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Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates

By Dejan Kovacevic | 11:17 p.m. Wednesday

Was it a minute before midnight?

A minute after?

The Pirates and first-round draft pick Pedro Alvarez are publicly disputing precisely when the Vanderbilt University third baseman verbally agreed to a $6 million signing bonus -- before or after Major League Baseball's midnight Aug. 15 deadline -- and that could cost the franchise its highest-profile prospect in a decade.

That is, if an arbitrator decides that the passing of the deadline even mattered.

The MLB Players Association today filed a grievance against commissioner Bud Selig's office -- not on behalf of Alvarez, who is not a major league player -- alleging that Alvarez's agreement and others from the same date were executed past midnight and, thus, were in violation of MLB's labor pact. Each side will make its case before arbitrator Shyam Das Sept. 10 in New York, and his ruling will be binding.

The grievance, a copy of which was obtained by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette tonight, charges that Selig's office "unilaterally determined" that negotiations could proceed past midnight. It did not did not name any players, though Alvarez's case largely prompted it. It also did not specify what action the union is seeking, though general counsel Mike Weiner said that will be established after more research.

"It is the union's obligation, on behalf of all players, to defend the integrity of its collectively bargained agreements," Weiner said.

If the arbitrator should rule for the union, according to two baseball executives who declined to be named, he likely will have three courses for action:

> Scrap the previous agreement and send the Pirates and Alvarez into new negotiations. This is known to be the preference of Alvarez's renowned agent, Scott Boras, who would welcome the chance at a higher bonus. But there is no precedent for such a decision.

> Allow Alvarez to go back into the draft class for next year. The Pirates picked him No. 2 overall June 5, and they would be compensated with No. 3 overall next year.

> Decide that his ruling should apply only to future instances.

The executives said the third option is most likely, based on arbitration precedent as it applies to the commissioner using his discretion.

"He would say this is how it's going to be going forward," one executive said.

MLB, which approved the Alvarez agreement as well as those of the others, will build its case on the stance that minor league contracts do not apply within the labor pact as it pertains to this matter. Alvarez's agreement called for a minor league contract.

Rob Manfred, MLB's vice president of labor relations, acknowledged that the commissioner's office granted permission to more than one team -- without specifying the Pirates -- to continue beyond the midnight deadline. But he called the union's grievance "entirely without merit," adding that the deadline "was extended to accept minor league contracts" and that "it is settled law that the arbitration panel has no authority to disturb such minor league contracts."

Pirates president Frank Coonelly, whose job until last year was MLB's general labor counsel, sounded confident that the grievance will be rejected.

"The commissioner's office has assured us that we have a valid contract with Pedro and that it will vigorously defend any claim to the contrary," Coonelly said.

Alvarez had been conspicuously missing since his agreement, and the Pirates attempted to explain that away by citing "travel issues" or other "complications" involving Boras. They also publicly stressed the importance of Alvarez reporting as soon as possible to take his physical, have his introductory news conference and, most important, prepare for a fall playing assignment in Arizona or Hawaii.

Today, though, everything came out in a rush.

It began early in the afternoon with Coonelly issuing a lengthy statement led by the news that the Pirates had placed Alvarez on MLB's restricted list. That is mostly a formality, one that prevents Alvarez from signing with another team.

Deeper into that statement, Coonelly, a long-time rival of Boras because of Coonelly's previous job, charged Boras with telling the Pirates Alvarez will not report unless the team increases the $6 million bonus. He also accused Boras of usurping his client's best interests.

"Regrettably, we are not surprised that Mr. Boras would attempt to raise a meritless legal claim in an effort to compel us to renegotiate Pedro's contract to one more to his liking," Coonelly said.

Boras responded to the statement in a phone interview with the Post-Gazette: "The Pirates violated Major League Baseball rules and have issued a nearly 600-word statement to make their actions out to be my fault. I think it's time for the Pirates and Mr. Coonelly to come clean with the fans of Pittsburgh and let everyone know about their dealings with Pedro Alvarez."

