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Post-Gazette beat writers Dejan Kovacevic and Chuck Finder blog about the Pittsburgh Baseball Club.

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Pirates Q&A: Losing, leaving, LaRoche

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By Dejan Kovacevic | 12:30 a.m. Monday

SAN FRANCISCO -- On the occasion of the 16th consecutive losing season, we offer an unscheduled Q&A ...

__________

Q: Does anyone have any idea how long it takes to rebuild? One year, three years, five years or never! This seems to be the theme of the Pirate management each year after the all star game!  Anytime a player shows any sign of progress - Bam! -- he's gone.

Judy Barry of Hermitage, Pa.

KOVACEVIC: Lots of emotions ...

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Q: Dejan, my first memories of the Pirates began in1979, watching the World Series with my grandfather. I love the game I played as a child. Mismanagement of this once-proud franchise hurts beyond reason. 

I've since come to discover that sports in general are for entertainment purposes only. There's no need for me to tolerate this saddened state any longer. We as fans should not have to focus so deeply on one draft pick as we have lately with Pedro Alvarez. If we had a team that was at least mediocre, we could look to a few bright spots within the organization, whether drafting or player development. This is obviously not the case. My jerseys are now retired. (What would I do with my Jason Bay and Jack Wilson jerseys besides make a donation to those in need?)

If the Pirates become a successful franchise once again, I may follow their success. No one had better make a bandwagon reference when that happens, as those few Pirates fans who remain share and understand this suffering.

I will miss your coverage and blog.

Eugene DeCarpio of Baldwin Township

KOVACEVIC: And I will look forward to having your input again someday, Eugene.

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Q: Dejan, to add to your article, the Pirates' losing streak is the same age as the Florida Marlins. The Pirates have not had a winning season during the entire existence of the Marlins. Unbelievable! Meanwhile, the Marlins have won two World Series and have successfully rebuilt multiple times. As for the other expansion teams since 1993, Colorado and Arizona have each been to a World Series, and the Rays have broken through this year.

I know this is piling on, but it's still worth pointing out.

Brian Zahand of Bentonville, Ark.

KOVACEVIC: Yep.

Maybe a good time to resurrect this thing ...

__________

Q: Dejan, did the Bucs even scout Andy LaRoche? While I am not a scout, I watched enough of him with the Dodgers on my MLB Extra Innings package to know that he wasn't even better than Jose Bautista.

While I know Bautista was upset about being sent to the minors, he is probably in his glory now with a team that at least is still competitive and will be for many years to come.

Chris Lach of Mt. Lebanon

KOVACEVIC: Yes, the Pirates had direct eyes on LaRoche and liked him, from what I hear, for a long time. They loved his patience at the plate, saw good power potential and felt he could be a good glove man at third.

This view was commonly held, too. Just a bit ago, I was knifing through a months-old Baseball America for information on something else and came upon a glowing review of all of the above, including the stressing that he is very good at third.

My evaluation to this point is no different than yours, Chris: I see Bautista as better defensively, possibly -- though not as certainly -- better offensively.

I also can attest that Bautista's demeanor, however the Pirates might have interpreted it, did contribute to his being demoted, then traded. They saw his wanting to play every day as being a negative, even though other players such as Doug Mientkiewicz and Jason Michaels have said pretty much the same thing with no repercussion. And, really, the norm is that good teams want their bench players to want to play every day. Happens everywhere.

It is one thing to move players that management sees as not fitting with the program. That happened with Salomon Torres and, apparently, with Bautista. But that should not alter in any way the return that gets sought. Torres produced Marino Salas and a backward-sliding prospect named Kevin Roberts. Bautista produced a .240-hitting Class AAA catcher in Robinzon Diaz.

Time will tell about LaRoche and all the rest -- and LaRoche did make a tremenous diving stop to his right yesterday, something I had not seen him do previously -- but the early returns could not be described as encouraging by any reasonable person.

__________

Thing No. 107 that makes Pittsburgh great: Joshua Bish lives Downtown and, just to show that off, he submitted this photograph taken from his balcony ...

Now, imagine what that place would look like with a competitive baseball team.

__________

Until tomorrow, when we will have a 2 p.m. chat. The Q&A will return Thursday ...


Posted Sep 08 2008, 12:30 AM by Dejan Kovacevic

Comments

JL wrote re: Pirates Q&A: Losing, leaving, LaRoche
on Mon, Sep 8 2008 12:51 AM

Hey Jose,

A haiku really should reference the season.

In that spirit:

Like leaves in autumn

Our boys of summer have plunged

A 'swoon' for the books

bucsfancents80 wrote re: Pirates Q&A: Losing, leaving, LaRoche
on Mon, Sep 8 2008 1:08 AM

Beautiful picture

Jose Lind's Pants wrote re: Pirates Q&A: Losing, leaving, LaRoche
on Mon, Sep 8 2008 1:08 AM

Allow me to not be diplomatic.

Eugene DeCarpio. So what? You don't have the desire to see it through? Oh No! Eugene's s out. That's it. I'm no longer a Pirate's fan.

