Pirates still on Baldelli's trail

Hairston Jr. is slotted to start at short for the Reds.  That said, he may have eaten up Cincy's Roccodollars, just as Burrell did in Tampa. If Boston is one of the AL teams, the Pirates are competing against his hometown team.

The question is how many Roccodollars would Rocco want to play in Pittsburgh? Any contract here has to be seriously incentive-laden, as the Pirates have little room for (further) multimillion dollar mistakes.

The Pirates need a power hitting right handed bat. Wow, after trading two power hitting bats [Bay & Nady]. This is scary.

@Duke84, this is the time you take a chance IMO,

Sign him!

The Pirates are approaching him from the right stance; we have very few dollars to gamble with. Heavy on incentives is as it should be, try to pay for play.

He can be a good fit for this team, and we may be the right fit for him too. In his mind, it should boil down to “where’s the best situation that I can exploit toward revitalizing my carrier”. He may become an instant starter here if he can handle the work load, but if he needs a little extra rest, we have adequate OFs to provide the break.

The MLB network suggested Braden Looper for the Pirates rotation. Oh yeah, I forgot they won't sign a quality free agent unless they're in a position to contend. Someone let me know when that happens.

GREAT news that it's apparently down to 3 and the Pirates are hanging tough!

Sadly, I have a feeling the stupid DH rule will be the reason we end up falling short. A guy with fatigue issues will probably weigh that pretty heavily. Doesn't take much effort to swing a bat 4 or 5 times a game!

I hope I'm wrong about the DH though...I want Rocco in the black and gold so bad!

That stuff about DHing may just have been Jocketty covering his own butt for signing Hairston instead of Baldelli, in case Baldelli has the better year.

Demery

No, they would sign a quality FA if the terms were right for them.  Looper is type B not a type A, which the Pirates would not have to  give up a draft position for him.  At age 34 and as  type B he should not expect top money.  

If the Pirates feel he fits what they need and talks with his agent show possibility they could go after him.  They have repeated say they want a veteran pitcher.

Hi Demery -- still playing hit and run with nothing to add?

Would love to get Rocco.... I think with the new diagnosis, he'll be a potentially VERY solid pickup.

I'll ask permission to speak on here next time Hadar. Now you can go back to your delusional world about the Pirates contending.

Demery

JH delusional--that why we call it an asylum :)

Seriously, engage in the discussion-that's why the place is interactive.

The Pirates will probably lose out on Badelli like they have lost out on Turnbow or any other free agent that the Pirates had have interest in this off season.

Careful there Bucco51, how dare you give an opinion that isn't popular?

I think that the Pirates will win 100 games with a roster of AAAA players.

Ramon Vasquez will be MVP.

The Pirates will sweep the Yankees in 4 games to win the World Series.

Is that better?

My thinking is this: if Baldelli wants to revive his career - while still young at 27 - then he would want to exploit all his talents (speed, power, fielding, etc.), not just his hitting.  By him staying in the American League and DH'ing a lot would not realize that goal.

Henceforth, alas, therefore, yada yada,  he selects a National League team, ie., the Pirates.  

Demery --

Come on.  It has nothing to do with whether your opinion is popular or not.  It's just hard to have a discussion when you open and shut the case in the same post. *g*

Demery -- you don't need my permission to speak; it would just be nice if you had something to say.  It's easy to take cheap shots.

Actually, I think your point of view is probably popular enough.  It's just that there are a number of posters who back their statements up with facts, reasoning, passion and so on.  All I've ever seen you do is take cheap shots.  If those were funny, you'd have something going for you.  

Please forgive me if you are still in junior high school, because then your way of presenting your opinion would be normal, and we shouldn't be bothered by it.

Over the last 4 years Baldelli has played 0, 92, 35, and 28 games.  The previous 2 years he hit around .285 with ~14 home runs and 75 RBI.  He actually sounds like a perfect pickup for the late Bonifay and especially the Littlefield era.

By all means, let's pick up a brittle OF and pay him a pile of money rather than playing our young guys like Pearce and McCutchen everyday.

I hate that the Pirates have put us in such a terrible frame of mind that any of us would seriously entertain picking this guy up based on the fact that he used to be a highly rated 5 tool prospect because nobody else would want to come here...especially after letting Bay and Nady go last year.

