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Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects

By Dejan Kovacevic | 7:38 p.m. Friday

Xavier Nady either has been traded or is being traded, I am told, No further information yet. That is why he was removed after one inning tonight.

UPDATE 7:41 p.m.: Damaso Marte is out, too.

UPDATE 7:50 p.m.: Paul Meyer reports the Yankees could be the other team.

UPDATE 8:10 p.m.: Sounds more like the Yankees. And this Class AA pitcher named Phil Coke, a 25-year-old left-hander, was pulled from his start after one inning tonight. Coke is 9-4 with a 2.58 ERA in 20 starts. He also made a spot start in Class AAA.

UPDATE 8:19 p.m.: Add Ross Ohlendorf and Jose Tabata, according to a source in New York. All still unconfirmed. Should be one more.

UPDATE 8:24 p.m.: A player agent says he heard George Kontos is No. 4. That would be three pitchers and an outfielder.

UPDATE 8:28 p.m.: In looking at Baseball America's top-10 prospects list for each time, published in January, Tabata ranked No. 3 in the Yankees' system, Ohlendorf No. 9. Tabata was listed as the best hitter for average in that system. Kontos ranked 17th in an extended list of the top 30, and Coke did not crack the top 30. In the midseason rankings that just came out today, Austin Jackson, a 23-year-old outfielder, was the only New York prospect on the top-25 overall list. Tabata, who had been ranked 37th among all prospects before the season, was listed under the "Growing Pains" header for those who have struggled this season. (Neil Walker made that list, for some perspective.)

UPDATE 8:51 p.m.: Tabata, pictured above, clearly is the class of this group, which means the Pirates' best return came at, of all positions, the outfield. He does not turn 20 until next month, and he was the youngest player in the All-Star Futures Game in Pittsburgh two years ago. That year, he led the entire New York system with a .314 average, albeit in the Gulf Coast League. He is a right-handed batter seen as a five-tool type. This season, although still young for Class AA, he dropped back to .248 in the aftermath of August surgery to remove the hamate bone from his hand. (Some might recall Pedro Alvarez had the same surgery early this season and, although it is seen as harmless, it saps a hitter of power for half-a-year or so.) Tabata has been on the minor league disabled list and has not played since July 1.

UPDATE 9:07 p.m.: Here is footage of Tabata batting at PNC Park in Pirates colors ... from the Futures Game a couple years back.

 

UPDATE 9:11 p.m.: Someone will have to replace Nady and Marte on the 25-man roster. Nyjer Morgan has been on a tear of late, but he is playing tonight for Indianapolis and Steve Pearce is not. Pearce would seem a far more logical candidate, given that he could have a sustained period to prove his worth in the majors before Andrew McCutchen comes along. The pitcher probably will be Ohlendorf. That would even things out on the 40-man roster, too.

UPDATE 9:15 p.m.: It is official. At least pending physicals.

UPDATE 9:43 p.m.: Charlie Wilmoth at Bucs Dugout finds that Tabata is on the minor league disabled list because of a "fairly severe hamstring injury." The hand is not the issue. It does not sound as if he will be playing anytime soon.

UPDATE 10:08 p.m.: Neal Huntington, still mostly quiet on the deal pending physicals, will not discuss most aspects of it. He said it could take until tomorrow morning to finalize. He described it as a "baseball trade" as opposed to a salary dump. And he said that, if it goes through, he would be "very happy" with the return. At the same time, he said interest was not great in these players: "A good number put out feelers. Not as many as you would have expected put out legitimate interest." ... The main issue, Huntington said, was depth. "We feel like we are adding quality depth to our organization. With no disrespect to the players who have come and tried, we have not had the depth to weather injuries and sustained performance. This trade, if it happens, will do that." ... Huntington described Nady as "disappointed" because "this team has bonded. He's done tremendously well here in Pittsburgh, and sometimes I think we lose sight of the human elements. As excited as I'm sure he will be in his next opportunity, I'm sure he'll miss it here."

UPDATE 11:01 p.m. The New York Times account of the trade includes information that Tabata was suspended for walking out on his teammates during a minor league game earlier this year.


Posted Jul 25 2008, 07:38 PM by Dejan Kovacevic

Comments

Tiiimmmmmmmmmyyyyyy wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 7:44 PM

The announcers said Nady and Marte are involved in a trade, pending physicals.  Any knowledge as to what team?

Youngfor3 wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 7:46 PM

Damn, Marte/Nady package deal..... lets go!

SandlotWizard wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 7:50 PM

Nady and Marte traded.  

What a delight.

My one true hope is that Mr. DK will be forced to serve soup to all and have to give us the details of a package deal!

ChicoLindsGhost wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 7:51 PM

First the Boras phone call, and now a package deal?  Are the baseball gods trying to tell Dejan that he shouldn't take days off?

