Morning links: Messages for Doug

DK -

One reference to the "lowly" Pirates in the New York Post ... That's all I found out of the papers you told us to check out.

Bay

Good AM How were the wars last night?

It is nice to see the PBC Bloggers step to the plate and swing for the North Side Notch for Dirty Doug and Jodi.

Although nothing specifically about Moday's game,  the following came from the Bergen Record from the Sunday game

www.northjersey.com/.../27064739.html

Pedro too smart for hapless Pirates Sun Aug 17, 2008 PITTSBURGH – Pedro Martinez sat at his locker staring sadly – and empathetically - before the game as Billy Wagner explained to a crowd of reporters the latest pain in his arm. Martinez has b... more...

I ran through the list of papers as our fearless leader DK suggested. Most if not all simply refer to the implosion of the Mets bull pen and John Maine's shoulder issues. You just have to love the way they print their Sports Headlines Especially NY Post

48 point CAPS BOLD

Like the world was coming to an end.

BillyKidd!

Hey, Man the wars were wet but fine last night. Man, I was really moved at the Bloggers outpouring for Doug and Jodie ... I've never seen anything like that.

And G-Man really worded his Hap Cap presentation so well. Did you see it? Man, it was like something right out of Cooperstown, but so much more meaningful.

Just got up to make sure my son was home from the wars, too. He works at the same pizza shop, and closed last night. Just finished high school and already running the place ... right proud of him.

Back to bed ...

BillyKidd and Baywatch -

Are we the only three up at this hour of the night? Guess we are providing proof this is a 24/7 Blog. We need to start thinking about who will cover the Christmas Day shift.  ;)

I always crack up at any mention of "the wars." Always makes me think you (Baywatch) run into Darth Vader on your deliveries. Maybe we should dub them "Pie Wars."

Thanks for the compliment about my Hap Cap post for Doug and Jodi. But the blog comments that, to me, were most poignant were several along the lines of how Doug is a Pittsburgh kind of guy, with which I wholeheartedly agree. There's no higher compliment.

Just to say at least one baseball-related thing to keep this on blog topic: did you guys watch the Indy videos the last couple of days? Bautista is really tearing it up. I wonder if it's the level of competition or if he really had a fire lit under him?

BillyKidd -

Forgot to mention this in my first post. That was a great suggestion you made in the Mientkiewicz thread to keep it solely to messages to Doug and Jodi. That was brilliant. And, obviously, you and Dejan were GMTA about that. Kudos!

Dejan - Thanks for offering to print out and pass along the wishes to Doug. It has been clear from the Q&A feedback going all the way back to spring training that Doug M has been an adopted son of the 'burgh. He needs to know how much he means to the fans. Thanks again.

G-Man -

I did see the video that Dejan linked to above. Good question on Bautista ... whatever the reason is behind his two-game tear, I'd say he's letting his bat do the talking for him. Plus, nice throw from right field.

Will be interesting to see how he plays out ... When DK said it was for sure he's major league material, I wasn't so sure about that. Once he gets his head straightened out, who knows ...

Every day, I stand more and more amazed at how so much of that baseball game seems to be psychological.

GOT to get back to bed. Oh ... BTW - I'll take Christmas Day!

Dejan---

When you print out the good wishes for Doug and family, please DO send an extra copy to FC and NH.  Pittsburgh needs a Doug Mientkiewicz.  He really is the heart and soul of this young team.

Dougie Baseball,

I wanted to wish your wife a very speedy recovery. She is in the prayers of the Bucco Faithful. We have been inspired by your approach to the great game of baseball and I am sure your wife Jodi will have the same aggressive and determined approach to her recovery.

Despite another losing season in the "Burgh, we have seen a difference in our boys since you came on board Mr. M. We have seen how this ball club never gives up, and the 27 wins from behind proves that. We have also seen our very talented catcher, Ryan Doumit, blossom into a leadership role seemingly under your wing. You have brought fight and tenacity to this team, something that has been lacking for over 15 years. So we thank you Dougie Fresh. We appreciate everything you have done for this team and we hope to see you in a Bucco uniform for many years to come, in whatever capacity it may be.

Get well soon Jodi! We are all pulling for you.

In Indy last night:

Jose Bautista got his double off Rays' Super-prospect LHP David Price in the 5th inning.  His 7th inning homer was off reliever Dale Thayer, who is also supposed to be pretty good. The homer went out over the 405' sign in right center.  So, Bautista is doing well against strong competition pitching.

And, Duffy did not get into the game at all last night.  Maybe today.

Our thoughts and prayers are with you. God Bless

Baywatch Wrote:  Every day, I stand more and more amazed at how so much of that baseball game seems to be psychological.

Attributed to Yogi Berra, but actually said by Danny Ozark, "90 percent of this game is half mental."