Wikipedia entry on channelopathies:

en.wikipedia.org/.../Channelopathy

Quote:

"The channelopathies of human skeletal muscle include hyper-, hypo- and normokalemic (high, low and normal potassium blood concentrations) periodic paralysis, myotonia congenita and paramyotonia congenita."

Given his muscle weakness, it's likely one from this group.

Baldelli-specific links:

www.associatedcontent.com/.../report_channelopathy_may_be_rocco_baldellis.html

www.abc6.com/.../36277274.html

mvn.com/.../what-on-earth-is-wrong-with-rocco-baldelli.html

Quote (comparison to original mitochondrial disease diagnosis):

"In that light, the newer diagnosis makes a bit more sense. An increased amount of fatigue likely means that Baldelli is not having an issue with generating or storing the energy his muscles need, but rather an issue with successfully recovering from the work that his muscles are doing when they are active.

How does that link to channelopathy? It doesn't, exactly. Channelopathy itself is merely a blanket term for a family of roughly two dozen diseases, all of which are channel pathologies - diseases involving the body's ion transport channels. Still confused? The cells in the body regulate the transport of everything across their membranes using sodium, potassium, and chloride (ions), and calcium is a key component in the muscle's use of ATP to contract.

Baldelli, since he specifically has problems with muscle fatigue, likely has one of the two channelopathies that are linked to skeletal muscle. The first is called kalemic periodic paralysis, which is almost exactly what it sounds like. Kalemia, specifically hypo- or hyperkalemia, refers to an unusually high or low concentration of potassium in the muscle cells due to leakage either from the cells into the blood stream or vice versa. The periodic paralysis is exactly that, where due to the potassium imbalance, some muscle cells become either periodically or in some cases permanently paralyzed, leading to inhibited muscle movement.

The other is called myotonia congenita. The congenita name simply means that the disease is usually congenital, or acquired genetically. This disease actually appears as either myotonia or paramyotonia, a small distinction. Again, the myo- refers to the muscle, and -tonia refers to muscle tone. Myotonia is an illness where the muscles have difficulty relaxing

and regaining their initial tone after contracting. The distinction between the two is simply whether the condition is alleviated by exercise, like myotonia, or made worse by it, like paramyotonia.

This illness is most commonly seen in what are commonly called "fainting goats." Babay goats who develop this illness neveractually suffer any physical harm, but any time they are startled (and thusly flex their muscles quickly), they tense up and are unable to relax quicky, causing them to tip over or "faint."

This disease sounds much more like Baldelli's condition. He has muscle fatigue, and that fatigue is made worse when he endures prolonged bouts of exercise. Obviously he doesn't have the worst case of any of these scenarios, since he isn't experiencing any actual paralysis in his muscles. Where this is most relevant to Baldelli is in his defense out in center field. Myotonia is most often visible when an afflicted individual is forced to make sudden and/or forceful movements. Because the muscles struggle to relax properly, any sudden movements (muscle contractions) that are either fast, forceful, or both, can cause the muscle

to lock up once it has done its job, causing the sprinter to either slow down or freeze completely.

Fortunately, it is very treatable, especially if the newer diagnosis is an accurate one, and Baldelli should be able to get his illness under control and go to sign whatever free agent contract his heart desires"

But wait - there's more:

en.wikipedia.org/.../Myotonia_congenita

Treatment

Some cases of myotonia congenita do not require treatment. If necessary, however, symptoms of the disorder may be relieved with quinine, phenytoin, and mexiletine and other anticonvulsant drugs. Physical therapy and other rehabilitative measures may also be used to help muscle function. Genetic counseling is available.

Hey, we do have world class health care in Pittsburgh, right?  If Rocco falls ill he'll be in good hands.  

Anyway, the old Italian ladies from Bloomfield won't let him miss too many games. They'll be sending him wedding soup, etc.  I say get him.

BTW, sounds like McClatchy needs some money...

Duke -- Excellent research.  

BTW -- new thread.  McClatchy has given up his interest in the Pirates

================================================

Baldelli playing 3-4 games a week would still be more productive then both Moss and Morgan playing every day, combined. lol. Well, that might be a stretch, but the fact is you can play Baldelli, get a ton of production (in theory) and rest him for Morgan and/or Moss every 3-5 games. Until either of those proves otherwise, they haven't been very production at all offensively. In fact, they've both have offensive offenses. With Moss and Morgan playing every day, we'd be lucky to get 15-20 HR's and 75 RBI's combined. Rocco can do that himself, even getting the rest he'll need.

