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Post-Gazette beat writers Dejan Kovacevic and Chuck Finder blog about the Pittsburgh Baseball Club.

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Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute

By Dejan Kovacevic | 1:35 p.m. Wednesday

The Major League Baseball Players Assocation today will file a grievance against the commissioner's office regarding the Pirates' signing of first-round draft pick Pedro Alvarez, according to two sources.

The union's contention is that Alvarez agreed to his contract after the Aug. 15 midnight deadline.

UPDATE 1:43 p.m.: The Pirates react by issuing a statement. This is it in full:

"At the Pirates' request, the Office of the Commissioner today placed Pedro Alvarez on Major League Baseball's Restricted List.  The Pirates were forced to request that Pedro be placed on the Restricted List because we were informed by his agent, Scott Boras, that Pedro will not sign the contract to which he agreed on August 15.  Boras further informed us that Pedro will not report to the Club unless we renegotiate his contract and agree to pay him more than the $6 million signing bonus to which he agreed.

"The Major League Rules provide that a player who refuses to sign a Uniform Player Contract to which he has agreed and report to the signing Club shall, upon a report of the signing Club, be placed on the Restricted List until he signs a contract reflecting the terms to which he has agreed.  Such a player may not sign a contract with or play for any other Club. While demanding that we renegotiate his contract and pay Pedro more than the $6 million signing bonus to which Pedro agreed, Mr. Boras has contended that the contract we reached with Pedro was consummated after the Aug. 15 deadline. This claim was not raised on the evening of the 15th when we informed Mr. Boras that Major League Baseball had confirmed that the contract was submitted in a timely fashion.  Mr. Boras asserted this claim several days later, after all of the draft signings had become publicized.

"The Pirates are confident that the contract reached with Pedro Alvarez was agreed to and submitted to Major League Baseball in a timely fashion and properly accepted by Major League Baseball. In fact, the contract between the Kansas City Royals and Eric Hosmer, another Boras client, was submitted to the Office of the Commissioner after our contract with Pedro was submitted. Mr. Boras is apparently satisfied with the $6 million bonus that he secured for Mr. Hosmer and has not challenged the validity of that contract. Mr. Boras has been informed that if he pursues a claim that our contract with Pedro was not timely he puts Eric Hosmer's contract with Kansas City in jeopardy.

"The Pirates made several attempts to commence negotiations immediately following the draft and were willing and ready to agree to pay Pedro a $6 million signing bonus from the very outset. Predictably, however, Mr. Boras refused to engage in any negotiations at all until shortly before the August 15 deadline and even then an agreement was reached only after Pedro took control of the negotiations.

"Regrettably, we are not surprised that Mr. Boras would attempt to raise a meritless legal claim in an effort to compel us to renegotiate Pedro's contract to one more to his liking.  We are, however, disappointed that Pedro would allow his agent to pursue this claim on his behalf.  Pedro showed tremendous fortitude and independent thinking when he agreed to his contract on August 15.

"The Office of the Commissioner has assured us that we have a valid contract with Pedro and that it will vigorously defend any claim to the contrary. Despite our disappointment, we continue to believe in Pedro Alvarez the person and the baseball player and remain excited to add Pedro to our system. We will sit down with Pedro and his family as soon as Mr. Boras' claim is rejected to chart a new and much more productive start to Pedro's career with the Pittsburgh Pirates."

1:54 p.m.: So, to try put this into one pile ...

The players' union will grieve the notion that Pedro Alvarez's contract was agreed upon before the midnight Aug. 15 deadline, as required by Major League Baseball's collective bargaining agreement. That has prompted his agent, Scott Boras, to seek a revisitation of the agreement, which was a $6 million signing bonus on a minor league contract, payable over two years.

According to the Pirates, the agreement was reached in a "timely" manner, but the team's statement makes no specific reference to midnight. It also said that the commissioner's office approved of the timing of the deal, but there is no indication that the union did. (One of my sources assures me that the union did not.)

Obviously, all concerned did not divulge any of this until today, instead describing Alvarez's absence in vague terms such as "complications" and the like.

3:36 p.m.: Point of clarification: When that grievance is filed, it will be done against the commissioner's office, not the Pirates. Alvarez is not a major league player, obviously, so the grievance will be one of procedure. Has been clarified in the opening sentence above.

5:34 p.m.: The union issues a statement through spokesman Mike Weiner, filing the grievance:

"The Major League Baseball Players Association today filed a Grievance challenging the unilateral decision of the Commissioner's Office to extend the August 15, 2008 signing deadline for drafted players. The Association and the Commissioner's Office have agreed to expedited processing of this Grievance, with the intention of bringing the matter to hearing as early as September 10, 2008.

"In the 2006 round of collective bargaining, the Players Association agreed to establish an August 15 signing deadline for drafted players with remaining collegiate eligibility. The firm deadline was a Club bargaining demand, and agreement on it was part of a broader set of compromises by the parties related to the reserve system and the draft.

"Within hours after this year's August 15 midnight deadline passed, the Players Association learned from several sources that the Commissioner's Office had extended the deadline for negotiating and reporting signings with drafted players. This was done without notice to or consultation with the Players Association, despite a firm deadline having been established through collective bargaining. The Players Association, after discussions with the Commissioner's Office, players, agents and other parties, viewed it necessary to file a Grievance challenging this plainly unlawful unilateral act by the Commissioner's Office. The grievance was not filed on behalf of any particular player. It is the union's obligation, on behalf of all players, to defend the integrity of its collectively bargained agreements and to ensure that those agreements are respected and honored by the Clubs.

"I have read the statement issued by Frank Coonelly, President of the Pittsburgh Pirates, regarding Pedro Alvarez.  Frank's statement also refers to the contract between Eric Hosmer and the Kansas City Royals.  The Association, after further investigation and the processing of the Grievance, will determine what relief it will seek from the Arbitration Panel, including whether it will seek relief related to agreements accepted by the Commissioner's Office after the collectively bargained signing deadline.

"Moreover, based on information gathered to date by the Association, Frank's statement is inaccurate in a number of respects. While the Association will not respond specifically through the press, we are confident that, at hearing, the Panel will agree that the Commissioner's Office acted improperly when it unilaterally changed the terms of the deal it struck with the Association in 2006."


Posted Aug 27 2008, 01:35 PM by Dejan Kovacevic

Comments

Maz wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:41 PM

I just heard Lanny talking about this on the radio.  What the heck?  So apparently Boras is saying he won't sign the contract or report to the Pirates because they want more money?!  Then why verbally agree???  It seems that the verbal "agreement" was used as a technicallity so they could negotiate longer.  

I don't know, but it doesn't sound right to me.

sarcastic sword wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:41 PM

Maybe this explains why Alvarez hasnt come to Pgh yet....This is bizarre!

JuniataKid wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:41 PM

Now Alvarez is saying he won't sign the contract. We sure do know how to pick 'em!

Can the Pirates trade his rights at this point?

JRoth wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:42 PM

Call me in 2015.

JHadar wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:43 PM

Prima donna

JRoth wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:44 PM

I don't want to trade his rights. I want his career ruined, so that Boras will become anathema.

I cannot believe what a pernicious individual Boras is. Perhaps Ravenstahl could hire him to run the URA.

JRoth wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:45 PM

"Mr. Boras has been informed that if he pursues a claim that our contract with Pedro was not timely he puts Eric Hosmer's contract with Kansas City in jeopardy."

I love this. LOVE it.

sarcastic sword wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:48 PM

Wow!

Based on the PBC's statement, why would Boras go to these lengths?  Sounds like the Pirates have a tight case..

juan pizarro wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:48 PM

DK

As always, good work on getting this info asap. Any thoughts on how long this process could take? And is this the 1st time this has ever happened?

meestro wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:49 PM

Wow! I think I just developed a man-crush on Frank Coonley. That whole press release is one gigantic slap in Boras's face. I'm sorry to see this happen, but way to go Frank!

diehard wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:50 PM

I wonder if Boras promised the Alvarez family he'd bring in $11 million, and when he didn't, they questioned his ability to represent their son - or maybe they refused to pay HIM.

Boras' agent lisence should be revoked.

BuccoNation wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:53 PM

As I high as I am on Pedro... I'm not so sure I want em. Maybe his old man can save him a seat on his PAT bus and take em back to Washington Heights. Fugheddaboutit.

meestro wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:54 PM

I really hope that a lot of big time college players see what is going on here and realize that Boras will just use and manipulate them too.  If people stop hiring him, one can only figure he'll be forced to change his ways.

sarcastic sword wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:54 PM

I liked the subtle jab at Alvarez too......Bravo PBC...

JHadar wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:58 PM

I think we might have a better lawyer on our side.

How is it that $6M is not enough?  

I wonder if Boras can be banned from baseball? (OK, wishful thinking)

How are our relationships (trading prospects, scheduling issues, etc) with the other clubs affected if Coonelly breaks Boras?

Can Alvarez recover from this and play for the Pirates.  

If he decides to chuck it all is eligible for college ball after agreeing to a pro contract publicly even though he doesn't sign it?

More questions as they occur, no answers yet.