SeanE wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 7:52 PM

So much for your day off Dejan!

Fancy Pants wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 7:55 PM

Rumors are that it is to the Yankees for Ian Kennedy and others.

thanny13 wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 7:58 PM
SeanE wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:02 PM

If Kennedy is the main piece of that trade I will consider this a salary dump of major proportions.  This is a guy projected to be no more than a number three starter.  The "others" better be of a higher quality.

JhaugJr wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:04 PM

Pe rbaseball prospectus it is Ohlendorf, someone named Coke in AA and 1-2 others.

If there's no one better than Ohlendorf, this is a travesty

48jj wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:08 PM

LOL DK shouldn't have days off because I feel very deprived when he isn't providing us with Pirates news every day. This blog is great though because even with him being off, he keeps in touch!

At least I like the Yankees. I despise A-Rod, but now I'll be cheering for them to make the playoffs just because of how much I like X and Marte!

We better get really good pitchers back in return.

JhaugJr wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:12 PM

Add Jose Tabata and George Kontos again per Prospectus.

If true, Tabata is a good pickup

UtesFan89 wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:13 PM

The Pirates will receive a package of four minor-league players, expected to be Class AAA right-hander Ross Ohlendorf, Class AA right-handers Phil Coke and George Kontos and Class AA outfielder Jose Tabata.

Kevjac66 wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:14 PM

So.. whose bright idea was it to take the team picture today?

Tiiimmmmmmmmmyyyyyy wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:15 PM

If the reports are correct than I'm forced to believe that Dave Littlefield is still running things behind the scenes.

Youngfor3 wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:16 PM

Ohlendorf, Jose Tabata, Coke, and another. I donno, Tabata used to by hyped but hurt his wrist

UtesFan89 wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:18 PM

I just read that Tabata is on the DL in AA. Is that true?

VTPirateFan wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:20 PM

Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports reports the same four players UtesFan89 reports.

Maddamma wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:22 PM

ESPN.com reprts this for the trade:

sports.espn.go.com/.../story

GoBucs wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:23 PM

Any chance Austin Jackson gets included?  I saw early speculation he could be based on both Nady and Marte being included.  If it's just those 4 it doesn't sound terribly exciting.

Cave Bonifield wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:24 PM

I just hope Coke is the real thing.

JhaugJr wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:25 PM

A quick check of the Thunder website shows that both Kontos and Coke appear to have serious power arms.

we cna only hope.

Tiiimmmmmmmmmyyyyyy wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:30 PM

Cooke is 26 in AA.  That is not a prospect worth giving up Nady and Marte.  This is making me sick.

kpleary wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:34 PM

How is this better than getting the two sandwich picks???

I mean...that alone seems better than what they got, unless Huntington thinks one of these guys is a hidden ace....

Maddamma wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:37 PM

I would imagine Ohlendorf comes right to our pen and Nyjer comes up to platoon with J-Mike

BlackNGold Brigade wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:39 PM

Good bye X!  You will be sorely missed.

Maddamma wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:39 PM

Coke has been on the DL twice in two years for elbow problems

Kevjac66 wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:40 PM

Time to focus on Steelers training camp now.

SandlotWizard wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:41 PM

Ohlendorf is similar to Tyler Yates.

Both Kontos and Coke have solid numbers in AA this season:

Kontos:  20 GS  3.77era  43bb/103k   107ip  .243 baa

Coke:  19GS   2.60era   38bb/109k  114ip  .242baa

Both have been injured as well, which is a big concern.  

Tabata's numbers not worth mentioning.  

Kontos, Coke and Tabata might be a decent deal for Nady, but not for both Nady and Marte.  

They got less b/c of the dreaded 'package deal'

Allarmy-retired wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:41 PM

Well, new GM - same weak trades.  I will not be going back to PNC Park anymore this season.  Another salary dump to make the Nuttings bottom line look better.  More pain for the fans..........  :(

48jj wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:42 PM

I am totally disgusted. I hate this organization.

Lauren wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:44 PM

I guess Coke's elbow problems and Ohlendorf's 6.53 ERA will allow them to fit in with the Pirates' pitchers nicely.

As for Nady and Marte, good luck to them! I'm not a Yankees fan at all, but they deserve the chances they'll get with a contender that they wouldn't get here.

Cave Bonifield wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:48 PM

BB America has Tabata #3 despite having hamate bone removed last year. He is only 19.

They have Ohlendorf #9 and was the key player coming over from Arizona in the Randy Johnson deal.

Kontos is the Yanks # 17 prospect despite missing time last year after being charged with trespassing and obstruction after failing to leave a bar last year.  Says he has a long track record of not living up to expectations.  Sound familiar!

