Post-Gazette beat writers Dejan Kovacevic and Chuck Finder blog about the Pittsburgh Baseball Club.
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OK, I'll start. I'm not buying into the mantra that 2009 will be a losing season. As I sit here on October 1, Jack Wilson and Freddy Sanchez will be back. The latter will be healthy and have clear vision. The pitching will be better, primarily because it can't be worse, but beyond that I think Snell, Maholm and Duke will turn in solid seasons. Doumit and McClouth will improve over this year. Andy LaRoche will start realizing his potential. Adam... well, we know he'll have a great second half. Nyjer Morgan may be in the outfield, but all he's done throughout his career is perform well (except as a bench warmer in early 2008). A contender in 2009? No. But a given that they'll have another losing season? I'm not buying it.
OOOOH! Me first, me first!
Thought you might all enjoy this hapless mention, and not in regards to the Pirates:
msn.foxsports.com/.../pgStory
P13--Good afternoon. Have you put your scissors up until spring training?
JK--you beat me by mere slow server seconds! @*%&@)
It's weird posting a comment to a blank post... :)
@Pirata--So sorry you did not make it first--still, 2nd not bad and we all love ya!
A belated goodbye to Jeffy and Tony
www.youtube.com/watch
Do you think Al Davis sang this to Lane Kiffin yesterday???
It's not a cinch. What do you have, a crystal ball? I think there is EVERY possibility that the team of 2009 can win half their games or more. Last year at this time if you would have told me, a lifelong Bucs fan, that our pitching will definitely crumble with Gorz and Snell, leaving us with one starter to have confidence in, you would have been kidding. Who suspected that? So you can't say the team that isn't even official for 2009 - there's winter meetings and contracts to be offered - is a cinch to lose. That's just not a guarantee. Competition in the bullpen and solid defense can win 83 games or more. How miserable would it be to go through this winner expecting to lose 100 next year? Not every Bucs fan is ready to put their head in the oven.
Kid, nothing says it has to be a losing season, but there are more questions than normal with this team, if we go by what we already know, it points to a tough year next year, but there are a lot of moves that can be made over the winter to shore up some area's in question and your right a lot of these ballplayers should be better next year, they are still very young. Personally I still think the future is 2-4 years away from a contending team.
Posted this on the other thread but thought I put here too for those shifted before seeing it
Did a bit more research on Peavy--he does have a no-trade clause so he would have to get something to waive that. Buster Olney thinks Peavy would cost more than the 6 prospects the A's got for Dan Haren. It could be a suicide trade, which is why it should be explored. If he could be obtained for something like Andy LaRoach, Paulino, Duffy, Pearce and Snell that would be good trade but I thinks the Padres would want more. The Padres are in the driver's seat on this one because they have Peavy locked up for four more seasons at $59 million with an option for 2013 at 22 M.
DK, we miss YOU! "Discussion Thread?" I feel like I'm smoking a Vantage cigarette!
(Are we having server problems again ... related to a new thread? I hadn't had any problems today until we switched)
BK--no the scissors are always hanging right in my cubicle. Unfortunately, work goes on all year, so there they hang, next to a cardboard Guinness draft (from a 4 pack of Guinness cans...)
By the way, does anyone else go/want to go to the traditional gathering at the Forbes Field wall on Oct. 13? Dad & I will be there as always, beer, food (you have to bring your own of course), and listening to game 7 of 1960 World Series against Yanks. It's a good time. Holla if any of you are going so we can gather for a beer together!!
@JAL--before we received the Ants Marching order from General Pirata13 I posted Grabow +1 (Snell Duke Gorzo) + PTBN
Let's throw in Ronnie, and Duffy. That is 5. Unless pressed hold Pearce as the ace in the hole
@Baywatch
You like living in the tower my friend?
We should NOT trade Pearce. He wiill or should start in right filed next year. Has power too, not a great fielder, more of a 1st baseman. Works a little on the outside pitch and he will add alot of HR's for us. Duffy I would keep if you move Nate to a corner until Mccluch comes up. I agree with the rest of your choices.
But again we do have a regime that does not know what they are doing. They make one or two plays that we can agree on and say the rights things. But until the wallet opens and they quit stripping this club completely bare we will never go forward. A simple draft signing was screwed up. Traded our best outfielders, Not giving our best outfielder another chance(Duffy), Not playing some players to get experience (like Pearce) Maybe trading Jack and Freddie this offseason. Not re-signing Doug, Need to re-sign Michaels as a bench player. We will not have a thing left to play ball with.
