Pirates inquire about Cabrera

No!

Well, on second thought, they said Sandy Koufax was wild as a buck until he turned 27 ... but let's convert Hansen before we have a stable full of wild horses.

But I will say this much ... If Kerrigan can convert someone like Cabrera, something is afoot with our PBC.

Bay- 100% agreement on this. Three words : Drop the phone.  Cabrera is very talented, but everytime he seems to string 5 or 6 good starts in a row, the next two months its like watch Rich Ankiel pitch in the playoffs again.  

Bay- I have to think that after working with Leo Mazone and Jim Palmer in baltimore, there is something bizarre about Cabrera  that he may not correct.  If I were him, I'd sign with either the Giants, Royals or Padres.  

.  Remember he started the 30-6 beating the Orioles took in 2007.

I hope that this inquirey is with Kerrigan's iinput, maybe he thinks he can right him.......I don't know, but I hope that they know what they're doing.

But it is someone with a possible upside, is it not?  Reds signed Nix, 48 hrs in AAA in less than 800 at bats, Reds also chose Hamilton in Rule 5, turned that into a pretty good pitcher, please don't sign retreads to million dollar contracts. Nix was 600k plus gravy

Cabrera's problem seems to be an inability to pitch with runners on base.  His Era was whopping 19.34 with RISP and 2 outs. 8.84 with RISP.  

JAL -- Needs to learn to throw out of the stretch ???

However, if you gave me the choice of Paul Byrd, and Daniel Cabrera, I'd take Cabrera. Cabrera would be the perfect non-roster invitee, but he has more monetary value than that.  

The only way I'd touch Cabrera would be to buy low and trade him after he two hits the cubs, because it will end ugly.  

THIS is the type of chance we need to take. A pitcher with potential not retread utility players. Take a chance Neal

Would he be worth as much to us as Vazquez, with his 2-year $4 million contract? I have no idea how the Pirates would approach something like this, or if they could afford it ... He made $2,875,000 in 2008.

JH

Also needs better control--walks put them on and they score.

Catch this from last season--180 innings--199 hits-90 walks--95 K

No surprise we asked about em, this is Neals type of guy. I like this, like someone said above this is the type of chance we need to take, IF we can get him at a good price, but with 11, 12 teams on the wagon, I don't like our chances.

DK excellent question. We got rid of one (Bautista) so our total remains the same. It may be we are asking too much of Joe Kerrigan but my idea is if we give him enough raw materials he can fashion a few MLB quality strike throwers. It certainly is a better, IMHO, use of funds than a right handed power hitter whose power only (or almost only) works in the Little League dimensions of Minute Maid.

I'm all for a hard-thrower, but it would be nice to see a pitcher that had a history of a little control as well.

Can Kerrigan work that kind of wizardry?

DK...

It seems to me (of course, you probably know more given that you're in Pittsburgh and I've lived my whole life in Utah) that NH seems to think that the pitching coach will work some type of magic with the pitchers that throw high heat but can't control it. Or maybe he's just hoping that they all have career years at the same time, but if that's the case, it's going to be a very short-lasting NH era here.

We haven't seen anything of it yet, but maybe new pitching coach = success? And even if not, it's probably worth a shot... this team isn't going to win the WS or anything this year (without a lot of luck).

In the past there have been other decent free agents that the Bucs were interested in. Ultimately, if it comes down between any other team and the Pirates, the other team usually gets the guy. They had a good interest in Chad Durbin last year and look what happened (Durbin had a good year with the Phillies). Basically we've been bottom feeders that get everyone's leftovers.....

"Moreover, for the stats geeks among you, where is the evidence that supports the idea that people who issue tons of walks up to a certain point in their careers magically find the light at, oh, age 28 or 29? Where has that happened?"

@DK,

Not a stats geek, however, Steve Carton seemed to figure out how to pitch without walking > 100 per season at age 31.  He started out his career with pretty good control, but got "wild" in his mid 20's.

Age 23 - 61 BB

Age 24 - 93 BB

Age 25 - 109 BB

Age 26 - 98 BB

Age 27 - 87 BB (346.1 IP!!!! - WOW)

Age 28 - 113 BB

Age 29 - 136 BB

Age 30 - 104 BB

Granted he was pitching > 250 innings most years and in some cases > 300 innings!  He never walked more than 100 during the remainder of his career.......