Darren G. wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:59 PM

Two thoughts on this fiasco, one is that the league needs to take a serious look into banning Boras from representing MLB players. I am not sure exactly how this can be achieved but I must assume that there is some type of requirement that an agent has to be certified or approved by MLB in order to represent players. There has to be some check on his behavior. Either you take the deal or you do not. Boras and Alvarez could have walked away from the $6 million but did not. To now claim that the agreement came after midnight is both absurd and unethical. And it is obvious that Boras cares more about himself then Alvarez since this is only tarnishing him, just live J.D. Drew and Alex Rodriguez have been tarnished by Boras' actions in the past.

My second thought is that it is high time for Alvarez to pull an A-Rod and take control of this situation. Ultimately, he is an adult, and a college educated adult in that, and he must do what he contractually agreed to do. Alvarez needs to stop hiding behind Boras.

SandlotWizard wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:59 PM

Wow.

What the heck?

ron d wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:00 PM

The Office of the Commissioner has assured us that we have a valid contract with Pedro and that it will vigorously defend any claim to the contrary. Despite our disappointment, we continue to believe in Pedro Alvarez the person and the baseball player and remain excited to add Pedro to our system. We will sit down with Pedro and his family as soon as Mr. Boras' claim is rejected to chart a new and much more productive start to Pedro's career with the Pittsburgh Pirates

The kid is another baby and ***.........he will make the booing of cliff stoudt and george hendrick look like a party..dump him and his rights-we get comp picks--- why would anyone want him on our team...the players will hate him...PBC should jsut say take your whining and l;eave

not all the facts came out on this --the club must have known this for weeks --and for the bad PR held it until now...time to get rid of this ownership and boy genius GM.and MGT mouthpiece frank ....the contract should have been signed by midnite--take it or leave it...if they dont sign theymove on..why pander to this kid and his agent

BuccoFeva wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:01 PM

I (heart) Frank Coonelly.  This kid needs to wake up and fire Boras.  He is setting himself up for failure.

meestro wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:04 PM

Thats a good point sarcastic sword. They put in a little "this is what you get for hiring Boras" quip there. You have to hope that Pedro will come to his senses and realize that he's being used.

sarcastic sword wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:04 PM

The PBC touched on something that made me angry about the negotiations with Alvarez - Why wait two months when the same signing bonus was available in June....His development to the big leagues would have been on the fast track if signed like the TB Rays first pick...

jefft wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:05 PM

OK, color me confused.

How can the union file a grievance on behalf of Alvarez? Maybe I'm just ignorant of labor laws (entirely possible), but if he doesn't have a contract, how can he be a part of the union? Or can anyone join the MLBPA?

And if that's not the case, why would the union file a grievance over a non-member?

matt the rat wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:06 PM

Get rid of the kid. What a joke.

AlexandreGiesbrecht wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:06 PM

What the...

I don't know if that's the correct expression in English, but it sounds like bad faith from Mr. Boras. From the outset.

Buc Fever wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:06 PM

One thing I would like to say is that I FULLY, 100% believe that this whole thing is Boras' doing. I think that Alvarez went above Boras and agreed to the deal before midnight. Now, I think Boras has weasled his thought process back into Alvarez's head and is trying to make him reconsider.

I think the Pirates realize that's what is going on as well. Sarcastic Sword mentioned the Pirates taking a subtle "jab" at Alvarez, but I don't think it was a jab at all. I think it was the Pirates basically saying "look kid, you have a $6 million bonus just waiting for you and this idiot is trying to mess it up for you." The press release even says that it was Alvarez who went over Boras' authority to sign the deal in the first place. To me, it sounds like they are trying to get Alvarez to just dump Boras once and for all.

All I have to say is: Come on kid...it's about time! Drop the clown and let's play some baseball.

rilez0908 wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:07 PM

If Pedro is not going to sign with us, I don't ever want to see him step foot onto a major league or minor league ball field so long as he lives.

I have one question about the restricted list.  How long can a player remain on the list and is it possible for the Pirates to keep Alvarez on there as long as they desire so he cannot go back into the draft or possibly be signed by another team?  Because if he's not going to sign with us and we can keep him on the restricted list until he can no longer even play baseball, that would be fantastic at this point.

As much as I want him to play for us, I also want Boras to learn a lesson and this seems to be the best way to do it.

diehard wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:07 PM

JHadar - If Coonelly/Huntington break Boras they will be heroes to the rest of the league.  We will receive Aramis Ramirez, CC Sabathia, Cliff Lee, Brandon Webb, and Albert Pujols as compensation.  And the past 15 season will be erased from the collective memories of the world via the little flasher thing from Men In Black.

SandlotWizard wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:07 PM

I don't get it.

If the MLBPA is arguing that Alvarez's contract did not make the deadline, wouldn't that make 'renegotiating' the bonus moot?

Disgruntled Goat wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:08 PM

I don't get Boras' logic here.  If PA didn't have a valid contract by the deadline, he goes back into next year's draft.  He doesn't get to renegotiate this deal.

piratesfan wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:08 PM

Coonelly has definitely drawn the line in the sand.  But Boras is forgetting that Coonelly has done this dance before as far as contracts negotiations are concerned.  My biggest question to Alvarez would be:  Who do you think you are?  Alvarez hasn't played one game on any MLB level & he thinks he's worth all this money?  Yet again, the Pirates get kicked in the teeth.

Matt Alexander-DR wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:10 PM

I want to echo Buc Fever and J Roth.

And revise my earlier statement on another thread - Scott Boras should burn in hell, but as part of his punishment he should have Dave Littlefield picking all of his clients till then.

The only part of FC's statement I take issue with his apparent absolving of pedro the punk from responsibility.  The agents works for him, not the other way around.  I'm with JRoth - for all I care he can do post-graduate work at Vandy for the next 6 years..enjoy yourself there.

BillyKidd wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:11 PM

Boras has to know that FC was part of the Legal braintrust of MLB? What is he thinking? He had to know that FC would have an airtight and completed document with every i dotted and t crossed.

PA stop listening to this gigantic moron and start listening to your family and your heart.

SandlotWizard wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:11 PM

Seems that Boras is trying to challenge the draft rules with this move.

Too bad Pedro is getting caught up in this.

BuccoNation wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:12 PM

Only way I want to see Pedro in a Buccos uni is if he steps up to the plate (soon) and does and says all the right things to get this resolved.

The fact is we don't know all the facts... if this is all Boras or not right now. If Pedro's in on this, cut em loose, hopefully he tears both ACLs in Vandy.

Adios.

Dale Berra's Nose wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:13 PM

Jefft makes a great point.  The only way that he may be considered part of the union w/o a contract, I suppose, is if the collective bargaining agreement gives drafted players rights equal to ordinary union members during the period after the draft but before they sign a contract.

pghboyinca wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:13 PM

 At a certain point you just hav eto admit that something is jinxed or cursed and nothing is going to change the bad karma. We are there with the Pirates. This franchise has reached the level that it isn't even believable anymore the ineptitude, incompetence, and just downright bad luck that hangs over it. Beyond pathetic, but Oh yeah we have "THE GREATEST FRONT OFFICE IN ALL PROFESSIONAL SPORTS"!

afail wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:14 PM

If you all think Pedro has nothing to do with this, you are wrong.  Boras couldn't do this unless Pedro wanted it.

I for one will never cheer for Pedro Alvarez and hope he never sets foot in PNC Park or any other Baseball stadium.

Cajun Thunder wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:14 PM

I think that the determining factor will be the paper trail of the Alvarez deal vs. the paper trail of the Hosmer deal. If it is true that the Alvarez deal was done first...that's gonna put Boras in a VERY bad light.

First impression...this is gonna stretch out for much of the winter.

ron d wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:14 PM

what did Nut Job say--the" best management team in all of sports".... where? in Iraq?

PBC is trying to cover its butt in this too--they knew boras is a hard line guy and still made puncy the pick..instaed of the catcher at fl state or the high school ss

and guess what--tthey will not have to pay the 6 mill --so more money for them ..can we get x man and bay bck now?

if they sign this kid--- begging him to play..there nuts

i do this for a living in another sport-- no matter what everyone says the kid is agreeing with boras..or is being influenced by his folks....either way he has a character flaw...and the next contract will be the same.....boras or no boras..dump him..get the comp picks.......move on

bottom line--as is done in free agency in nfl--dont announce anything until the deal is sign--no verbals,,,,no hndsakes...nothing until the paper is signed

the mgt team got burned here-very very bad

'best mgt team of all of sport"..yea right

SandlotWizard wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:16 PM

Eric Hosmer has already reported and played 2 games for the Royals.  

xatta wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:16 PM

Seems to me if Alvarez didn't sign a contract by the deadline, he goes back into the pot for next year. I don't see how the contract can be "renegotiated" now.

Dale Berra's Nose wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:17 PM

pghboyinca,

How can you blame the front office for this mess?  They tried to sign him in June, but were blocked by the Boras games.  They tried to sign him on August 15th and may have been foiled again by Boras' "negotiating" tactics.  There is a lot of blame here, but 100% belongs to Pedro and Boras.  They can decide the final allocation.

sarcastic sword wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:18 PM

Something really stinks here............

For this to make sense, shouldnt Boras have been jumping up and down on Aug 16, saying the deadline was missed...No, nothing was ever said about a deadline being missed..............What has gone on since 8-15 from the Alvarez/Boaras camp?

Buckles wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:19 PM

Just when you think there is dawn on the Pirates horizon, a strom comes up and darkens everything yet again.  Would this really happen to anybody else?  

diehard wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:22 PM

ron d - They didn't pick the catcher (Posey) becasue he was pretty clear about wanting over $10 million to begin with, and most people considered Alvarez the better player.  And they couldn't pick the high school shortstop (Beckham) because Tampa picked him first.

