Pirates among Turnbow finalists

My goodness--the Pirates are actually in the top 3 for someone.  The times they are a changing

Have any ants marched here or are things just moving slow?

I have marched here.  On the other thread I also got your post which you said hadn't appeared for you.  I have no idea what happened before that.

As to whether signing Turnbow is a good thing or not, it will depend on what kind of deal it is, I think.  Major or minor league?  1 year?  I'd rather they didn't lock in on something big that assumes he's fine now.

Okay...Ants have marched.  

I think those other posts got deleted.  

I cannot believe that the Pirates or anyone else is interested in this guy.  Living in Wisconsin, I have seen him pitch the last two years, which is apparently more than any Pirate scout has.  His usual outing goes like this:  walk, walk, strikeout, walk, strikeout, grand slam.  He then leaves the mound to a chorus of boos.  They had the Brewer beat writer on a local talk show a couple weeks ago and they mentioned to him the Bucs were interested in Turnbow.  he just snickered as if to say, "it figures."

Come to think of it, I can see why the Pirates are interested.  They need a high-priced version of Denny Bautista to make it look like they're actually spending money.

Capn

It was strange--I made a post, hit add, and a whole section of posts disappeared.

Just got back in and Marched right on over JAL.

We need something that says no more posts, move to new thread. You reply to a post and no one is there, because some moved and others are still waitng for replys, but they have moved and you don't know it. maby we could come up with something from DK when he posts a new thread, something that says no more posts on this thread please or you can't post at all on the old thread, have to move, just something to get everyone on the same page!

Am I rambling here?

@JAL--<Posts disappeared>

Sometimes when I post the BL's they will appear and then i hit refresh it is not there...No clue what happens.

Someone besides the Pirates must seen potential in Turnbow...there must be something there.  I'll reserve judgement until I see him pitch.  ;-)

@leadoff--I had a conversation with DK regarding the threads (new/old). He would prefer that we migrate on our own versus doing the "formal" Ant's Marching=== etc. post. So as to continue to generate conversations to a relevant topic. If someone notices a new thread and posts "new thread ants marching" that is just to let every know a new thread has opened.

Have to get Thursday Next on the case--she chases down missing words and such :)

BK

Good marching my friend--got here in good time :)

@MadCityMike--Welcome to the asylum. The Tailor and Nurse Cratchett will be around shortly to fit you for your straitjacket and your meds. Glad to have you aboard. Happy Holidays.

How rude of me...my brain is still catching up, sorry...Welcome, MadCityMike!

DMac,

Whisper your argument-starting words to me (just type lightly).

I promise not to tell anyone else.

Whether or not the ants march sometimes depends on the topic of the new thread.  Some threads are narrow and seem to generate conversation on only one topic -- usually a player or a move -- while others are wide open and moving to the other thread kills conversation.  

We've seen as many as five or six threads active at one time on some days, and on others everybody moves as soon as a new topic comes up the ongoing conversations just jump to the new one and everything homogenizes.  

I appreciate the signs, but the last thing life needs is more rules to follow.  You may have noticed that sometimes we talk about baseball in the other stuff threads, and very rarely constrain ourselves to the topic at the top of the page in the baseball threads -- or even keep it just to baseball, and that's ok.

Billy--

Thank you

@Groat...You may want to check your email.  

What do we have to lose?

Hard to believe that there were five suitors for this guy. If a minor league deal with an invitation to spring training and then reasonable incentives if he's added to the major league roster and performs, a la Jaret Wright, then I agree that there is no harm. With that many suitors out of the gate, though, who knows where the market is. Hmmmm...

Words are such fun--wonder how junk e-mail  and junk postings got named after a cheap food--poor old Spam--except that Advertising Age named Spam one the 10 things that would withstand an economic downturn.

Turnbow doesn't excite me that much b/c bullpen arms are so iffy year-to-year, especially guys like him with a crazy track record.  It cant be for significant money, if it is even a Major League contract.

Baldelli is far more intriguing for me, if they are still working on that.  

Turnbow--

Have a little trouble with the Pirates getting players that are not any better than what we have. Except for the franchise players, parity appears to be the norm.

It all depends on price.  Turnbow had a great 2005--1.74 over 67 innings--at his age some people will take a chance with the hope he will return to that form.  If the price is right probably a chance worth taking.

Turnbow is better the Byung Kim, last year's star free agent.  However, I like Bootcheck's potential over Turnbow.   Kerrigan can only have so many projects.

I would hope that Turnbow's velocity is 100% of what it was.  Anyone remember Rob Dibble's ignomous end?

Velocity shmelocity. The last thing we need is another guy who walks one out of every 4-5 guys he faces.

WSB

You mean the ERAs  over 6, 7, and 8?

