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Post-Gazette beat writers Dejan Kovacevic and Chuck Finder blog about the Pittsburgh Baseball Club.

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A few final orders of business

By Dejan Kovacevic | 2:41 a.m. Tuesday

Above is a photo I snapped on PNC Park's closing day last week, hours after the mound and plate were covered for the winter. And that pretty much sums up my feelings today.

So, with the 122nd season in the books, the fourth on my end, a couple orders of business ...

The blog will remain active and moderated and, as per a few readers' suggestions, I will put up some advance-timed daily -- and blank -- posts so that there is a place to comment and that threads do not get too bulky. Not really sure what will happen this offseason beyond the next couple of weeks, but the bosses will adjust accordingly.

As for me, I am "done, done, done," as the daughter put it the other day. Done for the season. I will return, as in the past, the Sunday before the Winter Meetings, in Las Vegas the first week of December.

But, before I power down the laptop and PDA, un-bag the comics and re-string the guitar, before I begin bracing for the best book ever to become a film, before I head to the Strip to sniff the beans from the big roasters at La Prima, before I resume trying to expunge my fourth consecutive Worst Father of the Year award with long walks, street hockey lessons and purchasing of wooden trains, I offer the customary thanks ...

TO the family, for tolerating this.

TO the entire new front office of your club, from Bob Nutting to Frank Coonelly to Neal Huntington, for taking every call, answering every question. When I contacted Coonelly from San Francisco to comment on loss No. 82, he emailed back a 300-word essay. I used two sentences. When I asked Huntington about Byung-Hyun Kim or players being out of shape or Andy LaRoche being exempt from the "no-scholarship" policy, he came back with an answer that was more blunt, more forthright than the question itself. That is going to raise eyebrows at times when some of these guys mis-speak, but ask yourself if you prefer that to what you heard or read previously.

TO John Russell, who, the morning after I took my third jab in a week for an inexplicable bunt he ordered Freddy Sanchez to try, saw me in a hallway, smiled, winked and said, "Jeez, still killing me on that bunt." Told me a lot about him. You did not see it, and neither did I, but the players will attest that he held a rigid hand through a season which, given the horrific pitching, would have driven someone else off a cliff.

TO Gary Varsho, for refusing to speak or even make eye contact with anyone after a loss. Nice to see losses upsetting people.

TO Don Long and the rest of the coaches, who undoubtedly have no idea what to do with themselves today. They are the coal miners of baseball.

TO Jeff Andrews and Lou Frazier, good people and good coaches who will rebound.

TO Kyle Stark, for answering emails from the stands in Lynchburg.

TO Rene Gayo, for having one of those satellite phones that works from a village in Panama.

TO Pittsburgh's shortstop of choice ...

TO Nate McLouth, Paul Maholm and Ryan Doumit, for providing the occasional chance to write something positive and for not at all blinking when reading stuff in the spring about how this should be a breakout season for each.

TO Doumit, specifically, for shouting out my name from across the clubhouse to summon me because he wanted something in the paper. He got his wish, in large, bold letters.

TO traveling secretary Greg Johnson, for getting me out of Houston before Ike hit.

TO Jason Bay, Xavier Nady, Jose Bautista, Damaso Marte and other faces here one day, gone the next. When will Pittsburgh again see a player the caliber of Bay?

TO Sanchez, for insisting this past week that I list him as a "disappointment" in my season-ending report. His batting average ranked third in the National League after the All-Star break.

TO Sean Burnett, for providing the best human story of the year. After shoulder and elbow surgeries on the same arm, this kid should not have been able to pick up a grapefruit, much less claw his way back to the majors.

TO Adam LaRoche, for thoughtfulness, honesty and no small amount of levity on every subject.

TO Jeff Karstens, for the season's truly best moment.

TO Matt Capps, John Grabow and Tyler Yates, for talking in good times and bad, not always easy in late relief.

TO Ian Snell, Tom Gorzelanny, Zach Duke and way back to Matt Morris, for making this my first season on the beat when not a single starter declined to speak to the media, going 162 for 162.

TO John Van Benschoten, for the reminder of how truly difficult it is just to reach the majors and how extraordinarily frustrating it is for those so close yet seemingly so far. He is heading to Mexico now to keep trying.

TO Jim Trdinich and Dan Hart, one of the most experienced -- and best -- media-relations duos in the game.

TO the many writer colleagues locally and from other outlets, particularly this year to Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, who finally gets to punch some keys in October.

TO Mary, the elevator operator at Busch Stadium who never forgets a face and is always happy to see you. When spending so much time away from home, such people become so valuable in terms of grounding.

TO the Australian band Pendulum, for recording this insane song called "Propane Nightmares" that dominated the iPod play on the road.

TO my supervisor, Donna Eyring, for ordering me to find out if this whole Alvarez thing was really just about Coonelly vs. Scott Boras. I was wrong. She was right.

TO Boras and other agents, always making sure their players' interests are expressed. These guys get vilified, often with cause, but they work almost as hard as those coaches.

TO Colin Dunlap, for giving you the closest look at the kid, first with his visit to New York and all this week with his baby steps in Bradenton.

TO Jerry Micco, Paul Meyer, our sports desk and especially to our Web people -- Liz Gray, Willa Kindle, Matt Kennedy, Dan Gigler, Jim White, Mike Elek and Pete Zapadka -- for everything you see on this site.

TO you, the readers, the pitchfork-wielding, insane, hapless-in-your-own-way special breed that is wholly responsible for elevating this silly blog that Paul and I did into something that forced our management, after just two months, to start rethinking how we do everything online. (Including these blasted servers!) Your relentless criticism, compliments and, above all, the round-the-clock corrections and suggestions made the job, in a strange way, easier than ever.

And, finally, a special expression of gratitude TO Doug Mientkiewicz, for stubbornly, steadfastly refusing to fit in with what it has meant to be a Pittsburgh Pirate these past 16 years. This illuminated much about the subject matter I cover.

Until Vegas ...


Posted Sep 30 2008, 02:41 AM by Dejan Kovacevic

Comments

Pgher in Leverkusen wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 4:22 AM

And a HUGE thanks to you, DK, for giving us this forum! Enjoy your well-deserved time off. Look forward to hearing from you again in December.

jersey joe wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 5:48 AM

man oh man  what did I miss out on when I fell asleep very early lat night.

I think frazier was let go more for what was not said more than anything else.

I think we move on there for we may never know with this one.

thanks to the staff.

Billy, Have not heard from you hope all is well on the recovery front and I have a special request?  I would like to be of your employ to cover the home opener next year if that qualifies me for the employee game.

48jj wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 6:54 AM

Thanks to you DK for the best coverage of this team!

Question to anyone who might be able to answer - should Jeff Andrews' age be listed as 49 rather than 39? If he's been a pitching coach for 22 years as the article states, then he must be older than 39.

mgeorg wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 7:00 AM

Thank YOU, Dejan, you're the best at what you do.

Trite Trophy Winner wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 7:07 AM

To you, Dejan.  You did a great job covering the PBC all season on all the game stuff; but the Alvarez-Boras-Front Office coverage was amazing.

To Dirty Doug:  You'd better believe this city has embraced you. We want you back. If we can spend $$$ on Jeromy Burnitz, et al. - we can find the money to have you.  This team needs you.

To my 10 year old son: I'm sorry about Jason Bay.  I know he was your favorite-ist player for 5 years.  Yes, I know you bought the poster with your own money - that he signed for you at Gloves for Kids. . I know he stopped to talk to you at Fan Fest because your were wearing his All-Star jersey. I'm not sure what you want to do with the Jason Bay mural on your bedroom wall (I'm not kidding), but I believe you when you tell me you don't want to go to any more Pirates games - because they're boring and Jason Bay's not there.  

To Neil Huntington: See above.  

BucsFan54 wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 7:42 AM

Dejan, you were absolutley correct is saying that it takes a special breed of fan to follow and care for this team as deeply as so many people  on this blog clearly do; but it is even more correct to say that you are a special breed of sportswriter for enabling us to follow this team so closely.

Thanks for all you've done and had to put up with this season.

phillyjake wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 8:12 AM

Sitting here enjoying a cup of French Roast from LaPrima.  

Enjoy the off season!

@Trite:  My 7yr Old Little Girl is now a Red Sox Fan.   I understand how your son feels.

Enjoy the Playoffs and the off season, all!

JAL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 8:29 AM

Dejan, wonderful closing.

May your time off be great.

May your daughter enjoy spending time with you as much as we have enjoyed your reporting.

May the Watchmen be half as good a movie as the graphic comic (it was actually a monthly comic first) was.  After all, they have had 20 years to perfect it.

May the Pirates give more positives to write about over the winter and next season.

May you and your family be safe and sound.

Thank you for everything.

KMRempel22 wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 9:18 AM

TO:

Dejan Kovacevic:  Chief Cook (sorry, Ron) and Blogger-Watcher.

Enjoy your time off.  You sure deserve it!

Cocktailsfor2 wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 9:29 AM

DK:

Thanks for all your hard work keeping us apprised on our Buccos.

But methinks you need to listen to a little more XTC.

Cheers,

cocktailsfor2

diehard wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 9:34 AM

Dejan - Enjoy the kid time.  I'm fortunate enough to be home with mine during the day.  (avatar - That's a 3-year old girl with a strong "Aaargh Matey!")  Dad time is definitely deserved.  I would say the same for the players with kids/spouses as well.

Thanks also for the reminder of what we don't see - like Russell's control onf the clubhouse and Gary Varsho's intensity post-loss (Has he still got any of his old Oakley's?), players - especially the pitchers - being willing to talk, even after the bad outings (Morris was always remarkably up front it seemed, in spite of his struggles).  

Throw that in with with Freddy's insistence on being coonsidered a dissappointment - I think that reflects on the accountability abd culture change that they say they are trying to create.  It gives me hope.  And I hope also that it has rubbed off on players like Andy LaRoche.  

Andy - Take these winter workouts and meetings with Don Long seriously.  Get in shape and show us what you're made of.  No one is expecting  you ti be an All Star (though it would be nice), but we do expect all out effort - which in turn will gain you a little respect from Pittsburgh fans.

Cave Bonifield wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 9:40 AM

cocktails

XTC

Weird.  I just took English Settlement off the turntable.