I agree there is a character flaw, as there is with most every player Boras represents.

BuccoFeva wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:22 PM

@pghboyinca - I actually disagree.  What would the old management team have done in a time like this?  

1) First they would have not drafted a Boras client to begin with out of fear.

2) Would have caved in at the last minute to Boras.  Which clearly the new guys didn't because he is some *** off.

3) They would have crawled into a hole at a time like this and would have never came out strong with the truth.

While overall stuff like this only seems to happen to us, but I think taking on Boras in many ways proves that they are a strong front offcie.  Best in all of sports?  No.  But head and shoulders above anything in the recent past? YES!!

Buc Fever wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:24 PM

To those of you who think that Alvarez is behind this just because "The agent works for the player", I ask you this:

If a very smart baseball player, Alex Rodriguez, was used as a pawn by Boras and was none-the-wiser to it until the very end, what makes you think a kid coming from a poor neighborhood with 3 years of a college education is in a position to boss Scott Boras around???

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not...when Scott Boras is your agent, YOU work for HIM.

BuccoNation wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:24 PM

I hear you Buckles... this one's out of our hands though.

Pirate in Montana wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:24 PM

The way I see it, this is not about Pedro Alvarez.  This is all on Mr. Boras.  Do you remember him "mumbling" something about the process being unfair to him as it did not let him negotiate (or something to that effect)?  He did so one or two days after the August 15 deadline.

At this time, it's all about Mr. Boras.  Now, I also agree with the person that posted that Pedro Alvarez needs to do like Alex Rodriguez: Get away from the poison of Mr. Boras.

Wow, now we have our own "Peyton Place."  

Go, Pirates brass, I am rooting for you.  If you beat Mr. Boras, trust me, I will reverse all the ill feelings I have harbored toward you for the past 15 years.  I will even believe and like all the trades you make, seriously.  Show him off!!!

This would be a great way to gain respectability for the Pirates Baseball Club.  Go for it!

P.S. - By the way.  That was a great statement they wrote.

JHadar wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:25 PM

DK -- Good job.  And while keeping track of the game.  Very, very impressive.  

johnnyblaze wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:25 PM

Quote from Alvarez: "Hey, my dad can drive a cab for another year or two. I need, I mean, my family needs an extra $500 grand."

BuccoNation wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:25 PM

GIMME SOME TABATA.

Matt Alexander-DR wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:26 PM

How is this the fault of Pirates' management?  Has any player ever done this before?  I know JD Drew still gets booed in philly everytime he plays there, but all he did was say right from the start he wasn't going to sign with them.

As opposed to this punk who basically lied.  This is all on him - yes, he has the world's most evil agent, but it's all on him.  I look forward to 8 years from now, when he's gotten released from his valid contract and is signed by someone else, going down to PNC and boo'ing the living hell out of him.

NealHeaton wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:26 PM

This is so nauseating I can barely read the article.  What is the real reason this is going on?  Boras isn't happy with his contract?  

Boras is  the antichrist.

BuccoFeva wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:26 PM

Ron D - Get your facts stright man.  Pedro was rated as the best overall player in the draft by Baseball America.  If they would have selected anyone else you would have been the first one to step up and call them cheap and afraid of Boras.

Come on man, admit.  You know you would have.

Robbiesdad wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:27 PM

Why is everybody worried about Pedro Alvarez?  We still have Andy LaRoche and Neil Walker to man 3B for the next 6-10 years.  (pulls tongue completely thru cheek).

Disgruntled Goat wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:28 PM

Seems to me that Boras didn't want Pedro to sign with the Bucs EVER!  If it took Pedro's direct involvement to get the deal done and now Boras trying to void it, I can only assume Boras thought it would be better to try again next year with another club.  After 16 years of losing I can understand why, but that is quite a risk for Pedro.

Buc Fever wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:28 PM

On a side note, I would give anything in the world to be a top 10 pick caliber baseball player...just so that I could meet with Boras and say "The bottom line is I'm going to make a ton of money....with or without you...and for me, it's certainly going to be without you." Then tell him to shove it.

JHadar wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:29 PM

Just reading the update, didn't the story next day talk about Coonelly or yelling"Send it!" right after Alvarez agreed, and wasn't there a time stated; 11:55.  

So how is the fact that the press release today didn't give a specific time anything but spin?  

Cajun Thunder wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:30 PM

If I read the CBA correctly...as soon as Boras negotiated (acted in behalf of Alvarez) with the Pirates...he became the Player Agent for Alvarez. This would eliminate him from returning to school to play baseball.

The fact that it is the MLBPA that is filing the action would also argue that returning to Vandy is not going to happen.

I'd say Boras is out on a very shaky limb right now.

diehard wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:31 PM

Old Boras article, for laughs (imagine the current asking price)

www.thebrushback.com/scottboras_full.htm

BillyKidd wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:31 PM

There is no way anyone can convice me that that Boras knows more about MLB signing rules and regs than FC...FC wrote the R&R's. I think this gets resolved rather quickly...and I agree with the post about MLBPA filing a grievance...HOW if there is no contract...Great point.

AlaskanBuccoFan wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:31 PM

ron d - weren't you one of the many that applauded PBC's pick of the best player available in the draft and not another Moskos?  

For a large group of you to change your opinion of Alvarez being the savior to wanting him to never play again, he's the guy you wanted drafted as well.  Everybody knew that Boras was representing him.  Boras has done this before.  He's always looking for loopholes to enable his clients to become free agents and increase his payday.  We just have to hope our management team has everything lined up and are ready to battle the devil.

Baywatch wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:33 PM

Baywatch Jr. made his decision to attend college in NC so he could see Pedro play in Hickory.

There's a ripple effect here ... from Pedro-to-Hosmer-to ...  

I DEMAND a full refund of my son's tuition!

(Makes about as much sense as Pedro and Boras combined, doesn't it?)

pdxpirate wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:34 PM

IGreat Pirate press release!

hope Baby Alvarez plays baseball better than he makes business decisions.

I hear Vandy has a very good business program, maybe Pedro should attend a few of those classes.

Pirate Sun wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:35 PM

My emotional reaction is teach Pedro and Boras a lesson, a hard lesson.  Do whatever is doable to make this painful for both of them.

My logical reaction is that Pedro has quite the potential, and try get this worked out so he can begin his professional career.  While also teaching Boras a hard lesson.

Bravo to the PBC front offfice!

Lion43 wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:35 PM

jefft : and sandlotwizard :How can the union file a grievance on behalf of Alvarez? Maybe I'm just ignorant of labor laws (entirely possible), but if he doesn't have a contract, how can he be a part of the union? Or can anyone join the MLBPA?

And if that's not the case, why would the union file a grievance over a non member?                                                 I agree with both of you guys,great points. And sandlot,if he isn't going to challenge the draft,I would be very much surprised.I have seen that mentiones prior to this recent signing deadline,particularly by  Boras.                                        

DiTo wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:36 PM

Haha, ron d...what a joke of post.

"I do this for a living in another sport"

Wow...I don't know what to say other than, for the benefit of sports in general, I sure hope you are lying.

Shua wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:37 PM

I don't know, I'm not convinced that this is as airtight as it seems in the Pirates' favor. Boras may be the antichrist, but he's not stupid. I can't believe he'd play this game without a card up his sleeve. I'm definitely looking forward to his response to FC's statement.

juan pizarro wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:38 PM

to me, this looks purely like a standoff between Boras (who has stated he wants to change the MLB draft deadline rules, obviously to his benefit) and FC (the man who implemented the rules for MLB). It's a "High Noon" scenario, or maybe it should be "High (or Low) Midnight", depending on the outcome

Jim Scafide wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:39 PM

This season just keeps getting better and better.  Best management team ever.

Maddamma wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:39 PM

Plenty of invective being thrown around wishing injury on the player and death to the agent.  I can not support either, but I do wish much public disgrace on them both..

There is no way that I support what Boras is doing, but if the union did not agree to the contract's legitimacy then Boras may actually have grounds to contest the deal.  it sure seems that Boras was not happy with the deal that Alvarez agreed to.  I'm sure that he didn't inform Alvarez about the whole post-signing process - just that he could get him more money.  

Still, Alvarez agreed to the deal and it is time to step forward and demonstrate some integrity.  Honor your word.  Show some respect to the organization that is going to give you $6M before you ever take a professional AB.

As for Boras, I imagine that many hire him because he is willing to be ethically ambiguous.  I shudder at the consequences if this maneuver works.  

Good luck MLB and PBC.  Gotta win this one!

BuccoNation wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:40 PM

From a guy on MLBTR:

"For the rules geeks and lawyer manques here: should MLB affirm the signing but SBC/Alvarez play hardball and refuse to report, do the Pirates get pick #1A next year, but nevertheless retain the rights to Alvarez based on this contract more-or-less in perpetuity?

That would be a pretty neat trick."

Yes it would.

Disgruntled Goat wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:40 PM

I would love to know what Pedro thinks about this.  Hope he doesn't end up in the New York-Penn League next year.  It is clear that Boras does not have his best interests in mind.

mclovin wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:40 PM

There are many questions, as this is a very bizarre scenario.

How can the MLBPA file a grievance on behalf of a player who according the player's representative, does not have a legitimate MLB contract?

