Pirates, Hinske discuss contract

PLEASE SIGN HINSKE!!!

DK: <The Pirates have had contract discussions...and could be close to an agreement>

Do you know if the Pirates have actually offerred a contract, or is this standard "waters-testing?"

If I HAD to pick one....I'd take Gonzo.

If he could hit LH pitching we would not be discussing him, he would be signed for big bucks by a more "open walleted" club.  Anyway, since Joe Kerrigan is going to work miracles with our pitchers why can't Don Long teach Hinske to hit LH pitchers? :) Just hopin'

G.O.A.T -Iask this strictly out of a desire to be educated with no malice intended, WHY????

I definitely prefer Hinske to Gonzo.

Gonzo should retire.

Additional link: Hinske's baseball-reference page:

www.baseball-reference.com/.../hinsker01.shtml

I can't really see a trend here, so I don't have a huge feeling one way or the other.  Anyone know why he only played 109 in '06 and 84 in '07?  Even for a player with upside, in that he _is_ still young-ish, is he a fit?

No.... Hinske > Gonzo, at least in this scenario.... Hinske also > Jason Michael Michaels. Let's do it.

IMHO Hinske is the best of the three (himself, Doug M. and Luis G.)

He can play 4 positions (all of which are anything but locked up), he can hit for power (albiet from the left side) and he will likely fit well within the $4M that the GM has left to spend (the most important factor of all).

Jack S.

If the choices are Hinske, Gonzo and Doug M., I'd have to go with Dougie. The Pirates would know what they are getting and DM is a much better option at 1B as far as defense. There is also the clubhouse factor, and Doug far exceeds Hinske and is about even with Gonzo in this area. Forget Hinske and Gonzo, SIGN DOUG M........

Sir L

In 2006 he was in a platoon , in 2007 he was a bench player--Coco, Manny, and JD started most of the games.

@Stingray.... you're right on concerning Dougie... but I still like Hinske here.... Dougie has him in the Clubhouse department though for sure.

Hinske vs. Gonzo = electric chair vs. hanging

But, it's January 27 and we need somebody. I'm going out on a limb here and guess we're not going to sign Manny. So, I guess I'll throw my hat into the Hinske ring. Considering how many guys we had last Aug-Sep that were flirting wiith the Mendoza line, this guy is a Hall of Famer.  :-)

papacoach ,  I have no real reason. Neither helps as a stop gap, bench player,etc.

Hinske also could spell Little LaRoche at third base against right-handers and definitely provides more pop off the bench than Doug. Worth the couple million the Pirates are under their self-imposed cap, unless they're going to sign a significant pitcher like Sheets.

Hinske better bench with him and multiple coverage at positions for the buc's.  No a bad idea to sign him.

Hinske only played 109 in 2006...and 84 in 2007 because he was blocked at multiple positions with Toronto and Boston.

In Toronto he was blocked by Troy Glaus at 3B (Hinske's natural position), Lyle Overbay at 1B, and outfield of Catalanatto, Wells and Rios (all hit .300). He got traded to the Red Sox...blocked by Lowell...Youkilis...Crisp...Trot Nixon and Manny. And the same in 2007 except JD Drew in place of Nixon.

GOAT.......welcome to the Asylum

I like the avatar

Dougie love - it's driving me mad, making me crazy...

Since it says they are talking contract and it mentions no other teams that are interested, Hinske probably will be signed. Maybe he will give Andy La a push for the 3B job or at least be a platoon option?

Thanks Thunder, that is good information. With all due respect to the"Cult of DD" having Hinske's bat on the bench will be a step forward for our PBC

Evening all.

On the surface, despite being a leftie, it would seem that Hinske is insurance for Stonehenge at 3rd and outfield help in the not unlikely scenario that Moss is not ready in April or that Nyjer has issues at some point.

Plus, you have to like the pop this bat could provide. I'm feeling ok about this - not overjoyed - but ok.

Jose

I like Hinske, he hit 20 homeruns mostly out of a bench role. That would be #2 on our team as of the end of last year.

