Doumit's guaranteed money: $11.5 million

This sounds like a very reasonable contract, even the option years shouldn't be back breakers at all.

Wow, seems to me the Bucs got a great deal.

I think Doumit sold himself short.

But heck, we've got him until 2013 and that's a good thing.

Congratulations to Ryan.  He has improved much in the last 2 seasons.  It's good to know he'll be a part of the core of talent for the next 3+ years.

Congrats to Ryan...glad to have him signed

How much does anyone want to bet that as time goes on it becomes apparent that Doumit left a lot of money on the table. - I am very confident that will be the case.

Good for the Bucs, but man, I think Doumit could have done much better than this.......

Hear, hear.  Reasonable money for an arbitration eligible player who projects to improve.  Also, I think the single two-year option vs. two one-year options is a nice wrinkle, one that I think benefits Ryan more than the PBC.  At any rate, woo hoo!

Define "triggered or rejected only once" please.

I'm pleased with the Doumit signing but keep it in perspective, he is a 1yr starter who has never made it through a full season injury free. Only time will tell if it is a good deal.

PoH: The option years are bundled.  One 2-yr option vs. Two 1-yr options.  If they pick up the option, he's here through 2013.  If not, he's a FA after 2011.

POH,

"Define "triggered or rejected only once" please."

Dejan elaborated on this earlier today....

The Bucs decision to exercise the option is a one time event. In 2011, they need to decide if they want to exercise the two year option for 2012 and 2013.

What they don't get is an option each year. They can't make a decision on the 2012 option and 2013 option separately.

It's all or none, which I think is fairly unique.

Do you now get the feeling that they offered Nate the same thing and he said "I am much better than that."

Hostage

Longer contracts are what some players want.  Some people actually have an idea of how much money they need and don't care if they could have gotten more a few years later.  

More threads going than one can keep up with

Personally, my standard of living would improve if I were to make $11.5 - $27 milliion in the next five years.  

Goody, we finally got something neat under the tree.  Now how about a good FA signing?

The money is there, I still want Rocco

Hostage <<Doumit left a lot of money on the table>>

You may be dead on there. I would of expected higher figures across the board, especially the option years. He would have to be injured for us to not want to exercise those options.

Good hitting catchers are hard to come by.  Good for both sides and especially us fans.

Now, who's willing to place a wager that Doumit does not live up to the expectations of this contract?  Seems like the Pirates don't get a good return after issuing a decent sized contract.

irate <<Do you now get the feeling that they offered Nate the same thing and he said "I am much better than that.">>

I feel that he thinks that if he can follow thru with another year like 2008 (maybe minus that little slump after the trades), he can really boost his leverage for an even better offer next year.

My money's on Doumit: he's got talent and more importantly he wants to play baseball, he wants to play baseball better, and he wants to play baseball every day.

POH - Great point about Doumit, he plays hard and worked even harder in the offseason, can't say that about his predecessor, hopefully he can stay healthy and Kerrigan can teach him a thing or two about calling a game.

I now have a favorite ball player on the Bucs again.  A guy that loves playing and realizes that with 11.5 million, he can say "I have enough money", wow, what a novel concept.

I mean think about it for a minute, that is enough to set you up for life.  

Maybe one can't have too much money, but you can have enough...

OK, not a bad deal for both sides i'd say....Doumit is a tough player and seems to work very hard at his position, still needs some work, lets just hope he doesnt turn into ronny paulino?! fingers crossed!  

Is it just me, or did Doug M have a great deal of spark that Ryan picked up off of, they seem to be in the same mold.  

Great work DK.

"The option's buyout would cost $500,000, and a decision on that option would have to be made before the end of the 2011 season."

Is that before the end of the Pirates' season or before the end of the World Series?

This is my thinking...how can this not be good?

The PBC and Doumit both know where they're at financially for the next 3 years at the very least.

And we know we are going to get to see him play in a Pirates uniform for those same 3 years.

I can't believe his performance will fall off unless...well, I won't even voice that -- bad mojo  ;-) ....he seems to me to be one of those guys that will go out there and bust his backside every game.  And he showed last year how committed he was to playing every day with his improved off-season workout, diet, etc.

I can't wait for ST!  

