Minicamp, Day 1: Get to work

Two good things.  They're reporting in shape, and they believe in themselves.

Oh, yeah, and I'd settle for 50 degrees, we're at -4 heading for maybe -20 or less.  Before wind chill.  

That's a wonderful sight...a nice green baseball field and players ready to get to work.

Thanks, DK for the update.  

I don't want to go over the top here with my enthusiasm, but with so many showing up in obviously better shape, it would seem that a message was sent and that that message was received.

Anyway, we’re off to a good start.

Being in shape is so important--doesn't guarantee you will perform well but being out of shape usually guarantees you will not perform well.

JHader, nice to see the Iowa contingent is at it already this morning.  Wicked cold here with a bad snow storm.  Yes, I wish I was at the minicamp.  Baseball reminds me of green grass and warmth.  I'd take either right about now.

I met Capps while in Pittsburgh last summer.  Stand up gentleman, firm handshake.  He was very nice to me and the mrs.  I hope he stays healthy this year.  He's a terror on the mound when healthy.

Good Morning all!!!

It would appear that the Pirates are pretty close on their starting 8, however the pitching is really up in the air for the 5th spot.

In my opinion, the pitchers going north appear to be Maholm, Gorzo, Snell, Olendorf, Burnett, Capps, Yates. The rest of the staff to me will come from whoever is pitching best in ST.

There is mention that we could not get Nady from the Yankees, because they would want to much, but it is always possible that we could get him in a 3 way deal, say with Washington? I really believe we need one more solid outfielder for this team this year, call Nady a rent a player for one year, McCuthen should be ready for 2010. If it doesn't work out let him go at the trading deadline.

On my 2nd trip to Pittsburgh last summer my dad and I bumped into Karstens, a week or so after his almost no-hitter.  He's got a lot of family in Iowa.  Anyway, he was most excited about Ohlendorf joining the team.  He said everyone was talking about it.  He needs a bit of development, but I'd be ready to put my money down on Ohlendorf.

According to DK, the Pirates are very high on Ohlendorf as well.  It's great to see so many guys there and in shape...I'm trying not to get overly-excited, but I just help myself.  *grin*

Capps is a very good guy...I've only had a couple of very brief exchanges with him, but he was awesome both times.  

Morning 3G -- Just curious, how is it that you "bump into" these guys?  Do you have some kind of connection, or are the players just out and about and running into tourists?

JHader, When I  go to Pittsburgh I spoil myself and stay at the hotel right across the street from PNC Park.  Capps was running into the office for something (very pretty young lady waiting for him in the car outside) and Karstens was having a Pepsi at the hotel bar.  I may stay downtown next time to get a feel for the area.  I'm planning on moving their within a few years.  I want to live and work close enough to PNC Park to easily get to every game.

GGG

Just be careful that when you "bump" into them you do not injure them :)

Noon links

The Drill: Tales of two cities

www.jsonline.com/.../37546539.html

Insignificant Signings?

www.rototimes.com/.../Insignificant-Signings-

Repost from the morning thread

HEAR YE HEAR YE MEMBERS OF THE ASYLUM

After much consideration of such things as the NFL playoffs, it has been determined that the next gathering should be scheduled for Sunday, January 25, at Vincents.  Time?  11 am, noon, 1 pm?  Flexible.

Responses, suggestions,and comments go to Jersey Joe at tjfran@comcast.net

JAL, Matt Capps hand alone could crush my whole body.  Very nice firm handshake... almost destroyed my tiny tyranosaurus arms.  Honest to God his arms are as big as my legs.

GGG

Glad that you survived.  Having met several power pitchers I can verify that their hands can crush a body.  Biggest I ever encountered was Sidney Ponson--with his body I am surprised he hasn't had a better career.

Ken,

"it would seem that a message was sent and that that message was received"

I'm curious which message you are referring to?

The one that players should report to spring training in good physical condition?

or

The one that this owner and front office have no desire or commitment to winning as evidenced by the lack of meaningful acquisitions this winter.

Judging by the recent comments of both Jack Wilson and Ian Snell it would seem that message was sent and received as well.

Hostage

Many messages sent and received.  The context of Kens post indicates the he is referring to the message of reporting in shape.

No meaningful acquisitions?  What about the two Indian pitchers :)

NH,

"The one that this owner and front office have no desire or commitment to winning as evidenced by the lack of meaningful acquisitions this winter."