I still don't understand the 'no love for Doug' coming from management here. They haven't even tried.

But HInske would be good.

Isn't Monroe the perfect platoon for Hinkse?  We could platoon Hinske and Monroe, have McLouth in Center, and Moss in right.  Then are bench could be: Vazquez, Cruz, Jaramillo, Monroe, and Morgan...

                                                                                                       Unless Pearce is a better fit than Monroe, which I'm not dead set against..

Also, I would take Hinske over Gonzo because he is 10 YEARS YOUNGER!

Count me in with the Hinske Mob.

He is only 31 and could play all four corner positions.

Much better bench candidate and fall back position at 3B in the event LaRoche Jr. fails again.

Much better choice than Gonzo IMO.

Boy, this is getting too close for comfort. For a short time only; I've got "Dirty Doug delivers The Sermon on the Mount" collector's plate available at 50% off. Supplies are limited, so don't delay.

Hinske is young enough and brings enough power to the plate that he could be part of the future a opposed to grandpa Gonzo who in a best case scenerio plays well enough to be traded in July, other than the fact he hits left handed what's not to like?

Ya know what....Hinske would be a good addition...IF we were a Red Sox, Devil Rays, Yankees, Cubbies, etc etc....

I just think that while we continue to ( in my opinion) waste money, in the millions, on bench players...I guess my only thing is why not spend that money on that 1 or 2 good FA's that could actually be a building block on our team for the future...I do understand that we need those bench players...but my thing is, if we're still TRYING TO BUILD...why not start to add 1 or 2 pieces from FA...and it be money that can actually help us in the long-term instead of the one year rent a .225 BA player...

Life long Buccos fan and sometimes I'm not quite sure why...but o well, how sweet the day will be when we have our victory parade...whenever that may be :)

To allay any fears. I passed that last comment by a minister friend and he assured me that it wouldn't be that joke that stamped my ticket to hot side.

This is the best news we have had all offseason.  31 with some power and ability to play multiple positions.  Sounds like a HUGE upgrade over what we had on the bench last year ... even over ... dare I say...DD!

@ NH: We agree! Common ground is found!

JosePagan races to calendar and places gold star to note the event!

I think I also share your concern that Stonehenge will "fail" again. I am not quite sold on him either...Remember Bob Bailey!

Jose

I think the better question is, who should start Hinske or Morgan?

Jose,

It was bound to happen one of these days!

;-)

Just found this story from Rays site (link below).  Looks like he also is a great clubhouse guy like Doug for whatever it is worth:

"And with that statement, Hinske brings up a facet of his game that has never been called into question -- his example.

Although his signing with the Rays didn't come with the expected vocal leadership of Troy Percival or the calming presence of Cliff Floyd, Hinske has found his own clubhouse niche.

"He loves talking about the game and he understands the game very well," Rays manager Joe Maddon said. "So regardless if he's talking to a pitcher about things like that or another hitter about their at-bats, he has a lot to offer in a variety of different topics."

mlb.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

JP--Stonehenge???  I love it.  

I was just about ready to start my annual "get optimistic for the start of spring training and the new season and forget the past" and DK had to mention again that the Pirates get $35 mil in revenue sharing. And the payroll is $50-$54 mil?  Ouch  Thanks, DK.  :-)

Hinske doesn't sound too bad; at least he hits righties and 20 homers is nothing to sneeze at no matter which side you are doing it from and as is always said, PNC Park was built for left-handed power hitters.  

And, POH, we could pretend he is Longoria. ;-)

TCP - I would argue that Hinske is the first name we have considered that has the potential to be a building block. Dunn is a DH type, Baldelli had potential but also had huge injury question marks, Grandpa Gonzo, 'nuff said, Pedro Martinez would be Morris revisited etc. etc. No, Hinske is not being brought in as a starter. Those pots need to go the our young guns, buta successful team needs 25 contributors and Hinske can be a contributor.

