Today: Pirates-Cubs, 8-1-08; Andy LaRoche is 'our third baseman'

Let's do this.

It's gonna be weird out there today.

Couldn't they have kept # 38 vacant for just awhile?

(shaking my head at this Pirates organization)

Agree with you about not issuing #38 so soon.....

Have there been any reactions form players other than the happiness of larouche having his brother with him?

I  guess this means Doumit and Mientkiewicz are the vocal leaders?  

Do trades of guys like Nady and Bay make someone like Mientkiewiz want to stay and put in roots or does it make him want to leave?  Hes become a fav of mine and would like to see him stick around.

Gene Collier's comment about the decimation of Pirates minor league life has given birth to me, CometLittlefield!

The rest of the season should be extremely interesting watching to see how/if these new guys perform. My wife should be even more annoyed with my incomprehensible following of this team.

#38 should have been held back at LEAST until the end of the season. Geez...show some respect for a guy who sold more jerseys and drew more fans than any other player over the past 5 years.

I truly don't think this organization is concerned with showing respect to it's players or fans.....  

   : (

DK,

How many other pitchers have the last name of Morris?  I'd like to know so I can keep track of them since the PBC will trade for one of them next year.

Since this whole trade ended up being a really good thing for Scott Boras, any chance he'll work with us a little easier to get Alvarez signed? I think if we get him signed, along with the Fresno boys and the other two top 10 picks we have out there, we all of a sudden have a deep organization with *gasp* potential to be good for a change.

Anyone notice Kontos gave up 1 hit in 8 innings with 13 strikeouts vs the Curve last night.  

DK, who makes the decisions on what number is assigned, anyway? I have a hard time figuring a big shot like Neal "A Teammate, a Friend, a Brother" Huntington makes those kind of decisions, but at the same time I wouldn't figure it to be the equipment manager either.

I mean, what's the statement, too: "Let's make this clear, public - Here it is, fastball, right over the heart of the plate: WE'RE NOT GOING TO RETIRE HIS NUMBER."

Or ...

"He was a teammate, a friend and a brother. And to perpetuate that memory, Hansen's going to wear his number for the rest of the year and with every blistering fastball he throws ... Well, we'll just win one for the Bayer (sung to the tune of The Gipper)."

Then again, maybe they aren't trying to make a statement ... maybe out of popular numbers?

What would be a hoot is if they give Bay Ramirez' old number!

But, no doubt, for whatever reason, giving out Bay's number just-like-that was just tacky.

Nevermind.  I just figured out who PBC will trade for next year:

Judson Ryan Morris (4th round pick in 2006 by Cleveland).  Can't wait to pick him up in the next trading deadline trade.

Dejan,

So, any soup today for the PBC?

On the business of assigning numbers: I wonder if there are practical matters that dominated, such as the fact that the team was less than 30 minutes away from boarding the bus/plane to Chicago. Maybe it's as simple as which jerseys were available with numbers already sewn on and only nameplates needed to be prepared. I imagine those could be sewn up in Pittsburgh and fed-exed to Chicago by today (or carried there by DK on his red eye flight last night). In hockey, I have seen where players were acquired during a road trip and wore X number, then changed numbers once the team came back home.

The loser Curve is like the Pirates and every other team in their organization: They make all opposing pitchers look like Sandy Koufax.

48jj - why do you say that?

Aw, I take that back: Our hitting really has come around this year.

Better put, "AS RECENTLY AS LAST YEAR, the Pirates were making all opposing pitchers look like Sandy Koufax." The ripple is still found in their minor league system.

I agree with Bucco_Jax.  For goodness sake, keep #38 off limits until spring training.

Also, how will the LaRoche brother's names appear on their jerseys?  Can't use A. LaRoche.  Could it be LaRoche on one and A. LaRoche on the other?  Maybe they'll put their entire names?

As usual, G-Man, the voice of reason.

You get a Hap, and are nominated for site psychologist.

But make no mistake - DK is not a clubhouse boy, and does not field Sprites, much less carry replacement numbers on red-eye flights.

(Actually, I'm a little confused: Was it DK or Meyer that Munoz thought was a clubhouse boy?)

Who cares about numbers? Kendall took Van Slyke's 18 right after he left and Van Slyke was WAY more popular than Bay. It's not like 38 is the equivalent of 21, 42 or 23...in fact it is very Fullback-ish.

Maybe I'm just too old, but #39 will always mean Dave Parker to me. I think Moss would have lesser shoes to fill wearing #38 than #39.

Don't get me wrong, I remember the Dave Parker "beached whale" years too, but I prefer to harken back to the Cobra's happier days.

Maybe the LaRoches can wear handles, like we do. I'd be willing to trade my Baywatch and become Adam LaRoche ... I never was much of a hit in the spring anyway.

Whoaaaaa!

