Pirates Q&A: The Nady-Marte trade

Jose Tabata was rated as the Yankees 3rd best prospect. He is a 5 tool player. He was considered untouchable not to long ago in trade talks. He has what I believe is the same type of injury that Pedro Alvarez is recovering from. So why is the casual bunch out there whining as if Tabata is damaged goods. The trade as a whole I think is gonna have plenty of people eating crow down the road. I like this trade better than the ones that had Ian Kennedy envolved.

Well, now we know what Neal Huntington's PBC blog name is.  

Can't say that I know enough to grade this one, but the Yankee blogs sure seem to think they got a steal. Makes me nervous...

We weren't going to get anything for Marte except, at best, the equivalent of two first round draft picks assuming that Marte was classified as an 'A' player. It was unlikely that he would have been resigned by the Pirates given his high 2009 option.

I still need to do my research on the four players although I am somewhat familiar with Ohlendorff. He was considered a top Dbacks prospect and was involved in the Randy Johnsom reaquisition by the Dbacks last year. Everybody likes him but he has not yet realized his supposed potential.

The Pirates need pitching and three of the new players are pitchers. The question is --- can they pitch and what is their upside? They are all young, so without knowing much more, and given the fact that all are at AA and above, I like the deal and am anxious to see how it plays out.

Once again the Pirates get nothing for quality major league players

Who wants to buy their season tickets for the 2009 season EARLY?

Dejan, with the reemergence of Brad Lincoln and the acquisition of three power arms from the Yankees, if the Bucs can land Tanner Scheppers then they've made a good start in adding pitching depth.  Agree?

It is silly to say that the Pirates got nothing in this deal.  

I admit I am a little disappointed b/c Tabata is injured and hasn't proven he can hit AA pitching yet, but he has been considered a top prospect in the Yanks organization.  He has plenty of upside as a hitter and projects to hit with power.

Kontos has some upside, and if he's a solid #3 starter that's a fine trade for an average RF like Nady.  He is 23 and has good numbers at AA, a solid whip and is getting strikeouts.

Ohlendorf can add something to the bullpen immediately and is a power arm.   Tyler Yates?

Hard to say what type of offers the Pirates got, but  X. Nady isnt Albert Pujols and Damaso Marte not Billy Wagner.

People can say because they are fans.  Fans only go by what they hear and read - and for that reason make quick decisions.  

Don't you know that fans always know more than people in baseball?

On the surface - it does look so, so.  But, too early to tell.

I am worried about the report Hamstring injury reported on the PBC blog

Truth, that's the same line we hear over and over and over again.  Just be patient, the team needs rebooted, etc. etc.

The fact is the ownership needs rebooted.  This team needed held together and some pitching paid for in the off-season.  But the owners are too cheap to do anything about putting a real team on the field as long as they can make the cash.  At this point, I wish they'd shut revenue sharing off so they'd have to sell out because they wouldn't be able to pay for Seven Springs this way any more.

I wish the team had left town.  Better that than this embarrassment that claims to be a "major league" franchise.

Great #3 starter and a reliever with an 7 ERA, how many of those do we have in the system

This trade seems like other trades at the deadline that have been made in the past. We trade quality major league players who can add value to teams making a playoff run and get nothing in return. Ohlendorff has done nothing for the Yankees and Tabata is injured and was having a mediocre at Trenton. I'm not sure why I continue to follow this organization. The Yankees farm system is relatively dry, so there couldn't be studs left and they wouldn't give up much to try to add. I just don't get it. I know that both these guys might have been lost and gotten draft picks and blah blah blah, but getting value should be expected or at least getting hope. Why give these guys up now? Do we need the depth right this instant? Are these guys SO good that we needed a 19 year old with no thumb bone and bum hammy or a setup man that a bad bullpen was so quick to give up or an older prospect. Is it depth for depths sake? This stinks and I hope that two years from now I'm eating my words, but I've seen the PBC get Matt Lawton, Ty Wigginton, Jose Hernandez, Bobby Hill, Frank Brooks and the Sauerbeck and Suppan for Sanchez trade (sorry Freddy, but two decent arms to a team in the playoff hunt for an oft-injured middle infielder).