Let me ask you something. When you took your wedding vows, did they mention when her bosom dropped? When your kids became animals? When you would rather spend your time blogging with other goofballs than shaking the walls? (ouch)

If you're out, so be it.

But, hopefully, when I come back tomorrow the G-Mans going to be giving out Hap Caps, Baywatch will be fighting the only just wars, JL and JAL will still be the same person to me, Uncle Dirt will still Nap, Chris will still be Concerned, diehard will need a shave, Cave will still be a dog, Billy will be face down, and, well? you get the picture.  

I suspect you'll be back in April. But if not, have fun wearing that Red Sox hat. Or Rays. or who cares?

Give me the Superdrags of the world, the Gram Parsons, the Big Stars.

While you're bragging about how many records Nickleback has sold, I'll be throwing "Rudie Can't Fail" on the turntable and thinking...

"Thank God I was born a Bucco Fan. You wanna give me 16 more seasons? Bring it on, cones of disparity! I'll still be doing the same thing I do now. Working overtime, taking in too much caffeine and hops and still loving Nyger Morgan. Now excuse me, I have to adjust my stirrups."

BattlinBucs wrote re: Pirates Q&A: Losing, leaving, LaRoche
on Mon, Sep 8 2008 1:59 AM

Well put Jose...I'm 24 and do not remember the early 90's teams.  The greatest season I've ever witnessed was '97.  That team is the reason I'm so passionate about the Bucs.  That team showed that 9 mil could still field a competitive team, albeit for only one year.  If I gave up on the Bucs what would I do from March til the end of August?  I'm sticking it out because we have seen the lowest this franchise has ever been and we can ride the wave until we are good again.  Just imagine how much we'll appreciate the team when it becomes competitive.  Until then enjoy the short spurts of decency and remember there are worse things in the world than being a Pirates fan.

Pirateboy66 wrote re: Pirates Q&A: Losing, leaving, LaRoche
on Mon, Sep 8 2008 2:30 AM

(not that this has to do with anything anyways)

yesterday I went to my wife's company picnic

wore my Bucs golf/polo shirt and Friday alt. red cap.

A couple arrived late and asked if they might sit at the

empty side of our table.

After about ten min. the wife mentioned that I was

"improperly outfitted" , stating I should instead be wearing

Steelers.

My reply was " as soon as baseball season is over"

So in 23 days I will then be wearing my 66 Faneca jersey

So , for me, til then my Bucs come first ....or last.

Doesn't really matter coz they're still  My Pirates.

HOORAHA to JLP and BattlinBucs...

Very Well Put!

PI Stingray wrote re: Pirates Q&A: Losing, leaving, LaRoche
on Mon, Sep 8 2008 2:31 AM

You da man Jose! If the heat's too hot get out of the kitchen Eugene, Take 16 losing seasons like a man and quit crying about it. As my dear old mom use to say "cryin' doesn't help anything". As for progress, of course it is not going to come over night! This team didn't get bad in one year, its been going on a long time and its going to take more than a year to turn this thing around. HOPEFULLY FC & NH know what they are doing....if not, it may take even longer, but sooner or later the Bucs WILL BE competitive. Waitin' til next year....

Baywatch wrote re: Pirates Q&A: Losing, leaving, LaRoche
on Mon, Sep 8 2008 3:50 AM

Well guys ... Home from the pizza wars once again.

I was all set to comment on Mientkiewicz's great quote from the end of DK's story, but now that I've read Jose Lind's Pants rally cry ...

This may be a bit over the top but I see an application here ...

There was a band of 172 or so volunteers in my home state who stepped up to the plate about that many years ago, facing certain loss, outnumbered by a Mexican Army of 6,000.

Their commander, Col. William Travis, legend-plus has it, took his sword and drew a line in the sand, asking those willing to die for the Texian cause to cross and stand alongside him. Facing certain loss, they all crossed, save one man.

His name wasn't DeCarpio, but he did throw in the towel and bailed before all the action came over the wall.

Granted, there was a lot more honor at stake at The Alamo, not just for Texans but for democracy-loving Americans to this day.

But Pirates fans have faced certain loss for a long time. Are we prepared to face one more? I don't really think so, but could we take one more.

You bet your Davy-Crockett-lovin' life we could ... and you can too, Mr. DeCarpio ... Break on through to the other side.

Now, I think it might be time for Doug's quote from DK's story. I don't think JFK could have said it any better.

" ... Everyone has to understand it's a privilege to be here. It's not given away. Give me 25 guys who fight. Give me that over talent. ... Let's win now."

I liked JFK but I think Dirty Doug has more charisma in one minute than John Kennedy had in a lifetime.

indianafanatic wrote re: Pirates Q&A: Losing, leaving, LaRoche
on Mon, Sep 8 2008 4:16 AM

Baywatch

if you are still here a little history lesson here, let's think cubs and there streak. everytime i get the pirates are losers talk all i have to do is ask how many series have the cubs won in the last hundred years

JHadar wrote re: Pirates Q&A: Losing, leaving, LaRoche
on Mon, Sep 8 2008 7:31 AM

I don't think I ever even considered switching loyalties and there were a few seasons before the Leyland years when we went into the season knowing that the Bucs had the talent required to lose a 100 games.  