Seriously, I'm echoing the cries about #38... There are plenty of available numbers, the number should not be used at least for a few years, have some respect.

Hopefully, when they get home from road trip, #38 goes back to being unused for awhile....

Maybe Hansen asked for the number 38? Don't players ask for numbers opposed to being assigned numbers?

Also, DK has been fairly quiet about this trade, you think?

I can not believe that they are giving Moss number 39.  Only Dave Parker should wear that number.

@JoeBucco

even before the trades of Nady & Bay, the Pirates had PLENTY of money to work with-As illustrated by their profit making SMALLER MARKET BREWERS (which have a much SMALLER MARKET using the same benchmark as the welfare bucs love to use) - This team has anywhere between $20-$30M to spare....they should give Alvarez $10M tomorrow & be done with all of the haggling----The Bucs are a PRIME EXAMPLE of what happens when there is no salary FLOOR

This "keep 38 vacant for a while" talk is simply ridiculous.

Are you guys new to baseball?

I've never heard of any team ever doing that. Bay was good, but its not like he was the second coming of Willie Stargell.

Kontos -remember he's pitching against the Curve, not the 1960 NYY........

This is a technical question, and maybe I'm just slow, but has anyone seen the Q & A in about a week or so?

Hansen's command has been a little suspect lately, and if he came in here asking for Bay's number, that's one strike against him ... I'm just playing around a little here.

I thought about that, too, though. I mean, I always wanted #12, Joe Namath's number, regardless of whether it was baseball or basketball.

Football? I never liked the way the thing bounced.

If having 2 "A. LaRoches" on the back of the jerseys isn't cool enough, then the Pirates should go XFL. "He Hate Me"'s already been done, but I'm sure they come up with some interesting names...

Of course, this could also lead to wire-suspended cameras cruising around PNC and scantily clad Pirates cheerleaders running through the aisles.

I was hoping one of the newbie would have a bit more personality and bust out the coveted 00 jersey. That would win us over quickly

have we verified if andy hits from april-june?

if so, I propose:

andy laroche's name on jersey:  apr-jun

adam laroche's name on jersey:  jul-oct

yeah, oct -- I'm trying to be optimistic.....

Now here's a dang thought ... What did they put on the backs of those Waner boys - Paul and Lloyd - who played for the Pirates way back in the day.

Maybe in memory to them, Adam could have "Big Poison" on his jersey; and Andy could have "Little Poison" on his!

How 'bout a big Windows "Tah-Dah!" for that one. (Alright, you can bust me back to hapless, and take me off soup and put me on Sprite ... just don't take the "H" off my cap!)

pirateradio -

    I like your idea of using an XFL-type nameplate for Andy LaRoche. How about "CAN HIT IN APRIL"? Ouch! I was thinking that they could go with full names. We know that they will fit on the jersey. Both Andy LaRoche and Adam LaRoche are shorter than Van Benschoten.

Craig should legally change his last name to Bay, saving us a couple hundred bucks and we can throw that money into scouting potential draft picks we can't sign, scouting guys riding the pine at Chavez Ravine and/or Fenway Park and scouting 20 year olds in the waiting rooms of Dr. Andrews, Dr. Yochim and Dr. Jobe

Go21Bucs, THAT is just too funny! LOL!

Yikes! Just thought about who the Pirates traded for. The next time a diving catch is made in left, Greg Brown will shout, "Annnnnd Brandon's not letting the Moss grow in left field!!!!"

It's going to happen.

On the bright side about the number: I'm stitching HANSEN on the back of my No. 38 jersey as we speak...

Jimbo, DK had indicated earlier in the week that he would wait until after the trade deadline to do a Q/A, since that is what most questions would be about anyway.

Dejan's put in a LOT of effort this week to keep us updated...even on his days off...which is greatly appreciated by me, and I'm sure by many others. I know the Q/A's will be back when things are a little quieter.

We traded Jason Bay. We did not trade a guy that has a spot picked out in Cooperstown. The discussion about the number 38 not being used is a little childish. It is a business and in business emotions have no part. We were going to finish last with him and so we will finish last without him. But when you woke up this morning, believe it or not, this team now has more talent than it did two weeks ago. The Pirates added a 3B, LF, RP, and three SP that will play immediately and an OF and SP that have tremendous upside. Look at the minor league report in the Pirates Notebook those numbers are terrible. They do not have one guy in the minors that is tearing it up. Bay, Nady and Marte would have skipped across the Clemente Bridge when free agency allowed them and the PBC would have got what? Draft picks? Instead they got 8 players that they have seen face opponents that have already gone to their prom. If you think we did not get enough put it this way, Would you give up Andrew McCutchen and Brad Lincoln for Matt Holliday?

Baywatch-

I'm relying on memory here, but I think Bill Veeck was the first to put names on uniforms in the second half of the 1940s when he owned the Indians, so the Waners didn't have to worry about it.