I think maybe a little of Jose's success can be attributed to lower competition (though certainly not Price who is a stud), but some guys just need to have that fire lit under them, need to feel as if they are disrespected or develop a chip on their shoulder to really elevate their game.  We already have one of those guys in house in the tempermental Ian Snell.  

Not saying it's necessarily a good thing, as clearly it didn't help much earlier this season, but maybe this can be a wakeup call for Jose.

And DK, thanks again for passing our wishes along to Doug.  G-Man mentioned this earlier in the post, and I wish I had thought of it myself, but Doug really is a Pittsburgh kind of guy.

Baywatch

Keith Hernandez is the culprit, not Ron Darling.  

It seemed like every time he had a chance to slam the Pirates, he did.  When the Pirates started to score some runs, he became noticeably quiet.  I get the MLB package and will listen to the other announcers sometimes for perspective. I find the two most arrogant color men are Hernandez and Al Hrabosky, who will be commenting on how pathetic our Bucs are for the next 3 days.  

I think Ron Darling and his Mets sidekick Gary Cohen to be two of the more enjoyable announcers to listen to.    

"Keith Hernandez is the culprit, not Ron Darling.  

It seemed like every time he had a chance to slam the Pirates, he did."

I imagine Pittsburgh conjures up some bad associations for <<snort>> Keith.

I just read Altoona's promotions for the remainder of the season at the bottom of the article DK linked above about Tabata, and one of the highlighted promotions, in honor of the Curve's 10th anniversary, is a "Chris Duffy/J.R. House Tenth Anniversary Photo Ball."  I about spit out my coffee laughing when I read that little tidbit (To be fair, those two were really good down there and I guess the fans like them).

Still though Chris Duffy and JR House together???

Of course, if Duffy continues to make little progress toward being a major leaguer, it may not be long before the fans there can pay tribute to him on a daily basis when he takes the outfield for the Curve.  

"Who does he think he is?"

"I'm Keith Hernandez."

Hopefully the scouting reports and projections about Andy Laroche are correct and that he doesn't turn out to be another Class AAAA player.  Bautista might not have been an All-Star and was inconsistent (but who on the team isn't -- just look at Jack going from Mendoza to Gwynn in one month's time), but his numbers were decent enough and he had a good approach to the game.  He wasn't a long-term solution, but I'm not sure whether Little Laroche is at all either.

Good to hear that Capps lost some weight too -- he seemed heavier to me, but, as Dejan noted in that story, his thick build kinda makes it hard to tell.  The extra weight will make his delivery more laborious though, so losing 15 pounds should make him more efficient with less wear on his shoulder.  Have we heard what his velocity has been like in his last couple appearances?  

Yeah, I think that the Matt Capps/Jack Wilson photoball night might have been a better pick.

Maybe next year, they could put photos of Ian Snell and Chris Duffy on a stress-reliever squishy ball.

I think my favorite poster on this site RON D says it best about andy laroche...

"wake up.. he's nto ..was at the game today...isnt bvery good to hear right...didnt dive on the double in the first inning down the line ..even tho he was playing close to the line and the attempted 'pick' on the ball to his right was brutal...plus he was joggin to 1b on a ground out...hit in the 220s then maybe you can jog once in a while

how is this guy better than bautista-- good on balls right at him--thats it..and u could see in the warmups he throw too much sidearm....wonder the reason torre gave up on him............."

Wow. first of all it would be nice if he made a little sense and secondly i dont understand how he can hate the team that he follows so closely as much as he does. He must be from philly or something because only their fans have so much hate in them

G-Man, Bay -Good AM. Sorry, I crashed after my last post. 6:45 comes pretty early to have to get start ramping up a new day. I flirt with insomnia

SRC-22 and Kekiongas...Very nice post. Would you do DK a favor please? Could you copy your meesages to the  recent post Mientkiewicz on leave; Morgan up it keeps with the continuity and DK isn't printing pages from a dozen or so posts. Thank you very much.

Jose is playing like a man possessed.  I watched the clip DK posted. I truly wonder what is causing his uptick in play as well???

Way to go Jose. Keep it up.

Bay- I will split Christmas with you.

"BillyKidd"- I had already done that once I went back and read the other blog. Thanks for the compliment.

On Bautista...he is a AAAA guy, OR, he is a utillity guy for the bench, NOT an everyday starter. He is too good for AAA, but not a starting 3rd baseman.

On Andy LaRoche...come on folks, we have to give Andy and Moss some time for adjusment. The season is gone anyway. Let them get used to their surroundings and settle in. And don't forget we have played some very good teams lately and faced some very tough pitching. Patience....I know that is something we Pirates fans obviously have!!!

Under the Radar.

Luis Cruz at Indy.  Shortstop/2B who played well at Altoona and since being promoted to Indy has played even better. He is hitting a combined .275(.338 at Indy).  He  is only 24 and played in the Futures game in 2006 while being named to the Southern League South All Star team.  He needs to cut down on his errors however.  