The Pirates talk a lot about blocking players, how many Turnbow's and Bootchecks and Bautista's do we need, if a couple of these starters can' make it, relief roles could be better possiblities than siging these other guys.

I have to quit following the Pirates' hot stove because it just gets too depressing. I'd love to see something about, "They're one of three teams interested in a solid performer." instead of "they're one of three teams interested in a guy who used to be a solid performer a few years ago but hasn't been lately but maybe he'll rediscover his form or probably not."

Hey, by the way, what's worse: 0-16 or 16 consecutive losing seasons?

Re Turnbow

You can never have to many arms in ST...I agree with JAL if the price is right give the kid a chance to prove himself. If not cut your losses and move forward.

@leadoff--<Blocking players>

At this point with what we had last year it is about finding the 4/5 best starters and 5/6 best relievers. We pretty much agreed/stated that there are only 2 pitchers "relatively" safe Maholm, Capps...

From what I remember he was kinda "hefty" and sloppy when with the brewers anyone know if hes slimmed down at all or still has that bartolo colon figure

The Pirates interest in these reclamation projects reminds me of my father.

He did the grocery shopping in my family and he would always bring home damaged fruit and vegetables from the bargain bin.

Mom would always complain about it but Dad's response would be the same each week.  He'd reason : " Just cut off the bruised or rotten parts and the rest will be fine, just like the full priced stuff"

Mom would inevitably comply, spin her magic, and when we sat down to eat, you would never know the difference,  because except for a few spots, the food was fine.  Occasionally, the bruises were too deep and the food had to be ditched with little lost for the effort.

I'm sure you all see where I'm going with this.  Let's hope we can take care of the bruises on these guys and have players who are ready to contribute with little lost if they can't.  

A little bruise can save big bucks, but a big bruise can be saved no longer.

Juniata -

>>what's worse: 0-16 or 16 consecutive losing seasons?<<

The 16 consecutive losing seasons is defintely worse. Last year's Miami Dolphins went 1-15 and this year are 11-5 and won their division. Unfortunately for Detroit fans, the Lions are bad nearly every year. So maybe it's a wash as to which is worse.

Cave -

Interesting story. Can we get your Mom to manage the Bucs this year?  :-)

GMan

I think Joe Kerrigan plays her in the movie.

The Pirates' problem is that once you cut off all the rotten parts you are down to just the core.  While that core might look pretty darn appealing, it is not enough to make a full meal.

JAL -- internet spam got named after Hormel Spam by way of a Monty Python sketch:

en.wikipedia.org/.../Spam_(Monty_Python)

www.youtube.com/watch

BP has, in today's edition ( in addition to having the Bucs top 11 prospects), an interview with Kyle Stark. On BP Radio, you can hear more details on subjects touched in the BucBlog

the link: www.baseballprospectus.com/radio

bjm -- we're trying to build on the core, not cut down to it.  Most of that is going to come through the minors, not via trades and FA's -- they are merely patching together what they can for next year, but not (obvously) breaking the bank to do it.  

There's no such thing as being overstocked with prospects at one position.  Remember when the Pirates seemed to be overloaded with catching prospects?  How'd that turn out?

If the Pirates are short on pitching prospects (clearly true), the answer isn't to exchange other prospects for them.  The answer is simply to get pitching prospects.

@Billy--At this point with what we had last year it is about finding the 4/5 best starters and 5/6 best relievers. We pretty much agreed/stated that there are only 2 pitchers "relatively" safe Maholm, Capps...

Yes I agree it is about finding the 4/5 best starters and as for the relief core, I am not even sure about Capps, but I think the Yankees knew something about Olendorf and were using him correctly. So if you have Capps, Olendorf, Burnett, Grabow, Yates, you do not have to find a whole lot more bullpen, don't forget we have Sues, and Meeks. I think everyone of the guys I just mentioned is a lock regardless of what Huntington is saying and so are Snell, Gorzo, Duke, no way they are going to give up on them unless they fail this year. Karstens could give someone a run for a starting job.

I know they want Olendorf for a starter, I just don't think he is a 7 inning pitcher. I would like to be wrong though.

One thought (or wish?) to share in watching yesterday's NFL games - it was really enjoyable to watch the Cowboys (ie America's Team, "...the best talent in the NFL...", Jerry Jones $$$, etc), get pummelled and knocked out of the playoffs.

My wish for the New Year: that it happens to their MLB counterparts, the Yankees.

Mad City Mike - "His usual outing goes like this:  walk, walk, strikeout, walk, strikeout, grand slam."

That was pretty funny, the way you set that up, MCM (sorry, we already have one guy we address as Mad!).

Welcome to the Asylum!

My gut feeling on us being the last of three suitors on Turnbow is this: If he's down to three suitors, and the Pirates are one of them, he's not being offered a major league contract, and it's going to come down to who's offering the most of the three with minor league contracts.

