Karstens coming; Coonelly statement; Huntington speaks (with audio)

Does that mean Pearce is starting tonight, DK, or is he just available?

Thanks for the info.

DK,

With the updated names, is this trade still seen with a bad "wow" around your sources/contacts?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Russell go to Grabow in the 9th since there are teams inquiring about him as well.  Who would you guys like to see in that spot?

I see we're back to a 3B platoon.  Russell seems to have figured out Bautista's career pattern of getting blistering hot for about a month and then going completely in the tank for the next three months.

Dejan,

Please let Mr. Coonelly know you HAVE to reach .500 before you can compete for championships!  "Outhouse to the Penthouse" stories, while entertaining, are hardly common in major league baseball.  Perhaps he needs to sit in the general admission seats with some fans before making such an OBVIOUS spin statement to an ANGRY fan base - no smart Frand - not smart at all!

I think a good poll for fans would be "would you like to see the Pirates continue 5 year rebuilding plan # 4 or invest in winning NOW?"

I am not the only one that believes that we should of waited a little longer before pulling the trigger on this one.  The same players would have been on the table on the 31st.  Played our hand a little early.  Nady had one more year, although, arbitration was going to increase in salary significantly.  With Marte, what is the going rate on a very good left handed relief pitcher?  I dont know, but 6 million on a pick up option for teams like NYY, Boston, etc. is a steal.  And to get  "maybe ready for MLB" pitchers and a young outfielder that may have issues, head case and injury prone.  He may be a younger and smaller version of "Manny", but please.  

Heck, I'm rambling...........Go Bucs, where ever that may be....

Bay and Grabow for some combination of Neimman, Davis, Brignac, etc from the rays and Wilson + for Laroche!   then we can look forward to a 2011 lineup (sorry Dejan) like this :

Mccutchen - LF

Mclouth - RF

Tabata - CF (These guys could all move around as long as Mclouth ends up in a corner)

Alvarez - 3B

Doumit - C

Hague - 1B

LaRoche - 2B

Brignac

Pitchers

Snell, Gorzo, Maholm, Duke, Karstens, Ohlendorf, McCutchen, Lincoln, Moskos, Neimman, etc  - alot to choose from.

This quote from Mr. Coonelly's statement nearly brought my supper up:

"While our aggressive draft and international signing strategies are critical components of this effort, the trade market can present the opportunity to acquire multiple players who are Major League ready or much closer to contributing to the Major League Club."

While I liked the team's choices for the draft in 2008, I think I would be a little more conservative in trumpeting success until the #1 Draft pick is actually SIGNED,  Exactly how many of the TOP 5 Picks have signed contracts Frank?  While the strategy may be good, it doesn't mean anything until they are signed!

I'd like to second BJM's question: are the new

names considered any better then the original

two?

coonelly's statement sure seems to clear up this statement from an article earlier this week:

"The story was that Coonelly was so intent on breaking the Pirates' 15-year string of sub-.500 finishes that he was hindering Huntington's efforts to trade players and build a base for the future."

source: www.sportsline.com/.../10908026

good to see they're on the same page.

This team was never going to compete for a title, now or in the next few years,  with the pitching that it had.  The minors were as bereft of good pitchers as the Pirates had been.  I realize that only time will tell, but Im thrilled to see the addition of 3 pitchers as well as the potential that Tabta brings.  

patiowfd35,

Have you heard about this thing called A and B level "free agents?"  Teams like St. Louis actually signed a pitcher by the name of Lohse during the off season.  They are also available to Pittsburgh, if someone writes them a contract and a check!  Neal Huntington said the team was in the best financial shape its been in in quite some time.  Why?  Because they don't spend money on players unless said player will play for the league minimum!  I wonder why they are now in losing season # 16?

My 2 cents... re: all the gnashing of teeth. Remember the purple-faced fury when another GM (Syd Thrift, wasn't it?) traded uber-popular Tony Pena for three nobodies from St. Louis (don't remember if any of them were actually in the majors at the time)? The last straw, etc. etc. - and that after only a few losing seasons, not 15 (but the cupboard at the time had such wonders as Sammy Khalifa and Dale Berra in it, so it was certainly similarly bare as today's cupboard is), and we weren't ever going to watch another game, what an idiot, the Cards hosed us, was all I remember hearing. The one guy was named MIke Dunne and came in second for Rookie of the Year, not bad even if he didn't pan out long-term. The other two losers were named Spanky and Slick. Seems to me I recall they turned out OK.

So maybe some patience is in order. The law of averages would seem to indicate that at least two or three of the Yank prospects will be of help to the Bucs in the future, and by this time next year we'll all have trouble remembering who was traded anyway. Or not. NH is maybe the second coming of Syd, and maybe the second coming of Dave or Cam. But as Syd said long ago, "It ain't easy resurrecting the dead." Yeah, he really said that, and he was 100% right. And frankly the PBC is far more dead (if such a metaphor makes sense) now than they were in 1987.