If the Club and the player did not agree to a deal by the deadline (according to the player), then why would the player be allowed to negotiate after that deadline for more money?

If the player did not agree to the deal, can he return to his college team?

What would Boras or the player care if the commissioner upholds the Pirates contract?  They could continue to sue, hold out, not play until something happens that suits them.  No one is going to put Pedro Alvarez on a baseball field and no one is going to make him play. He is not going to get sent to jail or anything.  

Can the Pirates trade him?  His rights?

Can Alvarez retire? Then announce a come back and sign for the highest bidder?

Can Alvarez play a season of amateur baseball in the Dominican or another country that MLB does not draft from and then be signed as an amateur free agent?

At this point it seems as though Alvarez is never going to play a game for the Pirates and if he does it seems as though he might never be good enough to live up to all this bizarre hype.  Look at other Boras clients from the past who have manipulated the draft before:  JD Drew (1 all star game) Jason Varitek (a handful of all star games, not a hall of famer) Todd Van Poppel (BUST!), Mark Texeira (a very very good MLB 1Bman, but not great).  Is Pedro worth all this trouble?

It may be likely that there are not many current Pirates on the team if and when Alvarez does arrive to MLB, but doesn't it seem likely that Alvarez will at least receive a cold reception from his teammates at every level b/c of both his bonus and the methods used to obtain it?

Boras wants to put the Pirates out of business.  How can deal so well with some teams (Red Sox, Dodgers) and not others (Yankees, Pirates).

At least Mr. Coonley is not scred of him like Littlefield was.  

This is bizarre and sad.  I wish we had a major league team in Pittsburgh, not this minor league stuff.  

It truly is all the Nutting ownership group's fault.

LET MARK CUBAN BUY THE PIRATES, THEN WE WILL HAVE 1ST CLASS BASEBALL.

And I thought DK was starting to sound a little bitter and dejected.

ConcernedChris wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:46 PM

Maybe Alvarez has been watching this pitiful excuse for a baseball team (since 8/15-actually since 7/31) & decided that no amount of money is worth coming here. No way does FC & NH get a bye on this one though, there must have been some shenanigans going on from both sides of the table. Rarely is anything completely one-sided.

Maybe Boobie McNothing's comment about having the 'greatest management team in sports' had some validity to it - Nutting just became $6M richer & shed about $20M in salaries. This simply reeks & anybody trying to sugar coat this is the Lord of Crapola-The bucs WILL NOT WIN this game with Boras - it will not happen - this has been the final nail in the coffin & will prove that the bucs are not even worth shedding a ray of hope upon - they will be doomed forever. Remember, the Red Sox/Cubs streaks of non-championships started with a 30 year period as well.

JuniataMike wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:48 PM

I was just talking to a couple buddies about this craziness and one had an idea that I thought was interesting. Remember how people in MLB were looking into Boras's involvement with Manny getting traded because he would get a big payday if Manny's option wasn't picked up? What if this is Alvarez thing partially fueled by Boras using this as a means to get back at MLB?

I don't think that's the case at all, but with how weird this whole thing is, it really wouldn't suprise me.

IndyBucs Fan wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:50 PM

Seems to me we kinda have Alvarez painted into a corner. Once a player is on the restricted list -- they are just that -- restricted. Let the spoiled brat go back to school. He's risking messing up his hamate again. With a little luck, he breaks his hand, the Pirates save the bonus money, Pedro takes up the family business and becomes a cabbie and Boras is done...

juan pizarro wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:50 PM

This thread may set the record form most comments posted! Boras' actions sounds like he used to "cry to Mommy" a lot when he was a kid. And for all those previous posts about the PBC standing up to Boras, I think we've found our man in Frank "Big Cojones" Coonelly.

STLPirate wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:52 PM

So the MLBPA has filed a grievance on behalf of a non-member that may end up voiding the contract of a member.  I'd LOVE to hear their justification of THAT.

So we can infer that PA verballed prior to midnight and the fax of the paperwork occurred after that.  I'm no lawyer, but its clear to me that SB was PAs agent on Aug 15 and they may give him the right to pursue this with or without PAs blessing.  That said, I expect the PBC is willing to buy him a first class ticket to Pittsburgh if he's willing to grab a pen and use it.  With or without SB.

dwjones1954 wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:54 PM

i can not imagine alvarez ever being able to play for this club after pulling this stunt whether it was orchestrated by boras or not. therefore can the pirates trade him and what could they get for him? at the very least the pirates should be entitled to the first pick in next year's draft.

matt the rat wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:54 PM

Whoa Lambert. Let's keep it clean in here.

Disgruntled Goat wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:54 PM

It sounds like the MLBPA filed a grievance against the contract, but not necessarily on behalf of Alvarez.  Apparently the Pirates and Pedro liked the timing, but the Union did not.  At this point Boras jumped in and told Pedro not to sign in attempt to gain a better deal.

BTW did anyone notice that there is a game going on?  Bucs lose again.

Wisereader wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:54 PM

I am so thoroughly disgusted.  Payvarez and his family (don't forget how influential they seem to be) appear to be receiving a blitz of advice from Boras. Does everyone realize that a line has now been drawn in the sand? This cannot be easily reconciled, if at all.

BillyKidd wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:54 PM

This is probably going to turn out in PBC/MLB's favor. Not one owner or management team/MLB wants to be held up at gunpoint by one criminal. Boras is not doing this to the PBC he is attempting to thumb his nose and wag his finger at MLB as a whole. The MLBPA will see through this ruse in short order and probably back off, seeing that they do not have much of a case...

Just a remember this one...A-Rod left Boras outside the door with a ton of egg on his face when he renegotiated with the Yanks...I think Boras is just trying to re-establish a little swagger

Bucco_Jax wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:56 PM

I for one want to say Bravo to the bucco brass...

If this statement is any indication of how much noise and fight we are going to put into this regardless of whether or not PA signs. I feel maybe down the line there maybe some hope. The whole PA signing has been a dark cloud since I heard we was drafted and represented by Boras. And now with PA a no show and Boras calling foul, the front office slaps right back.

Boras should be left to rot in his own mess, and if Alvarez is truely aware and following along with the games, he should be restricted for the longest amount of time possible. We may suck right now, but if you try to screw us we'll ruin your career!  We want players who will play baseball, not moneyball and mindgames. PNC Park is beautiful stadium, and we dont need more trash filling it.

To Pedro: Think about what you are getting yourself into, you have an opporunity now to get out of this fairly unscathed. Show up to PNC, get your physical, take the money that you agreed to help your family, and play ball.

matt the rat wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:59 PM

Wisereader

This can easily be reconciled...If Pedro signs and plays good baseball. People don't care how terrible a person is, so long as he hits a few dingers!!!

JHadar wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:00 PM

If Pedro is being represented by the MLBPA that surely must affect his NCAA eligibility.  And if I'm coaching at another conference school, I'm going to be filing a protest if he even shows up for practice.  

If the question becomes who said what when, who has the burden of proof?  Does the verbal agreement require a disinterested witness to be vallid, and if so are there arrangements for such observers while the negotiations are taking place?  (If not I imagine there will be next year.)

Disgruntled Goat wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:00 PM

This one is going all the way to the Supreme Court.  Guess Winter Ball is out of the question.

BSpar wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:01 PM

If the contract is voided I don't know how Pedro plays college ball next year.  Per what is going on it is very evident that Boras is an acting agent and not an advisor.

pantherpride wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:03 PM

You know what....if I were the PBC I would simply say ENOUGH! This kid and his family obviously have zero class and this will type of behavior will be a problem forever. Yeah, I know, poor kid from Brooklyn....his big chance......but IMO this has gone to far. You can be poor, shoot for the stars, and still do it with honor and integrity. We knew Boras doesn't have either of these two....its obvious to me that Alvarez or his family don't either.

This isn't shrewd negotiating....this is total dishonesty.

And I personally hope that young Pedro and his family don't get to hide behind Boras....I hope the kids' reputation is soiled because of this. Some may say "he's only 19"....and I'll say "bull...."! We all expect him at PNC Park by 9/09 - we won't worry about his age then.

This kid is not worth the trouble - and, for once, this isn't the PBC's fault. You can't rebuild when your focus piece is a petulant brat.

mazfromiowa wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:03 PM

If he signs with an agent then he can't play college ball and if his rights are with the PBC then he is in purgatory.He cannot play anywhere

AlexandreGiesbrecht wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:06 PM

Matt: "People don't care how terrible a person is, so long as he hits a few dingers!"

Would that apply to Bonds and Derek Bell in Pittsburgh? ;P

Good_for_Nutting wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:08 PM

Boras is one of the several significant problems within MLB.   There is no shortage of greed in any of the major sports, but  MLB takes the cake.  

I don't think the Pirates can sign him now either, not with the display he has allowed to take place.  Neither he nor the Pirates can ever live this down.  Take the first round pick next year instead of him and be done with it (assuming MLB will rule in favor of the Pirates).  I would hope that they don't end up signing the guy.  Not because he is not good enough, but because the Pirates can't go into a deal like this with so much negativity this early.  For this to end well, Alvarez would have to be extraordinary (ie, a lot better than Neil Walker).

go21bucs wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:10 PM

wow.

what a disaster.

