Morning links: Pirates, Alvarez agree to terms on revised contract

Too bad they could not have worked that out in time for the game today.  They could have handed out the Alvarez baseball cards with the magnetic schedule.  

This is good news!

Go Bucs!

At least they got this taken care of before your well deserved vacation.  

Seems like such a waste of several months.  Alvarez lost out on valuable playing time in the minors.  Here we are 3 1/2 months after the June 5th draft.  Not only that, he lost his chance to be introduced to the city while the team was at home and fans in the stands.  Today would have been a great day to throw out the first pitch.

zzzzzzz

who cares

91 losses

91 losses

16 straight losing seasons

16 straight losing seasons

yawn, wake me when the team moves

Declining attendance is the world's biggest DUH! Having 16 straight losing seasons will have a negative impact.

Forbes,

What's Florida's excuse then?  Two cities with great ball clubs and both teams are in the bottom 5 in total and average attendance.  

DK - Was there any kind of film production done of the post-game intermingling of players and fans? I'd love to see something like that ... YouTube or otherwise.

Paul Alexander's Man Tan - For you, my friend ... www.youtube.com/watch

bucsfancents80:

Technically, ForbesFielder made the statement that poor records will result in poor attendance.  That statement does not logically imply that good records result in good attendance.

And you have to be happy about this deal getting done.  It's unfortunate that the perception will be that the Pirates gave into Boras's demands, since the amount of guaranteed money is higher, but in reality the deal is about a wash and it's more likely that Boras was the one who gave in.

Hopefully Pedro actually shows up for his physical this time.

Re. Attendance in Florida: In Tampa it has to be due in part to the horror that is indoor baseball. Least enjoyable game I ever attended! Also, the Rays have ZERO tradition. Relatively young team that was horrible did little to really establish a fan base. Through in the fact that so many Floridans are really from other parts of the country and still loyal to THEIR hometown teams, it isn't much of a surprise at all. Although you would expect a bit of a bandwagon effect in Tampa this year. What did the Marlins draw in their World Series years?

So the Pirates caved.  Boras got what he wanted.  Sigh.

So... Boras wins. We Pirates fans, don't necessarily lose, though. Alvarez misses getting a jump on playing experience, but that's more than made up for by getting a far superior contract. The Regime clearly blinked. But I'm going to give them credit for swallowing their pride and realizing that by blinking, but getting Alvarez signed, they did better than to continue to have all parties flap in the wind. Again, though, Boras wins. And since this got resolved about a month after it got started, nobody will even remember how selfish and reckless Boras was, regarding his client. Ol' Scott's rep as an agent that delivers remains intact.

ForbesFielder is wrong when he belittles Doug Mientkiewicz. But he is DEAD ON in pointing the finger at all the losing seasons to blame for declining attendance. Pittsburgh might not be able to get 3 mil fans like the Dodgers or Yankees. But surely we can get over 2 mil+  when (IF) the Bucs ever start to win again.

this team can make a serious push for 120 losses next season

if the right pieces are put in place again like Ian Snell, Zach Duke, Tom Gorzo, Jon Van Ben Scoten, then this team will be on record watch all season

Maybe because Boras was right, and the Pirates did NOT reach agreement with Pedro until after the deadline. At that point, it is far less damaging to restructure the deal and get Alavarez with the team than to go through the protracted arbitration process with its uncertain outcome.

Baywatch,

Great clip for the Tin Man! (He, born without a heart.)

>>>What's Florida's excuse then?  Two cities with great ball clubs and both teams are in the bottom 5 in total and average attendance.<<<

I'm not talking about anyone else's attendance because I don't know market conditions in other places.

All I'm saying is no one should be surprised that the Pirates sell less tickets when they have 16 straight losing seasons. To me it's an absolute non-issue. Bad product = fewer customers. Pretty basic.

Once again, Dejan elicits a great quote, this time from Nate McClouth. Talking about wanting what the Penguins have. Having a winning team that fans back with such an intensity that "other teams fear coming here."

"But that's up to us (the players)", he concludes.

@PAMT--<yawn, wake me when the team moves>

As long as you promise to stay asleep we will promise to wake you when they move...Now go on go to sleep.

@Forbes--there has been much talked about thoughts that the local economy is driven by those on fixed incomes in FL. Particularly St. Pete. You have Senior Citizens that want to spend their entertainment dollars on other things. With the so-called weakening enconomy most of these post depression war babies grew up saving and not spending so as not to fall into the trap thier parents did. I am not saying this is true it is what has been mentioned and talked about in the FL papers and on the sports talk shows, The Rays are not Tampa's team but actually reside in St. Pete the extreme largest portion of the population is sr. citizens and is viewd by  those that live in Tampa not worth the trip or the effort...Move the team across the bridge and attendance goes through the roof as proven by the support of the NHL and NFL teams

And here I was thinking we would not have much to talk about today....Thanks DK and SB/PA. This will be a very busy blog today. And with that before the nurses see the reflection of the screen eminating from my room back to bed...See everyone soon.

BK,

(I'm belly laughing) Those nurses got you by the short hairs!

It's not too hard to come up with marketing ideas.