Games like yesteday's are why being a baseball fan is not for the faint-hearted or the bandwagon (sorry Eugene) fans.  Either get a stiff upper lip as the English say, or bite the bullet as our friend from Texas might say, but don't expect a lot of sympathy until you do.

Cave Bonifield wrote re: Pirates Q&A: Losing, leaving, LaRoche
on Mon, Sep 8 2008 8:59 AM

I used to play the summer game

When hours blended better still

When mornings brought me better days

With friendships then that always will

I used to play the summer game

With bicycles our wheels of flight

And Pirates fade into the night

When players teams remained the same

Our world was lived in black and white

And 45's produced the sound

Of The Jerk and A Hard Day's work

And trading cards flipped on the ground

I used to live the summer game

I used to get my summer fill

And now I seek the summer dream

Which I'll play out in full............Until.......

Lee Tunnell wrote re: Pirates Q&A: Losing, leaving, LaRoche
on Mon, Sep 8 2008 9:18 AM

That picture of PNC is Awesome.

Eugene wrote re: Pirates Q&A: Losing, leaving, LaRoche
on Mon, Sep 8 2008 11:45 AM

I was surprised that my comments were posted, a friend of mine had pointed me in this direction.  Your postings are amusing to say the least.  It's really much simpler than any of you will allow - there's just better things to do with my time.  It's a shame that this team is in the state it's in.  After following non-competitive baseball for so many years while having opportunities during the course of this time to view championship-caliber sports teams (see Penguins and Steelers), well we all know that bobbleheads don't make up the difference.  I'm not going to put on a Cubs or Rays jersey to prove a point.  Just because I can longer tolerate this mess does NOT mean I can be loyal to any other team.  And I bet the 2-3-10 year hiatus will be time well spent.  

And the picture of PNC is fantastic.  Too bad the Pirates play there.

Pirata13 wrote re: Pirates Q&A: Losing, leaving, LaRoche
on Mon, Sep 8 2008 12:37 PM

Hello, fine gentlemen.  While yesterday wasn't the end to my vacation I'd hoped for, your posts today are making it a little easier to get back to the grind.  Nice to know that as painful as this is, I am not the only one who still loves baseball or the Pirates.  Definitely a hard pill to swallow, though...

JLP--nice rally!  Even nicer Clash reference.

PirateBoy66--excellent reply re: your attire yesterday.  I hate that (even though the Pirates are not good), as soon as football season starts, I have to sift all through the sports page to find baseball buried in the back.  

DK--Thanks for sharing that GREAT pic!  

Good day, mates....

bjm wrote re: Pirates Q&A: Losing, leaving, LaRoche
on Mon, Sep 8 2008 1:49 PM

that picture sums up the Pirates perfectly..."As far as baseball teams go, the Pirates have a very photogenic ballpark."

Should we be rooting for a 17th losing season?  Being the best at being the worst is still being the best at something.

ConcernedChris wrote re: Pirates Q&A: Losing, leaving, LaRoche
on Mon, Sep 8 2008 2:23 PM

1. That picture is truly awesome

2. @JLP

ConcernedChris awaits the day when he blossoms from the pupa stage into a glorious 'CongratulatoryChris'; however, one must first 'enter' the pupa stage in order to morph

'Hope' is all that I desire from the bucs - that is all...I do not need championships to feel good (although they wouldn't hurt :) )-while I truly felt that Jim Tracy will go down as one of the worst managers in the history of the game, HE even argued more calls than JR has done this year-JR is about as charismatic as a carrot. Maybe he volunteers to man the phones at local suicide shelters during his off hours which could explain the sudden rise as of late. Seriously, I know that some call that 'extreme professionalism', however, vacant emotion is more useful for serial killers than it is for leadership in baseball. Look at the flubs, they toil through with Dusty Baker (who is at least in JRs league of the emotionally vacant), than the flubs get Pinella and now all is right. Since Leyland, there has not been a better manager than McClendon-my only fault with him was that he stuck with guys too long & his lineup choices were sometimes odd; however, he laid it out on the line for all to see.

G-Man wrote re: Pirates Q&A: Losing, leaving, LaRoche
on Mon, Sep 8 2008 3:57 PM

To JL for the excellent new avatar;

To Jose Lind's Pants for the poignant diatribe;

To Baywatch for the revisionist history of the Alamo;

To Cave Bonifield for the poetry;

To bjm for trying to find a silver lining among the pocket lint that is this losing streak;

To ConcernedChris for calling into question the charisma of carrots;

To Pirata13 for checking in with the blog first thing when she came back from vacation on a day when we all needed cheering up;

And even to Eugene who will, like the Prodigal Son, return next April whether you think you will or not:

I hereby award Hap Caps:

    __/_H_\     __/_H_\     __/_H_\     __/_H_\

    __/_H_\     __/_H_\     __/_H_\     __/_H_\

AlexandreGiesbrecht wrote re: Pirates Q&A: Losing, leaving, LaRoche
on Mon, Sep 8 2008 5:32 PM

Really beautiful picture. Where's the link to the author's Flickr page? It might be worth a longer look.