DK - From what I understand, Koufax was that story ... very wild up until about age 27 or so .. Actually, he's the only one I'm familiar with that reversed his control issues ... actually, I just checked his numbers. He got it figured out by age 25, plus it looks like his control issues were nothing like Cabrera's ... worst year was 1958 ... 105 walks in 158 innings.

Here are the rest of his numbers: www.baseball-reference.com/.../koufasa01.shtml

But you pose an interesting question. Would make a nice read on how many have really overcome wildness.

Dejan,

It very happens, but there is one very prominent example that I can think of off the top of my head - Randy Johnson.

www.baseball-reference.com/.../johnsra05.shtml

As a 28 year old, he issued 144 walks, 18 HBP, and 13 wild pitches.  Then in his mid-thirties, not only was he dominant, but his K/BB was very impressive (372 / 71 as a 37 year old).

This is not to suggest it will happen with Cabrera, but there is at least one example of it happening in recent history.  

Wouldn't you rather have Cabrera than Paul Byrd if you're in the Pirates position?  Every transaction they make should be with an eye towards buying low and selling high as long as they don't block any deserving prospects.  Paul Byrd is what he is and he won't get any better.  At least if Cabrera improves, you could try to flip him at the deadline or next offseason.  

After reading JAL's nugget, "his Era was whopping 19.34 with RISP and 2 outs. 8.84 with RISP", all I can say is: no more than an invite to compete for a  minor league contract. Maybe this guy can replace Jason Davis at Indy. The two seem to have had similar RISP stats.

Edit for my post - Steve Carton = Steve Carlton....

;-)

Even IF Kerrigan is a wizard, I think he has plenty to do already with the returning staff.

Can we (meaning the PBC) just NOT call guys with high ERAs and walks? Is that too much to ask?

Srsly.

So there have been a few pitchers that have improved their control relatively later in their career; but our staff already needs a lot of coaching help, can we handle another project pitcher?

The Randy Johnson example: he actually had an even worse year prior to the one mentioned. He walked 152 batters the previous year, in less innings. BUT, both in Johnson's case, and Steve Carlton's as well, they had already had season's in the books where they HAD NOT been so atrocious in dealing out walks. There was something "there" to be worked with. Is there anything "there" with Cabrera? 2004 and 2005 indicate... mayyyybe..."  Again, an invite for a minor league contract. Let him flesh out Indy's staff. Don't bump Ohlendorf, Burnett, or anyone else for this guy.

Very true...Kerrigan has enough work to do.

I wouldn't like to see another project added to his list.

The Pirates will eventually teach me the phrase "gasoline on a fire" in every language.  (German: Vogelsong, Dutch: Van Benschoten, Japanese: Kuwata).  I thought the Spanish word for this was "Osoria", and that "Cabrera" meant "sixteen consecutive losing seasons".  But maybe "Cabrera" can also mean "multi-million dollar gasoline on a fire".

I guess Hindi is next.

DK

It is rare--the oft-used Sandy Koufax started figured things out by 22--he threw 17 wild pitches and only 5 at 23.  He was never a strong control pitcher but his walks started decreasing at age 23 and his strikeouts started going up.

age 22--105 BB  131 K

age 23--92 BB 173 K

age 24--100 BBB 197 K

age 25--96 BB  269 K

age 26--57 BB 216 K

age 27-58 BB 306 K

By age 23 his strikeouts were significantly higher than his walks while Cabrera is 90 to 95

Management has stated that they prefer hard throwers to the contact type pitchers, and they seem to be sticking to that line of thought. I hope that they have good reason to think that he can improve his control.

I would like to see a pitcher that can throw strikes!!!  It is amazing as to how many pitchers on the roster that has high walk totals and era's.  

JL

Thanks taking over on Michaels in the other thread--appreciated someone understanding what I was posting.

Looking back at Carlton's stats reminded me of the different eras in baseball.  The pitcher I grew up watching weren't pampered by any stretch of the imagination.  A 4 man rotation was "normal with a swing guy to pitch a game when one of the starters was extended in an outing.  Can you imagine 30 complete games in one season now?  Most of todays pitchers won't achieve that number of complete games in their careers!

In 1972, at age 27, Carlton started 41 games with 8 shut outs and 30 complete games!    www.baseball-reference.com/c/carltst01.shtml

Thing about Johnson and Carleton is that, like Koufax, they were striking out a lot more batters than were walking.