DM--has to be Morgan over Hinske unless Spring Training radically dictates otherwise IMO

Either Hinske is great idea or the staff ha secretly increased all our meds. We haven't been this agreeable overall for a long time. When even the venerable Hostage agrees with the majority its as you say Jose a gold star day :)

@ NH: I think we all tend to discuss the points we disagree over as conversations where we all agree would be, well, boring! That said there is likely a lot of ground we all have in common here.

@ Arriba: Thank you - sort of a tribute to his ability to just sort of stand there - motionless.

That is why I refer to the a LaRoche at each corner of the infield as The Eater Island Infield. The Indiffernet One has that same expression on him as the statues on Easter Island.

I think I read too much when I was a kid. Probably read too much now...

Jose

Any predictions on who would fall off of the 40-man roster?

@ All: Correct that! It should be "The Easter island Infield."

Need to sign free agent fingers...

Jose

What I value in a bench player is some decent pop - which Hinske has, but, what I would like to know is what happened for the desire for a right handed bat? Will it be Philips? Monroe?

Okay, this IS scary....I'd prefer Hinske over Gonzo also.  Nurse Ratchett must have seriously upped our meds!  :-)

I think I saw a couple of new posters...welcome and settle in.  Your meds will be along soon, in the mean time someone will fit you for your jackets, with room assignments to follow.

My Take on Hinske;

I think he would be a good pickup also, unfortuneatly we don't have a manager that likes to match up, this guy would be great to bring to the plate with a right hander on the mound in a crucial situation, but since match ups are out, JR is likely to try to use him with a left hander on the mound and his track record is he doesn't hit left handers.

Since he has more power, he probably is the best candidate that we have talked about for a bench player.

Ideally pinch hitting him against a right hander and Pierce against a left hander would be the way to go.

Well folks, as the snow gently falls and as the warm fuzzies from what may be the versed or too much elavil fills my veins, I bid you all adieu.

Until tomorrow, when hopefully Mr Hinske comes into the fold, or Bobby Abreu...

Mon dieu...keep safe...

Jose

LV--Barthmeier would be my prediction to fall off the 40-man.  We could almost insure that we could keep him even if he's not on the 40-man if we sent a video of his June start last year at the major league level---2.1 innings pitched, 27.00 ERA.

Spring training is where the decisions on who starts get made on positions that are not set.  However, before considering who starts someone has be be signed to compete.

40 man not a big worry now that the Rule 5 is over.  My first guess would be Uviedo

@JAL--

Spring training is where the decisions on who starts get made on positions that are not set.  However, before considering who starts someone has be be signed to compete.

The starting positions are already set.

Sorry, JAL, I thought the assumption behind DM's question was IF Hinske is signed, what do you do ?

@Jose...Have a good night.

Probably a pitcher would come off.  Barthmeier's a good guess, AW.

DMac--

I think Barthmeier would have to clear wavers for us to keep him, but I think your on the right track, it will be someone like him or him.

@JAL wrote re: Pirates, Hinske discuss contract

on Jan 27, 2009 10:02 PM

Spring training is where the decisions on who starts get made on positions that are not set.  However, before considering who starts someone has be be signed to compete.

______________

Party pooper, killing everyones fun with valid facts.  More meds for you sir.

If we sign either of these guys then I'll be interested in seeing how much more Bobby Abreu would have cost us. If we are looking for a leftie outfielder then I think he should be at the top of our list.

Best bet to come off the roster:  Luis Cruz.

Zero chance of Barthmaier coming off.  He's a good prospect.  One start doesn't mean anything.  Won't be Uviedo, either.

@Mad--

The lineup is set, competition is to see who else makes the club.

Just curious, what positions do you think are up for grabs or that competition will affect.

Been lurking awhile -- but not wanting to post while things are still in the speculative stage -- but should this go through, it looks like we'll have a decent bench.  

Still need that right handed starting pitcher.  

Oh, and how about this -- Coiach Mientkiewicz???

Time to call it a night though.  

Remember I'm pullin' for ya'.  We're all in this together.