But hey maybe the pitching will be better.
Overall I do not like the direction we are headed. I could see the trades for prospects but losing Jack and Freddie will drive me away.
The only time I see something this drastic is when teams strip the club then sell the team. This would be our best hope!
I was thinking of giving them a chance, but it's getting to be too much. Change can be good, change is needed, change for change sake is bad.
Just some very rambling thoughts.
JAL, sounds like Peavy is in the drivers seat, wonder if the no trade is for certain teams or for anybody.
What time is the gathering?
@BK--More likely something like this from Davis to Kiffen
And the Yankees could BUY the Padres another organization - and probably would - for Peavy.
Here's a funny thought ... maybe the PG cartoonist would have a field day with this ... Peavy on the mound in a Bucco uniform, but no position players because we had to give them all for Peavy.
Maybe NOT so funny? Maybe something Jose Lind's Pants could work with?
Sorry about that, Chief.
leadoff--He has full no-trade clause-he would have to approve any trade.
BillytheKid,
Speaking of PTBNL's, is there any truth the rumor that the Bucs are planning PTBNL Bobblehead Night for next season???
@Baywatch--or a little league team behind him--Soince peavy has no control on what they get for him, only on where he goes, it all depends on what the Padres want and how much they want to get him out of there. Apparently he has been criticizing their cutting payroll to around $50 million--that doesn't bode well for him wanting to go to a low budget team.
JAL, doesn't look like we could get him, but why would the Padres be shopping him around if he won't go, unless he has agreed to something with them.
Another link to PA no comments on the signing deal(s).
www.pittsburghlive.com/.../s_590938.html
2009 PBC blogger theme song
All,
.414 winning percentage in 2005, 2006, and 2008.
Who's with me that the address of PNC Park should be changed to .414 Federal Street?
I just tossed the Peavy idea out for discussion. I do not think the Pirates have a high likelihood of getting him. Someone like Edwin Jackson of Tampa is more realistic. Peavy is #1 starter, Jackson about a #3.
Time to go do some tasks in the outer world.
If it means they are able to save 15 cents. yes
It will be a headless bobble (body bobble) in a PBC unnumbered uni.
Billy Mays will then offer to sell your chioice of heads and numbers for 19.95 plus shipping and handling
BUT WAIT there's more order right now and Billy Mays will throw in a 2nd head and numbers for FREE That right for free plus S&H....
Jal,
Speaking of a $50M payroll which as you know is what the Bucs have announced for 2009, have you ever stopped to wonder what is the point of a $50M payroll?
I mean by now all PBC Bloggers know by now that I want to win and now, but honestly I don't see the point of a $50M payroll. - I really don't.
$50M given the way the team is constructed today guarantees one thing......more losing. So why bother spending that much?
IMO, the Bucs should either actually join MLB and spend in the neighborhood of $70M or more, or just go with 25 guys making at or around the league minimum of roughly $400K.
Think about it.....25 man roster x $400K = $10M.
If you know you are going to lose, and probably be in last place anyway, why spend $50M doing it? - When you can do it for $10M.
I really believe that good ole Bob's strategy makes zero sense and is a completely unnecessary waste of $40M.
In this day and age, a $10M payroll, and a $50M payroll both guarantee the exact same thing. Losing season # 17.
BillyKidd -
>>Do you think Al Davis sang this to Lane Kiffin << No, this is what he sang:
Pirata13 -
Thanks for the heads-up on the new thread. But, you are awfully competitive today, trying to be first and all. Hope you aren't thinking about taking the Rusty Scissors to Juniata Kid.
Hey, I have heard about the annual 10/13 gathering. I'm not coming to FF that day but I am curious. Does everyone come at the original game time and listen to the whole game or just around the time of the ninth inning. And do you all gather in the park or right at the home run plaque? (I have photos of the plaque and wall on my G-Man page here for those who have never been to the wall.) Anyway, I can't be there. But I will pull out my VHS tape of the 1960 WS and watch it that day so I'll be there with you in spirit, beer and all.
Plenty of Hope--I want to say Dad & I get there usually by noon, but I will check (just tried to call but no answer). They start playing the recording of the game at 1:05pm (which was gametime that day). It's pretty cool. If you come, bring a lawn chair, beverages or choice, snacks etc. We will likely be drinking Blueberry Ale from Dad's recent trip to Bar Harbor, Maine and eating South Side Pretzel Shop pretzels.