Sign him.

Though in al likelyhood, and based upon all the previous free agent news, we're going to hear he signed elsewhere for just above bottom dollar with the Pirates front office disapointed, though they themselves never even made an offer. Too funny, or... not :(

RE: "My thinking is this: if Baldelli wants to revive his career - while still young at 27 - then he would want to exploit all his talents (speed, power, fielding, etc.), not just his hitting."

Yeah, but he could still play the field in the AL. The DH would allow him to play on days when he would not be able to play in the field though. I don't put a ton of faith in Jocketty's comments about him wanting to DH, but for a guy with fatigue problems, it would certainly make a ton of sense.

Plus, you have to figure the ability to DH would greatly enhance his ability to reach performance targets, right? Most all performance bonuses are based on starts, plate appearances and other various offensive stats, so if the DH gives him an extra 15-20 (maybe even more) games, that's something he's gotta take into consideration.

WFP  (Wieters)

Welcome to the asylum.  We have several threads today.

WFP

BTW--We have been discussing Pearce today--many of us think he is not ready to hit MLB pitching--can't hit breaking balls and well located fastballs.

If the Pirates get Baldelli, he could win the MVP. Unless Vasquez beats him out.

Dem,

While Baldelli might not be the prize of the FA market, he is EXACTLY the type of player the Pirates need to be looking at and it is very refreshing to see them still in the running.

He is a low risk pickup, with the potential to be an all-star caliber player. What's not to like about that?

hey, didnt the pirates think Nate Mclouth wasnt up to everyday playing either like Nyger??  i'd rather have morgan in the field then moss.  nyger-LF, nate-CF, ROOOOOCCCCCCCCOOOOO-RF

Baldelli we could use the bat even for one year.  Morgan does not excite me in the least for a long term or everyday player.  If we could get him at a base pay )reasonable) then with the incentives sure go for it. Only because this is an area of need this year.

@Demery44 <<Careful there Bucco51, how dare you give an opinion that isn't popular?>>

Opinions are just that, and all kinds are welcome; however, it gets tiring to have to endure countless posts that offer nothing that prompts a discussion. Somebody comes by and says something like “they trade Bay and Nady and say that they need a right handed bat”, or “why bother trying because we won’t get the guy anyway”.

This is a blog, not the gripe box at work, what do you expect the other posters here to say in response to those kind of comments?

We would like for you and everyone else to provide relevant comments that encourage others to respond. You are most welcome here, and I would like to either agree (or disagree) with your particular viewpoints, but I really don’t know what it is you want to debate/discuss.

Your first post on this thread implied your dissatisfaction about last year’s trades; that is a horse that we beat around here for so long that very few have any more to say. We love to debate the issues, if you treat this place more like a blog and less like a gripe box you will find plenty of posters that support your viewpoint as well as those that disagree.

Yes, sign him if you can.  And if he comes here for 3 or 4 games a week, where do you folks think he should play, and what position in the batting order should he hit?  And on those days he can play, who will have to sit down to make room?  

@Madturk, if they can sign Rocco, I hope its for one and an option, I just feel good about the fellow.

Josh Hamilton was a similar talent with an entirely different problem.  Reds picked him up Rule 5, ok, a lesser gamble, but don't you wish we would have done that?  (we may not have had a chance though)

In this day and age, he's worth a couple of million or so, IMO.

Its been an interesting day in the asylum, lets hope it keeps that way.

At the end of the day, I see no reason to spend $3-$6M on Baldelli given that they could just bring McCutchen up and rotate him and Pearce in.  They may not be ready to hit major league pitching yet, but the answer may not be a steady multi-year diet of AAA pitching.  Given that this team is most assuredly rebuilding, the only veterans they should be bringing in ought to be leaders and instructors like Dougie Baseball or other high character players with winning pedigrees that can provide some guidance to the young guys and provide some stability.  I'm not suggesting players like Burnitz who are here for one last paycheck; I'm talking about the Greg Maddux's of the world who might take an interest in a young team.  