Did you know that the '71 Pirates started six different pitchers in the first six games of the World Series vs. Baltimore? I think it was Blass, Ellis, Luke Walker, Bob Johnson, Bob Moose and Nellie Briles (though not in that order) - with Kison as the swing man.  

DK, I'd say with the current condition of the PBC, not to mention the current condition of our asylum, I'd buy as many lottery tickets as I can.  You never know, and hitting the lottery one time, well, we could use that, could we not?

One Wiggy @ 4 or 5 MM per year, what could our guy do in Latin America?

Or that pretty much pays for a solid draft?

Deal for Cabrera, if right, no deal for part time players.

BTU

JAL,

Happy to pitch in, anytime.

Allarmy brings up a good point about "then" vs. "now." Don't know how much it was mentioned when the Red Sox were courting Daisuke Matsuzaka, but many a time he had 150+ pitch count games while still with the Seibu Lions in Japan. In general, Japanese pitchers throw more pitches in season, and continue to practice pitching, year-round. Doesn't seem to hurt them; certainly didn't hurt Matsuzaka.

One can only grasp at so many straws - or reclamation projects - at one time.

There has to be someone out there who already knows how to pitch...even just a little bit....

Duke

It was Ellis, Johnson, Blass, Walker, Briles, Moose, and Blass

"Deal for Cabrera..."

Still trying to "deal" away players, or otherwise "blow up" what little's left of the club, even when we don't have to? Cabrera is a free agent, my friend.

@JL

I was watching a Sunday Night game on ESPN a couple of years ago and Juan Marichal was in the booth and he was discussing a game where he pitched 16 innings.  He said he threw over 240 pitches in that game and wondered why "pitch counts" were so important today.......  It was a different game when I was growing up.

BTW, Blass pitched 2 complete games in the '71 series, with an ERA of 1.00!!!!!!!

i would love to see us sign cabrera this kid has ALOT of talent if someone can hone his arm and get him to cut down on the walks he can be a dominant pitcher

The other thing about the pitchers of past eras is that many were quite durable and they were doing it without the benefits of the technology and health advances today's pitchers have.  Warren Spahn pitched 245 or more innings for 17 straight years and went 23-7 at age 42.

Management’s plans seem to be in flux. Going into the WM’s they implied that they were interested in a veteran pitcher that can fill out the staff and perhaps mentor the young pitchers. Cabrera doesn’t fit that profile at all, If they sign Cabrera, are they still considering the veteran/mentor type too?

Lot of "ifs" there, Marty.

All, gotta go to my little one's Christmas show. Don't really enjoy these things. But it's not for me. It's for them.

See most of you tomorrow. See any stragglers, later tonight. Until then, no "blowing up" the team!!

DK,

I don't have a true method, but it here it goes..

Randy Johnson, 1989, 160 IP, 96 BB, 130K, 1.51 (Whip, Walks + hits / ip)

Randy Johnson, 1992, 210 IP, 144 BB, 241 K, 1.417 Whip

Randy Johsnon , 1993 255 IP, 99 BB, 308 K, 1.12 WHIP

Nolan Ryan, 1971, 151 IP, 116 BB, 137 K, 1.58 WHIP

Nolan Ryan, 1972, 284 IP, 157 BB, 329 K, 1.13 WHIP

Nolan Ryan, 1980, 233 IP, 98 BB, 200K , 1.29 WHIP

Joe Cowley,, 1985, 159 IP, 85BB, 97K, 1.359 WHIP

Joe Cowely, 1986, 162 IP, 83 BB, 132K, 1.31 WHIP

Out of baseball in May 1987

Mike Dunne, 1987, 163 IP, 68 BB, 72K, 1.29 WHIP

Mike Dunne, 1988, 170 IP, 88 BB, 70K, 1.47 WHIP

Out of basebal, Oct 1992

Basically, with some of history's high strikeout guys, there WHIPs decreased as they were in the league within 4 years.  

DCAB WHIPs.. (last 4 years), 1.432, 1.581, 1.542, 1.606

Sadly I don't think this is probable, especially in era of pitch count monitoring. With Dunne and Cowley, they became injured and ineffective.

If I'm Dcab's agent, I sign with the Rangers, allow Nolan to work with me like he did with Randy Johnson and post-Pujols Lidge, and maybe he's A.J. Burnett.