@Bay--He sang that to his season and the players that are looking to get outta Raider Land.
Baywatch takes the crown from UglyKen for hitting the Add button too many times (though so far I think UK still has more number wise...)
G-Man--most people are there before gametime, but people do stroll in throughout. We try to get there early to "get a good seat". And they play the entire game, ads and all. It's pretty sweet. We have a good time. It's another reason to eat and drink beer....
Yeah, the Peavy thing is not really going to happen. If you think about it, if we did trade for him and he had a decent year, it would likley be just one more guy we'd trade for prospects on 7/31. But, seriously, I wonder what it is that SD would be looking for - specific pieces for there team or just a salary dump because they figure they are 3+ years away from contending and could use the money elsewhere? I think any sort of trade where we get an established, veteran major leaguer is not going to happen. The only veterans we might add will be cheapo free agents.
On the other thread, there was a lot of discussion about next year's pitching staff, speculation about the starters and who might end up being sent down to AAA this time. One think not mentioned is who has options remaining. We were told Snell still had one this year that was not used. I don't know if it will still exist next year. Does Gorzo have another one left? I think it's a pretty safe bet that Opie will look at his newly acquired guys like Ohlie the goalie and Karstens and give them the starters nod if they perform even close to Duke, Gorzo or Snell in March.
JAL - "Time to go do some tasks in the outer world."
JAL, I get worried when I think of you, in the DC area, doing some "tasks in the outer world." Wasn't The Exorcist shot in the DC area? Not that I figure you for a Catholic exorcist (and BillyKidd, PLEASE don't post that gross Exorcist video again, EVER ... that really scared me ... you know how delicate my conscience is).
Or, JAL, maybe you're just out playing some Patriot Games.
NuttingHostage - On your $10 plan ... Don't go giving Nutting any ideas ... Honey. Get it, Nuttin' Honey? Anybody remember the old commercial? www.youtube.com/watch
SD needs offense. Peavy for McLouth, A Cutch, Snell, Walker.
Any takers?
Is anybody else sick of Alvarez's stock talking point:
"The only thing I ask is they judge me as the professional player I am now. On the field, I give it my all, judge me for what I am as a professional baseball player."
Translation: "You dumb rubes in Pittsburgh will forget how much I acted like a spoiled brat as soon as I hit my first home run."
How hard would it be to say: "I'm sorry I let things get out of hand. I made a deal and should have stuck by it."
I wonder if he realizes how much his reputation has been damaged?
Pirata-- Those Pretzel Shop pretzels are addictive. Unfortunately, work will keep me from being there on the 13th. Unless, I catch that flu that seems to surprisingly strike on certain Mondays. The best cure for that is a few beers, South Side pretzels, and a replay of the greatest game in baseball history.
@Bay Don't you have any Pizza's to deliver to sock drawers to sort? <Smile;)> You are on a roll today.
Mad Turk - totally want to agree with your take on Pearce. The guy needs to play. He was out-hitting Moss and Laroche from the time they all started getting regular ABs and he was the one who got sat down..didn't understand that.
Now when you described Dehydration Duffy as our "best outfielder" you did mean that purely from a defensive potential criteria right? Not from a stable mental health, ability to stay hydrated, stay healthy, not quit on your organization type criteria I'm assuming?
My starting OF next year would be: McAll-star in CF, Pearce in RF and bat-to-be-determined (that will be signed in offseason) playing LF platoon with Morgan. We all know that 3rd spot is on reserve for Mccutchen whenever he's ready to come up and take it.
Hostage: .414 would be good but don't think the post office allows decimals in addresses. Why not '16' federal this year, then when they clinch number 17 next year, move it up to that..just keep moving down - they've got the whole block don't they?
@pirata13 - "Baywatch takes the crown from UglyKen for hitting the Add button too many times (though so far I think UK still has more number wise...)
Yeah ... I sorta freaked ... was having a nice server day, then BAM, seemed like it revolted against everyone moving to the new thread.
BillyKidd - I'm totally in shock over the Na Na Hey Hey Goodbye video ... All these years I thought the lead singer was Cher on loan? I mean at least long brunette Cher-type hair ... It's a dude singing m favorite skating rink song ... what's up with that?
