Pirates Q&A: Chasing Rocco

@DK - "These Pirates do not appear to be a contender, except in the rosiest -- and perhaps most unreasonable -- outlooks."

Go ahead, DK, make my day ... You can call me Rosie, or you can call me unreasonable (He said in his best Dirty Harry voice, so no one gets any ideas about his willingness to be called Rosie!)

I know there's more to a team than starting pitching and hitting, but if our pitchers come around and we can manufacture 3-5 runs a game I see no reason why we can't contend in 2009.

And I think we have the talent to do that.

I am a constant reader but not a frequent contributor.By nature I am generally a very optimistic person and look at the glass as being half full most of the time. But, I tend to be more realistic when looking at our Pirates.

1.   How many of  our      potential starting 8 would be able to start on any other team in our division?

2.  If you were a free agent why would I consider the Pirates knowing their history of being a cheap organization who do not seem to want to spend the money to win during my career.

3. Knowing that we can not compete with AAAA players instead of Major League caliber players, why should I come to the Pirates?( Unless I am not good enough to start for anyone else and could start for them)

 This is a cycle that has become almost irreversible. When  players become eligible for free agency they have no desire to stay with the Pirates based on how they were treated when they were captives. That could be why no long term contracts will be signed by current people as they probably can't wait to be able to leave when their time comes.

  I get frustrated reading where everyone gets excited when the Pirates are even mentioned when players names come available, but let's be realistic.

Bay- Agreed.  

However, The Cubs signed Milton Bradley yesterday.  There is "talk" that the Cubs want to trade Soriano.  Assuming the Cubs are salary dumping, wouldn't a trade for Soriano make sense. It would be inverse Rameriz.   I strongly doubt the Cubs would trade him inter-divison, but I think Soriano, while an asylum pipe dream, would spur ticket sales well beyond last years pace.  I

This is an odd situation.  Obviously, some season tickets are not being renewed.  The PBC needs to figure this out:

a) recoil, and not supplement your entering peak year stars and watch 8000 show up in August

b) be agressive and bring up attendance and provide an additional source of revenue with new untapped sponsors since with winning would coincide with increased ratings.  Look what happened with the Nationals and their ratings once Soriano left there.  

That kerplunk you heard was the Nationals TV ratings into the Potomac.

Soriano's contract may be one of the worst in MLB.   He'll still be productive 4 years from now.  A few fluky injuries and he's a liablity?  I think not!  

Look, for the pirates to sign ANYONE of significance in free agency, or even get in a trade, is just a pipe dream.  there is no way that they will ever have anybody, or i should say sign, anybody worth a darn.  

The best question asked was, who on this current 8 man roster would be starters anywhere else? Doumit? nate? Jack?....both larouches were up and down until they came to pixburgh, adam was doing more of the platooning role at first, UNTIL THE SECOND HALF.  if i had to pick, it would be jack and freddy and jack because of the experience he's received in Pix.  freddy to me, is still THE BEST hitter on the team.  

"There was not nearly as much feedback about Snell's remarks as those of Wilson, no doubt because they were not nearly as strong. What did arrive was mostly -- though not entirely -- supportive of what Snell said."

I guess that I for one should speak out in a much louder voice then. Ian Snell was a major part of the problem last year. He has absolutely no right to point fingers at anyone (including management) other than the person that is looking back in the mirror. One would think that a young pitcher with a fresh contract would have come into the season ready to pick up where he left off before the contract….we all saw how that turned out.

Snell needs to put in extra work in with his new pitching coach and get his carrier back on track, but instead he lobs criticisms at the management and decides to take part in a fantasy league playing for the DR instead of showing his commitment to his fans, coaches, and teammates and do everything that he can to get his carrier back on track.

It was a mistake for him to speak out as he did; however, now that he has got that off of his chest……shut up, just shut up. I hope that you put up the kind of numbers that justify people to respect your opinion toward your management team, but until you take care of your own issues…….just shut up.

I don't know if we can contend, but I think there is great room for improvement---especially with the pitching.

I may be overly optimistic, but I think if Brandon Moss and Andy LaRoche are healthy and settled in with the new team,  there is a very good chance that their combined production could match the 'expected'  production (offense & defense)  we got from  Jason Bay and Jose Bautista.