AlexandreGiesbrecht wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 9:58 AM

I already offered my thanks, but it is never too much thanking for this wonderful blog. I've been a reader of both Penguins and Pirates Q&A for almost a decade, and I couldn't possibly imagine back then that it could become even more fun. Well, it could. It has. And, of course, my much more participative counterparts add to it. I mean that.

AlexandreGiesbrecht wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:04 AM

I was reading the paper this morning, and I found out Pendulum played here in São Paulo just last Saturday. Too bad I hadn't heard of them before, so I could have... well, I wouldn't be able to go anyway. :)

Cave Bonifield wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:11 AM

JAL

Are you on the phione in your avatar?  If not, what are you doing?

Cave Bonifield wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:17 AM

JAL

I forgot to add, it is either you or a striking resemblence to agent 86.

uglyken wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:32 AM

Thanks Dejan, you and this blog made this the most interesting of all the loosing seasons. It wasn't the season that I was hoping for, but you & this blog kept my attention on the Bucs to the end (even when it was obvious months ago how this seaeon was likely to end).

Thanks to all the participants of this blog, you are all responsible for my being a much better informed fan.

Lets Go Bucs!!!

madturk2008 wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:52 AM

Dejan thanks for all you have done and I look forward to more next year.

Thanks to the fellow bloggers for insights and laughs throughout the year to keep us somewhat sane.

For DK and fellow bloggers here's to you!

www.youtube.com/watch

JAYJAY2371 wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:55 AM

TO DK thanks for the tremendous work covering the Pirates. If the team could live up to its beat writer. It was much more fun to read the Pirates than to watch the Pirates on MLB.TV.

JAL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:59 AM

@Cave--That is Don Adams as Agent 86 on multiple phones to reflect the PA deal--phones here there and everywhere.

Pirate in Montana wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 11:29 AM

Thanks to you, Dejan.  I trully believe you are one of the main reasons why I still follow the Pirates and don't go to "greener pastures" looking for good, respectable baseball.  Please keep up the good work.

Also, thanks to the really nice bloggersin this blog.  It's really nice to read most of the posts, and every once in a while write a comment.

One more thanks, and then a suggestion for the group.

Thanks to the PG for this blog and for all the chat opportunities including baseball and football.

_____________________________

I have a suggestion for the group.  Maybe we could do a "best of" some of the things in this blog, and/or the Pirates.

As an example:

Best Avatars - In my opinion the top three are:

1- Cave Bonifield's Nittro;

2- A tie for second for both of Pirata13's avatars; and

3- Hostage's Bob Nutting's photo.  That photo completely catches what I feel about the Pirates owner, well not all, but I can't say the rest here...[smile]

Other examples may include, but are not limited to:

Most positive/optimist blogger;

Least optimistic blogger;

Friendliest blogger, not including Dejan...;

Etc.

If many people participate, and offer ideas, I won't mind counting the votes, including "hanging chads."

Baywatch wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 11:32 AM

Good morning, All!

I'm 75 now ... It's taken that long for me to log on after waging war with the server ... Did we have a winning season yet?

@DK - From your 2009 outlook story: You said "Mientkiewicz, a fiery competitor who tells it like it is in all situations, seemed a poor match for the post-trade Pirates ..."

I'm just curious as to why you felt like he was a poor match for the post-trade team ...

Anybody know BillyKidd's whereabouts ... Hope he hasn't had another relapse.

kreppsie wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 11:34 AM

Thank you DK.  Thank you to everyone else that helps make this blog possible.  I am like a lot of people, where we dont post often but are loyal everyday readers and I know I appreciate all the hard work done here.  Thank you again.

Scoops42 wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 11:36 AM

I was reading that piece, anxiously waiting to see what would be written to Dougie M. and it almost brought tears to my eyes to see him have his own little part at hte end.  I truly hope that management realizes his intangible worth to this team, as well as what he bring to it on the field.  

Doug - I thank you for embracing and inspriing this city and being a first class Pittsburgh Pirate.  The same goes for Jack.  I screamed as loud as I could for both of you at last Sunday's finale.

DK - Thank you for your time and effort in this blog and in all your coverage this season.  From the pictures from other cities, to the great things about Pittsburgh, you make my work days go by a little quicker.

Chicken on the Hill with Will wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 11:37 AM

DK, many thanks for creating a virtual forum in which PBC fans can connect. As an out-of-market fan, I do not get many opportunities to discuss my favorite team, other than when I speak with my father on the phone. This forum has filled that void to the point that my cup now runneth over.

vtjeffz wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 11:40 AM

Thank you DK.

Cave Bonifield wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 11:57 AM

Pirate/Montana

I have been working on something for a few days now.  All stay tuned.

As for best avatar, I would give the nod to Nutting Hostage by a hair over BK's Mr Magoo,  in the creative category.  The cutest avatar would have to go to Nitro or Pirata's foot.  

NuttingHostage wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 11:58 AM

To Dejan: Thanks for your hard work and excellent coverage. - Enjoy your down time.

To Nate McLouth & Ryan Doumit: Keep working hard during the off season and come back ready in the spring to continue your promising careers. I appreciate the great work you put into this season and congratulate you both on an excellent season.

To Bob Nutting: You disgust me you vile vermin.

To Kevin Colbert: I would have preferred Gary Russell over Najeh Davenport.

Oops, wrong blog. - My bad.

sarcastic sword wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 12:03 PM

While I would love to have Dirty Doug back, do you really think he wants to come back?  This guy is so competitve - I would be shocked if he doesnt sign with a team that will contend..............And I will become a fan of that team......The PBC is better off for having him this season - hopefully Doumit, Maholm, and McClouth learned well at the feet of the master and become clubhouse leaders like this team has missed for years...

NuttingHostage wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 12:13 PM

Thank you to Cave and Matt the Skat for your compliments on the avatar.

And to think there are some on this blog who wish I would take my blogging elsewhere.

;-)

Rich wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 12:19 PM

Dejan,

Great work this year. Relax and rejuvinate because if this season was tough, next year is looking like armageddon.

To Jack Wilson, thanks for the hard work and smiles...Is it possible that we can make some type of a thread like we did for Mient. when his wife went ill to send to HappyJack.

Go Pens,

Rich.

Cave Bonifield wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 12:39 PM

Here are some awards that you will find buried way in the back of the Pirates Media Guide for 2009:

Baywatch "Pops" Award--  To Jack Wilson as the most tenured Pirate.

BillyKidd "Magoo" Award-- To Opie for not seeing what he had right in front of him.

Alexandre "International" Award-- To John Russell for speaking a language that few of us could ever understand.

Pirata "On Your Toes" Award-- To Don Long after his handshake  with a launched missle.

Madturk "Fall on Your Sword" Award-- To Jeff Andrews for admitting he tried to help JVB.

Cocktailsfor2 "Make That A Double" Award --  To Nate McLouth, for hitting so many.

JerseyJoe "Faceless" Award--  To Brian Bullington for never making it onto the field.

Diehard "Daddy's Little Girl " Award---  To Tyler Yates on the birth of his daughter.

JAL "Sorry About That Chief" Award---  To All the starters not named Maholm for digging a first inning trench so deep

that it  could be used along the US border with Mexico.

JHadar "Sunset" Award--- To Jason Bay and Xavier Nady as they rode off into it in late July.

NuttingHostage "Dollar Store" Award-  To Bob Nutting who should try shopping at Tiffanys at least once.

JLPants "Steal Short" Award--- To Nyjmo and Raggedy Andy LaRoche.  For one who kept on running and one who never started running.

GMan "Red Vest" Award--  To all my fellow inmates who realized that straightjackets look better in red.

RonD "Jump Off A Bridge" Award-- To Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen.  Both who went from World Series Champion to 16 straight losing seasons.  

CaveBonifield "Nitro" Award---  I'll let the inmates fill in the blank.  

NuttingHostage wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 12:40 PM

All PBC Bloggers:

Who would you prefer as the Bucs next pitching coach:

A) Leo Mazzone

B) Rick Peterson

C) Joe Kerrigan

C) Bob Walk

D) Ray Miller

E) Matt Morris

E) Other - please specify

F) Don't care / Doesn't Matter

NuttingHostage wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 12:52 PM

All,

I'll start:

A) Leo Mazzone

B) Rick Peterson - I

C) Joe Kerrigan

C) Bob Walk

D) Ray Miller

E) Matt Morris

E) Other - please specify

F) Don't care / Doesn't Matter

Baywatch wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 12:59 PM

DK - I was also a little curious that, in your pitching coach candidate story ... no mention of Leo Mazzone. Did you ask Huntington about the possibility of him?

Not that I think he's the answer, but he seemed to be a name that a lot of bloggers threw out in the early going yesterday.

NuttingHostage wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 1:12 PM

Baywatch,

How many sons does Jim Tracy have?

Cave Bonifield wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 1:16 PM

Hostage

From your list, I would pick Mazzone..

Now that the Red Sox coach Farrell 's son is in our system, he may want to come this way.  

madturk2008 wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 1:26 PM

One more for goodbye.

www.youtube.com/watch

G-Man

Next year for the most stupid comments you may play this and get your Hap Cap back.

www.youtube.com/watch

We had a bad season.

www.youtube.com/watch

Pirate tribute.  Some still here and some gone.

www.youtube.com/watch

For the real old timers and history buffs.

www.youtube.com/watch

JHadar wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 1:28 PM

Hostage -- In case you left yesterday before you got to read my reply, my remarks yesterday were not an invitation to leave, merely an observation for you to reflect on.  Enjoy having you here.  

I may pick a few gnits now and then, but pretty much find your views consistent with mine, though often expressed much more strongly.  Thanks for making me stop and think now and again.

NuttingHostage wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 1:29 PM

Cave,

I'd prefer Farrell over all the guys on my list too but given that he rejected the Bucs offer to interview for the manager position last summer, it doesn't seem realistic that he would be interested in leaving a perennial contender in the Red Sox for a perennial cellar dweller in a lesser role after passing up an opportunity to interview for the manager job.

If Huntington actually floated that name, I'm thinking he might be drinking some of that funny water Kevin McClatchy talked about a few years ago.

Baywatch wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 1:30 PM

NuttingHostage - "How many sons does Jim Tracy have?"

Is this some kind of a trick question? :-)

Hold on, MY FRIEND, and I'll check with Mr. Google ... hold one ...