All - I know I'm probably opening another can of non-baseball worms here, but could I venture to say that the only team Steelers fans hate on more than the Cowboys are the Raiders?
For those interested in owning the entire broadcast of the 1960 WS Game 7 go here:
www.archive.org/.../5ClassicBaseballGames
the broadcast which features the Gunner can be downloaded for free.
I think it's time we get over Pedrogate and let the guy prove his worth on the field. That will really give us something to talk about.
@NuttingHostage
If they trade or move Jack and Freddy then they may well go ahead and drop to a 10M payroll for there will not be a chance to improve at all. We know they will NOT add any good players, just the retreads like the last many many years.
Maybe they should just get it over with and trade Paul, Nate, and Doug as well. Now that!, they could say is a true re-building process.
Goat - right on about pedro. I just read that Q&A..more self-aggrandizing crap..more denial and move on stuff. Kinda reminds of mcgwire's "I'm not here to talk about the past" stand in front of congress. And the 'held up hand and indicated no wish to talk about it' I guess is easier than saying, "yeah I gave my word and then went back on it..so..who's got the $6.4 mil now...suckers!"
Well pedro I started judging you as a "professional" when your second act as a "professional" was to break your word and refuse to report and sign your deal...professional.
Hey Pirata13 - is Mike and Tony's Gyro shop still on Carson St at (14th or 15th - I forget which)? In the 70s it was a little closet on the corner and had the best gyros on earth. I'd be tempted to come back for FF day if I could get one!
P13-Where is the best place to park over there?
@Cave - "SD needs offense. Peavy for McLouth, A Cutch, Snell, Walker. Any takers?"
Consider me taken, Cave. One thing I can say that I learned this season. Pitching is more important than hitting. If we include McLouth in a trade, I would bet that they don't get but maybe a 987 person average attendance for games next year ... but with him and Maholm - and somebody in the Dorf, Gorzelanny, Duke, Dumatrait, Dan McCutchen neighborhood stepping up to take Snell's place ... I think we break .500 next year.
Disgruntled Goat - One of the thing I'm enjoying the most about this Blog is the way people talk all over the country ... mostly Pittsburgh, I guess.
What's a "rube?"
Baywatch,
I resent the Cowboys. - They get a lot of undeserved attention.
The Raiders don't bother me at all anymore.
I don't like the Patriots because they are cheaters.
I don't like the Ravens because they talk too much trash and no longer even have the ability to back it up.
@Bay-Any team from Ohio (including transplant Ravens)and the Pats.
@Disgruntled Goat
Check the link I posted for more of PA nonsense.
here it is again.
@Matt Alexander-DR
Yes speaking of defense.
Pedrogate? Are you all forgetting that when the news broke about the MLBPA taking the thing to arbitration, it turned out that the FO lied - and lied repeatedly - about the call time & the initial offer? Before you all call the kid names how honest were the people he was dealing with?
Looks to me like he knows the whole magilla was fishy and that both sides lied through their teeth. And, he's been told to keep his mouth FIRMLY shut about the whole deal - by Boras AND by the Bucs. If you had $6.3 mil riding on your silence, how many of you - be honest now - would have answered Dunlap's question?
Madturk,
I think the Pirates and some of us fans mis-use the term rebuilding.
IMo the term rebuilding refers to when a club trades away it's established players for promising young players all at once and allows them to play through growing pains for a year or two until they become competitive.
I don't know I've ever seen the Bucs do this. - Sure they trade away their stars, but all they have put on the field is a collection of inexpensive borderline prospects that never had the potential to become good when they mature.
Many MLB clubs such as the Twins, Brewers, Indians, A's, and Marlins have rebuilt over the past few years.
All I have seen the Bucs do is "re-profit" by going cheap with talent that never had the chance to be good.
Notice how, in answering one of Colin Dunlap's questions, Pedro stated something to the affect, "I look forward to being in Pittsburgh for awhile." *Awhile.* Translation for me was, "See you in my rear view mirror as soon as I become a FA, if not sooner." Sorry for the skepticism.
Bay, a rube is a hick, hayseed, simpleton, guy who just fell off the turnip truck - get the idea? That's not a Pittsburghism, by the way.
rube
Pronunciation: \rüb\
Function: noun
1 : an awkward unsophisticated person : rustic
2 : a naive or inexperienced person
Basically means "I'm way better than you"
Don't think its Pittsburghese.