Would be an interesting Sept call up but is not on the 40 man roster.  Anyone for giving him a shot in lieu of Rivas next year?  

i was just joking about andy laroche. i like his approach at the plate and think that he is going to be a solid third basemen. i just love ron d's posts. i dont think i have ever seen him post something positive about this ball club or management. even when something good happens (see the signing of Alvarez, Pedro) he finds some way to turn it into a negative. i love reading his posts so much.

Doug,

I was upset to read yesterday about the ailment that has befallen your wife. As a fellow Pittsburgher I can only hope that you and your family come through this unscathed. You and your family are an asset to this community. During your short time here, you have transcended the role of an athlete making positive headlines and giving us someone to pull for on the field. I hope that you find comfort in knowing that we are still pulling for you harder than ever in this off the field battle.

Best wishes,

from a huge pirates fan

Matt: Ron D seems to be reaching celebrity status on here. I think the Pirates should hire him to do little commentaries (basically reading his posts here) between innings on the Jumbotron at PNC. Maybe one per game, with some flashy cgi graphics. Bill Veeck might've considered it.

Pirateradio: I love the idea. I have been reading this blog since its conception but have just recently started posting. I just remember back around the trade deadline when every single post he made bashed the bay/nady trades. He really hated seeing that offense being broken up like it was, even if they were still losing.

As for Bill Veeck I am not really sure who that is. I am 22 years old and have only been following this team in depth for about 7 years now even though I have been a fan for about 15 years (yep right around their last winning season). Does he date back further than that?

@GrahamKoonce---

Would you do DK a favor, please? Would you copy your get well message to the  recent post:

Mientkiewicz on leave; Morgan up

It keeps with the continuity and that way DK isn't cutting, copying, pasting and printing pages from a dozen or so posts.  We want DM and JM to receive every get well wish from all of their appreciative PBC family and to realize just how much they are appreciated.

Thank you very much.

Cave -

>>Keith Hernandez is the culprit<<

This is kind of sad commentary on the guy: Hernandez had a good career in baseball, yet all I ever think about when I hear his name is that 1-hour Seinfeld episode with the line "That's one magic loogie."

WTM

Sometimes I am caught in a time warp. Was your "snort" reference was about the Dale Berra days in Pittsburgh?

Matt/Rat

Bill Veeck was an owner of the St Louis Browns, Cleveland Indians and the Chicago White Sox in the 40s-60s.  He is best known for signing a midget named Eddie Gaedel Look him up) for a one day contract.  Gaedel stood 3 foot seven and walked in his only MLB plate appearance.  Veeck also was the innovator of the exploding scoreboard.   He was quite the owner.  

The more recent comparable to him was Oakland owner Charlie Finley who kept a pet mule in the bullpen, introduced bright colored uniforms and white shoes to his players and put an olympic sprint champion (Herb Washington) on his roster to be used soley as a DESIGNATED RUNNER.   He also signed Satchel Paige to pitch for his KC team when he was long past his prime.  

Matt: Bill Veeck had nothing to do with the Pirates, but he was a real character who innovated baseball in bazillions of ways. He was all about marketing, but yet he was very real:

en.wikipedia.org/.../Bill_Veeck

www.amazon.com/.../0226852180

http://www.funisgood.net/

matt the rat -

Here's a link to the Bill Veeck (pronounced like "heck") entry in Wikipedia. He owned several MLB teams and was quite the character and innovator. The most remarkable thiing about him is he was not a billionaire owner. THe owner of my local RIchmond hockey club in the SPHL, Allan Harvey, Jr. reminds me a lot of Veeck.

en.wikipedia.org/.../Bill_Veeck

Cave: Thanks for the info. I am always interested in learning new things. Sounds like Veeck was quite the pioneer. If Charlie Finley was still around and was the owner of an NFL team I think that maybe he would go after the olympic sprinter Bolt. Fastest man on earth and he is built like a Pro Bowl WR.

BillyKidd and Baywatch -

If you guys will split the Christmas Day watch here, I'll cover New Year's Eve.

G-Man

Good morning...again

Very nice pick up on the <snort> reference. I missed that one completely.

Can you believe the family here in the PBC Community. I am just blown away by all of the wonderful heartfelt messages for Dirty and Jodi since yesterday.

Hey pirateradio

A little off topic for a sec if you do not mind.

Your avatar..Is that some old Sailor Radio Ham gear?

G-Man

You got a deal and virtual handshake on it from me. Although I will be out here wishing well to the PBC Community/family.

While it's on my mind, let me ask you folks to explain something to me about the blog. What are those 5 little stars on each blog entry about? Sometimes they are empty, sometimes all are gold, sometimes only one or a few are gold. I can click on them when they are empty and make 'em gold. What's that all about?

Morning, Guys (and Dolls)!

Cave and Pirateradio - That was real nice of you guys to bring Matt The Rat (always reminds me of Mack the Knife) up to speed on Bill Veeck.