This from Wikipedia ... "His oldest son, Brian, played baseball at UC Santa Barbara, and was drafted in 2007 by the Pirates. He is currently a pitching coach for the State College Spikes after being released by the Pittsburgh Pirates. Son Chad plays in the minor leagues with the Texas Rangers organization. His youngest son, Mark, currently plays baseball for Duquesne University."

Don't know how up-to-date this is ... as in if Mark still plays for The Dukes. Guess it's possible he could have other non-baseball playing sons ... I just checked an old Pirates bio ... just the three boys.

NuttingHostage wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 1:34 PM

Baywatch,

Hmmm.

I see a coaching job with the Bucs in the near future for Chad and Mark. - Inexpensive and willing tyes men.

Cave Bonifield wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 1:40 PM

Hostage

I guess the bigger question is not who but how much?  Will they hire on the cheap per usual or will they spend some for a quality experienced guy?    I can't believe I'm saying this, but methinks the latter.

Pirata13 wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 1:50 PM

Hello, All.  

Thanks for the kudos on the pics...I keep trying to reload my original pirategirl pic, because she's awesome, but no luck.

Q: What has performed almost as bad as the Pirates this season?

A: THIS SERVER

Dejan,  Thanks for everything, this is awesome, you & Paul are awesome. This blog has only been an asset to already great reporting. Enjoy your time off, and make sure as your daughter gets older she understands you can love BOTH ballet (or any dance) AND baseball.  Though I may be one of very few dancers who take make-up ballet classes because I was at a ballgame on class night.  Enjoy, Dejan, and thanks again!

JAL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 1:51 PM

Pitching coach--well, I doubt he would take the job but how about Dr. Mike Marshall--Otherwise Nutting's list is fine except I would move Ray Miller ahead of Bob Walk

Baywatch wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 1:54 PM

Cave and All - I've noticed a lot of discussion about how the Pirates figure to continue on the cheap in the off-season, given their track record ...

Did everyone forget that they outspent just about everyone on the draft this year? Remember what a big deal that was, just before the trade deadline, how they were inking all these prospects and shekkin' out big bucks?

I know, I know ... 16 years of losing and livin' on the cheap ... we'll have to wait and see, BUT I think the money they dropped in the draft is something we should remember.

NuttingHostage - I like you, too, but if you ever do leave the avatar stays behind, OK?

JHadar wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 1:56 PM

Based on the very little I've read and the even less I know about pitching coaches, put me down for Kerrigan -- the biomechanics approach is needed, and since he's been with the Mets maybe we can hope he was at least possibly responsible for turning Ollie around.

NuttingHostage wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 1:57 PM

Cave,

Great point.....Who vs. How much.

I'd like to think the Bucs will go for the later as well, but IMO they have yet to walk that talk yet.

They say they want to build a championship quality club, but so far almost all their decisions have resulted in trades that took down payroll. - Torres, Bay, Nady, Marte.....Wilson probably soon.

What scared me a little lately was that I thought Gomez, Wilson, and Blondie the Cop Beater made up a horrible bench yet DK reported yesterdayt that the Bucs are not looking to bring back even a bad bench like that because they are focued on finding less expensive replacements.

Imagined that, replace a talent-deprived dysfunctional bench with one that is even less expensive.

Yipee!

NuttingHostage wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 1:57 PM

Cave,

Great point.....Who vs. How much.

I'd like to think the Bucs will go for the later as well, but IMO they have yet to walk that talk yet.

They say they want to build a championship quality club, but so far almost all their decisions have resulted in trades that took down payroll. - Torres, Bay, Nady, Marte.....Wilson probably soon.

What scared me a little lately was that I thought Gomez, Wilson, and Blondie the Cop Beater made up a horrible bench yet DK reported yesterdayt that the Bucs are not looking to bring back even a bad bench like that because they are focued on finding less expensive replacements.

Imagined that, replace a talent-deprived dysfunctional bench with one that is even less expensive.

Yipee!

JHadar wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 2:08 PM

Two NH quotes from the Q&A on the official site:

When do you expect Alvarez to be a member of the Pirates -- next season, perhaps?

-- Gary W., Aurora, Ill.

Similar to any player in our system, Pedro's skills, abilities, aptitude and development will determine his progression through our system. In my experience, Gary, few players have been damaged by a conservative development path, while many have been irreparably damaged by being rushed.

And:

Andy LaRoche has not been performing well since arriving here. Is this a major concern or a case of having to make adjustments?

-- Ryan L., Pittsburgh

Andy is not alone is his struggles as he attempts to establish himself as a Major League player. A historical perspective shows several All-Star-, and even Hall-of-Fame-caliber players that did not perform well at a similar age in their first extended exposure at the Major League level. Some development remains with Andy, but we still believe he will earn his at-bats and become a very productive Major League player

------  end of quoted material ---

Does that seem a little contradictory to anyone else?

NuttingHostage wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 2:15 PM

Baywatch,

"Did everyone forget that they outspent just about everyone on the draft this year?"

That is true, but I think we need to peel that onion back a bit further.

The Bucs overall draft spend was influenced dramatically by the drafting and subsequent signing of Alvarez. The best management team in baseball, if not all of sports pretty much forced themselves into drafting and signing Alvarez when they put the stake in the ground that they were going to start drafting the best player available. - They may regret that now, but i think they forced their own hands.

But moreoever when you look at the rest of the money and the picks they signed with that money outside of Alvarez, the Bucs performed average to below average.

They signed an average number of picks, and less than them top two teams in their own division, and they signed a high percentage of low round picks.

I'm glad they drafted and signed Alvarez, it was the right thing to do, but I am not of the opinion that one player will turned around a talent starved organization.

They really needed to spend another $2M - $3M across the entire draft and sign more picks and more of their top picks. - Even if it meant going above slot to do it.

The two guys the club is highlight now are McLouth and Doumit and I'm pretty certain both were above slot signees. - So what's that tell you?

JAL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 2:22 PM

@Nutting--What do you look for in a bench.  I just looked at the stats and Gomez hit .273 with 20 RBI, Michaels hit .224 with 53 RBI in 286 AB, DD hit .277 with 30 RBI.  ALso, how was Wilson a bench player?  He was either starting or injured most of the season.  

leadoff wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 2:26 PM

Hey Hostage, I would pick any of your candidates if he could teach these pitchers how to throw some spit balls, grease balls, knuckle balls, cut balls, knock down pitches, for that matter any ball that moved a little bit, in general throw something besides those boring fast balls down the middle and outside corners. Maby the first question on the interview would be, "WILL YOUR PITCHERS PITCH INSDE'. Just give me somebody that is not a nice guy. Wonder if Bob Gibson would take the job.

JAL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 2:28 PM

Pirates signed 8 of their top ten picks and 15 of their top 20--and they decided not to sign Scheppers so if you take him out they signed 9 of their top 10

Cave Bonifield wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 2:41 PM

Baywatch

You are right on the draft.  They very easily could have spent less and they would have heard about it from us.

Hostage

I agree with JAL.  As benches go, they did pretty good though they were lacking a masher off the bench.  Also I don't believe the slotting system was in place when Ryan and Nate were signed.  They did pay up for Nate, but Doumit as a #2 was on target.

NuttingHostage wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 2:45 PM

Jal,

Gomez was signed to be a backup at short only to find he was unable in spring training. His eroded range in the field reduced his value and impact. His lack of power really makes him useless as a pinch-hitter.

Michaels? - You answered your own question. .228 and subpar defensive skills.

Rivas? - I'd keep him as a backup second baseman, but he clearly demonstrated he can't handle short either.

What would I look for?

A defensive whiz who can handle short and second.

A power bat who can back up either 1B, 3B, OF, or a combination thereof.

You have to have a power threat off the bench for pinch-hitting duty.

Gomez, Rivas, and Michaels were one of the most useless and dysfunctional benches I've ever seen. - All were poor defensively, none could play shortstop. Michaels had a little power off the bench from a pinch-hitting perspective, but I don't like him at all for a #4 outfield spot because of his poor defense and low average. - There was a reason Cleveland designated him for assignment and we found out why.

My advice to you if I may.....is to aspire for more than Gomez, Wilson, and Blondie the Cop Beater.

uglyken wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 2:51 PM

Hostage -- My vote would be for Farrell, but I have to agree that it would have to be a long shot. I don't want Walk because I prefer him in the broadcast booth. I would next choose Miller, but I have doubts that he would want to face such a daunting task this late in his carrier. I will second your choice instead,  Rick Peterson.

leadoff-- I wonder if we coulsd just get Bob Gibson to perform a little special instruction, like Maz does at Spring Training? What is Bruce Kison doing these days?

Cisco Kid wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 2:52 PM

DK, you've really taken the wind out of the Jolly Roger sails today in your analysis article. Once again painful reality intrudes: the Bucs want a power bat, a starting pitcher, and a setup man? Great! But guess what - they don't want to PAY for them. We will bottom feed again. We will wait until the beginning of February and take whatever dregs are left after the serious teams have snapped up the good and even the mediocre players. You've said so in so many words - that killer single word "inexpensive" that attaches itself to everything the team actually does, no matter what else they say.

To actually compete on a $40 mil payroll would take superhuman management genius. We don't have that, Bob Nutting's pronouncements to the contrary should be filed in the same file as McClatchy's infamous "90 wins" announcement prior to the 100 loss season. What we (horribly depressingly) seem to have is a relentless focus on not spending enough to be even remotely competitive.

Instead we see that as soon as a player nears a state of existence loosely associated with "expensive" - via free agency, arbitration, etc. - they are simply gone, for the franchise refuses to ever set out serious coin. And yet, they refuse to ever admit that they cannot or will not ever have the money and should sell the franchise to someone who does. They would rather kill the Pirates first.

I've tried very hard to believe and to remain positive this year. I've tried to see the logic in the "new plan" (shades of Stalin and the annual Five Year Plan). I've felt that glimmer of hope when Bob swore the wallet would open. Slam! Shot down again. There it is, right there in DK's swan song article about how bad things look for next season, the undisputed truth for the 17th and never-ending losing season: "INEXPENSIVE."