We are not going to win this season.  To spend millions on a guy made of glass that would not help the team win many more games is just wasteful.  If they get him for a couple million, its a bit of a different story.

@radio wave wrote re: Pirates still on Baldelli's trail

on Jan 7, 2009 4:09 PM

Yes, sign him if you can.  And if he comes here for 3 or 4 games a week, where do you folks think he should play, and what position in the batting order should he hit?  And on those days he can play, who will have to sit down to make room?  

+++++++++++

Morgan

@Bizrow wrote re: Pirates still on Baldelli's trail

on Jan 7, 2009 4:12 PM

@Madturk, if they can sign Rocco, I hope its for one and an option, I just feel good about the fellow.

How do you feel about the lottery numbers today? :-)

My view is at least he is a 5 tool player.  That is 4 tools better then Dunn.  Plus we can use the outfield help this year without holding really anyone back but Morgan. That is if he hits like the last two months and not the first time he was up.

So this is one that I would try to sign even for one or 2 yrs.

Then hopefully we have JT, McCutch, and some others on their way.

@Wieters - "We are not going to win this season."

With all due respecdt, I think 16 years of losing had jaded your thinking! We're still undefeated in 2009, and if the pitching comes around, we manufacture 3-5 runs a game, average, winning is doable.

I believe we have enough talent to do that.

I do agree with you on going easy on bringing high-priced free agents in at this point ... but I like the idea of Baldelli, and trust that if he comes, Frank & Neil will make it happen for the right amount of money.

RW -- OK, I'll take a shot at it . . . Moss would probably sit if Nyjer establishes himself as a leadoff hitter.  Even if he's healthy resting that knee won't hurt.  Nate plays as much as he can.  

Of course, we'd like to see what McCutcheon can do, too -- and from DK's observations earlier, the Bucs are not high on Nyjer with all the other outfielders coming on.  So, what I'd do may not be what they'd do.

But wouldn't it be nice to have too much talent.

@JHadar wrote re: Pirates still on Baldelli's trail

on Jan 7, 2009 4:34 PM

Of course, we'd like to see what McCutcheon can do, too -- and from DK's observations earlier, the Bucs are not high on Nyjer with all the other outfielders coming on.  So, what I'd do may not be what they'd do.

But wouldn't it be nice to have too much talent.

____________

McCutcheon will be a mid year callup if he shows improvement.  Unless he tears the cover off the ball in spring and others faulter.  I believe that is the plan. Morgan still has a lot to prove, Moss needs to show improvement as well.

"But wouldn't it be nice to have too much talent"

It would be a dream come true would it not?

Thanks, Bay!  I was getting a little over-loaded on all the negativity lately.  

If healthy, I'm not sure how much Moss will be sitting though, given he was part of the Bay trade.  

Hi, brand new poster here.  Just wanted to say thanks to all who post here every day.  Living in NC, DK and the rest of you help fill my daily need for info on the Pirates.  I'll post more later when I get time, but, know this, you have just added a diehard Pitt fan to your forum!!  I sleep, eat, and drink anything Pittsburgh related.  I only use Heinz ketchup and if a restaurant that we go to has another brand, I simply refuse it.  Ok, so, I may be a little crazy too, but, judging from some of the posts that I have read here, I will fit right in, ha ha.  Thanks again to all of you and look forward to some insightful conversations down the road.

If we could guarentee Moss will be healthy, NAte will stay healthy, Nyj of the end of the season is the real Nyj, Cutch will be ready to help in May then don't sign Rocco. Otherwise he is an improvement in our roster. Wouldn't it be nice to have a 4th outfielder (whicheverone it may be) who is capable of starting if needed?

@pittfan1079

If you have been reading and as crazy as you seem then you know the drill to get your straight jacket and meds from ther front desk nurse.

welcome aboard!

pittfan...what part of NC?  I live near Charlotte now and went to Pitt once upon a time...

Baywatch...I'm impressed with your optimism, but I just don't think our lineup has to pop it needs.  We have a lot of slap hitters and not a lot of people that drive the ball.  I love what McLouth did last year, but let's see if he can repeat it.  I guess 16 years has beaten me down, but I really fail to see how bringing a middle of the road FA in will help.  From my perspective you either bring someone in that will fill seats or save your money for when you can make a hard push.  Getting another light hitting player with a terrible...not bad, terrible...injury history seems like folly.  Maybe I'll be proven wrong, or maybe Baldelli will stay in the AL where he can safely DH and the Bucs will have been proven to be leverage and nothing more in this negotiation.