No mention of Coke in the Yanks top 30 prospects

Griggsy wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:50 PM

Same Old Sorry Buccos. Axing Littlefield and hiring Coonelly and Huntington was like re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

aglebagel wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:51 PM

Wow. We were all wondering if the new management would be willing to risk letting attendance plummet further by trading for the future.  Apparently they are (a dangerous move, I think), but the unexpectedly bad part is that it doesn't seem this makes us more optimistic about this season OR any future season.  This is bad news.

BlackNGold Brigade wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:58 PM

Now that Nady is gone, who gets the right field starts?  Michaels?  Pearce?  McCutcheon????

matskralc wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 8:58 PM

Tabata has the potential to be a LOT better than Xavier “Mirage” Nady. But he’s also young enough to completely implode and is far from a sure thing.

Ohlendorf/Kontos will probably be reasonable back-of-the-rotation starters, which is adequate replacement for Marte straight-up, but doesn’t account for the draft picks we’re losing.

Coke is organizational filler.

Talent-wise, this trade is pretty even. What makes it a loss for us is that I don't think we got adequate compensation for losing the two draft picks Marte would have brought.

ATLMtneer wrote re: Nady is out, but unclear where
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:00 PM

OK -- I guess I am in the minority.  Were you guys expecing Joba Chamberlin and Phil Hughes?

Tabata looks like a really good future leadoff hitter, and if even one of those pitchers pan out, it will be a very good trade.  

Remember, these two guys were lame ducks.  And don't give me this sandwich pick stuff, we cant even sign half the players we draft -- and you want more draft picks?

The minor league system is bare for the Pirates -- it just got a little richer today.  Nice job guys.

However, if you trade Bay, it better be for a top prospect or two.

johnnyblaze wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:01 PM

If this is the best NH could do, he better hold off on any further deals. The fans can only take so much "joy" in a season. Apparently "the moon" is a lot cheaper than I anticipated. Perhaps those New York articles got to him?

AramisRamirez=HOF wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:03 PM

I really am trying not to sound disgusted with this trade...but again, this is coming from someone who saw a young power-hitting corner infielder traded for a 3B and OF who both lasted about a year and a minor league pitcher who we never saw.

This trade doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  Maybe it's just me.  But it appears we were looking at PITCHING prospects.  Yes, we got three of them, but one is a reliever, one is a seemingly-decent AA pticher, but fairly old, and the third looks to be a throw-in.

The main prospect who we landed is a young OF with a good amount of promise, but in my opinion, by no means a 'can't miss' type of guy.  Don't get me wrong - Tabata should be decent.  But in looking at his stats, seems to have taken a step back since his AA promotion and has been complaining of hand trouble.  I mean, are we serious?  The Pirates needed a top-flight picthing prospect (and if I remember correctly, the Pirates weren't ruling out trying to get a major league-ready pitcher) - instead, our best prospect is, yet another OF.  Certainly, depth is good, but we are so desperate for pitching, it clearly looks like it would have made sense to go after a top pitching prospect...someone who's maybe in AAA or even the majors.  This move appears to make little sense to me.  It doesn't appear that Tabata would be ready to join the major league team next year, so why not even hold onto Nady and trade him in the Winter or next year since he's still under contract?

And while I'm on the subject of Nady - he was defintely one of the most sought after free agents (at least according to the media reports) along with Marte who has been lights out recently.  Nady seems to have turned the corner in his career and if he can stay healthy (which is a big if), seems like he can be a consistent 30-35 HR / 100 RBI guy.  I find it hard to believe that the best deal they thought they could get was for BOTH of them was a fairly solid prospect and three question marks.  

I don't know - maybe I'm overvaluing these guys.  But it seemed like there was so much interest from other teams that it might have been better to wait even a few more days to see if anyone else would up the ante.

I guess no one knows how this will turn out.  While this definitely wasn't as bad as the ARAM trade a few years back, it certainly doesn't seem 'even' in my humble opinion.

johnnyblaze wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:03 PM

This just in: New York Yankees GM Brian Cashman asking far too much for his "prospects".

Maddamma wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:07 PM

We're certainly not privy to other teams offers, but I might have played it a little closer to the vest - particularly with Marte.  Nady should have been able to yeild two pitchers or Tabata and one pitcher.  Marte was the best reliever available.  He might have yielded more if they held on to him for a couple more days.  Still, many around MLB still see him only as a lefty specialist.  Ultimately, we'll have to trust that Huntington made the best deal he could.  He did get three power arms and Tabata has promise for one so young.

Cajun Thunder wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:08 PM

Pearce is not in the Indianapolis lineup tonight. This likely means he will go in Nady's roster spot tomorrow. Figure that Ohlendorf probably goes straight on the 25 man roster, and will be a candidate for a starting spot almost immediately.