@WTM==

Cruz is probably one of those guys that will be fighting to make the roster, I think they like him as a utility player. I agree Barthmaier would be tough to lose if he did not clear wavers.

WTM--I know one start isn't the end of the world, but I saw it and it made me think, "Hey, JVB may not be so bad." :)

Oh, and if they would somehow manage to hire Mientkiewicz as a coach I want him in AA teaching them while they're young.  

Pipe dream, but hey!?

They can DFA Cruz and he'll still probably be contending for a roster spot as a minor league invitee.  I can't imagine anybody would claim him on waivers.  I'm sure they like his glove, but I can't imagine their judgment is so bad that they view him as more than a marginal AAAA type player, which is what he is.

Rosenthal, not from the Bob Woodward school of journalism, relies on one major league source to report Bucs likely to sign Hinske by Wednesday.  See full story on Fox ...

msn.foxsports.com/.../INF-Hinske

My take on positions not set--3rd base and two outfield positions.  There are leaders in each but not set in stone.  

WTM

Why not Uviedo--he has never pitched above A and only has 2 minor league seasons.  They can put him back on later.

@leadoff wrote re: Pirates, Hinske discuss contract

on Jan 27, 2009 10:20 PM

@Mad--

The lineup is set, competition is to see who else makes the club.

Just curious, what positions do you think are up for grabs or that competition will affect.

______________

I was responding to JAL's comment.

But if you ask me I don’t think the positions are carved in granite.  I think that, if someone like Morgan, Moss, ADLA or ANLA does not hit in spring that Pearce, Hinske, Monroe, or someone else will get to start if they play well in ST.  If not then they are showing the same bad judgment as they did with the starting pitching last year.  Unlike last year when we did not have anyone to take their place in the line-up we do have options with the fielders.

But again my response was to JAL pointing out the obvious fact that the guy is not signed yet.

Uviedo has more upside and would stand a much better chance of getting claimed.  The guy throws 94 mph with good control and a very good change.  Good-glove, no-hit infielders like Cruz grow on trees.  They just signed two very similar players (Pedro Lopez and Anderson Machado) to minor league deals.

@JAL--

My take on positions not set--3rd base and two outfield positions.  There are leaders in each but not set in stone.  

You are correct, nothing is set in stone, anything can happen, but Lil LaRoach would have to be worse than he was in Sept. and be unable to hit ST pitching to lose 3rd base, I also don't know who would beat him out, Walker still needs another year in AAA. Moss doesn't have anyone I can think of that will beat him out either. That leaves LF, Nijer would have to have a terrible spring, even then I don't know who is going to beat him out either, they just don't show enough love for Pierce for me to think he will win a position in ST, course if he hits a bunch of homers they might reconsider him.

Leadoff

I agree that Pearce is not getting a fair shot.  I think he should so long as he improves on the offspeed pitch.  But you can't adjust when on the bench.  He needs to play to prove it one way or another.  He has the power and is right handed...  Not sure what's up with him and the FO.  Did't they just say that he would be an option?

Just a general comment on the "positions not set" issue.  I know it was the previous administration, but two years ago Gorzo had a terrible spring and the PBC, in its infinite wisdom, took him over Burnett, who had a great spring as I recall, and it turned out it was Gorzo's breakout season.  I, for one, at the time thought they were crazy, but they apparently knew what they were doing, at least on that one decision.  I guess the main point is Spring is important, but performance alone in the spring is not necessarily determinative, and rightly so.

@Mad--

I subscribe to the Bob Walk school of thought when it comes to ST, I believe that the team knows anywhere from 22 to 23 guys that are going to make this team out of ST, and anything else they say is said to keep the players competing, I think Pierce probably does need more time in AAA to work on that off speed pitch problem he has, he certainly can't fix it sitting on the bench.

When I say 22-23, they probably don't have all the pitchers set yet that will come north, there will be some battles for the 5th starter and the last reliever.

There might be a battle between Bixler and Cruz also to make this roster.

@Arriba--

Good point with Gorzo, I agree.