You are so right Bay. Right now we are tied for first.

@papacoach wrote re: Pirates still on Baldelli's trail

on Jan 7, 2009 4:42 PM

If we could guarentee Moss will be healthy, NAte will stay healthy, Nyj of the end of the season is the real Nyj, Cutch will be ready to help in May then don't sign Rocco. Otherwise he is an improvement in our roster. Wouldn't it be nice to have a 4th outfielder (whicheverone it may be) who is capable of starting if needed?

______

Agree and disagree, the IF is the reason why.

Nothing is for sure and having more in a greedy game is better then just enough.  Nothing is for certain here with Nate, Moss, Nyj, or Cutch.  If any one of them fail we need a replacement.

Bay and Papa...Right now we are also tied for last.

Food for thought.

@pittfan1079...Welcome!  The more the merrier!

@Wieters...There are a few of us here who harbor such optimism.  You left Doumit off your list...he's got some pop and I'm confident that he and Nate can have similar performances this season.  I'm not saying we couldn't use a little more though, I'm just leery of the health issue.  

PittFan1079 & Wieters - Hosh-a-Modey, Welcome to the Asylum, and

PittFan - " I only use Heinz ketchup and if a restaurant that we go to has another brand, I simply refuse it.  Ok, so, I may be a little crazy too .."

Yeah. I'd say. OK, boys, the straight jacket ... Nurse Cratchett, the meds ... aw, skip it, better uses the hypodermic on this guy ... Sorry, PittFan (as the good nurse prepares to inject, like a scene from A Beautiful Mind) ...You can check in but you can't check out ... Not when you have that kind of fixation with Heinz Ketchup!

Both of Yinz - I hails from NC myself, born and raised in North Mecklenburg County (last cut on that great North Meck High team of 1971 ... a few years later we faced future Tar Heel BBall guard Phil Ford and Rocky Mount for the state championship).

We be pulling for those Davidson Wildcats tonight vs. Duke. Davidson was where I lived when I finished high school. So, anyway ... welcome Carolina boys.

pittfan1079 welcome to the asylum....

All who come here and stay for more than ten minutes are trapped; it’s like the Hotel California, you can check out but you can never leave. Yes we are all at least a little crazy here, some more than others, but that’s what it takes to be a Pirate fan these days.

Again….welcome!

@ Wieters

I live in Wilson, it's about 20 miles East of Raleigh..  

@ Pittfan

First welcome home

Second Congrats on Pitt BB, go Panthers

Third This place is addictive

Fourth Nurse Cratchett isn't as mean as she may seem

Fifth There is another kind of ketchu than Heinz????

All, thanks for a truly enjoyable day in the nuthouse

@ Wieters

Welcome to the asylum

I see RB as a low risk player provided that his contract is structured appropriately. It won't break my heart if we don't get him, but if they finally have his treatment right, then he has upside. If he can't go full time, he can still be a valuable addition as a part timer if he is paid like a part timer.

Later, Bizzy! I'm off to the pizza wars myself ... with a few attendants as chapperones, of course!

If I wrote a letter to DirecTV explaining to them that I was canceling my Extra Innings package because of my issues with the Pirates front office and recent history of historic futility, do you think Dejan would publish it like he did that letter yesterday?  If I did write such a letter, do you think DirecTV would write back touting the virtues of the Rays, Twins, and A's in hopes of luring me back?

As sick as this is, I love the Pirates so much I have to obsessively follow the news and argue about them with strangers, but cannot stomach to actually watch most of the games.  Also, I am personally offended when I can't get Heinz ketchup and my wife has us stop a Primanti's every time we come back home.  (We've only been here 2 years).

Now fellows, won't having Wieters on board here somehow diminish the horrors of Littlefield passing on Wieters ... No, didn't think it would! I guess not any more than if the greatest guy in the world started posting on here under the guise of "SidBream!"

Heinz -- isn't the other ketchup called catsup?