I agree with some of the other posters here -- I can't see how PA can go back to vandy after his interaction with boras.  

and, I can't see how the MLBPA can file such a grievance if the contract is supposedly null and void -- unless it's a situation as described by one of the other posters here that draftees get equal rights.

but, I also think that those of you wishing ill will on PA should check yourselves before you wreck yourselves.  we don't know all of the backstory yet.  but -- with DK on the job, I'm sure we'll get all of that in due time.  

it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

@ lambert -- dude, it's "retarDed", not "retarTed".....

Disgruntled Goat wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:10 PM

Didn't PA cash a check for $3,000,000 PBC Bucks?  Can't imagine he's going to be in any hurry to give that back.

ConcernedChris wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:11 PM

While many of you seem to be almost excited by this 'standing up to boras crapola' - PEOPLE, THE PIRATES ARE IN NO POSITION TO STAND UP TO ANYBODY, PLAIN & SIMPLE....LET THE STEINBRENNERS STAND UP TO HIM.....WE NEED TALENT, WE NEED A 3B, WE NOW HAVE N-O-T-H-I-N-G.....THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE DARKEST DAY I CAN REMEMBER IN PIRATES HISTORY-Nutting should have paid him $10M, why not???!!! IT IS NOT YOUR MONEY, FOR **** SAKE!!! EVERYBODY COMMENTING ON THIS BLOG OBVIOUSLY ARE MOLES THAT WORK FOR THE PIRATES OR ARE NOT SEASON TICKET HOLDERS!!!! PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS, THAN MAYBE AFTER YOU DO THAT & YOU STILL FEEL THE WAY YOU DO (about the false pride for standing up to Boras), THAN MAYBE YOUR STATEMENTS CAN BE COUNTED -

The one that loses here is:

NOT BORAS

NOT ALVAREZ

NOT THE NUTTINGS (they are laughing AT YOU-FOOLS! with an extra $6M in the bank)

only the FANS - we are the ones that will LOSE HUGE

We now have Lil La as our permanent 3B of now & THE FUTURE & NOBODY IS UPSET ABOUT THIS??????????!!!!!!!!

Seriously, I am going to be sick - PAY HIM $10M - ALL I GIVE A CRAP ABOUT IS HAVING A BETTER TEAM, NOTHING ELSE

THIS NOW MEANS THAT WE DIDN'T SIGN EITHER OF OUR TOP TWO PICKS + WE LOST BAY & NADY

UNFREAKINBELIEVABLE - YOU COULDN'T WRITE A STORY AS BAD AS THIS - I WANT TO GO DOWN TO PNC WITH A PITCHFORK & TORCH & HOPEFULLY SOME OF YOU WILL WAKE UP FROM YOUR ZOMBIE BEHAVIOURS & JOIN ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

juan pizarro wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:11 PM

just read the "re-negotiation" was for an additional $200K, so that PA would be the highest paid draft choice for 2008!

more info on the Pirates website: pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

FinerKiner wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:11 PM

Does this have anything to do with Boras' ego being hurt? After the deadline, everything out of Pittsburgh, and everywhere else for that matter, declared the Pirates the winner after staring down Boras and not blinking. There was a quote from him whining that teams held all the leverage with the deadline and it wasn't fair. Is he using Alvarez, and the Pirates, to get his way by throwing a $6 milion temper tantrum?

matt the rat wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:12 PM

AlexandreGiesbrecht

People would have put up with bonds if he wanted to stay. As much of a jerk as he was, it wouldn't have mattered as long as he produced on the field. Thats for sure.

philipmarcavitch wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:12 PM

Per the NCAA:

7. Am I permitted to have an advisor during this process?

YES, provided the advisor does not market you to MLB teams. However, an advisor will be considered an agent if they contact teams on your behalf to arrange private workouts or tryouts. Under NCAA regulations, you and your parents are permitted to receive advice from a lawyer or other individual concerning a proposed professional sports contract, provided the advisor does not represent you directly in negotiations for the contract. In this regard, it is permissible for an advisor to discuss with you the merits of a proposed contract and give you suggestions about the type of offer you should consider. In order to maintain your eligibility at an NCAA school, however, you may not use this advisor as a link between you and the professional sports team. Rather, you must view the advisor as an extension of your own interests and not as a source to contact a professional team. If you use the advisor as a direct contact with a professional team, the advisor shall be considered an agent and you will have jeopardized your eligibility at an NCAA school. For example, an advisor may not be present during the discussions of a contract offer with a professional team or have any direct contact (including, but not limited to, in person, by telephone, e-mail or mail) with the professional sports team on your behalf. Finally, it is important to note that in order to maintain your eligibility at an NCAA school, if you receive assistance from an advisor, you will be required to pay that advisor at his or her normal rate for such services.

www1.ncaa.org/.../2008_MLB_Educational_Document.pdf

Sounds to me like Boras is offically his agent.

BillyKidd wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:14 PM

@Good--<Take the first round pick next year instead of him and be done with it (assuming MLB will rule in favor of the Pirates>

And if the #1, 2, 3 picks are Boras clients, what happens then?

Maz wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:16 PM

Doesn't Rocco have a supposed connection inside the Boras camp?  Maybe he can find out more for us.

Ha!

matt the rat wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:17 PM

Wow ConcernedChris seems really concerned today. I think he may be a little dramatic here.

"THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE DARKEST DAY I CAN REMEMBER IN PIRATES HISTORY"

Hey man I think your caps lock might be on!

madturk2008 wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:18 PM

PA -   Please take control of your life!  Since you agreed to the deal then let's make this happen.  Come into the fold of the Pirate family and state that you are young and were just listening to your agent.  We will forgive you as long as you report and play hard.  This we expect from all of our players.  If you feel cheated because you are not getting more money than some of us will ever make in a lifetime, I say play hard make yourself a good player in our system and leave or get traded prior to your arbitration dates.

Boras - There is nothing I can say that would not get deleted from this post.  

I hope that the PBC never gives in to this outlandish demand.  I would hope that any other ballclub never offers more money to PA if he somehow is let loose from this contract.  All the ballclub's need to start getting this thing ( signings) under control.  This is pure greed!!!  Is PA religious?  This is one of the deadly sins....

Professor Chaos wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:19 PM

Remember when people were saying that if the Pirates don't sign Alvarez they will be destroyed by their fan base?  Well, there was pretty much only one way to get away with it.  Here it is.

billbucfan wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:21 PM

Perhaps Alverez could not pass the physical. Didn't he have an injury recently? His contract is a minor league one with no guarantees if he doesn't pass. Perhaps Boras knows this and wants a major league contract which guarantees the $6 mil. So perhaps money isn't the issue but the type of contract.

Cajun Thunder wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:21 PM

From the MLBPA website in the CBA...

ARTICLE II—Recognition

The Clubs recognize the Association as the sole and exclusive collective bargaining agent for all Major League Players, and individuals who may become Major League Players during the term of this Agreement, with regard to all terms and conditions of employment, provided that an individual Player shall be entitled to negotiate in accordance

with the provisions set forth in this Agreement (1) an individual salary over and above the minimum requirements established by this Agreement and (2) Special Covenants to be included in an individual Uniform Player’s Contract, which actually or potentially provide additional benefits to the Player.

pdxpirate wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:21 PM

I must admit the shock is wearing off.  

Today is the first day I have felt embarrassed to be a long time Pirate fan.  Last nights performance, the Baby Alvarez fiasco, the Bay-traders performance (Hansen/An. LaRoche/Moss in particular) on the field.

My fondest Bucco memory cannot shake the sadness.

For the record; my favorite Bucco memory is sitting through snow flurries on the top deck of 3RS Game 4 of the 1979 World and seeing Stargell blast one out.

Now if that cannot shake a fan out of a funk, I can promise you the greatest press release in the world will not either.  (but it was a great try).

I guess the reality is settling in: Pedro Alvarez will never be like Willie Stargell.  If/when we sign him we can expect him to be more like Barry Bonds.  He may get us contention, but his selfish attitute will never lead us to victory in Series.

At this low point, 2010/2011 for contention my happen.  But to win a World Series championship looks decades away.

JHadar wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:22 PM

While I am definitely not in the camp of those blaming ownership and management for this fiasco, I think it also speaks to how much trust has been broken that these comments are, although not in a majority, very plentiful here.  

The closed style of management and the lack of results for so long have produced a sizable crowd of fans who take every action and happening as deliberate, designed to cheat or irritate fans, cheap, mean spirited, and hard hearted.  

The loss of a single player is a hiccup in the grander scheme of things, but win, lose, or draw on this one and the next surprise and the ones that follow this organization needs to recognize that it has a large alienated fan base, some of whom may never trust them again, and make some positive moves toward regaining that lost trust where it may be recaptured.

mazfromiowa wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:24 PM

Send Doug Dirt and 32 oz. of ash to talk with Pedro.Just kidding.I thought we needed a little humor

BFGrad wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:24 PM

I'm not a lawyer, but there are oral contracts. I do not believe the contract between Alvarez and the Pirates needs to be formally signed to be considered legally binding. Alvarez stating "I accpet" verbally over the telephone to the Pirates makes it valid. If the Bucs were smart enough to record the conversation, I don't think Alvarez, Boras or the MLBPA have a leg to stand on. Contract Law has been around a long time and precedents are well established.

From Boras' actions, he understands this is a valid contract, too. Otherwise he would not have involved the MLBPA. IMHO, Alvarez would not be a member of that union unless he had a valid std baseball contract. The fact that MLB has put Alvarez on the restricted list indicates they also believe he has a valid contract.