Speaking of Dirty Doug, any word on whats going on with him?  Last I heard he and PBC had talked but no offer was made.

Have no fear. He'll never see those option years.

If he gets better, all of the "fans" here will be clamoring for a trade to get more untested prospects. And if he doesn't get better, he'll be traded -- after which he'll improve.

Either scenario ends with a trade.

Irate,

If that is what they offered Nate, I definitely understand why he would choose to go year by year because if Nate has another year like 2008, he will be worth a great deal more than Doumit accepted.

Perhaps Doumits bargaining position was impacted by his history of injuries?

NH, hard to believe, but maybe RD is just happy where he is?  Whoa, Bizrow, don't stand up so quick, on all these meds, it makes you dizzy.....

Wow, some powerful updates, now Bizrow, bend over put your head between your legs and breathe into that bag...

LOL...Bizrow...I can join you on that trip.  I can see Doumit liking it here.  He's getting to play every day and do that behind the plate, which I believe is his preferred position.

Hang in there Bizzy.

Get your rest buddy.

;-)

Biz

Keep things together and don't fall over :)

Bizrow good question what about Doug

and Nutting your right about Nate if he hits .275-.280 with 20-25 HRs 100+ RBIs 100+ runs and 20+ SB and Gold Glove defense his price could be through the roof for Pirate standards i could see the same thing happening with Maholm i remember when he tossed the complete game two years ago vs Houton that night on ESPN Steve Phillips said he thought within 2-3 years Maholm would be one of the best pitchers in the NL so sign him now!!!!

Damn!  I should have waited to post...I just read DK's updates.

I love his attitude and everything he brings to this team...on and off the field.    Such a good guy, it seems.

Quote from RD.... "I'm excited. I can't wait. If I had my way, spring training would start tomorrow."

Who can argue with that attitude?

Thundercrack: <Is that before the end of the Pirates' season or before the end of the World Series?>

Same difference. *G*

Some coverage of the signing

www.examiner.com/x-1088-MLB-Examiner~y2008m12d22-Pirates-extend-Doumit

www.google.com/.../ALeqM5gDLGoZyPmecCWrBlhN4tUPvVMcqw

mlb.fanhouse.com/.../pirates-extend-ryan-doumit

Marty

Pirates still talking to Maholm about a long term deal.   Some sources say a signing is likely but you never know with these things.

Great for Ryan.He worked his butt off last year in the offseason and excelled.  A great attitude as well. . (Hope Chris Duffy is reading this now....)

This deal with Doumit (fair for both sides) makes the Bucs contract with Jason Kendall of 10 years ago the biggest blunder in Bucco history.  Doumit's much better than Kendall.

"You're either on board or you aren't." -- Anyone else take this as a message to Jack?

If so, I couldn't agree with RD more.  Stop crying, put on the uniform and play your heart out.  I know I would if I was getting paid like Jack.

JAL

I hope because I think Maholm has the potential to become one of the more dominating leftys in the game maybe not as dominate as a Sabbathia but still pretty dominate

Re: McLouth:  We don't know the specifics of why the talks broke down, but boy, I hope they get re-started.  McLouth has had improvement every year.  Granted, they can't just throw money at him, but the sooner they get a deal done, the better off they'll be.  Maybe I'm crazy, but I'd love to see McLouth in the three hole and Doumit hitting fourth, or vice versa, for the next five years!

BuccoFever

Yes and no because i think Jack wants to win more then anyone else because hes been here so long but at the same time i could see why he wants to be traded to a Detroit or LA or another team that can compete for the playoffs or for a championship next year

Nate is taking a gamble by waiting for mo money,  his numbers dropped in the second half last season so it will be interesting to see what happens this yr., if he has a bad yr or gets injured his value will drop. I'm with Ryan D. take the guaranteed money, eliminate any uncertainty about your future and concentrate on working your tail off to improve.

Bizrow - I'm joinging you on the Rocco Baldelli Bandwagon.  

Rocco should be a Bucco.  

certain guys on board?  

implies certain guys not on board?

was he complimenting Adam, Jack and Freddy, or calling them out?  Hard to tell from the printed word.

Keys to 2009 being over .500 ----

1 - quality starts by pitching staff

2 - Adam LaRoche hits well in early season

3 - who's on third?

