB's case, the answer is simple. Your .242 batting average earned you a demotion to utility for now. We still think you have the ability to be a productive and valuable major league player. The better you play and the more you produce, the more playing time you will earn. It's entirely up to you.

Good Morning, All!

@CandelArea - "I am firmly in the Hinske boat here."

And I'm your first mate, Bro! Bombs away! Woo-Hoo!

@JHadar - I'd be for offering a job to Doug, too, but a couple years from now ... I came to love him so much - for his leadership abilities AND his performance - the guy can still play and WANTS to play. I say it would be better for him this year to go play somewhere, even if it's for Washington ... Pennsylvania, I mean!

@NH - "Is it a Hinske Boat or a Hinske Mob?"

It's the Mob, Buddy! And when I come up this summer, we'll all have forgotten about Dougie, with Hinske's 15 taters at the break, so we all get together, see, and we invite Hinske to join us, see, and all us Mobsters deck out in Roaring 20s wear, see, spats and all, see, for one big Hinske's Mob Party ... BTW, it takes place at your crib, NH ... see? We'll even dress up Buddy and Cooper! (That be NH's dogs, for all ye new posters ... aaaarrrrgggh, me hearties!)

Wilver,

No need to be sorry, it's a blog and you can comment on anything you want.

In my view, the topic is relevent. Keeping JB as a utility player was an option the club chose not to pursue. The concept of keeping him and adding bench players including those we have discussed such as Hinske and Vasquez are certainly within the realm of possibility.

For some, decisions can be one building block after another. Unfortunately, for some people, including the Pirates, decisions are often individual, free standing events and in the case of the Pirates, the quality of their roster clearly demonstrates this.

Hostage

Backup catcher is a bit more complicated than that with a team like the Pirates were last season--you would spend a lot time warming up relief pitchers :)

NH-just a hypothetical--you have a choice of a potential player you think can hit 20 homers for you and he will only sign a one year deal, and you have a player who you think can hit 15, but will sign a one year deal with a club option for two and the annual figures are equal and they can fill the same roles defensively. . . What do you do if you are the Pirates? All I'm saying is it takes two to tango and I haven't seen anything that says the Pirates would refuse to offer a club option for a second year, and my guess is the players we are talking about would be the ones to reject that scenario.

As far as Bibby and Romo, how about Dumaitrait and Yates?

First, Good morning, everyone!

NH...Bautista was a starter though and floundered there.  He couldn't accept the bench role.  IMO, even the best managers can't win over every player...sometimes it's just better for everyone involved if the player moves on.  

Gonna make a longshot call here. It's going to make a rich man out of me in Vegas ... Put your money on the Pirates to win Game 7 of the the World Series in 2009.

Vasquez the winner, a 4-3, 10-inning victory over the Rays. Hinske provides the muscle with a three-run dinger. Capps takes a 3-0 lead into the 9th but blows it by getting stuck for a couple runs, and a couple more baserunners. Meek comes on, gives up one of Capps runners before an inning-ending whiffing of the next two (Last one, Longoria).

Then McCutchen comes to the plate with pinch-runner Nyjmo on second. Base hit up the middle, PNC goes nuts ... and we're forced to build another wing at the Asylum.

Ugh... I'm late to the party... late morning, no alarm clock, fog on the highway...

Welcome epmornsesh!  Great comments JHader, NH et. al.

My 2 cents - Jose Bautista wasn't hustling quite as much as he should.  He had potential but I was disappointed except for that brief spurt around June.  I don't believe he would ever be happy with a bench job.

And there in lies the problem.  I agree that we should get a good bench guy and keep him for years, but most players don't want to be bench guys for years.

Baywatch,

Good morning pal!

I embrace the concept of the Mob. - I'm guessing I need to watch my step though otherwise the Mob may join forces and direct their wrath toward me and see to it that I join Mr. Hoffa beneath the Meadowlands.

;-)

Dmac,

There is always an excuse.

Baywatch, that's my plan for 2010!  No kidding I've been telling all my friends that I think 2010 or 2011  the bucs are going to surprise people... either that or my accountant will be sadly surprised.;-)

Mid-morning Link

Hinske to Pirates, Garland to Diamondbacks

www.examiner.com/x-1088-MLB-Examiner~y2009m1d28-Hinske-to-Pirates-Garland-to-Diamondbacks

Wilver,

I'd need more information to make that call because HR's are by far the only criteria in such a decision. How good are the two players defensive skills? What positions do they play? How do their skills compare and contrast to other players on the roster? Do their skills give the manager something he doesn't have in other players already on the roster? What is the plate discipline of the two players? Do they both take walks? What are their baserunning abilities?