We stood on our sloped (of course - it was Western PA after all) playground outside our elementary school in 1958 as long as we could - until the snow started in late October - with our bats and gloves and 23 kids to a side, so hopelessly inept that an inning was seldom finished, with our third swing taken from us by bigger kids (they called it taking our tips) so we wouldn't strike out, running and yelling and throwing in a crazed, out-of-body experience - where every last blessed one of us was a Pittsburgh Pirate, Mighty and Strong and Worthy of Cheers Until Hoarse, reassured by the goofy malapropisms and unabashed homerism of the Gunner, tucked in at night by lovable, fiery Danny Murtaugh, knowing that next year was going to be The Year, because Joe L. Brown and Der Bingle would see to it that we always had genuine Hope and - most importantly - Pride. And even as the dreaming boy who would one day pitch a World Series no-hitter for the Buccos grew up, instead, to be just another face in the bleachers, that Hope and Pride endured, a power so embedded that even the Steelers' and Penguins' wonderful success could never penetrate so deeply.

And now it's gone. All of it. Every last bit.

Thanks a (40) (inexpensive) million(s), Bob.

NuttingHostage wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 2:57 PM

Jal & Cave:

The Brewers signed:

- 22 players thru the first 20 rounds due to comp picks.

- 5 picks from rounds 35 thru 50.

The Cubs signed;

- 19 players thru the first 20 rounds.

- 1 pick from rounds 35 thru 50.

The Pirates signed:

- 15 players from the top 20 rounds

- 11 picks from rounds 35 to 50.

The Brewers and Cubs spent their money more wisely on the top talent they drafted and wasted little on late round picks.

The Bucs went about their draft bassakwards. - The signed fewer of their top 20 picks and an inordinate number of bottom round minor league meat players.

And that is just a comparison of two teams in their division.

If the Cubs and Brewers are spending their money on better amateur picks, how are the Bucs ever going to catch up and become a championship caliber team?

JAL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 3:08 PM

Nutting--Well explained.  Complete bench players are valuable because you want more than pinch hitting.  You can have one pure hitter but you do need people to be able to step on field and play positions well.  

JClare wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 3:09 PM

DK, Thank you for all your hardwork this year.  It has been a pleasure to read your work everyday.  Quite frankly, lunch at my computer will not be the same without you....(wiping away tears)

JClare

JHadar wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 3:12 PM

Cisco -- Part of the joy of being that special breed -- Pirate fan -- is being able to scale that mountain of hope again and again after being knocked down into the valley of despair.  

DK's instincts are good -- but let's not write the obituary until the patient is dead.  

I'm pullin' for ya'.  We're all in this together.  

JAL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 3:17 PM

Nutting--the only question I have is whether the Pirates signed less due to money or poor picks.  With a history of injured pitchers in their past I thought selecting an injured pitcher with the #2 pick was inexcusable.  

diehard wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 3:30 PM

I'm for signingg Kerrigan as pitching coach.  He's got a long history at it - which may help JR learn to handle his staff a little better.  I think he had a rep for getting his guys very well prepared as well.  Even had Pedro Martinez for 2 Cy Youngs.  Not saying Snell will ever be PM, but he's a similar type pitcher (mostly in size, build, and fastball).

Cisco Kid wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 3:38 PM

JHadar - I just don't know if I can stand to look in the mirror anymore and say, "well, I'm a special breed." I know there are full grown adults out there who have NEVER felt that Pride I spoke of.

What is there left to be proud of? "Hey, look, there are three teams even worse than us?" as someone mentioned earlier? The obverse being that there are 26 teams better? That my team's idea of a Lefty McThump is Dr. Strangebat? That his brother is our "only option" at third next year? (Which sounds no different from announcing that all five rotation spots were locked up at the beginning of February.) That our payroll is only the third lowest in baseball? That Nutting has repeatedly refused to sell to someone with actual money?

Pride. That's what's gone, is Pride Pride Pride. I can't even walk up to a Reds fan and have Pride anymore. In fact, I can't have pride to anyone - not even a Royals fan, a Mariners fan, a Nationals fan. They, at least, have not had 16 losing seasons in a row (make that 17, please, with a side order of the worst record in franchise history coming right up - the 115 losses projected today outdoing even the immortal 1890 Alleghenies).

No Pride. We're reduced to being a Special Breed.

Bizrow wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 3:48 PM

Don't forget, two of our late round picks are now back in the Army

And Scheppers (spelling sorry) signed with an independent team?

DK, all I can say, is I agree with what everyone else has said, and everyone else, I agree what DK said about yunz!

One more thing, and no offense, Pride?  Hey, I'm a Pirates fan, its in my blood, I just have to deal with it.  Its part of who I am.

JHadar wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 3:50 PM

Of course this year's draft was lightyears ahead of any one of Littlefield's.  Littlefield could have signed all of his top 100,000 picks and he still would be lacking one guy as good as our first 20 this year.  Just my opinion, mind you.  

I liked the Pirates draft this year because they did take some gambles, and because the club will get better as a result.  If the Cubs continue to match payrolls with Boston and the Yankees they will depend more on FA signings and trades than their draft anyway.  

For us, the need to drop more of the Littlefield era scouts and talent evaluators remains the top hidden priority.  We need people who know what they're doing.  We've had a year to test the holdovers, and I would hope that we can see an upgrade here next year.

Baywatch wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 3:52 PM

Cave and All - I've noticed a lot of discussion about how the Pirates figure to continue on the cheap in the off-season, given their track record ...

Did everyone forget that they outspent just about everyone on the draft this year? Remember what a big deal that was, just before the trade deadline, how they were inking all these prospects and shekkin' out big bucks?

I know, I know ... 16 years of losing and livin' on the cheap ... we'll have to wait and see, BUT I think the money they dropped in the draft is something we should remember.

NuttingHostage - I like you, too, but if you ever do leave the avatar stays behind, OK?

JHadar wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 3:56 PM

Cisco -- What can I say, I feel your pain.  Three terrible choices.  (1) Continue, (2) root for someone else, would feel like being a traitor, (3a) try to watch games as a neutral for the love of the sport (3b) give up baseball.  

When it got bad in the '80's I put MLB on the back shelf and took in a lot of minor league, high school, and college games.  

DMac wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 3:59 PM

Let's fill the blog with doom and gloom why don't we?  ;-)

I'm ready to forget a lot of the bad this season and focus on the positives -- there were some:  McLouth, Doumit, Dougie, Maholm.  And the team did come together better than they did last year.  I think team cohesiveness is a big thing...you can't win if there are 25 individuals out there -- they have to play as one unit.  That will come, I think next Spring.

I'm sad the season is over, but I'm looking forward to what next year will bring.  

I understand that I'm new to the PBC, but at least you've had baseball.  When you live in a place like Nebraska, it's hard to follow any baseball at all...and then it's Cardinals, Royals or Cubs..ugh!    So win or lose, I'm glad to have spent this season here and I look forward to many more.  That Black and Gold gets into your system and I don't think it's going to let go...and that's not a bad thing.  Yinz are good people!

Thanks, DK for your great work this season and for answering my multitude of questions via e-mail, pre-blog.  Enjoy your period of hibernation and the time you get to spend with your family.

Matt Alexander-DR wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 4:00 PM

As usual I only made it halfway through the string before deciding to comment..

Thanks to DK for making following the Bucs as much fun as it can be - and for giving me something to think and laugh about as I inhale my lunch at my desk everyday.

And thanks to Hostage.  As long as Hostage is on here I know that I will never be the most negative pirate fan in existence.  Try doing what I do..close your eyes and pretend there's not really an owner..just an automated machine that tells FC and NH how much money they can spend each year.  Good stuff though - stirring things up means discussion which is what every blog needs.

Thanks to BuccoNation for really making the case that Chris Duffy has gold-glove caliber major leage talent and a legit future in the major leagues.  That was a truly epic tilt at a windmill if ever there was one - I admire your faith!

And thanks to JAL for reminding me that my one year of little league baseball does not make me a total expert on big league pitching (in pointing out that Zach Duke might not be as bad as I thought.)  Getting proved wrong can be a good thing I'm learning.

Matt Alexander-DR wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 4:03 PM

Hostage -regarding your pitching coach list and subsequent discussion, didn't Farrell turn down the managerial job here last offseason?  If that's the case, and if he paid any attention at all to what happened to the pitching staff this year (or had a chat about with J Bay,) I can't see him thinking..yeah, I've got John Lester, Becket, Dice-K here but want I really want is a challenge!  Someone said his son in the pirate system?  maybe if we promote him to the big league club that would lure dad but I doubt it.

I think maybe we could get an oranguatan that would stand behind the pitchers and whack them in the head everytime they throw 3 consecutive balls, or picks them up and body slams them everytime they walk the opposing pitcher.  Start in spring training and I can see immediate dividends.

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 4:12 PM

Good afternoon, all.

First off, unless you have already left the building, a big, big, departing,  Michael Buble hug for you,  Dejan.

Secondly, this really isn't like BK to be so silent. Do hope all is well.

Thirdly, though the BLOG will not go dormant, I suspect some of us will post less and less frequently, till baseball is again in the air come springtime. So big, bodacious, Buble hugs, all around, for everyone who has made this forum so fun.

And now, down to business:

I can't speak to why we weren't able to sign more of our higher draft picks (though, when our #2 turned out to not be recovered from his shoulder injury, I think management was wise to walk away). But if memory serves me correctly, we reached for the brass ring with some of our lower picks --i.e., high ceiling players, but ones who had declared for college or, for some other reason, didn't seem eminently signable. And we landed that shortstop out of Florida, among others, this way. This is also how we once got Nate McClouth. If the new front office wants to give this strategy a try, for a few years, I say: why not? Shake things up a little. Show some boldness. Can't work out any worse than what we've had for the last decade-plus.

Baywatch wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 4:16 PM

NuttingHostage - OK, that's it: I told you yesterday about calling people names ... You remain unrepentant about linking Jason Michaels and his playing abilities to a regrettable moment in his past.

And today, no lame excuses, citing Coonelly's desire to bring in quality people, as well as players - YOU NEVER LIKE ANYTHING THAT MANAGEMENT DOES, so why act like you like that thought.

At the risk of sounding like Gomer Pyle: What a mean thang, what a mean thang to do!" Its' one thing to make fun of LaRoche because he can't hit in April or May, it's another to call a guy a cop beater ... what are you, Captain America? Might there be something about YOUR PAST that you'd rather remain there, and try to overcome, with the help of your friends?

Since this is a baseball blog, I'm going to consider this two strikes. Next time, you're out the door and your avatar stays. And the only blogging you'll be doing is with Barry Manilow and his records!