Flashing back to Aug. 15, here is each camp's view of how that evening played out ...

The parties agree that there were several discussions between Boras and general manager Neal Huntington, the Pirates' sole negotiator, in the three days leading up Aug. 15. But, on that date, there was no communication until minutes before midnight.

A source on the Alvarez side maintained yesterday that the Pirates' offer was $5 million. Coonelly wrote in his statement that the Pirates were were "willing and ready to pay Pedro a $6 million signing bonus" right after he was drafted, but no one with the team disputes the $5 million figure for deadline day. Boras' figure was $9.5 million with a major league contract, $8.5 million without.

Each side agreed that Huntington phoned Boras at 11:56 p.m. with the Pirates' offer now up to $6 million. The parties were disconnected two minutes later, then quickly reconnected. This time, it was Alvarez -- seated next to Boras in the agent's California office -- on the phone with Huntington.

The stories mostly split from here ...

A Pirates source maintained that Alvarez almost immediately spoke the words, "I accept," into the phone, thus validating the agreement. Huntington then turned to a nearby assistant and shouted, "Send it!" to relay an emailed copy of the agreement - with all details - to MLB headquarters in New York. The team originally offered two different times for that happening, 11:58 or 11:59. Alvarez then stayed on the phone with Huntington for a short spell, Boras never rejoining the conversation.

Coonelly went so far as to praise Alvarez in his statement for his "tremendous fortitude and independent thinking" in that moment.

The Alvarez side concurred that Alvarez accepted, but the contention is that it occurred after midnight.

Through all this, according to the Pirates source, the team was in touch by phone with MLB headquarters, acknowledging that some of that contact continued beyond midnight. Three other teams also were believed to be in contact with headquarters -- the Kansas City Royals, San Francisco Giants and Washington Nationals -- for similar purposes.

In 2007, MLB granted a midnight exception to the Texas Rangers for outfielder Julio Borbon, a Boras client, the only one before this year under the most recent labor pact.

It is not known which of the three this year might have continued beyond midnight, but Coonelly singled out the Royals in his statement, saying they reached agreement with first baseman Eric Hosmer, another Boras client, after the Pirates did with Alvarez.

"Mr. Boras is apparently satisfied with the $6 million bonus he secured for Mr. Hosmer and has not challenged the validity of that contract," Coonelly said.

The source on the Alvarez side said Boras contacted the union about an hour after the deadline to complain about the extension. The Pirates did not learn of that until two days later, when Huntington first tried to get Alvarez to report.

The sides agreed that no money has yet been discussed in the event that a new set of negotiations be imposed by the arbitrator.

Alvarez's agreement called for $3 million this year, the same amount the next. Because no actual contract was tendered or signed after the agreement -- both sides agree on that, too -- no money has exchanged hands. Even if one had been signed, no money would have been paid until 90 days elapsed.

Coonelly's statement included several clear attempts to steer Alvarez away from Boras, including writing that he was "disappointed" Alvarez would go along with this new course.

"Despite our disappointment, we continue to believe in Pedro Alvarez the person and the baseball player and remain excited to add Pedro to our system," Coonelly said. "We will sit down with Pedro and his family as soon as Mr. Boras' claim is rejected to chart a new and much more productive start to Pedro's career with the Pittsburgh Pirates."

There has been no indication on the Alvarez side of disunity between him and Boras. Nor has there been any indication that Alvarez does not want to play for the Pirates.

PHOTOS: Pedro Alvarez, Vanderbilt University; Frank Coonelly, Keith Srakocic/Associated Press; Scott Boras, Suburban Chicago News


Posted Aug 27 2008, 11:17 PM by Dejan Kovacevic

Comments

Ajumm wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's fate
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 11:36 PM

Great research and write up. The one thing I couldn't find online, especially at the mlb players site (www.mlb.com/.../cba.jsp) was the exact text of the deadline. Even with this trouble, Alvarez is worth the pick. I hope no one takes this as a reason to draft a Moskos.