I also recall reading that 3M of the signing bonuse was payable immediately upon agreement of the contract. If the Pirates paid any or all of that and Alvarez accepted/spent the money, that would be another indication Boras and Alvarez knew he had a valid contract.

Further, Boras has put his client in a mess. I agree he can't go back to Vandy and play and I wonder if Vandy would continue to carry him on an athletic scholarship even though he is ineligible to play baseball.

Personally, I can do without Alvarez. There are just as many gems like Dave Parker and Nate McLouth to be found in later rounds of the draft as there are in the first round. The Pirates should tell him and Boras to take a hike.

ConcernedChris wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:25 PM

Here's a question for all of you, why wasn't NH sitting in the Alvarez household to have him sign that paper...Its not like he had anything else to do...he had already traded away everyone worth a pound of salt

I seriously hope that this puts a final nail in the coffin of this ownership group - I Hope less than 8K people show up per game next year & less than 5K in 10' - maybe Neal was right about one thing, this team NEEDS BLOWN UP only thing is instead of the roster, the ownership group is what needs to be imploded.

the_gunner wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:26 PM

We as Pirate fans demand loyalty -- to the city and the team.  What loyalty is Alvarez likely to have to the Pirate organization?  He will be gone at the first opportunity.  Even if we win this case, we lose in the long term.  

I see this as a no-win situation for the Pirates.  Boras and Alvarez will get their money either now or later.  The Pirates at best will have a rent-a-player with a possibly bad attitude.  In the future, if his talents are real, we'll be booing him in some other uniform like we boo'ed Bonds.

ron d wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:27 PM

JLambertfan58 wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute

on Wed, Aug 27 2008 7:47 PM

also ron-d, i hate people like you. people like you dont realize other people's points of view, and you think your opinion is always right, You dont realize that if we kept bay and Xman, we would not have made the playoffs, and then in a couple years when these guys are done playing baseball, then we dont have any players left and were screwed. ron-d go ahead and keep posting here your retarted comments, noone reads them and noone cares. basically your fu**ing stupid

SOUNDS LIKE YOU DID MAN....NICE MONIKER BY THE WAY

AND LEARN HOW TO SPELL

Robbiesdad wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:30 PM

I know this is off thread, but I have no place else to vent.

The good news: We've now found a hitter worse than Adam LaRoche in April and May.

The bad news:  It's Andy LaRoche in any month.  But, at least he's good in the fiel...uh, never mind.

Best thing I can say about Andy LaRoche is that he's not Jose Bautista.  Faint praise (very faint) indeed.

billbucfan wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:31 PM

Don't worry Buc fans. Don't we Neil Walker to play 3B? Hey, didn't you ustabe Neil Walker the local yocal who was our star of the future?

billbucfan wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:31 PM

Don't worry Buc fans. Don't we Neil Walker to play 3B? Hey, didn't you ustabe Neil Walker the local yocal who was our star of the future?

jefft wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:31 PM

Thunder--thanks for the clarification.

As a proud Kool-Aid drinker, I'm gonna continue to believe that Boras is the driving force behind this, and that Alvarez will come to his senses, sign the contract, and all can be forgiven.

ConcernedChris wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:33 PM

btw, the bucs lost again today - shutout by a guy with a +5 ERA & Lil La went 0 for 3 to extend his hitless streak to 27 ABs  oh and this was our 7th loss in a row- I wonder why this is the first we have heard of all of this? I guess the ownership was trying to get as much space as they could between losing our two best players & not signing our two top draft picks.....Lastly, if only $200K separates us from Alvarez, I will pass around a collection hat & get him the money - I want a fantastic player I DEMAND A FANTASTIC PLAYER.

The Hanging Curve - Baseball Opinion that won’t Bend or Break » Pirate Booty - MLB Blog wrote The Hanging Curve - Baseball Opinion that won&#8217;t Bend or Break &raquo; Pirate Booty - MLB Blog
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:34 PM

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Cajun Thunder wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:38 PM

@ConcernedChris...the reason NH wasn't in the Alvarez living room...is because Pedro wasn't there. It was documented for several days before the deadline that the Pirates tried contacting him and his family at home and they were not available. It's safe to assume that Scott Boras had them holed up somewhere where the Pirates couldn't reach him without going through Boras.

Mosswillbeastud wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:38 PM

According to MLB he wants 200,000 more dollars WOW you already paid him 6 mil give him 200,000 more

pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

meestro wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:39 PM

Hey, let's not hate on Ron D too much. He's just very um...unique? Seriously though, he is definitely a pessimist but he's made good points in the past, and he is obviously a big Bucco fan. I think he's just Sorta like that guy from Major League 2. Once (if ever?) the Pirates start winning, he'll come around. Or maybe he just needs a hug.

And to those of you that seem to think the Pirates are going to lose Alvarez, have you forgotten that this sort of stuff is Coonleys bread and butter? He's a financial lawyer and he spent years of his life working to make sure signings are done properly and fairly. Personally, I see very little reason to fret, with the one exception being that Pedro seems like he might have a bit of a character flaw.

Dale Berra's Nose wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:39 PM

ron d,

for calling out another person's spelling (do you know the difference between there, their and they're?) i say:  

"what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things i have ever heard at no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it i award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul "

JohnnyNez wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:40 PM

Deep breaths, please...

Remember what you were like at 21?  And if you're already 21 (or close to it) you probably don't realize how stupid you really are (you'll look back someday and realize it, trust me... we all do).

Boras is a bully, plain and simple.  He also is very intelligent and wouldn't be the first snake oil salesman to mesmerize a mark... er, client.

Does Alvarez bear some responsibility here?  Absolutely.  But show the kid some mercy, will ya?   He's young, naive, and in bed with the Devil.  I'm sure he's quite intimidated by Boras, even moreso than David Littlefield was.

If you need to direct your vitriol, direct it at Boras, not Alvarez.  He'll be in black and gold sooner rather than later and gives us some star-level talent that we sorely need.  Deriving future pleasure of booing him or hoping his life is ruined is harsh and cold.  

In a few days this will be resolved and over with.  I applaud the front office for taking a hard stance and not backing down.

Crack open a cold one (Diet Coke if you're under 21) and relax.  It's posturing and will be over with soon enough.

Johnny X wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:42 PM

To all fellow Scott Boras haters (his own mother is probably on that list), please enjoy this humorous story:

www.thebrushback.com/scottboras_full.htm

acurve wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:43 PM

whats not being discussed is how this will affect future drafts and PBC's new philosphy of choosing the best player available. a circus like this may make PBC go back to signing due to signability and not talent to avoid boras clients and holdouts til the deadline.

Cisco Kid wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:43 PM

What is reality? This isn't about 200K. There's more to it that we haven't heard yet. Who's gonna blink?

I hope that when the dust settles, I'll hear clanking when FC and NH walk down Federal Street.

(If you don't get the reference, look up what was said about Harry Truman after he fired Douglas McArthur.)

48jj wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:43 PM

Hey DK ...

Doesn't MLB have any way to revoke an agent's ability to represent players? Boras is out of control .... last year with A-Rod and the Yankees, the Manny funny business just to get out of Boston, now this BS with Alvarez.

Constantino wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:44 PM

Alvarez doesn't want 200k more.  Boras does.  Needs it so he can tell prospective players he got the biggest draft bonus last year, for the last X number of years, etc.  Posey's agent gets that calling card as of now.

I wouldn't fork over another dime.  Start off on this foot and you wind up with guys like Manny Ramirez assaulting employees and thinking they run the place.  Let him go back to Vanderbilt with his bum hand in a deeper draft, and send the father back to the bus in Washington Heights.  If he can't be a man and stand up to his agent, what's that say about what he's made of?

LarryZ wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:44 PM

My inside sources tell me that Scott Boras is quickly losing credibility as an agent in MLB, and this latest action is a stunt to flex whatever muscles he has left. I still contend that a young prospect could hire any number of decent, edducated lawyer who could do exactly what Boras does and yield the same results. Boras obviously doesn't "deal" with the small market teams anymore. No money in that. Pedro wil come around and honor the contract, after terminating Boras. Mark my work.

ConcernedChris wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:47 PM

@Thunder..."the reason NH wasn't in the Alvarez living room...is because Pedro wasn't there. It was documented for several days before the deadline that the Pirates tried contacting him and his family at home and they were not available. It's safe to assume that Scott Boras had them holed up somewhere where the Pirates couldn't reach him without going through Boras."

You know, I remember that story as well, and even at that time I wondered the LEGALITY with Boras doing such a thing.....I understand that he is legally allowed to negotiate on behalf of his client, however, I do not believe that amateurs (Alvarez) would be allowed to accept gifts/money/hotel rooms/etc from Boras....I could be wrong though.

Jeff wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:48 PM

I was going to suggest we add $1 per person to all tickets next year to make up the $200,000. With 5 more weeks of losing coming up and no number 1 pick, we might not draw 200,000 next year to pay it.

BenderHeel wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:49 PM

Wow, and here I thought it was just a boring Wednesday afternoon....

The Pirates are in great hands with Frank Coonelly on this one.  Not only was he just the general counsel for Major League Baseball overseeing disputes just like this, but he cut his teeth with one of the best law firms in the world here in Philadelphia, doing just this kind of labor and employment work.  