Also, Gorzo at Indy tonight, 5 IP, 5 H, 1 ER, 0 BB and 2 K's. 60 pitches, 39 for strikes. The 0 walks does look like a good thing.

Lyger wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:11 PM

Wow!

I'm disappointed

kpleary wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:14 PM

With all due respect ATLMtneer, when was the last time we failed to sign a first or second round draft pick?  It's not that there is a failure to sign people, it's that there is not a great interest in signing all the later round picks.  If a guy is unsignable, he isn't drafted early.

And no, anyone expecting a deal such as Joba is foolish.  However, the lack of prospects in the NYY organization is why I am disappointed to see Nads and Marte head there.  

Also...I hate the Yankees...

BattlinBucs wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:14 PM

I have no problems trading Nady.  No way we were re-signing him.  The only problem with Marte is the comp. picks.  That was  a big risk so NH and his scouts must see something in these guys that we don't.  As a Bucs fan I am thrilled we didn't trade them for Jose Hernandez and a Bum to be named later.  Ah the standards of a Bucs fan.

matskralc wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:15 PM

Ohlendorf is not a reliever. He's a starter that the Yanks, for some crazy reason, tried converting into a reliever. He'll be a starter here. Ohlendorf alone is probably equivalent value for Marte, a lefty-specialist who sees 45 innings a year.

Kontos fits the Huntington profile: power arm with control issues. He can probably be a decent #4/#5, or convert to relief and provide solid value there.

Coke is filler, no doubt. He's been old for his level and therefore unimpressive for years now.

Tabata is, of course, no sure thing. Neither is Xavier "Mirage" Nady. X is having a career year, outperforming past history and all reasonable projections. He's also largely avoided the injury bug that seems to follow him around. Xavier Nady will never be a 30-35 HR, 100 RBI guy. Bank on it.

Pirates fans, because we usually have so little, tend to overvalue the talent that we have. Anybody who thinks we were getting a top-flight pitching prospect for an OF having a fluke season and a lefty bullpen specialist is fooling himself. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm going not going to hold out hope that it was in fact Kennedy and not Kontos!

AramisRamirez=HOF wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:15 PM

Isn't Ohlendorf a reliever?  He hasn't made one start all year.

Fancy Pants wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:16 PM

I think the Tabata kid has great potential, but he is 19 and probably won't see the bigs for 3 more years.  But, here is the problem with the deal - Tabata is an outfielder!!!  Don't we have OF depth with McCutcheon and Pearce and Morgan.  What about a decent 3B or middle-infielder?

The pitchers all seem like scrubs!

BlackNGold Brigade wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:16 PM

Ninth inning...tying run on first...Nady spot in the line up.

Section_115 wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:17 PM

I am now convinced that Dave Littlefield is still running this team.

JhaugJr wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:18 PM

This doesn;t look like a pure dump. Ohlendorf has been occasionally competent this year. Tabata may do well now that the hamate is out. Bottom line, if two of these guys become contributors, NH is a winner, and three makes it a really good deal. This is NOT the Ramirez/Hill deal. Not even close.

Allarmy-retired wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:18 PM

DK,

Please pass along my disgust with this trade to Neal and Frank.  I will not waste anymore of my hard earned money during the 2008 season to watch minor leaguers playing at PNC Park.  Unpopular trades are one thing, giving up on the 2008 team is quite another, especially when one considers this is the year to equal the Philly's record.......

matskralc wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:20 PM

Littlefield would

A) not have traded Nady

B) gotten a return of Morgan Ensberg, Billy Traber, and Jose Molina off the Yankees for Nady/Marte if he had.

SeanE wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:22 PM

Why are people saying we got three power arms...we did not.  The only power arm in the bunch is Kontos.  Cooke and Ohlendorf have average arms and stuff and have been so rated by Baseball America.  That said, Cooke seems to always have good stats and Kontos has a big arm.  Ohlendorf is immediate depth.  Tabata is McCutheon 3 years ago.  Five tool player with a big upside.  

Overall, not a bad trade.  This team needed pitching depth in a big way and this trade brought three arms with big league potential.  It also return a young hitting prospect with big potential.  Remember, the Yankee system is loaded.  The number 9 prospect in their system may be ranked much higher on another team.

Early Grade:  B

STLRFANRC wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:22 PM

larouche sucks couldnt they just squeeze him in this deal?

BattlinBucs wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:23 PM

That record means nothing.  We go out and spend money on starting pitching for a .500 record.  Ridiculous.  I'd rather get a foundation to build a contending team than chase some stupid record no one will remember outside of Pittsburgh in 5 years.