Las Vegas Pirate Fan wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 11:47 PM

This is certainly a big mess.  Probably blame to go all around.  Boras clearly not happy with a 600+ word statement from FC.  Good.  That makes me laugh.  At least we're not backing down.  

If new negotiations end up being the arbitrator's ruling, Alvarez needs to step up and re-accept the initial offer.  Any demands for more money would certainly give me an awful first impression of this young man.  Although they weren't off to a great start, to begin with, after he picked Boras.

At this point, I wouldn't even care if we end up with the comp pick.  There's plenty of high-end talent next year.  Who knows?  Maybe we'll find someone that actually wants to play baseball.

BuccoNation wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 11:52 PM

To The Dean,

Great job covering this... all day.

The Nation salutes you.

Matt Alexander-DR wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 11:55 PM

Everyone should keep one thing in mind.  Yes, the grievance hearing is going to be the MLBPA vs the commissioner's office.  But would this hearing ever be happening without Boras and his punk client?  No.

For all of you who are saying things like "ohh, eventually he'll get signed and be here and we'll get over it" - I say you are clearly not real pittsburghers or pirate fans.  We never, ever, forget anything.  His career in pittsburgh, whatever it may have been, is over now.  

I'm actually glad it happened now, rather than 5 years from now when he could pull a manny ramirez type 'operation shutdown' and tear apart the clubhouse.

emoneypitt wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Wed, Aug 27 2008 11:57 PM

The most important statement of this thread IMO.......  "Baseball America reported last night that the Royals and Hosmer received permission from MLB and the union to extend talks. The Pirates did not contact the union."

Uh Oh

.

Gibmente wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 12:00 AM

Extraordinary job by you, DK. As a 30-year veteran of the newspaper business, I can truly say this well-researched and, more importantly, well-balanced story by you at the end of a 15-hour workday proves that few reporters, in sports or news, own a beat the way you own the Pirates' coverage.

I just got done putting the first edition of my newspaper to "bed," and I feel compelled to take a minute to offer a testament to your diligence, sense of responsibility and pure dedication to your job and your loyal readers. Tell Micco to give you a 10 percent raise, effective next pay period. You deserve it.

Oops ... I better get back to work on my second edition!

Rich wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 12:04 AM

Dejan ... Thanks for all the details. The one new items that stood out for me - and bothered me - was the PBC mgmt called Pedro at 11:56pm. I thought all along that we offered PA a "fair" contract (which I believe precedent showed that $6 million was). I also assumed that it was Boras who called at the last second to "cave in." If we had a better offer in our pocket, why did we wait until 4 minutes prior to the deadline? To me this is poor clock management. I feel we should have offerred the $6mil as a firm/final second offer either in late June or when we reinitiated discussions three days prior to the deadline. But definitely not 4 minutes prior to the deadline. That's the kind of poor gamesmanship that I was blaming Boras for...

ron d wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 12:05 AM

Boras just can't go away soon enough

Wednesday, August 27, 2008 | Feedback | Print Entry

Well, this is getting interesting. The Pirates supposedly signed Pedro Alvarez, their first-round draft pick, right before the August 15 deadline. But he still hasn't reported to the Pirates, still isn't playing, so he's been placed on the restricted list. And Alvarez's agent, Scott Boras, says Alvarez won't be playing until the Pirates reopen negotiation.

This isn't the first time Boras has tried to "game" the amateur draft. Most famously, in 1996 he found a loophole that resulted in four of his clients -- all first-round draft picks -- being declared free agents, and all four wound up signing for a great deal more money than they otherwise would have. So the guy's no fool. Don't assume he's going to lose just because MLB says he will.

