Tigers will not trade for Wilson; Twins could be in the mix

well we play the Twins this season too.  

The Twins are shopping Delmon Young.  That's exactly the kind of high risk-high reward type of deal the Bucs should be making.

Why don't we just ask the Newark Star-Ledger?  They already had him dealt last week.  They are pretty quiet on the Wilson front all the sudden.

I see Delmon Young being a piece that could work for the Pirates.  There was a story though on ESPN that said the Rays would never take him back. Pittsburgh would be a great place to correct the attitude. Tremendous upside.  

Do we think we could move Nyjer Morgan to shortstop?

That's the big flaw, who the heck plays SS?  Bixler isn't ready.  The Astros want to move Tejada.  We can dream can't we?  Seriously, though, I'd love to see Delmon Young here.  He's only 24 with some huge upside, easily more than Morgan/Pearce/Moss/Name your player.

"Do we think we could move Nyjer Morgan to shortstop?"

???????????

Delmon Young or Delwyn Young,  that is the question ? Opie did say he wanted to go younger.  Michael Young, Chris Young.  Now that is a youth movement we can count on.

Newly retired Salomon Torres showed up at the Winter Meetings? Hmmm. Is he networking for a coaching job? Wish him well with whatever he chooses to pursue.

JL -

>>Do we think we could move Nyjer Morgan to shortstop?<<

Then he would just find a way to miss the second base bag on double plays.

If my name was Page Odle, I think I would have to look into changing it.

GMan

You mean he should turn the Page?

I don't get it - I saw Everett's numbers last week, and he makes Jack look like Jimmy Rollins. Does Detroit have a minor leaguer lined up for 2010?

It would make me pretty happy if Jack ended up in Minnesota and helped them finish ahead of Detroit. Small comfort as the Bucs finish at .400, but some satisfaction anyway.

Good.  The chances of having Jack back next season have just increased.  I think it would be a mistake to trade away a great defensive SS.

Holey Moley another thread!  

How's is an inmate supposed to keep track of all of them?  ;-)

And yet another player in the "Where will Jack play next season" sweepstakes!

An ESPN blog just posted this about the Twins trying to re-interest Tampa Bay in Delmon Young:

"...according to one source who talked to the Rays' brass, they would "never" take Young back."

I can fathom reclamation projects when it's a prior injury or a down season or two that a player is recovering from. But do we really want "attitudes" on our team? We already took on one such project with Jose Tabata (though his offense --walking out on his team twice-- while not good, can be overlooked if he puts that crap behind him). But I don't know if we really should be thinking about a player that other ballclubs  don't want to have anything to do with?

Maybe NH & Co. are just feigning interest so as to get a better deal from the Dodgers. Delmon Young, or Delwyn Young? With choices like that, I say we just keep Jack for ourselves!

Oh! Cave beat me to the "Delmon or Delwyn" alliteration conundrum! Great minds...

@JRoth--<Does Detroit have a minor leaguer lined up for 2010?>>

They have 2 pretty good SS in the Minors. There was a belif by Jennifer Langosch of MLB.com that their 2nd tier prospect was a good PBC oppurtunity...I have no further info

Jack Wilson will not bring Delmon Young.  The Twins are looking for a third baseman as well.  Perhaps they'd take Jack + for Young, and I don't think I'd make that deal.

Young (Delmon) has gone to be close to arbitration eligible...

We have to have a great return or NO DEAL!!

Baywatch,

Are you over here on this thread yet? I saw you gave me a shout yesterday. Sorry I didn't get back to you. I never did get too busy on the threads, last night. Sorry 'bout America's Team last night. But them Stillers have bottled somthing magical this year. Don't want to jinx it by saying too much, but let's just say I'm getting a good feeling.

Everett signed for 1 MM per MLB Trade Rumors, ,much cheaper than Jumping Jack...

G-Man,

"... he would just find a way to miss the second base bag on double plays...."

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, rises to your level when it comes to the one-line zingers. We really ought to start a list of them. Let's see... there's this one, there was something about not being worried if Adam La Roche had you in his hunting sights... what else? Anyway, publish them.  A NYT best-seller, for sure.

JL - I'm here ... having a strange day. Let'e just say I don't need any seconal ... and all these threads isn't helping. I feel like in a small way, I can relate a little to DK's two-mile walk from the lobby to the meeting room where Maddux announced his retirement.

Thanks for the consolations. No more comments from me on the Stillers-Cowboy game ... truth be known, probably one of the reasons I'm having a bad day today. Of course, I'm wasting the Hades out of another one, too!

@G-man: >>Do we think we could move Nyjer Morgan to shortstop?<<

Then he would just find a way to miss the second base bag on double plays.

---

Ah, what a dear you are. Nice to see you today.