Boras's arguments are unconscionable and inconsistent.  How can you renegotiate a contract that isn't in place?  How can you argue that Pedro's contract is invalid while a later contract of your own client is valid?  Assuming the facts line up as Coonelly claims in his statement, I cannot see any way that Boras and Alvarez win this dispute.  And I cannot see how Pedro would let himself be used and abused by his "advisor" like this.  The law does not recognize "buyer's remorse" when you have a binding contract.

As another poster mentioned, I'd be curious as to what happened with the $3M that the PBC already sent to Boras.  Is it in an escrow account, or has Pedro already used some of it?  If he has, then that could be an affirmation of the agreement and a waiver of any objections thereto.

meestro wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:49 PM

concerned chris

NH at the Alvarez household putting ink to paper? You're really not thinking clearly.  First off, no GM does that, and second, Alvarez wouldn't have been there! He would be sitting with Boras.

Buc Fever wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:51 PM

Hey, if the only thing to come of this whole stunt is that Alvarez eventually signs and gives Boras the ax, what more could a Pirates' fan ask for?! At least then we won't have to worry about him demanding $25 million/year in his first year of arbitration.

stu wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:52 PM

How many people out there wish that they could get away with this crap at their job.  This is all because Boras wants to be recognized as the agent of the highest paid player in the 08 draft.  Over $200,000.  This is just another way for this "super agent" to ruin the game.  I understand getting all you can for your player, but this should have been over two weeks ago.  If he didn't feel he was being compensated adequately enough he should have said "no thanks" two weeks ago and gone back to school.  

BuccoNation wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:56 PM

2:27pm: Baseball America's Jim Callis offered thoughts on the situation in a chat today.  He heard Hosmer was granted an extension by MLB, and signed a bit after the deadline.  Alvarez may have been granted one as well.  Alvarez apparently took control of the negotiations toward the end, which may be the cause for Boras' complaint.  A similar situation happened in '93 with A-Rod, and the grievance didn't go anywhere.

www.mlbtraderumors.com/.../drama-over-pedr.html

www.baseballamerica.com/.../266762.html

BuccoNation wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:57 PM

Didn't realize you needed a password for the BA link. Sorry fellas.

azbucsfan wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:57 PM

Bravo to Frank Coonelly.  Until that kid ditches that joke of an agent, I hope he never plays another game.

BenderHeel wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:58 PM

FYI:

Under the law of this Commonwealth it has been held that even where a later formal document is contemplated, parties may bind themselves contractually prior to the execution of the written document through mutual manifestations of assent.

PBC 1, Pedro Boras 0

JAL wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:59 PM

I never understand the "I want to be the highest paid" mentality, especially from someone who has not produced in pros yet.  I can almost understand it when a top flight player wants to be piad the most but that is based on production.  Still, wanting more money is not about the money--it about the ego.  Assume the story about wanting another $200,000 is correct--is another $200,000 going to make life easier for PA and family?  No.  Of course that comes from my philosophy--the less I like the job the more you have to pay me.  Oh well, we shall see how this one plays out.

meestro wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:00 PM

Buc Fever

That's a great point. What if Alvarez signs and gets rid of Boras? That would be sweet and hilarious.

madturk2008 wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:00 PM

@JohnnyNez

Another voice of reason for our bloggers.  right on my friend.

PBC do NOT cave in a pay another cent.  A contract is a contract is a contract.....

6 mil just to show up?  Get a real life like your father has had to do, then complain about 200,000.  You can make that up in several ways without this stupid holdout. In fact you could have made it by signing already back when the original offer was made.  Your career has been waiting for you.

If you sign for a dollar or 100 mil you still have to show up and play.  Once you are worth it you will get the outrageous sums of money the NY'ers and  La'ers will pay.

This situation still has me ruffled.  I do agree with you JohnnyNez

JoeBucco wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:00 PM

Wow, there is a surprise, Scott Boras being an A-hole.  Never saw that one coming.  How does any baseball player have this SOB as an agent?  He immediately makes them look like pricks too, guilty by association.

BobDH wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:01 PM

"Darkest Days of the franchise"

Absolutely not.  Today is the day the lowly Pirates stood up to and whacked SuperEgo Scott Boras over the head.

If the Pirates press release to to be believed, and I do, Alvarez ain't going back to college or playing any professional baseball in this country until he signs his contract with the Pirates.

The only thing that I am sure of is that this dispute will get much uglier before it's over.

No, this is not the darkest day for the Pirates.  On the contary, the future looks quite bright to me.

Excuse me while I put on some shades ......

bjm wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:01 PM

If you listen closely, you can hear Littlefield laughing...hopefully Boras gets nailed to the wall on this.

the_gunner wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:02 PM

Life sucks -- and then you're a Pirate fan!

G-Man wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:03 PM

BuccoNation -

>>The fact is we don't know all the facts<< Exactly. I am not letting Pedro of the hook by any means. But we already know Boras = Scum. I'd say there's a better than even money chance that he has lied to Pedro and misled him.

ron d -

I agree with you, that Pedro has a character flaw, for lack of a better term. Pedro, ultimately, has to bear responsibility. But any of us who have kids know that they are still wet behind the ears at 21. If he's getting bad advice, and I believe he is, he's not a complete demon.

This makes me wonder whether this was all calculated by Boras even before the call was made to the Pirates on 8/15.

If this plays out and Pedro becomes a Pirate, what are the odds of him getting the "Jagr" treatment the first time he takes the field at PNC?

honus wags wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:03 PM

better hold off on the alvarez bobblehead.

lets let lawyerball take its course. borass does this for 'business', not play ball. maybe a 'law and order- mlb' is needed?

my hunch is there were a few winks at the clock, and a few subsequent items like a physical issue? I doubt borass did this for any other reason than there was an opening of some kind to do so.

now we'll really see what kind of management we have. I think we have a better chance at this game than the one on the field these days.

G-Man wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:04 PM

Baywatch -

If you cannnot get a refund of Baywatch Jr.'s tuition, I'll cut you in for a percentage on my Hap Cap business.

JL wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:10 PM

Though there's probably no more to this than what we can plainly see --Boras is scr##ing all parties involved just for his own ego-- one does have wonder if there IS something to the notion that Alvarez might have a problem with his physical, right now.  Could this all be a diversion to stall for time?...    Nah,  I can't even believe that myself.

Boras might be trying to punish the Pirates--a frugal team-- for having the audacity to  stick to it's guns in dealing with him, though. In a way, the Pirates are now representing all other non-Yankee front offices for the future of any dealings with Scott Boras. This could be a mini Curt Flood-like watershed event.

sside67 wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:11 PM

If Boras had wanted 6.2 mil, he could have countered with 6.4 right after the draft, and I bet the Pirates would have met him halfway at 6.2.

That's not what this is about, I'm sure.  I wonder about the kid's health.  I also wonder if anyone who thought we shouldn't have traded Nady, now thinks that we would have ever been able to resign him (as a Boras client)

Whatever the case, we can hope that if the Pirates end up on the wrong end of this one, that will force MLB to reevaluate it's draft signing process - and make it a priority for future contract negotiations.  

Matt Alexander-DR wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:11 PM

I know a way the Pirates can win here.

Keep him on the reserved list until he agrees to show up and play for the contract that he agreed to.  Let me underscore that, the one he agreed to.  Stop feeling sorry for poor pedro from the bronx.  Having gone to another SEC school myself the only thing Vandy ever leads the conference in is GPA.  If he's smart enough to be there, he's smart enough to make decisions for himself.

Now, getting back to the optimal solution.  Once he agrees to play, send him down to High A Lynchburg.  Make him play the outfield so he can spend the next 4 years chasing around all the moonshots hit off of Danny Moskos.  Then when he's 28 after 6 years at Lynchburg, turn him loose as a freeagent - no one will remember his name.

Now I know someone smart out there is going to tell me you can't keep a player at single a for 6 years, but I can dream can't I?  And imagine driving down to lynchburg every summer to spend 3 hours booing him and asking him if he likes how his life turned out.

Greg Schuler wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:11 PM

Such an amazing amount of stupidityin this thread (which is saying something).

Alvarez lost his NCAA eligibility the moment he agreed to terms with the Pirates. Not that it matters - he was never going back to Vandy to begin with.

Alvarez is not a member of the MLBPA unless he signs a MLB Player contract or is placed on the 40 man roster. he has done neither so the MLBPA does not represent him. The MLBPA can and does, however, have the ability to contest the validity of the contract but not on his behalf. It will do so on its (the MLBPA) behlaf.

Scott Boras is the best and most powerful agent in baseball - period. Whatever you think of his tactics, please know that he knows the draft rules and regulations as well as Frank Coonelly. Boras is as prepared as any front office or MLB staff you can find in these matters.

The Pirates will not receive a compensation pick and keep the rights to Alvarez. The restricted list simply clears a roster space on one of the minor league rosters and is a technicality at this point - lots of players are placed on the restricted list during a season for a variety of procedural moves (including failure ot report).

If Alvarez is truly in charge of his destiny, he would release Boras from his commitment and find another agent. However, it appears that Alvarez agrees to some extent with this approach since he has done and said nothing to this point. In fact, there may be a procedural error in the Alvarez contract above and beyond what the Pirates are reporting (which will be incredibly biased in their favor).

Stalin was right - useful idiots.

almartin_uscgrad wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:12 PM

Everyone is missing the point here, Boras may be evil, but he is good at this, and he wouldn't have filed this grievance unless he found a loophole.