Also, fast reverse to last spring training. There were a ton of pitchers invited ... Hector Carrasco comes to mind. Definitely in his last days ... and he was one of the last one's cut. But, more importantly, he could have taken a minor league assignment and worked his way up - if there was anything left in the tank.

All this, and I'd still be surprised if the Pirates land him, though.

DK, is Turnbow still scheduling a mound session in January to show teams what he has?

Cave - Love your analogy about your Dad bringing home the bruised fruit and veggies.

G-Man - Nice, nice comeback on trying to get Cave's Mom to manage the club this year!

Juan-

Would it be great if they started a super major league division, they could put the Yankees and Boston in it, then they could play each other into infinety.

With you on the Cowgirls.

Okay I'm a little saracastic, don't get mad.

Juan- I think they are going to be good (as I posted earlier), but I still think they are about a 90 win team as constructed.   Granted Brian Cashman has a different idea, but if you look at who they signed for who they replaced, its not as big as the media would make you believe.   They have some cruical parts that are aging quickly.  

I'd love to have Matsui for one year as a Pirate if his knee is right.  Either Rocco for 3 years or Matsui in a Yankee salary dump.

@Leadoff - Me and Juan don't take too kindly to you calling our team Cowgirls :-) .... Just kidding, Buddy ... After yesterday's performance, I think you'd have to apologize to the Cowgirls for calling them that!

You can call them the Cow Pies if you want ... I'm a bigger Pirates fan than I'll ever be a Cowboys fan ... even if I do live in the Lone Star State! Once you got that Bucco Fever ... I tell you what.

You can lock me in my rubber room and through away the key ... I figure I'm not busting out of the asylum until we AT LEAST make the playoffs ... then, I may become well-adjusted again!

@Bay--I'm not busting out of the asylum until we AT LEAST make the playoffs.

PLAYOFFS, PLAYOFFS, PLAYOFFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know what to say!!! I'm speachless. will pills work?

@leadoff - "I don't know what to say!!! I'm speachless. will pills work?"

Nope. Sorry, leadoff. If pills worked, we would have made it through those high-blood-pressure situations that Grabow took us through last year!

I don't know why DK is so big on him, he liked to made a nervous wreck out of me!

I like Grabow too, Bay.  Yates too.  I think they got a lot of overworked last season.  

Happy Holidays to all.  New to posting on the blog but have been reading for some time.  

Pursuing Turnbow just doesn't make me feel to happy during the holidays.  Who knows if he will end up with the Pirates, but I hope that if he does, it is not a "majors only" contract...

Once again the PBC is a finalist for a mediocre player. I just cannot see Turnbow making much of an impact in the Pirates pen. I guess it is announcements like this one (Pirates among Turnbow finalists) that keep the Hot Stove burning......Where's Rocco???

Jeff

Welcome to the asylum,  post anytime

PI--

Rocco is also in the mix, however, we don't know how far he is in the mix.

Pi and Jeff

That's the system  Several teams, Pirates among them, must build through the draft because they can't afford the big FAs.  More than that--there was not a FA on the market that would turn the Pirates into a winner without a lot of their current players stepping way up.  

As for Turnbow, as I posted earlier--worth the risk for the right price. Not likely to do much but you never know.    Bet a lot of people wondered why the Steelers kept resigning  James Harrison a few years ago--even after the Ravens cut him.

@Baywatch wrote re: Pirates among Turnbow finalists

on Dec 29, 2008 6:17 PM

Mad City Mike - "His usual outing goes like this:  walk, walk, strikeout, walk, strikeout, grand slam."

That was pretty funny, the way you set that up, MCM (sorry, we already have one guy we address as Mad!).

+++++++++

Baywatch. if I had to pitch today I may fit that decriptiopn well.

:-)

JAL , I like your James Harrison analogy. As much as we wish it otherwise our PBC needs to find a few baseball equivilents to #92 until our young talent makes it to the burgh.

I'm with you PI, Where's Rocco??

Jeff--Welcome aboard the asylum

The tailor and nurse will be around shortly to fit you for your straitjacket and issuance of the proper meds.

@PI--Thank you for turning off the lights and locking the doors to prevent Inmate escapes this AM.

papa

Thanks.  There are examples of players in all sports who suddenly contributed a lot to a team beyond what people thought they could.  

@JAL: Turnbow "might" be worth the risk, but if the Pirates are one of three teams still pursuing him, he probably has them 3rd on his list. Like most fringe FAs they usually sign elsewhere unless the Bucs overwhelm them....

PI

You are so right about that.

BTW--My wife has a model that looks like your avatar that she got last time she was in your country.

Ants Marching

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www.youtube.com/watch