JohnnyCangelosi wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:24 PM

I too would have thought Nady and Marter together would have netted a little more, but I have to admit that getting three pitchers that all average nearly a strikeout an inning is intriguing.  The bottom line is that our starting pitching throughout the organization is pretty awful, and this trade is hopefully the first step in addressing that.  And the reality is that you can never have enough elite outfield prospects either.

steve.z wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:24 PM

Trade grade: D-

I agree with those who claim this was a Littlefield deal:

The best player the Pirates get back: Injured.

They also get three pitchers with modest pedigree.

Coonington wasted trade assets in this deal.

UtesFan89 wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:25 PM

I guess we'll have to trust that NH took the best possible deal by dealing both X-Man & Marte together instead of dealing them in separate deals, and that this was the best offer for the 2.

I would've liked a bit more for them, but we're probably overvaluing X-Man (having a career season). At least we're working on the minors. An OF of Tabata, McCutchen & McLouth in a couple of years looks nice though... at least right now.

STLRFANRC wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:25 PM

For the last 15 years, the PBC has been NOTHING BUT a minor league ball club.  For all the other teams that actually want to contend and do something in this game.  Its really pothetic. now of course this trade could turn into a john smoltz-doyle alexander type in the future, but why get a guy with a 6+era, i know thats the pirates average but cant we atleast get someone under 5?  another good outing for zach duke by the way

Tiiimmmmmmmmmyyyyyy wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:26 PM

Sorry, I said Cooke earlier but his name is Coke.  He, however, is not a power pitcher.  He is Zack Duke, at best.  The pitchers we received are not prospects.  They are roster fodder.  Tabata is more likely to be Chad "walk on water" Hermansen than he is to be an elite major leaguer.   And while both Nady and Marte may be lame-duck Pirates they would be lame-ducks after '09, not after this year.

kpleary wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:26 PM

Again...no offense matskralc, but lefty specialists are extremely valuable mid season.

Bay, Nady, LaRoche, Sanchez and Wilson all originate from lefty specialist deals.  (Rincon, Gonzalez, Sauerbeck, Christensen).

So...I mean...the lineage is there.  Hopefully one of these guys pans out.

ETC wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:29 PM

Wow.  This trade has Littlefield all over it.  Seems like a pretty poor job of negotiating here, when you're dealing two of the most valuable chips left and lots of suitors for them.  I am completely unimpressed.  

Olendorf is a 26 year-old potential Tyler Yates.  But still a question mark - he hasn't had consistent success at any level since 2006 (as a 23 year-old in AA).

Coke has had some success in his first attempt at AA, but he is 26 years old.  If he were a good prospect, he'd be in the majors by now, not pitching well in AA.  He aspires to be Ryan Vogelsong at this point.

Kontos has some upside.  Doing OK at AA as a 23 year-old, doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence.

Tabata is 19, so projecting is very hard based on statistics, but one would hope his disciplinary issues (behavior and conditioning) aren't a major concern.

All in all, 4 very large question marks.  Not at all what should be coming back for a Nady-Marte package.  These two should've netted out at least a blue chip prospect, even one at A-ball.  Not four of them, but at least one solid prospect.  I'm in a bad place right now...

STLRFANRC wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:30 PM

i really dont mind nady being traded, their offense can make up for him, i hope.  but what about the bullpen? i actually liked marte as the closer more than capps, even before cappy got hurt.  

AramisRamirez=HOF wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:33 PM

I understand that Nady may not turn out to be a full-blown superstar, but he's also not having only a fluke year.  He had a solid year last year and for the past three years (06-08), he's batting over .300 - I don't think he's really a mirage...rather, someone finally coming into his own.  Don't forget - he's not even 30 yet.

Look, I don't doubt that as Pirates fans, we may be overestimating their value a little bit.  But as far as I'm concerned, Nady and Marte have BOTH shown themselves to be the real deal.  I wouldn't hesitate to say that they'll both be solid performers in the majors for several years to come...Marte is 33, but his velocity is still there and he looks like he'll be around for at least a few years.

I know good, young pitching is harder to find - but with two guys so coveted, I just question if they could get a bit more.  I'd rather have gotten two, or even one, guy(s) with more of a reputation, than several throw-ins.  And yes, I consider Ohlendorf little more than a throw-in.  He's made 25 appearances this year and has an ERA of over 6.50.  That tells me that he's had more than just a few bad outings.

ATLMtneer wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:35 PM

I think a B is a very fair grade for this trade.   I do not believe you will see McCutchen up here until Septemeber, if at all.  The OF is Bay, McClouth, Michaels/Pearce/Doug M.

Closer is Yates/Grabow.

STLRFANRC wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:35 PM

Here's a question for everybody.  Why are the pirates brass so scared of Scott Boras?