That's the kind of stuff I think should be considered when constructing a bench instead of who's available, who will sign the cheapest, etc.

If Hinske is wants or is willing to agree to a club option, then why the heck not??? Why is it good for the club and how does it promote the building of a championship caliber club to have a singular focus of signing bench or bullpen players to one year contracts, especially if other options are available?

@ NH: I appreciate your point about JB. Since he is gone, I guess this is beating a bit of a dead horse, but some folks are "discipline adverse" - no matter who is administering it. JB may be one of them.

Part of his issue is I am sure that he does not view himself as a Futility Infielder/Outfielder. Even a stern disciplinarian such as Sister Mary Screaminholler might not be able to change that type of self-image. Although making JB kneel on unpopped popcorn in front of the team for a class period might work.

Jose

JAL,

One time back in the 80's when Jr. Ortiz was the Pirates backup catcher, he received some extended playing time over the course of a week or two week period from Leyland due to an injury to Spanky and went into Leyland's office and kiddingly told him to "bench me or trade me".

Jr. was a character.

Bay--I have one item that makes your WS scenario impossible---the NL would have to win the All Star game to have a 7th WS game at PNC Park. ;-)

Jose,

I don't know if JB is discipline adverse or not, but I can tell you this.....

If the PBC begins allowing utility players attitude to dictate their future and cannot manage them, they are in for world more trouble than we have already seen.

NH--I was trying to say that everything else was equal.  I think you either misunderstood my point or don't like the answer.  Just trying to deal with the facts, Dude.

Good morning everyone

I have to agree with Hostage that there was no reason to toss Bautista under the bus. Once demoted, he could have been encouraged by the possibility of working his way back off the bench or being provided with a trade; he must know at that point that only hard work will advance his carrier. He was after all a right handed bat, and that is an obvious weakness when one evaluates the bench.

Wilver,

It wasn't that I didn't like the question, I just don't think that "all things being equal" in that scenario is within the realm of possbility. No two players are exactly alike.

Maybe give me a couple of real life examples and ask me the same question?

Arriba - "Bay--I have one item that makes your WS scenario impossible---the NL would have to win the All Star game to have a 7th WS game at PNC Park. ;-)"

LOL! Yeah, like the not-so-old song says: "And it's been awhile ..."

BUT ... It's Vegas longshot time again: Doumit hits a sac fly in the 13th inning to drive in Nate the Great from 3B, All-Star Game 2009!

NH--My point was , really, that we don't know whether the player was offered a one year deal or a one year deal with a club option.  It would seem to me there is no downside to a club option for a second year other than it would likely cost a little more in a buyout if the agent is doing his job.  I think you didn't like the question.

Oh those servers--just can't seem to get good help these days :)

Bay--lol-love your boundless optimism; only in the Asylum

If they would just quit drinking the altar wine...

@NH,

I'm right with you. Club options can only help the ballclub. I fail to see how that is a bad deal. The hard part is getting the player to agree with them. But with Hinske, why not two years? He is still young...

As for Bautista, why are we still talking about him? For me, he is the face of losing seasons recently. He did little to help the club, he is a headcase, and he never seemed to be one to be motivated by adversity. No one likes a pity-party.

Baywatch, NICE! I want to be the first to shake Cutch's hand in the WS victory parade!

Wilver,

I don't appreciate your insinuation.

If you can come up with a more realistic and intelligent question, I will be happy to answer you.

One thing this asylum needs is a bonafide scapegoat to blame.

I vote for the red jerseys. It's all their fault.

"If you can come up with a more realistic and intelligent question, I will be happy to answer you."

Wow!

@ CullenH: You are on to something! Not sure about the red uniforms. I think there is something deeper, more insidious even than that. Yes, more morally bankrupt even than the servers drinking the altar wine: The Fire and Ice Bobbleheads - dripping with negative karma! The Answer has been in my hall closet all this time!

Jose

@JOse,

Get those damn things outta here! They are ruining our chances for 09!