Last year at Piratefest I went all maternal on NyjMo. I said "Look at me. No. Look me in the eye. Good, now, don't blink. STOP OVERSLIDING SECOND BASE. Thank you, have a good winter."

He was ticked. And I don't just mean a little bit ticked. His head spun once. He said "I only did that once."

I merely said "Hunh." Which is the phonetic spelling of the Hungarian grunt that means " yeah, whatever. Tell me another one."

Who needs a third baseman!?! Someone keep them on the line for little Roach! Just kidding. Ok , not really kidding but don't yinz get all worked up.

Only way Nyjer Morgan could play shortstop...is if they moved 1st base about 100 feet closer to shortstop. His arm makes the arms of Jason Bay and Freddy Sanchez look like rifles.

Baywatch!

THERE you are, Maahi Ve! Was beginning to worry 'bout you.

"I feel like in a small way, I can relate a little to DK's two-mile walk from the lobby to the meeting room..."

Good one! Maybe we can get that published in G-Man's upcoming book. Actually, I know exactly the walk DK is talking about. Like any good Vegas casino, to get from Point A to Point B in the Bellagio, they design the place to make you pass through either: A) all the shops and boutiques, or B) the casino proper.  It's all about separating the patrons from their money. They don't call the city Lost Wages for nothing!

Thunder - I think they're working on a rule change right now, as we speak, at the Winter Meetings, on moving first base 100 feet closer, in keeping with the Americans Who Are Lefthanders Act.

JL -

>>Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, rises to your level when it comes to the one-line zingers.<<

Most humble thanks to you. Little zingers like that are my passion. Not everyone appreciates them, though. Go talk to my GF.

PoH -

It's nice to see you here today, too. I enjoyed seeing your photos from G3B. Sorry I could not be there. Something I would really enjoy is meeting you in person. Srsly. Not that I am angling for a BSFK or anything. ;-)

I'm LOL at Nyjer saying he only overslid the bag once. Yeah, maybe once per At Bat. I was thinking, back when DK posted that pic of him and his dad in SF, that if he ran for the cable car like he does from first to second, he'd have been run over by one of them by now.

@JL--<Don't want to jinx it by saying too much, but let's just say I'm getting a good feeling.>>

What that they will draft a real QB next year?

If you look at the shortstops in the league there are slick fielders, and big hitters but rarely a combination of both.

Jack has long been an above average fielder who hits better than the majority of the fielding shortstops. How many times have I read columns noting how few of our PBC players would start on other teams? This is not the kind of player we need to be moving.

By my recollection the best times to move players are if they are established studs, or productive younger players without a history of being consistent - high value to the market though for a group of talent.

With this in mind - and I know I'll get killed on here for saying this. Doumit and McClouth are your most valuable trade pieces and they should be considered available. The price would be very high, but THAT is what we all want. Major talent infusion.

You'll never get back in a trade for Jack what he will bring to the club next year, and trading away good players for marginal prospects is not moving the club in the direction that NH and FC have proposed.

As most of the lifelong Pirate fans do, I'll continue to follow the team. However I am not renewing my season ticket package this year. I'll attend a few games and wait for the team to start showing a real commitment to winning - and by that, I mean when they start shelling out $ - so will I.

Poor JBrindger. I think he was only throwing the Nyjmo at short thing out there as a passing thought.

I like Nyjmo. After his last callup, he was our best hitter and run scorer. He actually did finally stop over-sliding 2nd (but then he did do that -as DK put it- "double-dare" move against Lance Berkman and got thrown out trying to score... Ah, well). Though if POH's maternal words of love to him were at last spring's Piratefest, as we all know, at THAT time he still had some oversliding to do on his horizon.

Anyway, run Nyjer out there in March and see if he can keep it up (the hitting; not the oversliding). If he can, we're not exactly bursting with offensive weapons yet that we can afford to waste him.

BK the Comedian,

"What that they will draft a real QB next year?"

As Curly would say, "Uh? Wiseguy, eh?"

@FJR....Question...if we trade McLouth and Doumit, where is the rest of our offense going to come from?  We also need to keep some of the good pieces that we have.  

FJR,

I started out beaming as a read your post... then I read on. Now I'm clutching my heart and wondering why my shirt is turning red and wet...

'Nuff said. Folks, it's been fun. But I better get busy with some other things.

See you all again tonight.

FJR,

I wonder how many other STH's decided not to renew.  Those who work in the ticket office are working hard with great incentives, but like you said the best incentive of all is something to look forward to on the field when you arrive at the ballpark.

We did renew our plan.

FJR1300B

Welcome to the assylum

Ryan and Nate are available…….according to Frank Coonelly ...nobody is untouchable. That being said though, the prices to pry those players away are very high indeed. That is as it should be, we have to build this team around someone, and it looks like these are the guys that have been chosen to anchor that core.