PNC Park: Where you have a 48 percent chance of seeing the home squad win.

PNC Park: Where base path aggressiveness is being thrown out at home, not stealing bases.

The Pittsburgh Pirates: Above .500 in one run games

PNC Park: At least we have Primanti Bros.

PNC Park: Where there is a 1 in 5 chance Paul Maholm is pitching today.

If the Pirates give up 4 or more runs in the first inning, redeem your ticket at Eat-N-Park for a free Smiley cookie.

Well well well, We have not heard too much from the RonD crouwd lately, big news for the Bucs and they naysayers comeout fast.

Baywatch, we could not have said it better.

I see this as just the opposite, I say Boris caved.  DK already pointed out that in the end the money will work out to be the same amount.  So he can make a little more the sooner he gets to the big leagues, big dweal there.

This is how it worked:  we signed perdo, at the midnight hour--song please baywatch,  after boris caved, boris then orchatrated this mess by a call to someone, now perdo signs before this goes to another hearing, boris caved again.

look at it from this point of view, the pirates position had no reason to change they did not biring the action and they had MLB on their side in this and we know it was about breaking the back of MLB so the Bucs had to stand pat they have precedent.

once it was shown this was going to drag out alverez is the biggest loser possible, he is thetalent in question--the pirates are here and will be here  next year-- pedro is nowheres and will not be anywheres next year if he does not sign.  the writing was on the wall along-- as DK stated with the rework he looses interest and ends up making the same.  Many pointed thisout earlier the longer he does not sign the less he can make because of his losses..

even if the pirates gave him a few extra dollars that can be hey perdo we know you are a young guy with an intimindating agent who gave you poor advice from the start and got you into the mess and we want to show you we will not hold that against you.  another smart move by FC and NH to smooth his entrance to the organization.

It looks like NH and FC blinked on the surface, however no one knows in what direction the arbitration hearings were proceeding. Perhaps a former colleague of FC advised him to settle now; maybe PA's father had a close call in the cab recently. It could be winter before the real truth comes out.

Bottom line - the first dinger that PA hits over the Clemente Wall will lead to a curtain call for the fans.

Billy, you have to be filling good this Am, funny.

Boris wanted action to alter the drafdt esp. the deadline.  It is stated that this will most likely end the arbitration meeting.  when that does occur, the boris attempt is quashed for this year.

from my above comment the Bucs smoothd relations with pedro and pedfro will be a buc the only person who did not get what he wanted is boris.

If the MLBPA filed a grievance for negotiating a couple of minutes past midnight on August 15th, they will file suit in federal court and demand the death penalty for negotiating into September!  (LOL).  Now that Pedro has a MLB contract, they can legally represent him since he is now a member of that fine upstanding organization.....  

This has nothing to do with anything recently discussed, but the following thoughts just coursed through my loony mind:

Last year Ryan Doumit started off red-hot, but faded a little during the summer. This year he started off red-hot, and if anything, is finishing even stronger than he started. If he does this again next year, and gets 30+ home runs (which means he also sail over 100 RBI), then he's starting to approach Mike Piazza territory (and Ryan has a better arm and runs faster). It was 10 years ago that Piazza signed a 7 year $91 mil contract with the Mets.

We need to lock up Doumit while we can. If we wait, and Ryan takes the next step, it'll be too late. Then, only the East Coast / West Coast teams will have the money to sign Ryan. (I know, I know, we went through this with the last good catcher we had, and it didn't work out. But Kendall notwithstanding, Ryan is known entity and a surer shot than, say,  Pedro Alvarez is yet. And we just gave Alvarez more than $6 mil. just to get his autograph.)

Since the Bucs can't sit back like the Yanks and Red Sox and just issue checks for the cream of the crop talent out there, they need to be agressively smart and take calculated risks in advance,  in order to keep down costs.

We need to lock up Doumit.  What say you all?

Pedro signing is an indication he does not want representation any more with this matter.  he has chosen to move his career along.  

I would think that the original filing and his current status are not interchangable, they are arguing that he had no right to sign so how can they represent him on a matter they file that he had no right to further negotiate.

So they are going to go to court to end a contract no sense because pedro is not going to gop back, he will look like an idiot and no one will give his words any crediable truth to.

@JL; In total agreement to locking up Doumit. He has been pretty consistant in a year that has seen him play only at catcher and a whole lot more to boot. You can't really fault him for the pitching woes either, as it seems no matter who is catching, the pitching is pretty much the same.....And on this PA "signing", I say let bygones be bygones and get this kid to work ASAP!!!

Is there anyone who could explain the rationale behind this being a settlement of the Alvarez situation: Boras and the players' union file a complaint claiming that Alvarez's deal with the Pirates is invalid because it was agreed to two minutes after the August 15th midnight deadline and it's rectified by another deal agreed to five WEEKS after the deadline?!

DK please tell me this isn't over an the arbitrator hearing the grievance can still rule the original deal is valid or not and Alvarez gets sent back into next year's draft after a year off where he can be drafted ten and sign for a million dollars.

If this stands Pedro Alvarez has just become the MLB play I hate the most and nothing he does on the field will keep me from booing him every time he steps on the field.