Heres a good /interesting article on Scott Boras (dont think it has been posted before, if it has, sorry)

www.hardballtimes.com/.../the-truth-about-scott-boras

NH--Not sure what you mean by my "insinuation."  I just think you were avoiding my question because you didn't like the answer.  I wasn't trying to insult you.  Maybe we were at cross purposes, but it seemed to me you were supporting your opinion that the FO's concentration on one year deals for the bench was wrong was largely based on the assumption that they were ONLY offering one year deals rather than one year deals with an option.  I was attempting to point out that that assumption might be false because we don't know what the discussions were/are with these bench players and that the assumption was more likely false than true since it was to the benefit of the club, not the player.  Sorry if you don't answer questions unless you consider them realistic and intelligent.  I do  not consider it realistic that if Joey Bats couldn't accept his role as a bench player it is JR's fault, but I wouldn't consider a challenge to that interpretation as an insult.

@Hostage--

Together they would offer a managers all kinds of options when it comes to spot starts, giving regulars a day off, pinch-hitting matchups, etc

Doesn't matter what options this manager has, he has a system and he does not like to use matchups, I am sure he understands them, just doesn't seem to be part of his system. He is keeping the bench warm until the team is built.

As far a bench players siging every year, in modern day baseball it is the right way to go, mostley because of contractual issues and top players skill levels falling, religating them to bench duties.  

@ CullenH: I'll send them to Scott Boras!! Imagine him trying to negotiate a hard-hitting contract with Ollie Perez' visage bobbing up and down from his curio cabinet!

@ Everyone: Intelligent questions? Cross purposes? Cross pollinization? Cross breeding? Hot cross buns! One a penny two a penny...It's versed time!

Yes nurse, I'll have my versed straight up with a twist please!

Jose

I thought no alcohol was allowed inside asylum walls before 6 pm

what time is the gathering in the main hall for meds?

Alright, Gang! Off to work the lunch rush, delivering the pie. When I come back, I'll expect to see Hinske inked, and at PNC taking some hacks with Don Long ...

Jose

Cross roads, Cross people, Crossed eyes, Crossed legs, and the intelligent question is why did the chicken cross the road :)

@CullenH...Open bar, 24/7...it makes things easier for all members.  :-)

Cullen

No gathering in the halls for meds, they are brought around to each wing :)

Also, with 133 post tis time to get thyself an avatar--makes it easier for your posts to be found rather than falling in with the clones.  Just click on mine and read the announcement on how to do it.

CullenH <<I thought no alcohol was allowed inside asylum walls before 6 pm>>

Dejan doesn't support it’s use at all inside the Asylum, but we sneak it in and hide it in the Kool-Aid.

JP---LMAO--I would submit that if questions, and I dare say, comments, had to be intelligent and realistic, this blog would be a lot less crowded and Smizik's new blog would get no postings.  :)

@ JAL: Because the Crosswalk was there? Crossed signals can be a problem in that case!

@ CullenH: Ahhh, that's the beauty of versed my friend! It is available by prescription only so you are never in violation of any silly "no alcohol" guidelines!

I understand meds may be a bit delayed due to the ice storm - they are putting safety chains on the wheels of the med cart.

Jose

Cullen - Get thee hence! And bring back an avatar!

By the way, its nice down here in southern WV, I walked to work this morning. About 40 degrees, partly sunny.

I feel sorry for all you in PItt. Sounds nasty.

Of course, I'm coming up to Pittsburgh this weekend for some football game everyone is telling me I should watch...

Cullen--I agree with JAL on the avatar; otherwise everyone is going to think you are mazfromiowa, who I think has a copyright on the one you are currently using.  I'll "cross" my fingers that you make the right choice.

good morning all.....

its time for my 2 cents worth, if its worth that much.

i like the Hinske signing (if it does) alot better than the other guys.  this guy might actually be able to play and start for the team and seems to have some pop in his bat.  He hit what? 20+ last year in tampa, not bad considering how things work in the dome down there.  He could hit 30+ with the nice porch in right.

another question which goes back to my question yesterday with Gonzo.  How many more Left Hand hitters do we need??  If they are looking for RH power...i dont think this guy cuts the mold.  Just a thought, but i still like the idea of him in a buccos uniform.

BTW......what is wrong with the RED jerseys?  I actually kinda liked them......

Fine I'll get an avatar, but I'm warning you all, it's going to be either

a) A picture of Jeromy Burnitz, or

b) A picture of Joe Randa

Be thee warned

@ Arriba: Heck, if I knew anything then I would be running the PBC and Frank and Neal would be asking questions here like: "What is the point of bringing back the Green Weenie" and "why did he make Bob Veale pitching coach?"