I think a lot of Kerrigan, but I don't think even he can completely reverse D Cab.  

JL

Enjoy as best you can

DK--

You should be leery--phenomenal talents are phenomenal because they are different.

Here some very statistical stuff on the subject.

www.tangotiger.net/adjacentPitching.html

i say just take a chance on the kid what do we got to lose not alot

JL and JAL- I like a veteran bat with some pop in the late innings (John Werner fit that role), that isn't good enough to start, but is the proverbial 4th/5th outfielder after being average as a starter 2-3 years prior is a good qualification.  

Gary Redus was a good example of this.  Duffy would have been ideal, had he wanted to do so.

WSB

I agree--a veteran bat with pop is nice to have.

What intrigues me about Cabrera is that for his career, opposing batters hit only .255 against him and he sports an amazing 1.40 GO/FO ratio. For a guy that throws gas, that's an amazingly high percentage of groundballs. In addition, despite his high BB rate, he holds RH's to a .238 BA and has a respectable 1.37 WHIP.

That's the good news. The bad, and what concerns me most as you translate his game to PNC? He has a career 1.72 WHIP against LH's and they hit .277 against him. It's not as much the BAA LH's that bothers me, but the WHIP indicates that he either is afraid to attack LH's or there's a mechanical problem in him that needs work.

In addition to that, something happened to him last year, just before the AS Break. He was throwing decently (for him), carrying a 4.33 ERA, then all heck broke loose for him after that. I would like to know if he's healthy before I commit any money to him.

Marty- Watching Cabrera may be the most maddening baseball experience ever.  He can shut out the Yankees on 2 hits, and then be knocked out in the next 3 starts by the Twins, A's, and Royals.   Wierd part was in Mid-May he was mentioned as an all-star candidate.

One thing I like about Cabrera is he pitches inside, A LOT.  He has hit 51 batters in his brief career,  He would make Don Drysdale proud.......

Stargell- maybe the elbow?  Maybe that explains why he essentially fell off the mountain after June 1st.

Also, keep in mind that after Labor day, the O's normally play the Yankees and Red Sox, which have proven to be determential to a pitcher's statistics (but not dcab).  

www.baltimoresun.com/.../bal-osnotes1215,0,2707756.story

Sorry this is from the other thread.  But wanted to add my thoughts.

@TheWu420 wrote re: Michaels goes to Astros

on Dec 15, 2008 4:22 PM

Maybe its no1 and go with the young guys you have.....Look if you want to sign guys to 1-2 year deals just to appease fans and make it look like your spending money is it really worth it?

______

No it's not worth it if you think they are here to bring you a WS.  Wiggy would be to help out lil LA if he faulters and or needs a couple of days rest and instruction.  Also to help back up other infiled and outfiield positions.  Not a starter and not the answer.  Just a good step until the youngins are ready.  You cannot throw them all into the fire it will retard their developement.  See lil LA last year.  It would have been nice to give him a break or to.  Not put all the pressure on him at once.  You need to work young guys in, not toss them into a fire.

As for Micheal's sure we could have kept him.  But we have Moss and Pearce and it seems Morgan who should be better this year and had some time to grow without being full timers.  This is what we need to do with Lil LA and anyone else that comes up.  

Unless they are can't miss prospects (maybe Pedro A) you still need others to help that position until we are sure they are ready for full time.

Think Bixler and Cruz would have relaxed a bit if they were not thrown in gamne and asked to preform right of the bat?  Maybe they would have and maybe not but it's a better way to break them in.  Remember they were not can't miss players as well.  We don't have the can't miss players to toss into a game.  They need seasoning.  In AAA and part time in the bigs the first year they are here.  That means you need players to help them out.  Give them time to adjust and time to relax. Take the presure off. Get into the flow of the majors.

This is how you rebuild on a low budget.  Site the cost of him all you want.  I would like to see that money spent if it helps this team out in the long term.  Getting someone like Peavy would be great but that price for this club is not what we need right now nor would it help in the long run. We have pitchers and they have more time in the bigs so now it's up to them to put up or shut up.  We do have others thanks to the trades made if any one of them fails to improve.

A couple of these types of moves need to be made for now.  Bring in and spend for the finale pieces once these guys are ready.  Let things shake out this year.  we will have more options next year and the year after.  Then the spending should increase on this team to add the pieces needed at that time.  Yes it means more players being let go and or traded but that is the way of baseball mnore than any other sport.