An interesting sight to see all those Chisox fans clad in black last night. I know Mackowiak wasn't on the Chisox this year; I wonder, was he out of MLB altogether...
@Cisco Kid
Thanks for the Series Link.
Cave,
No offense but I think that trade would be insane. Sending 2 of the top 10 triple A prospects in baseball, an all start OF and a 'potential' top of the rotation for 1 all star starting pitcher? I know pitching is important but unless Peavy is going to play CF on his non-pitching days and bat .340 with 30 HRs , I think that trade would be crippling to the organization to put it mildly. you have to have depth to trade for a guy like Sabathia or Peavy and the buccos have the polar opposite of depth at this point.
Of course if you throw jack wilson into the trade too and convince the pads to take Duffy and Paulino as well, you could probably convince me!
@ Cisco Kid and Pirata
I have a question about that broadcast... I downloaded that a few years ago and listened to it and it seemed legit until the very end except they had Bob Prince announcing Maz's home run and saying we had them all the way. Prince did not announce it or even see it since he had already gone down to the lockerroom for interviews as it looked like they were going to win on Hal Smiths home run. So is the whole broadcast legit except for that last bit or what.
I totally agree with your definition of rebuilding.
Baywatch
Peavy, Maholm and we pay up for Sheets or Mussina.
Now we are talking.
Ceesco & Disgruntled Goat - Thanks for the rube definition.
by the way madturk..great avatar..greatest home run or for that matter any play in major league baseball in my opinion and it will never get its due cause it wasnt a Yankee or Red sox or dodger etc.
smokey, I have no idea about the broadcast recording. They may have had Gunner record that bit later for the MLB archives. Who knows after 50 years?
Matt
We need to make some dramatic moves this winter to improve this team. No one should be untouchable in the quest to do that. Getting a number one Cy Young starter who is signed through 2012 at a very reasonable price tag would be on every GM's wish list, including Opie's.
Pirates history says this will never happen, but that move more than any I have seen in the past 16 years would signal a real change in phiosophy and excite the fan base.
BK--parking is up in the air...on-street, though there may be a garage close by. Last year Dad & I got lucky and found a spot literally right there. Getting there a little early with a large cup of coffee can pay off.
UglyKen--I am addicted to not only pretzels and pepperoni rolls there but the egg & cheese pretzel sandwiches as well. Amazing...
Cisco--Yep, Mike & Tony's still on South Side, same spot. I want to say corner of 15th b/c Starbucks is the corner of 14th.
Cave - "Peavy, Maholm and we pay up for Sheets or Mussina."
Sorry, Cave, I've never been too impressed with Sheets, although I must admit, a glance at his ERA the past four years looks pretty impressive ... seems to get hurt a lot, though.
And as for Mussina ... one of these days his old age is going to catch up to him ... remember Burnitz hit 24 home runs and had 87 RBIs the year before the Pirates picked him up. Unless it's Phil Niekro, I say stay away from the old timers.
smokey-- it will never get its due because the Yankees were on the short end of that series. They keep it from getting it's due.
@Cisco I agree that Pedro should not have answered the question about timing. I agree that both sides have dirty hands. My point is that Pedro could really help his reputation with a little contrition. I'm pretty sure he has a P/R guy who could come up with an apology that doesn't admit anything. The way he did answer questions, to me, was a little smarmy.
smarmy
Pronunciation: \smär-mē\
Function: adjective
1 : revealing or marked by a smug, ingratiating, or false earnestness
BadgerBuc--Mac was on the Nats at the beginning of the year and was then released; batted .132 (ouch).
my guess is that every player in major league baseball that has a no trade clause in his contract has Pittsburgh as one of the teams they wont go to.
Smokey et al, can we get over the Great Pittsburgh Inferiority Complex? Of course WE think Maz' homer is the greatest moment ever in baseball history. But there's no conspiracy against it or us, really. It happened 50 years ago! An awful lot of the people who were alive in 1960 are dirtnapping now. In a country and culture where anything that happened last week is ancient history, to have other, more recent moments to be more resident in the collective awareness is no surprise.