Dejan,

Just how tickled is Adam LaRoche about the trade?  I am sure he is sad to lose #38 but to play with your brother, thats got to be cool...

Correct - no names on jerseys that early.  That's why Ty Cobb's "name" only is retired on the wall in Detriot.

Alright, just a bit of post-Dave Parker #39 Numerology 101 for those feeling cheated that The Cobra's number has been given out:

In 1984, before His BeachWhaledness had hardly vacated his locker, his number was given to the ex-Athletics speedster Mitchell Page - who didn't even come to the plate.

In 1985, they gave #39 to R.J. Reynolds who wore it that year, then switched to his old #23 in 1986. He wore #23 until he left the Bucs in 1990.

No Pirate wore #39 from 1990 until 1997, then WHOEVER makes those decisions started handing it out right and left - up until last year.

Everyone who wore #39 from there on out were pitchers:

1997 - Jeff Wallace AND Jeff Granger

1999-2000 - Jeff Wallace

2001 - Mike Fetters

2002 - Mike Fetters and Al Reyes

2003 to part-way through 2006 - John Grabow (Grabow switched to #34, Kris Benson's old No.

2006-07 - A name that's near and dear to all of us Marty McLeary

Compliments of Baseball-Almanac.com

P.S. The Fullbackish Bob Robertson wore Bay's #38 back when Jase was just a gleam in his father's eye.

Good for the Bucs making LaRoche the starting 3B!  Now let's hope he performs like the #1 prospect in one of the deepest systems in the majors who has supposedly been major league ready for a year and a half.  Sure would be nice to have that kinda pedigree work out of the home team.

I'm wondering why JR likes to hit Jack Wilson at the bottom of the order so much.  He's really one of our better hitters, especially with our lineup now depleted of Bay and Nady.  

I'm wondering why JR likes to hit Jack Wilson at the bottom of the order so much.  He's really one of our better hitters, especially with our lineup now depleted of Bay and Nady.  

DK

The Boston Globe did have an article on JBay coming in: check this link : www.boston.com/.../hollywood_ending

Re. Waners #s. The only reason that 33 is retired for Honus Wagner is because that was his number when he came back & coached in the '40s. He didn't have his name on the jersey. Like donburgh said, the names were a creation of Bill Veeck. I think he came up with those when he ran the Browns. Given their team in the late '40s (and most of their existance), the names were probably really helpful for the fans.

Should be interesting to see how Bautista reacts to this. He clearly won't ever be a top flight 3B and will move into a utility role. Techinically should make the bench better but have a feeling that Bautista will not handle this well and become even less productive.

I really like Jose Bautista in a UT role.  

He can play all 3 OF positions and 3B right now.  He was a slightly below-average starter at 3B but will be an above-average UT guy.  

Andy Laroche is probably the best candidate to be playing 1B when/if Alvarez is ready.  Irony.

I really like Jose Bautista in a UT role.  

He can play all 3 OF positions and 3B right now.  He was a slightly below-average starter at 3B but will be an above-average UT guy.  

Andy Laroche is probably the best candidate to be playing 1B when/if Alvarez is ready.  Irony.

I don't know that you give Alvarez that much money without ever proving anything.  He may be great, he may be a bust.  Give him a fair contract a little less than the guy picked in front of him and a little more than the guy picked after him.

Re the LaRoches:

I've seen teams in the past use the first two letters of a first name to differentiate.

I.E. AD LaRoche and AN LaRoche

Not sure if they'll do that in this case, but I've seen it done before.

"Bay was good, but its not like he was the second coming of Willie Stargell."

Yeah I was starting to wonder if I'm the only one thinking this.  Wasn't just last season people were trashing the guy and blaming the lost season on him?  My memory is not so bad that I can't remember the nightly calls to sports talk shows with people making rude and inappropriate comments about his sexual preference, describing his defense as effeminent, lazy, sloppy and a whole host of uncomplimentary things.  Now all of  a sudden he's the the foundation of the franchise, the face of the team and the salt  of the earth?  Gimmee a freaking break already.

There is certain segment of the fan base who are going to complain no matter what the front office does, the same people who complained when Rincon was traded for Giles and complained again when Giles was traded for Bay, until the team starts winning...

Which going to be sooner that Paul Meyers and most of the complainers realize.

I agree, Joe Bucco -

Not only that, but it would also give Boras the feeling that he can walk all over them.  Remember last year when the reports were $8-$10 million for Wieters?  After taking it up almost right to the deadline, he settled for $6.

Yeah. Actually, I was thinking that since names are a fairly recent-history addition, we could take Bautista's name off his jersey (since Denny is in essence the regular now) and replace it with "I Play Againts the Nationals."

Is that less letters than Van Benschoten?