@All about the cap.  I stated that a while back as well and we had small conversations on it.  I think you all have covered it to death for now.  I see nothing to add to your comments.

For Cabrera it seems like we have a barrel of apples and some are little dinged up or not fully ripe. Seems we are digging to see if we can find one that would be good enough to add to our table..  Chances get better the more apples you add to the barrel.  The issue with this is the price you are paying the all the apples.  If the price is not that much then it's worth all you can get.

Minor league deals would have to be made and not just add them all to the major league staff.  Joe K will not be the only one to help them out either.  Minor league coaches will have to follow the plan or plans for them.

This is the issue when you are trying to find talent when you cnnot afford or add major long term talent.

Everything else aside, I do not want the Bucs to sign someone who shares a last name with the guy whose base hit drove in Sid Bream that infamous night in 1992.

@Allarmy-retired wrote re: Pirates inquire about Cabrera

on Dec 15, 2008 10:12 PM

One thing I like about Cabrera is he pitches inside, A LOT.  He has hit 51 batters in his brief career,  He would make Don Drysdale proud.......

Pitch insdie!!!!!!!  Sign him and he can show the others,,,,,,

LOL

stepping in for a moment,

JAL<Jason>  I would like to add your stats are right omn with jason.  Your assessment of his value is correct.  He did have the uncanny of coming off the bench for hits when they were needed and counted.

In the era of uplifting this team, why not try and upgrade what jason brought us game in and game out.

The number of hits at the right time at one point this summer i was thinking man oh man he comes off the bench like Jerry lynch.

wise warning by DK about phenons and the rest of us.  But, I think WSB and JAL are also correct with thier evaluations with regards to righting a wrong ship.

Sandy was close to being sent out at one time.  

All this talk about Pearce tends to forget or ignore or think he will just come back having instilled knowledge and ability to hit a curve ball.  If he does not swing every day all day all winter at off speed and breaking balls and can hit the seam off those pitch's, there is no room for him.

we have lots more needs than a fastball specialist and if he does not hit that same seam off the ball in st I do not see him coming north, I think he is close to being in the same position with management as Jose, put up or...

@jersey joe wrote re: Pirates inquire about Cabrera

on Dec 15, 2008 10:42 PM

All this talk about Pearce tends to forget or ignore or think he will just come back having instilled knowledge and ability to hit a curve ball.  If he does not swing every day all day all winter at off speed and breaking balls and can hit the seam off those pitch's, there is no room for him.

we have lots more needs than a fastball specialist and if he does not hit that same seam off the ball in st I do not see him coming north, I think he is close to being in the same position with management as Jose, put up or...

-------------

Not seeing the comments that Pearce is an answer anywhere?  Okay you don't like him for reasons of not hitting a curve or slow pitch.  That's fine. The comments I see/saw all say he has to hit them as well.  That he is another option for us in a few places is all.

Did I miss something?

MLB wont have to worry about to many maple bats shattering in Pittsburgh with the wildness we will display....

Hansen, Veal, Meek, Cabrera, Gorzo, Snell.....Kerrigan must be regretting this decision

Pearce can play corner OF and a lil 1B if needed....unless Andrew goes off in ST he'll get a chance in the big leagues because that AAA OF is going to be crowded

Plus Pearce hasn't even gotten a chance to face major league pitching everyday he is always sept callups and splitting time with Jason Micahels last year (Which makes 0 sense).....let the young kids play and give them their shot this year

@TheWu420

There is a least one we can agree one to get some playing time.  Pearce.  He had a taste let's see if he can get it done now.  He does need to hit the curve and slow stuff better though That I agree with JJ on.

The Wu,

I think I'm only repeating what MadTurk already said (correct me if I'm wrong, Mad) but you can't just throw all our kids out there with a simple, "Have at it." They need to be broken in, with a complement of veterans to spell them, mentor them, and take over for them at times. I believe we ALL are looking forward to an outfield in the near future of McClout (intentional spelling mistake), McClutcheon (hey! I'm on a roll), and Tabata (Da Battah!... okay, I'll work on that one...how about "He puts the 'bat' in 'Tabata' "...?).  But we can't snap our fingers and make it all come true, by tomorrow.

@JL wrote re: Pirates inquire about Cabrera

on Dec 16, 2008 12:02 AM

The Wu,

I think I'm only repeating what MadTurk already said (correct me if I'm wrong, Mad)

You got it heart and soul.