The only one from the "old days" still floating around is the "shot heard round the world" but that one, for whatever reason, has gotten stuck in peoples' heads like a broken record (assuming any of them remember what a record was). But here's some others that don't crack the top 10 anymore - Babe Ruth pointing where his homer was going to go; Joe Nuxhall debut at age 15; the midget who batted for the St. Louis Browns; Johnny Vandermeer (I think) tossing two no hitters in a row; Bob Gibson's 1.12 ERA; Denny McClain winning 31; Don Newcombe's WS perfect game; we could even throw in goofy stuff like Dock Ellis' LSD nono; Morganna the Kissing Bandit; Bill Buckner; the great Phillies choke of '64; that guy (was it Al Hrabowsky?) who used to toss a pitch about about 30 ft into the air because guys would get so mad they'd swing at his lob and strike out on it - until someone jacked it a mile on him; the point being that one man's greatest isn't necessarily the shrine that everybody else worships at, but that doesn't mean those nasty Coast people have conspired to dump on our city. Just somebody's opinion is all it is! Put any ten monkeys in a room and they'll pick 10 different "greatests". Ah gar-an-tee it.
@Baywatch--Thanks for the thoughts but I survived a trip to the outer world. Yes, The Exorcist was shot here--there are some creepy stairs coming down from Georgetown near the Key Bridge that were in it. Not the scariest place in DC though. Several places where ghosts are supposed to walk around, including the US Capitol.
@Smokey--I can see why you think that but past trades say it ain't so. Maybe after a player gets here they think, why didn't I give up a few thousand dollars to get a no-trade clause to the Pirates :)
@Cisco--Twas Don Larsen who threw the perfect game in the Series against the Dodgers not Newcombe who pitched for the Dodgers--but not that game--Sal Maglie pitched it for the Dodgers.
Matt Alexander -
>>when they clinch number 17 next year, move [the address] up to that..just keep moving down - they've got the whole block don't they?<<
If NuttingHostage is right, they could have to cross the Clemente bridge, move through the Triangle, over the Smithfield Street Bridge, through the Wabash Tunnel and all the way to Little Washington before we have a winning season.
Thanks, JAL - gotten a little dim on that one. Point being re 1960, try to imagine how many people who were around then aren't around now, and conversely, how many who ARE around now who weren't around then. The latter don't really care about anything that happened in 1960, and the former don't care about anything at all!
Concerning your statement:
"It happened 50 years ago! An awful lot of the people who were alive in 1960 are dirtnapping now."
Careful now young one, I am still here and so are a few others.
I may not rememebr it live, but I remember it well for it is part of Pittsburgh.
Someone may have gotten this up, sooner, but it went on the PG website at 3:15 that Lanny is RETIRING from the PBC broadcast booth! It says that he's broadcast Pirate games even longer than Bob Prince. (It's hard to imagine that I'M THAT OLD!)
I can understand why after 50 years the 60 series isn't getting it's due now, but it NEVER received it's due. Being that it was a walk off HR to win what at the time was the greatrest prize in all of sports, it should have been considered as one of (if not the greatest) upsets of all time. The New York media which tend to have the greatest say on which order these types of events get ranked has kept it down below the many accomplishments of there own teams (like Joe Willy and the Jets when Football was still second to baseball). They just couldn't stand to have any other pesky little city steal any of their thunder. IMO ;-)
@Cisco--We all get dim at times--As Mad says though--there are many of us who were around in 1960--including many of the players--including Ralph Terry who threw the pitch, Maz who hit the homer, and Yogi who watched it sail over the wall..
Geowes--thanks for the scoop on Lanny. Wow, wonder who they will get to replace him...thoughts anyone? I vote Manny!
sorry to stir up trouble... I just think it is one of a kind and there are a few other one of a kinds like Don Larsens perfect game in a world series and Van Der meers back to back no hitters but this one Won the world series in a seventh game and to me that is the ultimate and I would say the same if another player on a different team had done it instead of a Pirate... I'm off to work everyone have a great night
Goodnight, Smoke! I'm right behind you, here in just a little bit.
Cisco wrote "that guy (was it Al Hrabowsky?) who used to toss a pitch about about 30 ft into the air because guys would get so mad they'd swing at his lob and strike out on it - until someone jacked it a mile on him"
Cisco -- The lob pitch -- known as the eephus pitch -- was actually invented by one of our own -- Rip Sewell who pitched for the Pirates in the early '30's.
Al Hrabosky -- The Mad Hungarian -- was noted for his "angry act", stomping around the mound, pounding the ball into his glove, glaring at the batter.
Should we all go over to the other thread?