Instead I am listening to the clank of the safety chains on the marble floors of the Littlefield Pavillion...

Jose

@ Cullen H: Are you sure there is not a Joggin' George avatar in your future?

Or Hawkeye Pierce.

Cullen << avatar >>

Why don't you try something low key and under the radar to start out with? You know........kind of like mine.

;-)

@STL

What is wrong with the red jerseys is that they are not, by definition, black or gold..

@Arriba--

I would submit that if questions, and I dare say, comments, had to be intelligent and realistic, this blog would be a lot less crowded and Smizik's new blog would get no postings.

Intelligent and Realistic???? Does kind of challenge us when the most popular topic on the the threads for months is a back-up infielder, then along came the sleeves and the colors!!!!! OH what next??????? I have to agree with you.

And Smizik, not likely to get any postings from me, you never know, I could change my mind, but I don't think so. He has the perfect thread if you want to vent about the Bucs, anytime, whether their winning or not.

Not sure if this has ever been discussed, but what is the locale of the asylum?

Is it a mythical place, like Narnia or whatever?

If I had to vote, I would vote for on a ship, preferrably named the SS LITTLEFIELD. Every once in a while, we stop at Alcatraz where they keep meds stocked.

The avatar will have to wait until after work today

Ugly,

you picked the right avatar for your name...

Congrats on that!

Cullen--Ken is definitely the expert on avatars, so you should listen to him.  I wanted to use Al McBean, but couldn't find one that fit.  Ken's always fit.

@ Jose

the beauty of versed is that it makes you forget why you had to take it in the first place. SO LETS ORDER A ROUND FOR THE HOUSE

Gotta give NH a double dose today. I say forget Hinske and Gonzalez bring back Maz for the magic and lets get ready to play the games

What was the topic anyways and how did I get in here and why am I in a straitjacket

NURSE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And now, from the Department of Redundancy Department (i.e beating a dead horse):

I, for one, was happy to see Joey Bats leave. Talk about unfulfilled potential ! The only thing you could be sure about with JB was if the game was on the line, RISP, he would pop up, strike out, or hit into an inning-ending DP. He was constantly trying to hit a 700 ft. HR in those situations, caring more about his own stats than the team's needs. I don't miss him a bit.

Much as I like and admire DD, I would much rather have a player with some pop who can play 3 or 4 positions (compared with 1 1/2 for Doug). Doug played very well in his role last year, but the single most endearing this he did was stare down Randy Johnson. If he is gone, he will be missed, but his signing is not the most importatnt thing for the PBC.

It's a no-brainer IMHO as far as Hinske vs Gonzo goes. Take the 31 year old player, Gonzo's best days are past him.

I'm just sayin'

I'm also good with the Hinske signing, if it happens. And there were a number of us (incl TBB and others) who have mentioned the same over the last few weeks when his name was out there. And although it's fun here to make suggestions like this, there is no way the FO is following the lead of the asylum (at least I hope not - that would be one thing that would really make me lose confidence in them).

as for Hinske himself, maybe he will be a good luck charm for the PBC, as he's been in the WS the past 2 years (with TB and Boston)?? And both those teams wear sleeves!

i do like the new alt. jersey though....

@ indianafanatic: in re: versed - not, "Nurse help!" But: Nurse! More!"

Like Rousseau once said: "I drink, therefore, I am."

Jose

Cullen--not sure where the Asylum is located other than cyberspace, but I think you hit the nail on the head with Alcatraz.  I think we're stuck there until we have at least a winning season.  Remember, though, no one has ever escaped (unless you believe the Clint Eastwood movie).  Sounds like an idea for an avatar?????

Wilver,

Not a big deal.

Jose

hmmmmm what is it that they say about mixing alcohol and drugs.... oh yeah JUST GIVE ME SOME VERSED NOW!!!!!!!

CullenH <<Is it a mythical place, like Narnia or whatever? >>

The Asylum is not at all mythical, this is a real place where only true Pirate fans may reside (visitors and dogs are always welcome). It doesn’t matter if the inmate is hopelessly optimistic, overly pessimistic, a conspiracy theorist, or just teetering on the sharp edge of optimism & pessimism; we have a place for everyone.