If Tabata avoids the injury bug after this and he becomes the player he's supposed it could be a good trade. I was hoping the Pirates would get some of the Ray's minor league pitchers instead of another OF. I mean Tabata's still a kid and he has a lot of growing up to do, just like Ramirez did at his age. I remember being kinda disappointed by Aramis back in 1998 through 2000, but when he finally made it big in 2001, it looked like it was worth the wait. Nady and Marte were both gonna be gone by the end of 2009 anyways and McCutchen should be ready for the majors next year. I'd give this trade a C, could have been a lot better, but could have been a lot worse too.

Don't you know that fans always know more than people in baseball?

Funny because on ESPN it's being said that the Yankees got a steal. I'm pretty sure that Buster Olney counts as "baseball people."

Baseball writers are just expressing their opinions as well.

Funny - they have been wrong too.

It's amazing how people will make outlandish statements about how NH does nothing to improve the Pirates' depth, but when he goes out and tries to make a trade to improve the system, those same people immediately jump on his case for not doing enough.

Dejan, do you get the feeling that most casual Bucs fans will believe the Pirates gave away the goods for nothing, because they're focused only on the product on the major league level? Did the management brace themselves for a backlash?

Everybody should relax over the Tabata hammy.  If he's too injured the Bucscan back out of the deal.

Trebro,

For the first time in many moons the front office did something smart at the beginning of the season....they didn't throw money away to fill holes. Did you expect our pitching to fall off this bad coming into the season? The pitching in this organization is beyond terrible....throw money there would have done what in the off season? Nothing. And there is never a guarantee that a FA turns out to be as good as advertised....Ask an M's fan about Adrian Beltre, Richie Sexson or Joel Pinero.

Also, for the first time in along time....the Pirates came away with a very good draft. One that is the beginning stages of putting our organization from top to bottom back together. Our minor leagues had not even a pocket full of major league potential in it.

You can't tie this regime in with the last regime with such a short sample size...which it will take years to really judge the moves the front office has made in it's first year. No one said we were gonna be contenders this year, or next year, or the year after that....you can't build a house with toothpicks....Well, not a big one anyway.

Forget casual fans, anyone can see there are no options to replace Nady. There is no a huge hole in the line-up and in right field

Wait I change my mind...I mean if Buster Olney and the BBTN crew think the Yankees got a steal then it is chiseled in stone isnt it?  No way they could be wrong...

Its amazing that that level of collective baseball expertise isnt working in front offices around the league and instead is stuck in Bristol, CT...

How silly of me...

Mick  ..... Olney said it was GM's surprised that the Yankees got such a steal from the Pirates.

Anyone who thinks a 26 year old in AA is a true prospect is just used to the crap we've seen in Pittsburgh during this dark night of 16 seasons of losing baseball.

PBCRevolution ......

I doubt that the casual fans care. Casual fans don't post on blogs about the Pirates.

I'm a diehard fan who is tired of this same old story. When will there ever be real talent in this system? Never as long as Nutting is the owner.

wow- two great players and people gone! looks a bit grim today, but if xman gets a bit frail down the line and grabs some pine, and damaso pitches more than a few batters a game, this may look better down the line. of course the real test is about 2010. watching the hi-def tv today with a winner is better than the murky crystal ball of 16-17-18 losing seasons, but this is the only way out. couldn't get to .500 with them, so turn the frown upside down.

I will never pretend to be a baseball expert. I am just a fan. However, with this trade being generally panned by Pirate Nation, it seems to me that the necessity of signing Alvarez is greater today than it was yesterday.

Will today's trade turn out to be good or bad? Only time will tell. The timing (with nearly a full week til the deadline) does seem a little hinky. But we all know our farm system is nearly barren, and this trade does help restock it some.

As a Pirate fan, I wish X and Marte all the best. Thanks for the efforts you put forward for the Black and Gold. Godspeed.

