Trade with Tampa for Bay fails

DK, what happens when all these rumors turn out to be untrue? Someone should be held accountable!

The twists and turns in these sagas are amazing.  At the end of the day, if we're not getting enough in return, I'd rather hold on to Bay and look again in the offseason.  I'm glad NH isn't dealing Bay just to deal him.

As the world turns...

As much as I'd like a haul for him, I'm happy to see him stay.  (Yeah, I know there's 100 minutes left)

And, my 7 year old will be happy too!

RUMORS!!!!

ACCOUNTABILITY!!!!

PACKAGE DEAL!!!!

PROSPECTSCASHMONEYBLINGMILLIONS!!!!

THE INFORMATION IS COMING TOO FAST

BASEBALL IS GOING TO EXPLODE!!!!!!ELEVEN

Can we expect updates every two minutes for the next hour and a half?

Can we expect updates every two minutes for the next hour and a half?

I realize traffic is high, but the load times for this site are almost unbearable right now.

Bay would've been a a national hero in Toronto.

I'm liking NH thus far.

Loading/Refreshing the Blog takes about two days short of forever.

Is it top heavy with all these comments (can you put the back issues into an archive?) or is just the high traffic?

But when are the Astros gonna fly in with a big offer for Bay, the final piece of their championship team?

Littlefield was often criticized by other clubs for asking way too much for his players.  Is this another case of that or is Bay legitimately worth the amount and quality prospects Huntington is asking for?  

I personally would be sad to see Bay go, but this team needs pitching and Bay is the obvious bargaining chip.

The question to me becomes to the Bucs have the players on the big club to trade away to get the kind of players they need?  Or are we going to have to try and build through the draft(which can be tough to do for pitching, just ask DL)

OK.  Time for everyone to say what a bad GM NH is because he didn't trade Bay.

No wonder the Jays balked...Marcum and Snider would've been nice. Marcum hasn't been healthy all year, but he's a stable major-league pitcher. Still like what I'm hearing though on the Tampa front.

psu2002: I think the difference is that Littlefield wanted to trade those players.  NH doesn't necessarily want to trade Bay.  If the offer is enough, great.

It becomes more and more likely that Bay stays and I will not be disappointed. Look, he's only 29 and very productive.

DK has noted several times that he is affordable in the Pirates minds. To move him for less than value is NOT an option for our ballclub. Besides, once again, trades often come after the trade deadline particularly as the season progresses and teams fighting in their races become tighter.

No worries for me as long as NH keeps his cool and sticks to his guns as far as Bay's value.

I would not be sorry to see a few minor deals involving Paulino and Grabow though to add a few middle prospects.

Nice to hear that NH is actually expecting value for his pieces and not trading just to keep up the appearance that he's improving the team (DL).

I don't understand Tampa Bay in these talks. For the first time in their history they have a chance for the playoffs. In their shoes, I would be willing to trade one of their 3 top pitching prospects though maybe not Price. When they are this close to the playoffs, they need to take at least a partial short term view. Instead, it appears they will nothing at the deadline to strengthen the team. Hoping Baldelli gets healthy is nice but not worth the bet.

If the price for Toronto was Marcum/Snider, the price for Tampa Bay has to include either Wade Davis or Hellickson, along with Reid Brignac, plus 2 other low minors guys.  

Why such high demands for Toronto, but not TB?

As much as I like Bay, I still think a deal has to get done.  I can't imagine is value would be higher in the offseason.  

Who says they HAVE to trade him in the offseason though. If he has another season like this one next year (which isn't unreasonable to think) his value will be higher as he continues to distance himself from those two bad years. Why not demand the actual value for the guy? Even if his value stays the same...maybe next year someone is willing to pay full price or you can sign him or you get picks; win, win, win to me.

Even if no deal gets done (maybe especially if no deal gets done), I'd say kudos to NH.  Everyone out there still seems to expect the Pirates organization to cave and take what other want to give us.  Nothing wrong with keeping a decent left fielder who's good for 30 hr/100 rbi if the offers not right.

There's been some speculation around the net in comments (so a Fathead's sandwhich-sized grain of salt) that the Red Sox are just trying to keep the Pirates and Rays from dancing, or at least are trying to drive up the price the Rays pay, and are inserting themselves into talks that they don't intend to culminate.

It can only be good for the Bucs if the Rays and Red Sox are proxy fighting through us, right?

i keep clearing my browser and this thing loads about as fast as adam laroche runs

gotta feeling that someone that is not in the front line is going to get moved.......wilson? doug m? michaels?

I don't care what this team does at this point. I like Bay and would prefer for him to be with the Pirates. However, this ownership and front office can not be trusted. They weren't going to shop anyone because no one needed to be traded. And they had to be blown over to trade people. Now they are calling practically every team in MLB in order to move Bay. They seem so determined to accomplish that, I'll bet they accept whatever they can get by 4 PM. Remember,

Nutting is all about the money.