Stan - why stop at Soriano? Andruw Jones re-did his deal to make himself more marketable for trades. He's eager to prove 2008 was a fluke, he's a right handed bat and he can still cover ground in the outfield. You have a shorter commitment and the cost should be low because LA wants him out and may assume some of the deferred money. Not sure if he has a no-trade clause to waive. Nate moves to LF, Morgan becomes the 4th OF (his best role) with Moss/Pearce in RF.

Bay- right on! What the Bucs need is not more free agents (though a few would be nice, ie DD and maybe a bopper), but what they need is for the people they have to perform to their potential. And while I don't know that that alone makes us competitors, it does make .500 seem possible, and even probable.

Cappy- don't underestimate the value of a FEW  of the starting nine. Anyone who thinks Nate McLouth wouldn't be wanted by at least 15 teams is insane. He had a breakout year offensively, gold glove, you know... Doumit for sure, even if at 1st base, which I believe is where he should be. I believe Moss will develop into a solid player. Wilson and Sanchez maybe, depending on a team's needs. And any team would love to have any of our starters, because they probably all have pitching coaches that could help them with consistency...

Do not even start about Soriano. I wouldn't want him on this team even in the worst of Bucco circumstances. His attitude and arrogance and laziness are insulting to baseball players everywhere.

<< To your initial point, we will not know if the Pirates will try to keep proven star-level talent in Pittsburgh until it actually happens. There have been promises, but such things are best determined by the proof. To date, new management's only commitment in this direction was the long-term contract signed by Freddy Sanchez. >>

I guess the quibble with the Doumit contract would be "proven", and they at least made attempts at McLouth & Maholm.  I don't think you can write it off that they don't want to keep their talent either.  (And no, DK you didn't imply that -- but the statement is ripe for those who would infer it)

Joggin- Since Boris and FC are friends, why not?  Its a short term solution.  I just think the guy is a Dale Long session away from regaining his stroke.   Jones gets a chance to at redemption via the organzation that caused our most recent pain.   He's the Adam Dunn I've been talking about, if he can regain his stroke, because I think he can.  Jones was never one of those guys you would assume "performance enchancing", he just has exceptional bat speed, like Eric Davis did.  

Is it me or was Tampa Bay making the World Series one of the worst things long term for "small market" teams.   Teams will try and emulate Tampa, but who is baseball is going to give up a potential NO. 2 starter at the trade deadline. The RAYS STOLE Kasmir from the Mets.

Thanks, DK, appreciate the clarification.  

@Jogging George:

Andruw Jones has hit .209 with 4SB in his last 291 games.  I forget the power numbers, but they are not good.  He hit .158 last year.  The Dodgers are likely to just eat the money and cut him.  That's $22M of eatin', and $36.5M overall.

He might be the worst free agent signing of all time.  I can't imagine even the Pirates giving him a major league contract.

I would be interest to see if McClouth signs once Markasis and the Oriolles agree on a long-term extension.  

Buying out arbitration years on good players is a win-win.  No bitterness between player and club and club gets costs certainty while player gets paid before going in front of arbitrator who knows little about baseball.

The Rays may have stolen Kasmir from the Mets, but they also have done a fair job of building the team with players from their system.  They also have drafted some good players, something the Pirates cannot claim.  Unless the aim is to develop the skill set of the team's orthopaedic surgeon.

A few of the Rays star players were available in the draft but the Pirates passed. (  Bullington instead of B.J. Upton is an example)

NC Dave! Welcome to the asylum. From whence dost thou broadcast down there where the sky is Carolina Blue? I'm an old Carolina boy myself, many times removed now, to Texas.

Uh ... I don't think developing the skill set of the Pirate's orthopaedic surgeon is going to get it!

UK -

>>I guess that I for one should speak out in a much louder voice then. Ian Snell was a major part of the problem last year.<<

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Over the weekend, someone criticized jersey joe for ranting agains Snell for what he said. I defened joe. What Snell had to say wasn't the least bit unreasonable so far as management needing to bring in better players. What was unreasonable was Snell being the one saying it, after the year he put in for 2008. One needs to straighten up/tidy up their own house before saying someone else is a poor housekeeper. If Maholm had made the statements, I would have been okay with it.