Matt the Rat - Sounds like you became a fan very early in life. So did I. Cave mentioned A's owner Charlie Finley hiring Satchel Paige to pitch for his team when he was past his prime. I remember reading about that in the paper, and it seems like yesterday. I think I was about 10 years old, but I was already the consummate baseball fan. I'd already heard a little about the legendary Paige.

Going to check real quick and find out when that was, when Satch pitched for the A's ... Hold one (grin) ... Wow. I was just a little off. He pitched one game for the A's in 1965 ... He was 58 and I was 11. And not only did Finley just hire him to pitch one game, it was also just one inning ... he gave up one hit and struck out one.

Bet you didn't count on so many rabbits with one history lesson from you OldTimer Blogger Brothers, did you, Matt the Rat!

Gotta love this stuff more than McDonald's!

I completely agree with BucsTradewinds regarding how the reputation of this franchise is being destroyed by Bob Nutting.  I only wish more people would wake up to the fact that while there are different pieces and faces in place, the money being spent is the same.  Bottom line is that the Pirates won't be contenders on a regular basis until that changes.  A team doesn't need to spend $150 million a year, but the money Nutting is spending continues to be a laugh.  

www.sportsbybrooks.com/brog-mister-frank-mccourt-tear-down-this-wall-19409

"So tho it was a little strange to see so many empty seats without the Pirates in town, it was as pleasant an experience as I’ve had watching professional baseball in Los Angeles County."

GMAN

Maybe those are the Hap Caps to be awarded per blog.  

@Good

Please tell us how much you would have him spend? He spent nearly 10M on JUST KIDS. Yes about 2/3 went to Pedro but they signed 32 of 50 that they picked. Those that did sign must have liked the checks they were offered. You have to start somewhere. I think most will agree 10M is not a bad start.

BillyKidd -

>>Can you believe the family here in the PBC Community. I am just blown away by all of the wonderful heartfelt messages for Dirty and Jodi since yesterday<<

You know, actually, I'm not all that surprised. Back a few weeks, when this blog was new, I happened to click on the menu bar "blogs" link and saw a display of all the PG blogs, the number of entries and the number of comments. The number of comments for the PBC blog was more than all the others combined. And don't forget that included the Penguins going to the SC finals this spring. By the way, they have changed that page and the number of comments no longer appears. I assume that's because the other blogs were being embarrassed.

What has kind of surprised me about this outpouring of concern for Jodi is the number of people who are posting here for the very first time. I saw a lot of unfamilar "handles" and started clicking on the avatars. When that person's page comes up, it lists the number of times they have commented. I think I saw around two dozen first time posters. That says a lot - that people went to the trouble of registering just so they could send good wished to Doug and Jodi.

To reinforce what BillyKidd said, good job, people. I'm proud to be part of a community like this. Back in 1979 the phrase that described the Pirates and their fans was "We Are Family." Apparently, that has not changed much in 29 years.

FC and NH were hired to take over a machine that operated broken for 15 years. There was a belief when they left Bradenton that the pitching was to be far better than it has proven to be. The hitting proved to be better than expected but in order to have something to build from after it was evident that the machine was not fixed (they left Bradenton with largely the same squad from the previous year) and the minors did not have the quality replacements necessary to field a competitive team decisions were made a la Bay Nady Marte. Then nearly 10M was spent on trying to make LONG TERM improvements.

It seems no matter what this management team does or does not do short of digging up the corpses of the heroes of past Pirates teams the naysayers will never be happy.

G-Man said:

"To reinforce what BillyKidd said, good job, people. I'm proud to be part of a community like this. Back in 1979 the phrase that described the Pirates and their fans was "We Are Family." Apparently, that has not changed much in 29 years."

And the whole PBC community cheers! G-Man, John F. Kennedy couldn't have said it better! Spoken from the heart!

BillyKidd

You are right, the naysayers won't ever be happy.  But in their defense, 16 years of ineptetude makes for a powerful imprint on ones psyche.  It is not one that is quickly washed away by a few signings.    

The runaway freight train of negativity will be around until the payroll is increased and the team starts winning.  

Billy

I would love to see him use the Brewers' payroll as a benchmark.  Yes, the Pirates have signed some players...among them a #1 draft pick.  Yes, the payout from that was $10 million or so.  How much did Nutting save by shipping out Nady and Bay?  That is my point...he is just moving money from one shell to another and the overall payroll remains the same.  But to the average fan, the perception is that he is "investing" in young talent.  Take a look at his answer to DK's question the other day when directly asked when he would spend on par with the Brewers.  He gave a lot of blah, blah, blah and did NOT come close to answering the question.

Be convinced, Nutting is the problem.

@ Cave- Thanks for lowering my blood pressure. I agree with your comments.