I am a huge J. Bay fan, he has been one of the main reasons I have continued to follow and endure Pirates baseball, and I would make me so happy to see him kept and have the team built around him.  He makes me believe in the buccos some nights. He plays hard..he plays hurt. He is a ball player in every sense of the word.

I understand our need for talent, and if he were to go I believe he deserves a contender and a chance to win. But if he does not leave and wishes to stay, please NH let Bay play!

Pingback from  Sox-Pirates-Marlins Update Thursday « Yankees News

"Or are we going to have to try and build through the draft(which can be tough to do for pitching, just ask DL)" -psu2002

DL could make fixing a sandwich look difficult.

"Makes one wonder if the Pirates really wanted to move Bay, or they just wanted to see if they could land something really good."

That was the impression I had all along.

trades.mlblogs.com/.../rays_to_acquire_bay.html

Bill Chastain of MLB.com says Bay to Tampa for Brignac and Niemann is a done deal.

MLB.com (as pulled off mlbtraderumors.com) reporting Bay to the Rays for Niemann & Brignac. Sounds like that was the best NH could get. Somewhat disappointing, if true.

DL always reminded me of that Family Guy episode where Peter is trying to negotiate for a casket:

Peter: How much for this one?

Salesman: That one is $2000

Peter: I'll give you $200

Salesman: But it's a $2000 casket

Peter: How about $5000?

Translated to LittleYield speak:

DL: Hey there, I'm auctioning off Aramis Ramirez, He'd look very nice at third base for the next decade for you guys!

Cubs: Sounds great, what do you want?

DL: Nothing less than Kerry Wood AND Mark Prior

Cubs: Are you out of your mind?

DL: Ok, we can swap Wood for Harry Carrey

Cubs: But Dave, Harry's been dead for years!

DL: So you're saying no deal?

Cubs: ...uhhhh....

DL: Ok, Bobby Hill, Matt Peterson and Jose Hernandez...that's my final offer!

Sounds like the deal is done, including Brignac and Niemann.

Hold firm NH! If he's just seeing what he can get as Dejan reports in the 3pm update, good for him. The Pirates aren't in business to supply other teams' needs. Brignac and Neimann doesn't  sound like enough. Neimann has had arm problems throughout his career and we've been through that with Burnett, JVB, Bullngton et all.

Pingback from  Desperate Rumours, etc. « The Mockingbird

MLB.com is saying that Bay for Reid Brignac and Jeff Niemann is official.

Brignac in Nieman is NOT enough.

Man that would be terrible if that is all he gets for Bay! There better be a few other mid level prospects as well...

C'mon NH hold firm or hold on!

Rotoworld and MLB.com reporting trade has been completed(still waiting on Ray's brass to confirm) Bay for Niemann and Brignac.

if this is true we got hosed again

A source told MLB.com that the Rays will get Jason Bay from the Pirates for Reid Brignac and Jeff Niemann.

It's a very good trade for the Rays if true. Brignac is one of the game's top infield prospects, but the Rays were able avoid surrendering a second top-notch talent for a player they'd have under control at a very modest price through the end of 2009. If the Pirates trade Bay without getting an outfielder, they could call up Nyjer Morgan to help out. Andrew McCutchen is another possibility, but there's little reason to think he's ready. Jul. 31 - 3:09 pm et

if this is true we got hosed again

A source told MLB.com that the Rays will get Jason Bay from the Pirates for Reid Brignac and Jeff Niemann.

It's a very good trade for the Rays if true. Brignac is one of the game's top infield prospects, but the Rays were able avoid surrendering a second top-notch talent for a player they'd have under control at a very modest price through the end of 2009. If the Pirates trade Bay without getting an outfielder, they could call up Nyjer Morgan to help out. Andrew McCutchen is another possibility, but there's little reason to think he's ready. Jul. 31 - 3:09 pm et

Brignac is a .250 hitter at AAA this year? 7 HR and 4 SB - Why is he such a commodity again?

I agree Ron D.  This has all the appearances of another cave job in Pirateville.  

Brignac is a strikeout machine, his sister Ashley better be in the deal too.

Neal - don't hurt me like this baby...

If it is Brignac and Niemann, and likely some other lesser players....

This means the Pirates made these blockbuster trades and turned the team over without getting a frontline starting pitching prospect.

Unless there is a high-ceiling Low-A pitcher in there, it seems that the Pirates couldnt' get what they wanted.

Que Serra Serra--what will be will be

Who will they get, we shall see

Could good or bad, like others were

If only we could be sure

In the dessert for another year

But we will still will cheer

For those player we hold dear

If this is true, then it's an absolute disgrace.

All we've been hearing about is the Pirates would have to be 'blown away' to deal Bay.  Either the reports were BS or the Pirates management has been yanking our chains, willing to deal Bay all along for anything they could get.