1st tier and 2nd tier FA's (CC, Tex, etc.) will not consider the PBC right now because they don't have to in order to get the money they want along with the opportunity to win right now. This club is not one player away, it's 3-5 players away and the agent of any decent FA knows that.  By the time you get to the 3rd tier, you pick your spots and try to get your guy, which it seems like was the case with Turnbow and Cabrera. Why did Tex go to the Yankees instead of Washington even though the money was reported to be comparable and he was from the area? NYY can win now and the Nats can't. The Nats chose to make their case public in order to show their fan base they were "serious" about winning when privately they had to know they had no chance. FC and the crew chose not to waste anyone's time. Different methods for the same result.  

JAL,

Agreed.

Just reminding Ken that other messages have been sent and received.

It will be interesting to see when it is all said and done the influence these various messages will have on the year end results.

While improved conditioning is certainly a positive development (Though not necessarily original, it should be that way anyway), I can't help but think that an owner and front office committed to winning, and one that actually backs those words up with actions, would have greater influence in the year end win column than the improved physical condition of a rag tag bunch of AAA caliber players.

In other words, maybe the players do their part. - Get in shape and perform to the best of their limited abilities, but at the end of the day you aren't going to win too many Daytona 500 races in a Ford Focus. The owner and front office has deliberately failed the players, fans, and the sport and their perverted sense of one way accountability is not going to do much to motivate the players.

Although not a huge deal, I'm kind of disappointed Andy LaRoche is not there with the other invitees....

Hostage <<meaningful acquisitions >>

Did you expect or hope that they would not stick to their stated position of not being a major player in the FA market this season?

Where's your Nutting Buster avatar?

Ken,

I expected FC to stick to his stated commitment of working hard and building a championship caliber team.

Based on the results of this off season it appears he did not stick to either of those.

Andy LaRoche not showing up when invited is a HUGE issue for me.

HUGE.

If Sean Burnett can run with strep throat - and if any of you, as I have, have had strep as an adult, it kicks your butt twice as hard as most anything else - then Andy can show up. Srsly. I'm not saying he's sick or where he is, I'm just saying the effort - the commitment. Necessary.

NuttingHostage - the offseason is not over yet.

Hostage  <<I can't help but think that an owner and front office committed to winning, and one that actually backs those words up with actions, would have greater influence in the year end win column than the improved physical condition of a rag tag bunch of AAA caliber players.>>

I'm hoping that that was last year's mistake, and that it will not recur again.

I agree that it is disappointing that the new management didn’t have that aspect covered last year. Players should want to do all that they can to advance their carrier and win, but if I was the new management team last year, I would not have assumed that so many young players would demonstrate the maturity of veterans. Unfortunately, a bunch of 20 something’s with more money than they know what to do with decided that it was OK to party a little during the off season and showed up less than ready to play at the major league level.

Looks like this year is different; I’m not giving them credit for that because that is the type of thing that should go without saying. However, perhaps it implies that they’re not too stupid to learn from the mistakes of the past.

@420-

Although not a huge deal, I'm kind of disappointed Andy LaRoche is not there with the other invitees....

Mini is supposed to be for pitchers and catchers and is only 4 days, why would you want LaRoach there? I understand he has been working with Don Long all winter in Washington and we know what happened with Bay when he worked all winter with Long in Washington.

Hostage

Maybe he didn't stick to it or maybe he couldn't--reports are that they offered as much or more to a few players but didn't get them.  They tried to trade Wilson but seemed to want too much and least they not bend and then trade him for nothing.  Seems the past group would have traded Wilson for a couple of bats to get rid of his salary.  It may or may not work out--they may be able to get more for him at mid-season when a contender loses their SS to injury, or they might not--rolling the dice.

Also, signings are still going on.  Tom Boswell had a story in the Washington Post this morning about how now the big FAs are signed  the salaries for the rest are dropping into a cheaper area and may come down more--no one is offering Manny, Dunn, Hudson, or Wolf anything near what they want so their demands might well come down.  That is basically how they got DD last season in Feb., no one was offering what he wanted so he settled for less.  Off-season still going on so don't close the books just yet.

Thanks for the update, DK.

Maybe Andy got delayed somewhere...I hope he shows up.  *crosses fingers*   If he doesn't show up...oh boy, not good...I hope he's got a good reason.

POH

Hello and good-bye--must be off soon.  Your last line on the off-season and mine are almost the same :)

My question is: Did the coaches, the whole bunch of team personnel, and others show up in shape too ?