FJR1300B - Welcome.

Keep in mind that Doumit and McLouth are also fairly inexpensive to keep considering they are just in their first year of arbitration.

I don't know how the rest of you feel, but the thought of Jake Peavy donning a Cubs uniform makes me sick.  

Do you all think that he would waive his no trade and come to play for a  Pirates franchise that has actually won some World Championships(that is all I will say) instead of losers like the Cubs?  

@Cave <<Do you all think that he would waive his no trade and come to play for a  Pirates franchise that has actually won some World Championships(that is all I will say) instead of losers like the Cubs?  >>

While we’ve been bad because we were mismanaged for a decade and a half, the Cubs are truly jinxed………..I don’t think that any other team in any major sport has ever began a 2nd century trying to win their next championship.

The link keeps updating, but via Rosenthal, Pirates might be interested in Eckstein. Thoughts?

DMac,

"Question...if we trade McLouth and Doumit, where is the rest of our offense going to come from?  We also need to keep some of the good pieces that we have."

I think you waited too late to raise that question, my friendess.  You should have mentioned that before Bay and Nady went bye-bye.  What did we average——about 2.5 runs a game in the last 45?

@Groat...I don't think I had a chance to ask that question with Bay and Nady.  And that's sort of what I mean...Nate and Ryan are what we have left.  I don't think that we can lose them, unless it's a phenomenal deal.  

And as PoH pointed out, right now, they're inexpensive guys to keep around.  Bay and Nady weren't.  And our offense was towing the line, but the pitching was in dire straights, so we needed to do something to even that out.  

Yotum,

David Eckstein has a poor throwing arm, but he makes up for it with no range.  He's no longer a major leaguer.

He lost his starting spot with the Blue Jays last year when they were desperate for 2nd base/shortstop help, and he hit .219 in the last 2 months when he was traded to the Diamondbacks.

I like—no, love—his grit, but the rest of him is done.  I'd rather another team prove me wrong.

Re: McLouth and Doumit

Who among us would be surprised if Doumit gets hurt and McLouth comes back to earth this year?

I would trade McLouth for a top pitching in a second. Outfielders are the easiest position to replace (for most major league teams).

Since I'm going to watch 150-plus games this year anyhow, I'd rather watch a competent shortstop -- Jack Wilson -- instead of Cruz-Ler flop around in the infield.

Trade Jack at the deadline or when injuries arise around the league. Glad Matt Joyce and Jeff Larish are out of the picture.

DMac,

No one is untouchable, but actually I agree with you.  They are building blocks!

I am still not giving up on 2009.  When McCutch comes up June 2 after tearing the cover off the ball in April and May in Indy  .  .  .  and Duke, Snell, and Gorzellanny all pitch like their best years in the Majors, and Capps gets his heater back, and Nyger learns to run/slide 90 feet, not 95 feet  .  .  .  we are going to make a run at 2nd place this season!

However, Maholm and Nate and Ryan have to play in 2009 like 2008!!!  What time is church!?!

Wow! I think on a different thread we had a guy named 319 join up. And now, here we are with FJR1300B ... now that REALLY DOES sound like an inmate number.

"OK, FJR1300B, you can come out for some recreation now."

Just playing around, FJR! Welcome to the asylum ... and I can tell some of the others thinkl you REALLY ARE crazy, posing the prospect of shopping Doumit and McLouth! I dunno, I see your point ... be interesting what the real chess players (Huntington and Coonelly) do with that.

If the talk of no deal with the Tigers is true as we are getting the information, then the true bright star of Christmas here is that the Pirates did not unload Jack or probably will not for a cheap return.  If the Tigers are spending 1 M for the shortstop then we can figure they were not offering a whole lot more in value to us for Jack.

If this is all true then it should ease a lot of anxiety.  

@G2M2SG <<What time is church!?!>>

That'll take a lot of praying.....however, I'm very hopeful where the pitching staff is concerned. I think that at least a couple of those pitchers are going to return to form. We definitely can still break that streak next year if the pitching staff performs to their potential.

@Groat...I have faith that they'll be back in similar form to 2008, if not better.  They both worked their tailends off to get their starting spots and I can't see either of them slacking off enough to lose them.

Sorry if I took your tone wrong.  It's hard to "hear" on the blog.  :-)

I don't have a stat, course I don't use stats, but Jack hit in the 8th spot in the lineup, I wonder how many guys hit better than he did in that spot.

As I said in a previous thread, instead of trying to get rid of players, maby we ought to evaluate our own players a little better.

It is amazing how many times Jack has been on the block and not been traded.  I wonder if teams are approaching NH, or if he's using Jack as conversation starter for prospects he has an eye on -- gauging the market?  