And I'm also curious to see what other players have said other than LaRoche.  I haven't seen any quotes yet and based on NH's comment, it doesn't seem as if they were real happy about it.

Is it wrong to think we are absolutley going to get throttled by the Cubs this weekend?  I mean they beat us down bad with Nady and Bay.  Plus the Cubs are coming off of sweeping the Brew Crew in Milwaukee and will be walking tall going back into Wrigley.

Happy trails to Bay, he was a solid as a pro as the Pirates have had.  Plus he will always have the distiction of being the first ROY in club history.

Here's to hoping that the same old story for the Bucs has a happier ending this time around.  

Baywatch: Cool post! My wife still wears my old Dave Parker shorts (grey "sweatshirtish" material with Pirates logo & #39 on the leg). Now, if I want to bore her to tears, I can run through all of the players who wore #39. I'm sure she'd never wear'em again.

In one of the few games that we've seen in person over the past decade, Marty McLeary pitched a great game in late 2006. I think that was against the Reds?

Interesting. Just dug around a little & discovered that McLeary's now pitching for the Lotte Giants of the S. Korean baseball league. But, he's not wearing 39 (or even 38). He's #74.

@SandlotWizard Most scouting reports on LaRoche vs. Alvarez seem to indicate there's a greater chance that Alvarez will be the one ending up at 1B, not LaRoche.  There was a lot of debate when the pick was made whether Alvarez projected as a major league 3B defensively.  The Pirates were of the not unanimous opinion that he did.

"He's really one of our better hitters, especially with our lineup now depleted of Bay and Nady."

Jack Wilson is one of the worst hitters earning seven figures in the major leagues.  His glove and tendency to put mustard on every routine play while trying to make the highlight reel is the only thing keeping his career alive.  It's amazing how few people realize the Pirates have a better record when Wilson's not in the lineup - 24-26 when he's not playing 26-32 when he does.  Not to say it's all his fault but really his contributions to the team are greatly over estimated.

If there's one more trade to be made please let it be Wilson because that 7 million can be put to much better use.

I think during the brief period when Jack Wilson and Josh Wilson were both on the active roster the names on the uniforms were JA WILSON and JO WILSON.

today is the start of the future(minus McCutchen) Lets hope it goes well

kingsmill

"The discussion about the number 38 not being used is a little childish. It is a business and in business emotions have no part."

I receive no part of the profits from the team so baseball is not a business for me, it's a passion. Besides, by virtue of having bought tickets and merchandise, and most importantly the fact that it's a free country, my opinion is just as valid as any other. The team should have waited to use 38.

I wouldn't even want the 38 if I was that guy. Maybe he'll switch to something else. Nady was 29 when he first went to the Yankees, but he's back to 22.

uncledirtnap

"Wasn't just last season people were trashing the guy and blaming the lost season on him? Now all of  a sudden he's the the foundation of the franchise, the face of the team..."

I have never once trashed Bay. I may groan when he strikes out, particularly in a key situation, but he's been one of my favorites even all through last season which wasn't as good as usual for him. And yes, he was the face of this franchise. Now we'll have to see who can step up to take his place, but I would have liked for it to be Bay for his entire career.

I hope we sign Alvarez. If we do, I'd say we'll be kicking some serious rear end by 2010. "Kicking Rear End in 2010?" I like it better than "We Will." Hmmm. I think I still need more rest after Deadline Watch. Gonna take a little nap and be back up in time for The John Russell Show.

(I wonder what John's pre-game pep talk will be like)

"Men, of all the days you're ever going to live, THIS will be one of them."

mattenat:

Unfortunately, both Alvarez and Laroche have questionmarks about their ability to stay at 3B for the long haul.  I'm with you on this line of thinking.  

Alvarez, however, is the better athlete and has more potential to improve at 3B.  Laroche has a bit of an injury history (back, shoulder) and doesn't have the best 'body.'  Hopefully he will take a page from Doumit on this and get in better shape.  Athletically speaking, Laroche would benefit more from a move to 1B, and 5 years from now Alvarez will probably be a better 3B.

Perhaps the best thing to come out of this:  Competition

Next year we will have Laroche, Walker, and maybe Alvarez fighting for 3B, 1B, and maybe RF.  That is what depth in the system does for you, and thats a good thing.    

"There was a lot of debate when the pick was made whether Alvarez projected as a major league 3B defensively."

The Pirates also have Matt Hague knocking the snot out of the ball at Hickory (.948 OPS .548 SLG .400 OBP) and playing third as well.  If Adam LaRoche is more inclined to sign a bargain contract to stay with his brother for a few years at least some of these guys are moving to corner outfield spots.

Man, when was the last time the Pirates were this deep at the corners, if ever?

Big day today. Here's hoping the wind blows out when we hit and in when the scrubbies hit

While I wasn't sure what to think about the trades so far, I agree that Wilson needs to be traded now.  There's not really much of a reason to spend that kind of money now.  The way they were thinking, it appears to me that they were destined to move Bay.  So I'm a little shocked Wilson wasn't moved yesterday as well.