I can't fault either Ryan or Nate -- two guys, two different decisions, two different agents, hopefully the same set of personal expectations -- work hard, play hard, win.

I'll jump on the Rocco bandwagon too this is a guy who was a legit 5 tool guy untill his career got slowed by his illness

Larry

4 - Jack & Freddy healthy

5 - Nyjer keeps hitting

6 - Moss plays up to potential

7 - Reliable Bullpen

BuccoFever - You're not the only one that had that thought when reading his quote.  That is definitely sending a message.  I think this is a great signing.  Doumit is now locked in at a set price through what should be the most productive years of his career (if you subscribe to the 27-33 age peak theory).  One thing he has always done whenever he's been healthy is hit, hit and hit more.   And last year you could see him becoming a leader on the team.  Hearing that remark about getting on board just drives it home more.  

I had gotten my first call of the offseason from the bucco ticket folks about options for renewing my plan last week, and at the time I wasn't sure whether to laugh at the woman or just hang up.  Now I might actually have to look into re-upping.

And I totally agree with the person who said they push hard on getting Maholm signed long-term..yes - do it now!  

Bless his heart. I'm so excited I can hardly stand myself.

LET'S GO BUCS!!!!!!!

Come on Larry

I Don't know is on third

Who's on first  :)

\My take on that wasn't that he was calling anyone out or anything, just making a few points on the good things that need to happen.  That's to say, I don't think he meant his remarks as digs...if those things happen, then it will be an exciting year.  

sounds like the only guys RD was complimenting were Mclough and Moss.  Yes, the Moss who everyone that wants to say Bay trade was entirely pointless and useless always seems to forget about.

I don't get the feeling Big Laroche would ever be a clubhouse problem, but I can see those 2 infielders becoming one, and maybe that's what he's saying..stop trying to GM the team and just do your jobs.  

Who is 'mclough' - man, I need to spellcheck myself in here.

quick question isn't Moss going to miss the begining of the year b/c of his knee

Matt -- << can see those 2 infielders becoming one [clubouse problem], and maybe that's what he's saying..stop trying to GM the team and just do your jobs.  

I saw Jack's remarks the other day -- AFAICT Freddy has not said anything.  

DMac -- you are probably right.  I could read it both ways, but would think that he's been a ballplayer long enough to know the unwritten rules.

Marty

there was a story a couple of weeks ago that Moss is ahead of schedule to be ready the season.  

pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

so it looks like LF-Morgan CF-McLouth RF-Moss or at least to start season personally i'd so LF-McLouth CF-McCutchen    RF-Moss

If you were in the PBC clubhouse who would you rather have as a teammate, Ryan"I can't wait for spring training" or Jack "they promised me better teammates". To me it's a no brainer. Trading Jack may be addition by subtraction. There is little about him that says "team" and a lot that says"me first"

paparoach

if you had been a teams starting SS for 8 going on 9 years now, and been when of the better SS in the league during thsi time, and the team promised you they would try and compete and tehy've done nothing but stupid trades and signings that would not help them compete the whole time wouldn't you be a bit upset too?

DK.....Moss able to "participate "in a protective mode" all through spring training"....

Does “protective mode” imply that they are going to limit his workload, or just keep a close watch on it?

Larry Z - (If you're still lurking about)

We got briefly interested in the career of Larry Demery on a previous thread today. Our poster Larry Demery said he thought the Pirates pitcher Demery (whose sole experience in the Bigs was with the Pirates from 1974-77) blew out his arm.

I checked the transactions on him, and it says he was picked up off waivers by the Blue Jays from the Pirates on March 27, 1978 (probably after spring training).

BUT it also says he was returned to the Pirates four days later, on March 31. Sounds like damaged goods to me ...

Marty you are right I probably would be upset BUT I would not go public calling my teammates incompetent,by implication if not directly. It goes against everything that defines a team. I do not suggest all 25 players have to be best buds off the field but without respect on the field, winning just doesn't happen.

It is probably more a matter of trust. Its the reason the Pens went to West Point. How many industries spend lots of money sending their employees to team building courses. When Jack comes out in public and disrespects his teammates only bad can come from it.