Let's learn from 1987 - Syd took a shot, a very unpopular shot, and three years later we had a division champ. That's not likely to happen this time, but you gotta start somewhere. Four guys with upside, all 26 or under, versus two proven guys who are 30 and peaking and who may never be as good again. Dave would have hung onto these guys until they weren't worth anything or traded them for a can't miss kid in Single-A that he projected as a fifth starter.

It's going to take a lot more to resurrect this franchise than what Syd had to face, and it took him four years. These guys make one move and the lynch mob is out. Heck, if they can get the miserable mess Dave left here into contention in four years, or even over .500 (never mind division champs), they'll practically be Houdinis. If not, then we can all throw them off the Jolly Roger together.

The Cubs haven't won the Series in 100 years. The Indians from 1955-1995 were so gawdawful they sometimes had less than 1000 people in the house. That's 40 straight years of awful, even if occasionally they finished a game or two over .500. The Bucs from 1945-1957 were putrid. "This too shall pass." Let's wait and see, OK?

A national perspective for what it's worth...

I've been watching the Yanks-Red Sox game on Fox and Joe Buck and Ken Rosenthal have commented about 5 times about how little they think the Pirates got in exchange for Nady and Marte and Rosenthal said the consensus of other GMs was that it was a bad deal for Pittsburgh,

Looks like its Van Ben SchoGONE!

It was nice having you in the organization.  Thanks for changing into a pitcher for US after you were the best hitter in all of college.  Good Times!

Ken Rosenthal is an idiot... all announcers like him making out with the yankees' feet...  a stinkin' idiot...

Allarmy,   I have been as frustrated with PBC brass for penny pinching as anybody.  It is defiintely a huge factor in all the losing.   That being said, there are teams that are very competititve that are spending around what the Pirates are currently spending.  The real problem has been bad drafts, bad trades and scouting throughout the last 15 years.  I echo Cisco Kids comments about the patience.  This team will not be turned around with a couple high dollar free agent signings.  Depth accross the board is whats needed and heres hoping that this trade was the beginning of adding some of that.

Re: Cisco Kid's comments about the Pena trade. I remember how upset people were; I was also. However, Van Slyke had 4 years in with St. Louis at the time, though they treated him more like a utility guy and wouldn't make him a regular. Spanky played 110 games with the Cards in '86. So they weren't completely unknown, if one was paying attention.

Re: The team's announcment that Karsten (sp?) will replace either JVB or Herrera, based on their next start. I'm so glad that JVB plsyed the role of the good teammate tonight so Herrera doesn't need to be concerned about losing his job.

As a Yankee fan, I thought I'd give you some thoughts on the trade and what the Yankees gave up since most "experts" believe the Bucs were fleeced.

Karstens is a guy that's ready to step into a rotation. There was no room in the Bronx. Yanks saw him as a 4-5, but he was coming off a groin injury when they got Ponson. He's been Scranton's best pitcher in the last 6 weeks. Good change of speeds, change up, fast ball 91-92. Kid out of Texas Tech that doesn't back down. He would have been an option if Rasner or Ponson faltered.

Ohlendorf is a guy with a good, live arm out of Princeton. Can get it into the mid-90s. Yanks thought enough of him to insist on Ohlendorf in the Randy Johnson trade. Yanks couldn't find a role for him. They brought him in thinking of him more of a starter, then a long reliever followed by a one-inning reliever. Recently they were starting him in Scranton. Would have

been interested to see what he could do as a starter in the bigs, guess you guys will find out.

McCutchen is a guy that opened some eyes this spring. He's one of those potential guys and one of the pitchers they were high on but the Yankees are deep in pitching at the minor league level. McCutchen was one of those guys

that fell in with Horne, Marquez, Brackman, Sanchez, among others.

Tabata, was untouchable a year ago, maybe not even a year ago. 19 years old and not having a great year but there is upside.

So the Pirates are getting some quality young players. Three young pitchers. Glad Karstens willl get a chance to start now. Hate to see homegrown talent traded but it was a great trade for the Yanks having depth to deal from. I'll be interested in seeing how the new Bucs do. Remember, the experts didn't think much of the Rhoden for Doug Drabek trade in '86. Doug wasn't too shabby for the Bucs.

I hate to bring up the obvious,  but Joe Buck and Ken Rosenthal know exactly the same about Tabata and McCutchen as we do.  Nada!  Have a little faith guys, we have no clue how this is going to pan out.  People who follow minor leaguers, like Baseball America, were saying that the Yankees gave up way too much for a 33 Year old reliever and a 30 Year old playing the season of his life!!!

Patio, could not agree with you more regarding the drafts,trades and scouting.The Yankees (until  recently) had the deepest talent and best scouting in the minors and majors than anyone else. They have always been able to make that 1 move that would carry them to and through the playoffs. I can not remember when the last time was that PBC had deep talent and great scouting. Give this management team a chance. Most would agree they can not and will not do worse than the previous management team.

Buck had an obsession with the trade just about implying that there would be some sort of investigation by ML GMs. His comments got tiring.