48jj - I am with you on a 26 yr old AA reliever, but Tabata and Kontos seem to have enough talent to merit optimism.

It wasnt that long ago that Ohlendorf was a major component to the Randy Johnson deal...he might not have the luster he once had but...

The other way to view this is not to divine value of these 4 compared to Nady and Marte but to compare them to what current resides in the system...do these 4 players improve the system?  Time will tell, but a tentative yes isnt out of bounds...

Why package two of the top players on the block to one team? That is the real problem here. Nady or Marte alone should have brought this much in return, not both of them. Nady is having a fantastic year and Marte is a top setup man and one of the top three lefty specialists in the game. So separate them! Deal one to the Yanks and one to the Rays and take a couple of prospects off of both teams.

I was a proponent of keeping this team, especially this OF together...but now I say blow it up. I hope on August 2nd we have a whole new lineup other than Nate and Doumit.

Oh, and I pray Michaels is not the everyday right fielder. I like him, but I like him on the bench. More importantly, give us something to look forward to and that is the entrance of Andrew McCutcheon. We have been hearing for years he is our #1 ranked prospect. Well, there is a huge hole in the OF now. Time to fill it with the future.

I actually don't have much of a problem with the trade. I think we may have gotten a little more value in the trade than some realize. I've seen almost nothing in the Comments about Phil Coke. I know he's 26 (2 years YOUNGER than Herrera, but in the same league). I took a look at his game log for this season at Trenton. He had some bad starts in April, but since May 1st...

89.1 IP, 67 H, 21 R, 15 ER, 30 BB, 93 K, 5 HR. 1.51 ERA, 1.075 WHIP. .204 BAA and a 9-3 record.

That's one heck of a lot better numbers than ANYONE in our system has.

Projected lineup for August 2nd:

McCutcheon CF

Walker 3B

McLouth LF

Doumit C

Pearce 1B

Delaney RF

Bixler SS

Ohlendorff P

Negrych 2B

Who wants to see this happen??? I am in.

DK, if you want to look at the context of Olney on BBTN here's a link:

sports.espn.go.com/.../videopage

The problem I have with the people who love this deal because it is an improvement in our system is that nearly everyone would be an improvement in our system.  Our system is horrible.  Mediocre players would improve the talent in it.  We should not be trading our best bargaining chips to "improve the minor league depth."  We should only trade them to improve the outlook for the big club down the road.  I just want to ask Huntington what ever happened to not making a trade for the sake of making a trade?

Does anyone think this group is even equivalent to the 2 first rounders the Pirates would have gotten for Damaso alone?  I saw someone earlier talk about how they felt that wasn't much of a return, but it sounds like quite a bit to me.  

Tabata certainly is more then a raw first rounder in 09 would have been, but the rest appear to be borderline major leaguers at this point, and factor in that they also dealt Nady and I am left scratching my head over this one.  Maybe they weren't so confident in Damaso bringing 2 first rounders?  And maybe they were desperate for a band-aid knowing there is no way Herrera AND JVB keep up their pace.

I think the general analysis of the trade is missing a big factor.  I doesn't matter so much what happens 3-5 years from now, it's possible to analyze the trade now based on the current value of the players involved.  The Pirates just gave up two quality players for one blue chip prospect, who has be be discounted due to substantial injury risk, and 3 arms providing organizational depth.

I think it makes little differnce if Tabata turns out to be Manny Ramirez or Grady Sizemore...the Pirates should have received more based on the current perceived value of the players they received.  They appear to have either blinked before the Yankees or have overvalued the players they received in comparison to most everybody else.

First, this quote from NH in the previous DK post has been greatly ignored:

At the same time, he said interest was not great in these players: "A good number put out feelers. Not as many as you would have expected put out legitimate interest." ...

So either that means we should have waited a couple days, or all the hyped interest was exactly that - hype.  No other teams put in any offers.

I would have loved to see Kennedy or Hughes, if only for the name recognition that might have given some peace to the Pirates' Fan troubled souls.  

I read some Yankees blogs and articles in the NY papers and some people over there were thinking the Pirates picked up some pretty good players.