Drunken Pirate wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:43 PM

I think it's too early to judge the return, but I'm surprised that Marte and Nady were BOTH traded for these players especially when there's almost a week before the trade deadline.

BattlinBucs wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:44 PM

I don't think they are scared of Boras.  Why spend a lot of money on Nady, when McCutchen is ready to come up?  Alvarez will get signed.  The front office knows if it doesn't get done PNC Park may be burned to the ground.

bill-landrum-4ever wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:48 PM

It is time for everyone to calm down. First off Nady was keeping right warm for Pearce and A-MAC. Second almost everyone here wanted to ditch Marte earlier this year, so chill.  Ro-Dorf pitch like 25 innings in the majors, 2 bad outings and there is your ERA of 6. Bottom line Tabata is 19. Remember A-Ram at 19. He sucked and everyone wanted him gone. If he starts to blossum you got trade bait for later on. Chill most of "yinz"  don't even go to the ball park anyway. Give Neil a chance.

AramisRamirez=HOF wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:55 PM

BillLandrum - Wow, have you even seen Ohlendorf's numbers?  He's had more than just '2 bad outings':

3.0 IP - 2 ER

3.1 IP - 2 ER

2.0 IP - 5 ER

.1 IP - 1 ER

.1 IP - 4 ER

2.1 IP - 4 ER

1.1 IP - 6 ER

And that doesn't even include several outings where he pitched an inning and gave up a run.  Those are eight TERRIBLE outings along with several bad ones...nearly half his 25.

Those numbers are downright horrible...

AramisRamirez=HOF wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 9:58 PM

And by the way, I attend about a dozen games a year and I'm all for giving "Neal a chance."  But let's call dog crap like it is.

BattlinBucs wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 10:03 PM

Ready to get rid of NH already Aramis? He's had a better draft than I've seen in years, and he's only had the team for a season.  Really should wait a few seasons before casting him aside.  Otherwise, we'd never have a GM last more than one season.  It's time for someone to come in here and shake things up and try to get the minors rolling.  Or would you rather he go out and sign a Gil Meche?

AramisRamirez=HOF wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 10:13 PM

Okay, so exactly when did I say I was ready to give up on NH??  I said EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.  Again, I'll repeat...I'm all for giving him a chance.  But this move appears to make no sense.  We needed pitching and the best player we got in return was an OF.

Look, if you want to support NH, I'm behind you.  The Pirates had a fantastic draft and to this point, he hasn't done anything to make me question his ability.  But I refuse to say that this was a 'good trade.'  With Tabata, it may turn out that way as he's really too young to tell.  But there's no way you can look at this move and say it was really a good deal.

I'd love for you to show me exactly where I said I'm giving up on Huntingdon.  

And I don't doubt that things need shaken up a bit, but the Pirates have had the most productive OF in MLB.  I agree that Nady needed to go - we probably weren't going to sign him after next year.  BUT WE NEEDED PITCHING.  Yes, three of the four guys we got are pitchers, but who out of that group can you point to and say that you'll definitely see him as being a part of the Pirates for years to come?  Again, I'll repeat:

1. One guy is a reliever with a terrible MLB ERA

2. One guy has been a solid AA pitcher, but is 26

3. One guy is seen as nothing more than filler

I don't dispute that there is a chance this trade could pan out.  But when you have two of the most coveted players at the trading deadline, why make this move with plenty of time left?

I will be happy to support Neal, but I'm not going to applaud him for simply making trades to break up a bad team.  This move doesn't appear to reflect anything resembling a wise move by a GM.

Tiiimmmmmmmmmyyyyyy wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 10:14 PM

BattlinBucs:

That draft means nothing if the star players don't sign.

48jj wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 10:14 PM

On Baseball Tonight they're saying that the Yankees got a steal. All teams know the Pirates are push overs, the other 28 teams just weren't able to rape and plunder the Pirates like the Yankees just did.

AramisRamirez=HOF wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 10:15 PM

Oh, and by the way, Gil Meche's ERA since he was signed has been about 4.00.  THAT'S what the Pirates need right now - not middle relievers with ERAs over 6.50 who are projected to possibly start.

Not to be critical...

BattlinBucs wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 10:20 PM

I apologize Aramis for misinterpreting you, I just hate when some people assume NH is going to be awful just because Bonifay and Littlefield were.  

TGA wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 10:21 PM

"...Tabata is McCutchen 3 years ago.  Five tool player

with a big upside........Overall, not a bad trade.  This team needed pitching depth in a big way and this trade brought three arms with big league potential.  It also return a young hitting prospect with big potential.  Remember, the Yankee system is loaded.  The number 9 prospect in their system may be ranked much higher on another team."