First post (testing).  Wanted to share my appreciation of DK's and PM's incredible effort on this blog (especially yesterday), the website, and in print.

I wish we had a better team for you both to cover.

Why is everyone so upset about Hansen waering 38, he needed a number and got one. heres an idea, why don't we leave bays locker untouched in case he returns like the Packers did for brett favre. How about we stop everyone from wearing nady and marte's number indefinetly also. lets keep jason bays fan club together in left field also. the deal is over with, look toward the future, not the past, were going to start winning with younger prospects, not with older vets who are passing their prime.

What are the chances that Wilson could be traded between now and the end of the season?  Would he slip through on a trade if a contending team lost a SS due to injury?

Maybe one of the new guys should wear 82! :-)

Who cares who wears what number?  They're just that, numbers.  Bay is not one of us anymore, he's one of them.  No looking back, only forward.

14 days left to sign Alvarez.

Surprisingly, I have not seen this mentioned anywhere, but has everyone dismissed the possibility that the Pirates could still sign Bay after his contract expires at the end of the 2009 season? Maybe one of those "Look Jason, we really love the way you play the game, but honestly we're not going to compete this year and odds are we won't next year either. How about we trade you to a contender so you can compete for the next year and a half. Then, the minute you become a free agent, we'll be giving you a call."

I mean, what a coup that would be to end up with all these prospects AND get Bay back for 2010.

Don't get me wrong, I realize the odds of any of that happening are terribly slim, but if this management group was seriously considering signing him to an extension...maybe it could have some merit. The Bucs get 4 prospects and clear Bay's salary for next year. Then they can resign him in a year if they really want to bring him back.

Again, not saying it's going to happen, just that it was a possibility.

Baywatch, Bob Robertson didn't wear #38, Bob Moose did (and threw a no hitter wearing it). Robertson wore 25 and 27 his first year or so, then changed to #7.

Buc Fever.....YES, YES!!!  Go with it, go with it!!  

The buzzkill is that Bay would make the Bucs pay, depending on his play in Bostin.

BF - I actually thought the same thing briefly this morning.  Let me make two things clear:

1. I don't think it will happen

2. I can't imagine a talk like that ever took place

I just thought about 'what if' they thought they could contend in 2010.  Again, don't think it will happen, but it could if we're 'in the market' by then...although, I don't think they'd go after anyone until mid-year 2010, so that would rule it out.

To be honest, I was a little surprised that since we ended up dealing with the Dodgers, that Wilson wasn't included in some way. They were really the primary team that seemed to be after him and they still had some interesting prospects.

But, I still don't see the need to ship Jack off. Yeah, he is overpaid, but I fully expect that he could be resigned at a much lower rate after the 2009 season. With absolutely no legit SS prospects anywhere on the horizon, would it really be all that bad to keep Jack around for another few years? It's not like they'll put that money saved to use elsewhere. After his current deal expires, I could see him being a $4-$5 million player, which would be completely acceptable for a player of his defensive prowess and average-slightly below average bat.

Am I the only one thinking this way?

I'm lost - how is playing Moss in RF for 1 game "acclimating him?"  

"What are the chances that Wilson could be traded between now and the end of the season?"  

Depends on what you mean.  He'd have to clear waivers which probably wouldn't be to difficult so for that aspect the chances are good.  Problem is that while Jack is a charming fella and well liked by the locals I doubt there are many contending teams that view themselves as being a slick fielding no hit short stop away from winning it... so I'd be very doubtful anyone would be interested at this point and there's very little chance in that regard.

Could happen but I wouldn't hold my breath.

One other thing I've not seen anywhere else yet:

The reports are that the Pirates were able to make this trade at the last minute because of their familiarity with the Dodgers prospects during the Wilson talks.  Has anyone seen any reports about who was being rumored as a possible return?  Just wondering who might have been on the table for Wilson instead of Bay.

Wilson may not be traded this season, but I have a hunch that management is far from done replenishing the entire system.  I'm looking for a lot of movement this winter and HOPEFULLY a couple of key rookie signings within a week or so.

I agree with the minority point of view that we got rid of a good player, not great....He wasnt on pace to get 100 rbi this (97 at his current pace).With the same number of hr.'s this year as last, he had 20 more rbi last yr.....

Great guy - good player, he  will be missed.....And on a lousy team, he was an important piece.....But there wont be enshrinement for him in Cooperstown, which if you read some of the comments, he was heading there...

If the Pirates are thinking about resigning Bay in 2010 then things have gone terribly wrong meaning that all the outfield prospects and/or potential outfield prospects have bombed.

Assuming the Pirates sign Alvarez I don't think people realize just how deep the Pirates suddenly are at the corners right now after having been so barren for so long.