Doumit is a gamer, but he needs to stay healthy.  I think if he hadn't been injury plagued in the past, his award would have been larger.

Doumit is the type of guy who could fit in any era.  Can't you just picture him blocking the plate to tag out a sliding with spikes up,  Ty Cobb.  

Pardon me if this is old news, but it looks like the Angels have joined the Red Sox in saying no to Mr. Boras for Mark Texiera.

www.latimes.com/.../la-sp-angels22-2008dec22,0,7819285.story

Wonder if he'll wind up with Washington after all, or maybe when everybody else gets disgusted FC will step in and make a lowball offer. 8^)

@Cave - "Doumit is the type of guy who could fit in any era.  Can't you just picture him blocking the plate to tag out a sliding with spikes up,  Ty Cobb?"

Mostly, I can see Doumit going on the DL for six weeks after Cobbs comes in, spikes up! But maybe after Doumit would've gotten through with him, Cobb would've spent some time on the DL, too!

Honus got Cobb pretty good.

JHadar - In a way, it's nice to hear even the big boys say "enough of the economics of paying people unreasonable salaries.

I mean, really. Srsly. Are Sabatha, Texiera and Burnett THAT good?

Glad to hear you're back at work. Did you get your car started? How about a snow photo now? The ones you linked from the Fort Dodge paper were nice, but I'd like to see one of you and the lovely Mrs. Hadar out in the front yard!

Baywatch - thanks for the Larry Demery information. Sounds like an unfortunately career for him. Looked promising though.

Goodnight to all. May tomorrow bring more presents fornthe PIrates!!

I would not have signed Doumit. What's wrong with paying him through arbitration? He's made it through one of nine professional seasons without getting hurt. I'd think the Pirates would like those odds and the arbitration numbers would back up management. We shall see..

Bay, it was 15 below here.  I was actually going to take a cell phone pic of the front yard from the van on the way to work this morning, but with needing a ride, I thought it best not to hold things up.  Now it's dark.  

I'm probably not going to haul the wheelchair out of doors in this weather unless I have to and no way do I trust a cane on ice.  So if I do get a picture done -- and I intend to -- I probably won't be in it.  

JHadar - 10-4, Good Buddy ... You're in a wheelchair, and using a cane? Why would you let little things like that hold you up :-)

Yer pal, The Bayv

Bay, I thought I had mentioned that before -- just part of life, you play the hand you're dealt and all that.  

Just watched the video of Doumit's signing.  He was definitely not calling anyone out -- just saying he thought there were a few guys who had bad years, bad breaks last year.  Quite a difference between the printed and spoken word.  He seemed a little nervous -- but I really liked the way he put emphasis on words like "job" and "duty"

JHadar - I agree with you. I just watched the video ... great presentation, and very impressive young man. Go Bucs!

Congratultaions to the pirates and ryan.  A good deal for both sides I think.  Its nice to the pirates lock up a homegrown product longterm.

@Plenty of Hope wrote re: Doumit's guaranteed money: $11.5 million

on Dec 22, 2008 2:41 PM

My money's on Doumit: he's got talent and more importantly he wants to play baseball, he wants to play baseball better, and he wants to play baseball every day.

___________

You forgot that he wants to play here with the Pirates and that good things are to come.

I think it;s a good deal for the PBC and RD.  Not outragous in todays salarlies for ballplayers.  Which I think are to high anyweay...

Saw his live speech.  Not calling anyone out but stressing we all have a job to do.  At least that is how I heard it.

Note I did not see his speech live.  A tape of his speech is what I meant.  sorry if that confussed anyone.

Besides my typing mistakes that is....

If one wants the right to complain, they've got to give credit where it's due...so kudos to the Pirates front office on this one.

It seems like a great deal, but given Doumit's injury history, not all that great if he continues his injury woes. With that said however, even with injuries, Doumit's value through arbitration likely would have escalated to the levels set in this deal...so it seems like a win-win for the Pirates.

As for Doumit, I'm glad to see that he was willing to grant those option years beyond 2011. I was beginning to worry that our current core (Doumit, McLouth, Maholm, Gorzy) wasn't going to be around by the time our next wave arrived, but this shows that management is at least trying to keep the current core in tact for a shot at winning between 2011-2013. (Because, whether they want to admit to a window or not, that's where it opens and likely closes with all the current guys heading to FA around then.) Doumit proved his loyalty with this deal and I hope he can convince the other core players to do the same.