BillyKidd -

>>It seems no matter what this management team does or does not do short of digging up the corpses of the heroes of past Pirates teams the naysayers will never be happy.<<

Don't get me wrong, BIllyK. you and I are definitely on the same side of the issue; we both believe we have turned a corner by hiring FC and NH, making some trades to bolster the system and spending money on the draft. But I can't really fault the folks who are taking a "show me, I'm from Missouri" view of the Pirates. And there seem to be a lot of them out there, just not so many of them posting on this blog. The PG Mailbox last Sunday gave us a taste of what a lot of folks think and it's less optimistic than what we read here in the blog. So, I will continue to be optimistic and believe things are improving. But these folks have a fair point that has yet to be proven. One day, Bob Nutting also has to spend a lot more money on basic payroll. We'll just have to wait and see. I think we'll get a tast of what's really to come if and when we sign folks like Maholm, Doumit and McClouth to long term contracts.

Am I starting to sound like Bob Smizik?  ;)

I will also add that FC and NH  seem to have their wits about them.  I  think is important for all of us to recognize moves that are made by the above (management) in an attempt to improve the club are quite different than Bob Nutting basically forcing them to work with one hand tied behind their back.

I think we have two forces working in opposite directions....FC and NH vs. Nutting.  How hard it must be for the two of them not to speak out and say what is really holding the franchise back.  Because the reason for the failure also happens to sign their paychecks.

Has anyone been following the LLWS? I have a TV here in my office and during lunch I flipped over to ESPN to catch the kids playing ball.

The kids from Japan are fundamentally more sound than some MLB teams..just joking but you get my drift. If you have a chance they are playing Venezuela now. The teams from Japan are consistently incredible in thier approach. "Thier Right Fielder plays the position as well (HONESTLY) as some of the big boys in MLB" Quote from ESPN announcer.

BillyKidd -

I wonder what do Keith Hernandez and Ron Darling would have to say about these LLWA kids?

About the comments on how the bloggers on here are a community and how this blog has much more traffic and comments than the others:

I think a lot of the credit also has to go to Dejan. He updates this thing regularly and does a great job of keeping us all informed and entertained. And now that this blog has such a strong following there are many other people who post links, news, stats etc. This is by far the best blog (in terms of upkeep) that I have ever read.

BillyKidd -

I agree with everything that you wrote in your first paragraph.

Regarding the comment in the second paragraph about the naysayers never being happy, I would just submit that they will be once the team starts winning again.

16 straight years of losing and the inevitable overtaking of the 1933-1948 Phillies breeds a lot of understandable cynicism.

BillyKidd:

Wouldn't it be nice if we all had a tv in our office/cube? I could really go for some LLWS right now. I guess I will just have to stay entertained by reading this blog.

G-Man Absolutley correct. I am (and this comes from my dad) of the school give credit where credit is due. Focus on the positve of the changeable present and the future and not unchangeable past.

Matt the Rat-  I have to agree with you in regards to this blog.  DK does a great job, and it's great to have an outlet to talk about the Bucs this late in the season.  The last person I could talk to about our Bucs completely boycotted them.  If I mention the Pirates he refuses to acknowledge me, haha.  So thanks to the blog and the followers I don't have to go insane anymore.

@ Matt-I work in an environment that requires me to stay on top of the news. I actually have 3, that are tuned into the 3 big Cable Network Channels

I have moved out of Pittsburgh (born and raised here) on several occasions for work. It seems every time I can I move back.  I am back once again and hope to make it life long, but work will tell that story.  I must say that Pittsburgh does have not only the friendliest people but true caring of others in its heart. We work hard, play hard and take our sports team with us wherever we go.  It does not take a disaster for people to be kind and help one another.

One short story for you all;

I was living in the east bay of San Francisco and I had the opportunity to visit what was called the Pennsylvania Reunion they have once a year.  The people knew if you were new to the party even though there were over a thousand people coming and going.  They would come up to you and asked what's going on at home???  They missed Pa so much! But due to various reasons they were where they were.  They had kabasi, pierogies (no running around the park kind) Polka bands.  Name it Pittsburgh wise and I am sure it was there.  (I even had the post-gazette delivered to me there)

I lived in other states as well and am never amazed that you find transplanted Pittsburghers everywhere.  If you meet someone new you can tell or almost tell they have or had roots in Pittsburgh.

Pittsburghers will even take in others to be one of their own.  See Doug for the latest example.  I am sure some of you guys and gals can add a long list of people.

Once a Pittsburgher you are always a Pittsburgher, heart and soul.

Glad to be home once again and enjoying everyone’s postings.

Folks, I have just been blown away.

The Dougie-Jodi bereavement thread is now up to 89 posts and growing ... I tell you, sometimes you can get jaded on life - and, yes, 16 years of losing - but then something like this happens and it brings it all into perspective ...

Sing it with me, G-Man: "We are Family, I got all my Sisters and Me."

And all the rest of Bloggers, join on in: "Just let me say for the record ... We're giving love in a family dose."