Only one of Alvarez, LaRoche or Hauge is going to be playing third so two of them could potentially move to the OF.  Then there's Moss, Romak, MCutchen and Tabata to sort through for which ever OF spot McLouth isn't manning.  Add Robbie Grossman into the mix if they're lucky and the Pirates are in a pretty good spot for the future right now.

Dirtbag Laroche is the man. Here's to the first of hopefully many cheap shots from the corner family.

From Tony Gwynn on ESPN after the Giles trade:

The Padres gave up some good young players. Oliver Perez, a left-handed starter, has a chance to be a quality pitcher, and minor-league outfielder Jason Bay has the potential to become a good major-league hitter. Earlier, Xavier Nady was said to be part of this deal, so I'm somewhat surprised to see Bay involved.

Giles was a premier talent when we traded him, and we got back two decent prospects, but we wanted Nady and not Bay.  Lets see these new guys play a few games before we jump in the Allegheny.

Lets not forget... Nate McClouth is the new face of the franchise, could there be a better guy?  All Star, should have been the starter, in his first full year of playing time, when he had to win a job in spring training from NYGER MORGAN!!!!  If he gets some help from McCutch, Pearce, Tabata, or Moss, it may not take too long for your PBC outfield to become elite again.

I am impressed that gameday has the new guys' pictures with Pirates hats already!

Dirtbag is batting 1.000 as a Pirate

From Jimbo:

"This is a technical question, and maybe I'm just slow, but has anyone seen the Q & A in about a week or so?"

One of the lesser noted trades before the July 31st deadline was the trade of a regular and predictable Q&A for this Blog.  We now talk into thin air, whereas we previously had regular "conversations."  In some respects we have become as much of an afterthought as the proverbial player to be named.  No soup for Dejan and his PG cohorts until the end of the season.

Is Luis Rivas seriously our leadoff hitter?

Hey, Thunder, thanks for the correction.

By-the-Sea, I'd say "acclimating" Moss in right field means letting him play where he's used to playing one game to help him get over the first-game-in-a-Pirates-uniform jitters.

He struck out, but man I liked the look of Moss at the plate. Some attitude: a confident looking face, a throw-it-up here and let me hit it look about it - and a tatoo!

The new look.

Why didn't we keep Duffy and DFA Nyjer?  

(Inspired by GetYoungTalent's post )

With the sudden depth at all corners I think NH an FC wil use this to give Alvarez an ultimatum and try to set a standard for signing draft choices.  They'll make a 'reasonable' offer and not budge.  If they loose Alvarez, they take that comp pick next year and clean up on some of that quality pitching that is supposed to be in next year's draft.  If that happens will they have 2 picks in the top 10 next year?

so far so good...........2-0 after two inn........Karstens throwing strikes...would be a nice morale boost to take game 1 after all that has transpired in the last week.

It looks like Karstens is the player we were hoping for. He can bunt!

Baywatch:

>>Is that less letters than Van Benschoten?<<

Heck, the Gettysburg address and Declaration of Independence are shorter than than Van Benschoten.

SandlotWizard:

>>Perhaps the best thing to come out of this:  Competition<<

You read my mind. Look what happened to Penguins goalie Marc Andre Fleury after Ty Conklin went on a killer tear replacing him during the injury last season. A little competition cannot hurt.

Looking a week or so ahead, what roster move do you folks expect the Bucs to make when Adam LaRoche comes of the DL?

I'd already give LaRoche the pedigree and moxey edge over Bautista, but did anyone beside me notice, from his last at bat, how slow he is running down the first base line? I didn't figure ANYBODY was a slower runner than Bautista.

I guess we'll see how the trades pan out over time. I'm sure many of you remember we once traded Manny Sanguillen to Oakland for manager Chuck Tanner, and won our last world series within three years. That trade worked out ok.

Karstens off to a good start in his first appearance... how long until Jeff Andrews messes his head up and has him walking 2 runners per inning and getting yanked out by the 5th inning?

hmm... karstens doesn't look too bad... and the guy can sure lay down a bunt!

Good question, G-Man, knowing also that Ohlendorf will be up soon, too.

I just looked at the 25-man roster. Maybe they'd send down a couple of pitchers like Beam or Jason Davis.

Would they put someone like Gomez on waivers?

phillyjake -

Because Morgan is at least healthy most of the time.  Not to mention, he's probably a little faster than Duffy and right now, either of them would only be good in a pinch-running role...not that it matters, because the Pirates never run.

with two utility men (rivas and bautista, plus meinkewitz, when sanchez and laroche are back), isnt gomez pretty much through with the pirates... Id be surprised if the buccos keep him.... especially with michaels, and dougie can also play outfield... i like davis and beam though...

Four innings and he's still pitching!  I hereby declare the trade a success!