I'm sure McLouth asked for the sky and the Pirates offered peanuts, but I don't really have a problem with that at this point. I'll be the first to admit I had McLouth penciled in as nothing more than a 4th outfielder even as we went into Spring Training last year, so his breakout was quite a pleasant surprise to me. That being said, doing it for one year and doing it on a consistent basis are two completely different things. So if he wanted money that a consistent 20-25HR, 90RBI, Gold glove CF commands, (ie: $8-$10 million/year) better to wait one more year to see him perform at that level again.

POH,

I think you messed up the link when you posted your Doumit celebration dance.

But don't worry, I found the right one....

www.youtube.com/watch

Thank you so much for posting video of that!  

As JH said, it's one thing to see the words in writing, but something else entirely to hear them from the speaker.   His sincerity is real and refreshing, and I get the sense that he's ready to do what it takes to turn this thing around.

@Maz...I know...delayed comment, but I couldn't open ESPN at work.  That Dmac is NOT me.  My username on that site is different...now I know why.  :-/

I happen to think we'll do better than .500 ball in 2009.  :-)

The numbers of the contract don't look too outrageous considering what some of the players get. I'm glad Doumit has high expectations for himself and plans to deliver his best for his team and his fans. That's what I'm counting on from him. I'm glad to see from the video that he's still looking very much in shape.

To anyone who doesn't like what Wilson said ... are you serious? I suppose you didn't like what Bay said during PiratesFest back in January either. The organization hasn't done what it should've been doing over the last decade and a half. What's wrong with telling it like it is? In recent years we've seen little talent and lots of apathetic play. Ownership & management are responsible for making the Pirates a laughingstock in the sports world. Why isn't Wilson allowed to call them out their "accountability"?

evening link

Sports in 2008 was enough to drive someone bats

www.iht.com/.../Yearender-Sports-Quirks.php

Congratulations to Doumit and the Pirates. If Ryan has more years like 2008, he probably could have made more through arbitration. But $11.5 MM isn't exactly Chef Boyardee ravioli. Finally, an actual off-season move of consequence involving a player. Merry Christmas to us!

I like the deal for Doumit from the Pirates end.  Do you realize that through 2010, he will cost the Bucs only about a million more than Ramon Vasquez?  If things go well for the young Bucs infield, Vasquez is going to collect 4 million over the next two years eating sunflower seeds and drinking gatorade in the dugout.  While the guaranteed money is nice, how can one fault McLouth for thinking he's worth more in the next two years than Ramon Vasquez?  I don't blame the Bucs for not throwing money at McLouth after one rather exceptional season, but come on folks, he's worth at least twice as much as Ramon Vasquez (or any other Utility infielder)

Thanks for the video DK..........we really have a special player in Ryan.

DK

Now you have me wanting to stay up until midnight  to see who you talked to about what.  

DK: Does that mean the auto posts are all ready already? *G*  Time to set the ol' alarm clock and take a nap until 12:40 AM.

Geez, DK!  Now I'm going to HAVE to read those before I leave tomorrow morning.  I won't make it to the airport without going crazy wondering what you wrote about.  ;-)

D-Mac

Traveling for the holidays?  Where you headed to?  I'm going to Morgantown (exciting) but driving and not leaving until Christmas Day.

LOL...But you teased, DK!

It's a thing...I'll go nuts if I don't read before I leave.  It's along time from here to Chicago, to Omaha, then Lincoln with the wondering-thing going on -- little things or not!  :-)

With that, I'll sign out for the night...4am is going to come very early.

DK

OK--so it is not that Teixeira decided to sign with Pirates with same contract Doumit got :)

now your a funny guy

D-mac

Safe traveling

DMac -- You're not lugging a laptop and staying on line in flight?

Best wishes for a safe journey.

Thanks, All.

JH...if I had a laptop, I'd be lugging it. Srsly.

I'm going to have to buy myself one for Christmas, I guess.  ;-)

Ant's Marching

================================================

www.youtube.com/watch