Aw ...heck ... Let's just let Sister Sledge takes us back one more time ... Disco down, and imagine Pops back there in the background, urging the girls, the team, us ... and Doug and Jodi on!

www.youtube.com/watch

BattlinBucs

I know what you mean. While all of my friends are big sports fans they don't follow the pirates as much as me and do not take as much interest in the off the field aspects of the game. I love all sports and follow all of our professional local teams in depth (and I recently graduated from Pitt so I am a huge Pitt football and basketball fan as well) . However, I can't get into Steelers training camp when there is still baseball going on. This blog satisfies all of my baseball needs.

@Good and Chicken---Very good and salient points from which to continue discussions

How much did Nutting save by shipping out Nady and Bay?  That is my point...he is just moving money from one shell to another and the overall payroll remains the same.

@Good I agree with you re: savings but also lets wait and see what happens after this season with upcoming contracts and the FA market. I will jump right on your bandwagon and lead it across the Clemente Bridge if more money is not spent to keep valuable pieces or acquire new more talented players.

@Chicken 16 straight years of losing and the inevitable overtaking of the 1933-1948 Phillies breeds a lot of understandable cynicism.

Absolutely right. How (would love to put an expletive here) depressing is that???  All I am saying is give em a little bit of credit for trying. If they screw up or do not follow through...(read: jumping on bandwagon, above)

GMan

I love Richmond.  Did some work there in the 90's.  Had a chance to visit the Confederate White House, and the Edgar Allen Poe Museum while I was there but sadly it wasn't during baseball season so I didn't get to see the Braves.  

That franchise was instrumental in forging the resurgence of minor league baseball back in the 80's when they built their ballpark using alot of public funds I believe.  

@Bay---OH NO DO NOT go there...You might as well take off the Elvis style disco jumpsuit and platform shoes right now!

"A near-brawl with our Olympic hosts in a baseball game won 9-1 by the U.S. team Monday night resulted in an unexpected outbreak of tension for the international pastime.

Three members of China's team were ejected from the game.

Two collisions at home plate led to an injury to a Chinese catcher and a confrontation with another.

An American player was then hit in the head with a pitch. He was rushed to a hospital, where he was diagnosed with a concussion.

"That was the last straw," said U.S. center fielder Nate Schierholtz, another of the principals."

- - - - -

Maybe it's a good thing Andrew McCutcheon didn't head to the Olympics!

@BillyKidd

Sounds like a pretty interesting job. Watching 3 TVs and still finding time to be a main contributor on this blog...now thats dedication!

G-Man - I like Richmond as well, except for the weather.  Love it when weather people here say "hazy, hot, and humid."  No concept of what that is until you've spent a real summer in Central VA.  I spent 11 years in Fredericksburg, VA, but I wouldn't go back there if you paid me!  Imagine Steeler gameday traffic through town, oh, 12 hours a day, every day, and worse during the Christmas shopping season.

As W.C Fields would say "Priorities my boy. Priorities" Lol. Also if you go to the beginning of this thread you will see I do not sleep much. A somewhat happily divorced Insomniatic workaholic.  

The player hit in the head was Matt LaPorta. He was hit after the U.S. plowed into both of their catchers injuring one of them.

Correct me if I am wrong the rules somewhat say  If the catcher is in the runners path he has the same right to run him over as the the catcher does to block the plate???

I do not think there is a rule that says plunk a player in the head and send him to the hospital on a stretcher if he runs over your catcher.

Yeah I would say it's definitely a good thing McCutchen steered clear of that, not to mention the fact that he hasn't exactly set the world on fire in Indy, and I'd rather have him in Indy honing his skills then half a world away brawling with foreigners and sitting on the bench.

Who would've thought the Chinese were so up on the nuances of baseball to start protecting their players by throwing at the opposing team?  I know its a very new sport to them in China, sounds like they went too far with protecting their teammates.

In the 9th inning of that game a Chinese player hit a home run to make the score 9 to 1. I hadn't seen any of the game prior to that but he was going crazy running around the basepaths, stomped on home plate and really made a scene upon entering his dugout. I guess maybe it was because the game had gotten a little bit out of hand.

I never said it was right. The Chinese are trying to beat America in our best sports and they can't do it. They should stick to gymnastics. They excel at those events.

The Chinese must have been watching old Bob Gibson and Sal Maglie vdeos.  

With a wink and a nudge to Dejan, it is a tragedy that everyone in Altoona was fired.

Pirate ownership is really no different from any corporate board of directors, who represent ownership (stockholders). They hire people to run the operation, and in turn they depend on those people to be fiscally responsible, make sound decisions and tell ownership the truth. It's also true that any ownership or board is slow to react and slow to change, which is why so many US corporations throw buckets of money away (see GM for example) while being led by incompetents.

It looks like ownership was dominated by Ogden Nutting and Kevin McClatchy from 1996-2007 - Bob was the "kid" of the group and probably just "went along". And both Nuttings surely wanted to believe the happy talk they got from McClatchy that the corner was always just about to be turned. He, in his own turn, believed all the talk from Littlefield that again, things were going to be fine, and no, we're spending enough, you just watch, Ol' Dave will make us a winner.