Still, it's worth reviewing MLB's position here. From the Pirates' press release:

"The Pirates are confident that the contract reached with Pedro Alvarez was agreed to and submitted to Major League Baseball in a timely fashion and properly accepted by Major League Baseball. In fact, the contract between the Kansas City Royals and Eric Hosmer, another Boras client, was submitted to the Office of the Commissioner after our contract with Pedro was submitted. Mr. Boras is apparently satisfied with the $6 million bonus that he secured for Mr. Hosmer and has not challenged the validity of that contract. Mr. Boras has been informed that if he pursues a claim that our contract with Pedro was not timely he puts Eric Hosmer's contract with Kansas City in jeopardy.  

Hosmer's contract is an interesting point of reference, but this strikes me as an empty threat. Would the Royals give up Hosmer just to stick it to Boras? I sure don't think so. Granted, MLB might have the power to invalidate Hosmer's contract … But we know that Bud Selig is tight with Royals owner David Glass. Hosmer's not going anywhere.

Anyway, we can only take the Pirates' claim about those contracts at face value. While it's probably true that MLB -- by their own standards -- "properly accepted" both contracts, we don't know if a judge would agree. Perhaps Hosmer's was "properly accepted" and Alvarez's was not. The following might include a hint about Boras' tack …

"The Pirates made several attempts to commence negotiations immediately following the draft and were willing and ready to agree to pay Pedro a $6 million signing bonus from the very outset. Predictably, however, Mr. Boras refused to engage in any negotiations at all until shortly before the August 15 deadline and even then an agreement was reached only after Pedro took control of the negotiations.

"Regrettably, we are not surprised that Mr. Boras would attempt to raise a meritless legal claim in an effort to compel us to renegotiate Pedro's contract to one more to his liking. We are, however, disappointed that Pedro would allow his agent to pursue this claim on his behalf. Pedro showed tremendous fortitude and independent thinking when he agreed to his contract on August 15.  

Now we've hit upon the real source of conflict. It's not that Alvarez didn't get the money he (and Boras) wanted. Nobody ever gets exactly what they want. It's that the Pirates eventually bypassed Boras and convinced Alvarez that maybe $6 million was a pretty fair offer, after all. Boras' entire operation depends on the power of his negotiating tactics. But if the Pirates really offered $6 million on Day 1 and wound up signing Alvarez for $6 million, there wasn't any need for Boras' involvement at all.

You see where this leads, right? If Boras didn't get his client a single extra dollar, why bother? With another agent, you might get the same money without Boras' baggage. At least that's what some top amateur players might be thinking next spring. With their August 15 deadline, MLB backed Boras into a corner. With their private negotiations with Alvarez, the Pirates poked Boras in the groin with a sharp stick. It's not surprising that he's trying to poke back.

Will it work? I don't have any idea. Boras doesn't seem to occupy the high ground, though. If Alvarez remains on the restricted list, he can't play for any MLB-affiliated team, or be drafted again next year. I suspect Boras is simply hoping to squeeze a few hundred thousand more dollars from the Pirates, which would make Alvarez the richest of the 2008 draft picks. Because barring a favorable court ruling, I don't see how this one has a happy ending for Boras and his client.

Speaking of whom -- and it's easy to forget there's actually a 21-year-old kid involved here -- there's an unanswered question: Why would Alvarez agree to a contract in spite of Boras' advice, only to immediately turn around and refuse to sign? I can understand a kid changing his mind, but over a mere pittance?

I'm afraid this is one of those stories that might never be completely written. Not publicly, anyway. Last year I heard a wonderful story about Scott Boras' shenanigans while negotiating a contract for a No. 1 draft pick who's now on the fast track for the Hall of Fame. Everybody who works in baseball has stories like that, and I suspect that most of them are true. But I'm afraid you won't read any of them until Boras takes his millions and retires to a beach somewhere. And as far as I'm concerned, that can't happen soon enough.

WTM wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 12:11 AM

"Baseball America reported last night that the Royals and Hosmer received permission from MLB and the union to extend talks."

Hmm.  I can't find this specific point on BA's site.