I'm still in limbo on what I think about this trade.  I don't think it's as bad as the disgruntled Pirate fan believes.

A-Rod contributes to our shock and awe over this Littlefield-like move:

"There's so many unexpected things (that) happen this time of year," Alex Rodriguez said, "but when you hear those names, I don't think anyone can expect to get two quality players like that in the middle of their prime to help our team."

A-Rod nailed it like he nailed Madonna....the whole baseball world is shocked that our PBC would part with these two players in their prime. Is Cashman still laughing right now?

I think everyone needs to just take a step back and chill out. Neither of these guys were too huge of a loss. We can't afford Marte past this year and we do have a young player you may have heard of named Mcutchen waiting for his shot in the bigs to replace Nady. Besides, all 4 of these players have a legitimate chance to be successful in the bigs, and the outfielder has an upside that rivals that of Mcutchen. You may remember a lot of people complaining when we traded for an unknown named Jason Bay. Where are those naysayers now?

Get your Bobblehead, eat your Quaker Steak And Lube Wings and shut up.  This is a minor league team funneling players to teams that can compete.  It only makes it more difficult when these things happen if you have the allusion that you are supporting a major league baseball team.  Understand what we are, accept it and buy another $7.50 beer. I'm sure another fireworks night is coming up soon, probably next week.  Everything will be just fine.  

If Jon Rauch lands one the making of a career utility IF in Emilio Bonifacio....What exactly was the expectation level for a player in return for Marte? Joba Chamberlain? Jay Bruce? Evan Longoria? C'mon now.

SRC22 - the next line in the NY Times article you sight says:

For the Yankees, it was the first trade of a legitimate prospect in years. Before the season, Tábata was ranked as the No. 37 prospect in all of baseball, ahead of other Yankees standouts like Austin Jackson and Ian Kennedy.

www.nytimes.com/.../26trade.html

Relax, Pirate fans, relax.

Chill.  We weren't going to win a World Series with Marte and X.  We aren't going out and signing Sheets and CC this off season either.  I could give a care about reaching .500.  Losers shoot for .500.  And we have been losers.

Add some depth through trades and look to blow past .500.  Will they pan out?  Crap shoot.  On a side note - We were on borrowed time with X's hamstrings anyhow.

I agree. Tobata is intriguing and has potential. And weren't people ripping Littlefield two years ago when he traded Pereze for Nady? Seems like that deal worked out OK.

Did I really just read someone say that we have nobody to put in right field now? Outfield is the only position where we actually DO have some depth. That's why Im not too sad to see Nady go, especially when we may have gotten a potential perrenial All Star in return. I've seen quite a few Yankees fans who are not too happy with this trade.

For some reason you didn't include the next paragraph, Lee.

Tábata has not yet turned 20, but he has been a disappointment this season, hitting .248 with three homers. He also was briefly suspended in late April for leaving the ballpark while a game was in progress.

Sounds like a character guy.

Remember when you got all geeked about landing Adam LaRoche and that can't lose deal, before you found out that he doesn't hit until July.  It's going to be ok, boys and girls.  The sun will come up in about six hours and you and Buster Olney can't evaluate this trade in six minutes.  

Cripes,

It took CC Sabathia to get ONE top-line prospect from Milwaukee...  dont think Nady or Marte are quite in that category...

Dont bust NH on this... he said he was getting pitching depth, and he did... may not have been the greatest prospects around, but did you really expect that? Remember, the Bucs have NOTHING in the farm system.

Further, no one on this blog has any idea what other offers were out there. Sure, maybe better offers would have come... but maybe not. There is no reason not to trust NH thus far.

And whoever made the comment earlier about Scott Boras waiting til 1130 on augut 15 to have Alvarez sign- good call...

Do not think that Alvarez will not be signed- he will.

Seriously, we will better be able to judge this trade in three years...