NH -- Welcome back...  but we miss your avatar.  Are you planning a new one or going back to the old standard -- or maybe just sticking with Lamont Cranston?

Going to be rooting for the Bucs in 2009?  I know you make statements just to get us going, but how on earth do you know how hard FC worked or didn't?  I mean are you following him around or what?  Or is it just that you didn't like we hid did and decided not do do?  ;-)  .  Let's be fair and balanced about this.  

How'd the deer season play out?

JAL - can you make it on the 25th?

Hostage

They stated going into FA season that they weren’t going to play big. To do otherwise would be straying from their plan of building through the draft, Latin America, and sound trades.

We have been over all this time and again, and it is still the same off-season. Nothing is likely to change until next off-season if then. There are no two or three players out there that can make this team a contender if the players that are already here aren’t good enough to carry their share of the load.

The cold hard fact is that we really don’t know if the players that we think are the core of the future can fill those shoes. WE have so many uncertainties that there is no way to be certain of our greatest needs and where we should spend our resources. Many people were thinking that the pitching was going to be our greatest strength this time last year; we know how that turned out.

I don’t expect any major FA acquisitions until their record and their place in the standings demands that action be taken. Until then, it would just be a waste of funds to appease an impatient populous.

DK - you da man!

Now, about that beard report.....

Glad to see LaRoche showed....

Leadoff -

I know hes not expected to be there, but I just felt him not being there could perhaps even further anger the fans towards laroche especially after his season last year.....

DK any new additions to Pirate city itself?

@420-

Well DK explained the LaRoach deal in his update,  that should end speculation about him.

You were right, anything the Pirates do or don't do is a big deal. Doesn't take much to anger people.

DK

Maybe they will let you participate in the running drills as preparation for the pierogi races.

NH - I take issue with one thing you said (the rest of it has been valid, to whatever extent).  I wouldn't go so far to call as to call these guys a "rag tag bunch of AAA caliber players," whether you're referring to the guys in mincamp, or the team as a whole.  It's one thing to throw that kind of stuff at the owner, but not so much with the players.  

Last year at minicamp we heard that Doumit and Malholm showed up in great shape.  Gorzo and Paulino not so much.  Struggling through the year because of it, we all saw the results.  I hope that was long term wake-up call.  If it has been, then we've got the realistic hope of three quality true-major league level SP's in Snell, Gorzo, and Maholm.

Personally, I hope Veale finds his control.  Or most of it. Kind of a Nuke LaLouche thing.  Hit the bull Donnie!

I can identify with what Hostage is saying.

From my point of view the most important tranaction this off season was their Rule 5 pick, with the trade for Jaramillo coming in second.

"That's him at 75 percent" is music to my ears.

DK - bless your heart on the observations and you get the BSKOF for the day.

LaRoche - excused. Being THERE is the issue right now for me. The want to. We don't need another No. 6.

Dejan - I wish I could say I was at Pirates mini-camp in the 61 degree Florida weather now.  I better never hear you complain about your job.... :)

PoH -

>>Now, about that beard report.<<

Whole bunch of guys with those Rick Nash-like lame chinny chin chin whiskers with no other facial hair. At least, that's my prediction. But we all know you really want to know if any of them are growing beards all the way down their necks.

Sounds like Matt Capps has really shaped up, being away from your cookies for a few months. ;-)

Cave -

I'll mention something JAL pointed out to me a few weeks back. The most significant off-season move is probably the naming of the pitching coach. I know what you meant, but the potential impact of Kerrigan is much greater than any player move, it would seem.

Dejan,

"Beastly 6.66 ERA"

Great line.  Your "good stuff" is noticed and appreciated.

It may be mini-camp, but YOU are obviously not going at 75%.

PoH -

I nearly levitated out of my chair when I read that AnLa was absent but came back to earth when I read the follow-up. Still, he needs to show me he's not lazy to convince me he is someone we want on our team. Everything I saw and read of him last year screamed that "L" word to me. How did those of you who saw him more than me feel about that?

The only one who impresses me coming to camp in great shape is YOU, Dejan!  You are not a professional athlete.  Every year I just have to roll my eyes at the reports of so-and-so reporting "in the best shape of (my) life."  For heaven's sake!  It is their JOB to be in shape---ALWAYS!  For the life of me I can't comprehend how some who have been granted great gifts of talent just don't get it.  Really.  How dare they  reap ridiculous monetary rewards to play a game while shirking a basic responsibility of working to earn those rewards?  For an athlete, staying in shape is fundamental to playing at the top of one's game every day.  Coming to camp out of condition is a huge insult---to me (and fans in general), to your teammates, and to the organization that hands you that bloated check.  