The most interesting point I see is the idea that, even if the union wins the grievance, the contract wouldn't necessarily be voided.  Given the emphasis that the grievance is against the Commissioner's office and not the Pirates, the violation would be MLB granting the extension, not the Pirates reaching a deal with Alvarez.  Since the Pirates wouldn't have done anything wrong, it wouldn't necessarily make any sense to void the deal.

It's also interesting that the Pirates are in fact contesting the claim that Alvarez' agreement came after midnight.  If it's just one side's word against the other's, the fact that Boras and Alvarez let the Pirates' public announcement and the extensive publicity over Alvarez' purported signing go unchallenged for 12 days should hurt Boras' and Alvarez' credibility.

Constantino wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 12:13 AM

Great job by Dejan.  One thing I'd note in reference to other articles and comments, not his:

Pedro Alvarez is 21 years old.  He's a grown man, not a kid.  A young man, yes, but a man still.  He can do anything anyone else can in this country pretty much except rent a car and run for president.  Surely he can stand up for himself and, oh yeah, become a hero to a whole city and collect $6 million in the process.  He gets no pass here.

Pirate'eer wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 12:17 AM

O.K.  Never say things can't get worse.  Good luck to you Mr. Alvarez.  I really can't see how he can possibly wear a Pirate's uniform.  This whole ordeal sickens me.  Honestly, I hope they decide to allow a two week window to renegotiate and Coonelly offers $3 million.  Boras laughs and Pedro goes back to Vandy and gets blackballed in next years draft.   Take the comp pick.  Pedro won't be playing pro ball til spring at his rate.  The 2008 pick is now really a 2009 pick whether it is Alvarez or another selection in June.    I am serious about wishing him luck.  It is a shame he is getting caught up in this.  I just don't want the POirates to have anything to do with him at this point.

SandlotWizard wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 12:19 AM

So the reason that Alvarez has not reported thus far leading up to the MLBPA's  grievance:

Is it because Boras saw this as an opening to try to renegotiate?

Is it because Boras/Alvarez anticipated this grievance and decided to wait?

If Alvarez wouldve reported 3 days after he signed his deal and were now playing in the system, would the MLBPA still be bringing up this grievance?  (Hosmer is currently playing).

Dejan Kovacevic wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 12:22 AM

You're right, Wilbur. I misread something. It's out.

CA Pirate wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 12:28 AM

It's all about money. That is always the case with Boras and his clients. Everything else is just smoke.

What a way to start a career. Alvarez has sullied his name even before signing a contract. Perhaps we should just call him J.D. Drew, Jr. I'm not sure if I want him to play for the Pirates or not any more.

Pirate'eer wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 12:28 AM

On another site Boras claims Alvarez wasn't even offered a contract.   If he can prove this will the Pirates lose the comp pick and will Pedro become a free-agent?  

Roschke wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 12:31 AM

I'm hoping they cut ties with Alvarez and look to next year with the third pick plus another top 10 guy. $6mil is a lot of money. With Boras as agent it will only get worse in the future after Pirates develop him. KISS: Keep It Simple Stupid.

JLambertfan58 wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 12:46 AM

in my opinion i think it might be the better decision to get the #3 pick of next year. Pedro and Boras is too much of a headache, and they arent going to go away. Once Pedro's contract is up, we will have to deal with this again, only the next time PBC wont be able to meet Pedro's money demands if he plays as well as he is expected to do. Theres no question the draft class next year is better and deeper. If we get the compensation pick we could easily have the #3 pick and the #4 overall pick in a better draft. Hell if we wanted to we could pick alvarez again if we wanted to. I think the pirates management shouldnt have to make signing Pedro their main priority when getting the compensation pick for alvarez may be a much better option for them

Ken Brett wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 12:50 AM

Random thoughts:

I dont see any basis for the arbitrator to reopen negotiations.  There either is, or is not a contract.  Dangerous game of chicken by Boras and Alvarez.  About as dangerous as Huntington/Coonelly waiting until four minutes before the deadline to make the call.  Gutsy move by the PBC, but very dangerous.  But Alvarez has everything to lose and nothing to gain by going back into the draft next year.  His value will never be higher, and it almost certainly will be lower.  