Oh. And where do you get off ripping Michaels for his fielding? You like facts, but you haven't cited any. At least JAL manned up and said, yes, he hit .224, but with 53 RBI in 286 AB.

Then you turned it on him, and said "Well, you said it yourself ..." (I tried to say that in that high, copy-cat, nasally voice ... maybe like Judy Rutherford, the spoiled girl on Leave it to Beaver)

I know it's just one victory out of 67 (and I swear, NH, if you turn that on me ...) but all Michaels did was work his butt off out there to earn a good percentage of Karsten's near no-no.

I'd like to see some real power off the bench, too. But I live in a real world where that's not available sometimes ... even for people that like to open their wallets.

Enough of this long post ... honestly, you make some good points, and the stuff we disagree on makes us all think, and for us non-Descartes-types, that's got to be good.

But in the interest of what is good and right, stop calling Michaels, "Blondie the Cop Beater."

uglyken wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 4:27 PM

Cisco-- I know how it feels to be a "special Breed" and it usually doesn't feel too good. I was just 1 year old when we won in 1960, but I got to watch my beloved heros win two championships. I wouldn't want to be a fan of the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Cubs, Braves, Dodgers, or _______. I would rather endure 16 (or 18) consectutive loosing seasons, than to NEVER see my heros win it all. I can't imagine the longing that must be burning in the hearts of Cubs fans. There almost certainly are no Cubs fans alive that has EVER seen a championship for their team. How do they bear it? Anyway, I will continue to go to games, watch them on TV, listen on the radio, and hopefully read your posts here on this blog. True fans like Baywatch, JAL, JL, Pirata13, Cave, Hostage, BillyKidd, Cisco, etc. are the reason I still have hope that we WILL have a winner in PGH again. I think of this as harsh training that will keep us all from being too full of ourselves when we are on top again. How could we ever forget how bad it can actually be?

I guess that I'm just doomed to believe.

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 4:31 PM

You go, Baywatch! Right on!

And NuttingHostage, you and I don't have any bad blood between us, but Baywatch is my buddy, and if he's gonna pile drive you, I'm gonna pile drive you, next. There'll be nothing left of you but a heap of quivering flesh. SO THERE! Or, as Woody put it in Toy Story I, "PLAY NICE!"

Pirata13 wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 4:38 PM

Cave--Great Awards list!

does anyone think Tekulve would be up for the challenge of pitching coach? and would he be a good choice?  just a thought...

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 4:48 PM

Nutting,

Just in case you couldn't tell, my post to you was done tongue-in-cheek. You don't seem disrespectful to any of us fellow bloggers. The Jason Michaels schtick IS getting a little old, though. Michaels paid his debt to society for that. The iconoclast in me says the cop might have even deserved it anyway. Plus, the cop then apparently shook down Michaels for some money in an "undisclosed settlement", after the cop sued Michaels. What kind of cop sues because he got socked, once?

JHadar wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 4:49 PM

Bay-ver -- Sometimes you just need to stand up to Eddie Haskell or he's liable to push you all over the place --

Wally

Cave Bonifield wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 4:55 PM

Pirata

I have heard on numerous occasions while watching broadcasts of other teams games,  the inevitable question put to an ex ballplayer color analyst of going back into the game to coach or manage etc.    Almost to the last one they all respond the same, " What, and give this up".    Unless they relly yearn to get back in the dugout, I think most of them see it as a strep backwards.

The exceptions are those who take the analyst jobs at the national level just as a bookmark until they are offered anothe job, like Bobby Valentine eg.  

I do think Teke would be a meritous choice.

G-Man wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 5:04 PM

Cave -

Great awards list. And a much better presentation than the recent Emmys. Here's a Hap Cap for your efforts.

    __/_H_\

Pirata13-

Not sure why you hare having a problem returning to your original avatar. Are yo usure you aren't trying to like to a pic of Roethlisberger?  Let me remind you of the two most common omissions: (1) click on "save" at the bottom of the edit page and (2) empty your temporary internet files cache and do a refresh. It's also possible the upload is not completing due to the awful server conditions this week. Try it at night sometime.

For the record, of those who changed avatars during the year, you had the best series - all were great. Hap Cap to ya!

    __/_H_\

mazfromiowa wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 5:04 PM

As I looked at the official site I saw the pic of Huntington and I was reminded more of a young Jack Nicklaus than Opie.As far as pitching coaches I am in favor of raiding another team when I see what is out there.Never hurts to ask.After all if a pitching coach is out of a job then he's probably not that good

Cave Bonifield wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 5:07 PM

MAZ

Talking to someone actively under contract is a no-no.

BattlinBucs wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 5:09 PM

@JAL- I didn't mind drafting Scheppers in the 2nd round.  He was supposed to go top 10 before his injury.  We need top players and we took a chance on him being healthy and it didn't pan out.  We get a comp pick next year.  Scheppers was never projected #3 starter, which was nice to see.

@NH- I do disagree with almost all of your posts about the new front office but your avatar is hilarious.

Cave Bonifield wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 5:09 PM

GMan

Thank you for your distinguished award.  I wish I could have included every one of you in the awards list.  

JHadar wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 5:14 PM

DMac -- There are lots of positives, but gloom and doom pervades -- though it's not my view, I keep feelilng a need to says that -- essentially because we're in a fix and with the great power of the internet to gather information on every transaction and move that management makes, the excellent coverage by DK and the rest at the P-G and the frustration of the average fan -- no matter what they do it's not going to be enough.  If we break through and win 82 next year, we'll hear about not being a contender.  If we make the playoffs we'll hear being eliminated, and if we win it all we'll hear that management is going to blow up the team next year and start over.  

If someone hits well, they don't field well.  If someone pitches well, they'll figure him out next year.  If we make trades we gave up too much for too little.  If we don't make trades we were asking for too much.  

Every team has fans like that.  Most of the guys and gals here are not of that ilk -- but rather than blast the nattering nabobs of negativity we are very cautious in what we say, mostly because we want this to be a friendly community -- but also because we know that the critics of all creation will come back at us on every little detail that doesn't work out.  

In the harsh world of wins and losses, we have simply not done too well, but we are making the right moves to step up.  Not all of them are going to work out, and there are going to be good surprises and bad surprises.  

There's a lot a frustration and little patience, but at some point we have to trust someone.  Coonelly and Huntington have done more in a single year to right the ship than the full capabilities of Bonifield, McLatchy, and Littlefield.  Short of selling the team -- and that to somebody totally competent -- what they are doing makes more sense than anything I've seen since McLatchy bought the club.

madturk2008 wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 5:15 PM

NuttingHostage wrote re: A few final orders of business

on Sep 30, 2008 2:45 PM

Jal,

In your response to JAl I agree with some of what you say.

I do not agree with how you may say things though. With that said here goes.

1. Gomez - Not a good SS and does not hit all that well.

2. Michaels - Not great in the outfield, on average with Pearce for now.  Not a good bat unless coming off the bench.  Too expensive for next year.

3. Rivas - I say should be gone next year, can't play SS or 2nd well enough to stay and we have Cruz for 2nd base back-up.  Not at short though becuase he is very limited in range.

For the bench we do need more and if Pearce does not play fulltime, or only until Moss comes back, then he would be good off the bench.  That will cover the outfield and first base back-up rule.  Cutch may be in the mix as well early or mid year. Duffy should get a look as well to play center if Nate moves to a corner spot. Morgan sorry I am not that high on him with all the blunders, miss plays in the outfiled, and weak arm (maybe a back-up if you want to keep him). We still could use Michaels off the bench if he wants to sign for a much lower rate(if not bye bye).  We should sign Doug and he can back-up 3rd, 1st and outfield.  This leaves SS if they do not keep Jack.  I hope they do for another year or two.  By then maybe something in the minors will be ready.  Third let's give Andy a fresh start and see what happens (Doug in the wings if needed). We have prospects in the minors for third, so another year will not kill us anymore than what we have. Some projected at 3rd base in the minors will be converted to 1st or second ( I have a crystal ball).  So another bat or two and PITCHING is what we need now.  

I think that Paul, Duke, Phil, Jeff are the starters right now.  Ollie, Snell and others will have to show more in spring training to be considered.  My only concern with Snell is his head.

Matt Alexander-DR wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 5:18 PM

Tekulve was a roving scout under Comet Littlefield wasn't he?  The thought of Huntingdon hiring back people who were employed under that maladministration seems very unlikely, given that he seems to be slowly doing away with everyone who was here BN (before neal).  Which I applaud him for by the way, contrary to brother Nutting Hostage's stance - never let yourself be censored my man.  

My guess is it will be someone from outside the organization that none of us have ever heard of.

More general question I have is this: how much say does JR get in the hire?  Sometimes it seems like the pitching coach is almost separate from the rest of the staff and answerable straight to the GM, and that would be a bad situation to have I think.

Cave Bonifield wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 5:24 PM

JHadar

I'm glad to see that I received the blame that I deserved.

Battlin

I agree on Scheppers.  It was a good gamble.  If there wasn't a comp pick, would not have risked it.  

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 5:33 PM

Cave,

Yes, I saw that JHadar inadvertently finger you.

To all, his batting average, pinch hitting, etc. notwithstanding, I thought that one of Michaels strong suits was supposed to be his defense. Wasn't he brought in as a late inning defensive replacement? In that respect, he seemed to do his job just fine. He ran the bases well enough, too. We all just wish his batting average as a starter were higher.

JHadar wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 5:34 PM

Cave -- I almost apologized for a non-intended offense, but then realized you were in personna  LOL!

Cave Bonifield wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 5:35 PM

MattAlex

Hard to say on JR.  My guess is that he may have some input as the list whittles down but final decision would lie with Opie and FC.  

FC needs a nickname.

mazfromiowa wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 5:42 PM

You can ask permission to talk with coaches.I understand the contractual thing.They would not nessacarily have to be a pitching coach.There are bullpen coaches that are experienced.I'm not saying go behind a team's back.I'm saying ask permission.This is not a new concept.It wouldn't have to be a pitching coach,maybe a bullpen coach with experience.If we follow the logic you are all using there would be 5 or 6 viable candidates.I would just as soon get a japanese coach that could show our pitchers about conditioning and a better variety of pitches instead of a coach that's been with 5 or 6 teams.

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 5:44 PM

"FC needs a nickname."

Frankie Goes to Follywood

...I'm working on some better ones...