None of this is true at all. The Yankees have a poor system and the Pirates didn't exactly raid it. Tabata is not comparable to McCutchen at any point in his development, and that's before the injury. The arms do not have any more big league potential than the filler currently occupying AA and AAA.

Also, can we stop saying that NH had a great draft? None of the national analysts agree. In understand the desperation of local fans and media, but when selecting the 2nd best player in the draft with the 2nd pick is a crowning achievement things have gotten really sad. Sadder than sitting here typing about the Pittsburgh Pirates on a Friday night.

D Sanchez wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 10:23 PM

Please NH, no more trades.  Matt Morris looked like a steal compared to this pile of dog crap.  

All of baseball is laughing at the Pirates (again).  Good luck making another trade this year.  

NH - Get ready to hear a lot of these types of calls.  "Hey Neal, I'll offer Jeff Keppinger for Bay, Doumit, and McCutchen.  But only if you act right NOW."

LeeFoo wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 10:23 PM

Here is the Yankee side of the trade. They seem to think Coke has developed a good curve. It sounds a bit more promising.

yankees.scout.com/.../772400.html

However, I a)was cringing when I heard they liked Olmendorf and b) Hate the Yankees, so I hate that Marte and X-Man are going there.

Oh well....

Just watched the Curve lose to Harrisburg. Corley didn't have a good night.

Nuttingstaxes wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 10:26 PM

This isn't a Littlefield trade?

Uh, yes it is.  A salary dump, pure and simple.  Nothing more, nothing less.  A horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE deal!

What's more, Huntington LIED to us!  He said he wouldn't trade anyone unless the deal was right, then he trades X and Marte for a bunch of stiffs!  Maybe he got some pressure from the guy holding the purse strings?  Ya think?

Let's start with Tabata.  5'-11", 160 lb, don't expect much power from that, and you don't get much.  .310 slugging is anemic.  Even if he is EVER able to perform the way he did before the surgery, unless he adds a LOT of muscle, he'll never hit 15 HR in the majors let alone the 25 you hope for from a RF.  

Now Ohlendorf.  Good arm, so they say.  But his ERA, including last year is 6.10.  That would look good next to some of the guys we've been running out there, but not on any REAL team.  At 26, he's not out of time yet, but he needs to get it together soon.

Kontos.  Best prospect of the bunch, only 20, good arm, strikes out a lot more batters than he walks, but ERA is not impressive in AA at 3.77, and it's trending up (4.27 last 10 starts).

Coke.  Joke.  26 and still in AA.  Yeah, he's excelling in AA right now, so he'll maybe be a good AAA pitcher someday, but the clock is running out on his chances of ever making the majors, let alone excelling there.  But these are the Pirates, so he'll probably get a start or two this September.

And that's it.  Not a really strong prospect among them.  For an All-Star caliber outfielder (when healthy) and a fine lefty reliever, both of whom were signed through next year.  Marte would have brought 2 end-of-first-round picks (though, for the commenter who  enthused about this year's draft, it's questionable whether they'll sign ANY of their top three this year).  And this trade is made with almost a week left before the non-waiver deadline.

Surely they could have held out for ONE real prospect for these TWO quality players, one of whom (Nady) is not even 30?

Trebro wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 10:32 PM

We traded our two best trading chips for "filler" because this team lacks depth?  What in the world is this man thinking?  Maybe there wasn't enough interest now, but what about in August?  Or the off-season?

This was a SALARY DUMP.  Period.  Because that's all this team know how to do.  Count me out, I'm going to use my money to get in line for tickets to a team that cares about winning.  Let's see what that profit margin looks like when they're not even drawing 10K on the weekends.

BTW:  25K paid on a beautiful Friday night with no Steelers and no Penguins.  That's over 10,000 under capacity.  How long is it going to take for them to get it?

Drunken Pirate wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 10:37 PM

I suppose after 15 years of losing and perhaps the worst GM in baseball history, this kind of cynicism is to be expected...

PBCRevolution wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 10:42 PM

How do you think this is a salary dump? Ramirez for a bunch of major leaguers on their way out- salary dump. Nady and Marte for four minor leaguers, with at least some potential? Not a salary dump.

Whether you like the trade or not, at least understand what it was about- getting some better people in the minors (which wouldn't take much). If the team wanted to dump salary, Jack Wilson would've been been gone awhile ago. You don't have to dump salary if it's two players already on their way out.

Think things through before you make bold declarations.

Sure, it wasn't what we were all hoping for. But most trades are that way. People were upset when O. Perez got traded for Nady (that turned out pretty nice). People were upset when Giles got traded for Perez and Bay (who was a nobody).

You can't evaluate a trade in an hour.

Trebro wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 10:48 PM

I can call at 26 year old in AA a failure.  I can call another on the minor league DL with a serious injury a failure.  I can call a salary dump a salary dump.