I reacted to reading this Alvarez news with the same question UncleDirtNap poses.

This makes no sense.

Boras and the Union file a grievance because the original deal allegedly was reached 2 minutes after the 12:00 deadline.

Now, they want to resolve the situation with a new agreement reached 5 weeks after the deadline?

I want Alvarez to be a Pirate as much as anybody but there is no way an agreement reached 5 weeks after the deadline should stand. - To me that sets a precedent to could be extremely dangerous in future drafts.

Plus, it gives Boras exactly what he wanted, the ability to renege on an agreement and renegotiate. Not to mention the fact that he took exception to an agreement that was 2 minutes too late but finds one 5 weeks too late better?

MLB is a joke.

PI, my thoughts exactly and why I saidd several times there that the pirates had obviously smoothd things over.

Some of us though ha ha, will never let that happen.

@Baywatch - nice comeback - Please change your avatar...

@JL - Signing Doumit is a no brainer, then again it seems management has no brain.

The ranters are back, where have they been?  Gee this should be good for a few days.

PA - What the heck, How could we negotiate now.  The deadline is way past. Did the union ok this?  What's the story? How can you revise a contract that is not a contract to begin with?  Or at least that was the contention anyway.

Did all agree that they all were in the wrong about this whole negotiating process? So what is the fallout for MLB and the Union?  Does the hearings stop?  Can it stop?

Much much more to learn about what is going on.

As much as I wanted to have PA signed sealed and delivered at the dealine this is not endearing me to PA, Boras, management, MLB or the Union. This should have been allowed to play out and have them all take their lumps to get this processed fixed.  If not, does it happen again?  With Boras in the mix you bet it will.  Did MLB and the Union want to avoid any issues until the next contract between the two?

PA should have been made to live with whatever decision was handed down. If he agreed to the contract he should have shown up in the first place. End of story!  

Just remember no matter what happens now even if he becomes a major league player as soon as he can he will be gone.  Between what this management group has shown and what Boras will demand along with who knows what PA will do or want at that given time.  I will have a hard time believing anything he says or does.

As soon as thing went hirewire it was over for any goodness to come out of this for all involved.  So we paid a little more (depends on how you want to interpet the (REVISED no) contract and he gets the higer amount on all draftees, and to top it off a major league contract.  Boras gets most of what he wanted and we get what is now a tainted player in the fold for the losing buccos and the losing management.  Gee hope they raise prices next year, why you ask, well we had a losing season and now they will need to make up money to pay PA for the short couple of years he will be with the bucs.  We pay, train and either trade or lose him faster than you can say 90 loses next year.

Will I root for he Pirates you bet.  Am I now happy to see PA no!  I will enjoy any wins he helps bring to our beloved team.  I will not go out of my way to support him in any way.  He better bring one hell of alot and fast to the majors. If not they should have kept him on the suspended list and held him back like he held the team back this year and next.  This whole thing stinks to high heaven. I am one to believe that we need to shut baseball down and get a cap and fix the draft before baseball goes completely down the drain. At least for the majority of the teams.  You will still have the big wigs with deep pockets and the rich look at me I am at agame crowd in the larger markets.  But us little people who support and love the game  are being phased out.

Now that I have all that off my chest I will look forward to see what you all have to say.

The Pirates didn't sign Alvarez late; they signed him early for the 2009 draft.

I do not think Boras' had ANYTHING to do with Alvarez finally accepting-I think this is a 100% Pedro deal. There is no way that Boras gives up on his quest to restructure the MLB draft to his liking so easily-I think Pedro finally said, enough is enough, than Boras tried to work out a deal that was a bit higher than Posey's to simply 'save face'. I welcome Pedro with open arms & cannot wait until we weed out one of the LaRoches.

Ole....Ole Ole Ole.......Ole Ole

:)

I don't think that Boras necessarily won here. Al;though he got his player a major league contract, he basically brokered a deal that rearranged the the pay schedule. I think that the pirates are letting him save some face because, surprise, the final total of the contract is just a little more than the rest and he can say that he still gets his players the best deals. I don't know if PA feels that this was a good process for him, but SB gets to hold onto his #1 agency title.

I love Nate's comments and perspective on things - and pretty accurate on the comparison to the Pens.  Heck, wasn't it just two years ago they were passing out coffee and hot chocolate while selling discount tickets college students to fill up the stands?

As for the negative post crowd - on occassion I'd say I don't fully disagree with you guys, but I've got to take major issue with one thing.  CC - You've brought up many times how you feel we're being taken advantage of by the Nuttings, the Nuttings are evil, we're fantasy GM's, etc.  And yet, you also seem to be trying to get us to feel sorry for you that your a season ticket holder.  I don't feel bad for you.  You don't like the way the team is run?  You don't like the owners?  STAY HOME.  Obviously, you've got the money to go to a lot of games (money you're giving to those evil Nuttings, oooooh).  I went to the game by myself yesterday because in the current economy I couldn't afford to bring my kids, but they wanted me to go.  I got to five games this year - two of which were gifts, because I love this team, but like many people, I am struggling to make ends meet on a daily basis.  If you've got so much hate for the ownership and the roster, stop going, stop feeding the beast with your money.  Hey, you've got tickets, you've got a right to voice your opinion on the team and its effort, but as long as you're paying for those season tickets, don't bash the greed of the ownership, because you're not using the one tool you have to show you object to them - staying home and not giving them your money.  And don't try to belittle those of us who gather here to enjoy some comraderie as we watch/listen/follow our beloved team "for free."  Many of us would give almost anything for the opportunity to go to as many games as you do, but that doesn't make us lesser fans, or you any better of one.