JHadar wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 5:48 PM

Cave -- re-read it, and finally see it.  Should have been Bonifay, Littlefield, and McLatchy -- So used to having you around that my fingers respond to my eyes instead of my brain.  Apologies for any offense you may have taken.

DanW wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 5:48 PM

Thanks, Dejan, for another great year of coverage.  Someday when the quality of the product on the field matches that of your work describing it, we'll all have something to cheer about.  Enjoy your time with your family.

I don't think that we Pirates fans are really that much of a different breed.  My father was a Steelers fan from their inception and waited 41 years for a champion.  And outside of our city, Red Sox fans waited a lifetime between titles, and Cubs fans are still waiting.  I know those fan bases are full of bandwagon jumpers, but I'm sure there were true fans who followed throughout their ups and downs, which at times probably seemed just as hopeless.  I believe that for most franchises winning and losing go in cycles and the Pirates are just in a particularly bad one, and it will end.

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 5:55 PM

Walk the Plank, Frank

Use the Bank, Frank

Frank the Yank

FC Hammer

FC Bummer

Jose Lind's Pants wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 5:59 PM

How do?

Good to be back if only for a minute to say "hello". And offer some more free press for La Prima. For my birthday got a grinder, coffee pot and bag of the Guatemalan beans. I'm still working on getting it strong enough. I suspect it's the mesh filter is letting H2O through too quickly. Just in case anybody's wondering "Hey, what's Dave doing with his free time?"

Anyway, I can't imagine them getting a pitching coach any of us have heard of. Not because they're cheap, incompetent, and trying to ruin the franchise. (Sorry NuttingHostage!) More because of the moves they've already made. They have a established what rhythm they want and you can bet they're not going to bring in Keith Moon if they have Paul McCartney on bass, it just won't sound right.

Then again I may be way off base and they feel that's the position where someone long in the tooth is an asset.

On a different note, Mrs. Pants' Book Club is starting their new season in October. (The Anarchist Cookbook, in case you're wondering.) And I thought: "Hey, maybe some of these saps would want to get together and have a cup of coffee or a slice of pizza once in awhile. No books necessary." So if anyone's interested I'll check back later in the week maybe we can get together and see the faces behind the vitriol.

Matt Alexander-DR wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 6:00 PM

CB - I tend to agree.  NH and FC will make the final call on the pitching coach and at most they might sit down with JR and ask him if he thinks he can work with whoever it will be.  

JL - if JR brought in Michaels as a defensive replacement at some point this year I must have missed it.  He's not craig wilson-bad in the OF, but no one is ever going to confuse him with Jim Edmunds patrolling CF.  

Seems to me bench players are important in how they support the starters..i.e.,how are they 'in the clubhouse'..are they good guys in that respect?  If we have some that are right now who want to stay at a reasonable rate, keep them.  If not, find some other ones - in the end keeping Gomez, Rivas or Michaels is far less important than getting another solid reliable arm in the pen and/or in the starting rotation.

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 6:08 PM

DanW,

Unfortunately, the economics of the game have changed things forever. Most teams can't match the outrageous sums the Yankees and Red Sox throw around. The occasional upstart like Tampa Bay might be able to sneak in and steal a championship before reality catches up, though. Something along those lines is our best bet. And to get into position to do that, management has to be extremely wise with its moves. Almost no margin for error with a club like ours.

JHadar wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 6:16 PM

Where's BillyKidd -- AWOL for a couple of days now, hope you're OK wherever you are and not in some hospital again guy.

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 6:16 PM

Matt,

Michaels' play in the outfield looked pretty solid, to me. Maybe what we need to observe is his conspicuous ABSENCE of, misplays, mishaps, and whatnot. In any event, as described to us fans when Michaels was first brought in, part of his resume was that of a defensive replacement for later innings. Maybe he didn't run through any walls for us this year, but  I didn't see anything to disabuse me of the notion that he's a good defensive outfielder. The only knock on him is that his BA --as a starter-- crept lower, and lower.

Matt Alexander-DR wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 6:26 PM

JL - I agree that Michaels was not going to cost us runs on a regular basis, like say my favorite prospect, Steve Pearce, seems to do on a daily basis.  But my recollection of bringing him was adding a solid bat to the bench..good pinch hitter, occasional spot starter in the OF.  I don't recall any mention of him having an above average glove but maybe I should go back and read the archive..my memory could be faulty on this one.

To your point that you made to Dan about certain teams throwing money away and teams like Tampa maybe being able to 'sneak in' and win one once in awhile, I disagree.

If you look at Tampa's roster, do you think this is a one year wonder type of team?  It's full of young players, with manageable contracts, that the team has control over for several years - that is the nirvana NH is seeking.  Remember last year's NLCS - too teams with payrolls very close to the PBC's.  I agree that a margin for error is smaller for the pirates, twins, brewers, rockies, marlins, than it is for the yankees, but as you can see, all that money can't automatically get you into the playoffs.  But to say that the most a team like the PBC can hope for is one of those magical one year runs then back to sum-mediocrity just isn't true, and even if it is, it's far too depressing a reality to accept personally..I plan on staying in denial on this topic indefinitey.

mazfromiowa wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 6:34 PM

I agree completely with "Pants".They will not take somebody that's been discussed here.Just like picking JR came out of left field.They've got a long list,but it will be settled between the end of the World Series and before the winter meetings.So we all might as well be patient because they need to pick someone that commands respect and also is more of a leader.  

DMac wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 6:44 PM

Sooooo, JH, are you telling me it's okay to run around here with my rose-colored glasses?  :)

I'll you all handle the doom and gloom while I try to accentuate the positives...how does that sound?  

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 6:53 PM

"...Remember last year's NLCS..."

Yes I do. Neither team made the playoffs this year.

Both were playing over their heads, last year. Not that I think the Rockies are as bad as this year's plunge suggests. But except for East Coast teams, West Coast teams, and maybe the two in Chicago, the money to needed to stay in it, year after year, just isn't the reality. Look at all the World Series champs in this decade that didn't come from the above category: The D-backs fell on hard times after winning, as did the Marlins, as did the Cardinals (sort of --most people think LaRussa did a great job this year just keeping them in the middle of the division).  The Brewers opened their wallets this year, but many expect them to touch back down to reality after they lose their free agents this coming winter. Tampa Bay has a good core, but keeping it will cost money. Their attendence figures were in the toilet this year. Money, as always, will be the issue with them too, sooner rather than later.

As for the Bucs, I look for them to emulate the Brewers / Rays. Get close by building through the draft and making shrewd FA signings. When you think you have a shot, go for it, like the Brewers did this year by paying for Gagne, Sabathia, etc. Hopefully the fall off won't be too far, and in a half decade or so, they can be within reaching distance again.

But as for Tampa Bay, or Milwaukee (or someday, Pittsburgh) being a year-in, year-out competitor a la the 90's Yankees or the 00's Red Sox? Ain't gonna happen until baseball is reformed to resemble something like the NFL.

Baywatch wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 6:59 PM

Jose Lind's Pants - I was there when NH was talking with DK about the pitching coach change ... I saw you standing by, too, when NH told DK, off the record:

"Just between you and me ... (he leans closer to DK's ear) We wouldn't bring Keith Moon in to play drums, with Paul McCartney on bass."

BUT I DON'T WANT A RINGO STARR-TYPE AS OUR PITCHING COACH, EITHER!

Off to work, I'll catch you guys on the midnight shift ...

JAL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 7:00 PM

Bk is fine, just busy

Matt--thanks for the thanks,  Better to wrong about some who gets better than you thought than someone who gets worse you thought.  I am always happy to wrong if something turns out better than I thought. :)

Glad I wrong that Scheppers wasn't a waste-forgot that we get a pick for him next year.  Yes, he projected high but isn't it always risky picking an pitcher with an injury affecting his ability to pitch.  Maybe a good gamble a bit lower but 2nd seems high.  

Substitute2 wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 7:02 PM

thanks for all the coverage and the honesty. See you in the winter papers.

JAL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 7:06 PM

@JL--right about being a yearly competitor but I think it is possible to be a winning or close to winning team regularly--not go 16 years under .500.  If done well any team can challenge on regular, not yearly, basis.  Build a winner--be a challenger for a couple of years--let a couple of stars go through FA or trade-have good replacements in the monors--get them experience--challenge again.  Something like the Marlins have done--or the the Twins in the AL.  

JAL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 7:07 PM

@Bay--have a good night in the pizza wars!

Cave Bonifield wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 7:16 PM

JHadar

My comment was in persona as you correctly noted.  No apology necessary.

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 7:25 PM

JAL,

PRECISELY.

I'm actually an optomist. Heck, I really believe Ian Snell will be pretty darn good, next year (with Duke not far behind). But anyway, yes to your description. Build a winner and challenge for a championship, regroup while not falling back too much, and then strike again!

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 7:26 PM

I'm also an "optimist"!

JAL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 7:35 PM

Jl--I am an optimist too. Snell and Duke both can pitch well, as they did at times this season.  Hopefully they will both show that more often next season.

JAL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 7:45 PM

@Cave--Sorry about that chief but thanks for mentioning me in awards post.  Glad I did not have to say "misses it by that much".  :)

BillyKidd wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 7:47 PM

Hello all, to those that have missed me thanks and I am back. For those of you that didn't miss me..tough. <grin> Without a story JAL was correct I was busy with work. I have kept tabs but have not been able to follow all that much consistenly, other than to say thanks for a spectacular year DK. Although I am sure he is snuggling on the couch with his daughter and by now hopefully has forgotten each and every one of us.

jersey joe wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 8:03 PM

www.youtube.com/watch

One day without the pirates and we think like this

JAL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 8:14 PM

@BK--Several were concerned you might had a relapse so I hope you don't mind that reassured them you were ok.

A bit quiet here now--very busy earlier

TheBurghBlues wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 8:16 PM

Thanks Dejan for posting fantastic articles with PPG. You're one of my favorite writers.

BillyKidd wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 8:18 PM

If i am repetive to earlier comments I am sorry. Please tell me so and I will attempt to catch up to the crowd.

I can not see how the PBC comes back next year with the same staff. I agree with comments above that Snell and Duke and even an in-shape Gorzo can pitch. I am not sure though which one is on the hot-seat, maybe Gorzo. I think at least 2 of them will A) be cut B) sent to the BP and emergency starts.

BillyKidd wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 8:22 PM

@JAL--Not at all thank you.