So does the Collective Bargaining Agreement lump the Commish in with the owners side?  I mean, we know he is, but theoretically isn't he supposed to have some kind of discretionary authority to do things like grant an extension for a minute or two?

I'm still having a hard time understanding why the Union is doing this.  The "integrity of the CBA" rings hollow.

And how hard is it to know when the email was sent.  Most emails are time and date-stamped.  Just show us a copy of the email.

Finally, all of you who criticize Alvarez for listening to Boras are numbskulls.  If you retained the best and toughest agent out there, why in the world would you not listen to him?  I think we can all be pretty certain that Boras is saying things to Alvarez that are very very different than what we are reading here.  One of those things has to do with the Pirates waiting to the last second and putting unreasonable pressure on him.  We can disagree about whether pressure to accept $6M can ever be "unreasonable" of course, but I'm sure that's what Boras is saying.  But again, the deadline system was set up to combat agents like Boras, and does favor the owners - top tier players like Alvarez really are not able to negotiate a contract freely because if they dont sign by the deadline, they are out fo a whole year, and the risk of having your stock or value drop considerably from that top tier is pretty high.  My overall point is that Alvarez is 21, and if I was 21 and had as my agent the guy who got A-Rod $252 Million, I'd listen to him too,

pdxpirate wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 12:55 AM

DK - Great work tracking down all the information posted today.

Not to steal any thunder from you but here is my own short Q&A:

Q: when is a deadline not a deadline

A: when your agent is Scott Boras!

No matter what the arbitration outcome, you have to admire what looks to be MLB's attempt to take away Dr. Evil Scott B.'s favorite leverage tactic... stall until the deadline.

emoneypitt wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 12:55 AM

OK so now that the statement from my original reply in this thread has been retracted, perhaps the Pirates do have a solid case.

Even so, as I said in the previous thread, the relationship has suffered some permanent damage at this point. I just don't see a total forgive and forget happening even if the Pirates win the hearing.

Missing the Burgh wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 12:57 AM

DK, go to bed! great work, Thanks for all your hard work...Pedro...Wake up! Fire Boras! The player's union will win the grievance, but it will apply to future deadlines, your verbal agreement will be ruled valid, and you will be a Pirate. But now because of Boras, you will not be appreciated from the beginning of your career as you should have been without this chaos. Although, if you produce, and resign for a second tour of duty, all will be forgotten.

meestro wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 1:21 AM

Dejan, thanks for the obvious time and effort that was put into this. You made this much, much easier to understand.

Jose Lind's Pants wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 1:34 AM

Any chance this is a sort of foreshadowing to future CBA talks?

While I can't imagine this being any sort of conspired play by Boras and Fehr, I imagine they're both salivating at the chance to turn this into an opportunity to put the Player's Union and the agents further in control of MLB.

It's probably coincidence that the Pirates are the targets, but the fact the Coonelly worked for MLB adds to makes it more delicious in their minds.

Back in reality, maybe this is just a case of two parties interpreting something to their advantage. I know we're in the United States and our Bill of Rights is quite clear and there's never any disagreement about how to interpret them, but maybe for this set of rules "the sky's not yellow, it's chicken."

Paul Alexander's Man Tan wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 1:53 AM

The Pirates love that the contract dispute is taking the attention away from the Class AA product they are putting on the field.

57-76 .429

26 GB

Lost Seven in a row

Elimination #4

Last Place NL Central

Second Worst record in National League

Fourth Worst record in MLB

Andy LaRoche .159 season average

Andy LaRoche .119 average as a Pirate

Andy LaRoche 28 consecutive hitless at bats

Adam LaRoche 98 strikeouts

Ryan Doumit 8 passed balls, 56 stolen bases allowed and 18 men caught stealing

WOW

Andy LaRoche 18 games 6 errors

WOW

SIX MORE LOSSES UNTIL HISTORY

WTM wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 1:55 AM

"Any chance this is a sort of foreshadowing to future CBA talks?"