===========================================
Isn't it funny how - lesser of evils - I wanted the Brewers in the playoffs instead of the Mets, but now I'm pulling for the Phillies BIG TIME over the Brewers!
Phillies ahead 3-0, bottom of the 4th.
Something that hasn't been mentioned in all the PA stuff is that Dunlap should get some kudos for going down there and asking the tough questions face to face.
I thought his coverage the last couple of days in Pirate City was very good, espcially because PA talked to him and CD didn't write fluffy about PA.
+1 for Dunlap being tough but fair.
@Bay--have good night in the wars
Reading about the Mad Hungarian got me to thinking about other quirky players.One of the strangest in my mind was Mark "the Bird" Fiddrych.The guy used to landscape the mound.Build up a dirt pile and spread it out so smooth.Wasn't it Lenny Dykstra that used to brush his teeth between innings?Not sure on that one?Then there was the "Human Rain Delay, Mike Hargrove.Since this is a discussion how about some more.Makes me want to get out more old LPs.Maybe Andy Pratt doing Avenging Annie.Any more quirky players?
Hadar & Cisco,
You may also be referring to Adam and Andy's dad....
Dave LaRoche, father of Buccos Adam and Andy was famous for throwing his own variant of the eephus pitch, which he called 'La Lob'.
That is actually a "recreation" of the game that the Gunner did, later. HE WAS DOING THE TV WITH Mel Allen that day. (I know, because I had a cold and our family doctor TOLD MY MOTHER I HAD TO STAY HOME FROM SCHOOL! I watched the WHOLE THING, though she THREATENED to turn it off, when my jumping on the couch set off my coughing.)
My understanding is it was done the same way AWAY games were done when Prince started. The announcers were in a studio and got the game information from "Western Union" (maybe like what we get on "Gameday" when we don't get a broadcast). The announcers then "did their thing."
Have a great time "at the wall." It was a GREAT GAME!
@ madturk:
Dude, I like a lot of what you say, but you've GOT to stop drinking the Duffy Kool-aid.
@NutHostage:
I get it. Nutting is cheap, cheap, we need to sell the team or to spend seven gajillion dollars....can you think of some ~reasonable~ alternative, other than the song you've been (and continue to sing ad infinitum) singing?
@Cisco
1960 wasn't that long ago, and some of us AREN'T dirtnapping.
@cocktailsfor2:
Lighten up. At least the Brew Crew is losing.
@pirata:
Oh, to join yinz on that day...t'would be a little slice of heaven.
Maz--lots of quirky players--one of the earliest was Rube Waddell who pitched from 1897 to 1910--even spent a couple seasons with the Pirates. he was good too-from 1902 to 1908 won 24, 21, 25, 27, 15, 19, 19. He loved fire engines and would leave in the middle of a game to follow one if it went past the field.
Sam Jones always chewed on toothpick when pitching, hence the nickname Toothpick Sam Jones.
Steve Hamilton threw it, called it the Folly Floater. Even more recently Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez threw one a few times.
I'm not buying into the automatic losing season for 2009 either. I think a lot of good things will carry over and more good things will hapen.
I agree with madturk...no surprise...about Duffy and Morgan. I'm not saying Duffy gets handed the job because that's not right -- he has to earn his spot like everyone else. But I do believe that he should get a chance to compete with the others. He's had problems with injuries, I can't deny that, but given the way this management is handing out homework, as it were, that may change for him. As for his leaving in 2006, it seems to me that the team forgave him, as did his teammates, why can't we? If I recall, he came back and had an awesome end of 2006, offensively and defensively.
Sorry...I'll get off my Duffy soapbox now.
As for Alvarez, I haven't had a chance to listen to the audio yet, but the typed Q & A leaves me a little "eh". He took a lot of stock answers, or didn't answer at all. I know that's all spin, but still. I guess he'll have to convince with his performance, on and off the field from here on out.
Ex bucco Wilbur Wood wasn't really quirky,but more amazing.Imagine a pitcher putting in 350 innings a year for several years.While using a knuckler to drive batters crazy.The last pitcher to win at least 20 games and also lose 20 in ONE season.He was with the PBC only 2 years,but he was very memorable.At least to me!
Then there's always Casey Stengle when he was with the Superbas (Supoibas) catching a bird in the dugout and putting it under his hat, which he then he doffed to the crowd when he went to the plate and of course away flew the bird.