@ 21sthebest,

"I get the feeling that the PBC Blog crowd is mostly a bunch of retirees still living in the 50's and 60's, except for Hostage. Even if you got a more hostile crowd in front of Frank, I could see them turning into sheep."

www.forums.mlb.com/.../forum.aspx

Wow!

NH--Me neither . . . fist bump?

Cullen

Sometimes....when the attendents let their guard down.... we sneak away for awile an meet in person at some local Pittsburgh establishment.

Fist bump Wilver!

For what it's worth, I enjoy the debate and hope you do too.

"Where is the sense?

Where is the plan?"

THIS IS THE PIRATES! There is none!

just read some of JAL's links to blogs; Bucs Trade Wind's main premise today is we must sign DD immediately as he is the right-handed bat we desperately need - say what?!?

Where were you this past Sunday, Ken?  You were missed...as was Madturk and BK.

@Cullen...We normally meet up in cyberspace, but the in person gathterings are equally as fun.  I'm sure we're all looking forward to having a large group session at PNC though.  :-)

NH-I enjoy the debate also.  And like to have fun with it whenever possible.

Ladies and Gents.........THE ASYLUM

community.post-gazette.com/.../asylum.jpg.aspx

Cave,

Is that the Asylum or Stately Nutting Manor?

;-)

Re - asylum location -

I think I heard, am not totally sure, Nurse Cratchett say we're located on the dark side of the moon.

And no, my fellow inmates, once you come here, YOU CAN NEVER GET OUT

(I need someone to add one of those evil laughs here...)

A question, if we sign Hinske, what will we babble about next??

Hey, I'm new to this Pirates blog, but why what happened with McClutchen? I thought the plan was to bring him up for '09 and give him a chance as a starter?

DMac

Unfortunately, things just got a little too busy for me on Sunday; I didn't even get a chance to listen to my Duquesne Dukes win their 13th game (first one I missed this year).

DK missed Q&A this morning which must hes busy covering the signing of either Gonzalez or Hinske. Its an exciting day for the PBC.

Bizzy,

We could always go back to the sleeves??

;-)

Come Back Shane,

"what happened with McClutchen?"

I don't know if that was a slip of the finger, but either way I like it and hope one day we can all refer to Andrew as......

"MCCLUTCHEN!"

Good job.

;-)

A Broader view of THE ASYLUM with all of the wings and annexi

www.danversstateinsaneasylum.com/.../ext16.jpg

DeRose,

"DK missed Q&A this morning which must hes busy covering the signing of either Gonzalez or Hinske. Its an exciting day for the PBC."

Actually, I think Nutting, Coonelly, and Huntington have Dejan trapped in some room sitting underneath a bright warm lamp with the 2008 Pirates Highlight film playing on a continuous loop on a nearby TV demanding that he reveal who this Nuttinghostage menace is out there on the blogospheres and internets because they are tired of this relentless harassesment and ripping of each and every move they make.

But like any honest, forthright journalist, Dejan is refusing to divulge his sources, regardless of the torture they are putting him through.

;-)

"MCCLUTCHEN!"

HAHA, oops, yeah, maybe that was my subconscious leaking a little hope.

I think the Asylum is located in the Tiffany-Twisted Wing of the Hotel California.

"You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"

Cave

Funny.....it looks much bigger on the inside. I guess that's because there is no furniture and all the walls have that white padding.

I hear the name Nurse Ratchett all the time in here, which makes me think,

If this really is a "Cuckoo's Nest", someone is getting a lobotomy soon.

Personally, I think it's going to be Ron D.

However, I have not seen Ron D in awhile, so in his honor, I give a very loud, energetic, and angry,

WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

I meant that as a compliment to him, lest anyone think I was dissin' him...

Cullen

You in southern WV?  I am from northern WV--Morgantown

The Asylum location? You see, everyone thought the old Weston State Hospital was closed, but in reality....

And no lobotomy for me, thank you, but I see there is no line today for the ElectroShockTherapy! I hope I can double-dip!

Good day inmates. Welcome new folks.

Boy howdy that's a lot of posts to catch up on.

NH - I see your bitterness is healthy today.

Whoever said the PBC threw Joey Bats under the bus, I disagree. Joey Bats threw Joey Bats under the bus. His attitude did. As did Ronny Paulino's. I don't know much about the team he went to, but as for Ronny, if he continues his overly mellow approach to tagging runners at home or gunning a runner down at second, now that he's with the Phillies he's performing in front of the most vicious fan base in baseball. The city of Brotherly Love has no love - not even for their own.