@Groat, thanks for the info, i feel like Eckstein was playing in the WS just yesterday, but i haven't followed him much. Simply put his name out there b/c i saw it hadn't been brought up.

Re: trading Nate/Doumit: i think if we were to get solid pitching, i might consider, but i'd have to be floored; moreso for Doumit, as he's a S-hitting catcher with some pop, but both have good value going forward.

I am in mourning today the Greg Maddox retired.  I thought his presence on the Bucs could have helped even more than his arm!

However, I am not sad that Jack Wilson is still here.  With our pitching staff trying to get over the hump, training a tentative shortstop like Bixler would not be a step in the right direction.  Unless we have a top 10 in baseball fielding shortstop THIS YEAR, our pitchers will be retarded.

Let Bix age in Indy for a whole year, while Jack turns all those doubleplays our contact-throwing pitchers need.  

THE BUCS WILL BE FINE IN DOUBLE-OTT-9!

Good call, Hadar!!

@Groat - "THE BUCS WILL BE FINE IN DOUBLE-OTT-9!"

What a theme! I think you're onto something there ... Maybe a nice big poster with the Ott Twins on it, Ed and Ted Ott ... No? Ed didn't have a twin ... back to the drawing board, but I LOVE your theme.

I was using one for awhile, after the Alvy sigining -

"Kickin' Rear End in 2010!"

Coincidence or not...Cubs miss World Series...Tribune Company files for bankruptcy.

www.tribune.com/.../12082008.html

Yes, I realize that the Cubs themselves are not involved in the bankruptcy proceedings...but I'm sure that the $200 million the Cubs have thrown at free agents over the last few years hasn't helped their balance sheets any.

Yotum: <he's a S-hitting catcher>  I know what you meant.  I knew what you meant.  I think everyone understood your intent...  All I'm sayin' is, I took one look at "S-hitting catcher" and .. well... yeah.   Prolly almost got myself fired.

(P.S.  And don't let NuHos hear you "insult" catchers! *G*)

(All in good fun, my friend.  All in good fun.)

there's no way the pirates would get Delmon Young and his major attitude problem in exchange for Jack!  Look at the twins AA and AAA teams to gather a better idea of who they'd get.  

I think anybody on this team is tradeable, the problem is you wouldnt get anybody for them, including nate and ryan.  There are no current players on this team to build around, jason bay was that guy.   nate was a good compliment to him, ryan's gusty, i like that and think he learned alot for Doug M, but his defense still sucks.  

DK posted another thread for the day NH's Recap of Day 1

DMac and Leadoff,

Thanks for holding down the fort and not letting the mindless ones trade away what's left of our team. Like I've been saying and as Leadoff says, let's build upon what we have. Always playing the "let's trade THIS guy to see what prospects we can get!" game is nothing more than an instant gratification gambling addiction. And just like any other addiction, after the cheap thrill is gone, what's left is destroyed, emotionally damaged,  and dysfunctional.

We've had sixteen years of bare cupboards because we never held onto any of the good ones to build up our team There's a better way to build. Let Dennis Green tell ya:

www.youtube.com/watch

JL--

To further elaborate on an issue you and I agree on, one form of leadership is the one that I care about, it's leadership on the field, solid veterans settle down teams, very rarely does a team win without solid vets somewhere playing all the time.

Ok JL--You get to keep and avg. PBC SS or avg 2B in JW and Freddy or an avg. Steeler QB in Ben your choice CHOSE 1 and only 1.

BK,

When Sepulveda comes back next year, I'll allow you to trade Paul Ernster.

We see the Tigers settle for a punch and judy shadow of Jack, one reason and one reason only, our requested value to Jack.  If we are turning the page to better talent evaluation we will less and less make trades of no valiue.

This allows us to feel secure that our core players are not to be dealt cheaply.

@JL--I love the friendly sparring...Everyone must think we were serious...

Anyone here think that Littlefield woulda found a way to get rid of Jack, even if it meant paying his whole salary and getting Jimmy's nicorette in return?

@SirLox - "Jimmy's nicorette"

You still be talkin' Russian to me, SirLox ... what does Jimmy's nicorette mean?

Little had a way to trade Jack, I thought, to Detroit last year for Jair Jurrgens, but decided to get Morris instead for Rajai Davis...or am I wrong?

Bay: Jimmy leyland. Chain-smoked in the dugout, during games, until they made him go down the tunnel to do it.  If he hasn't quit, he oughta.

DMac:  Ummm... rats.  You have to let facts get in the way of a good rant, eh?  oh well...

And with that, i'm out for the night.  See you all later.

@SirL...*GRIN*  Sorry...I have an annoying habit of remembering details like that sometimes.    Have a good one!