As I said in my initial post, NONE OF US will EVER KNOW what went on in the negotiations, and IT DOESN'T MATTER! PA will be a Pirate, and that makes a CONTENDING team more likely (but certainly not guaranteed). JHadar had a long post early in the weekend, expressing better than I did, the wonders of THE GAME!  Grandchildren & I had a great time at PNC Sept 14 (and we even saw a win)! But as Nate notes in today's story, it will be REALLY great when they win more often.

I'd like to think that Pedro's family may have made a push to get this deal done, but they probably had nothing to do with it. Scott Boras did exactly what he set out to do. He renegotiated a contract after the deadline. This is an incredible feather in his hat. I don't think this was ever about the terms of the contract. Boras just wanted to say he was the only agent that could renegotiate a deal after the 12:00 AM deadline.

@UncleDirtNap

"If this stands Pedro Alvarez has just become the MLB play I hate the most and nothing he does on the field will keep me from booing him every time he steps on the field."

Sorry you feel that way. PA may be a good kid, and you may be standing all alone as you are booing.

Give it a chance, really. Just give it a chance. Let him stink up the place first. If he plays well, he should receive our support. If he doesn't live up to the contract, then let him have it.

I want to cheer.

Ron, PamT, Hostage, Chris, and friends -- welcome back to the blog.  We've missed you.  Not much to do around here but play fantasy GM, have uninteresting personal conversations and make stabs at trying to be funny.  

I see your point of view has shifted from "they'll never sign Alvarez, because they're crooked and cheap and Boras is way smarter than they are" to "they signed Alvarez because they're crooked and cheap and Boras is way smarter than they are."  

Don't go away, it should a busy few days.

Comeon--lighten up on Ron, PamT, Hostage, Chris--some people are just natural curmudgeons.  Look into the future:

Pirates win 99 games--PamT posts-HaHaHaHa--couldn't even win 100  X years and counting from last time they won 100

Pirates win World Series 4 games to 3 and one of them posts-Lousy team couldn't sweep

Pirates win Series 4-0 and one of them posts-How bad can this team get--they only outscored the Red Sox by 6 runs in the series

Get the picture--some people glory in being miserable--it is in their nature and they can't help themselves.

I don't believe anyone understands the art of negotiation.  This is the business of the business and my belief is that any one of us would be gratified to have SB represent us in negotiating our salaries.  

Furthermore, there may be an extenuating circumstance that forced SB, albeit gladly, to file the grievance.  There is no way this deal is done without his involvement.  He is doing what is in Alvarez' best interest.

It appears both sides save face, which is good for everyone.

If you want to talk disparities, don't hammer SB.  Explain why it is only North Americans are drafted.  When Boston pays 60 million for the right to negotiate with DiceK and spends another 60 million to sign him - I find that not in the best interest of baseball.  Either every one is draft eligible or every one is a free agent.

As for me personally, if I had the given ability, I'd prefer to be a free agent and sign with whom I choose.  In your heart of hearts do you think Alvarez would choose to play with a team with a history of 16 consecutive years of losing, not paying its top players and not interested in winning or do you think he'd rather play for the Mets or Yankees?

The new regime has one thing right...500 baseball is not acceptable.  For the most part, players want to be part of something special, just like we want the Pirates to do something special.

Be glad that Alvarez appears to be a step in the right direction and to that, only time will tell.

"Give it a chance, really. Just give it a chance.'

He had his chance, to do the right thing and he blew it.  I was thrilled with the talent and potential he represented when they drafted him but it means nothing to me now.  He's a greedy punk and I wish for nothing but the worst for him in his career.  I hope and will pray he flames out spectacularly and never plays a day in the majors. *spit* on Pedro Alvarez.

To those who suggest that Pedro or his family may have been the party that insisted this all come to an end: that would be interesting. Up or down, I would like to find out about that. I'm sure details will be coming from Dejan as he learns more.

Boras still comes out smellin' like roses.

As for  AllArmy-Retired's point that if missing the deadline by a few minutes is grievable to the player's union, how can all this, one month later, not be? --I have no good answer. But we might be aloud to presume that:  A) Boras knows what he is doing, B) the MLBPA won't continue to stand on principle now that their favorite marauder got what he wanted, or 3) this resolution really did come at the behest of the Alvarez's, and may still blow up yet, because the MLBPA and Boras still have an interest in setting off fireworks rather than getting this kid signed and on his way.

Anyways else excited to see the Pirates draft another Boras client next year?

Front office stepped up to the plate and delivered. Where's the naysayers? Huh????

WE WILL.