Off topic a bit -

doesn anybody know who the Pirates got in the Craig Wilson to Seattle trade last month?

Anyone else think that maybe Gorzo might be the next Steve Blass? Maybe he has just lost control?

I haven't heard much from him since his demotion to the minors other than he hasn't gone deep yet.

Maybe I have it all wrong. Just throwing it out there.

Best thing about the day after the "big trade"?  It's only a little over 60 days until the first puck drops!

LET'S GO PENS!

Here's an article just up on ESPN.COM declaring the Pirates losers after these trades:

sports.espn.go.com/.../story

While I don't know if I'd call them losers, I do agree with the sentiment in there that we didn't get even one slam-dunk type of guy.

pghwins - I think only cash or future considerations, but I could be wrong.

Bautista covers most positions as a utility guy so i think decisions on who gets sent where will come down to leadership and development.  I think they'll keep Eyechart, but i wouldn't be surprised if they didn't try to work out a few trades still for Rivas, Chavez and Gomez.  It's not impossible for those guys to make it through waivers.

It's frustrating to read comments such as the one in Jayson Stark's column on ESPN.com today when a GM states he doesn't think the Pirates did well this week because they didn't get an "Evan Longoria type player." Hello! Who's dumb enough to give up such a player? Anyway, Tabata still has a chance to be such a guy by what some say about him.

Everyone from ESPN on down seems intent on giving their trade analysis within minutes of learning of the deal.  Me, I think that's insane, so I decided to wait 22 hours and 50 minutes.  Here's my analysis:

LaRoche scored!  Karstens pitched 5 shut out innings already, AND he knows how to bunt!!  The Pirates cleaned up in this trade!

"Anyone else think that maybe Gorzo might be the next Steve Blass? Maybe he has just lost control?

I haven't heard much from him since his demotion to the minors other than he hasn't gone deep yet."

BJ - He's actually done pretty well down there.  I think he's had three starts - his first one was only so-so, but his last two have been good (I think he's only given up 1-2 runs in 5-6 innings of each one).  I think it will take at least 1-2 more good start(s) before he comes up...although Herrera is looking like he won't be around too much longer.

What was JR's quote about Karstens...something like, "...we're not asking him to pitch 8 shutout innings." Heck, how often have we gotten 5 in a row this year?

karstens has pitched five scoreless against the hottest team in the NL right now (four game sweep at milwaukee)... I know its day one, but lets all be honest, what would the score be if JVB was out there?

At least now we dont have a guarenteed loss every five days...

Ya gotta like Karstin's composure thus far...

Not sure what you mean by slam-dunk type guy, Aramis.  Did you see Bay, Nady or Marte as slam-dunk guys? Or, I guess the thinking is we get slam-dunk guys from the minors for older, former slam-dunk guys? Just curious ... I figure you mean a guy with the talent of Bay, anyway.

I read the article from ESPN, but I also read one from SI which declared them if not winners than not losers...

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../index.html

I was really bummed yesterday, even though we all knew this was a likelihood... But I have to say I do fee better after watching the clip of NH talking about the trade. Even though it's tempting to jump on the Buccos since we've seen this same thing for the last 15 years, I am inclined to give the new management team the benefit of the doubt, until I have enough evidence to the contrary.

I just can't wait until the Bucs are winners again, and I can say to all my friends who make fun of me (I live in Yankee/Met territory), "I stuck through the hard times", and it will make victory that much sweeter...

but I am an eternal optimist.

I think the last "slam-dunk" guy we had was Chris Young

thanks AramisRamirez=HOF

At the time of the deal, it was announced that the player-to-be-named was to be named within 2 days or so, but I never saw anything else about it.  Sometimes those minor deals can work out well.  You never know what a change in scenery can do for a player.

anybody else watching jbay and the boston media right now?

Hey, AlleghenyFishing. Nice photo of the LaRoche boys!

Looking at past stats, it appears Karstens WHIP may be an issue.  Looks like we are seeing that today with his 4 walks.   Looking at the scoreboard, can't complain though.

Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports, who seems to enjoy Pirate bashing, called the deal a win-win-win trade for the three teams. That's encouraging. One of his cohorts listed the Pirates in the deadline winners catergory, especially liking Andy Laroche.

Karstens worked himself out of two consecutive bases loaded jams and then another with runners on second and third. Great poise under pressure. I agree though, that the walks need to go away.

So, when was the last Pirate shutout?

Six shutout innings for Karstens - compared to what the rest of the staff has done against the Cubs this year he's Cy Young.  A couple of spots with control problems, but worked out of it.  Good poise, made the pitch he needed to when he needed to.  Lots of off-speed stuff down, the infield defense needs to stay on its toes!

It's been lonely for a Bucs fan in Chicago this year, I'll take this anytime!