Thanks to all the welcoming posts directed towards me.  Glad to know that I qualify for the asylum and yes, I agree, you do have to be a little crazy to be a Pirates fan these days.  I have been a fan since 1979, I was 8 at the time and just fell in love with the Stargell's Stars and the rest is history as they say.  I grew up listening to the Pirates EVERY night on an old AM radio.  Being in NC, I had to wait until almost dark, sit in the kitchen with the radio next to the window and listen to Lanny fading in and out between a spanish station, ha ha.  Ahhhhh, the good 'ol days.  My wife and I finally made it up to the 'Burgh in 2003 for the first time and have been back every Summer since and will continue to go back regardless of how bad the Buccos are.  Sixteen years of losing has taken its toll on me also, but, they are still my team and to me, Pittsburgh is the greatest city in the World.  Hope you all have a great night and look forward to meeting more of you later.

@Bay--

Speaking of Weiters:

Moskos was drafted after being a closer in college, why not use him in this capacity now, it seems that everyone needs a closer, but no one wants to groom one, we drafted one, I don't get it!

madturk_you and I are on the same page. My point was that because we cannot guarantee perfect health for the other OF Rocco would be a huge addition. Sorry for being so confusing.

leadoff - if I am not mistaken (and unfortunatly I often am) the plan with Moskos was to start him in low A to bild up his arm then move him to the pen where he is better suited.

pittfan

And welcome from me.  

I'm with Bay--said it before, say it again--pitching--if the pitchers come around (keep in mind there are 4 have 10 or more in a season) the team will be better than expected.  Let Kerrigan work with them and see what happens.  If the pitching is not better than last season then there will be a disaster.  Add Pujols to lineup and if the pitching is still bad the team will flounder.  In the modern history of baseball you will not find a team that won the World Series without good pitching but you will teams that won with poor hitting.

Huntingdon, Coonley, and Nutting just need to just cough up the cash and sign Baldelli and make him the left fielder.

Reading about the Padres cutting payroll 50% and other teams cutting payroll, the fact that we are even talking about raising payroll is a good sign. (I realize that we had nowhere to go but up but it still is a good sign)

@papacoach wrote re: Pirates still on Baldelli's trail

on Jan 7, 2009 7:44 PM

Reading about the Padres cutting payroll 50% and other teams cutting payroll, the fact that we are even talking about raising payroll is a good sign. (I realize that we had nowhere to go but up but it still is a good sign)

++++++++++

If it's like a stop, yield, slippy road or whatever please get it and post here for the members that need a little guidance in why we have hope.

An evening link as a pitcher who showed some promise retires at age 30

mlb.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

The blog is also increasing--three threads running today with 267 combined posts.  It is hard to keep up with who is posting where on what.

madturk - I was reading the Sporting News hard copy (Yes I admit it I still like the feel of paper in my hands) so I don't have the link to post. A quick summation, which I hope is legal, in their article dealing with the economic effect of the recession on sports they mention the padres and several other teams cutting payroll. Unfortunatly I have already sent the magazine to the recycling center so I cannot quote exactly. I combine that with NH and FC telling us the money is there to be spent on the right FA and voila, I have hope

papa

It is legal as long as you give the source and do not post large parts of the story.  Your summation is fine.  I read the same article.  

@papacoach wrote re: Pirates still on Baldelli's trail

on Jan 7, 2009 7:44 PM

Reading about the Padres cutting payroll 50% and other teams cutting payroll, the fact that we are even talking about raising payroll is a good sign. (I realize that we had nowhere to go but up but it still is a good sign)

+++++++++

Thanks and sorry it was a poor attempt at some humor.  Your last line was "(I realize that we had nowhere to go but up but it still is a good sign)"  I was keying on the word "sign"

Thanks for the info though, I will check it out.

Madturk - don't worry my poor brain took a while but I did recognize and appreciate your humor. I was mostly trying to source my info rather than leaving it out their as unsubstantiated. We're sill friends.

LOL...I got it, Mad.  Clever.

@JAL...Yeah, it's hard to keep everything straight.

DMac

Also difficult to keep up who the Pirates have signed and who they are interested in--3 hear, 6 there, talk, offers.  In some ways the offseason is more difficult to follow than the season.  Still, sure is fun trying to follow everything.

The worst, for me, today was trying to weed through all the financial talk...I am so clueless there, and really could care less.  I like to talk about the players and the game, to me money is the necessary side of the game, not the fun side.  ;-)