JAL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 8:28 PM

Hopefully September was a sign of things to come. Snell had an ERA under 4 in September, Maholm was 3.00, and Duke was 2.87.  That's pretty good pitching and they played plenty of games that month against teams fighting for playoff spots.

BillyKidd wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 8:35 PM

@JAL--Do you take that chance (sign of things to come)? Or do you plan for the worst by FA pitching acquisitions I would like to see 1 FA and 1 invitee if not 2 FA  and as many invitees as you can get to Bradenton for pitching competition.

jersey joe wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 8:37 PM

www.youtube.com/watch

This ought to get your hearts pumping

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 8:42 PM

Yes, there must be competition in March to determine who pitches in April. I just happen to think Snell and Duke are fighters, who have learned from their mistakes. Gorzelanny, unfortunately, is a huge mystery. So start with Maholm. Then let Snell, Duke, Gorzo, Karstens, Ohlendorf, Dumatrait, Bartmeier, and some candidates from outside the organization, all fight it out for the other four spots. We should have a pretty good bullpen fleshed out with Capps, Grabow (if he's not dealt), Yates, Burnett, possibly Chavez, and two or so of the starter candidates who don't make that mix. Craig Hansen falls into the "mystery" category, too.  But if we're lucky, Evan Meek will be ready for prime time, next year.

In any event, I just can't see our pitching being as horrible as it was this year. We've got no where to go, but up.

BillyKidd wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 8:55 PM

@JL--I would like to agree, (no where but up) I am just that the damage dome to these pitchers from this year (I hope the mental can heal and diasppear) but just not sure that all of the issues with the mechanics can be corrected in a few weeks of SpTr, by a new pitching coach.

SandlotWizard wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 8:59 PM

I hope they make Andy LaRoche compete for the starting 3B job next season with Neil Walker.  

I think that competition for the job would help to bring the best out of both of them.  Both are pretty highly rated prospects.  I think Walker might turn it up a notch if he thought a ML job were at stake.  And LaRoche seems to need something to motivate him.

Why not open the job up and let the best man win?  If they think LaRoche is the better player, they can't be afraid to expose him to competition, especially from another prospect.   If he can't handle that, then how can he be one of the players supposed to lead the Pirates to the Promised Land?

JAL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 9:01 PM

Jersey--great memories great find

@BK Oh, they need to find a mature pitcher with a solid record--say a Jon Garland type--12-12-12-18=-18-10-14 win the past 7 seasons.

BillyKidd wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 9:04 PM

Boy let me try that again---simultaneous triple multi tasks do not work.

I am just not sure that the damage done to these pitchers from this year

I hope the negative mental side of last year can heal and disappear

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 9:05 PM

Sandlot,

I'm with you on opening up 3rd to a competition. It would be nice if they'd re-sign Doug and let him in on the competition, too. But since a youth movement is underway, as you say, let Walker and Lil LaRoche battle it out.

They still should re-sign Doug. (!!!!!)

Sammy Khalifa wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 9:12 PM

Cheers and gracias on your most excellent contribution to the blogosphere.  While I wish that next October would bring about something positive for you to scribe about, I do believe this organization has worn down my eternal flame of optimism to a mere puff of smoke.  I'm thinking of moving to Portland.  I hear the Beavers upgraded their stadium ...

BillyKidd wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 9:15 PM

I know Mussina is a dinosaur. He is my favorite pitcher in all of baseball. Even though he won 20 games (first time in a HOFcareer, my opinion) He obviously still has gas in the tank for 2 years minimum. I do not think he will command CC type money and CC might be the Moose's replacement. NYY have not committed to keeping him. His demeanor work ethic would be an unbelievable fit and mentor for everyone on the staff. Make a play for him all he can say is no. A PBC blogger can dream, can't he?

jersey joe wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 9:19 PM

Guessing Dorf tired out here a little at the end and he gets his mph up like all say he can crank it up to.

I have thought it would be nice to give Burnett a shot at a start, But I now think they have done the right thing with his developement.

Uncertainty is our anxiety.  The spring ball conditioning preparedness of Duke, Gorzo, and Ian is where lies how the pitching staff looks come opening day.

All three may be on track like this year never happened or all three could be in the bullpen.

Maybe I do drink koolaid but I see optimism with anticipated developement of amny of the staff.

JAL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 9:21 PM

@BK--Multitasking  is one those things that someone tosses out and people buy into it without thinking.  Here is my definition of multitasking:  Doing several things at less than their best.  If multitasking results in auto accidents (it does) why do people think that would not affect the job negatively.

JAL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 9:27 PM

@BK--Dream on  www.youtube.com/watch

Might as well try for Mussina--I have read that he is thinking about retiring but after winning 20 that seems hard to do

JHadar wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 9:31 PM

Another reason for optimism.  Dejan credits the entire front office for coming forward, not ducking any questions, and giving answers blunter than the questions.

Another form of accountability.  NH says Andy didn't play well, but has hopes he'll be better next year -- and it comes out of context by some as "he'll play better" and they jump all over it.  (Example of tactic, not a reference to any specific discussion or blogger).  What he really meant was "Andy didn't play well... "  

It seems to me like straighter talk than we've had in the past and Dejan says every question he raised was answered.   Considering that DK does read the blog, it means that we do have a voice -- and that these guys are listening to us the fans; maybe not doing everything we want, as fast or as much as we want, but listening.  

And that is something.

BillyKidd wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 9:34 PM

@JAL---One of my fav's. Way to go!!!

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 9:52 PM

Make a play for Mussina, and if he says "no", then don't forget about this guy:

www.palmbeachpost.com/.../wedgie2.jpg

BillyKidd wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 9:54 PM

@JL--Which one..<grin>

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:01 PM

BK,

The Jimmy Anderson look-a-like seems to be getting the better of the embrace. I'd go for him.

JAL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:02 PM

@BK--Glad you enjoyed the song.  An extra attraction of this blog is the music knowledge.  I like a lot rather obscure music yet someone here is familiar with whatever anyone posts.  

mazfromiowa wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:18 PM

Delores is one of my faves.Wish she didn't disappear

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:18 PM

JAL,

When it comes to music, you, BK and Baywatch  all seem amazingly literate. I'd have to say you come in first place, though.

BillyKidd wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:25 PM

@JAL--Oh so right about the variety and knowledge of music and so many other subjects of the members of the asylum

PI Stingray wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:31 PM

Little late with the post this morning (10:30AM here); Loved the kudos list DK;

1. As far as pitching coach, would love to see the Bucs get one with as much experience as possible.

2. Keep Jack, Doug & Freddie.

3. Instead of signing a mediocre F/A starter (not really much available), do what I've been saying this whole year - sign a decent pitcher from Japan or the Far East. Too much talent over here to ignore and you've got the Kuwata influence....use it!

4. Hope to see you all from time to time on the blog and will be back in force in December.....

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:31 PM

You guys ever hear that BBC radio show where the DJ asks celebrities to pick 10 albums they would take with them if they were to be stranded on a desert island?

What would you all take, if you were limited to three?

Myself, I'd take:

Van Halen I

Santana I

and I'll have to think about the third...

JAL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:33 PM

@JL--Thank you.  

@Maz--She hasn't disappeared--she did some solo shows in the US in 2007 and is supposed to be a movie filming next year.

@BK--Yes a lively and varied group we are.

Time for head off the old bunkhouse whipperoos.

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:33 PM

I meant ABRAXAS, not Santana I.

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:43 PM

Hi, PI.

Drunken Pirate wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:43 PM

Thanks for your hard work, DK...enjoy your well deserved break.

BillyKidd wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:45 PM

@PI-- I have not seen Kuwata other than here for really no time at all but the mgmt here seemed to hold him in high regard.

Does he have a coaching mentality...They did offer him a coaching position with the PBC before he returned home...Just a thought...

BillyKidd wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:46 PM

@JL--Thank you for the compliment.

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 10:55 PM

Kuwata wants to manage in Japan. I think what PI was referring to though, was that since Kuwata put Pittsburgh on the map for the Japanese, other Japanese players might now consider Pittsburgh as a place to sign.

BillyKidd wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 11:09 PM

@JL--I understand that, but I do not care as good as Japanese Baseball is it is not the MLB even for coaches and Managers. If Kuwata would like to add to an already stellar player resume a year or 2 in the MLB as a pitching coach is not shabby especially if you are good.If it seems as though he has the pedigree for coaching, ask. All he can say is no. If you think players might consider PBC because we gave him a shot what do you think they would do if he was our pitching coach? I forgot...This all is probably garbage anyway...He does not speak English does he? I would not mind having a Lapanese coach. Their overall discipline and approach to the game might be just what the doctor ordered.

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 11:21 PM

Actually,

Kuwata's English is supposed to be very respectable. That he might be a good coach, I don't dispute. That, if he were a coach over here, it would be easier for us to attract Japanese players, is an EXCELLENT POINT, which I hadn't considered.

Nevertheless, he rejected NH's offer (whatever that offer was). And I've heard (and I think Dejan has also reported) that Kuwata wants to manage in Japan. He was a premier player in Japan from the mid 80's through to about 2002 (when he blew his arm out). He'll be a manager over there, mark my words. And for a Japanese, to manage in his own country is a big deal. Heck, even Bobby Valentine prefers to manage over there.

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 11:27 PM

"All he can say is no."

Again, we did ask. However, we could always ask again. As you always point out, all he can do is say "no".