As for the bar opening in this here asylum: Last year I made the statement  at work that I would only have an adult beverage at night if I had a bad day at work or the Bucs lost. The next day I had an AA brochure on my desk. Srsly.

Bizrow: This is what you requested, right?

MUA-HA-HA-HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

@JAL,

I live in Lewisburg, WV. I am originally from Omaha, Nebraska, and lived in Steubenville for 6 years.

Hey, I think the Pirates blog and fellow asylum members should be proud that we're responsible for crashing the servers.

DK, don't give credit to those boring, upper middle class, suburban, wealthy Pens fans for doing any crashing, ok?  Who within the city limits can even afford a Penguins ticket anymore, let alone a nachos and a beer?  

Good day PoH

Amen on Joey Bats.

Cullen,

We are inmates here so we do give lobotomy to anyone.  We do smash a pie in the face of anyone who get nasty--nyuk, nyuk, nyuk  :)

Cullen

Interesting world--I have been to Lewisburg--in fact, I know Paul Detch, a lawyer in Lewisburg.  I have spent many hours in Omaha as I lived in St. Joe, MO for 11 years

mlbtrade rumors has noted in the "fine print" that 3 teams are inquiring on the Cubs Rich Hil, who is out of options. I would hope the Bucs are one of those 3 teams, as I think he would be a low-risk/high reward candidate for the starting rotation, especially once getting him out from Piniella's 2008 doghouse.

the link: www.mlbtraderumors.com/.../cubs-close-to-a.html

@JAL,

wow, that is a small world, I don't make it back to nebraska too often, only to visit my parents, but I do love it there. and I bleed Nebraska football.

@juan p,

Doubtful, who would the pirates give up?

Cubs trade Cedano and Olson for pitcher Aaron Heilman.

Good day POH

POH,

"NH - I see your bitterness is healthy today."

It fluctuates between bitterness to rage and back again.

I'm hurt though that as it relates to me, you only comment on the negative. You don't bring me flowers anymore.

;-(

Hostage

It is winter and you want flowers?  Be happy she is not throwing snowballs at you :)

Here is link on the Cub's trade

blogs.dailyherald.com/.../1316

Mostly lurking today.  Good debate.

--PoH you are on the money again.   Joey Bats did in Joey Bats.  Joggin' Ronnie will not survive in Philadelphia if he plays the way he did in Pgh.  Like literally, will not live.

--Sir, NuttingHostage, Sir:  We can respectfully agree to disagree here, if I understand your position, but I, for one, do not feel that a player's attitude can be coached or managed.  There are certain guys who just need to grow up, and try any remedy you want, only time will improve his attitude.  You can try to affect it, but you can't effect it.

--RE: Adult beverages:   With the lights on all day and all night, and no windows, there's no way of telling time, and thus, time does not exist.  It's always after 5 in the asylum

--Bizzybuddy:  *MWAHAHAHAHAHA*

--JAL: Good to see your avatar, as always.

--CullenH:  You probably know this by now, but beware of DMac when praising Husker football.  We don't need that wrath around here! *G*

Cullen - not sure who to "give up", but suspect it would not be much at all as Hill is out of options and will most likely be lost on waivers anyway, with 0 return to the Cubs... although getting another Hill from the Cubs may bring back some bad memories for longtime Buc fans!

Sir L

Thanks--but does anyone know who my avatar is?  Don't know is no one has asked because they know or they don't care :)

NuttingHostage - don't feel offended. You "read" bitter today, I can see the angry now that I read back. I appreciate your honesty and I'm glad you're here in any mood. Srsly.

Someone point out a team to me that keeps the same bench for several years. I'd be interested in knowing that.

Juan

Yes, another Hill might give us the Hill Street Blues :)

DK has the Q and A up if you want to read it

@SirL...and Cullen H...Just because I don't bleed Husker Red and White -- or is it Scarlet and Cream? -- doesn't mean I attack those who do.  I, afterall, wasn't born in the Cornhusker State...I am the anomaly there.  

JAL: www.baseball-reference.com/.../coopewi01.shtml

But why?  That's either for you to explain, or me to try and figure out...

JAL:  Is it just because he's Bearsville's own?

Sir Lochness,

"do not feel that a player's attitude can be coached or managed.  There are certain guys who just need to grow up, and try any remedy you want, only time will improve his attitude.  You can try to affect it, but you can't effect it."