And at last Bob reached a point where he became the dominant Nutting, as finally the "Old Man" started to move out of the way (you don't know much about family dynamics if you don't think Bob's been waiting decades for "Dad" to relinquish control). Bam, McClatchy was told to retire in no uncertain terms. See ya, Littlefield and Tracy. Hello, family cash safe hiding behind Ogden's portrait in the Great Hall of Nutting Manor.

Now Bob's not dumb. He knows he can't just throw cash around like Littlefield (or Steinbrenner) - that's called doing the same stupid thing and expecting different results. But clearly there is a plan - an extremely well-thought-out plan - and the times they are a-changin'. 10 mil is a lot of dough in anybody's book. But what's smart is that 10 mil bought 32, count 'em 32 players. Makes a whole lot more sense than giving 11 mil to Joe Randa and Jeromy Burnitz, doesn't it?

You can't fix the Pirates overnight. It can't be done with the available resources. But IT CAN BE DONE with smarts and a little more patience.

If Bob ultimately hoses us like McClatchy did (I don't really blame Ogden since I think he was completely out of the loop and didn't care) then you can hang him in effigy (only if you can't string him up in person). But let's see - he's been trying to fix this mess for just about a year or so now. Put yourself in his place, knowing the inside info he knows that we don't, and exactly how far along would you be by now? He hasn't been perfect, but there's finally something to look forward to. What would you have to look forward to, if nothing had changed?

Thank you for echoing my sentiments Cisco

Cisco Kid you don't actually happen to be Bob Nutting do you?

Cisco,

I will save a spot on my bandwagon for you.  Billy Kidd already put in his reservation for shotgun (when Nutting doesn't increase payroll.)

Remember, Bob Nutting has been connected to the Pirates for many years (not just one).  True, McClatchey was invovled more before.  But don't forget, he still is.  He is still part of the ownership group and he is still collecting a paycheck from all the revenue that is brought in.  Just because he is not spouting off insignificant quotes for us to read as the mouthpiece of the Bucs, his paycheck is still the same.  Funny, we're not reading much about that in the papers.

Remember not to buy into the "turning the corner" hoopla.  This organization has officially turned the same corner too many times.....and is now going in circles.

Cisco -

Good slant on what may be happening. None of us know what influence Bob Nutting had vs. Ogden during the McClatchey years. I wrote in one of the older threads about the possibility that KM and DL didn't ask for significantly more money and then repeatedly blew the money they did have on retreads FAs. I think that's part of the point you are making. Now that Bob Nutting has made himself a public presence, it's difficult to believe he's planning to continue the identical old ways. He could have just stayed faceless and anonymous and continued to pocket the cash if that was his plan. So, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. But he still has an uphill battle to wage before a lot of the population (Dejan's folks with the pitchforks) will be convinced.

I vastly prefer where we are today than before Littlefield and McClatchey and Tracy were put out to pasture.

Matt you are the only one to finally figure out Cisco is Bob and I am Ogden....lol

Here's something I have been pondering at work today...Is it possible that drafting Moskos over Weiters is a huge plus for this organization?   If we draft Wieters and sign him, the public outcry lessens slightly.  Could that mean that Littlefield would have saved his job?  Imagine 3 or 4 more years of Littlefield. Picture 4 years from now when DL trades Wieters for Matt Herges and Jose Hernandez's cousin.   I think his drafting Moskos is exactly what needed to happen, the dominoes starting toppling over, and now we have an ownership group that seems to be taking us in the right direction.  

Or my statement could be the dumbest thing ever posted, you decide. :)

Don't forget that DK's chat starts in less than 5 minutes.

Diehard & Cave -

I have lived in Richmond since 1973. I really like the area but have never been able to adjust to the heat and humidity. On the other hand, the cold and snow here is just a tiny fraction of what I lived with in Pittsburgh. I took early retirement last year and thought about leaving Richmond, but decided to stay. Obviously, I like it.

Battlin' Bucs,

The ownership group is the same.

The ownership group is the same.

The ownership group is the same.

Repeat after me.....

Argh!!

Battlin--good call. Everything happens for a reason.

BattlinBucs

Obviously Littlefield and Co. leaving the organization was a great thing, I still think it would have happened even if they had signed Weiters. I think he was on his way out with the acquisition of Morris...

matt the rat- My only argument back to you would be that if they sign Wieters, maybe the money isn't there to do something as ludicrous as trading for Matt Morris's contract.

Matt

I agree that Morris was the last straw.  

Makes me wonder how much Bob Nutting learned about baseball in the interim that he now seems committed to doing things properly--remember, he signed off on Morris.  I give him credit for identifying problems and seeking to fix them.  Whether they've made the right calls or not, it's too early to tell, but good management requires adapting to circumstances rather than complaining about them and using them as excuses.