Agitator,

You make a number of points to at which I find myself nodding. But I can't concur with this one: "..my belief is that any one of us would be gratified to have SB represent us in negotiating our salaries. "

Boras could easily have derailed Alvarez' career during this game of chicken. (LIkewise, his Kansas City client.)  Boras didn't honor his word (or at least have his client honor his word).  And Boras is the two-faced one who dropped the dime on us immediately after getting off the phone with Huntington back on that fateful day.

Boras is a sleazeball and treating others the way he does is just not worth it just to pick up every last penny out of the gutter.

@UncleDirtNap - Don't you want whats best for the Pirates, which would be PA playing well and living up to his potential? You are obviously not a true fan.

As Pirates fans, the only thing we should focus on is that Alvaraz is signed and will hopefully be playing in Arizona or Hawaii this off season.    That will make this winter a bit more interesting.  

How much the Pirates paid or re-negotiated at this pont is inconsequential.  They paid up, they signed him, that is all that matters.  

The challenge of victory

Is to take some time

To relish it

Before

We are drawn into

The next moments

Battle

                                   c  1995

Good Morning to all

I hope the club does draft another Boras client next year, no sense in backing down now. I also believe that it wasn't the money it was a MAJOR league contract that was the sticking point. That way he is a FA in 3(?) years

to the whiners, Take a day off because Billy needs to keep himself under control to pass his way out of the hospital.  

Plust the rest of us just want a day tpo think of givinfg the kid a chance and play soem allsatar baseball for the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Accross the league major stars change teams all the time, so what if pedro is here for only five years or so, lets hope those are the most productive of years for our team.  

If he plays like they say he will, he will be a cornerstone of turning this franchise around.

As Agitator noted, the draft system already limits the options of North American players ONLY.  The clubs have a HUGE advantage, compared with their relationship to Asian or Latin American players.  Why get agitated when a talented kid makes use of what leverage he has?  Yes, WE MIGHT HAVE CHOSEN DIFFERENTLY in his situation, but that's what a FREE COUNTRY is all about!

Uncle Dirt Nap and others have every right to boo, if they choose.  I'm just sad for them that they miss the magic and wonder of THE GAME!

My take regarding why the signing of a contract weeks after the deadline is OK, but signing one two minutes after the deadline is wrong is this: by re-negotiating, the Boras/Alvarez camp is saying "The first deal was legit."  Players re-negotiate contracts all the time, this just happens to be five weeks after the original was agreed to.  

Remember, the union's grievance supposedly does not name any particular player (including Alvarez).  The resolution of the grievance will probably at this point have little to do with the Pirates, but might have more bearing on future drafts.

I was a little sad to see the Pirates cave in to PA, but after seeing how Andy LaRoche, and many of the other recent acquisitions have played, I can understand the Buccos' desperation to get a legitimate player in their system.

"Don't you want whats best for the Pirates"

What's best for the Pirates is for the arbitrator to rule that a contract agreed to five weeks after a deadline can't be valid if one agreed to two minutes after the dead line isn't and if the deadline means anything then neither contract is valid so Alvarez should be kicked back into next years draft and suffer the consequences of align himself with a skeavy, black heart, unethical scumbag like Scott Boras.  

This reported outcome is NOT the best thing for the Pirates because it only encourages the most underhanded and immoral agent in baseball to do something like this again and limits the any leverage the Pirates might have in future drafts and damages their position going forward no matter what Alvarez does on the field.

If the midnight night deadline wasn't violated then the first contract MUST stand and if was then neither contract is valid and Boras's client can go play in an independent league and take his chance in next year's draft and any other resolution harms the Pirates and other clubs in future negotiations more than PA's play helps them.

"I'm just sad for them that they miss the magic and wonder of THE GAME!"

We're not missing it, it's being stolen and from usa and stamped out by malevolent and evil to their core vipers like Scott Boras and Pedro Alvarez.

Bleary,

an example of a losing team with increased attendance:  Detroit.  12 under .500, going to draw a record total attendance of well over 3 million.  There may be more examples, but letting it drop at that.  A losing, 4th place  team finishing in the top 8.  This team formerly was in the bottom third in attendance for most of this decade.  In fact, we drew more fans in 2003 than Detroit.  

@UncleDirtNap - Maybe the situation is not the best thing for the Pirates, but PA not playing well would be the worst thing for the Pirates. Get a clue and go back into hiding.

@UncleDirtNap

While your booing, I'll be sitting behind you doing the best I can to drown you out with my cheers.

You seem to know a lot about everything that went on behind closed doors. So it was PA that was orcastrating events. not MLBPA and/or SB. Can you let us in on any other tidbits of info. Any other players that we need to boo before they ever play a game at PNC?

Fine, spend your hard earned money to boo a player that earned $6.355 million over 4 years (thats $355,000 more spread over 4 years). A man named Manny turned down $20 million a year from the Red Sox.

PA will average $88,750 more with this contract than the origional. That is certainly worth going completely over the top and hating the man forever. You are right.......... Booooooooooooo!!!!!!!!.....Boooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!

How is this "Big News"?  This kid is still unproven, the rest of the team still stinks, and there is no indication anything will improve until 2010 at the EARLIEST.

I was there yesterday, and this team provides 0 (read ZERO) entertainment value.  Another sleepwalking performance by a bunch of postal workers mailing it in.