Oh, we would definitely have to disagree.

Be it baseball players, or any employee in any line of work, there will of course always be some people you can never reach, but I would never agree that is an absolute. From personal experience alone, both as an individual contributor and as a manager I have personally experienced situations where a good manager, with effective coaching and interpersonal skills positively influenced an employees attitude and outlook. I would also say a manager, again baseball or otherwise owns the responsibility to at least make an attempt before writing off an employee.

I don't think any of us here are qualified to say if JB was one of those guys who could never be reached, of if he was reachable. My point upthread though is that a good manager has a responsibility to make an attempt, that's why they call it managing and oftentimes can reach an emploee.

JAL,

"It is winter and you want flowers?"

Actually, I was just looking for an opportunity to reference one of my favorite Neil Diamond tunes.

S L

Very good--why--in long history of the Pirates he is , amazingly,  the only pitcher to win 200 games in a Pirate uniform.  

JAL,

If you had to pick one former Pirate pitcher to pitch for your team in the 7th game of a world series, who would it be?

JAL: Re: Wilbur Cooper:

But I bet it doesn't hurt that he's from God's country, right? *G*

Hostage

Diamond sang it but it was written by the Bergmans

@NuttingHostage-

As long as you're playing games, why don't you tell everyone who was following me around the Pirates MLB.com message board with the nickname Gayfor21sthebest before he got caught changing his nickname back to McClatchyhostage?

Sir L

No, it doesn't hurt--that's a bonus

Hostage

If you pick one known as a Pirate have to go with Blass because he pitched a game 7 and pitched very well.  If you pick someone who passed through Pittsburgh a couple of times I would go with Burleigh Grimes or Jack Chesbro

Inmates

Q & A is finally up

JAL,

My clutch, must win starter would be Candy.

@POH - re Bizrow: This is what you requested, right?

MUA-HA-HA-HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

Exactly, if I may say Maam, no one has that laugh down pat like you do

Gives me chills, of course as I sit here looking out at the Ohio river, what I see going on out there might be be adding to the chill....

Well now having wasted the better part of an hour catching up on one thread that I even commented on earlier this morning -- not all that much to say

NH -- About the only two choices for which bench I would choose -- neither.  Assuming they'll need 12 pitchers . . .

C -- Jaramillo or Diaz, OF -- Hinske if they sign him, Pearce

Inf -- Vasquez, Bixler or Walker.  Point is, sluggishness or attitude aside, Bautista is just not the best use of resources.  

On the secondary issue -- name a major league club that has not traded away or otherwise rid itself of a player with a bad attitude.  (Why is Manny in LA?, Why did Babe Ruth have to play out his career with the Boston Braves?)  Seems you're picking on the Bucs' moves as a way to rationalize your feelings about the owner.  Mrs. Hope is right, when it builds up in you, the rest of us can tell.

<Asylum>  The asylum is located inside an what appears to old-fashioned London police call booth that is much larger on the inside than the outside and can transport itself to wherever it needs to be to find you.  After the nurse checks you in, the Doctor will greet you.

<Beverage Selection>  In addition to being bipolar, the earth is round and it's always after 6 pm somewhere.  And since someone thought that everyone here is getting old and feeble, I would also like to point out that vodka is a clear liquid.

JAL -- Wilbur appeared shortly after our discussion on the difficulty of picking a pitcher for an all-time Pirate team, didn't he.  Sorry for not noticing publicly, but you have a track record of explaining your avatars.  (I'm still trying to get both of my dogs to sit still and close enough to one another WHILE I have a camera in my hand.)

Otherwise, cold, sunny and dry on the prairie with gusting winds.  Gloves and hat needed.  Don't touch anything metal.

JH

Yes, he did appear on that discussion.

Things melting here after yesterday snow and ice.

Bautista had a rep as an attitude problem back in his Altoona days, so he has been a long term problem. Obviously that does not mean a manager could not have corrected his attitude with time but I would submit that even if JR had been a magic worker Jose has spent his whole life being a potential star but never came close to fulfilling that potential. I think as a fan base we saw in him the player we wanted him to be not the player he was and is. He is no loss.

Papa,

Not to say he didn't, but I don't recall Bautista having attitude problems in Altoona, and I spend a lot of time there in the summer and going to Curve games.

Can you supply a link?

Sorry, I am working on memory and unfortunatly mine is not as good as it used to be. I most likely mixed him up with someone else. :(