Arriba

Correct--spring performance can be misleading.  Fortunately, spring errors can usually be quickly rectified--as with Burnett and Gorzo.

@JAL wrote re: Pirates, Hinske discuss contract

on Jan 27, 2009 11:13 PM

Arriba

Correct--spring performance can be misleading.  Fortunately, spring errors can usually be quickly rectified--as with Burnett and Gorzo.

____

I agree as well.  I have to step out so I will catch you all later.

@G-Man - "I'm going out on a limb here and guess we're not going to sign Manny."

Your such a funny guy! Love reading your posts, as usual!

@Duke84 - "Dougie love - it's driving me mad, making me crazy..."

Sung to the tune of Steve Miller's "Jungle Love," I take it ... one of my favorite all-time songs ... for obvious reasons: I'm such a lover!

@JLP - Boy, this is getting too close for comfort. For a short time only; I've got "Dirty Doug delivers The Sermon on the Mount" collector's plate available at 50% off. Supplies are limited, so don't delay."

JLP, I laughed so hard at that post, that hot cappucino came out my nose, AND my false teeth fell in the floor!

Oh. And I'm down for Hinske. Just play him against righties if Donnie can't weave his magic on getting him to hit lefties.

I don't disagree that Hinske COULD be a building block...BUT, he's 31 years old AND I would have to imagine that he's not being looked at as anything other than a one year plug in player...Even a 2 year player, do we consider a 2 year contract a player we are building with?  I think we might all have different opinions on that one...I say no...but some might say yes....

I suppose I just am looking at some of our signings and just imagine that if we did save some of that money to spend on those 1 or 2 FA's...that'd be a great way to give the current teams a competitive edge and give more than enough room to fill those other openings up from within...

BUT, that is why I coach basketball instead of being a GM for the Buccos...lol

Ahh and I DO like Hinske the best...but, only if we can take a 2 year deal w/ the hopes of letting him become a true clubhouse leader and someone that we could have stick for possibly a 3rd or 4th year...Ahh well, at least we're all on the same team in here

Always dreaming of that parade in downtown Pittsburgh for our Buccos

Bay:  <JLP, I laughed so hard at that post, that hot cappucino came out my nose, AND my false teeth fell in the floor!>

Bless your heart.  First, marshmallowey jackets, now coffee stained boogers and dusty false teeth.  You poor thing.

JAL, and later, Thunder: Thanks for the Hinske "Why so poorly in '06 and '07?" answers.  In fact, it was the reference to 3B being Hinske's natural position that got me to thinking...

I know everybody (GROSS GENERALIZATION THAT MAY NOT APPLY TO ANYBODY IN PARTICULAR) is saying, "Run the young guys out there and let them play," and "Those starting spots need to go to our young guns."

WHY?

Why not give Hinske a legitimate chance at winning third base from Little-A?

I agree with Plenty, here.  One of our biggest advantages going into Spring Training this year is that we expect competition for starting pitching positions.  Why can't we have competitions in the field?  Because maybe somebody might not make it based on merit?

*grumble*

I'm still not sold on signing Hinske, but if he is, I would dang sure make it clear to AnLa that he can't just coast into a starting job this year...  And that he has to show the _will_ to play in the majors, not just the talent.

Last but not least, there is detriment to running a ballplayer out there every day before he is ready.  I don't have the instances at my fingertips, but I know that it's been discussed here before, and I know that there have been excellent examples of prospects who've suffered from rushing to the bigs too soon.  If a young gun gets legitimately beat out for a spot, so be it.  Go to Indy, knock the everlovin snot outta the ball (Back to Bay's cappuchino, I see...) and get your ticket back to the bigs.

Amen.  Alleluia.

SirLox - Check in over on the other stuff thread. I'm leaving a video, dedicated to you!

I would like to see Hinske signed.  He's a great guy to be able to plug into a lineup when you are giving somebody else a day off, or to push somebody to perform.  He is a solid replacement at four positions if someone were to go on the DL and be out for an extended period.

*trip trap trip trap trip trap*

www.youtube.com/watch