Probably.  Even before this mess, I saw several stories saying that MLB is likely to make mandatory slotting a higher priority the next time around.  They never pursued it very strongly in the past because they were more concerned with subjects like revenue sharing.  They'll have to make some sort of concession to get it, but the Alvarez fiasco may be the final straw that leads them to do it.

Jose Lind's Pants wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 1:56 AM

www.postgazette.com/.../907591-150.stm

Gene Collier is, as always, dead brilliant. Meanwhile, Ron Cook is trying to figure out new ways to bully an old man into retirement.

PI Stingray wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 3:53 AM

Just when you think things can't get any worse.......I would like to know exactly where Pedro's family stands in this whole mess. Are they gonna let Boras, with his track record, to possibly prolong  the time that Pedro gets to the big leagues? I guess the elder Mr. Alvarez loves driving that taxi!

Baywatch wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 4:02 AM

PI Stingray - Mr. Alvarez may be just as boogered up by Boras as Pedro is ... I'm sure he wants the best for his son; he already demonstrated that by encouraging him to go to college when he could have signed out of high school.

I just got home from work, and read Dejan's article. If this is all just Boras sicking the Player's Union on MLB, then I think in a sense it takes some of the onus off of Pedro ... though I guess he could still step up and say, I'm signing.

I guess I'm still a little confused ... and tired.

Good night.

BuccoFeva wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 9:06 AM

I love the fact that Boras signed not only Hosmar but the kid with the Rangers last year well past the deadline, but because he got what he wanted, he had no issues with that.

This is all about Boras trying too get the highest bonus in the draft so he can maintain his ego among agents.  He couldn't get the FC and NH to cave on the 15th, so now he is holding this over their heads in an extorsion effort to get more money from the PBC.  But because he got what he wanted for Hosmer he is already signed and playing for Kansas City.

At the end of the day, Boras is mad that the FC and NH won this game of chicken and got his client to cave in.  Now he is crying foul.

Funny how Boras even said the kid agreed to the contract, but is now trying to use a minute here or a minute there to back out of the deal or more importantly get more $.  

He is the scum of the earth.

matt the rat wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 9:09 AM

@Matt Alexander-DR

I think you are jumping to way too many conclusions. First, we don't know the whole story. Secondly, if Pedro comes in and plays amazing baseball, all will be forgiven. People (yes us pittsburghers are included) just want to see a winner.

wvbucco wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 9:56 AM

I'd like to see them go to a fixed, mandatory slotting system and a fixed, standard contract which all amatures must sign if they want to turn pro with no exceptions or attachments allowed.  The only thing that would vary from one contract to the next would be the players name, the fixed, slot-determined bonus, and name of the team.  The slotting amounts and the contract terms would be negotiated along with the CBA.  

Buc Fever wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 10:42 AM

WTM,

That excerpt about Hosmer/Royals requesting an extension from the players association was made by Jim Callis during a live chat yesterday, which is probably why you couldn't find it on the website. I'm not sure if they have the chat transcripts on the site.

buc_commander_Jr. wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 10:57 AM

I fully agree with Matt DR that Pedro is a punk.  Also if it was the Royals who requested the deadline, not the Pirates,  it doesn't matter because If a deadline is granted by the MLB commish's office (as I understand it) it is a blanket deadline approval and would cover all teams negiotiating, including other teams who had not officially applied for one.

Teke's_Sunglasses wrote re: Main story: Arbiter to decide Alvarez's future with Pirates
on Thu, Aug 28 2008 3:46 PM

If there was a fixed and mandatory slotting system, wouldn't that reduce signings in the later rounds?