MADTURK,  I think the brass does not give him much hope.

I am all for seeing him crush a curve ball.  It is my interpatation that he is close to being catagorized as they did with Jose.

I think he would put more balls in play during the first three months playing first base than we would get put in play from Adam.  Heck, I am for giving him three months to put the ball in play and see if he can begin to handle those pitch's he has trouble with.

I think three months of starting would be a fair shot to give him to show if he gets a stable chance he could learn to hit it.

Him not hitting a curve ball he will still put the ball in play more than Adam not hitting the ball at all.

If we get no one else to play first by the first game next year, I would rather see pearce than Adam at first.

I just do not think the pirates think the same way.  I think they have moved thier opinion to the point that he has to now prove himself rahter than lets put him out there for a fair period of time with out him having to check the line up card every day.

@jersey joe

I agree with you, in my last post to you I was questioning where all the talk about Pearce was....   He should get a chance.  I operfer him at first over the outfield.

OK so seriously... this is an easy call in my book. Why you ask? Simple. The same reason the steelers stuck with Jermaine Stephens and just franchise tagged Max Starks. Same reason the sixers took Shawn Bradley and why Gheorge Muresan(probably spelled wrong someone please correct me) lasted 6 years as a pro. YOU CAN NOT TEACH SIZE IN FOOTBALL OR BASKETBALL. In baseball you can't teach 94-97 MPH.

Curt Schilling stunk in Baltimore, stunk in Houston and stunk for a year in Philly. He figured it out though as soon as someone taught him to throw it over. When Mark Leiter taught him a splitee, he dominated the league for the next 7 years.

Pedro Martinez. Was alright in LA. up and down in Montreal. When he added that change up? unstoppable.

Randy Johnson. already mentioned so I'll skip.

Ok so these are the guys who made it work. Here is reason two. IAN SNELL. If there is a guy who has the same makeup as Cabrera, it has to be Ian Snell. Snelly brings the fire to bump. He puts everything he has into every pitch and when he struggles it makes him upset. Cabrera like Snell can lose it with emotions. Perhaps the two can work it out together while being the ultimate righty power pitchers this franchise has lacked since the turn of century. *Seriously when was the last time we had two guys who if they could get it over the plate for 28 games had a legitmate shot of striking out 200+? I can't even remember.

Which leads me to reason number 3. WE HAVE ALL BEEN COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW THE BUCCOS DON'T PITCH INSIDE!!!! This guy owns the inside part of the plate. I think that alone translates into success in the NL if this guy can get his mind right. By coming to pittsburgh, not having to face Boston, NYY and TB, this guy will wlk less batters and finally we will get to see the cubbies give one of our guys respect when it comes to crowding the plate. How many times have we all just wished that someone would dust Ramirez or Soriano? That entire team is right handed! Why did they suddenly start to own the beloved PBC? yes Soriano, Lee and Aram helped, but they feast on lefty pitching. PLEASE ADD A POWER RIGHTY!!!!

Viva la power arm!

Ant's Marching

=================================================

www.youtube.com/watch

JJ and Mad,

Count me in too, on wanting see more of Pearce. He hit at every level in the minors. And he looked like he was beginning to get his bearings at the major league level at the very end of last year. After he finally got his first dinger in Houston, he then launched this one rocket (against St. Louis, I think?), which, while not going especially far, distance-wise, was lined out of the ballpark about as fast as they go. And the pitch wasn't in the wheelhouse either; it was collarbone high. Pearce has some serious power. Let's find out now if he can put it all together.

DK, I am with you. Its funny seeing Cabrera's name used with the likes of Koufax, Carlton, and other HOFers. I would like to know their coaching staff during those times! How they would compare with pirates pitching staff. Good Coaching I believe is 25% of a pitchers makeup/season. I know Koufax generally had a pretty good hitting team behind him. Carlton did not many seasons if memory serves, thus is simply a stud! Todays pitching mental midgits would never be able to handle the adversity Carlton handled as he made $130k per year!! Today its; make the big leagues, last 5 years, get the big money signing with a .500 record for pitchers! Set for life!!Personally I think Cabera would have a mental breakdown with the pirates sitting on that bench and pitching for them in 2009. I know I am going to have one, sitting on my couch 3000 miles away watching them on TV!!!  Congrats so far to the steelers!