He left the ballpark early.  He's 20.  I was a cocky idiot when I was 20 and I have no baseball talent.  Sheesh.  "He has potential, but...he left the ballpark early and is a potential serial killer"

I also think people are forgetting that Nady is a real injury threat every time he takes to the field if the past is any guideline. This season is already lost. I'm actually a proponent of moving Bay too, if the pirates can get a legitimate number 1 starting pitching prospect for him.

Sounds like a 19 year old.

By the way, Tabata is the first 19 year old to make AA in the Yankee's organization since some guy named Derek Jeter.

I provided the link so your could read the whole article yourself I wasn't going to cut and paste the whole thing.  The point I was trying to make is Tabata is a legitimate prospect from the Yankees, something they don't typically part with.

Yeah...but he left the ballpark early. ;)

Funny thing...we as Bucco fans always think our team stinks, but when we go to make trades we always feel like we are giving away Babe Ruth.  Ironic?

I'm telling you - J.  Geez.  

I appreciate the link, Lee.  I would like to be optimistic too, but I've been optimistic for 16 some years now.  

Just become numb.  It's easier than optimistic.

I'm going to bed.  Maybe when I wake up I will read that the Bucs traded Grabow for Josh Hamilton.  And he has tattoos!!!

Huntington should have thrown Bay into the deal...then maybe the Yankees would have included an unlimited supply of barf bags for all the tortured souls called Pirate fans.

Exactly Michel. After 16 years I figured you'd just be completely numb to the pain.

I think we are missing the big picture.........the fact that this trade may be just the tip of the iceberg, ie....bay.....wilson......grabow all headed out the door.

I'm optimistic too.  Heck, Chuck Tanner thinks I'm optimistic.  

We got to get some pitching to go with our hitting.  Three guys will get their shot, starting with Ohlendorf.  The outfield was crowded and Nady was expendable.    

The Yankees fans seem to think it was a pretty fair trade. I guess they were really high on Tabata before he was injured earlier this month...

yankees.scout.com/.../772400.html

Coonington should be fired ... pathetic trade.  Why even move them?  Why not wait until the offseason and see if the offers get better.  Even if they don't, at least you get some playing time out of two decent players instead of some AA scrubs.

Tabata might be ok ... or he might be Jose Castillo in the outfield (and that's not fair to Castillo).  Which brings me to another point - we have no real need for OF prospects.

 How much longer, O Lord? Sure, this trade could turn out to be great but it could also turn out to be garbage. Why do the teams we trade with always know what they're getting while we are always filled with uncertainty? We throw away our top prospects like Chris Young and Jeff Keppinger. We trade

our top proven major league trading pieces for who-knows

prospects. None of the four is major-league ready as Huntington had pledged. The alleged best of the lot is on the

AA disabled list with a hamstring at the age of 19 plus hand surgery? The only AAA guy is a 26-year-old relief pitcher just demoted by the Yankees?  Sighhhhhhhh.....  

Yep, that is where I am meestro.  Comfortably numb as the song goes.  Steelers cam starts Sunday at least.

Hey there may be a small bit of sunshine to this whole deal...X has stated he likes(d) being here...Can anyone say rental player? I know that is a stretch, as long as the NYY do not win the WS there may be the opportunity (slim) to have him back as a part of our PBC. All in all though I think NH could have held out for more/better...and to address the salary dump idea, reports yesterday said the talks beteen Boras and PBC were millions apart...Not anymore

www.firebobnutting.com

Nutting is the only common denominator in this string of awful front offices ... lets call up the Irate fans and get ready to start this year's boycott.  Maybe this time yinzers won't boycott those trying to force ownership in to building a better team for them to watch?

New insights on the Yankee minor leaguers on the blog that was started before Friday night's game -- if anybody cares.

I sure hope McCutchen doesn't feel any pressure to perform IMMEDIATELY or be labeled a bust. From all the talk, the entire future of the organization is resting on his shoulders.

Whomever replaces Nady in the outfield and does not preform to the same standard as Nady...he surely will be deemed a failure. Nady was part of the best outfield in all of baseball and will be missed.