The Bucs are getting arguably the two best Scranton pitchers of the last 6 weeks. There was just no room with the Yankees. Also, the Yanks don't always give their kids the shot that other teams give their farmhands. Two of the arms, possibly three are major league ready or close anyway. The Yanks have established some depth in the minors the past few years, so it's a little easier from a Yankee prospective to let a few rookies go. Mccutchen was a guy that rocketed through the system in a year. He was a guy the Yanks talked about bringing up. I'm not saying he's Joba, but Mccutchen made a similar move through the minors. Bulldog, football mentality...in fact he played a little football @ Oklahoma.

How can you not support a trade that brings back three pitchers that are instant upgrades to our minor league system, plus a guy that has a really high upside once he grows up? We traded two players at their peak, who were not really going to make a long-term difference for the Pirates.

Finally, a step in the right direction. I like it. Kudos to the front office for having some cajones to not worry about .500, and to actually try to become a professional baseball organization.

Save all the "have faith in the Bucs" crap.  All they care about is the bottom line.  Trading away the best player in the organization for minor league stiffs is NOT the way to "bring a winning attitude" to a loser organization.  Tomorrow morning, I box up all my Pirates gear and ship it to the dolt Huntington telling him to find the crap a home with some other sap who buys his nonsense.  Spin it any way you like Neal, the Buccos are LOSERS and will be LOSERS for the next 16 years.  Thank God the Steelers open camp tomorrow.

matt morris was spent and gone

jvb is spent and will be gone.

bring on these young-uns and lets see what they can do.

NH seems to be getting set up for next year.

See ya Kilroy... maybe you'd prefer to be over here in Clown Town where we have the AAA Clippers, the horrible Blue Jackets, the Crew (snore...), and Buckeye football - college football, for chrissakes - 365 days a year. The Burgh has been incredibly fortunate that as the region shrank and fought for survival the last 30 years (the same 30 years I've been stuck in this godawful podunk hicktown instead of the Land Of My Birth), NONE of the THREE MAJOR LEAGUE SPORTS TEAMS you have the pleasure of enjoying has up and left town. Unlike Washington, Cleveland, Baltimore, New Orleans, even LA - the list of the abandoned is virtually endless. I started with the Bucs when the Steelers were a joke and the Pens didn't even exist and every kid I knew would kill for their Dad to take them to Forbes Field. Yes, the current Bucs make me want to tear out my hair, except it's pretty much gone already. But it's sad to see the same old "baseball season ends the day Steelers camp opens" routine. You could wake up some morning with your team in Portland and the Altoona Curve moving into PNC Park. So go ahead and *** on the Pirates - but with any luck maybe they'll stick around anyway. I've seen it all from Branch Rickey unloading Ralph Kiner, to Bob Clemente throwing out a runner at home with a 320 foot strike dead center in the catcher's mitt, from Maz's trot to Operation Shutdown, and I'm going to just be thankful the Bucs still even exist for me to love and hate and be frustrated with. It could be worse - oh yeah, it could be much, much worse.

I share the frustration of 15 years of losing and having the people in my office laugh at me when I speak favorably about the Bucs. But NH and FC deserve their chance as new management and so far they have been better in some small ways. They have made people such as Paulino and Bullington accountable, and the utility pick-ups like Gomez, Michaels, Dumatrait, etc have made the bench beter than the sorry subs Littlefield hired. They had the guts to cut Morris loose, and to admit they fudged by signing Byung Yung Kim.  They also placed a little faith in McClouth and Doumit, who have proven them to be better judges of talent than their predecessors. I am sure they will make mistakes in judgment, but time will tell us if this trade was bad or good. The pencil necked geeks like Ken Rosenthal and Buster Olney will be the same people calling NH and FC geniuses if these trades work out.  

Cisco, that's the thing.  I remember the Great One, Pops, Maz and later on Richie Zisk, the Cobra, Tekulve, the Fam-i-lee, etc.  Yeah, it's pretty amazing the Bucs haven't skipped town given all the empty seats at PNC and before it TRS.  That changes the moment the Bucs put a competitive team on the field, hopefully sometime this century.  Since the Pirates last won their division, the Florida Marlins have won two World Series not to mention ENTERING THE FRIGGIN' MLB!!!  The D-Backs have also entered the MLB since then and have one World Series title.  Also new to the MLB - the Colorado Rockies and they won an NL pennant last year - as opposed the Bucs who won their last NL title in 1979 - my senior year!  The small market excuses extends as far as Minnesota, Oakland and this year Tampa Bay.   I'd wager all three of those teams win a pennant before the next Bucs NL pennant.  So damn tired of the same excuses, the same spin from the front office regardless if it's Bonifay, Littlefield or Huntington.  I'm also tired of the three/four/five-year plans to make a winning Bucs ballclub.  Those words are as phony as Obama's campaign pledges of change, hope and yes we can.  So I guess just being an MLB doormat is good enough?  No thanks.  Bucs fans deserve far, far better than the product that's put out in front of them at PNC Park.