I really hope this deal does not go down.  You're telling me that one of the top outfielders in baseball under 30 (who is signed for another year after this at a very reasonable rate) can't warrant a single top prospect?  If that's the case, then hold onto him.  He's said all along he wants to stay.  Give him a 3 year deal at about $10 million per.  This team still has enough talent on offense (Doumit and McClouth along with LaRoche and Sanchez who can still hit) to build around.

I'm sick of this crap.  Get a top prospect or don't flinch.

If this is the trade, then the Pirates lied.  Everything pointed towards them having to be blown away to move Bay.  If these two names blew them away, they're delusional.  The 3 team trade was a hurricane, this is an afternoon shower.

Looks more like a salary dump than a "restocking" deal.

If this turns out to be a done deal, I will have to agree with one of the earlier posts that this is clearly a SALARY DUMP!

Without landing the front end starter, or at least TWO top level prospects for our best player, Neal Dumpington will be OFF the Christmas list and my ticket package $ will be spent elsewhere next season.

Sorry Mr. Coonelly, but the charade is clearly over.

Sandlot - Exactly correct.  To give up three highly-desired players wanted by more than one team and not receive at least ONE top-level pitching prospect is incomprehensible...especially when two of those guys are under contract at very reasonable amounts next year.

I'm hoping this is not going down.

Please let this report be unfounded.  Arthur Rhodes brought a better pitching prospect than Jeff Niemann (TB's version of JVB).

trying to get more buc stuff on espn 1250 and they're bablling about fat ass casey hampton--unfrigginbelievable

Bay is staying according to MBLog.com

Jamie Moyer's fastball thinks this page loads way too slow.

Unless the three-way deal had a chance of getting done, if Bay is staying, this is the right move in my opinion.  To get Hermida and maybe three other prospects would have been a good deal.  But if that wasn't available, then I'd rather hold onto Bay and try to sign him.

And even the success of the three-way deal still hinged (at least immediately) on Hermida who's...another outfielder.  We're in need of pitching and infielders with power.

He should be a prime player for at least five years and if he really wants to stay, we should try to re-sign him.  

Report out of Boston that Ramirez traded to Dodgers with Bay to Boston.

So it looks like Bay wasn't sold off for a manure farm.  If so, kudos to Huntington and staff for not caving.  

I just read Bay traded to the Dodgers and then to the Sox.

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../index.html

Bay to Bosox, Manny to LA, 4 prospects to The 'Burgh

Fair Warning - Ditto that

The Pirates keep talking about adding depth, but to trade top-notch major league talent for only above average minor leaguers, even a pitcher, that won’t amount to much at the major league level, is really hard to understand.  This is what the Pirates have done every year during their long losing stretch.  Here’s a news flash for the Pirates:  If you continue to do the same things, YOU ARE GOING TO GET THE SAME RESULTS!  I don’t see anything different from the Pirates, if they move Bay for the two mentioned Tampa prospects. I hope reports of a dead deal are true!

Looks like ESPN is reporting it, too...haven't seen any names yet though.  Pleeeeeease be good prospects and not a dozen maple bats.

"Pittsburgh gets Craign Hansen and Brandon Moss, both from Boston, as well as third baseman Andy LaRoche from the Dodgers and a fourth minor leaguer who has yet to be confirmed."

Great work today Dejean - the blog is the perfect format for this (although maybe some new servers).  Can't wait to see all the info about what was offered for who even if nothing goes down.  

ESPN's saying the prospects are Andy LaRoche, Bryan Morris, Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen.

Andy La roche, Craig Hansen, Brandon Moss, and a AA pitcher to the Bucs.  Ramirez yet to ok trade.  That is all I have

This brings to mind an old adage:

When it's all said and done,

there's more said than done.

Kudos are apparently in order for NH and the other Pirates brass in not accepting a less than adequate deal, just for the sake of making a deal.

Remember, folks, that Bay ain't chopped liver. He is a mighty fine ballplayer, a standup guy, a presence in both the clubhouse and the community, and a player who has stated often that he wants to remain in Pittsburgh.

It is my fervent hope that NH now signs Bay to a three-year extension. Bay, Doumit, McCouth, Freddy, La Roche, and McCutcheon could spearhead a mighty fine offense for years to come.

"Pittsburgh gets pitcher Craig Hansen and outfielder Brandon Moss, both from Boston, as well as third baseman Andy LaRoche and right-handed pitcher Bryan Morris from the Dodgers."

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../index.html

We got castoffs from Boston and another LaRoche.  This is my worst nightmare.  

Another young 3B? Alverez, Walker. Someone's going to have to learn a new position. Hopefully this trade turns out as good as the last Boston-Pittsburgh deal involving Freddie Sanchez.

MLB blog also talks about Bay and LA, and mentions the possibility of Manny being involved.

trades.mlblogs.com/.../bay_in_dodger_blue.html

NH = Sid Thrift.  This is an excellent deal for the Buccos.