This is going to end one of two ways:

1. He's able to continue negotiating with the Pirates to get more $$.

or

2. Alvarez is declared a free agent and will be able to sign with the highest bidder.

BattlinBucs wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:12 PM

I come back from class wearing my Bucs shirt all happy and come home to find this?!?  See if I attend the rest of the semester.  

This has long term effects not only for the future of Pedro but the future of our draft choices.  I would find it near impossible to draft a Boras client anytime soon.  Sad because after both sides kept their word in keeping it quite and 'agreed' on a contract I thought the Pirates and Boras would have a healthy future.  

This completely disgusts me.  Boras has yet to show an ounce of class.  *See ARod last year.

juan pizarro wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:14 PM

The only way this ends well is if/when PA dumps Boras, otherwise the fans will never let up on PA. Sad to say.

Wonder what the current team members think of this fiasco (DK - can we get DD's opinion)? And too bad XMan is not still around, maybe he could ask Boras directly, since that's his agent.

dubers15801 wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:15 PM

Yes, this will be a great test of wills.  Boras is not stupid.  He knows what he's doing.  Frank C. is not stupid either.  Both are lawyers.  It's a shame what this has come too.  I'd be surprised if the Pirates lose this battle.  This says a lot about Pedro's character.

Just Pedro being Pedro.

ConcernedChris wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:15 PM

It is comical to hear you folks say that Boras is losing his 'flex' - check the numbers, folks:

The 'commission' that he nets per year is probably more than Nutting's MLB payroll. Boras probably has more money at his disposal than Nutting does & could probably wait us out till the cows come home - if he really wanted to (and maybe already has), he could simply put Alvarez on his payroll & could possibly pay him more than the bucs were willing to ante up. $3M per year would be nice, however as Chief Sanitation Engineer for Boras Enterprises, he may make over $4M/year----give him the $200K and just be done with this! We could use an open line of communication with Boras, because if the bucs truly believe in drafting the best player possible, year in and year out, we will run into him many many times more in the future. Seriously, the bucs could have simply said, here is $10M if you sign on June 15th, start your career right away (since the bucs have said how important that is) & showed Boras, the rest of MLB, AND THE FANS OF PITTSBURGH that the Pirates are committed to bringing a winning, championship caliber team to this area....Really, many of you 'Apologists' fail to realize the trickle down economics that is going to occur here-the bucs' attendance is dwindling year in and year out & without the HOPE of a future, it will be far worse next year & possibly rival TRS in 2010.....Alvarez is an INTEGRAL piece of the pie - without him, we are far FAR worse off than we were. You know if the Bucs would have retained both/either Nady/Bay, this move would not be soo micro criticized, however, with neither here & with both of our top picks not signed, this rings of more truly crappy teams to come......

bjm wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:17 PM

DK,

Is a renegotiation even allowed after the 8/15 deadline?  

Buc Fever wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:18 PM

RE: Alvarez and the Jagr treatment

I'm pretty sure that if the public is allowed to attend the "signing" press conference when they introduce Pedro, that this little stunt will have earned him boos long before he ever steps foot on the grass at PNC.

Seriously...if Boras is there...I'll walk across the river from my office in Gateway Center and boo him myself.

GoneQuiet wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:19 PM

Other things ron d does for a living:

Teaches logic at a major local university

Demographer/statistician for Pittsburgh's RiverLive Task Force

Volunteer sheriff's deputy, Grammar & Spelling police, Allegheny County's 4th precinct

Writes a monthly column for Modern Maturity called "Here's What YOUR Problem Is!"

Sports Psychologist, Pittsburgh Riverhounds

Pretzel taster, Snyder's of Berlin, Pittsburgh office

Associate editor, Merriam-Webster's College Dictionary

JHadar wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:19 PM

So is Watch going to get an agent to negotiate how big a share of the Hap Cap franchise he's going to get?  

Sammy Khalifa wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:20 PM

Dejan -

I don't understand the cause and effect.  You indicate that the grievance caused Boras to ask for a renegotiation.  I read the Bucs press release the opposite - they allege that Boras wants more money for Alvarez after seeing what everyone else signed for, and the Union is filing the grievance to do Boras' bidding. ????

This convinces me that the new management are not a bunch of stooges.  The prior team would never have the wherewithall to take on Boras in this way.

Go Bucs!

meestro wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:20 PM

Want to reiterate what I said above for those who may be skipping past the 150 comments to get to the fresh stuff.  This press release just made me into a huge fan of Frank Coonley.  It's very obvious that he penned this, given his former job, as well as his current. This is basically a slap to Boras's face reduced to written form. The writing speaks of contradictions and hints at alterior motives, and yet never comes close to slander because it is all factual. Maybe it's just the writer in me, but I love this press release.

JL wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:25 PM

You know, this had been one of the few blogs anywhere where the people were congenially and respectful  each other. Both Ron D and those of you going after him need to back off and cool down. I don't like what's happening to OUR blog, today.

ATLMtneer wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:25 PM

GUYS -- YOU ARE FALLING FOR THE SMOKE AND MIRRORS -- DON'T FALL FOR THE BORAS MAGIC SHOW.

Isn't it obvious that Alvarez isn't able to pass the physical right now, which would void his contract.  This is an OBVIOUS stall and diversion attempt by Boras to buy his client an extra 4-6 weeks of rehab time, by which he will hope to be healthy enough to pass.  

If he reports and fails, he loses the contract.  He doesn't want more money, he wants time to pass the physical.  It would be awesome if the Pirates called his bluff and said, OK Mr. Boras, here is $10 million.  Come take the physical.  But the agent is smart.  He knows the Pirates won't do that.  

Am I the only one who can see through this charade?  

ConcernedChris wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:27 PM

from ESPN

"Boras, reached by ESPN.com, said the matter was a dispute between Major League Baseball and the players' association.

"Pedro Alvarez never received a contract from the Pittsburgh Pirates," Boras told ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick. "We're awaiting the determination of a grievance filed by the union against the commissioner's office."

The team also said it had been assured by the commissioner's office that it's contract with Alvarez is a valid, and that MLB "will vigorously defend any claim to the contrary."

The Pirates bypassed Boras clients previously because they were unwilling to meet his demands for signing bonuses over the slotting system designed when Pirates president Frank Coonelly was a labor lawyer for MLB.

Once Coonelly accepted the Pirates job, he and general manager Neal Huntington said the team would not be scared off by Boras-represented clients and would draft players based on their ability, not their agent.

The signing of Alvarez has been seen as crucial to the future of the Pirates, who are headed for their 16th consecutive losing season. The team's previous management had been criticized for lackluster scouting and drafting, and the signing of Alvarez offered the new management team a chance to break from that history."

What if the players' association wins this? What if NH & FC really did not agree to a contract with Alvarez? That would be HUGE trouble and possibly open the Nutting's to class action lawsuits on behalf of the season ticket holders.

Buc Fever wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:28 PM

Meestro,

I completely agree...that press release was masterful. Jab after jab thrown at Boras with a little bit of factual detail thrown in to back it up.

One thing I was very surprised about was the fact that he mentioned Eric Hosmer and the KC Royals by name. I would have thought it would have been a more veiled "there are other players who signed after Alvarez", but to come out and throw those names around really took some guts. I think he was trying to grab the attention of the other teams around the league as well...and a great way to do it was by basically saying "Ok, well if we lose, the Royals are losing Hosmer as well..." I wonder if Hosmer is already on the horn asking Boras what the $&#& is up.

matt the rat wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:29 PM

I've gone after ron d before. Mostly in good fun though. I like the guy. But its nice that we do have different opinions in here. Everyone brings different things to the table which is a good thing. It just so happens that ron d brings negativity to the table.

Disgruntled Goat wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:31 PM

@almaritn uscgrad

Those are the two ways Boras would like this to end.  There are other ways like:

Alvarez is forced to play for the agreed upon contract with a greatly tarnished reputation and strained relatioinship with his employer.

MLBPA wins the grievance but Alvarez is not granted free agent status so cannot sign with any other team.  Neither is he eligable to return to Vandy since he has signed with an agent.

In any case, Boras is not the loser.

phillyjake wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:32 PM

Wow.  I'd love to read all of this but, if I started now, I'd need until Saturday.

And, I don't need to.  I know what you're all going to say.

I hope MLB keeps him as Pirates property.  And, I hope the Pirates fine him a million.

JHadar wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:32 PM

Is it just me, or is it getting nasty in here?

madturk2008 wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:32 PM

@ConcernedChris

I disagree, we are no better with or without PA. HE HAS NOT PLAYED MAJOR BALL YET!   I say never be held hostage after an agreement has been made.  You are setting yourself up for all agents in the future.

Myself, I can do without PA if he is part of this ploy with Boras.  I don't need the headache now nor in the future when he becomes a free agent.  The offer is there take it or leave it.  We will move on either way.  One person is not the be all or end all of this team.

G-Man wrote re: Union to file grievance regarding Alvarez; status of contract in dispute
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:36 PM

JHadar -

>>The closed style of management and the lack of results for so long have produced a sizable crowd of fans who take every action and happening as deliberate, designed to cheat or irritate fans, cheap, mean spirited, and hard hearted<<

Very well said. Though I choose to give new management the benefit of the doubt (what other choice do I have except to be angry and bitter), I cannot fault the people who feel this way. Trust, once lost, takes an eternity to earn again.