Jack Wilson: 3-for-3 with a double and an RBI.  Hold on...  Yep, it's August 1st.  I can set my calendar to when he goes from ice cold to red hot.  He must really like Pittsburgh.

i was just thinking the same thing about the last shutout...

I know it's only one game, but when was the last time a pitcher making his first start for the Pirates pitched this well?   Seems like it's been ages.   Nice way to get the "new era" underway.  

5 Hits and 4 walks in six innings isn't exactly the stuff that Cy Youngs are made of.  The fact that nobody scored is a bigger sign of luck than it is of great pitching.  Color me ambivelent.  

6 walks and no runs... i wouldnt count on that happening too often...

I'm keeping up-to-date with the game on ESPN... I find it interesting how many of the Bucs' headshots have different teams' caps on... LaRoche, Moss, Michaels, Karstens AND Bautista...

Not too bad from Burnett. When G-Man asked who goes down when LaRoche comes off the DL (and I note that Ohlendorf will be coming soon), I was thinking they might send Burnett down. But I think he's showing some more composure lately. Still, nothing extremely sharp or intimidating from Burnett. We'll see.

>I find it interesting how many of the Bucs' headshots have different teams' caps on... LaRoche, Moss, Michaels, Karstens AND Bautista...

ESPN's photoshop skills are off the chain.

If i am not mistaken, didn't Duke go 8-1 with a sub 3 ERA his first time around the league?

Didn't we beat the Astros 8-0 last time we were in Houson?

Dougie Fresh--- 0 for 5....he may kill someone.

Last shutout before today was

June 20th......was the 1-0, 12 inning game against Toronto.

Nice start to the new era of Bucco baseball. Karstens did well enough to shutout the Cubs for 6 IP, just needs to cut down on the walks. I agree with John Russell moving McLouth to third but not a fan of Sanchez in the leadoff spot. Why not use Moss with his background on high OBP, that way the lineup is more balanced.

Holy Cow.  I know we've all been trained to be pessimistic when it comes to the Bucs, but are we really complaining about one of our new pitchers throwing 6 shutout innings at Wrigley Field because he walked himself into a couple jams???  I'll admit, there were times where I was like "Dude, let's try throwing a strike," but at the end of the day, was there one person out there whose realistic expectations were not exceeded by Karstens, not to mention the entire staff's SHUTOUT?  Go Bucs.

That last comment was certainly not directed at your comment, Eric. I agree with you, but your post showed up while I was typing.

After the last two days, for the first time in years, I have hope for the future of this team. Thanks Neal

Jason Davis will be demoted I believe Sean Burnett would be out of options and I highly doubt the Pirates would want to risk losing him

Just happy for the team -

That is all

It's always nice to beat the Cubs.

It was nice to see Burnett come in a and get a big out today.

Wow.  I just can't get over what will be viewed as an unbelievably unlikely win today.  Of course, all the talking heads will attribute it to a letdown on the Cubs' part after such a huge sweep of the Brewers, which may be partly true, but hey, a win is a win.

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I can't wait for 2011...or 2012... or 2013... or...

Names on backs of uniforms is a dumb idea whose time should come to and end. It is laughable to see visiting teams esp Rockies and Marlins whose contrasts are so poor that you cannot even read them

Get some class like to Yankees and Red Sox

By the way, who cares anyway. This is a baseball website names and who wears what numbers don't matter. Also, I heard that the Yankees are going to have to switch to the alphabet because they have so many retired numbers.

TheWu420:

You are correct about Burnett being out of options. I'm sure most of us remember the angst many of us went through at the end of spring training when he was put through waivers while Uh-oh-sorio made the team. What I don't know is if a player has to go through waivers more than once per season or if he gets a free pass if he clears once. I know that you can be optioned over and over in a season and it only counts as one option.

Dejan,

I'd be really interested in close scrutiny, observations, and impressions of the news guys over the next few weeks if you think of it.

Really enjoy the blog. More information, more frequently.

Good stuff.

Baywatch -

A slam-dunk prospect generally means someone who is generally regarded as a guy who will eventually be a star.  I'm not saying any of our guys can't become stars, but the article was pointing out that none of them are really top prospects.  Tabata is probably considered to be the closest thing to that, but even he has some question marks about him.

You'd think that with this many prospects that at least 1-2 of them would turn out to be pretty quality guys, but you can't point to one and say 'he'll definitely be one.'  I know those types of guys are hard to come by and generally teams don't let them go - just pointing out as the article says that there wasn't one included in this deal.

That said, Karstens looked great today.

G-Man -

I could be completely wrong, but I think they would have to pass through again.

I agree with the #38 thing.  It doesn't really matter and we'll all forget about it before not too long, but it would have been a nice recognition of Bay's time with the Pirates.  Also, I wanted to thank you, Dejan, for all the great work you've done keeping all of us up to date.  Ice down those typing fingers and have a good weekend.