OK, I can see the arguement for the Pirates "blinking first".  However, 6 days from now, if the Buccos would have seen the deadline come and pass without any moves at all, this blog would have seen triple the activity that's going on tonight.  There is no way to assess this trade right now.  Any attempt to do that is purely speculation.  We can all agree that the Pirates' minor leagues are bereft of prospects.  We got 4 prospects, 3 of which are probably major league ready right now for the Pirates.  I say ready now for the Pirates.  I don't know that they'd be major league ready for many other teams, and that's where the ESPN analysis focuses on.  For probably 25 other teams, this trade is dumb.  But, for the Pirates, our Pittsburgh Pirates, this is the best we were gonna get.  And, looking at what's on the field on the big team, as well as the minors, these four should be welcomed with open arms.

I really hope Huntington and Co. have a thick wall around them guarding them from the "fans" who would rather see the Pirates stumble around in mediocrity as opposed to taking some chances and trying to build an actually GOOD organization.  I mean, c'mon guys, we've waited a decade and a half - what's another couple of years?  Let's do this thing right instead of trying to get it done quickly.

I don't have a problem with rebuilding and turning our back on mediocrity.  I DO have a problem with this MEDIOCRE or worse return of talent.  I hope Nutting forbids any other trades until this team gets rid of DL's talent evaluation team.

Alright, last post before bed time. There is no person whom I personally trust on talent evaluation more than Keith Law from ESPN. In his blog at espn.com he calls the situation a win-win for both teams. And he says this trade is very different from anything Littlefield would have done. Good info on all four acquisitions too. You might want to check it out.

And ChicagoBucco, I would hesitate to start evaluating talent if I were you. That is, after all, why GM's make the decisions and not us fans.

From a prospect standpoint...

Coke was not ranked by Baseball America in the Yankees top 30 before the season. He's a 26-year-old lefty at Double-A. That's not a good sign.

Kontos missed a chunk of last season after being arrested at a Tampa bar. His BA report (ranked 17th) includes such winning lines as "command was shaky, he gave up too many homers and he relied too much on his plus slider." "Kontos still needs to mature and let bad breaks go rather than letting them eat him up." "he has a long track record of not living up to expectations."

Ohlendorf is not a starting pitcher. Anyone who thinks this is fooling themselves. He's a late-inning reliever, maybe a power RH arm similar to Yates.

Tabata is far and away the best prospect of the bunch, but he's cursed by woeful plate discipline (common in young players from Latin America). He also has serious attitude issues, as evidenced by an organizational suspension earlier this year. The biggest problem with Tabata is simply that the Pirates didn't need him. They needed a top-flight starting pitching prospect (Ian Kennedy, Alan Horne, Jeff Marquez), not another OF.

Yes, it's true that Nady was playing over his head, and Marte wasn't going to be back next year, but Huntington could have and should have done better. He passed up talent for depth and a prospect whose future is cloudy on a team with depth in only one place, the outfield.

If the Pirates take the money saved and spend it on Alvarez, Scheppers, and Wilson, it'll take some of the sting out of this.

If they take it and spend it on another house/boat/car for Bob Nutting, then what few Pirate fans remain should abandon this team until it is sold to an owner who actually feels like he owes it to the taxpayers who built his stadium to provide them with a winner.

Anyone who says that they're now no longer watching the Pirates because of this trade... how long have you been fans? You give up now, after you've seen Aramis Ramirez, Brian Giles, and Jason Kendall (among others) go in real salary dump trades? Why didn't you jump off the ship earlier?

I think that the Yankees being involved in this trade makes it look a lot worse from the Pirates' perspective. The fact that there can be such a gap between two teams in every aspect is one reason why baseball disgusts me, but the backwards structure of Major League Baseball and its devoted lovers at ESPN are a discussion for another day.

Like I said before, I'm sad to see Nady and Marte go... but what were you all expecting? It's NH's first year on the job. Wait a few more years and then judge his work. He's doing what he set out to do around this trade deadline - acquire depth, of which the Pirates have none. Now, I'm not saying that I really like this trade, but only time will tell if this is good or bad.