There...I feel better now.  

Sure hope all this conditioning translates to performance on the field...

Totally cool...Andy is there...good for him!  

Veal is throwing bullets at 75%?  Seriously?  Sweet.  

I'll put on my sunglasses and dream of that warm Florida sun.

and DK...You rock, if we haven't said that before.  ;-)

I want YouTube video of you levitating, Gman. Srsly.

KMRempel - I hear what you're saying about it being their job, but c'mon. Have you seen Prince Fielder? Do you know how much he gets paid?

PoH -

Re a video of me levitating: I'll see what I can do. I'm sure it will be uplifting.

I don't know if anyone else found this funny but me - I decided not to read through to see if anyone else had.

DK - "Kerrigan estimated that most pitchers were throwing at about 60-75 percent, "wherever their programs have them right now." So, I asked about Veal, who was throwing bullets. "That's him at 75 percent," Kerrigan replied."

I thought that was HILARIOUS! and LMGluteusMaximusOff!

It reminded me of that scene in Magnificent 7 where Horst Bucholz had just witnessed James Coburn taking his pistol, taking deft aim and shooting one of Calvera's men off a horse at, oh, 200 yards.

"That was a great shot!" the young, impressionable Bucholz gleefully exclaimed! Then he says, "What's wrong," as Coburn drops his head.

"I was aiming for the horse."

@Cave - "My question is: Did the coaches, the whole bunch of team personnel, and others show up in shape too ?"

If you make less than $330,000 per year, you don't have to do that. That's one of the reasons the players make the big bucks :-)

It pretty much applies to life, too. Most millionaire's look very healthy ... and most poor people, very slovenly.

@Plenty - "Now, about that beard report....."

OK, DK, here it is, fastball, no movement on it, right over the heart of the plate, in yer wheelhouse: "WHAT DOES DOUMIT LOOK LIKE?"

Those bullets that Veal was throwing -- were they strikes?

JHadar - LOL on your "were they strikes?" question. Good Q. Srsly.

That avatar is just the best, BTW.

<< That avatar is just the best, BTW. >>

I thank you.  Sport says "Wuff!"

Alright, Sport ... For many, many years who was the greatest home run hitter of all time ... gonna lead you just a little here ... George Herman ...

"Roof. Roof." Attaboy, Sport!

When Jeff Andrews was hired last year one of his selling points was his closeness to the young pitchers. Do any of us think he may have, in retrospect, been too close. It is a lot harder to be tough on a friend than on an employee. Could it be knowing "good old Jeff" was the boss the pitchers lost their competitive edge. Maybe they worked a little harder this winter, not knowing exactly how the new boss would be.

  Obviously we would like them all to be true professionals and work their hardest no matter what but in the real world there needs to be a boss not just a buddy in charge to keep everyone at the top of their game.

Plenty---

Prince Fielder is MOST insulting!  Neither know (nor care) what he gets paid.  I truly feel that any pro athlete who disrespects his own body does the same to his teammates and the fans.  Who knows how much more productive (and healthy---i.e. "longevity") he'd be if he weren't lugging a semi with him around the field?  

DK---agree on the wittiness of your "Beastly 6.66."   Hell's bells, you're on your game!

Bay -- Has anyone mentioned that we think you're clever -- in a twisted genius sort of way.

Hostage, welcome back, I was worried about you.  

The asylum gets too "sticky sweet" sometimes, optimism is a good thing, but TBH, I'm not buying it this year.  Will bleed black and gold as per usual, but IMO, this is gonna be a bad year.

Hostage, you give balance and that is a good thing.

Its like eating broccoli with your steak...  ; }

So, DK, what's everyone doing tonight? Havin' something yummy to eat, and hangin' out, watching the Bradenton YT video? Is that bar still open or did those Sheriff's Department bullies have their way and close it down?

Baywatch -

>>So, DK, what's everyone doing tonight?<<

Be alert. Rumor has it the boys may be ordering some pizzas from somewhere in Texas.

I've checked out the map, G-Man. We've got a short cut we can take, across the gulf, and be over there in 6 hours. Thinking is it's so warm down there, they'll be more interested in cold pizza.

We're on standby ... let's just hope we have more of an open channel of communication than Opey and Dirty Doug's last agent had.

@ Baywatch

Loved the Magnificent Seven reference and I also thought that comment was pretty funny