My renewal of a ticket package is in serious jeopardy.

the boo birds will be with us til they fly south.

Now, lets get back to the future: our whole strategy for our future linups just changed dramatically.

We now do not look for a power third basman, we wait it out somehow the force will be with us until pedro is in pgh.

We count Jack will be back unless we get to choose which player from a tram trying to get him.  So he is  back.

All the pros of how well Ryan has held up mean nothing in terms of years doing it.  I take that back if he is going to spend the winter with manny, saw him at the game yesterday the line was too long for me to wait with the grandkids, he is still smiling.

with stops at spanky's.  He is showing soem improvement with his throws, still needs glove work.  If he plays first he plays longer and with less bodily stress.

I am a big fan of freddy's and feel he has been let down a little for starting two years out with injuries and playing hurt through them.  That eye thing, that is the scariest of all.

That is one more decision we do not have to make until spring.

keep ryan where he is move moss to first we need bats out of the gate.

whew, an old latin proverb is now in order for FCand NH,  "what was I to do"

@Indiana--PA will not be a FA in 3 years--it arbitration that kicks in after 3 years--6 years to FA.  A major league contract means that he has to be on the 40 man roster.  That 3 and 6 year window only applies the time spent on the 25 man roster.

@Joggin George -  " ... maybe PA's father had a close call in the cab recently. It could be winter before the real truth comes out. Bottom line - the first dinger that PA hits over the Clemente Wall will lead to a curtain call for the fans."

Joggin, I say you're probably on target about Alvy's father having a close call in that cab ... whatever the case, I trust he'll be on the dotted line soon, and PEDRO, if you're reading this, no hard feelings, man, we're just tickled you'll be on board soon, and like Joggin' says, once we see that beautiful swing lace one over the Clemente Wall ... you'll have the chicks and all of us in your corner!

Just don't totally forget about us regular fans when the chicks come runnin' out ... and be careful who you ask to run get you a Sprite ... it might be a PG beat writer!

Thanks for the info JAL, but it makes my point the money did not matter as much as the contract status it will be sooner for the big bucks now he has a major contract

Wow.I'm a Packer fan.Iwent through all this negativity crap when they got rid of Favre.Iread negative posts for 3-4 weeks.Some people even changed user names to post more hate.But you know what?The true fans showed their colors.The negative posters left for the Jets or just stopped complaining.I know everyone has their opinion,but it just seems easier if they either acquiece or find a new team.We never heard much from some posters,till this happened.To me I'm not exactly overjoyed so much as relieved.I can remember the backlash when Mickey Mantle raised the ire of fans when he became the 1st $100,00 player.

    I'm just looking into the future when PA and Tabata will club 30-40 homers.I will be willing to bet Domuit sign 3-4 contracts.Some or most of the pitchers come to camp in better shape this spring and who knows,Hoss and Lil Joe hit from the start.If the Bucs can have a good start they will sell tickets for later in the season.More money means the ability to keep players and sign free agents.They will not break .500 next season,but I have been a fan since 1961 and will continue.Not to say I will always be happy about the results,but happy to be a fan

As much as I'd like to see a final word about Álvarez's situation, I am cautious about evaluating it for the information that has been leaked. There just remains too much to be known.

But it seems like good news. It really seems.

Goooooood Morning PBC Bloggers (in my best Adrain Cronauer voice)

www.youtube.com/watch

Back home and firmly seated in my favorite office chair with a fresh cup of coffee. Ready to jump into the Fray of the Day...

Let's get one thing straight here before we go any further (in my worthless opinion). We have hammered SB fro here to eternity about this PA issue, and has pretty much deserved it he is a angent with seemingly no morals and everything else that has been stated in this blog and elsewhere across the nation. But that being said, if anyone of us or our children were to have the talent at whatever we do to be represented by an agent and you were approached by SB, if anyone here saya they would not utilize his services, 1 You are a liar. 2, You are nuts.

This one man with a young kid from Brooklyn took on Bud and the MLB,  got the strongest of all sports unions to file a grievance (which it clearly had no reason or right to do since PA was not under contract) Got the MLB and MLBPA "to go to war" and through his actions may get the entire draft procees changed to actually benefit the agents.  

He then by virtually doing absolutley nothing (to our knowledge as of this AM and this could change as the days and weeks progress) got the PBC to renegotiate the contract for MORE value (not necessarily actual cash) than what they were asking 6.25M I think. It now looks as though the portion that involves the PBC/PA will disappear but the grievance as a whole will move to potentially change the draft system as we know it.

The man is an evil genius. I still dislike him but respect him as the absolute best at what he does. He has no peer.

Is the server slow where you are?

Curmudgeons aside, this is a positive, but highly perplexing development.  I can go with it's a valid renegotiated contract provided that the first one is valid.  

If the arbitrator rules that the first contract isn't valid, well that opens a whole different can of worms for both Hosmer and Pedro.  Pedro's value in next year's draft is not what it was in this year's.  He has no NCAA eligibility and has to take a shot with an independent league, risking injury and/or a bad season, and most likely postponing his arbitration and free agent years.  Maybe he'd wind up with Sioux City and I could drive over and see him play some night.  Not sure if I'd boo or feel sorry for the kid.