In conclusion, this is only one step that will be taken to move away from the McClatchy/Littlefield/etc. debacle years and rebuild the system to give the team a chance to compete... or maybe have an above-.500 record for the first time since the year the Pens last won the Cup.

If this is how the new organization makes deals we could have kept Littlefield as GM.

Nady, and Marte still had another year left in Pittsburgh based on a contract and an option.  You had a trade partner that DESPERATELY needed these two players.  We should have squeezed them hard to sweeten the deal.  3 pitchers at that age that aren't on the major league team are not prospects, they are uniform fillers.  The verdict is still out on the young outfielder, but he already has a reputation as a flake.

So far the only right move the  new and accountable Pirates have made is in their choice as manager.  One year down another 14 to follow.  Where is the pride in the ownership of this team?  The Steelers try to do the right thing, The Pens are showing the improvement their fans deserved.  The Pirates ownership is still too busy counting the money and not fixing the team.

Losing Marte and Nady is not a big deal from my perspective as a die-hard fan. I don't mind the trades. We're not winning this year or next and there really isn't a WS in the future. What bothers me is that it doesn't seem like we got value in return. Nady could get hurt and this is a career year and Marte is a lefty specialist who we couldn't afford next year, but they were both at their peak right now. Both achieving at a level where you want to trade them. It made sense to trade them, it doesn't make sense to trade them for this little in return. Who knows what the future holds, but this seemed like it happened too fast for the control that the Pirates had over these players and that adding depth right now makes no difference to this year or future years.

Lauren - Ramirez was obviously an awful salary dump.  But Giles?  Seem to recall his production falling considerably since then while we got Jason Bay, the Pirates' first ever rookie of the year and a two time all-star who happens to be killing the ball right now and Oliver Perez, who wasn't so shabby.  Seems like the perfect sell high trade to me.  And Kendall, it wasn't that we got rid of him, it that we actually paid him, remember?  $10M a year that he never lived up to.  

I wasn't sure about this trade before, but I'm pretty positive it was a great trade now.  It has to be if all you "Pirate Fans" hate it.  

It's entirely possible for both teams in a trade to get exactly what they want or need.  Look, who cares if we made .500 this year?  If keeping Nady and Marte, or trading them for immediate talent is the difference between .500 or 10 games under, then what does it really matter?  This trade moved two guys playing at or near their peak for reasonable talent and depth.  I'll take four guys with potential to be big leaguers and help fill our talent pool than to cross some fictional line of being a "winning team" this year or even next.

Who cares about .500, I'm looking for a division title, and it doesn't really matter what our win/loss is in the meantime.  Nady and Marte weren't going to be here at that point anyways.  These four new guys very well might help us get there.

Lee - my apologies; I think I just meant to throw out examples of big names the Pirates had traded away over the past few years, not necessarily "salary dump" trades.

I am a lifetime Pittsburgh Pirate fan. I've been through the good times (70's & early 90's), and I've been through the bad times which appear to be eternal now.

However, I'm to the end of my rope.

The continuing, ridiculous moves of the so-called front office has become reason to believe that this organization is run by total imbeciles.

The complete lack of any kind of respect regarding the small  clan of Pirate fans is as blatant as it gets.

And now we have the latest trade.....

The trouble with this type of rape is that it is avoidable....unless you're the lowest form of a professional sports team organization on the face of the earth.

Anybody that would make this type of trade ought to be thrown out of  MLB immediately....no questions asked.

This ranks right up there with the Aramis Ramirez fiasco a few years ago.

But leave it to the Pirates to continue this type of business.

It makes NO sense, and can't be viewed from any intelligent angle but a salary dump.

Sure...Nady & Marte don't make that much.

But when your attendance is down (due to crappy baseball) and you're trying to find ways to pay a first-round, Scott Boras client ala Pedro Alvarez....I assume one might be dumb enough to come up with this type of idea.

Brian Cashman probably hasn't fallen asleep yet due to hysterical laughter.

I guarantee....None of these four jobo's the Yankees hacked off will amount to a hill of beans.

Thanks for another rotten move, another rotten year...and the promise of many more to come.

You people make me sick.