On the subject of the Pirates being a "contender" in 2009, well, I suppose that depends on one's definition of "contender." To me, it means being in the chase for a playoff position, either division title or wild card. I have hope - plenty of hope - that the Pirates can have a better record in 2009 than last year. But there is not enough funny stuff to smoke in the world to make me think they can "contend" in 2009. Too many moons and stars would have to align. Sure, anything's possible, as the Rays proved. But can any of us really believe the Bucs have even a 50:50 chance of making the playoffs in 2009? Better, improvement, yes. Contending, highly doubtful unless the entire divsion collapses.

WSB -

>>I would be interest to see if McClouth signs...<<

I can't really see McClouth signing a long contract right now unless the Pirates up the ante a lot. Nate won a gold glove and had a breakout year going into arbitration. It's entirely possible this may be his best chance at a huge raise in a single year for the next few turns. Once he gets his arbitration award for 2009, signing an extension might be more to his liking.

First - apology for the non-baseball topic

G-Man I understand you are in Richmond.  If you would like to get together to watch some games with another Pirate fan.  Let me know.  My only company at present is my wife (until she gets annoyed and asks why I can watch 162 games, but not any of the shows that she is interested in) and son (until he goes to bed - 6 years old)

I think the division could collapse.  The pitching staffs for the Brewers and Cards are in a shambles.  The Astros don't seem to scare me.  And the Reds are the Reds.  (they may make the greatest improvement in the standings)

Baywatch-

Thank you for the welcome.  I currently hail from Durham and have spent many an evening (and the occasional "sick day") at the Durham Bulls Athletic Park.  Kinda neat to see players like Evan Longoria, BJ Upton, and Carl Crawford before they were called up.

Menckrick -

About watching some Pirate games this year: Hmm. You are asking me to unmask my secret identity! :-)

Let's see how the Pirates perform coming out of ST. I got so disgusted with them last year, I did not watch them much on WGN or the DC cable station as I could not bear to watch the pitchers self-destruct in the first two innings. I still have nightmares about watching that game with Sid Bream n'at. :-)

NCDave,

Hey Ya'll!

I went to Duke and spent a few nights at the Durham Athletic Park myself.  Of course, we ALL know that Dick Groat, the 1960 National league MVP, went to Duke as well.  

When I was there, his was the only jersey retired and it hung in a case in the entranceway in Card Gym!

Pitt #1 —— Duke #2 in college basketball right now.  Go Devils!!!

Groat2Maz - How 'bout my Davidson Wildcats? Be playing yinz tomorrow night. Honestly, I'm kind of glad I'll be at work just in case it's a blowout ... don't know if I could stand watching my Cats beat the Dookies that bad! Just kiddin', it's the other way around.

I've got to believe that the all-knowing Coach K will find a way to stop Curry enough. BUT, I was telling my son, who goes to Greensboro College, the rest of his teammates are stepping up and playing better in their supporting roles.

Still, all-in-all, would be a TREMENDOUS upset for them to waltz into Cameron and pull off the upset.

(Sometimes I wonder if Duke84 is your son!)

G-Man, jersey joe: Re: Snell:  G-Man, I'll own up to the weekend request to jj.  It probably should not have been personally directed to him, since others were expressing similar views, and more than once,  Mainly, though, jersey joe happened to rebut pretty much every time someone expressed an opposing opinion.  So Joe, here's an apology -- I guess I took a shot at the messenger. *s*

And, for what it's worth, I have no qualms with the "facts of the case," so to speak.

The better you play, the more right you have to speak your mind.  Ian's numbers last year were atrocious.  If you're going to criticize others, you need first to perform.  Ian didn't.

Also, the longer you play, the more "right" you have to speak your mind.  Ian's been around, as a rotation guy, for three years, not thirteen.

The main thing that made me less upset at Snell was the difference in tone between the article on him and the article on Jack.  Neither guy really is going to smell like flowers, but the ledes said it all, to me.  "Pirates' Snell eyes personal, team upgrade," versus, "Wilson: Pirates need 'more players' to compete."

Anyway, yes, everyone, I respect your opinions.  Srsly.  And I like to hear them, roll them around in my head, and digest them.  I won't always agree with them, but life's more interesting that way...