If the contract is upheld and Pedro hasn't signed, he goes on the restricted list and if the season ends, I imagine that the Bucs could re-open negotiations based on his value next year and the fact that he can't sign with anyone else ever until he comes to terms wtih us.  Hardly a good position for Mr. Scott.  

So they agreed to do about what they would have done.

But I'm guessing based on what I've read -- at least the part I can remember -- would like to know what the real rules are from this point forward.  

BK -- You made it, now don't go back (no pun intended).  Get healthy, we're pullin' for you, we're all in this together.

@BillyKidd - "The man is an evil genius. I still dislike him but respect him as the absolute best at what he does. He has no peer."

Billy - WELCOME HOME! We're all just outside your door, man, let us in ... it's party time! Actuallly, you STILL need to take it easy ...

I see what you're saying about Boras ... BUT ...

SATAN is the absolute best at what he does ... even so, I do not respect him ... even though I've done business with the guy!

Thanks guys

I think they just rebooted the server

best wishes to jack. hard to believe the brass trade him except to save some bling.

pedro- wow, what theatrics!  

fans: winners, maybe...IF he turns out to be the hype. I am cautiously optimistic

borass: obvious winner, giving the best mgt team in universe a knee to the pirate gold coin sack.

pedro: winner IF he plays well. if he does a lil laroche impersonation dancing on the mendoza line, I would get ear plugs for the game and a disguise to leave the park.

bucbrass: good grief- after the 'talk like a pirate' initial blast, it looks like they threw mlb under the bus and looked for loose change between the club seats. to pony up. I guess I don't care about the 'ugly' side of mgt IF they put  winners vs weiners out there. they gotta be hurting today though, even though we got him.

listened to vin scully try and work through the atrocious lad:sf games this weekend on car radio taking young wags to her college down the coast. vin at one point almost noted dodgers 'hapless' in scoring situations in the two games. can't see how based on the words of the silver tongue that they are making it out of the playoffs alive...if they get in.

nice to see xman on the national tube in yankee stadium last nite.

@BK

 Glad to see you out and back in the asylum! I'm with Bay,I have no respect because for all we know there had to be a TON of apprehension in the Alvarez household.I would NOT have my son go with SB because I hate drama queens and once you get into that kind of money,well let's just say that is retirement money unless you buy into that lifestyle  

  I'm glad it's reaching a conclusion and right now I don't care how it came about.I'm tired of people saying they will trade him because if those people were that smart,why did they vote for George Bush?Any way waiting to read the transcript.Now this week will have a little substance in this blog

 DK you rock buddy! This part of summer usually bites,but the blog saved it.Any chance there will be info about the fall leagues so the nega posters(you know who you are) will have a reason to raise their blood pressure?Heck sometime I enjoy their comments even if I don't agree.

Re attendance, I don't see it as a case of attendance declining because the team is bad, so much as because for 16 years there has been a ton of hot air but no signs whatsoever of improvement. When there is something substantial on which to base real hope - whether it's Tabata and Alvarez arriving in the bigs with big bats, or acquiring a free agent pitcher who can actually pitch (unlike last year's ridiculous signing of Byun Kim, or the absurd Matt Morris deal) as opposed to work for peanuts - attendance will go up. Why go to a game if there's no reasonable hope of a win? No hope even of a homer or two? No hope of an effort?

You're expected to cough up major bucks to go to a major league game. You know it's a crapshoot - ie, there's truly a 50-50 chance of a win or a loss on any given game. That's a risk you don't mind if, even if your team loses, they've given 100% in the effort to win. Because then, you've gotten your money's worth.

People supported and loved the 62 Mets precisely because even though they were inept stumblebums, they tried, they "done their damnedest" as the old saying goes, and so provided the fan their money's worth in entertainment value, even if they only won 25% of the time. The Bucs have rarely made that sort of committment to their audience over the long Streak.

The 15-8 win over the Dodgers notwithstanding (and since when is giving up 8 runs something good?), there's been little to no effort by the team for weeks now. No push from Captain Laidback (Russell). Where is this different from Tracy, Mclendon, Lamont? From Chuck Tanner's final years? It's no wonder the players love Russell. They loved Tanner when his clubhouse was a playpen for drugheads and loafers. Wouldn't you love a boss who didn't demand anything of you?

Did we sign a manager like a Leyland, a Torre, a LaRussa, a Cox? Somebody that would have at least indicated the new regime was serious about the product? No, we signed a third base coach bad enough to be fired by the Littlefield regime.

People lose patience when they see no signs that the team is serious about changing its ways. When those signs come, instead of - to use the current catchphrase - putting lipstick on the pig, attendance will go up. You don't have to have a winning season if you are going all out cojones-to-the-wall every game, with management pushing all the buttons, and the front office making a serious financial committment instead of the same old whine about not enough money to do anything other than bottomfeed (yet plenty to throw at huge-risk-low-reward guys like Morris, Randa, Burnitz, and on and on). People will always reward honest effort, but we've seen precious little of it.

(PS - my hope will, as it has every year, Spring Eternal again - but maybe not until Spring! Signing Alvarez is at least a glimmer!)