You do not trade a league leader in batting average for players with "some potential" unless you are dumping salary.  Are you going to claim these players are going to cost more in 2008 and 2009 than Marte and Nady?

There is no possible way to spin this into a good trade.  No way at all.  The Pirates got hosed.  Again.  Same old same old.

Mick Kraut wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 10:49 PM

Salary dump?  What salary was being dumped?

Hard to know where to start with the junk being typed out here tonight...

Nuttingstsxes - I have a hard time taking your "analysis" seriously when you make statements like:  "(though, for the commenter who  enthused about this year's draft, it's questionable whether they'll sign ANY of their top three this year). "

3rd rounder - Jordy Mercer, signed quickly and playing in State College.  

2nd rounder - Tanner Scheppers.  He is either in PGH now or will be soon for medical exams and to pitch off a mound for the front office...Pending the medicals, the team will make a decision on signing him...

If anyone seriously thought that Boras would allow Alvarez to sign sooner than the last 5 minutes before the August 15th deadline...

Tabata and Kontos ARE real prospects...NH got 4 players for a middle reliever and a RF who is playing over his head.

To call this a salary dump is ignorance pure and simple.  

Trebro, you will not be missed...c-ya bye...

Stop beclowning yourselves...Try and resist the urge to rage against every move this team makes...NH is not DL...

AramisRamirez=HOF wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 10:57 PM

Not a problem, Battlin -

I definitely am on Huntingdon's bandwagon (although it seems like a lot of people are jumping off tonight).  I think he's done a solid job thus far and I can't point to one terrible move he's made.  But this trade just doesn't make sense - it seemed like we were going to go after some prospects that were a bit closer to the majors.  If by older they meant closer to the majors, then mission accomplished.  But the best guy we seem to have gotten is a guy about 2 years away.

This is far from the worst trade I've seen - I just think we could have waited a little longer to see what else might have been out there...although none of us really know what was on the table.

AramisRamirez=HOF wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 10:57 PM

Not a problem, Battlin -

I definitely am on Huntingdon's bandwagon (although it seems like a lot of people are jumping off tonight).  I think he's done a solid job thus far and I can't point to one terrible move he's made.  But this trade just doesn't make sense - it seemed like we were going to go after some prospects that were a bit closer to the majors.  If by older they meant closer to the majors, then mission accomplished.  But the best guy we seem to have gotten is a guy about 2 years away.

This is far from the worst trade I've seen - I just think we could have waited a little longer to see what else might have been out there...although none of us really know what was on the table.

Joseph wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Fri, Jul 25 2008 11:09 PM

Let's all get together three years from tonight and reassess the deal, ok?

CullenH wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Sat, Jul 26 2008 12:07 AM

Cripes,

It took CC Sabathia to get ONE top-line prospect from Milwaukee...  dont think Nady or Marte are quite in that category...

Dont bust NH on this... he said he was getting pitching depth, and he did... may not have been the greatest prospects around, but did you really expect that? Remember, the Bucs have NOTHING in the farm system.

Further, no one on this blog has any idea what other offers were out there. Sure, maybe better offers would have come... but maybe not. There is no reason not to trust NH thus far.

And whoever made the comment earlier about Scott Boras waiting til 1130 on augut 15 to have Alvarez sign- good call...

Do not think that Alvarez will not be signed- he will.

Seriously, we will better be able to judge this trade in three years...

KY Bucs Fan wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Sat, Jul 26 2008 1:41 AM

I don't think this a bad deal at all. Would I like to see better prospects, of course. Let's face it, Nady was going to walk anyway in a year and no middle reliever is worth $6 mil/year. We needed depth and we got it. Nady had a great average, but after tonight would have been fourth on our team in homeruns, with Doumitt and Bautista on his heels. Draft picks are much more unproven than these pitchers. They all have had success in the minors, and in our system, will all probably be in Pittsburgh next year. Waiting an extra week could have netted a better return, or could have brought nothing, and then you guys would really be angry because NH sat on his hands. No doubt about it, it's hard to be a Pirates fan.

Daquido Bazzini wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Sat, Jul 26 2008 12:11 PM

Friday night...and all remains the same with the Pittsburgh Pirates.

More base-running blunders, as they run themselves out of the game with SD on a rare 6-5-4 DP.

The SD announcers are astounded that Freddie Sanchez is called out at home plate, but John Russell keeps his place in the dugout. There will be no argument.

And then....Nady & Marte shipped to the Yankees for four prospects(?).

Let's be frank....Four bums.

Business as usual on a summer weekend for the Nuttings & crew.

BleedBlackAndGold wrote re: Nady, Marte to Yankees for prospects
on Mon, Jul 28 2008 2:33 PM

Wow.. Rough crowd.