I think what NH had in mind, though, was something along the lines of rookie league, single low or high A ball coaching. I doubt the Pirates would hand Kuwata the keys to the major league car. That WOULD be a feather in Kuwata's cap. But since he wouldn't be in line for that, he'll stick with Japanese pro ball where he will be managing much sooner.

honus wags wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 11:32 PM

I have been away in the real world earning my keep teaching the left coasts next generation of architects. last year's class as a going away present gave me a pair of field box seats to the bucs v pods on saturday- the 3-2 loss. I started the season with high hopes of .500, saw the slow motion midseason implosion, and wondered for a minute or two if I really wanted to pack a car, get a hotel, buy and $9 beer and watch a possible loss in sd. but I went. great seats behind the pods dugout. beautiful day and nite. probably over 100 pirate fans about the section unafraid to reveal their affiliation - I was shocked.

seeing the guys out there close up in batting practice- jack cutting up with some pitchers in the outfield about 40 feet from me, salas obviously loving every minute of life with nyjer in his outfield group, watching ronnie paulino go again and again into the cage. it was awesome. barthmaier's poise after getting lit up in the first; the hitters had chances to win it. I could see for myself in all its realness, apart from sadass gameday, gawdawful internet radio broadcasts and the occasional dodger v pirates game I see on cable. I really enjoyed the game, seeing the TEAM even knowing it was meaningless, except for the seeing them in person. live. like music, always better live.

hard to follow the bucs from afar like others have posted, but a big thanks to DK for keeping it real and the pitchfork wielders, assorted avatars, and beloved bloggerbuds who blog like PIRATES for a great year on the site. I'll watch from afar the next months due to some necessary writing, and be back after hibernating, hoping to see dirt doug and jack again, a rested freddy, any laroche that can hit in april, an outfield that can only give us some rebound with some of the late season theatrics [thanks steve pearce!], a nate and doumit repeat, and pitchers that work fast, change speeds and throw STRIKES.

PI Stingray wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 11:33 PM

@BK; Since Kuwata turned down the Pirates'  offers of three positions (coaching, scouting & job in the minors) to return to Japan, I would have to think he would not reconsider (Japanese usually don't change their minds). That does not mean that he wouldn't help the team if he was asked to persuade a Japanese F/A to sign with the Bucs....

www.baseball-reference.com/.../Masumi_Kuwata

(last sentence under "To the USA"

BillyKidd wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 11:37 PM

How big would it be if he were the first APAC player to actually coach in the MLB...I think it might be bigger..Imagine the endorsement deals he could parlay this into and the PR would be bigger than any player. I do not know haow many APAC players are here but there are no coaches to my knowledge....Someone go wake up JAL...we need some information researched.

JL you are probably right but I think it is worth the time and maybe a visit over some Sake or Sapporo and Sushi to find out. Been to Japan several times if FC is looking for volunteers..he can call me anytime.

tedkin43 wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 11:40 PM

Hmmmm The latest posts are all for Oct1 in the AM while it is 11:39 PM here in Fla, Sept 30. I know my biological clock is all mesed up, but I didn't think it was contagious, LOL

DK, thanks for all the hard work and time and effort. You must truly love your job.

Baywatch, thanks for saying what I have been dying to say to NuttjobHostage. His act grew very old very fast.

NuttjobHostage, would Bob Nutting still be a "vile vermin" if he suddenly spent $100 million in payroll to satisfy your apparent belief that "if it costs a lot it's gotta be good"?

As for pitching coach, why not Bob Walk? He talks a good game in the booth, why not see if he can translate it to the field?

To all, keep the faith. I think these guys are on the right track, but it isn't going to happen overnight. I just hope i live long enough to see it.

Beat 'Em Bucs !!

BillyKidd wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Tue, Sep 30 2008 11:49 PM

@PI--Nice, thanks for the great info.:)  Someone just needs to ask his old agent to see if there is any interest in listening..1 year removed, you never know. If he seems the slightest bit interested get NH on the next Nippon Airlines (JAL) flight into Tokyo. Again all he can say is Thank you but no.  

You are probably right, a very proud and stubborn (I mean that with the greatest respect) people. Some of my fondest memories of all of my international trips have been to the APAC countries, islands.

BillyKidd wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Wed, Oct 1 2008 12:10 AM

All--it has been great getting back intothe swing of things this evening but I gotta drop off and get back to work. I will try to check in every few hours till morning and then jump back in till about noon. As usual thank you all for making this the best blog. See ya in a few.

Forbes Field Memories wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Wed, Oct 1 2008 12:11 AM

@Jersey:  Thanx for the marvelous Clemente 3000th hit piece!!!!  I couldn't tell you when I last heard Bob & Nellie's voices - very powerful feeling and bringing back old memories.

I also remember that Jon Matlack (sp?) was a real thorn in the Pirates' side for a while when he was with the Mets.

Thanx again!!!

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Wed, Oct 1 2008 12:17 AM

I'm becoming more and more enamored with your point about getting a Japanese coach over here, because it would then attract active players. I'd have to say that Japan plays the best baseball outside of the U.S. (though the tiny Dominican Republic is absolutely phenomenal in the number of first rate players they turn out). Japan, of course, won the whole shebang at the inaugural World Baseball Series Classic, the year before last ( though our minor leaguers beat their very best TWICE at the just completed Olympics --HAH!) Anyway, Ichiro went to the Mariners because he had a level of comfort knowing that the team ownership is Japanese. The Japanese think like that. If we were to have a Japanese instructor or two in our system, it would be a well needed leg up for our organization when it came to recruiting.

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Wed, Oct 1 2008 1:15 AM

Just read the Q & A between Colin Dunlap and Pedro Alvarez.

Boy, Boras sure has his hooks into that kid. Pedro says he was treated like a son, that Boras stood by Pedro's every decision, blah, blah, blah...  He pulled Pedro's strings and made Pedro feel like he was in charge. I wonder if Pedro knows just how close he came to getting nothing and ending up in limbo for a year? It's very telling that when Colin tries to ask Pedro about his saying "I agree" over the phone to NH, Pedro refuses to answer the question.  

I'm not holding a grudge against Pedro. But I'd like him to be asked the same questions again when he's about 30 years old and has a more adult perspective on the entire ordeal. I wouldn't be surprised if, like Alex Rodriguez, he publically calls out Boras for his selfish machinations.

PI Stingray wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Wed, Oct 1 2008 1:24 AM

@JL; Ref a Japanese pitching coach - Why not? The Japanese have given American managers every opportunity to work in their leagues (and be somewhat successful), so why can't a Japanese pitching coach succeed in MLB? Pitching is pitching, regardless of the league. I knowit probably is a very long shot, but whose to say it won't happen? Kuwata would have made sense too, since he somewhat knows the Pirates organization and is familiar with many of their pitchers. He has also gotten the respect of many current Buc hurlers......just a thought!

JL wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Wed, Oct 1 2008 1:59 AM

I'm with ya, PI.

Baywatch wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Wed, Oct 1 2008 3:48 AM

JL - "Just read the Q & A between Colin Dunlap and Pedro Alvarez. Boy, Boras sure has his hooks into that kid. Pedro says he was treated like a son ..."

I've already mentioned that I'm having to resist the temptation to analyze Pedro's responses to the press so far, thinking he sounds pretty superficial on most things ... basically saying the same things over and over, like "hard work and doing the best I can" will answer everything (kind of reminds me a little of Peter Sellers in "Being There," if anyone saw that and knows what I mean).

BUT, I found it very interesting that in today's interview, the first personal thing he had to say was about Boras "treating me like a son." I don't quite know what to make of that.

emoneypitt wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Wed, Oct 1 2008 4:10 AM

A few parting shots from my end before we all slumber off for the Winter, save for that brief Indian Summer known as the Winter Meetings:

Dejan, thanks for all of your hard work. Sure, many others are responsible for making this blog happen but you're the heart and soul of it and have brought at least one facet of Pirates baseball up to speed in the 21st century. Enjoy a well deserved break :)

Thanks to Paul Meyer for being a super sub on here when Dejan needed a breather. In many ways, 2008 was quite more active than most with Pirates news compared to recent years.

I wasn't a regular everyday contributor to the blog but special thanks to all those on here that I saw bolgging away everyday to make this blog such a success that the site removed theTotal Comments number from the listing of all the blogs as to not totally embarass the other blogs ;) It was a privledge to see so many other intelligent perspectives on the team that we all love and I'm already looking forward to the 2009 Hap Cap contest.

See you all soon.

emoneypitt wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Wed, Oct 1 2008 4:17 AM

One important edit:

I forgot that Colin Dunlap had the occasional spot start in the rotation as well. Kudos to him also.

NuttingHostage wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Wed, Oct 1 2008 6:25 AM

Jal,

"Nutting--the only question I have is whether the Pirates signed less due to money or poor picks.  With a history of injured pitchers in their past I thought selecting an injured pitcher with the #2 pick was inexcusable."

Good question. - I don't know if we will ever know that but at the end of the day I will leave it at this.....

I think this past seasons draft was better than those of previous years under Littlefield and a step in the right directions.

But, they still need to do better. Regardless of whether it was money, or poor picks, they need to execute a more effective draft and signing process in the future.  

jersey joe wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Wed, Oct 1 2008 6:27 AM

I think we all will get the same take on Pedro's interview.  Dunlap could have passed right over that topic since it was the first interview and of course you knowwhy.  Thanks for pinning him there because this is another one pf those cases where more is learnt from what was not said.

If pedro believes what he said then he is in personal trouble.

Lets just hope he is smart enough to be just being quite until he gets ssettled.

whos whoming whom here

He is right though, we will judge him on his play and give him every chance to become who he says he want to be.

Lets remember this:  His college coach did say Pedro will be well liked in pgh..

I have an anti boris remebdy for Pedro.  the bloggers should send clip after clip of Roberto doing or saying something to give him first hand of how and why we loved Roberto so much and finally a switch will go on and he will say to himself. hey I love Roberto and I know Roberto would not love scott.

NuttingHostage wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Wed, Oct 1 2008 6:28 AM

Bizrow,

I've read some reports on other websites and blogs that the Bucs and Schleppers were $400K apart and that is why he wasn't signed.

I don't know if that is true or not, but if it is......to me, if they drafted him at # 2, it was penny wise and pound foolish to not sign him over $400K.

So now the guys signs on with an Independent league team for a year.

Boy the Bucs sure taught him a lesson.

NuttingHostage wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Wed, Oct 1 2008 6:32 AM

Matt the Scat, the Original # 36,

I don't think I'm negative in my outlook on the Pirates. - Just brutally honest. - If Nutting and friends had the first dang clue on how to run a half way respectable baseball franchise, there would be no reason for me or anyone else to comment on it.

I simply comment on what I see. - If they performed their jobs more effectively, my comments would reflect that positive direction.

Or in other words......just callin' 'em as I see 'em.

jersey joe wrote re: A few final orders of business
on Wed, Oct 1 2008 6:32 AM

That just gave me another idea.  So many things came out of the Gunners mouth that there must be reels of his sayings.

Next tyear is the first real year for the management team so A little retro gimmick.  It will take a big heart from the announcers, I dont't think steve or Bob if he is not out in the dugout to have prerecorded snipits of the gunners sayings ready for play and when something is done, hit the button..