Pedro will receive a pass from me and other Bucco fans if it was he alone who approched the Pirates about getting this done.  If Boras is smart and does care about his clients he will stay quiet and support Pedro behind the scenes.  This will help soothe things between the fans.  Boras wants bragging rights when trying to lure future draft eligible players.   I'm sure MLB put some pressure on Neal and crew to resolve this as quick as possible.  Although this may harm MLB's stance on the draft, a prolonged abitration hearing could make things worse.   Time will tell the details of this agreement.  The cirumstances behind the agreement may well determine Pedro's likeability in the Burgh.  His performance will go a long way to forgetting this big hiccup in the starting of his career.

This server is slower than a Tim Wakefirld fastball.

I think I have a little more honesty, morals and fair mindness to sign with an agent like Boras.  

Sure I would like a big contract like anyone else starting their carreer but it does NOT mean I have to break the bank so to speak.  I could live with 6 mil to start my carreer. Even if I fail I should be able to retire and not have any money worries.

I don't NEED to have the biggest contract in the draft.  I love baseball and would want to get on the field and PLAY.  

If I am any good once I get the major league training and become a free agent I will receive a larger contract.  Probably more than what is ever needed or deserved to play a game I love (see Manny).

I will reserve ny opinion of Alvarez until more info is provided and he himself speaks (if he does).  I still do not like the situation he and Boras put us fans in.  He has to be held accountable as well.  Does not mean a whole lot now if it was him that intsigated this agreement or not.

I WILL NOT Boo him but I will not glorify him either.

At this point all we can do is wait until the rest of the info is provided.

Agitator.you are on it man ! Me,if I were going into my boss for a raise, Boras would be one guy I would want going in with me ! Any of you that say you wouln't do that,or have him represent your son or grandson is delusional. Just be thankful they are going to have him instaed of looking for every negative that might come up.As fror PAMT,he must think he works for the Onion,but his attempts at humor basically are ...Yawn...and ,what do you call it ? Ahhhh..repetitive,thats the ticket ! I think he has a program when he feels like mailing on in.

Cisco wrote:  People supported and loved the 62 Mets precisely because even though they were inept stumblebums, they tried, they "done their damnedest" as the old saying goes, and so provided the fan their money's worth in entertainment value, even if they only won 25% of the time.

Cisco, that may be a bit of revisionist history.  People loved the '62 Mets because the National League was back in New York.  Opening day fans were calling them the Giants and the Dodgers.  When it became apparent that they were hopeless Shea Stadium became an excuse for a party.  They enjoyed winning when it happened, but those guys were so awful as to be comical and although they were trying (in both senses of the word) that's not why the crowds showed up.

Pirate fans are not like that -- I don't think anyone has had fans like that since -- but you do make some good points; if they can put a team on the field that it showing effort and improving, making some plays and giving us something to root for, the fans will probably be there.  

There is a core, keep Jack, keep Doug.  Build around McLouth, Doumit, Freddy, Capps, Grabow, Maholm.  I'll give them a pass on the auditions for the rest of the year, but let's not see any sub-Mendoza starters in May.  Pick a starting line-up in spring training, and if they don't perform -- well, that's why have a team in Indianapolis.

Most of all, get some pitching.  

Oh, and there are two ways to look at "being fired by the Littlefield regime."  

I don't think this deal gets done without the agreement of the Player's Association, MLB, the Pirates, and Alvarez. All parties got something out of the deal, we just don't know all the details yet.

If Alvarez's major league time starts now, that means the Pirates might get 2 productive years from him - 2 years in the minors, 2 years learning at the major league level, and 2 years when might actually know what he is doing. That assumes, he actually develops as hoped.

I'll be glad to see it when he actually signs and we know the contract is valid. After that, he will simply be a talented body who I hope helps the Pirates a little before he leaves for free agency.

I don't expect the Pirates to be much good for another 4-5 years, and only then if they draft well every year. Look at the great drafts Tampa Bay had and how long it took them to finally win.

Unbelievable...it was all about an extra 355,000, just so Boras could save face. Unbelievable.

Hey, I'd take Wakefield - or even Phil Niekro at 69 - on our staff now. And, with the server being so slow ... I hate to admit this ... I'm getting a life today!

Please refrain from adding everyone in comments like delusional, liar, nuts and so on.

Some people do have morals, values, intergrity for themselves and others believe it or not.

Not everyone in this world is greedy!  

I can't see being a liar or nuts for using or not using SB's services. It's a personal choice.  I, for one, would not use anyone like SB for any services under any circumstances.  I would also avoid dealing with SB, not out of fear, out of disgust.

Server's having its Vogelsong day, so I am belatedly joining the celebration for BK returning home.

ants on the move.new thread

"Some people do have morals, values, intergrity for themselves and others believe it or not.

Not everyone in this world is greedy! "

I spent the day in Cedar Rapids Saturday watching a few hundred unpaid volunteers helping people rebuild and repair their homes after the floods their this spring.  

It's taken that long because of the red tape, insurance process, and what not -- but absolutely there are people who have integrity, some to such a degree that they value it more than they value even their lives.