@G-Man wrote re: Pirates Q&A: Chasing Rocco

on Jan 6, 2009 4:03 PM

On the subject of the Pirates being a "contender" in 2009, well, I suppose that depends on one's definition of "contender." To me, it means being in the chase for a playoff position, either division title or wild card. I have hope - plenty of hope - that the Pirates can have a better record in 2009 than last year. But there is not enough funny stuff to smoke in the world to make me think they can "contend" in 2009. Too many moons and stars would have to align. Sure, anything's possible, as the Rays proved. But can any of us really believe the Bucs have even a 50:50 chance of making the playoffs in 2009? Better, improvement, yes. Contending, highly doubtful unless the entire divsion collapses.

__________

The reason we believe and have hope is all about the meds the nurse forces us to take.  Not the illegal stuff...  If that was the case we would be in the WS this year.

Be prepared for the impending Global Pitchfork Shortage!

www.johnclearygallery.com/.../pitchfork.jpg

SirL -

I don't think you need to apologize. And, for the record, I didn't even remember it was you that countered jj. Hey, we all have opinions and they are not always in line with everyone else. I have a lot of regard for you and what you think and what you write here. For example, you make a good point about the comparison of what Jack said to Ian's comments. Frankly, I heard the sounds of whining coming from Jack. I wrote it off because I am sure he was frustrated that he had been put through the wringer of the almost-trade, only to be jerked back into the fold. If I were Jack, I'd probably wonder what NH was demanding in return and whether it was outlandish. So, I cut him some slack. Ian is young and not as polished as a veteran so I guess I could cut him some slack, too. Main thing with him is how well prepared he comes to work this spring. If he is less of a head case and seems more focused, no one will remember the comments.

mad -

Regarding the legal vs. questionable meds: You made me literally Laugh Out Loud. Thanks. I needed that.

Your now going to know the truth about my koolaid drinking habits.

Every year since 1960 going into spring T., I expect us to win the division.  In some way, i fugure there is a way to stay close and close strong and win it.  Last year was the only year i did not not expect to win every game before the start of every game.

Since I have spent a number of years coaching I see great value in stubstance coaching.

I think the addition of two coaches who have been identified with the developement of award winner players gives me hope for a serious change of perforfmance in a  number of ways.

The new infield coach will by the end of spring T. have Andy's footwork corrected and comfortable for him and he will hit .280.

I agree with the earlier and I am sorry the name just sliped my mind said, Freddy is still the best hitter on this team.  He started the last two years ijured and should not have been brought north, either year.  If he is healthy there is no reason not to expect him to hit .320.

Nate and Ryan will continue to progressively develope.

We will know soon enough if Ian is ready, I want to see a Bob Gibson in side high under the chin pitch to the first batter he faces, then well talk about him.  That said, i think he learns how to pitch he can win 18 games with his gifted talent.  I think Joe was hired for this purpose.

I think the improvement we see in the rest of the staff will be icing on the cake from Joe.

I think we may have anoth elroy in magic Karstens ride, he just seems to have that same feeling.

we have some pitchers with very good arms.

We need a bat at first, after that I see no reason these guys can not all put together their individual setbacks of last year along with progress from those who did not have a setback.

I see nothing less than better.

lets go Bucs

JJ--I hope you are right; a lot of interesting ideas.  You see Karstens as an Elroy Face?  Do you think he will be a reliever or are you talking attitude?

My first reaction to Snell as Bob Gibson was "Huh?"  But he's so wacky that maybe Kerrigan can convince him he should be an intimidater.  At least for one game he thought he was CC.  Interesting.

Anyone watch the Hot Stove on MLBN tonight?  At the end of the show Al Leiter (Bucs), Harold Reynolds (Pads), and Joe Magrane (Reds), all took turns being GM's for the respective clubs listed by their names as it relates to pitching.  They all got a chance to take 2 free agent pitchers and were somewhat asked to make justifications for their picks.  Al chose Oliver Perez and Braden Looper for us.  

I love this new network despite the fact it does still have a New York flavor. They are including all 30 teams in their discussions.  The NL Central perview will be on tomorrow at 7pm.  

Trenni Kusnierek is doing an excellent job!!!  Maybe she still reads coverage of the Bucs since she worked here for so long...hope so!

In another note, tune in Sunday at 8pm same channel for a replay on a Bucs/Cubs game from April 1991.

Go Bucs!

@bucsfancents80

I watched when they had Ken Burns on.  Me thinks he needs to join the asylum to get some views of what people think of the game today verus the game of yesteryear.