Cisco, just got a break to catch up on this . . . (looks like it's going to be more comments today than the day they traded Bay.)  

I thought your analysis of the ownership dynamics was spot on.  I've had hope for this club ever since the younger Nutting came out and took power.  

I hate losing as much or more than the next guy -- but it's also obvious to me that many of the critics of the rebuilding process, which is finally sane, have never been in business for themselves.

When you have your own money on the line, you hire people and you trust them, and you know that some mistakes and waste are going to happen.  It was prudent for Nutting to give McC and Littlefield a chance "under new management."  Put simply though, they blew it.  Nutting really wasn't ungenerous with his funds -- but the guys who he trusted squandered his money and his trust.  

It doesn't make any difference whether the business is profitable or not if someone is costing you tens of millions of dollars.  

After some clown has come in wasted your resources, the first thing you make sure of when you replace him is that the new guys are competent, that they have a plan, and that they're capable of executing it.

Nutting has pretty much done what he said was going to, and Huntington, Coonelly, and Russell have all followed through in terms of accountability.  They have done that patiently -- not getting rid of people just to make a show, but letting things play out until the course was obvious.  However as Paulino, Morris, Gorzelany and Bautista learned -- there's no free rides either.  Maybe Snell will be next.  

Nutting has also indicated that once the foundation is in place that the major league salary level will come up as players show that they are worth the long-term commitment.  Time will tell, of course, but it seems that he's doing what he said he would do -- which is not necessarily what the great victory starved masses want.

Meanwhile, the internet has created a new kind of baseball fan.  It's now possible to dig further into the workings of the entire operation than it was previously.  To become informed about the status of the minor leagues, scouting, the draft ... all of which in the past required a library of resources.  

So we have the casual fans with win now you cheapskate attitude, who essentially don't seem to realize how broken the system is, and those who have done some poking around to find out what's going on who are showing a little optimism.

I can sympathize with the casual fan, because the product on the field right now is indeed what they say it is; but to stick your head in the sand and say it's never going to change no matter what I think indicates frustration more than it does understanding

If you really delve into it, what must have Littlefield been thinking by acquiring Morris?  

Did he really do it out of desperation to try and save his job?

Nope.  Imagine for a moment, of all the moves he could have made with 11 mil $ to make an impression,  that is the one that he chose.  WHEW.  WHAT A WHOPPER.  

If he didn't do it to save his job then he must have done it to lose his job.  He must have searched for the one thing he could do that would have absolutely ZERO value to the franchise, negative value in fact.  

I think he knew he was on his way out, and Morris was his way of saying Thank You.  

Hey all

first time post. I am a diehard pgh fan and am not trying to defend Mr. Nutting. Has anyone considered that he probably has had a business plan for our beloved pirates. maybe to a fault, he has been too loyal to the people responsible for sinking the ship. maybe he has finally recovered his initial investment from buying the team. I believe the past is the past. he finally got some BASEBALL people to right the ship. FC and NH have done a great job to this point. yes, some of their decisions may not pan out, but I believe they will be successful. the money is coming (Latin Amer complex, the draft as a foundation, turn around in the roster, and probaly more cuts in various personnel in the offseason). the major league roster payroll should be the last part of the structure. I can only HOPE cause that's all I got.

Battlin

That is certainly an interesting theory of yours, and god help me if it that had come to pass, then it truly would have been a bad thing for the PBC for Littlebrain to stick around.

I don't think he would've been around though, even if he had done the right thing and drafted Wieters.  I mean, it's not like most people were on the fence with him before that and the draft was the tipping point.  He was already loathed by Pirate fans everywhere, and that was just another instance with which to spew our venom.  Plus, I think Nutting, after observing Littlebrain for a season would still have come to the same conclusion that this man was not fit for running a major league team.  Certainly, though, that wasn't the dumbest thing ever posted, as you feared.

should have read all the comments before posting. several others stated my opinion better than I.

props to:

Cisco Kid

G Man

Piano legs Hickman

JHadar &

anyone else with similar sentiments

I really hope that Nutting would have still let him go if he would have landed Wieters, but it could be a difficult thing to do if media outlets everywhere are praising the draft pick and the Pirates front office for getting it done.  

I am still in disbelief how he managed to manipulate people into keeping his job for so long.  I will miss his drafts though.

@ G-Man....

I loved my 3 years in richmond back in the 90s -- I miss it -- heat, humidity n'all.  

@JHadar

Nice analysis.  And props on a wonderfully obscure screen name--I had to reach way back on that one.

Has anyone actually seen Tabata play yet?  His initial performance makes me hopeful, but so did Warren Morris's.

PL Hickman wrote:  Nice analysis.  And props on a wonderfully obscure screen name--I had to reach way back on that one.

Actually, it's my real name

www.hadarathletic.com/Policies__Guarantees

I enjoyed the original star trek when I was a kid, but didn't follow the next generation.  One day somebody started joking and I had to have it explained to me.